lore-discussion

[limpid agate]

The objective of Blizzard is to make money

Lore doesnt make money

Lore costs money

And has minimal return

If any

Theres reason why we dont get comics anymore

Why pay some people to make a comic when you dont make any money from it

Chances are

The Anthology flopped

So they said, shit, lets stop making comics

[dapper shuttle]

lore was used as an early bait "hey guys come check out game out, it's fun, it's vibrant, we got all kinds of ethnicities, we got a nice gender balance, everything and everyone is represented also our characters are cool and our universe is so big and huge and gigantic and deep and well written"

but past that point, once people are hooked

no point in releasing stuff as often as they did at first

[limpid agate]

Correct

There are 6 places

Where lore makes money

Or at the very leas

Lore has return

3 - Hero releases

1 - Archives

1 - Gamescom

1 - Blizzcon

Maps dont need lore.

Look at every map we got this year

The only one with any lore was made for Retribution

[dapper shuttle]

last two hero releases, the lore was a huge joke, if 29 isn't as lore-rich as Moira, we riot

[peak escarp]

Brigitte added plenty of lore

while it's true that the lore doesn't make money, it could if they wanted it to

they could charge for comics or shorts or books or whatever

and people who care about the lore would buy it (and everyone else would pirate it)

making money off the lore clearly isn't a priority for them, or else they'd be doing it

[dapper shuttle]

one could say "hey it's just been 2 years, it's only beginning" and another one could say "yeah it's been 2 years and the way it looks, I don't wanna stick around for year 3"

and yeah clearly lore and the story in general isn't going anywhere right now

maybe they wanna wait until they have enough of the "core cast" revealed and we're still missing a hero or two that they'll add soon™

but that's another year to wait if that's the case, and sincerely, fuck that

the way they built the world so far, they could go literally any direction, they have so many sub plots waiting to be explored it's insane

they really have enough potential material for 10 years

i hope we won't have to wait that long for something good

please don't pull a warcraft on us

and please don't put lore behind a paywall

[nova elbow]

if they wanted the anthology to sell then they should have included content that wasn't available for free online

[dapper shuttle]

anthology as in, they tried to sell physical versions of lore-less 8 pages long comics not even 10% of the player base knows about? (i have many, many friends who don't even know there are comics out there)

No wonder that didn't sell. It's available for free online, and if it's the exact same thing as what you get online, except you pay money, why, why

Hopefully they realize 8 pages is too short

[limpid agate]

the way they built the world so far, they could go literally any direction, they have so many sub plots waiting to be explored it's insane

Welcome to why First Strike was cancelled

Its a specific, contained story

If we go down this path, it really closes all these doors

Their exact excuses ^

[dapper shuttle]

I bet it answered questions. They must have hated it. XD

[limpid agate]

They could go in any direction

But they dont want to do that

They wanna stay in perpetual limbo, for excuse number 3

The story in the player's heads is often even cooler than what we can deliver to them

[dapper shuttle]

and every new lore piece answers questions we didn't know existed and raises dozens more new ones

[limpid agate]

You wont get lots of free lore, because lore costs money to produce and has no gain

[dapper shuttle]

retribution was nice, it answered "why was moira banned from OW" and "what was the venice incident" but it raised a shit ton of questions that'll likely neve rbe answered

[limpid agate]

And paid lore is a crapshoot because people dont want to pay for story, and its a niche audience

1 good way they can do that

Which I have been saying for a long time

Is making paid campaigns

That give you bonus skins and stuff as well

[nova elbow]

I bet they could sell a few comics if they weren't available for free online

[limpid agate]

Spend $10, get a PvE campaign like a longer Retribution or Uprising, and a skin

There you go, easy money

And an excuse for lore

Maybe not easy money, but PvE content is hotly requested

I am certain it will at least make back its costs

[nova elbow]

yeah, I'm kinda hoping that what they're working on is a story-based spinoff PvE game
although a TV series is possible as well
either way they must be doing something

[limpid agate]

Theres a lego set coming soon™

[nova elbow]

maybe they could make some origin story-style shorts and air them during Overwatch League matches to interest people who don't care about esports

[dapper shuttle]

I'd pay for pve lore. I'd resent Blizzard forever for it. But I'd pay for it.

Hell, put ads before, during, and after comics that you read on their website

but make comics longer

[iron plume]

The comics are already ads

[dapper shuttle]

yeah that's what i've said here earlier

[iron plume]

for the game
Putting ads on their side won't make them nearly enough money to make it worth it if it isn't in the first place

[dapper shuttle]

how much could a comic cost anyway

[nova elbow]

I'd rather just pay for it, I'm never going to buy lootboxes and I'd much rather support them by buying actual content

[dapper shuttle]

150 000?

15k?

Make comics physical FIRST, then release them online in high res a month or two later

people would buy the comics, put scans online, but it wouldn't be as high quality as the official online release

and the online release could have, idk, sound effects, ambiance sounds, animations

but not 8-12 pages long, full length, 52

and have the physical versions signed, or give them something the online version couldn't have

like cool "3D effects" but on paper, don't know the name for it, or, idk, stickers

have a unique ingame spray with each physical copy that you can only unlock when paying for the physical copy

so many cool ideas that the fans AND the casuals would love

don't let droughts happen, for fuck's sake

[iron plume]

I hate paying for stuff in the game
People will love a physical item you must purchase to get stuff in the game

yeah no

[dapper shuttle]

if it's just a "lore friendly" spray related to the comic, i think it's alright

[iron plume]

no

just, no

firstly, some people are completionists

secondly, a lot of people who are involved in lore still aren't ready or unable to buy a physical item

it is absolutely not alright

[dapper shuttle]

ok so what's your solution

[iron plume]

not paywalling content behind physical items that's for sure

[nova elbow]

completionists have already been screwed over a thousand times by this game

[iron plume]

never to this extent

[tawny patio]

blizzcon skins hurt me

[iron plume]

for example, even if I was ready to spend money on it, Blizzard store doesn't deliver to Russia

What would be your solution to that

[limpid agate]

Russia also banned Reflections

[dapper shuttle]

move to another country

[iron plume]

can you stop spreading this

[limpid agate]

Youre free to read it in another language

[iron plume]

I've told you like three times
and kar get the fuck out with this please

[limpid agate]

But the comic was straight up never translated for cultural reasons

[iron plume]

Which means it's not banned

[limpid agate]

And Im sure that if the Blizzard store did deliver to Russia

And did deliver comics

Reflections would not be allowed

Its not a dictatorship with a chokehold on the internet, but they could at least have the power to say "Hey please dont sell the gay Tracer comic"

[iron plume]

it would get slapped with an 18 rating

but nothing else

[limpid agate]

Ok then

[iron plume]

They didn't translate it on the site because if it did the entire game's site would get the rating
which they don't want for obvious reasons

Either way, dumb shit aside, forcing physical items is pretty much never a good idea

Selling a bigger comic in digital form could work if there's enough involved people
but I doubt there is

[dapper shuttle]

https://imgur.com/R0WxsqQ if anyone can read arabic, there's some on ana's rifle

[worthy rose]

<still think they could make overwatch films dedicated to only a few characters at a time

[dark vector]

Yo, an Arabian dude here, it says in the rifle "reloading" in a way that will never be said here to be honest.

[nova elbow]

so the preorder Widowmaker skin, OWL final sprays, and the WoW content are all better than bundling a spray with a comic?

[iron plume]

none of them require purchasing a physical object

so, yes

[regal coyote]

my take is that there will be some lore, canon or not, coming soon.

partly they are for pushing products, we have nerf guns coming, and lego overwatch website is ready

it is fortunate that nnerf is smart enough (or unsmart) to go against what we know and make the shotgun from reaper easily reloadable

they should ahve just bolt the chamber with screws so it takes five minutes to reload one, and sell trenchcoats that can hold a dozen or so guns

[wary dagger]

@regal coyote definitely would buy it

[worthy rose]

I think I'm gonna buy the coloring book then scan it and convert it to SVG

[regal coyote]

^

gimme a copy :3

[worthy rose]

Id buy a physical comic if they were selling them

[regal coyote]

they did

[worthy rose]

They did? I had no idea

[peak escarp]

I have it

it's nice

and I'll buy any other anthology they put out

because if it sells better, then maybe they'll see people are willing to pay for lore

[tidal anchor]

Hey, Doc, you seem pretty knowledgeable with the lore.
Do you have any theories of your own on the OW universe?

[peak escarp]

a few small ones

I tend to be a bit of a purist when it comes to the canon lore

my main theory is that Moira is indirectly responsible for the downfall of Overwatch

1. Overwatch shuts down Moira -> Gabe goes behind Morrison's back and hires her for Blackwatch -> Retribution happens, Moira is exposed -> tension between Jack and Gabe (see point 3) -> Jack and Gabe fight, Swiss HQ explodes (possible Talon plot to make it look like the fight caused the explosion?)
2. Gabe hires Moira -> Moira does gene therapy on Gabe to "help" his condition -> gene therapy has a side effect of making him more impulsive -> Gabe shoots Antonio -> Blackwatch is exposed -> inquiries into Overwatch activity, public trust is lost -> UN shuts down Overwatch
3. [mostly theory since Moira's participation is not confirmed] Amélie kills Gerard, returns to Talon -> Moira works on Widowmaker, makes her physiology suited for sniping (idk, Blizzard says that's how it works) -> Widowmaker shoots and "kills" Ana during a mission to rescue scientists -> Ana's death is the last straw between Jack and Gabe, they fight, Swiss HQ goes boom

[dire timber]

pretty much what happened tbh

[peak escarp]

so in conclusion, the downfall of Overwatch can directly and indirectly be traced back to Moira

[worthy rose]

So who would you say is the most important overwatch character?

[peak escarp]

Gabe/Reaper is pretty central to the story

[dire timber]

there's two "main" arcs ongoing in Overwatch

old Overwatch, and new Overwatch

with old Overwatch, we have the central trio of Jack, Gabriel, and Ana

with new Overwatch we have Winston and Tracer

Blackwatch/Talon storylines also shine a spotlight on Reyes, Moira, McCree

[tawny patio]

Does no one else want more building on Lucio, D.Va and the like? The characters yet to get a cinematic nor a comic

[dire timber]

we do, we mention it all the time 😛

D.va, Lucio and Zen are the loreless trio

[peak escarp]

it's something that comes up constantly

Lucio does have a slight edge though, with those recent interactions about his father

[tawny patio]

Ah I just hadn’t seen any since I joined yesterday, I figured that would be most of what I saw in here lol

[regal coyote]

DISAGREE on point 3

I think it is more like Ana/Gabe/Jack are good friends and Ana is great in balancing between Jack and Gabe

without Ana there would be arguments

[dire timber]

?

which point 3?

[regal coyote]

but even then both of them are not to the point of shooting each other

there must be other events in between that

[dire timber]

uh, yeah, there are

you know

[regal coyote]

"3. [mostly theory since Moira's participation is not confirmed] Amélie kills Gerard, returns to Talon -> Moira works on Widowmaker, makes her physiology suited for sniping (idk, Blizzard says that's how it works) -> Widowmaker shoots and "kills" Ana during a mission to rescue scientists -> Ana's death is the last straw between Jack and Gabe, they fight, Swiss HQ goes boom
"

[dire timber]

yes

now read before that

[regal coyote]

even a more impulsive semi-tech-vampire gabe is not the kind that would shoot jack on minor reasons

theya re good friends on top of things

[dire timber]

Ana was a balancing factor to a relationship that was already strained

[peak escarp]

without Ana there would be arguments

yes

that's why it all goes to shit when she's gone

[regal coyote]

agree

[peak escarp]

they were able to work out their problems with her as mediator

[regal coyote]

but saying there must be some big event happneing after ana to stir stuff up BIG TIME

[dire timber]

it's just, Six wasn't suggesting that Ana's death was the only factor - it was quite clearly listed as one of a three

[regal coyote]

at least retribution level event if not more

[peak escarp]

I think they were always at the boiling point, Ana just kept things from boiling over

[dire timber]

I wouldn't say always

[peak escarp]

well

[regal coyote]

well at the retribution stage you see jack/gabe doing quite well

[peak escarp]

between Retribution and the end, things were getting worse

[regal coyote]

in fact at that point even if gabe suggest assassination jack might not oppose too much even

[peak escarp]

you can see them snap at each other a little in the Uprising comic

before Blackwatch is exposed, everything is fine

[regal coyote]

you see the snap a bit at uprising

[dire timber]

it escalated with Venice Incident, unauthorized Blackwatch activity, Ana's apparent death, and some other factors we don't about yet

[regal coyote]

but you also see gabe helping and planting maccree there, having the foresight

[peak escarp]

after Blackwatch is exposed and Jack finds out Gabe has been keeping secrets (Moira) from him, tensions begin to escalate

the trust between them is gone, otherwise Gabe would have told Jack that McCree was in London

[regal coyote]

are we sure that jack does not know about moira at all?

or is it one of the "ok gabe, i wont ask you the details, jsut get the stuff done" type

[tawny patio]

I mean iirc Moira was ex OW no?

[worthy rose]

On that note did you guys see that moira was smiling when reyes shot antonio?

[peak escarp]

Moira was not ex OW

she was shut down by OW

[regal coyote]

afterall, it is not unlikely some of the mercy tech covnersion into the prototype ana sniper rifle may have been "suggested anonymously" by moira

actually moira was Ex-Blackwatch, which by extension ex-ow

but to think in the position of Jack, if it is known by the public that people like Moira is hired and problem happened, it would be logical and tactical to cut loose moira

[peak escarp]

this picture is important to my theory

because Moira is on the monitors along with the Talon units, and is part of what Gabe is in trouble for

[regal coyote]

well moira is a known person with questionable loyalty, obviously ther would be trouble when this coems to light of the public

[peak escarp]

her bio says the higher ups in Overwatch denied knowing she was in Blackwatch

which I think is the truth

Jack and Ana didn't know, and Gabe got in trouble when they found out

[regal coyote]

unfortunately, even if jack DID know he would ahve to deny it for the sake of overwatch as an organization

on that, it is hindsight a bad idea to put moira in a position that she might be exposed

[worthy rose]

Hey im wondering, who took the photos?

[regal coyote]

probably stuff deliberately leaked by talons

tog et moira's face to public

[tawny patio]

There is an interesting bit in Soldier 76 pregame dialogues...where I believe Moira? Some woman
Implies that he knew more than he was letting on about Blackwatch stuff...I’ll see if I can find it

[dire timber]

@worthy rose it happened in public, with a lot of shooting

pretty sure it all went public

with random people taking photos, recording, sending it to the press

a lot like how it happens now

[peak escarp]

I think I know the one you're talking about

Soldier says something like "If I had known what Gabriel was planning, I'd never have agreed to it" and Moira answers "I guess it was convenient to look the other way" or something

[tawny patio]

Ye

[regal coyote]

I have a strange conspiracy theory ... that antonio never had the chance

[tawny patio]

That’s the one six

[regal coyote]

and that even if gabe were to walk out with antonio some hidden sleeper sniper/assassain would ahve shot him anyways, and trigger the alarm

[dire timber]

@peak escarp it's "I never would've allowed it"

[regal coyote]

then same things happens

[peak escarp]

ah, that's the line

[dire timber]

and "I think it was convenient for you not to look too closely into Gabriel's business"

[regal coyote]

but being shady aside, gabes tactics work

[dire timber]

it's ambiguous enough that it could be about the Venice Incident, but could also be about something that Jack would've stopped if he knew about it

[regal coyote]

it is necessary tog et dirty soemtimes

and gabe's trust in questionable personality does proof to be right in many cases, at least when it coems to mccree and genji

well, i take it as "no, you are not going to take moira out for a mission like that"

ESPECIALLY when her outfit says BLACKWATCH on it

[tawny patio]

There’s
A lot that interaction can refer to
Including Moira herself tbh

It could easily have been:
Jack- “I know I can’t do anything for legal reasons, and I know he’s doing XYZ, but if I make an investigation how will it look for Overwatch?”
I’d choose to believe that he probably did at least have ideas about Moira’s involvement, but he wanted to maintain plausible deniability

[peak escarp]

found it

[tawny patio]

Which is the vibe I got from the comics

But when Gabriel got Blackwatch revealed, plausible deniability can only go so far.

[peak escarp]

https://youtu.be/TuMgaK4IwhM?t=300

I feel like it's supposed to be "If I had known [that Reyes was going to hire you] I never would have allowed it", because it starts off with him calling Moira a disgrace

[regal coyote]

but what had Moira done before that point to make jack distrust her so much

I mean a few unethical research is not much when it comes to blackwatch member

s record

[peak escarp]

this is current day Jack talking to current day Moira

[regal coyote]

we have an ex violent gang member, and a known ex yakuza seccond-son

[tranquil sun]

"Find another errand boy, akamde." 😂

[peak escarp]

also if Overwatch had just shut down Moira for her unethical research, Jack definitely would not okay her getting hired into Blackwatch

[regal coyote]

overwatch also just shutdown deadlock gang, and hiring mccree soon after

oh and slightly different with genji's case

[peak escarp]

McCree didn't violate human rights, and was a kid in need of a second chance

[regal coyote]

but both genji and mccree jack knows about and is ok with it

[tawny patio]

See the difference

Is people riot over unethical research

[peak escarp]

Genji was more of a victim than Jesse

[tawny patio]

They don’t riot over a hired gun like McCree

[peak escarp]

it would be a little hypocritical of Jack to complain about hiring some killers

[regal coyote]

I guess it is the reality of publicity

[tawny patio]

The Jack side of the story of old Overwatch
Is largely related to politics and how the public would view things

A group of highly trained soldiers taking in another guy trained in combat? Normal
A group of highly trained soldiers taking in Moira
...............

[regal coyote]

that said we know organizations do things like that, even good ones, think about S.h.i.e.l.d.

[peak escarp]

some organization might

but Ovewatch wouldn't

specifically, Jack wouldn't

[tawny patio]

Think about what Overwatch was to the public

They were defenders of peace and all that other overly glorified stuff

[frosty shell]

Also, there were those Blackwatch leaks

[tawny patio]

To perform unethical experimentation would
Not bode well for a group like that

Or to endorse it in the form of hiring Moira

[frosty shell]

Those must've happened after Retribution and Uprising because that's why McCree left

[regal coyote]

mccree dont leave cause there are bad publicity, not his style

if mccree leave there must be something gabe or overwatch does that he does not agree with

[peak escarp]

McCree left because of the infighting between Gabe and Jack

[regal coyote]

and no we know genji transition over to regular overwatch at least during the doomfist fight

[peak escarp]

and he didn't want to pick a side

[regal coyote]

where did you get that

cause from what i see mccree is much closer to gabe than jack

[peak escarp]

"But as Overwatch's influence waned, rogue elements within Blackwatch sought to bring down the organization and turn it to their own ends. Wanting no part of the infighting, McCree set off alone and went underground."

does nobody read the bio pages?

[regal coyote]

so same set of outdated things then

same material from era where gabe is a merc

[peak escarp]

they're still canon

[regal coyote]

some of them

[peak escarp]

Reaper's bio is mostly rumors

[regal coyote]

the gabe situation is retcon obviously fromcomic

[peak escarp]

nothing solid

[regal coyote]

i think mccree too when ti comes to th swiss incident and collasp of overwatch

that era is deliberately blurry for now

[peak escarp]

why?

[tawny patio]

Tbh
Plot twist
Angela did it

[peak escarp]

we aren't given any reason to doubt the bios

Reaper's and Soldier's explicitly say that they are based on rumors

[regal coyote]

i would say this: for sure McCree left due to his own decision

He for sure left before any serious infighting happens

[peak escarp]

"Some speak of a black-robed terrorist known only as the Reaper. His identity and motives are a mystery. "
"While his true identity remains a mystery, he is believed to have been trained as a member of the American "soldier enhancement program.""

[dire timber]

@peak escarp old content is unreliable

[peak escarp]

McCree left because he was going to be forced to pick a side and he didn't want to

[dire timber]

@tawny patio please don't

[tawny patio]

Wait what’d I do

[dire timber]

reminded me of the "dae Mercy is evil xD" idiocy

[peak escarp]

old content is still canon

[tawny patio]

I’ve only been playing ~2 months

that sounds before my time

[regal coyote]

before-moira that evil-mercy theory is there for a reason

[peak escarp]

until we're told otherwise

[dire timber]

@peak escarp like I said, it's unreliable

[regal coyote]

but i dont think anyone believe in evil-mercy nowadays

[peak escarp]

even before Moira the evil Mercy theory was based on assumptions and incorrect information

[dire timber]

Mei's bio paints a very different picture compared to what actually happened

same with a lot of other teaser info by Blizzard

[regal coyote]

^^

[peak escarp]

like I said

until we're told otherwise

so far, there hasn't been any new information to contradict the idea that McCree left because he didn't want to take a side

[dire timber]

... I'm pretty sure I can consider it unreliable, whether told otherwise or not

kinda like we don't actually know whether Liao's still a thing in Overwatch lore

or dismiss all the stuff about Ray as a joke it is

[pallid nymph]

I really like it when a new hero turns out to be someone we don't know at all.

Or very little

Like Orisa, Moira, Hammond,

[tranquil sun]

hey, what happened at "the museum"? Reaper and Widow worked together in one but failed, or something

[brisk harbor]

Moira is actually connected to lore at least

[pallid nymph]

All of them are

[dire timber]

nah, D.va isn't

[pallid nymph]

But we didn't know anything about them before they were released

I'm talking about heroes that were released after the game

[brisk harbor]

We knew about Sombra and Doomfist

[pallid nymph]

Yea

[limpid agate]

Orisa and Hammond are mostly irellevant

[dire timber]

@tranquil sun they attempted to get Doomfist's gauntlet

[limpid agate]

Like DVa and Lucio

[tawny patio]

I feel like

[pallid nymph]

I don't mind having some heroes like that though

[tawny patio]

Orisa was an attempt at worldbuilding

[pallid nymph]

Makes it feel like a bigger world when they don't all know each other

[dire timber]

Orisa was a gameplay concept first, a Doomfist tease second

[brisk harbor]

When are we getting another animated short

[dire timber]

a month or so

[worthy rose]

prolly gamescom

[dire timber]

when's Gamescom?

[tawny patio]

Her cinematic largely focuses on the mentality of the “next generation” it feels like Blizzard wanted to say “we have shown you the past of this world, and this is the now that is going on outside of Overwatch v Talon stuff”

[dire timber]

Idk, I didn't get that vibe

it did shine a spotlight on Doomfist and Numbani

[tawny patio]

I write a lot of fiction, maybe I’m just looking for world where there is none to be had rn

[dire timber]

but that's pretty much it

[frosty shell]

Does the US government know who Soldier: 76 is because of his number?

I know that it doesn't make as much sense because it's a later development

Two theories: they know and they haven't revealed it because details on the Soldier Enhancement Program are still classified or they want to protect Morrison

Or internally the super-soldiers are only identified by their numbers and their true identities are secret to everyone

I also wonder what happened to the other super-soldiers

They're probably the reason that people know about the program at all

[tawny patio]

Question before I say something dumb:
Is there any evidence that lore wise Jack has left Mexico? After the cinematic?

[limpid agate]

Yes

Old Soldiers

[peak escarp]

he was last seen in the Necropolis outside of Cairo

[tawny patio]

So is it possible that the American government believes Jack dead and either
A) Doesn’t know about Soldier
Or
B) Assumes the name to be a coincidence?

[brisk harbor]

Well

He did just walk in a helix and stole the weapon

[peak escarp]

I think it's more likely that they know it's Jack but can't say anything because then the SEP would get exposed

and the SEP is supposed to be classified

timeline of Soldier: 76's appearances in the lore:
-> raids Watchpoint: Grand Mesa and steals the Pulse Rifle
-> goes to Dorado and beats up Los Muertos goons (mid-late October; they're setting up for the celebration/activation of the power plant which happened Nov 1)
-> goes to Cairo to look for Shrike, gets ambushed by Reaper, gets saved by Ana
-> sets up with Ana in the Necropolis and begins tracking/studying Reaper's activities

[manic sail]

@worthy rose read this lol

[worthy rose]

i dont wanna @manic sail

[brisk harbor]

What caused Reaper to hate Overwatch so much

[dusk whale]

Well maybe Mercy turning him undead

[peak escarp]

Mercy did nothing to Reaper

we don't know why Gabe turned against Overwatch

[brisk harbor]

I thought it was Moira that caused Gabes condition

[peak escarp]

correct

[brisk harbor]

But why does he seem to blame Jack

[peak escarp]

we don't know

[dusk whale]

Mercy did tho

[brisk harbor]

No

Mercy is a pacifist

[peak escarp]

there's a lot about the last years of Overwatch that is a mystery

Mercy was not involved in Reaper's condition

[dusk whale]

in-game quotes seem to disagree

[brisk harbor]

Are u shitposting or actually being serious

[peak escarp]

there are no in-game quotes that say Mercy made Reaper

there is one where Reaper asks Mercy to explain his condition, but he is not accusing her of doing it

[sullen compass]

Please subscribe to my new yt channel. We do fortnite videos and commentary. I’m just starting out so please help me. Here’s my first vid https://youtu.be/TQ0Eo9Aljsg

[peak escarp]

no

[brisk harbor]

No

@sullen compass #video-content

[dusk whale]

Are you guys shitposting?

https://www.quora.com/How-did-Gabriel-Reyes-become-the-Reaper

Pls read

and thanks you

[peak escarp]

that is incorrect

Mercy was not involved

[brisk harbor]

There is no evidence supporting this

[dusk whale]

"What happened" - mercy

"you tell me doc" -reaper

Look at the way he says it

his obviously blaming her

and the majority of the community believe that mercy was part of what made him undead

check every forum

[tawny patio]

There was
An old unadded dialogue that implied Mercy caused Reaper

[dusk whale]

^^¨

[peak escarp]

the correct quote is
Mercy: "What happened to you?"
Reaper: "You tell me, doc."

[dusk whale]

Yeah basically what I just wrote

[tawny patio]

But it was
Unadded

So...

[peak escarp]

here's who made Reaper

you can see her actually doing it

Mercy was not involved

[dusk whale]

What shortstory/comic is that from?

[peak escarp]

that's from Moira's origin trailer

[tawny patio]

^^

[peak escarp]

there is nothing in any official source that says Mercy was involved in creating Reaper

[tawny patio]

Unadded = unimportant imo

[peak escarp]

several official sources state that Moira was responsible for Reaper's condition

[dusk whale]

No official sources state that

that pic shows that Moira experimented on Reaper

not that she created him

[peak escarp]

the experiments are what gave him his powers

[desert yacht]

Have you not kept up with the lore in the past year

[dusk whale]

Gimme the official sources then

[desert yacht]

His new powers involve lifesteal and fading away

You know who else has those

[dusk whale]

Don't talk about in-game powers as Kaplan himself said that's uncanon

[peak escarp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ETybQd4uRE

[dusk whale]

That's not proof she created him

[tawny patio]

Where’s the proof that Mercy did?

[peak escarp]

where's your proof that Mercy created him then?

[dusk whale]

His sarcastic voice line in the game

[tawny patio]

That

[dusk whale]

Just as much proof as your pic

[tawny patio]

Wasn’t added

[peak escarp]

voice lines are not canon

[dusk whale]

Says who?

@tawny patio it was added

Search up reaper quotes on youtube

[peak escarp]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753735625#post-13

"(To make it extra confusing: it gets a little more complicated in-game because we chose to have some non-canon interactions because I think it's more interesting to have Reinhardt take out Reaper and say, "Traitor!" than to accurately reflect that he doesn't know Reaper's true identity. But as I've said before, events in game shouldn't be considered strictly canon.)"

from Michael Chu, head writer of Overwatch

[dusk whale]

"some non-canon"

so this is Basically theory vs theory

[tawny patio]

Some non-canon isn’t to say that any are canon
It’s to say that while some use real knowledge some use meta-knowledge bc it’s more fun
If you ask me

[peak escarp]

except your "theory" is based on a voice line that doesn't even support the theory

https://youtu.be/Al6C-SVvpbI?t=315

also see here, Michael Chu confirming Moira's involvement with Reaper

"Very mysterious, almost like there's a connection there . . . Yes. Yes there's a connection there."

[dusk whale]

connection

[peak escarp]

you have still failed to support your theory

I have given you two confirmed sources

[valid shell]

Oh God.

I step out for 10 seconds to get some milk and we're back in "DAE MERCY = REAPER????? ?'

[peak escarp]

someone is actually defending it this time

[dusk whale]

I am just gonna wait and see till they 100% confirm it 😃 @ me then cya

[peak escarp]

@dusk whale

[desert yacht]

If there’s no lore besides an in-game voiceline then we can’t assume it’s true

[peak escarp]

if Mercy was involved, why would she ask Reaper what happened to him?

that makes 0 sense

[tawny patio]

I mean if you take everything in your gameplay to be canon all the characters have died a million times, Ana can’t aim, there’s two of several people, and to only reference King’s Row, neglecting every other map

For some reason even the good guys are pushing an EMP to go kill or disable a ton of omnics

[viral dove]

Hmmm

Owo

[tawny patio]

And they are all consciously aware of the fact they have died***

Multiple times

[peak escarp]

yes, that's what we're saying

[tawny patio]

That’s the point

[peak escarp]

what's that phrase? ah yes

Stupidity is not a right.

[pure kernel]

Lmao

[zenith hill]

Question: Did the Shimada clan run most of what occurred in Japan, much like how the mafia controls Mexico

[peak escarp]

We don't really know the scope of their influence, but it had to be significant for Overwatch to be interested in shutting them down

[frosty shell]

And in countries like Mexico, there are multiple cartels

I'm not sure how powerful the Yakuza are or were in Japan now, though the Shimadas are probably somewhat more powerful

There are probably other families that are the Shimada's rivals

Although it may have been that the Shimadas were the most powerful

[frosty shell]

It's likely that the Omnic Crisis may have helped them gain power

[peak escarp]

War is usually good for gun runners

[frosty shell]

War. Good god, man. What is it good for? Gun runners, I guess.

[peak escarp]

lol

[valid shell]

lmfao

tahd made me XD

[worthy rose]

war. war never changes.

[worthy rose]

War...has changed

[split nimbus]

Doc what do you think the next lore event could be based arround?

[valid shell]

There's not many options remaining.

[brisk harbor]

First omnic crisis?

[valid shell]

@brisk harbor How would that work?

Ana wouldn't have biotic grenades or her sleep dart, Reaper wouldn't have any shadow powers.

Soldier wouldn't have his biotic field.

Only Torbjorn and Reinhardt would be the same.

[brisk harbor]

Oh

I'm not sure then

[split nimbus]

What about operation white dome? They could bring new skins in for it to make sense right?

[valid shell]

Ana wouldn't make sense.

And they would have to make Emre playable.

[frosty shell]

It's called Archives, so it'll have to be an Overwatch mission

Maybe Emre would be AI controlled?

[valid shell]

Maybe.

But there's still the issue of Ana.

Also, Torb and Rein have already gotten an Archives event.

[frosty shell]

The ex-OW characters who haven't showed up are Morrison, Ana and Winston. I doubt Mei would show up

So there will probably be replication

That might mean we'll get an ex-OW member for one of the next two heroes

Unless we're going to play as the enemy

Or we could play as a one-man army

[peak escarp]

I think that despite the name, Archives events don't have to be Overwatch or set in the past

[frosty shell]

We could get a new OW mission

like a mission in the present day

[peak escarp]

We have enough heroes for a new Overwatch mission - Winston, Tracer, Mei, Reinhardt, Brigitte, Torbjorn, Bastion

[frosty shell]

People have been asking for that

[peak escarp]

If they wanted to stick with the format of a 4 person mission, I'd say Brigitte, Rein, Torb and Bastion

Although Rein and Torb were already in Uprising

[valid shell]

I've always liked the idea of an outlaws event.

We know that Sombra, McCree, Junkrat, and Roadhog all frequent Calaveras.

And they all have prices on their heads.

Well, 3/4 of them do, but Sombra's probably also wanted.

[peak escarp]

Definitely

[valid shell]

It would be neat to have an event where they're all enemies of their enemies.

[peak escarp]

There are 2 more heroes coming between now and the next Archives, who knows - they could fill out a 4 person team

[valid shell]

They could, but not without a bit of country/organization bloat.

Although, since you guys are so convinced that Junkertown Queen is next, that would make a four-man-band.

[peak escarp]

Could be

[brisk harbor]

I just don't see junker queen working with junkrat and hog

[peak escarp]

Or it could be 4 people who didn't have a connection before being given a connection through the event

[frosty shell]

Maybe a Deathmatch-based mode?

I thought it would be a good idea to do Chateau Murder Mystery for Halloween

[peak escarp]

Eh, I really like the PvE format

[brisk harbor]

Yeah same

I hope we get something other than endless this halloweem

[peak escarp]

It's the best way to do story-based missions without worrying about the wrong team winning

[frosty shell]

For Murder Mystery one of the characters is supposed to kill the others without getting caught

[valid shell]

You know.

Ana has a wasteland skin and was off the radar for a long time.

I could see her ending up in Australia on a bounty hunt.

I mean, her character aesthetic was literally ripped from Mad Max.

[frosty shell]

You can kill other people if you suspect they are the murderer

[valid shell]

Let's keep that kinda stuff in GMod.

Otherwise next we'll be getting Overwatch Battle Royale.

[frosty shell]

But you lose half of your health if you kill someone innocent

[valid shell]

Either way, such an event would be noncanon, and doesn't belong here.

[frosty shell]

ok

[limpid agate]

I'd like to see more expansion of PvE

I was pleasantly surprised we didnt get Null Sector again

I was hoping we would get Null Sector with some new bots, maybe a boss bot

But Talon worked just as well

A third party would be cool, but I would be happy with NS or Talon if we get a boss

[rose escarp]

how would the ai function with this type of game??

[limpid agate]

What, PvE?

Like in Uprising/Retribution

[rose escarp]

but a boss?

what mechanics would they have? all i can see is another heavy armor unit bullet sponge from retribution lol

[tawny patio]

Bullet sponge that hits hard and sleeps or stuns

[valid shell]

@rose escarp Mechanics isn't really something to discuss here.

[peak escarp]

I love that they added unique units for Retribution that weren't just reskins of a hero

It opens up the possibility of doing more of that for other events

[versed zenith]

Why does Zarya have his hair dyed pink?

[valid shell]

@versed zenith Her*

[tawny patio]

Because
Aesthetic

[versed zenith]

Pretty sure Zarya's a dude.

[valid shell]

Shitposting will result in loss of access.

[versed zenith]

Is discussing a character's features not part of Lore Discussion?

[valid shell]

Pretending to be abjectly incorrect for the sake of making an unfunny joke is against the rules.

[peak escarp]

Zarya is a female

[versed zenith]

It's not a joke...?

[valid shell]

I know it isn't.

Jokes are usually funny.

Fine, I'll bite: Explain why you think "Zarya's a dude".

[tranquil sun]

actually, don't do that

[valid shell]

No, no. I want to see him try to back it up before I ping a mod.

[versed zenith]

Why are you all attacking him? He was just asking a question.

jesus

[valid shell]

Because he knows, and we all know, that Zarya's female.

So, no. He's not "just asking a question", he's trying to get some cheap laughs.

[tranquil sun]

@versed zenith people just really like minimodding

Rynd isn't breaking the law by being stupidly wrong about someone's gender, lol

[valid shell]

Which is why I want him to back it up.

But apparently...? You think he shouldn't.......?

I misunderstand what side you're on.

[tranquil sun]

you're just looking for a fight

[versed zenith]

^

That's all this is lol

[valid shell]

You guys sure laugh out loud a lot.

[tawny patio]

So how about that Genji x Mercy huh guys?

[valid shell]

...D

Do you actually think he genuinely mistook Zarya's gender?

Why did you delete your posts.

[versed zenith]

Everyone makes mistakes

[valid shell]

Don't be a coward.

[tranquil sun]

hey man, take it to g-d @valid shell

haha

[valid shell]

haha

[versed zenith]

lol

Noone ever answered his question though. I guess Zayra just likes pink...?

[valid shell]

Yup.

[peak escarp]

we aren't given a reason

[valid shell]

@versed zenith Why do you keep deleting your unfunny, honestly offensive posts?

[tawny patio]

Because not everyone is gonna have normal colors

[timid eagle]

My guess is when Zarya had to get her hair cut (after enlisting for the military), she probably got it dyed soon afterwards. @versed zenith

[peak escarp]

Maybe Zarya is just more feminine than she appears

and she likes pink

[timid eagle]

She is also, apparently, a theater geek.

If you play Zarya on Attack on V. Industries, she quotes several passages from several Russian theater plays.

[peak escarp]

interesting

[timid eagle]

The only one that I recognize is a quote from Peter Trofimov, a character from The Cherry Orchard.

"Perhaps a man has a hundred senses, and when he dies only the five known to us are destroyed and the remaining ninety-five are left alive."

[iron plume]

She has a few references to Russian history and literature

Bliz did their homework

Her telescope saying is a quote from Gagarin

[tawny patio]

The irony here is that imo her comic makes her look like a total meat head with some moral conflict

[worthy rose]

Shes a big military weightlifting lady

[limpid agate]

I liked her new years quote. It was from a great comedy.

[worthy rose]

Not to sound rude that but that sounds like a blockhead to me

Even if she is actually really smart

[limpid agate]

Zarya is will versed in literature. The downside is Searching

But everyone in that comic was an idiot

Not just her

Volskaya and Lynx too

[worthy rose]

I was kinda dissapointed that sombra and volskaya's "friendship" thing was over instantly

Kinda made infiltration pointless

[desert yacht]

wish we could post images here

[iron plume]

if you have something relevant to post, you can upload it and share a link

[desert yacht]

well

remember the sombra mindmap of the organization things

in her origin?

[iron plume]

yes

[desert yacht]

there was the eye

that was connected to everything

and that originally found her

is that like

the iris

or something else

[iron plume]

we don't know
but it's unlikely

it doesn't suggest that it is

[desert yacht]

yeah

it's just the only eye in the lore though

i'm guessing it's gonna get slowly hinted at in the next few years

[iron plume]

An eye is also a generally common symbol for conspiracies

[worthy rose]

I know hammond seems happy and cheery and stuff but do you think its possible that he may be kinda evil? Considering his relations with the junkers

[desert yacht]

i think he's evil

i think he started the lunar colony rebellion?

[tidal anchor]

Yeah, I think so.

He also escaped his cage quite a lot.

[iron plume]

he didn't start the rebellion

it was a rumor before the hammond reveal
but it's been dismissed

and he escaped his cage because he's hyperactive and seeks adventure
not because he was plotting something

[worthy rose]

Still though, he was friends with the queen and the junkers

And obviously alot of them are bad news

[iron plume]

he crash landed in junkertown and used his talents to get resources

there's nothing suggesting he's actually friends with junkers

he's the champion of the arena but there's nothing else about it

[regal coyote]

@limpid agate on Zarya, she is a great warrior and a smart person, but she is not made for subtle actions.

Basically kat is so desperate and untrusting that she would rather go for a person she trust which is not cut for such a mission.

In a way I am dissspointed at her being a supposedly great russian leadership figure.

Also Lynx is not helping much.

I can forgive it for being a sombra leak without knowing, but it really does not provide zarya with much help, and whatever it provides is basically just Atlasnews stuff, and no doubt soemthing any decent person can know with a few simple hours of research, something zarya probably could have done (or already done)

Sombra at least have the benefit of the doubt of being the "mouthy demon" type of classic trope... and that is on top of the possability of her trying to drag on the conflict so she can feed zarya some info.

She is obviously prepared (with the bugged lynx in the first place) but might have overdone with the toying

Aj the little girl should ahve been executed slowly for being a snitch (if not for being an underage girl so she is forgiven)

I mean if sombra is an anti-hero like most of the people there praise her as, then Aj should not snitch to some foreign russian agency

I mean, it is not like zarya even try to disguise her as a foreigner sniffing around for info

[tawny patio]

Sombra is no anti-hero

But she’s no villain

She’s a chaotic neutralish space, she does what it takes to do what she wants in the world, if it helps people along the way cool, if not

An anti-hero falls under a chaotic good, wrong thing for the right reason

And that’s
Not the Sombra we have been shown at all

[regal coyote]

No, she is not anti-hero

but for the area zarya is in, sombra is hailed as an anti-hero since it is not long after the LumiCo incident where she took down some corrupted mofo

so for most people they know sombra as "person who take down a corrupted guy"

I would say from the commoner local's point of view she is seen as anti-hero?

also as a person to friends and regular townsperson i dont think sombra is an asshole, especially not to the lady of the bakery you would visit every so ofter for YEARS.

so from Aj's point of view sombra as a person buying bread and what not often she should not be seen as a bad person either

I dont think sombra is the type that would walk into the bakery, take what she wants without paying, and beat people up for fun knowking up shit and kicking puppies.

[tawny patio]

Oh yeah no and especially not in a small community tbh

When you’re already doing a ton of illegal activities and hold secrets against people in high up places you don’t exactly want to draw attention

[regal coyote]

indeed

and from Aj's mother's reaction sombra seem to be a decent enough human.

also seeing how most people in the town deny anything you know she is at least not on the negative side of the popular opinion

[tawny patio]

I mean to the town where she’s primarily laying low and likely not leaving her place often bc hacker stuff

She’s probably just another person

The gangs seemed to be the biggest focus

[worthy rose]

Sombra is definitely suffering privacy fatigue

[regal coyote]

might be

[regal coyote]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/96b4q5/blizzard_teasing_dva_lore_new_dva_skin_in_the_new/

thoughts?

[grim cipher]

I think it would be nice to have more dva lore

[limpid agate]

New lore, no

Skin, yeah

[tidal anchor]

Zen lore please.

[peak escarp]

for a long time people thought Hammond led the ape rebellion, but looking back over the emails on Horizon, I don't get how anyone thought that

the only specimen named in relation to any violence was Simon, not Hammond - Hammond only went missing

also I don't get why Hammond being associated with the Junkers would make him evil - the Junkers as a group aren't evil

[worthy rose]

True

[regal coyote]

Well the junker evil thing is probably due to mad max

But so far it seems they are much friendlier.

they have mech fights rather than people killing each other in a cage with rubberbands. they seem to have much higher tech and more abundant things like water,r elatively.

They unfortuantely dont spraypaint their face, and for sure they NEED to play good metal with flamethrowing guitar.

[peak escarp]

We're they even evil in mad max? Seemed just chaotic to me

[regal coyote]

But yeah as a whole they wont be considered evil.

relative tough and rough and maybe a bit barbaric in the classical sense yes.

for madmax, it depending on groups and leaders.

some leaders are evil yes, a few groups are raiders.

but junkers arent raiders here

as for hammond evil, i think at one point there was some people speculating that hammond lure the scientist to the air lock and free them outside.

That would kinda work if you think he is a chimp, planet of the apes style.

but i am one of the few that believe he is not an ape

I was going for a more reasonable choice than Blizz, a racoon. (which as we know is most likely the inspiration of hammond. THAT one important racoon with a pet tree, or you can call it a space rabbit, trashpanda, etc)

[nova elbow]

isn't the whole "we hate and kill Omnics" thing a core Junker value? seems pretty evil to me

[regal coyote]

well it is well deserved

if one day your government give everything you ahve to the robots ... your whole town, house and everything... you would hate them too

i would kill a whole town to get MY shit back, cause THEYA RE MINE.

basically it is a simple reasonable (mybe selfish) idea of "give me back my shit"

the whole incident of ALF (aussie liberation front) was based on that. and reason where they decide to end the omnic problem against them by destroying the omnium once and for all

so yeah it seems aussie government's unfair deal with omnic sparks the whole thing

[tawny patio]

Iiii
Don’t know my DC like that 😅

[dire timber]

me neither tbqh

but point is, Sombra's mostly just selfish, and her goal may temporarily coincide with those of the heroes at one point

[iron plume]

eeeeehhhh

HQ is pretty bonkers

i wouldn't say sombra is in that way

[dire timber]

I mean this whole "chaotic and unpredictable" aspect

not the same thing, but

[iron plume]

She has a goal and she does evil shit for Talon in order to achieve it
but it's mostly out of necessity?

[dire timber]

Idk

[iron plume]

Sombra is anything but chaotic

[tawny patio]

I stand by my DnD alignment of a chaotic neutral

[iron plume]

She's not loyal but in her own actions she's very deliberate

[dire timber]

yea, I guess

let's just move on from this line of discussion

[valid shell]

Chaotic Neutral, AKA holds up spork lol

[iron plume]

anyway point is she's with the bad guys presently and she's done bad shit

[dire timber]

DnD alignments are overused

[iron plume]

DnD is a world where evil is an actual like
thing

it lives in you and makes you do evil shit for the sake of it

[valid shell]

Though in 5e it's no longer a factor for player characters.

[iron plume]

so comparing stories where characters have actual motivations to it, no one is gonna be evil

[tawny patio]

DnD alignments are just
Easy to remember and compare imo

WELL
I
Could make a loose case for Doomfist being a lawful evil
Given although he has motive
He wants to create an anarchy in order to allow the world to find its’ own evolution
Which is def not any neutral
I’m sure a case could be made for chaotic good but that’s not a..’good’ desire

[iron plume]

By any reasonable standards all of Talon are evil

with various levels of possibility for redemption, but presently evil

[valid shell]

Moira's True Neutral, Widowmaker's Neutral Evil, Reaper's Chaotic Evil, Sanjay's Lawful Evil, Doomfist is probably Chaotic Neutral.

Dunno what Max is. Chaotic Money.

[iron plume]

Moira is not neutral
but not getting into that for the 13000th time

[valid shell]

Moira's explicitly described as amoral. A morality alignment chart doesn't apply to her.

[tawny patio]

True neutral is
Not how to describe her

[iron plume]

People who don't give a shit about morals
are evil

[valid shell]

You guys sure like saying what she isn't.

Let's hear your take.

[iron plume]

which is why I said by a reasonable definition

[tawny patio]

It is the ultimate form of balance
You won’t hurt someone to achieve your goals
You won’t help someone you won’t have to
You won’t fight unless forced and if you do will show no mercy

I don’t know enough about her to say what she is

But she’s not true neutral

[regal coyote]

morals have nothing to do with good.evil, get off that moral high horse

you can be decent without following any moral code

just basicall react to things as they do onto you

that is one of the possible choises

[valid shell]

Choises?

[iron plume]

that's still a moral

you don't have to follow an established code

[regal coyote]

but moira is at least chaotic. the not evil part is said by papa jeff (or one of the blizz people)

then according to you doomfist is having a moral code too

so did others (except maybe thigns like junrat and machines like bastion)

[valid shell]

Junrat?

[iron plume]

...so?

having a code of behavior doesn't mean you're good
if that code includes doing evil shit

[regal coyote]

haveing moral code and you can still be evil, just saying

[tawny patio]

Okay
Ngl
I think Junkrat would fit a chaotic evil
Mayhem and destruction just for the hell of it

[worthy rose]

Moira is morally grey imo

[tawny patio]

Moira
Okay so
Because I don’t know, what motivates her?

[brisk harbor]

Science

[regal coyote]

she enjoys research and development

she is science advancement without limitation, left unchecked and without restrictions

And i do believe she is not the type that would forge research paper.... the reason things are not repeatable is probably she left out lots of illegal stuff she did in between to make things work... lots

[dire timber]

sigh

people are so unwilling to accept that complete disregard for morals is something evil

[tawny patio]

I
Agree with you
To an extent of motivation

[dire timber]

evil people can have "good" motivations

motivations are meaningless in that regard

[brisk harbor]

Isn't evil a subjective term

[dire timber]

isn't "subjective" a subjective term

[brisk harbor]

True ya got me

Lol

[dire timber]

I don't like when people try to stupidly subjectify everything

like, no, in some matters, it's not just "a matter of different opinion lol"

[brisk harbor]

You could see Moira as evil because of her immorals

[valid shell]

Careful with those quotations, you're going to start sounding like me.

[brisk harbor]

But her intentions aren't necessarily bad

You could view her as either

[dire timber]

she's one of the leaders of a terrorist organization

that has the explicit objective of sparking violent conflicts

she has a complete disregard for morals and doesn't shy away from human experimentation, with some fairly gruesome results

[worthy rose]

hmm, that "leader of an evil organization" starting to sound like it's from another game

[limpid agate]

Doomfist, Reaper and Moira are all leaders.

[winter olive]

Moira she is on the inner council so she is a trusted associate of talon. But not a full member as such

[worthy rose]

^what?

What do you mean not a full member?

[valid shell]

@winter olive ??

[worthy rose]

The fact she is on the inner council explicitly means she is a "full member"

[regal coyote]

actually it is MORE THAN a full member

[worthy rose]

it's like that owl all-pass

[winter olive]

She is a member of the inner council but she is not solely a talon member, she is sort of like Sanjay, who is part of the inner council but has links to other companies and organisations

[brisk harbor]

That doesn't mean they aren't a talon member

What

[winter olive]

Doesn’t matter, I’ve lost my train of thought now

[peak escarp]

I think all the Talon leaders have interests outside of Talon

Moira has Oasis
Sanjay has Vishkar
Doomfist has his family's business
Max has his casino
even Reaper has his personal vendetta against Overwatch

[winter olive]

Reapers personal vendetta has to be a story arc blizzard want to sort out if they’re going to progress with the story and potentially end the story

[peak escarp]

I'd like to see him clash more with new Overwatch

The museum fight was cool

[winter olive]

I feel like if they advance the story they will potentially either retire/kill older characters from lore. They have already said if someone dies in the lore they won’t be removed from the game. So it might be as the story progresses they kill off solder 76 and reaper to end their stories, then push for the new Overwatch team to take the spotlight

[dire timber]

I'd like Reaper to actually kill a named character

[tawny patio]

If they kill a character it’ll either have no impact on players or all the impact in the world tbh

Not in gameplay just in plot

[regal coyote]

they already confirmed even if lore kills someone they will not remove the character in game

cause people buying lotbox for swag on the character would riot and yeah

[tawny patio]

I
Know that...
I said not in gameplay

[winter olive]

Yeah, I don’t think Ana, Reinhardt and Torbjörn will die, they may make Ana and torb retire and Male Reinhardt turn into a tutor of new Overwatch recruits

[regal coyote]

i mean if i lose loot due to blizz i would ddos them motherfukers took, REVENGE is always needed

[tawny patio]

But like
In how it impacts people
It’ll either be an “oh”

Or a “WTF!?”

[winter olive]

Maybe a WTF

[regal coyote]

well, for most players they dont care much so there will be little impact

[tawny patio]

All depends on who they kill

[regal coyote]

not sure about rein or torb

but ana surely will not

she is loved and her story is not even finished

[tawny patio]

I don’t think I’d care if Rein died
But Ana would get me pretty feely

[regal coyote]

torb dont have story on it

and rein story is kinda done in a way

[tawny patio]

His main thing is Brig at this point

[regal coyote]

rein is loved, bit we also know rein would want it

[winter olive]

If Rein was to die, he’d sacrifice himself

[regal coyote]

i mean it is better for him to get a seat in valhall than die like a common pleb

[tawny patio]

If Rein were to die
I foresee him dying and having a similar talk with Brig like was had to him in the cinematics

[regal coyote]

in a way since there is brig he can say he has passed his title on so he can find his end

[tawny patio]

But Brig is also
V selfless already unlike young Rein

Which puts a bit of a dent there

[regal coyote]

maybe he would let brig shield others, and take brig's weapon

[winter olive]

Brig may join Overwatch in Reins place, being a more tanky part of the new Overwatch strike team led by tracer. Winston would be on comms

[regal coyote]

think about it, rein with his hammer in one hand and brig's chain in another

[winter olive]

Going out just like his leader

Can’t remember his name atm sorry

[tawny patio]

Tbh
Same

But yeah I could see Rein dying in order to tie Brig into new Overwatch ez

[winter olive]

It makes sense

Rein sacrificing to save brig and the others, one last noble fight for a war torn man

[tawny patio]

It also ties back to talks w Mercy or Ana about “you’re old Rein”

In game dialogues

[winter olive]

Yeah

[tawny patio]

Other than them
Reap and 76?

[winter olive]

For how blizzard will end their stories?

[valid shell]

I wonder if Doomfist still has a presence at his prosthetics company.

Considering he's been publicly in and out of prison.

...Am I imagining that his company was confirmed to be called Apex?

[winter olive]

Idk, I think they confirmed it in the atlas news article about his escape from prison? I’m not sure

[regal coyote]

pretty sure he still owns stocks though

maybe he is not the ceo not sure

but having stocks means influence

[valid shell]

He might just have a puppet CEO atm.

[regal coyote]

exactly my point

[winter olive]

A puppet CEO would make sense, since doomfist has a presence in talon he doesn’t want to put bad rep on a family company, so he gets someone to stand in while he does work with talon

[regal coyote]

and the apex would provide all his fisting needs at his pleasure

as well as R&D of talon toys

[winter olive]

What if his company provides the tech to make the current talon soldiers weapons. Or make newer generations of the assassin

[tawny patio]

Tbh

I don’t know that I feel Doomfist really believes in his ‘we evolve through conflict’ beliefs

But that could just be that it seems like an out there af thing for anyone to believe

But for a guy that ran a huge company...that’s rather....

[valid shell]

Keep in mind he didn't create said company. He inherited it.

And even though he was very successful at the helm, it bored him.

[winter olive]

He got bored and was already in talon, so he hired a puppet CEO to do as he says while doomfist helps run talon

[dire timber]

puppet CEO does sound likely

[winter olive]

The puppet CEO makes sense since doomfist is very busy starting a war as we see at the end of the masquerade comic

[dire timber]

not to mention him being a wanted criminal and all

[winter olive]

Yeah, his wanted criminal status would put the company under a lot of heat

[tawny patio]

Well...I mean and give away where you are a large chunk of the time

[somber sky]

So as realizing how bored I am I will attempt to start convos. Hammond's backstory is to lazy and sucks

[regal coyote]

lazy? how so

I thought his story is hinted waaay back when harizon is up, he is also to be seen as a tie-in with hammond's origin

lore is not equal to everyone

some ahve tons of lore, especially being a mascot or a main character

some are made to be little side characters at best in terms of lore, Orisa for example, is mostly a hype for doomfist and as a game mechanic

[valid shell]

@somber sky That's not really a conversation starter.

There's no substance there.

[limpid agate]

To bring something of substance into the conversation

Busan looks... Normal

[peak escarp]

as in, you expected it to be damaged from the colossal omnic?

[valid shell]

D.Va says as much in Eichenwalde.

[peak escarp]

the omnic attacks "every few years", so maybe it's been a while and they've had time to rebuild

or the stadium is inland and away from the areas that were damaged

Busan is quite large

[limpid agate]

There's no army like in Volskaya

No ruins like Eichenwalde

No chaos like Junkertown or damage like Route 66

Nothing. It's kind of underwhelming

[peak escarp]

did you expect much from a Lucioball map?

do any of the others have an interesting background?

[limpid agate]

Rio had a Vishkar structure

Sydney we already saw before

[peak escarp]

what's the bridge in the background of Busan stadium?

might be able to find its location if it's a real bridge

[rough oxide]

If it’s a bridge in Busan it might be 광안대교 (Gwangandaegyo)

Or Diamond Bridge

[peak escarp]

it does look like the first one

which would put the stadium right on the coast, which ruins my second theory

then again, Busan has a lot of coastline - we don't know where the omnic attacked

and geography in Overwatch maps does tend to be highly stylized

[brisk harbor]

Are Lucio ball maps canon

[rough oxide]

I see no reason why they wouldn’t be

Isn’t ayutthaya cannon?

[peak escarp]

I believe all the maps represent canon locations, and clues found on them are generally counted as canon

[regal coyote]

that said the maps are a concentrated version of the location, so things are usually much larger than those appear in the map\

[peak escarp]

yes

[regal coyote]

so yeah junkertown and kings row is much larger in reality

[peak escarp]

the exact geometry of the maps is exaggerated for gameplay's sake

[regal coyote]

but you dont want to play an hour long game dont you?

so yeah less streets, only landmarks are shown,e tc.

[peak escarp]

but the details of the maps - Genji's room on Nepal, Ana/Soldier's camp on Necropolis, Sombra's room on Castillo - are what matter lore-wise

[regal coyote]

On Busan while technically it is a big place, it is famous for beaches, especially the famous ones. (the non costal part is mostly farmland so they are unimportant)

So Busan is probably focused on the famous tourist/fuckers/lovers spots

[peak escarp]

the Busan map is a bit odd, since it's both coastal and has mountains

[regal coyote]

ALSO for maps the timeline is not always consistant, so one part of the map may be in recent days and another part may be in the past or of another date

[peak escarp]

yes

Numbani is a great example of this

[regal coyote]

If you have been to busan you can see mountains right next to the coast

[peak escarp]

the museum and the payload have been updated to show progression of time and a new exhibit for Efi

while the airport still shows the damage caused by Doomfist that preceded Orisa's creation

[regal coyote]

but the airport stays right after doomfist's visit

which is before efi acquire and necromancered orissa

[peak escarp]

so different parts of the Numbani map represent different points in the timeline

[regal coyote]

also maps do get updates from time to time, so the exact structure to a location might be different, like how the changes of the bananananaland in harizon

I am still unsure about blizzyland ... and how canon are the events there

I mean sure Blizz being the top entertainment industry in this universe makes sense, but why would ow be there.

or is it just a location to be shown off, for fun and meme and lore.

[peak escarp]

I don't think there's a specific mission for Blizzard World

[regal coyote]

also, still waitint for a dead jeff keplan stuffed and placed somewhere on the map for us to play with. I mean, if i remember right the real Disney's body is on display for quite a while.

[peak escarp]

but it is a place that exists in the OW universe

[regal coyote]

maybe

i would say similar things to holllywood but at least we know there might be an assassination mission included

the only thing i can think of that might be a lore incident of blizzyland is junkrat trying to steal some machimari with roadhog

[peak escarp]

considering the riots in Dorado, that power core might have needed an armed escort

[regal coyote]

yes that makes sense

that is also a map with different timeline in different location

the vault is kept at the time junkrat got their heist

[peak escarp]

oh right

[regal coyote]

we still need to fgure out why all those historical relic sights

himilayas makes sense since it is zen

but other than that there is something

[winter olive]

There could be a hidden object we haven’t seen yet. Something that would build on zenyattas lore and still progress the story

[peak escarp]

historical relic sights?

[winter olive]

The maps like Petra and ilios ruins

[peak escarp]

ah

I believe Athena mentions Talon activity on Ilios when you're in the dropship

they're looking for relics, probably to sell

if Petra is funded by Oasis like we suspected, then they could be after relics for research

same with Ayutthaya

[winter olive]

Or moira is using her position in oasis to fund the research so it’s easier for talon

[peak escarp]

there could be a Talon connection there

more information is needed about Petra and Hamid Faisal

I think the main aim with Talon searching for relics is to sell them

I'm not sure what else you'd do with relics aside from sell them or study them

[winter olive]

They could be collecting them, then auctioning them off but have a secret trade going on behind the scenes, using the relic auction as a cover

[regal coyote]

dont think they are making money off them

might be using it as front

they are collecting art yes

i mean talon are not savages they are learned fukers

[peak escarp]

what does that have to do with selling priceless relics on the black market for ridiculous amounts of money?

learned fuckers still want to make money

[winter olive]

They could always be keeping the money made from the auction as well as the black market items

[regal coyote]

i am saying sure they can be selling them for money

but unlikely they try to destroy them

also it might be a front for traffiking shit

[winter olive]

That’s what I’m saying, they use it as a cover/front and while everyone is there they have a secret trafficking/ black market deal going on behind the scenes

[nova elbow]

what was the cube from McCree's comic? they could be looking for more of those
are there any in-game interactions where Talon members express interest in Junkrat's treasure?

[worthy rose]

I know it's bending the rules, but I wanted to say a big thank you to @limpid agate for keeping the lore stuff pinned

[desert yacht]

Didn’t reaper have one?

No

Don’t think so

[nova elbow]

whatever happened to the lore blog thing? I thought they were going to do regular updates?

[regal coyote]

nope

never any regular updates

it is posted once in a while

also it is treated as in-unverse publications, so things might not be 100% exact facts

[crimson garnet]

Uuuuuhhhhh
Breadstick

[brisk harbor]

?

[worthy rose]

Who is this overwatch hero "soundquake"? The kid with a cast on the first cinematic says that he had chest missiles

[regal coyote]

just a namedrop

even doomfist was intended to be a namedrop

but fans love it so much it becomes real.

basically when it comes to Blizz, if fans scream about it enough it will exist in one form or another, the question is WHEN

[tawny patio]

Tbh I want to see the day the kid that sucker punched Widow becomes a character

[iron plume]

Soundquake is a concept from the planning stage

[umbral beacon]

True

[iron plume]

He partially became Reinhardt

It's in the trailer as a name drop for a potential opening and a reference to the concept

[tawny patio]

Soundquake
Sounds like a name for an attacc Lucio tbh

[umbral beacon]

Doomfist 0.5

[tawny patio]

Some sorta
Doomfist/Rein/Lucio

[peak escarp]

there was also Fusionator

as a namedrop

[frosty shell]

I can't remember any proof that Soundquake was Reinhardt's code name