we still saw her squad - their names, their faces, their mechs
#lore-discussion
dire timber
valid shell
Seriously, the threat to SK being one huge Omnic was the most interesting part of D.Va's situation, and ofc we just got some one-and-done squid looking jobbers.
Gee thnx
dire timber
valid shell
I said barely.
dire timber
and we still saw her fight the Kishin
rain arrow
Remember that she's considered a big thing and she is so devoted to the mech in the animation that you don't get the vibe of a celebrity. She's very devoted to her job but that doesn't help her character...it makes her look bland overall. Compare her big hero moment to reinhardts. In reinhardts you felt more emotion because you actively saw Reinhardt in everything he could be.
obtuse star
i'd totally play a dva mech team game
dire timber
it did help her character
rain arrow
What is her character?
little ether
The guy in the Dva cinematic is a friend right?
dire timber
did you miss the short?
sand kraken
Yeah CBWrath
little ether
Ok ty đ
valid shell
This short could have been D.Va fighting and nuking the kaiju, not some mooks, and nothing would have changed except her plot actually progressing.
dire timber
at first, Blizzard asked that question themselves - is she a pro pilot, is she an icon, or is she a normal girl?
but then, they got their answer
rain arrow
She's a prob pilot apparently
dire timber
she's a girl who feels that everything rests on her shoulders
rain arrow
Er pro
dire timber
that she can't fail in any way, or else everything is lost
sand kraken
Exactly
rain arrow
Okay..... But that's not what actually happened...
The omnic attacked when her team was off duty.. And was still working and engaged. It makes her look diligent sure, but not normal.
She even started, 'we barely won last time' but she handled the problem so quickly by herself, the city probably never thought they were going to be attacked. It shows her being mechanically better than her team.
However...... This isn't anything that makes the character special. It was so...scripted in a way that made her seem like a role model but compare her to brig, and she didn't even compare
rain arrow
Dva said they barely won and the enemy is getting better and better
rain arrow
Then why did she say that line? We barely won and the enemy is getting better and better?
rain arrow
There would be no reason to say that if it would never be used
dire timber
uh, the Kishin omnic is a recurring threat
dire timber
dude
you're just confirming my earlier thesis
that the ones complaining are the ones who don't know shit about the lore
rain arrow
... This is about story telling, character design, this is about how you make a character feel stronger, alive, depth..
That's why Sombra, Reinhardt, even bastion are never argued, there was so much more in their animations that makes the story and the character feel more engaging and unique..
Are your saying that reinhardts animation is the same as this? Widowmakers? Bastion?
You can debate lore all you like, but this does very little to make dva fleshed out sadly....
rain arrow
Okay...... How
dire timber
like I said
it fleshed out her personality, her life, her background, her MEKA squad
rain arrow
Fleshed out means the character is brought to life with emotional or situational comparison
Again.. How
rain arrow
.... I'm asking you how
rain arrow
How did the animation flesh out dva
dire timber
I literally just said
learn to fucking read
and actually process things
instead of just being a child
rain arrow
.... You have yet to explain it.. You only tell me to watch the short again and look at what's around her
But nothing about her in general
dire timber
we did learn plenty about her
you just want to build up nonsensical "rhethorical" reasons for your dislike of it
don't bother
we get it
you're disappointed
due to your inability to pay attention to the details
rain arrow
Brig was fleshed out.... She saw the injuries that happened to rein, she didn't understand why her mentor kept pushing himself despite his age. She lacked the understanding...
So she went and did it herself. She built her own vanguard armor to assist her mentor. She needed to understanding reinhardts devotion to saving those and answering the call...
Widowmaker was fleshed out. She is a cold blooded assassin .. She was made in that way, a struggle with her past.. She was devoted to her mission and showed her ability and deadly wit to accomplish that task compared to completely overwhelming odds...
rain arrow
Explain fleshed out by those qualities with example and result, with an obstacle that reinforces their character
dire timber
she's part of the MEKA squad, tasked with defending Korea from the Kishin omnic, feeling that everything rests on her shoulders
I explain it over and over
rain arrow
.. Okay.. But that's her job...
rain arrow
.. Wow
cunning ledge
oof
rain arrow
You don't like how I don't like things so you have to insult me?
dire timber
I'm tired of trying to get things through your thick skull
rain arrow
Yeah but you couldn't even answer a single question...
dire timber
I did answer
rain arrow
.. You say her job is her character then
dire timber
we've been shown D.va's human side, we've seen how she interacts with others, we've the base she lives in, her squad, we've seen her struggle with the fear of failure
tepid abyss
Pretty basic story tbh
rain arrow
..... She was more devoted to the mech and her job than her friend.... The base isn't a character... The squad was on a still frame, and against a situation that her friend said she should wait for backup over and over again, she ended up being right and he needed to have more faith in her
Yeah.. That's really....good...
rain arrow
Are your saying thats not what happened
rain arrow
Again.. How
tepid abyss
I'd be more interested if she actually was interesting
dire timber
that we got plenty detail we never had before
rain arrow
@tepid abyss exactly..
rain arrow
... Again.. Where
twin pollen
I thought she was quite interesting
rain arrow
She was more devoted to the job than her friend, we barely even know what he does....
tepid abyss
I'm just hoping they only scratched the surface of her, otherwise I'd say the the omnic rowers on Rialto are just as interesting as her lmao
errant elm
Heâs a mechanic
dire timber
jesus fucking christ
errant elm
Heâs a friend
twin pollen
Even though she could be out celebrating with the city and whatever, she wanted to be ready for the next fight-she was very devoted to the job
errant elm
He cares about her
rain arrow
@errant elm but she did not work on the mech than him...
errant elm
But she did not work on the mech than him?
dire timber
what the hell are you talking about
sand kraken
Oh jesus what did I miss
rain arrow
Sorry XD autocorrect @errant elm
errant elm
At the end of the short we saw him working on a mech
tepid abyss
They could've fleshed out the story more basically
errant elm
Or some mechanical thing
rain arrow
No.. She was still doing it...he was looking at her os?
iron plume
how is "she is more devoted to the mech than her friend" an argument against her being developed?
like
rain arrow
@dire timber projection
dire timber
@rain arrow watch the fucking short again
iron plume
but it's there
and it shows a part of who she is
sand kraken
I think it did expanded though it would've been nice if it was longer and had more story
rain arrow
@iron plume it's not a matter of like... It's how it's done
iron plume
yes it is
errant elm
Sheâs more devoted to saving the town (which would mean also her friend) than talking to her friend
dire timber
and quit acting like your dislike of something is an objective failure on the story's part
it's not
sand kraken
@errant elm Yeah
rain arrow
@dire timber you still have to answer my question.. Using my examples, how is she fleshed out
dire timber
I did
tepid abyss
But it's just one facet of her character, that's all we really know of her, that's so boring. I wanted to see more about her, otherwise she is just a stereotype
iron plume
he's repeatedly answered your question
twin pollen
I liked when she realized she had to self destruct to save lives-it was kind of that moment where she realized this isnât a game anymore this is real
rain arrow
No he didn't..I gave examples
sand kraken
@tepid abyss Yeah I agree
errant elm
Stereotype?
iron plume
Slig
chill
sand kraken
But still
dire timber
sorry
olive karma
I'm surprised that OW is the only shooter I know that has little to no lore correlation with gameplay
dire timber
dealing with someone like this is pissing me off
"but how? but how? but how? but how? but how?"
it's like they're trying to be as dense as possible
rain arrow
Again.. Compare her animation to bastion..bastion being the easiest
tepid abyss
How is insulting helping?
rain arrow
How much do you know about bastion without a single word
tepid abyss
So do that properly
dire timber
and my answeres were followed with
"but how? but how? but how? but how? but how? but how? but how? but how? but how? but how?"
tepid abyss
Your answers are about as fleshed out as dva 
twin pollen
Basically all of d.vaâs moves are now canon right? I think we saw all of them, but please let me pull out my blaster inside mech nowđlol
olive karma
Will DVA get a new skin from her new mech?
sand kraken
Yup
olive karma
Ok
dire timber
@twin pollen self-destruct isn't really canon
sand kraken
It was shown at the end of the animation
dire timber
in the sense that it's not an actual procedure
more that she artificially made it happen
errant elm
How is her character expanded on? We saw that she wants to protect the city no matter what, sheâs even able to sacrifice herself for it. And that she thinks that she has to do everything alone, and that she canât make a mistake. However her friend is trying to learn her that sheâs not alone, she just needs to ask for a little bit of help.
olive karma
@twin pollen I tried. Don't go there
dire timber
in an emegency
twin pollen
I guess thatâs right, but still
sand kraken
@errant elm YEESS
olive karma
Really. Dont
dire timber
@errant elm expect some more "that's her job." "but how does it expand?" etc.
mellow olive
I feel like it took so long for this short to come out that people expected way more than what we got, so they can't really take the time to appreciate what we got.
errant elm
Nah I think Iâve made it clear now
dire timber
they don't argue in good faith
sand kraken
@mellow olive yeah I agree
errant elm
Iâm sorry boyos, but not everyone is going to join Overwatch suddenly
There are stories all over the world
twin pollen
@dire timber even though it was an emergency, she still did self-destruct, it might not be her normal âprotocolâ but it is something she can do if needed
dire timber
yea
olive karma
DVA is obv going to be investigated right or wrong. Just like Sully SullenBerger
dire timber
I guess
iron plume
it's canon that mechs can do that
dire timber
it is?
sand kraken
yea
iron plume
but what happens in game isn't
errant elm
And if you donât like that you can argue with blizzard and not with some guy trying to enjoy lore
rain arrow
@dire timber your answer.. About fleshed out dva... Is that she's part of a squad who we never hear or get their impressions of dva...look at reinhardts squad for example..
You only see them in a still shot so we get nothing but atmosphere, world building, not character... Same goes for the base..
Now her? She stayed to work on her mech.. She ate a chip and drank her own drink.. But they do nothing to show how involved she is with the cleb status... What if we saw her more in public? Saw that side of her? She looks happier just working on the mech. The same with the 'gamer' side... Something that's big in Korea.. Never shown..
So that's 2/3 of her defined character NOT EXPANDED
dire timber
like, it is canon that the core can be overloaded and explode
twin pollen
Do they have to officially stat that itâs canon? Or can it just be in something in lore like the shorts
dire timber
but, like, some people been trying to suggest D.va actually just launches them to explode
iron plume
At least it'll bury those "they get sent mechs from orbit" theories
as fun as that would be
rain arrow
I win! Wooooo
dire timber
your question was answered by @errant elm
errant elm
Dva doesnât go in public
iron plume
"But they do nothing to show how involved she is with the cleb status"
They do show it
iron plume
the answer is "she isn't"
errant elm
Dva doesnât want the fame etc
rain arrow
@iron plume fair point
sand kraken
^^^^^
olive karma
Ya stop. Weapons lore sucks. I've tried. They asked a mod to ban me
dire timber
@rain arrow you didn't win shit, being an obnoxious douche to the point people are sick of talking to you isn't "winning"
rain arrow
@dire timber I will!
errant elm
Why would they show her gamer side if that is not whatâs going on atm?
rain arrow
Sorry you don't like my detail. It's meant to create conversation
sand kraken
Everyone she loves
rain arrow
But I guess that was too much
errant elm
You are not having a conversation, you are asking questions and ignoring the answers
olive karma
FFS TAKE IT FROM ME WHO LITERALLY TRIED ARGUING THIS EARLIER. STOP
twin pollen
Also, sheâs very competitive, âI play to winâ not for the glory and fame, but to win
iron plume
we aren't arguing the same thing remotely
rain arrow
@errant elm no I did answer them.. He just for really mad when I did, it's up there
dire timber
you didn't acknowledge any of the answers
iron plume
slig pls
errant elm
No you asked question like âhow did it expens on it?!â And than you ignored his answer
I fk wrote a whole paragraph answering your question and you ignored it
Thatâs not a conversation
Thatâs what kids do
Thatâs what kids do when they think they are right but they just arenât
rain arrow
@sand kraken you know what I would have loved? I wanted to see her be a celebrity. Doing shoots commercials.. All those things, and then having her desperately try to retreat to the base. A city who appreciates her but doesn't see her as a human. I wanted to see her balance that stress and then when the city is attached to show that despite what the city sees her as, she's human.
olive karma
Just stop. I've tried this dude.
worthy rose
I take it you guys were disappointed too :/
olive karma
I said I was right about smtn
errant elm
BUT SHE DOESNâT LIKE THE SPOTLIGHT
olive karma
Hi leggo
rain arrow
@worthy rose no.. Lots if people here looked6 it..
@errant elm yes but you have to show it
worthy rose
for what
errant elm
No they donât have to show it
Blizzard does whatever they want they donât have to show anything
worthy rose
This short doesn't deserve to have been made.
dire timber
it does
errant elm
Wrong
worthy rose
There is nothing of substance that was gained from spending 8 minutes of my life watching D.Va ask for help.
rain arrow
@worthy rose they like it, I don't, we just had an argument on it and they are trying to villianize me for it
errant elm
It has shown thing like the other Mekaâs, a side of Dva we havenât seen earlier and a sudden Omnic attack which took the city by surprise
iron plume
how do you show someone not doing something
dire timber
@worthy rose it expands on D.va, shows her human side, shows us her real personality, show us where she lives and what she does, shows us the rest of the MEKA squad
iron plume
we've seen her not go into spotlight
worthy rose
Unless there is some lore that I missed i.e. with that casino dude
rain arrow
@worthy rose they omnic right
iron plume
no one is trying to villainize you
rain arrow
@iron plume you can say that but insults and saying I didn't do something when I did says otherwise
errant elm
They have shown a sudden omnic attack which people are ignoring for some reason
Dude you are ignoring answers on your questions
iron plume
that's
not the same thing
rain arrow
@errant elm there you go... Again
errant elm
Of course people are not going to like you
iron plume
you're staring this again, no one else
rain arrow
Your not going to like me because the dva short is no where near any of the other shorts when explaining a character?
worthy rose
her human side
not much of it. she thinks she couldve done better then asked for help
real personality
fights for whats right. blah
where she lives
in korea? man im glad we never wouldve figured that one out
what she does
pfffft i NEVER wouldve guessed
rest of meka squad
only true thing but 5 seconds on a screen to be X'd out isnt much
errant elm
How is that villainizing?
rain arrow
@worthy rose THANK YOU
dire timber
@rain arrow the problem isn't that you didn't like it, the problem is that you're claiming it expanded on nothing, which is simply not true
rain arrow
It expanded her world and her job
.
errant elm
Guys remember: we had nothing, now we have something
worthy rose
it expanded like fucking bubble gum when reinhardt expanded like the universe
reinhardt's short*
there is so much more to a character than being sad about 1 incident
rain arrow
But you could have had any of the other mech pilots there and it wouldn't have changed a thing @dire timber
worthy rose
i disagree with the other meka pilots thing
errant elm
We never even said that it was better or even to Reinhardtâs short
dire timber
I'll just start blocking the whiners
rain arrow
That's what I thought..
worthy rose
im comparing it to rein bc it was an average short imo
rain arrow
You don't like it. So you need to block.. Protect your opinion and you bubble, not with conversation, but insults and safe spaces
rain arrow
@worthy rose rein short had so much more...
dire timber
@rain arrow cry about it
worthy rose
im saying reins was average
rain arrow
@dire timber XP only your are throwing out insults
errant elm
You canât deny that the short expanded
worthy rose
@rain arrow no one wanted him on the podcast for a reason, ignord him
rain arrow
@worthy rose xD who?
worthy rose
im not saying it didnt expand im saying it expanded in a manner that doesnt really take 8 minutes
white cobalt
@dire timber I didn't listened pretty well (english is not my native language) but the short implies they're more Meka pilots? And only dva was the available during the fight?
errant elm
Yeah but this âgamemasterâ was saying: âHow did it expand?â And when we answered he ignored it
iron plume
okay can we stop shitfighting about shitfighting now
worthy rose
if they made an 8 minute short about lucio and how he was sad that he accidentally stole some kid's lollipop by accident and then returned if in the end id be pretty mad
spent 2 years with 0 lore and finally when he got a short its just that
rain arrow
@white cobalt the others were off duty getting rest and relaxation.. But dva stayed behind to work
iron plume
@white cobalt yes
the other four have their mechs damaged in previous fight and inoperational at the second attack
worthy rose
relatively 0 lore
dire timber
@white cobalt the others were injured in the fight against the colossal Kishin omnic
errant elm
But we didnât get 0 lore
worthy rose
bam thats all the lore you got out of the short^
errant elm
Weâve seen other mechs, weâve seen her friend(who likes her?), weâve seen another side, weâve seen that the omnic attacks are now suddenly
worthy rose
if theres stuff im missing, tell me
rain arrow
@worthy rose which is barely anything.. And The others were getting rnr dva was given the opinion as well but she decided to stay..
HOWEVER they did state that she can get back up so it's safe to say there are more pilots
iron plume
aside from character development, we also see the nuke origin story
and the way Meka is treated by the government/media
errant elm
Not every character is struggling with stress or whatever you want to happen
worthy rose
character development of "i should probably ask for help"
iron plume
<
twin pollen
I felt we learnt a lot. Human side-she feels she can always win, this time she realized she needed help. Personality-she plays to win, sheâll do anything to protect the city, even possibly die by jumping out of mech in the sky. Lives in Korea(obviously) in a mech shop-not some glamorous mansion, even though she probably could.
rain arrow
@iron plume okay.. What's her friend's name
worthy rose
ill give the mansion thing
iron plume
oh hey someone actually bothered again
let's see how you ignore them this time
who gives a shit about her friend
he's a side npc
rain arrow
@iron plume okay.. What's the other members of her squads name?
iron plume
d.mon, casino, king and overlord
worthy rose
they were in the short
iron plume
but that's still not relevant
worthy rose
i know i complained they were in there for like 3 seconds but they were still in there
rain arrow
@iron plume was that explained in the short?
errant elm
This conversation is pure bs, it all started because this âgamemasterâ was denying the fact that the short expanded on Dva. We never claimed that it expanded much, we just said that it did.
iron plume
yes?
twin pollen
I mean obviously there is more we could have been given in the short, but I felt we got a decent amount of info
iron plume
where else would we get it
rain arrow
@errant elm if your happy with what you got, by all means! Be happy! That's good! But I would like to have more of her... This didn't feel like it did her Justice, and that's a real shame
Brig got more than she did
errant elm
So you are going to go into this channel and deny that the short expanded on her?
worthy rose
compared to other shorts... its like barely anything. my complaint is it fell faaar short (pun not intended) of my expectations of a short for a character with laughably little content for 2 years. im not saying it did nothing but im just mad they had so much time to develop her story that they gave us this.
and if dva has no lore then choose another deep hero like genji/zen, lucio/sym, etc etc
rain arrow
...I didn't say that, the other person did..I said it expanded on her job and the world.. But not her.. Don't assume something that I didn't say @errant elm
worthy rose
(i understand deep is subjective)
errant elm
And I can see that, but to deny that the short didnât expand is going to far
worthy rose
well, has no lore to expand that much upon*
errant elm
You kept asking âhow does it expandâ while we answered it like 3 times
rain arrow
@errant elm again.. You are the one saying that. I did not..I explained myself and you are saying I am gulity of something I didn't do.. That's your problem
pearl portal
it expanded a lot of other things though
worthy rose
it expanded upon dva a little bit to be fair
rain arrow
I said it explained the world and her job but NOT THE CHARACTER that's the focus of my arguement @errant elm
worthy rose
her team died in the last mech fight and she wants to prepare for later fight while trying to take it on her own and finally accepting that she needs help. movie trope #45.
errant elm
But it did expand her character
Before the short: NERF THIS after the short: I protect the city at all costs, I canât make any mistakes etc
dire timber
people are incapable of analysis, or digging into the details
errant elm
Her team didnât die I think
worthy rose
...is it? before the short we knew she fought the mechs
errant elm
Mechs were damaged
dire timber
most regulars here are used to it
twin pollen
@rain arrow the character is developed through her actions, it can be subtle things you have to think about why she did everything in the short. Theyâre not just gonna state d.va is a hard worker or something, itâs shown
sand kraken
Her team were seen after the fight
rain arrow
@errant elm they explained her job...meis was the same but she still has so much more to her through that whole short...
sand kraken
At a conference
worthy rose
oh shit whoosp, then decommissioned
rain arrow
@twin pollen shown? Again..look at the love the other characters for, can you honestly admit the same was given for dva?
errant elm
How is, feeling that you are alone and canât make any mistake or youâll disappoint your team and the city and you canât ask for help, just her job?
twin pollen
Wait so what happened to the other mechs?
errant elm
They were damaged
sand kraken
They were damaged very badly
worthy rose
i assume destroyed in the last mech attack
rain arrow
@errant elm she never ever said she was alone or anything like that, you are putting this in that aren't there
errant elm
They werenât expecting another attack for months but the omnics suddenly attacked
dire timber
@twin pollen no, you see, people need everything stated outright with a bunch of boring exposition
it happens with Star Wars too, lmao
rain arrow
@dire timber bastion short, try again
errant elm
Dude she had that feeling, didnât you see how big pf a moment that asking for help was
worthy rose
hes got you there
dire timber
does he
because I think he'd have complained about Bastion's short if it were released today
rain arrow
@errant elm where? How? She's not real. You need to state that, you are trying to add something in that is never explained or referenced
dire timber
"HURR WE LEARNED NOTHING!"
sand kraken
guys this isn't about "who wins the argument"...
worthy rose
thats some heavy reaching lad
dire timber
"DIDN'T EVEN MEET UP WITH THE OTHERS!"
tidal musk
bastion short has information in it tho
dire timber
"BEING A WAR MACHINE IS JUST ITS JOB"
rain arrow
@worthy rose your should have seen the beginning.. The insult and trying to get people to mob me
twin pollen
đż
errant elm
@rain arrow dude she litterally was in her mech and needes the dude to blow up her mech and than it was like a whole moment where she was asking for help
dire timber
"JOB ISNT CHARACTER"
rain arrow
@dire timber oooo you fell right into this trap.. Thank you....
worthy rose
i mean in bastion we saw ptsd in action, his acceptance of being happy, learning nature, learning history, etc
tidal musk
is this about if the new short had enough info/lore in it?
dire timber
@rain arrow what trap
sand kraken
Omg guys
dire timber
this is stupid fucking nonsense
worthy rose
and bastion was almost universally well received to my knowledge
errant elm
Yeha
rain arrow
@dire timber didn't you say that you hate other who don't understand the lore... What was bastions lore again?
tidal musk
bastion short is the best one lol
rain arrow
@worthy rose and nothing was said except beeps and boops
dire timber
I'm done explaining the shorts to you
errant elm
I liked Mei the most because of snowball
dire timber
lmao
worthy rose
what are you explaining
rain arrow
@dire timberLOL
twin pollen
Also when she blew up the mech-you realize how much she cares about the mech-She practically lives in it for some time-it was probably pretty hard for her to not only ask for help, but ask to blow her precious mech up
worthy rose
youre just sitting on a high pedestal throwing insults
tidal musk
@twin pollen is that satire
worthy rose
my opinion is that it didnt expand AS MUCH as other shorts
rain arrow
@errant elm yes, snowball was interesting..it was surprisingly detailed on how snowball was used
errant elm
@twin pollen exactly. Tbh this canât be denied
rain arrow
@twin pollen again, she never said any of that.. You are putting things into the character to flesh her out..
dire timber
"but she blows it up all the time in game lel xd"
errant elm
@worthy rose sure I understand that but this other guy is denying character expansion
worthy rose
fair enough
twin pollen
@rain arrow but it doesnât have to be said, itâs called context clues
errant elm
@rain arrow dude we donât need her litteral words to understand how she felt
twin pollen
You can easily pick it up from the short
worthy rose
she doesnt really need to go "im gonna miss you" to the meka and kiss it sweet dreams for you to realize she hesitated before pulling the trigger
rain arrow
All the things to guys are saying NEVER HAPPENED your are only thinking it did because without it, it makes her look week, she never started she was alone, there's no context to the mech because she just rebuilds it, no memorial or anything else was there? @errant elm @twin pollen
twin pollen
@errant elm exactly
dire timber
exactly what I was talking about, lmao
errant elm
The moment and the way she talked said enough
dire timber
they need dull exposition
dire timber
everything blandly stated outright
rain arrow
@worthy rose it's an example
dire timber
or else it's not fleshed out
rain arrow
@dire timber where? In the hesitation?
errant elm
@rain arrow When did we say she said it? I said that she feels that way about her being alone
rain arrow
@worthy rose that shows how close she is to her mech? The hesitation?
unreal onyx
Have you seen this poster? https://i.imgur.com/Yrq2DBq.jpg Do you know where is it from? Is there a hq version?
dire timber
the short should have just been D.va stating a detailed description of her personality
lmao
rain arrow
@errant elm but she's not.... She's got her friend
worthy rose
you double guess yourself when you hesitate
dire timber
so that people don't miss it
worthy rose
thats the point
twin pollen
@dire timber lol
rain arrow
@worthy rose yeah but is that about the mech?
errant elm
@rain arrow BUT SHE DOESNâT UNDERSTAND THAT
rain arrow
@errant elm... But she does.. She speaks to him with history
worthy rose
smh my complaints are different from this guys
rain arrow
The most you get is that she is confident and he didn't think so
@worthy rose no no.. Watch.. It's going to get better
errant elm
@rain arrow You really know nothing bout emotions and humans do you?
dire timber
rain arrow
@errant elm ahh there's the insult.. Can't counter, guess
Gotta attack the character
worthy rose
i mean i hated reinhardt before his short to be fair
i thought he was just a loud obnoxious prick
twin pollen
@rain arrow what did you want? An interview where she talks about herself? This short provides a animation that can watch for fun, or look at all the clues to really understand d.va.
rain arrow
@errant elm again.. Nothing you said is true..her friend is already with her..
errant elm
@rain arrow Dude you are not even countering our points. You are just denying
dire timber
she seemed like an obnoxious "gg nerf this ;)" gamer girl
worthy rose
I want her friends to be playable
didnt they show her fighting the mechs
If they arent dead
dire timber
while in the short, we've seen she's not all that
rain arrow
@errant elm projection? I did... You just don't think they are good enough
errant elm
@rain arrow Remember the short isnât only for lore, it has to be entertaining
worthy rose
they already made her the gamer but actually works and tries hard to fight for korea
rain arrow
@worthy rose yeah they showed this exact same thing in the we are overwatch trailer
tidal musk
my biggest gripe with the short was embracing the stupid doritos and soda meme lol
worthy rose
with how she speaks to zarya
dire timber
@tidal musk that was around for a while
tidal musk
obviously
twin pollen
Gotta love the memes
rain arrow
@errant elm .... So now your saying that it's supposed to be more about the entertainment than the lore? But they've been able to do both.. Multiple times
tidal musk
i just think the gremlin dva meme is stupid and didn't like how it's officially part of her character now
worthy rose
Seriously is no one else interested in the other pilots?
dire timber
well, we are
tidal musk
they're interesting but we won't hear about them again lol
dire timber
in the sense that we like the designs
worthy rose
she gets deep in her in game interactions n shit so thats not really new. reinhardt does too but his story expanded upon his line of (i paraphrase) "many soldiers fought and died here may they rest in peace"
dire timber
for them, and for their mechs
errant elm
@rain arrow Dude I say: âShe thinks sheâs alone and canât any mistake or sheâll lose and has difficultties asking for help.â This is seen in the way she asks for help. You: âBut she didnât say that!â
tidal musk
they're like mech power rangers
dire timber
but otherwise, I don't think they're going to be expanded on
worthy rose
do you think they can join together to make one big robot
rain arrow
@errant elm she never ever thinks that.. Ever. She goes out alone because she needs to act quickly..
worthy rose
Dvas got the worst design of them all imo
dire timber
maybe they'll show up in a comic or something
tidal musk
@worthy rose oh shit...
twin pollen
Please no...
dire timber
@worthy rose definitely not
tidal musk
MEKAzord
dire timber
no shitposting
worthy rose
oh fuck off lmao
as for rein's short
it was pretty neat to see him use his abilities
errant elm
@rain arrow She couldâve waited for back-up (donât know how long thag would take) and she clearly has problems askibg for help
worthy rose
i see they put in dvas missiles too
Soooo were those things omnics?
as controversial as they may be in game
twin pollen
@worthy rose I really like how defense matrix was portrayed in the short
worthy rose
yeah as broken and OP and boring as it is in game as well lmao
tidal musk
i dont think they did a good enough job of showing that D Matrix is dvas inhuman reactions
worthy rose
DM inhuman reaction?
lean silo
i thought matrix was automatic
tidal musk
no
worthy rose
Nah she button mashes
twin pollen
Lol
worthy rose
You can see it ingame
peak escarp
she shoots down incoming projectiles
rain arrow
@errant elm but that's fair. She needed to act quickly, there was no time.. But she is not alone... Her friend wanted her to, but she said she can handle it.. And she was right
worthy rose
^
errant elm
Well they showed that it can block anything
peak escarp
part of why she was recruited was her high APM
worthy rose
yeah i was confused that the short's DM is different from how it appears in game
peak escarp
which is used in activating defense matrix
errant elm
@rain arrow But she couldnât handle it. If nor for her friend the city wouldâve been damaged
worthy rose
they exploded in dm in the short but in game they just get eaten
twin pollen
Hmmm
worthy rose
Sooo what exactly traumatised dva?
tidal musk
her squad got rekt
worthy rose
her friends mechs got destroyed last fight i guess
I mean we saw that her crew was still living didnt we?
yep
peak escarp
a lot of abilities work differently in the lore than they do in the game
yeah, they're still alive
tidal musk
they won but the omnics are getting stronger over time i think was mentioned
rain arrow
@errant elm okay.. But let me ask you this... Wouldn't any of her other mech pilots do the same thing? What makes this her thing?
rain arrow
Most likely! XS
errant elm
All Iâm saying is that the short expanded on Dva
tidal musk
yeah in lore reins charge was displayed almost like fucking speed skating lol
worthy rose
Nai is saying she left quickly bc mechs approaching. this is true. sam is saying she understands the connections with her friends. thid is also truem
rain arrow
@worthy rose no he says dva thinks she's alone
dire timber
Mei can climb structures
worthy rose
they can both do that in game too...
dire timber
Tracer can blink upwards
rough lintel
Someone from the general discussion channel said people were going âin on eachotherâ here
errant elm
Yes she feels like she has to do anything and canât make any mistakes
And clearly has problems asking for help
worthy rose
tracer blinked upwards in a short?
rain arrow
.... But that's her job @errant elm
worthy rose
unless you mean comic bc i never read em
dire timber
@rain arrow that's how she feels about her job*
and that's why she accepted this job*
worthy rose
well its also her job to respond quickly to stuff like this
dire timber
because she wants to protect her country
errant elm
Her job is not: âfeeling like you have to do everything and feeling like you canât make a mistake or ask for help
worthy rose
2 different points
rain arrow
@dire timber .... Okay... But I thought the lore said they drafted gamers for this specific program.
worthy rose
literally arguing different things
What i wanna know is why is dva the only one of the crew who is so largely praised and celebrated?
bc vidya games
errant elm
She is higher skilled
dire timber
yep
short scaffold
DVA was a celebrity beforehand
worthy rose
if only they expanded upon that
She got her face on buildings and drinks, she even stars in movies
rain arrow
@dire timber did she enlist by choice or was she drafted?
tidal musk
dva has more subscribers
short scaffold
She's probably PR type thing
dire timber
@rain arrow what we do know, is that she gladly joined
worthy rose
oh is that so
tidal musk
chu 
errant elm
Dva is just the better mech fighter
dire timber
that she felt it was her duty
worthy rose
true, higher apm n shit
errant elm
@dire timber THaTâs jUsT heR JoB
worthy rose
One of the mechs even looks similar to a racecar
dire timber
BUt HoW
obtuse iron
Anyone else get a DVa Unleashed vibe from this cinematic? Creator DillonGoo made a DVa short a few weeks ago like this.
worthy rose
in general, her job is to protect against the mechs. she wants to be able to do it on her own so that no one else gets hurt (can be seen by her working all day).
rain arrow
@errant elm @dire timber nice try.. But was she enlisted or drafted.. You guys sure your not the one ignoring things?
dire timber
that is just but how her job
errant elm
@rain arrow I never said anything about the way she became what she does now
worthy rose
i would assume if its just fuckin 5 people she wasnt drafted
dire timber
job how is this
rain arrow
@worthy rose it wasn't 5 according to the lore, hundreds of gamers were brought in
dire timber
just job
worthy rose
how many were meka
dire timber
@rain arrow um, source?
errant elm
Her being drafters doesnât mean that she canât be happy for taking the job and feeling like itâs her duty
rain arrow
@worthy rose I dunno the number, but the program was to use gamers to pilot the mech program
worthy rose
ok so source it
rain arrow
@errant elm drafted would mean she didn't have a choice
dire timber
we don't really how the recruitment went - just that the military turned to pro gamers for recruitment
rain arrow
@dire timber that's why I asked your earlier, was she drafted or enlisted
dire timber
whether it was a draft or not is mostly an assumption
errant elm
@rain arrow But still could be happy about having the job?
rain arrow
So it's never explained fully, so I guess that is up to assumption at that point
tidal musk
"Top stars were drafted" from dvas overwatch page lol
rain arrow
@errant elm there's a reason for it, but since it's never explained, it won't matter
worthy rose
In fact the mech of "casino" looks kinda like a jet
dire timber
historically, there were plenty drafted soldiers who were happy to accept their assignemt
but I doubt it's draft
rain arrow
@tidal musk thanks for finding that
. Looking up things from the phone is.. Annoying
tidal musk
"Seeing her new mission as a game, D.Va fearlessly charges into battle alongside the rest of her MEKA unit"
dire timber
they wouldn't spend all these resources on drafted troops
errant elm
@rain arrow Youâre just stating your own facts and opinions without countering ours. While we are saying that youâre not countering ours
worthy rose
In general, I think the short didn't expand nearly as much on anything really that "unknown" as say Soldier's or Reinhardt's. It didn't do "nothing" but it sure as shit wasn't as in depth as the others. 8 minutes to expand on upon like 2 or 3 key points which were already known/hinted at in-game
dire timber
cause draft results in a high risk of desertion
worthy rose
Idk what the other guy is on about
dire timber
which in turn, is a high risk for losing the equipment they were supplied with
errant elm
@worthy rose what you said
rain arrow
@dire timber no.. Not really.. drafted means your enlisted by force in times of emergency. Some are happy to do it
tidal musk
@worthy rose this short didn't really make me care more about dva like some of the other shorts did for their respective characters. i dont hate dva for the record
dire timber
@frank gorge yeah, same
worthy rose
she had personality... in game...
dire timber
yep
frank gorge
NO HAX REQUIRED HAHA GAMER GRILL
worthy rose
listen to her interactions with zarya and some others
frank gorge
but in the short she acts like an actual hero
dire timber
she had brief signs
worthy rose
she talks about how the mekas destroyed the village similar ro her countey
rain arrow
@tidal musk I love dva actually, I wanted to see more of her
dire timber
but very minor
errant elm
I think she has like 2 different personalities like everyone: one online and one irl
frank gorge
personally i loved the new short
it didn't expand too much on the current lore
but it was still really good
dire timber
@worthy rose dude, you're complaining about this short not expanding on her character... while being satisfied with those breadcrumbs?
frank gorge
also we got the REAL busan finally
fuck you lucioball we have busan for real this time
worthy rose
how is reins a breadcrumb
dire timber
what
errant elm
Leggo is not compalining about it not expanding
dire timber
I'm not talking about Rein
worthy rose
i literally said it didnt do nothing
frank gorge
lets be honest reinhardt's short was a retelling of something we already knew happened in the lore
even if it was probably the best short
worthy rose
Can we drop this discussion? Its going nowhere
rain arrow
@frank gorge yup but was great to watch
dire timber
well, we've seen that sweeet Omnic Crisis OR14
worthy rose
was it told before?
dire timber
and we've seen what Balderich looked like
worthy rose
if in comics then i hadnt read it
rain arrow
@worthy rose yeah, everyone is free to have their own thoughts
frank gorge
we did get some new info, like how balderich was originally chosen
errant elm
Letâs just say we should be happy that we got lore and hope weâll find more in the map
dire timber
@worthy rose it was in Rein's bio
and we've seen Crusaders battle omnics in The Last Bastion
dire timber
we know Balderich died in the battle from the start
worthy rose
i meant his understand that his stupid stunt got his best friend killed and that hes honoring the call since it was trusted to him
aka the non exposition, which you love to tout
frank gorge
i want to know more about the recall, personally
dire timber
really, D.va short gave us more new details than Honor & Glory and Rise & Shine combined
frank gorge
who else answered the call, blah blah blah
dire timber
imho
worthy rose
for someone trusted for being active in lore you sure do tunnel vision a lot when it comes to lore
rain arrow
@dire timber that's.... subjective but if you think so.. That's fine
errant elm
I want more lore on Zenyatta and I want to see Mei trying to activate an ecopoint
dire timber
what are you basing that statement on?
tidal musk
lol
errant elm
Iâd say Zenyatta short and Mei comic
worthy rose
with dvas short we learned that she wants to try harder to be able to do things on her own and to finally accept that she needs help against the sudden omnic invasion, and the names of her crew
frank gorge
no more mei lore please
dire timber
"in the opening arc, Zen talks with Mondatta, and decides to leave the Shambali
then, some time passes, and Zen meets Genji
they clash, and get into a fight, which Zen wins by outsmarting Genji, in part due to Genji's impatience
from that point onward, Genji accepts Zen's offer to become his student"
frank gorge
yes
errant elm
@worthy rose Sudden omnic attack. Nobody expected the attack to be so quick after the last one
worthy rose
in reins short he learned not to be reckless as it got his best friend killed, and watched him learn how to properly protect his team, to honor the overwatch call because of balderich, why the armor is still there, and the OR14 introduction (i think)
rain arrow
@worthy rose I think we are just not understanding something
worthy rose
mei's short showed her teams death, learning how much time has passed, trying to restart ecopoint, snowball's thingamajig, and i forgot how it ended
im summing them up generally
tidal musk
they dead bro
errant elm
Meiâs team is dead
frank gorge
there's this one theory that zen was a null sector omnic
tidal musk
we also learn that winston probably saved mei's life with the recall
worthy rose
nah meis
dire timber
I dunno why
worthy rose
they dead af
errant elm
Leggo summed Dvaâs short up quite good
worthy rose
lemme edit to unclude the sudden thing
frank gorge
canonically d.va's fusion cannons do more damage far range than her light gun close range
frank gorge
im surprised the light gun made an appearance at all tbh
worthy rose
forgot to unclude balderich
worthy rose
but being sad because your team got decommissioned vs getting your best friend killed because of your mistake... id rather have expansion on the latter than the former
dire timber
I just... seriously, outside of like, two-three lines, D.va was 99.9% gamer girl trope
dire timber
and now we've seen some actual character from her
and people are saying
that there's no difference
it's bizarre
errant elm
I think this short is enough for Dva, maybe Dva just doesnât have so much lore
dire timber
his grandiose personality is still a personality though
worthy rose
i can accept that as a reason
errant elm
Iâd rather have blizzard expanding on the Meka team as a whole
dire timber
"gg winky face" isn't
dire timber
it isn't
frank gorge
2018: i bet we'll have flying cars in the future!
2077: talking soda cans
dire timber
it kinda made her seem like a psycho
errant elm
Dva has 2 personalities: online (XD winky face) and irl (protect the city)
worthy rose
same for rein, id rather heroic rein than rein who just boasts about his kills and goes in alone
dire timber
... is another reason why you dislike her in the short is because she's not a "gg winky face nerf this" gamer girl trope in it
errant elm
Tbh just leave Dva as is, and expand on the team overall, learning all the characters as we go
frank gorge
are we all going to ignore the talking soda can
this is what technology has become in the future
dire timber
well, I mean
worthy rose
i dislike that they chose to expand very little on a shallow character when other deeper plots are begging to be told
errant elm
Isnât it just an audio tape?
frank gorge
hoverbikes and not flying bikes
dire timber
and a lot of levitating stuff
frank gorge
hovering is objectively less cool than flying
errant elm
@worthy rose maybe blizzard wants to expand on the meka team and not Dva herself
worthy rose
i hope so
worthy rose
fingers crossed
frank gorge
*lucio wall rides to the top of the building, using his soundwave to push his foes off the edge. with a gritty expression, he leans over the side of the building, uttering grimly:
"i could do this all day."*
worthy rose
i need more than 8 minutes of dva learning she needs to ask for help
errant elm
Iâd be happy if we got a bit of a power rangers esc comic thingy for the meka team
frank gorge
//shot
dire timber
and I think now we can move on to characters like Pharah, Zen, Lucio, Symmetra
frank gorge
what happened to symmetra
dire timber
and the overarching storyline
frank gorge
she has yellow eyes, but her archives spray confirms she did not have them as a child
is symmetra like partially brainwashed or some shit
errant elm
Orisa lore when?
frank gorge
in the comic i think they're orange or yellow
worthy rose
vishkar, some friend/brother of hers (i forgot), her conflict with lucio's father, the fight in brazil, etc
frank gorge
idfk
worthy rose
aka depth
dire timber
@frank gorge it's just a stylistic choice
frank gorge
oh
worthy rose
contacts
frank gorge
well there goes about a million theories
dire timber
there's no need overthinking stuff like that
worthy rose
with this story
errant elm
Guys whatâs up with Orisa is she just going to defend Numbani against Doomfist and thatâs all?
worthy rose
shes learning from others
frank gorge
is widow's brainwash shit running out or something?
dire timber
people used to believe that Pharah is a quadruple amputee
worthy rose
in game she asks a lot of questions
dire timber
because of her legs and arms in the armor
frank gorge
there are a few hints to widow regaining her will
dire timber
Widow's complicated
worthy rose
orisa asks tracer about right vs wrong and zarya about her dislike of omnics and so on and so forth
errant elm
But what would happen with Orisa I mean?
frank gorge
rose over her husband's grave, the photo of them in her house
dire timber
it's not exactly mind control per se
twin pollen
Just realized, I think we got all the d.va lore we needed, remember she is only 19, there isnât too much about her that can be made
frank gorge
widow appears to be regaining emotion, possibly regret
dire timber
it's more that she's incapable of feeling anything, and she's now in Talon for the thrill of the kill
nah
I don't think so
frank gorge
what about gerard?
dire timber
I think she's trying to make herself feel anything
errant elm
Iâd like widow to like eventually become good again
frank gorge
ah
dire timber
living in her ancestral home
peak escarp
Yes
dire timber
visiting her late husband's grave
peak escarp
Slig agrees with my theory
dire timber
she surrounds herself with the things from her past
trying to get an emotional response out of it
errant elm
Like have widowmaker and Reaper become good, Doomfist and Moira locked away, Sombra doing her own thing and make the omnics an even bigger threat
frank gorge
i like the idea of reaper being a double agent trying to take talon down, but its probably far more likely that he's just a dick
errant elm
Not now but eventually
frank gorge
we know the first doomfist was a good guy
the second one was a dick
the third one is alright but he's still a bad guy
personally i'd like to know more about the first doomfist
all we know is that he was a hero of the omnic crisis
dire timber
as far as we know, Reaper is driven by revenge
errant elm
Maybe the first doomfist can help take down the current doomfist? Like have torbjorn make him a new gauntlet?
muted rune
dire timber
... what
frank gorge
eh
errant elm
Is the first doomfist dead?
frank gorge
not sure if that would work, unless the first one was affiliated with overwatch
errant elm
Did I do a stupid again?
frank gorge
we know literally nothing about the first doomfist other than that he was a good guy
muted rune
I dont think we know if the doomfists are dead or alive
frank gorge
and that his name literally was doom fist in Swahili
errant elm
Idk I just wanted to see Doomfist vs doomfist action
muted rune
xD
frank gorge
doomfist 1: unknown
doomfist 2: dead
doomfist 3: alive
muted rune
Do we even know where the 'gauntlet' came from?
errant elm
What happened with the second?
frank gorge
i assume the first doomfist made it or had it made for him
the second doomfist was a member of talon, and the current doomfist killed him and took the gauntlet for himself
the gauntlets all look pretty different, especially the first one
errant elm
Oof
cedar moon
Jesus Christ
dire timber
the first Doomfist is known as the Savior, and he was said to be a hero of the Omnic Crisis
frank gorge
maybe
cedar moon
And Busan
frank gorge
no, not presumably
peak escarp
The first Doomfist's "gauntlet" was spiked knuckles
frank gorge
he was specifically stated to be a hero and a "really good guy"
errant elm
So it is possible to have the first doomfist take down the current?
cedar moon
Wait... it turned from spiked knuckles, to a mechanical gauntlet???
muted rune
Hes either dead or alive... Or neither
errant elm
Like do things say it isnât possible?
dire timber
the first Doomfist is probably dead
cedar moon
^
errant elm
Source?
errant elm
Fair point
cedar moon
Lmfao
frank gorge
well, possibly not
dire timber
he was probably killed by the Scourge
frank gorge
their gauntlets are very different
errant elm
Maybe heâs retired and old
frank gorge
the scourge probably took the title after doomfist 1 retired the name
muted rune
Maybe the doomfists adapted the gauntlet to suit their style...
errant elm
Guys aside from lore, how cool would doomfist vs doomfist be?
errant elm
Oh yeah of course
frank gorge
doomfist 1 is probably old, about reinhardt age
errant elm
Orisa will be the one to take down doomfist
valid shell
aside from lore in #lore-discussion
frank gorge
considering he was active during the first omnic crisis
errant elm
Lol
valid shell
Wew lad
dire timber
I kinda wish we knew something about the first Doomfist, besides his name, title and apperance
dire timber
like, Doomfist was supposed to know about his predecessors
frank gorge
if he even exists in the lore anymore
cedar moon
âNANO COLA, Enjoyyyy!!! :3â
errant elm
I kinda what him to be a part of whatâs happening now in some way
dire timber
but he never brought them up
cedar moon
God dang these shorts are so gud
muted rune
Smh Nano Cola
errant elm
A scientist
frank gorge
who apparently could destroy skyscrapers in lore
muted rune
A monkey/ gorilla
cedar moon
Better then Lucio-ohs
frank gorge
how much does winston's power vary
cedar moon
A smart monkey scientist
muted rune
Lucio-ohs in Nano Cola ?!
cedar moon
He gets mad and basically any talon guy dies
brisk harbor
Lmao monkey
errant elm
Loved it
brisk harbor
He doesn't even have tail
frank gorge
also if he's a scientist why doesn't he increase the voltage on the tesla cannon
cedar moon
Reaper got defeated, Widow got Rekt, even fudging Doomfist
frank gorge
so he can actually do damage
cedar moon
So Winston with no glasses is pretty strong
errant elm
To OP
muted rune
which Winston we on about here
brisk harbor
Gameplay isn't lore
frank gorge
i know
brisk harbor
Also the tesla cannon looked pretty deadly in his cinemtic
frank gorge
ok true
cedar moon
Ikr
cedar moon
Lmao
cedar moon
Wasnât useful with anyone else tho
errant elm
I donât even know where the general story could go from this point
cedar moon
Maybe he has more weapons to counter other heroâs?
frank gorge
yeah, his primal punch
cedar moon
Lucio or Sym short
frank gorge
and thats about it
muted rune
Lucio short will be nice, ngl
errant elm
Yes but like the Overwatch story
frank gorge
i want to see zenny boy lore
frank gorge
we know more about lucio than zen
cedar moon
I want Lucio to fight Sym with her new ultimate reeeee
errant elm
So Vishkar is bad?
cedar moon
@frank gorge bruh zen has his own map tho
frank gorge
i think its actually yahi param vasta viktar hei
lucio's VA doesn't even speak portugese but he recorded lines for lucio
give us german reinhardt smh
muted rune
I think there is less lucio lore than zen lore
frank gorge
can't stop, won't stop
muted rune
Because zen has a map, a genji...
cedar moon
âA DJ who stole from Viskarâ vs
âA monk who left the sanctum with different idealsâ
muted rune
Hm.. What sounds better?
frank gorge
lucio's dad built shiny roller skates and then got ripped off by a big evil company and then he stole it back
that's lucio lore for ya
muted rune
Lmao
frank gorge
so lucio's dad was a genius engineer, and we dont even know his name
dire timber
@frank gorge Winston was only able to beat Doomfist once enraged
and I mean
he's a genetically enhanced gorilla
frank gorge
why doesn't winston get enraged more often then
dire timber
cause he can't get enraged on demand
frank gorge
i mean sure he did it in every short he's in
muted rune
@frank gorge maybe torb is Lucio's dad..
cedar moon
You canât just get mad
brisk harbor
I mean can u control when ur enraged
dire timber
@muted rune no
cedar moon
The hulk could kill anyone with his rage if he had enough of it
dire timber
he's not
errant elm
He got mad cuz tracer got hurt I think
muted rune
xD
cedar moon
But he canât just âGET MADâ
dire timber
shitposting will result in loss of access
frank gorge
winston got mad in the doomfist short because there were 2 dps on his team and he had to solo tank
//shot
but uh
muted rune
Smh, no fun v.v
frank gorge
back to lucio
frank gorge
yes she does but that's not important right now
oK CAN WE NOT SPEAK ABOUT FUCKING TORBJORN RIGHT NOW LMFAO
muted rune
Torn is best tho
frank gorge
a N Y WAY
cedar moon
Toxic
errant elm
But what hero could Blizzard add to expand on the lore?
frank gorge
since you want lucio lore, we-
muted rune
Torb*
frank gorge
oh god damn it
cedar moon
Moira heroâs are good heros
frank gorge
everyone wanted junker queen for all the wrong reasons
dire timber
@errant elm Zen and Lucio are the ones that need lore now
frank gorge
people wanted junker queen because big strong lady, not because expansion of lore
errant elm
No junkerqueen pls
severe oxide
