But on the eve of the tournament, an attack came from the long-dormant Siberian omnium, and her village was thrust into war once again. Aleksandra immediately withdrew from the competition and rushed home to enlist in the local defense forces, sacrificing the life of fame and fortune she might have had.```#lore-discussion
iron plume
gritty osprey
Wats zens backstory
limpid agate
frosty shell
Summer Games is probably just their legally-distinct version of the Olympics
feral lintel
well, clearly
dense estuary
Yep just like the plasma blade in Halo is their “absolutely not a legal department safe light Sabre”
Are the summer games canon or just a fun player event thing?
frosty shell
idk they have been mentioned in canon
Mei wears a Summer Games shirt in Rise and Shine
And Zarya mentions the Summer Games in Searching
timid eagle
Also, Zarya's Champion/Weightlifter skins are basically her origin skins.
long ermine
The fact they exist are canon
We don’t know anything about what’s actually in them though, other than Zaryas weightlifting
feral lintel
almost every hero has an origin skin or two now
civic pendant
soldier 24
feral lintel
i think the only ones who lack them are junkrat, roadhog and zenyatta
civic pendant
reaper's origins skin
limpid agate
@feral lintel Define Origin Skin
feral lintel
a skin related to a character's past, i guess?
limpid agate
Does it have to be canon?
feral lintel
you mean like... fan made skins?
deep jay
Hi
limpid agate
D.Va, Roadhog, Winston, Junkrat, Sombra, Brigitte, Lucio, and Zenyatta are all lacking "origin" skins, the way I see it
feral lintel
right. i don't have a list of skins open, so i knew i missed some
though, if we're counting "non-canon" skins, then there's specimen 28 for winston and los muertos for sombra
cedar moon
Brigitte’s Mechanic and ironclad skin tho?
peak escarp
Brigitte's Engineer skin should count
cedar moon
Why?
peak escarp
or whatever the red one is
she's wearing it in her origin trailer while she's training with Reinhardt
its from before she got her suit of armor, so I count it
cedar moon
Oh I saw it say doesn’t sorry
peak escarp
she's probably not going to get anything else for an origin skin, because of her age
peak escarp
I'd like to see DVa get a military uniform, with Tokki as a prototype/before it was customized for her
cedar moon
^^^
peak escarp
Lucio as the leader of the rebellion would be nice (even though we don't know what that looked like)
or ALF Roadhog
Winston would be hard to give a proper origin/younger skin for because it would alter his size/silhouette
I just use Horizon, since that's what he looks like he's wearing in WB's origin trailer when he's leaving the moon
for Junkrat . . . before he lost his arm? they couldn't do a skin with both his legs because that would need new animations
feral lintel
a proper origin skin for wrecking ball would also change his silhouette too much, since one of his sprays shows that he used to be the size of a normal hamster
peak escarp
his Junker skin works well enough as an origin skin
peak escarp
its seen in his origin trailer, and it explains his origins
feral lintel
i suppose
peak escarp
"origin" doesn't necessarily mean "young"
delicate iris
Hello! I'm kinda new here, but I came here with a question. One that requires the knowledge of fans that are familiar with the source material.
lore debate to help settle an argument?
delicate iris
Cool, gimme a sec to get the info all together, it'll take maybe three minutes? Yeah. Three minutes.
lyric kiln
whats the one person's name that we don't know from the lore
limpid agate
Queen of Junkertown
lyric kiln
i was thinking about liao, but there are a lot of ppl i guess 😃
i just searched it up
limpid agate
Liao's name is all we know
delicate iris
Okay, so here's the argument.
long ermine
wall incoming
delicate iris
I have a friend with this crazy belief that Angel Ziegler (Mercy) during the several wars that Overwatch endured, Died. As in, she passed on., and was then brought back to life as an ethereal being (An Angel). He had no evidence beyond a silly emote, and the halo above Mercy's head that is SOO clearly cosmetic, yet he just denies that last bit. I scrounged through EVERYTHING I could find on mercy. Lore, voicelines, character interactions. And absolutely nowhere has anything ever hinted at Mercy dying at any point or time. So, I have to ask. Did Mercy ever die during the Omnic wars?
BTW, this is the emote that is his proof.
long ermine
it was a big theory early on
but nothing more than a theory
no concrete evidence beyond some cosmetics and weird voice lines
limpid agate
Mercy is not dead
That emote is not literal
Mercy was a child during the Omnic Crisis
It was ~30 years ago, and she is only 37
peak escarp
dead people don't come back to life
limpid agate
So Mercy has never died, has nothing to do with dying, and cannot bring people back to life
Her parents died
Thats it
Mercy is not dead
Your friend is simply crazy
long ermine
Wasn't she older oringinally? I remember something about them changing her age
I know whats canon now is canon, but I feel like I remember that o:
delicate iris
Apparently her Valkyrie suit halts her aging?
limpid agate
No
It doesnt
She ages normally
The Valkyrie suit is literally just armor with wings
delicate iris
Well fuck.
long ermine
everyone in ow looks young except ana, who still looks young for her age
long ermine
ana is how everyone else should look
limpid agate
She has nothing to do with Reaper
She didnt make him
She didnt bring him back to life
She is 100% unrelated to Reaper being REaper
Another is, she didn't bring Genji back to life. Genji never died. She helped him when he was almost dead, but he was never slain
Resurrect is not canon as far as we know
peak escarp
she was actually younger in beta - her age was 32 until it was shown as 37 in Recall, and then the bio was updated to match
delicate iris
Thank you guys. It's nice knowing i'm not blind.
However, my friend is sitting next to me and is still denying everything you guys are claiming saying that it's bull and you're all "Just Fans" Do ya'll have anything you could show me to finally convince him?
long ermine
i mean. its hard to convince someone of something when its just common sense
there's nothing to counter it
limpid agate
@delicate iris The burden of proof is on he who makes the claim
long ermine
^
limpid agate
His proof is an emote that's a joke
My proof against it is literally everything to do with Mercy's character
peak escarp
what's his proof that she did die, aside from a non-canon emote?
and a halo that is part of her costume?
limpid agate
Have something from the lead author saying she ages normally
And here's the Visual Source book
Saying its just armor with wings
long ermine
Michael Chu is the story director for OW
end-all be-all of lore decisions
for your friend
peak escarp
and what's wrong with being "just fans"? what else does he expect - that we're all secretly the writing team for OW?
long ermine
jewvia may as well be
every time i try to answer a question jewvia is here 1s before i post
pepehands
peak escarp
my friends accuse me of knowing things before they happen, but I'm just good at predicting patterns
feral lintel
this all just boils down to overwatch's character designers having a habit of making everyone look younger than they really are
peak escarp
Mercy looks her age
white cobalt
Well is the cartoonish art too
long ermine
she really doesnt imo
white cobalt
i've meet people who looks way younger than their age tho
peak escarp
women in their late 30s don't have wrinkles and saggy skin
long ermine
i mean i live in a town of smokers and meth heads so 🤷 my viewpoint is skewed i suppose
peak escarp
particularly not a doctor who would take better care of herself than the average person
feral lintel
like, moira's 48 and she barely looks 25
peak escarp
Mora does not look 25
iron plume
moira most definitely does not look 25
peak escarp
look up Tilda Swinton, or Cate Blanchett
feral lintel
they have more wrinkles than her
peak escarp
they're both in Moira's age range, and look pretty much like her
Moira has faint wrinkles
they are faint because of the cartoon style, but they are there
iron plume
overwatch has a cartoonish design style that has an effect of making people look younger
worthy rose
Moira succs life, she can look as young as she pleases.
iron plume
if you keep that in mind the people do look their age
white cobalt
A IRL example: Compare William Shatner (Stark Trek) which have 87 yo with Robert Redford (82 yo) o Ian McKellen (79 yo) the dude looks way younger than the others guys
iron plume
but just from the looks they do seem younger
not improbably younger, but still so
like if I had to guess mercy's age from her design not knowing anything else I'd say it's early 30s
but it's not ridiculous for her to be 37
which is why any theory based solely on that is just weird to me
peak escarp
also there isn't one "look" for people of a certain age
people are unique, even fictional ones
feral lintel
idk, i guess it's just the art style that makes me think that
even reinhardt looks younger than he is to me
delicate iris
Sigh Do you ever argue with someone, and no matter what you say they always bring up the smallest details just to keep the argument alive? Now this cunt of a friend sitting next to me is just refusing to except that the emote is a joke. And that's his LAST piece of evidence. I just asked him for any extra evidence he has to save his ass and his response was "I'm not giving any evidence until they give me some." Which you guys have already done, but hey my bro's always been a cunt so, there ya go.
long ermine
why are you calling your friend a cunt if he's sitting next to you
and why are you still talking about it
and why is this cunt your friend
you dont seem to like them
peak escarp
he's got 1 piece of evidence pointing to Mercy being dead
we've got several that say she isn't, including one from the head writer of the game
your friend is just a dick
delicate iris
Because I hate when people I've been friends with for years accuse me of being an idiot over something that HE is wrong about.
And Doctor Six. Pleas esend me the evidence you have. He's sitting here claiming he hasn't been given any and i'm getting legit pissed at this guy right now
delicate iris
I would appreciate everything being reposted please? It would make saving it all much easier.
long ermine
Jewvia-HimeToday at 2:21 AM
Have something from the lead author saying she ages normally
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/180471683759472640/496129424157310987/unknown.png
https://i.imgur.com/1yUM7GA.jpg
And here's the Visual Source book
Saying its just armor with wings
delicate iris
Thank You! What about the death thing? He's still not letting go of that. Huff
peak escarp
death thing?
long ermine
Jewvia-HimeToday at 2:20 AM
His proof is an emote that's a joke
My proof against it is literally everything to do with Mercy's character
white cobalt
He means the crazy theory about mercy beign dead
peak escarp
How could she have died in the omnic crisis ~30 years ago if she was born 37 years ago and was a child until it ended?
delicate iris
I hate to ask this because it sounds fucking stupid so i'll quote it from his lips He has two requests.
peak escarp
in Torbjorn's letter to his wife, he mentions 14-year-old Angela visiting him in the hospital
delicate iris
1." How do they know the No Pulse emote is a joke?"
peak escarp
23 years ago
feral lintel
why are you friends with him?
delicate iris
2." Prove to me she never died and i'll accept it." God I felt filthy just writing that shit.
iron plume
the no pulse emote is a joke because it's the only thing suggesting she is dead
while there is significant lore content describing her life up to the point of the game's "present"
peak escarp
prove to us she has died, and we'll accept it
delicate iris
Okay, now he's doing his silent treatment thing where he refuses to accept he was wrong. Oh my god I can't believe I live with you Brian. Thanks, all of you guys have been a great help, now we can move onto things that are actually interesting.
limpid agate
@delicate iris "Prove to me she never died and i'll accept it"
Uprising
Her bio
Resurrect not being canon
Her looking 37 and aging normally rather than being a 10 year old
Knowing Torb as a kid
Literally growing up
Magic not being real
People not coming back to life being real
delicate iris
Oh, it's still over. But now I get to laugh my ass off.
Win-Win
@limpid agate-Hime Would you mind if I friended you?
limpid agate
Ok
delicate iris
Yay
Okay, I gotta go now, but ill be back in 5 hours or so because this shit was fun. See you guys later!
peak escarp
after that little adventure I did a search about the idea that Mercy is dead
apparently a lot of people thought that
iron plume
I wouldn't lie to you now would I
peak escarp
and every single one of them focused on that one emote
iron plume
and yes, an honestly embarassing number of people think that
iron plume
there's also a bunch of "valkyries aren't actually saviors but guides to the afterlife"
also something about caduceus being Mercury's staff who is a messenger and a guide
peak escarp
one that I read got hung up on the fact that Mercy's staff is the caduceus, NOT the rod of Asclepius
peak escarp
and several talk about Mei and Mercy discussing how they both appear to have not aged in 9 years
Mei because she was frozen
Mercy because she's a young woman who cares about her appearance SHE'S UNDEAD!!
so if I press my fingers to my wrist and then shrug, does that mean I'm undead?
subtle moss
It'd be good for a halloween event though
flint briar
(i only read up a little, to be fair. sorry if i just repeat) Mercy used her medical skill to slow her aging
flint briar
huh. odd
limpid agate
Not really, no
flint briar
coulda sworn something said she did. perhaps i read something unofficial by mistake.
peak escarp
it's one of the most common myths spread by the community
it's mostly based on misunderstanding a few in-game interactions, and people mistaking the cartoony art style for youthfulness
flint briar
not sure id call it cartoony, but i get what you're saying
subtle moss
Mercy looks early twenties
she's 37
like hell she ages normally
I mean it's within ordinary human variation
but she's definitely in the 'still looks very young' subset of people
peak escarp
Mercy looks her age
limpid agate
She looks the same age as everyone else in their 30s
subtle moss
Moira looks more believable as 50 than Mercy does as 40
subtle moss
Hasn't Widowmaker been surgically enhanced?
subtle moss
tht's... not how that works
but whatever, doesn't matter
Mercy doesn't look 40 by our standards at least, not without a lot of skillfully applied makeup and good lighting.
peak escarp
that's how it works in the OW universe
subtle moss
But art style means it's hard to do, and they want youthful looking characters anyway
Ana looks her age at least.
limpid agate
Mercy looks the same age as other girls in their 30s in game
limpid agate
Without looking it up, how old do you think Ana is in this picture?
subtle moss
limpid agate
She is at least 30
subtle moss
Maybe 24
subtle moss
I can believe early thirties
limpid agate
Then you can believe Mercy is 37
peak escarp
37 is not as old as you think
that picture I shared is Lucie Pohl, btw - the voice of Mercy
she's 35
subtle moss
I guess people don't age that harshly in real life either, but Mercy being 37 is pushing it very slightly. Moira at least probably dies her hair, or has modded herself.
peak escarp
red hair greys very slowly
subtle moss
With makeup and lighting yeah
peak escarp
my mom has red hair and at 57 she hardly has any grey hair
subtle moss
Anyway, it doesn't matter that much
I can suspend disbelief for something this minor
tender pine
This may have been talked about before, but id k if it has been. And im curious. What is known about zenyatta within the lore?
limpid agate
@tender pine https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/zenyatta/
tender pine
Oh, ty
runic scroll
Maybe Mercy just uses her medical knowledge to take excellent care of her body and skin, thus looking young without procedures or anything
peak escarp
my thoughts exactly
iron plume
ooooor it's the character design reducing signs of old age for people who are not deliberately set to be "old"
ie. the OG overwatch
regal coyote
Please take into account ow world have higher tech, meaning people looking younger with all the medical aids and beauty products and what not.
peak escarp
but she doesn't even look that much younger
regal coyote
think about nowadays rl. soemone having a normal life in a city year as a 30 year old, is drasticlly different when compared to a 30 year old living in some third/forth world country of a shithole raged by war and hardshops and accidents.
so yeah art stye is part of it, and the other part is that they should look a bit younger relatively.
especially true with mercy with top notch medical knowledge at her fingerttips
dense estuary
that care is also probably far more accessible.
McCree has a pretty darn good replacement arm and unless he got that while with Blackwatch it means such things are probably very widely available. Sure the Deadlocks stole lots of money but I suspect medical care is just plain available in the OW setting.
regal coyote
ok, the baseline is junkrat.
he has shit for resources but his arm is pretty fine too by today's standard
so the norm is at least that
wind pond
Even his leg isn’t bad, though that is likely home made.
tawny patio
Well and that’s Junkertown...look at places like Korea, honestly Junkrat’s resources are p limited by comparison
feral lintel
do you think numbani is its own city-state? or is it supposed to be part of nigeria but it has its own flag because the devs couldn't get the rights to use the nigerian flag?
tawny patio
Related counter-question:
Can you have a Nigerian flag as your player icon
feral lintel
i don't know. can you?
iron plume
Numbani is a city state
iron plume
I'm pretty sure Nigeria doesn't have a flag icon, but none of the sites listing them are updated for third summer games
Orisa's origin is listed as "numbani" whereas doomfist's is Oyo, Nigeria
feral lintel
i see that numbani has its own player icon
iron plume
So it isn't part of nigeria
peak escarp
I think it's in Nigeria, but it governs itself (as a city state or whatever)
woven rock
Give zen animated short 
dense maple
i bet his robotic arm is what allows him to do deadeye
ionic socket
Pharah always dreamed of being stationed at gibralter
peak escarp
@dense maple but he aims with his flesh arm
the robot arm just allows him to fan the hammer faster than normal
dense maple
oof
limpid agate
He also used it in Train Hoppet
To get into the train from the roof
It has a strong grip
tranquil sun
what does Mercy have against Overwatch?
iron plume
it's a militaristic organization and she's a pacifist
old overwatch also used her tech against her desires
regal coyote
well mccree's metal claw is probably a good can opening tool, seeing it can easily rip into trains.
probably great for climbing and melee
feral lintel
he might even be able to detach it and use it as a makeshift club to beat enemies with
valid shell
Or store cylinders in it.
feral lintel
it would be funny if sombra could hack it and make him hit himself with it
cunning ledge
going by the skills she's shown, I guess that would be possible?
although I always thought the robot arm was just the forearm
regal coyote
well maybe if sombra being able to touch it then she might be able to disable it
but that is about it
peak escarp
what have we seen her hack so far?
mechs and omnics
mechs have onboard computers, omnics have computers for brains
a prosthetic doesn't have a computer, so it's not hackable
cedar moon
Is Orisa African?
iron plume
in that she is from africa, yes
feral lintel
in the same way that zenyatta is nepalese and bastion is swedish
pearl blade
Wait
Was Zenyatta assembled in Nepal?
Or did he just live there for x amount of time
valid shell
We don't know.
But since he likely found his identity in Nepal, he'd probably consider himself Nepalese.
iron plume
Zenyatta being what he is both physically and mentally, I doubt he'd attach himself to any nationality
peak escarp
probably
native kayak
peak escarp
no he's from Nigeria
lunar sonnet
no he's a defected Wakandan
peak escarp
no shitposting
limpid agate
@lunar sonnet Shitposting will result in a loss of access
valid shell
@lunar sonnet XD
subtle moss
we lack Zen lore
uncut dew
I swear he is, hes got a storyw ith him being crazy about his monk stuff
limpid agate
... What?
uncut dew
i thought it was in the widow traileR???
i swear ive seen one with him
and hes all culty
limpid agate
Its a different Monk. If you read Zen's bio you can learn more
uncut dew
okokok
limpid agate
Zen specifically left because it was too "culty"
uncut dew
they gave her a 4x scope....can you blame her
limpid agate
Widowmaker knows who she is and remembers her past. She isn't given some kind of brainwash conditioning that's wearing off like people think.
She was kidnapped, and I suppose in a way she was brainwashed. But its not like Winter Soldier at all.
She is content with who she is
peak escarp
she was programmed into a sleeper agent
and they mentally conditioned her so she can't feel emotion
lunar sonnet
How the heck is she so darn loyal to talon tho?
even taking command from Doomfist and stuff
long ermine
I think there's some kind of disconnect between Amelie and Widowmaker, I don't get how shed wake up in the middle of the night, kill her husband, turn blue and go kill people for terrorists
the way that makes most sense to me is brainwashing
peak escarp
she was kidnapped by Talon, conditioned into a sleeper agent, then Overwatch rescued her
two weeks later, she killed Gerard and returned to Talon
long ermine
we dont know that for certain tho do we?
ohh
nvm
i got confused, i thought you meant after she killed gerard
peak escarp
then they completed her genetic conditioning, turning her blue
it's all in her bio
long ermine
oof.. i thought i read all of them, must have skimmed that one
or i knew it and forgot
peak escarp
we probably won't get to see the process of her becoming Widowmaker
because it definitely doesn't sound Rated T for Teen™
long ermine
yea
peak escarp
same with the Hanzo/Genji fight
they couldn't do it justice if they couldn't show blood
lunar sonnet
Imagine Hanzo's swordmanship
lean prawn
hanzo isn't as good as genji
he was probably better during their first duel
not anymore tho
peak escarp
Hanzo gave up the sword after their fight
lean prawn
genji is now the canonically better duelist
valid shell
Yes, when his opposition is using a bow.
limpid agate
Genji is a better duelist than bow Hanzo
valid shell
Indoors.
limpid agate
Sword Hanzo defeated Genji the first time
valid shell
Genji might be a better swordsman than Hanzo at this point. I'd buy it.
But at the moment, sword vs. sword? Hanzo: 1, Genji: 0.
Probably more than 1, actually. "Just as when we were boys."
limpid agate
There is a difference
valid shell
Conditioning is Pavlovian. Brainwashing is sci-fi.
limpid agate
You condition a dog to come to you when you say its name. You brainwash a dog inexplicably start eating mailmen
subtle moss
I'm pretty sure 'betraying own organization and killing husband' moves into brainwashing territory
limpid agate
She didnt betray her own organization though?
valid shell
You've seen some convincing fanart.
subtle moss
The 'killing husband' part is the more important one though.
peak escarp
and a famous ballerina
subtle moss
Assuming she actually liked him.
valid shell
Well, a civilian with a mansion on a lake.
subtle moss
How long did Talon have her for?
peak escarp
they seemed to be happy together
subtle moss
what sort of a time frame is 'eventually'
A few weeks? Months? Half a year? A year? Several years?
valid shell
"Talon decided to change its focus to his wife, Amélie. Talon operatives kidnapped her and subjected her to an intense program of neural reconditioning. They broke her will, suppressed her personality, and reprogrammed her as a sleeper agent. She was eventually found by Overwatch agents, apparently none the worse for wear, and returned to her normal life."
It's the time frame we were given.
subtle moss
A suppressed personality could re-emerge.
peak escarp
It happend some time in the 2 years between Retribution (the last time Gerard is seen alive) and Legacy (the first time Widowmaker is seen)
valid shell
So 22 months at the most.
peak escarp
my guess is it happened around the time of Uprising, since "Overwatch Official Murdered" can be seen on the screens in Jack's office
subtle moss
If they didn't have her for at least a year I find it extraordinarily difficult to believe they managed to do what they did via just 'conditioning', and that's already basically giving them some sci-fi boost to their capabilities.
peak escarp
subtle moss
Yeah, that seems pretty likely.
Either way, the question seemed to have been if Amelie could ever resurface
valid shell
And Gerard didn't seem distraught during Retribution, so I doubt Amelie was missing then.
subtle moss
and she could, though never as she was
since it says 'suppressed', not 'destroyed' or 'eradicated'
lunar sonnet
OW lowkey using adding omnic for the fact that they have no blood to shed I have a feeling
valid shell
lunar sonnet
rated T isnt it?
valid shell
It's possible.
subtle moss
Does she actually feel some amount of remorse?
lunar sonnet
lol
valid shell
That was the case until Retribution.
limpid agate
@subtle moss There is nothing to suggest she feels remorse. She knows Gerard was her husband and respects him, but she doesnt have 1 line of regret in game
lunar sonnet
i guess that's why nobody really use a real bullet in OW
subtle moss
Emotionless characters are almost impossible to portray properly because we have almost no comprehension of what it would actually mean to be entirely emotionless in the first place, but why is she visiting his grave with a rose?
peak escarp
she remembers him, and she remembers that she loved him, but she doesn't feel that love anymore
lunar sonnet
mostly just Pulse bullets
limpid agate
People do use real bullets in OW @lunar sonnet
subtle moss
That's completely pointless.
limpid agate
You see Soldier 76 blow someone up in another short
valid shell
limpid agate
Reaper straight up snaps a guys neck
valid shell
I don't understand your agenda here.
valid shell
Because the game has to be able to be run on Korean potatoes?
dense estuary
Pulse weapon could also mean caseless ammo fired by electronic ignition
valid shell
In game graphical limitations =/= lore.
lunar sonnet
Widow's bullet in game looks like irl Blank bullet
peak escarp
some ammo does appear on walls and such on high graphics settings
lunar sonnet
and her scope shots looks like vapor
subtle moss
I don't believe for a single moment she is actually emotionless because a lot of her voice lines indicate a clear emotional incition, and also because the writers could never do it 'properly' anyway (and we might not recognize it even if they did.)
She's probably just mostly muted.
peak escarp
but the game isn't canon, so it doesn't matter much
subtle moss
Regardless, if someone were to capture her for a similar period of time that Talon held her they could potentially 'unbreak' her to a certain extent.
lunar sonnet
hmmm they do have to add some kind of emotion to make her interesting, shes one of the main character adter all
unless you're something like Zen "I am being attacked" in a calm voice
dense estuary
The question is could she survive we have no clue if the work done that also makes her Blue is high upkeep
peak escarp
it seems to me like she is surrounding herself with familiar things that have emotional attachments to try and trigger her emotions - visiting Gerard's grave, moving into her family's estate, putting up her wedding picture all over the house
it's like she wants to feel, but can't
subtle moss
Ah, there we go, numbed.
And yes
paradoxically people who feel muted emotions can still feel strong emotions... somehow
dense estuary
I suspect the same science that lets her be alive despite slow enough heart rate to be blue also could have some extra goodies to numb emotion.
subtle moss
I remember hearing of someone who took a certain medicine that had a side-effect of numbing their emotions and they ended up hating it, screaming that they couldn't feel anything.
peak escarp
@dense estuary that is indicated by her bio
"She was given extensive training in the covert arts, and then her physiology was altered, drastically slowing her heart, which turned her skin cold and blue and numbed her ability to experience human emotion."
peak escarp
whoops wrong ping
limpid agate
No she does not
Reaper, Doomfist, and Moira are the only playable heroes with seats on the council
Also Sanjay and Max, but they arent playable
lunar sonnet
she probably cant really feel strongly about something to be plotting plans anyways
subtle moss
I find it extremely unlikely they will ever progress it in this direction
since it's a game
and by its nature
the lore must remain relatively static with no major upsets
limpid agate
Hero 29 probably wont progress much either
subtle moss
But if this were an ordinary story, the possibility of Amelie resurfacing would be very much real, if not expected and likely.
For instance, Widowmaker reverting Amelie would require her to be basically totally redone as far as voice lines are concerned
though I suppose since the games are non-cannon they could instead make it more of a 'snapshot in time thing' and have the lore do things at its own pace
If they decided to move in that direction they could even potentially include characters that are 'currently' dead
lunar sonnet
I want Amelie skin
of exactly how she was being all the kidnapping and stuff
her Talon skin doesnt really feel right
limpid agate
@lunar sonnet Reminder this is a sfw discord
wide gale
👀
lunar sonnet
which of these skin is more legit
Young hanzo or Young master?
for Genji I went with Sparrow for obvious reason, since Genji has a black hair
cant believe i used to think Genji has green hair
=.=
limpid agate
The Orange ones are the canon skins
peak escarp
he dyed his hair green
lunar sonnet
so he dyed it black
worthy rose
After his brother almost murdered him he dyed it black to match his edgy emo phase.
lunar sonnet
yeet
subtle moss
I think the edgy emo phase belonged to Sasuke on the left there
worthy rose
Brother see brother do.
lunar sonnet
so i'll get the orange skins i suppose
I tried to look and see if they have a skin of Sombra
of before she is who she is today
limpid agate
Sombra has no canon skins
lunar sonnet
none of them really match
they Blizzard need to do something about that
the*
Gah! there's so many Hero that still need original skin
twilit geode
Hmm so is Hammond junker skin cannon?
limpid agate
Yes
lunar sonnet
sadly yes
I was hoping it was Lunar or Horizon
but his wrecking ball back at Lunar colony before he escape
was smaller
and didnt have guns attached to it
lunar sonnet
hmmm
Talon probably isnt it
Sombra doesnt look like the type to be using other people's Tech
lunar sonnet
Los Muertos is debatable
well
if Talon had that kind of Tech they probably wouldnt be hiring Sombra would they?
wide gale
her talon skin flavour text says that she was using talon money for her own purposes
lunar sonnet
yeah ik
limpid agate
@wide gale Neither skin is canon as far as we know
Talon may be canon
But Los Muertos is not
wide gale
how come?
limpid agate
Because she isnt part of the Los Muertos
wide gale
oke
limpid agate
She has no tattoos
lunar sonnet
Talon is probably as close as they'll get
vapid orchid
gotta 'love' her Soccermom haircut.
vapid orchid
I honestly hope they don't add the rest of the meka squad as heroes. Everyone's flipping out over all the mekas but, ehh.
lunar sonnet
yeah
it probably wont happen
D.va's the best of them
there's no point adding those below her
we dont need more baby form to chase after wrecking their Mech
imagine a full team of it
that'd be annoying
lunar sonnet
they'll have to switch up the mech/character mechanic pretty well
like maybe one that their mech isnt all that special or strong
but when the mech is destroyed
they'll be able to hold their own alot better than D.va
in their baby form
or able to take parts of their mech before it being destroyed and use those parts to enchant their combat ability
valid shell
Blizzard isn't going to do another 2 form hero.
Definitely not.
They've gone on record saying how much of a nightmare D.Va is to balance.
So the only MEKA pilot we have any chance of getting is Overlord, because he looks distinct enough.
lunar sonnet
if they want to, they can work it out but i dont think they will
heck if they want to
valid shell
Otherwise the new MEKA pilot will die in their cockpit while D.Va ejects, which doesn't make sense.
lunar sonnet
they can even bring back one or two of Mei's dead co-worker
lunar sonnet
looks interesting enough
valid shell
That's like bringing back Gerard, or Harold.
It would completely invalidate her backstory.
lunar sonnet
but what if some of them arent?
rose escarp
what
limpid agate
They are dead
lunar sonnet
until Blizzard want them alive
valid shell
They're also all civilian scientists. Mei becoming a hero is something of significance.
It happening 1 or 2 more times cheapens that.
lunar sonnet
maybe
but my point is if the Blizzard wants to do it
they make it work
im not saying that they will
valid shell
Sure. If Blizzard wants to do anything, they can do it.
But talking about crackpot "what if" scenarios doesn't make for great lore conversation.
So let's stick to topics that actually have some credence.
lunar sonnet
wat
runic scroll
i'm saying "if they want to do it" can't justify any fan theory
"they" being Blizzard, of course
valid shell
I was trying to keep people from using my point as an excuse to make meme theories, but apparently I wasn't vague enough.
runic scroll
i feel like doomfist needs to be more significant
lunar sonnet
in term of power or influence?
limpid agate
Doomfist is very significant
runic scroll
he IS very significant plot-wise
I just feel like he's not presented as significantly
valid shell
Wuh.
limpid agate
He got a comic and an anime
runic scroll
like how the cinematic trailer made him appear as this almost legendary figure
limpid agate
And his comic was the biggest lore dump of the last year
lunar sonnet
he talks down to almost anyone in game
valid shell
The Cinematic Trailer is also severely outdated.
He wasn't intended to ever be playable, so they were allowed to make him into a legend.
They had to humanize him a little when he was released.
lunar sonnet
I wonder if in Lore wise hero has almost unlimited access to their ultimate
if so Doomfist bringing down the whole city must be terrifying
peak escarp
for those heroes whose ultimates are canon, probably
we've only seen Tactical Visor, Primal Rage, Pulse Bomb and Infrasight
limpid agate
Widowmaker has unlimited visor
valid shell
Nuke too.
valid shell
D.Va's Self Destruct was her jailbreaking her MEKA's reactor with outside help and her pistol.
limpid agate
Also Bastions can be in tank form indefinitely
valid shell
Hardly as seamless as it is in-game.
limpid agate
McCree's ult is literally just him focusing
peak escarp
Soldier's ult is like Widow's - it's just part of the gear they wear
peak escarp
Pulse Bomb can be thrown like a frisbee and shot out of the air
runic scroll
so Winston's glasses
at least the first pair he had is from Dr. Winston, right?
but in one of the shorts, Reaper breaks it
twice, if you count the cinematic trailer
peak escarp
we don't know if those are his actual glasses or if he just got ones that look like his
runic scroll
so do we just assume that he's just mad because someone broke his glasses, not because he has significant emotional attachment to the glasses ?
peak escarp
I'd get mad if someone stepped on my glasses, but probably more so if they had sentimental value
runic scroll
can he?
runic scroll
does he do that in a short/comic?
peak escarp
he activated it in the Doomfist animation when he saw Tracer get hurt
lunar sonnet
alot
peak escarp
but he does it against the Talon goons in Recall without an emotional trigger
limpid agate
How much control do you have over getting angry?
runic scroll
exactly
limpid agate
The glasses breaking is just symbolic
Because that pisses him off
It doesnt need to be exactly that
Just getting him furious will do it
runic scroll
i feel like getting that angry from regular glasses breaking could be kind of an anger issue though lol
lunar sonnet
the glasses is from your dead/lost dad
its the only thing from him that you still have
someone broke it
runic scroll
regular glasses
if we are to assume that his original glasses are somewhere safe or already broken
lunar sonnet
well that's not the case here
the one Reaper broke was Dr. Winston's original glasses
runic scroll
the cinematic trailer where reaper breaks winston's glasses again
i mean, yeah he's probably angry from other things before that too lol
some people on the channel often argue that it's not as canon as other shorts
or possibly not canon altogether
peak escarp
the events of the trailer are most likely still canon
peak escarp
but it was made before the character models were finalized, so they look wonky
and the display the boys watch shows Bastion and Lucio as members of Overwatch
runic scroll
the latter part kinda makes sense i guess
runic scroll
yeah i do feel like that's just oversight
but i guess you can't really be sure until there's a confirmation
peak escarp
other sources reference it
some of the pre-release articles
so until something says it isn't canon, I'll include it
limpid agate
Whats not canon is the details of the in universe "Overwatch" trailer
The short itself is canon
runic scroll
ah okay. it's been a while since I last saw it and thought it was kind of like a monologue thing
I kind of want to see another Helix personnel as a hero
but I wonder if all hero-worthy level Helix personnel would have basically the same kit as pharah
runic scroll
yeah i feel like they'd mostly be downgrades of pharah's suit with different weapons
another omnic hero could be nice
dense estuary
I would not be surprised if a standard Helix squad has someone with an RL, some with ARs and maybe someone with an LMG
runic scroll
I feel like an ex-member of the Shimada clan, but not a Shimada, could be marginally interesting
but not by much lol
could be cool as a supporting character in lore materials
probably not as significant as a playable
or someone from Deadlock
or Los Muertos
someone from a minor but appreciable group
dense estuary
the big challenge is coming up with unique mechanics so they do not just look like a reskin
worldly dagger
Zen needs lore, just putting this here
peak escarp
we know
runic scroll
i wonder if we'll actually see the moment where people gather after Winston's message and launch the new Overwatch
as a short or a comic, whatever it may be
like people arriving at Gibraltar
dense estuary
Overwatch 2.0 might not be functioning in a regular form right now, Since technically its not legal they may meet off the grid.
peak escarp
more likely they'll just be shown participating in a mission with Winston/Tracer, and it will be implied that they answered
we already got 3 heroes physically answering the call
runic scroll
I mean, it probably won't be an open party or anything, but at least have a few people at Gibraltar and have a little thing for themselves
an inspirational speech, whatever
show some struggles between ideals among even those who answered the call
valid shell
Helix Guard from Doomfist's prison who abandoned their post to hunt him down would be fun.
runic scroll
maybe
i wonder how you'd make him not be little Pharah or little S76 though
him, her, it
wait, can I call omnics it
xim/xer
them
peak escarp
Bastion is an it
runic scroll
or is xe?
ganymede is supposed to be male, right?
i think somebody said a bird of that color among that species is supposed to be male or something
peak escarp
male songbirds are more brightly coloured, yes
runic scroll
i think ganymede is also male in greek mythology
peak escarp
he was the cupbearer to Zeus
limpid agate
@runic scroll Zenyatta is a he. Orisa is a she. Lynx is a they. Bastion is an it.
Don't make up random pronouns. I dont think many people would care if something like Null Sector or the OR15s or even Lynx was just called it, but people would mind randomly hearing "xer"
dense estuary
makes sense for Bastion to be an It. as Bastion Units were basically mass produced killbots, I think Bastion the game characer having a personality was actually caused by systems damage.
runic scroll
i wonder to what degree omnics can fix themselves
do you think omnics have mechanics that are practically omnic doctors?
or would their AI already include everything needed for self maintenance
save for extremely intrusive procedures/physically impossible to self-administer procedures
do they just go to an omnium if something goes wrong?
cunning ledge
In Route 66 there are signs saying “genuine omnic parts”
peak escarp
so if they took this picture for Winston, that Halloween party happened between 13 and 6 years ago
subtle dawn
i don't think any of the photographs in recall are considered strictly canonical anymore
peak escarp
subtle dawn
quite a few have been retconned
peak escarp
you can see them taking the picture in the Halloween comic
there's no reason for this picture to be retconned
subtle dawn
i'm just saying proceed with skepticism
peak escarp
you don't need to tell me - I'm skeptical about everything
subtle dawn
great
peak escarp
I just like trying to figure out where things might fit on the timeline
worthy rose
I wonder what we'll get in the chateau version of junkenstein
perhaps something like the new archives event
peak escarp
Jeff said they weren't doing anything new
so it's probably just a makeover for Chateau like Black Forest got for Winter last year
peak escarp
most likely
timid eagle
I’m fine with that, to be honest.
regal coyote
whatever, at least they would ahve some different map decorated and ned skins and voice lines and such. And MOST IMPORTANT of all, a junkenstein comic, even if it is just a one page
cedar moon
Where is Gibraltar located
feral lintel
neon dirge
south of spain
long ermine
There’s an omnic shop in Anubis as well
limpid agate
Oasis also developed omnic parts.
You can straight up replace your legs
But I imagine it's not too unlike getting any other repairs.
long ermine
Only thing I think I haven’t seen is omnic heads
Outside of fashion signs on numbani
feral lintel
omnic CPUs seem to be mostly stored in their heads, so i imagine replacing them would be a more involved process than other parts of their bodies
limpid agate
They can probably replace their exterior though
New head parts like the face and back
Not the interior
regal coyote
actually sorta
think about it, except for the "vitals" the rest of the omnic should be easily replacable
exterior shell should be like simple model parts and are customized at best, most likely a mass produced version for shit grade omnic in proverty.
Same would be said about parts like limbs? might be more expensive to replace but replaceable for sure (or it would be a dumb design)
I would say even things like power system would be replaceblae, under more complex oepration, there is no reason to be othereise.
so the truly irreplaceable system would be the memory/operatin unit.
that would mean tracking omnic by looks is quite useless to say the least
feral lintel
the same could be said for humans, if plastic surgery is cheap in the overwatch universe
regal coyote
but plastic surgery can only go that far, not adding half a feet of height on you
at least not easily
but yes plastic surgery would be super affordable, and everyone can be like D.Va if you want.
iron plume
not until Moira's Project™ is complete
dense estuary
CPU is a maybe depending on how Overwatch lore handles processor and personality of an AI
If its quantum computing, the uncertainty principle could come into play like in Mass Effect where you cannot just dump an AI to a new box. That said if in OW the Omnic is their program they could in theory be loaded into a new body no problem.
peak escarp
we haven't seen any evidence of omnics being able to load their consciousness into another body
so it's safe to assume they only get one
dense estuary
we do know they can be overridden, As seen in the Pharah comic. But that clearly goes deeper than just remote ops of their body since the Omnic we saw in the comic fighting it blew his own E-Brains out so he could not be turned against the Helix team by Anubis
tranquil sun
Moira is such a cool character
valid shell
Ye.
runic scroll
i kind of want to see an omnic on a mech now
not just a giant omnic
but an omnic piloting a mech
(that's piloting an even bigger mech)
regal coyote
maybe just give snowball a mech to pilot then
you put a snowball in the head part of a giant mech body.
then the ultimate can be puttin the said body as the head of a even bigger body
just keep building bigger.
Also it kinda make sense for some omnic to have a system like that, sort of like an escape pod inc ase the body is getting damaged
nova elbow
that actually sounds really cool
I wonder what the extent of Snowball's abilities are
is it sentient?
young raptor
I think we got confirmation that snowball isn't an omnic
regal coyote
like a smart dog
iron plume
he's not an omnic
nova elbow
oh that's good to know
feral lintel
i wonder at what point a robot is intelligent enough to be an omnic
because bastion and snowball seem to have similar levels of intelligence
tepid abyss
Sentience probably
cunning ledge
that's not how you define an omnic
an omnic is a robot built in an omnium
it's literally a brand name
not a classification of intelligence
tepid abyss
Our bastion seems to know what his actions will do, as he chooses to not kill when he can, whereas a normal bastion is not sentient as the are programmed to react in certain ways to certain things
feral lintel
idk, i feel like the devs are starting to use intelligence as something that determines whether a robot is an omnic or not
they felt the need to clarify that wrecking ball isn't an omnic even though it clearly wasn't built in an omnium
i think it was more in reference to whether it's artificially intelligent enough to be an omnic or not
feral lintel
i know, but what i'm saying is that they clarified it isn't an omnic as if it's too vague to tell
peak escarp
they clarified that it isn't an omnic because Junkertown is very anti-omnic
if they didn't clarify, people would be asking why an omnic could become champion of Junkertown
dapper whale
Well, considering Hammond built it, we can see him working on it in his reveal, I highly doubt it is an omnic. More like modifications on the ball he arrived in junkertown on
cunning ledge
why are you doubting it's an omnic
it's explicitly not one?
no more research required
dapper whale
Alright, I guess
nova elbow
I thought they said that omnics don't have to come from omniums but they do have to be sentient
cunning ledge
I'm pretty sure they said the literal exact opposite of that
limpid agate
Omnic is a brand, but people sometimes use it in a form of colloquialism
frosty shell
I imagine that an Omnic could just hook itself up to a mech
flint briar
I believe Jeff himself said that Wrecking Ball is not an Omnic.
frosty shell
They still haven't adequately explained what the Junkers think Wrecking Ball is
feral lintel
they probably think he's a mech with a human inside
frosty shell
But that'd be a pretty small human
Perhaps they use some sort of EMP-type thing to determine whether a device counts as a mech?
But yeah, thinking he's a human seems the most likely possibility
feral lintel
you might be putting too much thought into this
frosty shell
Bruce might've introduced him as "a little friend" or something
feral lintel
hammond is quite literally tacked on to winston's backstory
my guess is that they'll retcon some things in the future to make him fit better
peak escarp
he fits fine as is
limpid agate
Hammond fits for who he is
People requested a meaningless small harmless animal
So they got him
frosty flower
guys
i found something groundbreaking
what
if
tracer
is gay
Reason 1
She gay
Reason 2
She kis gorl
peak escarp
and?
frosty flower
that shit gay
peak escarp
too bad
runic scroll
wait, do the Junkers not know that Wrecking Ball is piloted by a hamster?
peak escarp
nope
runic scroll
i see
i guess hammond doesn't have to be exposed like he is in-game
while the mech walks around
either that or he never walked around in junkertown lol
inb4 gaemplay != lore
peak escarp
he isn't normally exposed like he is in the game
but I suppose they wanted to give us a headshot target
tawny patio
Now let's acknowledge the types of people in Junkertown shall we?
They produce the likes of Junkrat and pig
but a gerbil from space was capable of creating the best mech?
I mean Junkrat and Roadhog went on an international crime spree...
but no one...stole..a better mech....than sky gerbil?
peak escarp
Junkrat and Roadhog aren't mech battlers
Hammond was also genetically enhanced, so he's probably smarter than most of the people in Junkertown
limpid agate
@frosty flower Shitposting will result in a loss of access
@tawny patio Hammond is a genius. Junkers grew up in a radiated wasteland
Junkrat makes bombs out of garbage
He's smart, but Hammond made a talking human/hamster translator AI
tawny patio
Fair enough, but my point is that if they are capable of these crime sprees
has no one succeeded in stealing one?
peak escarp
I don't imagine many places have mechs just laying around
peak escarp
the only other place we've seen them is in South Korea, where they're military equipment
limpid agate
It's also probably not hard to beat aJunker mech
Kelvin 506 and Bludger have exposed pilots
Wrecking Ball had an arnored core, surrounded by more armor
peak escarp
they're all cobbled together out of scrap
subtle moss
Hammond's small size makes him the best possible mech pilot for any mech.
He'd be a far better option for one of D.Vas, if it was built for him.
More space dedicated to armor or ordinance rather than room for a human pilot.
uncut dew
did you all hear about that like dark dva concept? i think it was a new character but i forget hew name
feral lintel
@uncut dew https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/D.Mon her?
feral lintel
never say never 🤷
dapper whale
Oh yeah, the fandoms sucks, they ship D.mon and D.va for no fucking logical reason
Ignore link
cunning sand
Why would dmon be in the game it would be dva with slightly different sbbilities
dense maple
@cunning sand dps version of dva maybe
d.mon's meka is considered to be the "bear" in relation to dva's mascot
so maybe a much more attack-oriented type
white cobalt
The bets for blizzcon reveal is still JunkerQueen?
peak escarp
that seems the most likely at this point
peak escarp
Jewvia had a good idea for it - her mech could be her ult
be a literal transformation ult like Winston's
white cobalt
I see her more like a meele tank or dps
subtle moss
Add one melee DPS to round out the trifects and never add melee again
Doomfist is a caster
peak escarp
caster?
limpid agate
Or Zarya
subtle moss
ability/cooldown reliant
white cobalt
But anyways, this is lore, JQ have already a year since reveal right?
limpid agate
@white cobalt Year since introduction, yes
Same time frame as Ana/Sombra/Hammond
Not that it means much, there is no consistent pattern to be found there
But heroes being added 1 year after their introduction isnt unheard of
limpid agate
Queen is the only one I see having realistic odds for 29
white cobalt
Yeah, we know how she looks, what weapon uses, voice, and a bit of lore