i'm presuming it has already been decided one way or the other in the real OW universe and the game is like a recreation
#lore-discussion
olive karma
Ya, in a lot other other games I'm just saying the lore is some what connected. Not that this is bad. I love Overwatch and this makes it unique
iron plume
just assume good guys win unless stated otherwise
dire timber
well, we know that Numbani's gauntlet transport, Rialto's delivery, Winston's satellite drone setup, Route 66's weapon theft, Dorado core delivery and the like resulted in the payload reaching its destination, mostly cause there was no "defending" team to speak of
and Glitchbot probably reached his trailer too, with his bodyguards' escort
now, Junkertown, we know that this one failed
iron plume
that was a bullshit bug they reached checkpoint but door didn't open
but yeah we do
is Volskaya "retrofitted" to be Infiltration?
they move in from the same direction
iron plume
yeah
so if we consider that Volskaya's mission then it failed too
throwing sombra as usual
dire timber
Eichenwalde is probably the one payload map that simply doesn't happen
because really, there's no use storming an abandoned castle
iron plume
especially considering they move the goddamn ram inside because
reasons
as for use someone could be stealing Balderich's armor
dire timber
Reinhardt and Brigitte were just paying a visit
iron plume
yeah i'm not saying it'd be rein
dire timber
King's Row EMP is one big unknown
so far, not acknowledged anywhere
even if there was a stopped attempt, it'd be mentioned somewhere
so it simply didn't happen as of yet
iron plume
in-universe it would
but we don't have all the in-universe news
did Alive actually have any of mondatta's speech?
he could've brought it up
dire timber
nah
iron plume
if it was before then
dire timber
it definitely needs to happen after Mondatta's death
dire timber
the statue
it was built in honor of Mondatta, was it not?
nowhere to be seen in Alive
modern gale
regal coyote
sala hello
teal meadow
remember when jeff said there will be a character going to die in the lore?
what if it's winston? hammond could be faking his innocence. (wouldn't be the first time where a cute character is secretly evil)
peak escarp
the "cute character is secretly evil" trope is the worst
cunning ledge
@teal meadow literally when before has a cute character been secretly evil
timid eagle
I’ll be fine with the Hamster being Chaotic Neutral.
No need for him to be diabolically evil.
peak escarp
he seems to be motivated by a thirst for adventure
iron plume
@cunning ledge inb4 mei
peak escarp
I thought he'd say Mercy
cunning ledge
^
flat knot
mei should be evil and yeah
I mei could be so evil, she has the power to freeze and kill people and she already has somebody helping her, snowball
peak escarp
but her character is sweet and lacks self confidence and is curious about the world and loves science
none of that says evil
valid shell
@flat knot Gameplay =/= characterization.
flat knot
I’m kinda new here so sorry
valid shell
S'fine.
peak escarp
people on the forums are complaining that Hammond has no personality
fringe pewter
peak escarp
we've seen that he's clever, sneaky, curious, likes adventure, adapts well to new situations
and that's just in his origin trailer
also we've known him for less than 24 hours (and yet we know more about him than some heroes we've had for 2 years)
severe oxide
literally zero hammond lore wtf chu
worthy rose
we need to wait for the wrecking ball lore dlc
valid shell
@worthy rose Wuh?
iron plume
"clever, sneaky, curious, likes adventure, adapts well to new situations"
Aside from sneaky that could just be covered by "he's a hero in a video game"
peak escarp
That's what we were given
iron plume
And also like all of it is Tell Don't Show
we're told that he's all that by Harold
But little of it is in game
except for adapting arguably
worthy rose
He was smart enough to build an escape pod and had the mind to leave hlc
Meaning he probs didnt agree with simon
peak escarp
I've seen it said in a lot of places that Winston made Athena
Why do people think that?
iron plume
¯_(ツ)_/¯
peak escarp
Winston isn't a programmer or an AI expert like Efi
I imagine creating a sophisticated AI isn't easy
iron plume
AI more like series of if statements
peak escarp
Makes me wonder if Hammond made Wrecking Ball's AI, or if someone else did (maybe you can buy AI, like Siri or Google Home)
iron plume
but seriously it depends more on how "AI" it actually is
We haven't seen that much of athena
for all we know she could be a glorified alarm system
peak escarp
We've seen/heard her take actions that contradict orders (monitoring Winston's vitals after he told her not to)
Indication of free will
peak escarp
She has sensors of some kind, so she was able to recognize Reaper
regal coyote
we know Hammond talks through the Ball AI
we also know the Ball AI is some dumb fuk thing, as jeff said it is NOT omnic level
so chances are it is not a smart thing
at best it would be a lower pet level, probably even less
valid shell
I like how it's not smart, but it does have some AI.
Instead of saying "thanks", it says "he says thank you."
peak escarp
It has about as much AI as my phone
Which isn't saying it has none - most phones have some kind of helper AI (Siri/Cortana/etc)
I just mean it isn't at the same level as Athena or Anubis
worthy rose
What 'nationality' is max?
Could omnics even have a nationality if they are all born from the same place?
severe oxide
nationality isn't necessarily where you were born fyi
worthy rose
So was there any particular reason why russia england and australia are so prejudice against omnics?
regal coyote
not sure about england
Russian is justified cause they are AT WAR with them
Aussie cause the sussie government decide to give land to omnics as peace offering. Those ripped of their land should be pissed. and REVENGE IS A MUST
Though the ALF attacks on omnium eventually cause the whole Mad Max situation to appear due to the explosion and fallout (not the game)
valid shell
England has a pretty good reason.
regal coyote
Actually NOT SURE if the civilized aussie is against omnics
what is reason for england before null sector uprising though?
worthy rose
Brexit.
last inlet
joke
last inlet
that tho
worthy rose
Can someone explain to me why the junkers didn't think Hammond was an omnic
Cuz he never revealed himself to them
flint briar
perhaps they liked the sense of mystery. its good for entertainment value
valid shell
@worthy rose We don't know yet, but I like to think that since he's shown creating Wrecking Ball in Bruce's garage, Bruce vouched for him.
regal coyote
it is ok, i am sure the junkers know how to sniff out omnics and properly welcome them
limpid agate
It is worth mentioning, Omnics have very specific designs and models
And with omniums being shut down and all
Its kind of hard to make new models
Especially when it was literally made from garbage.
dire timber
@valid shell does England have a reason? they could've easily used King's Row Uprising as a reason for UK's treatment of omnics, but then they went go ahead and showed UK mistreating omnics even before that
pearl portal
oh wait that was bruces garage
dire timber
though maybe this just wasn't the first time Null Sector acted up
last inlet
Maybe they don't have a reason
limpid agate
It could just be
They didnt like Omnics because of the war
And as soon as they started to change their mind and give them a second chance
Null Sector happened
So they said fuck you again
last inlet
Yeah. People don't forget something like the war and the robots that were involved, especially just a couple years after it
severe oxide
D.Va's mech is similarly sized to Hammond's, and it fits a human well enough, so it wasn't impossible for Wrecking Ball to be housing a regular person, so they didn't question it
I mean, it's made from a repurposed escape pod, which itself was supposedly built human sized?
unless I'm mistaken
I need to rewatch the origin video
last inlet
Hammond is a pretty big hamster too. That pod must be bigger than some might think
valid shell
Makes me wonder why there were escape pods on a moon base.
severe oxide
yeah same
valid shell
Unless there was a docked shuttle (that the gorilla rebels probably wrecked to prevent the scientists from escaping).
severe oxide
or were those pods with other uses that winston repurposed
yeah a human can definitely fit inside https://puu.sh/AOaqq/0a1542f6d8.jpg
valid shell
severe oxide
that pod definitely isn't human sized
valid shell
The pod itself doesn't look human-sized.
severe oxide
but the overall mech is, if you don't know how it's made inside
severe oxide
do you think there's a futuristic energy barrier preventing air from escaping the launch bay
otherwise winston and hammond wouldn't be that comfortable hanging in the vacuum
oh yeah there is one I see it
for some reason the image you posted doesn't have it, while the video does
in the video the outside is even an ominous red
valid shell
Blizzard has added stuff to Nesskain's still before.
limpid agate
Does Nesskain do all the Origin shorts?
Other than Doomfist of course
He created Brig, he did Moiras, he did Hammonds, might have done Orisas or Anas
Sombras was animated so not him
cunning ledge
@severe oxide i'll relay your message to karahe
wild knoll
karahe stopped existing here
cunning ledge
yeah
pearl portal
Hammond is 14 and hamsters live for 3 years so something ain't match up
wild knoll
genetic engineering m8
pearl portal
how do you exactly genetically make a animal live longer
cunning ledge
are you trying to apply real life science to sci-fi genetic modification
pearl portal
yes
cunning ledge
if science can turn a man into a shadow monster abomination, then science can also make a hamster larger and live longer
pearl portal
ok you got me there
whole steeple
its his big brain that makes him invicible. he is super smart and doesnt fear death so death fears him
game theory
cunning ledge
i'd be surprised if we aren't at least close to making a hamster live longer in real life
just give it genes from a similar animal that lives longer, or something?
i'm not a professional biologist ok
whole steeple
i dont think that would work so eaisly...
peak escarp
People were panicking because the average gorilla lives 30 years and Winston is 29
wild knoll
McHanzo is canon
peak escarp
But he's genetically modified too, so his life span is probably more like a humans
wild knoll
no reaction from the good doctor 😦
cunning ledge
go back to shitpost server pls
peak escarp
Shitposting will result in loss of access
peak escarp
Also I was ignoring you because I know you're just saying it to provoke me
limpid agate
@wild knoll Final warning
wild knoll
this is like my first time talking in this server
rain arrow
Gonna be your last at this rate XD
pearl portal
o
pearl portal
they gon
timid eagle
My guess it's the other test subjects that have caused the broken window before Winston was ready to head to college.
valid shell
@timid eagle College?
lone latch
Lore?
prisma wren
Yea what about lore?
hasty surge
It seems that Hammond's pod rolled in some random ally
But in the origin video it landed in junker town
timid eagle
Yeah, it wouldn't be too surprising that his Lunar Colony and Junkertown apperances will be skins.
valid shell
?
Why would he have a Lunar Colony Wrecking Ball?
He'll have a Scrapyard skin and a noncanon silly skin.
timid eagle
Because we saw him as such in the trailer?
At the very least, we can see that skin for next year's lore event.
valid shell
Hammond's a two-piece hero.
Sure, we saw him in his Horizon onesie, but his escape pod is like
1/4 the size of his mech.
timid eagle
I know.
But I think it would be cool.
ANYWAY, I'm looking forward to see what interactions Hammy has with the cast.
covert oyster
As am I, especially with Winston.
Like, are they buddies, or did they end on a bad note?
peak escarp
I expect there to be interactions with Winston (shared experience), Junkrat (Scrapyard fan), D.Va (fellow mech pilot) and Moira (interest in genetic therapy)
covert oyster
Oh shit yeah all those too.
peak escarp
according to Jeff, Winston and Hammond got along but were not best buds, and Winston doesn't know that Hammond made it to Earth yet
covert oyster
As a Junkrat main secondly, I would very much not mind geeking over the hamster.
peak escarp
maybe Roadhog is an unexpected Wrecking Ball fan
covert oyster
Actually considering just how often Junkrat likes to remind everyone that he has a disdain for omnics, and perhaps to an extent all robots, he may be slightly skeptical, whilst roadhog quietly, or even comically loudly adores Wrecking Ball.
peak escarp
you can actually see Junkrat in the crowd in Hammond's origin trailer, when the Queen is giving him the crown
covert oyster
Alright in that case I do wonder roadhog's opinions then.
Actually, I wouldn't much doubt roadhog being a frequent competitor in the Scrapyard, but I'ven't done any research on that.
covert oyster
My lack of research is palpable, I didn't piece together that scrapyard probably constitutes being just bots.
covert oyster
Hol' up. D.Va outright has a Junker skin with flavor text mentioning Junkertown.
Maybe not canon, but felt it worth mentioning.
peak escarp
yeah
hasty surge
How is it possible for him to get materials in junkertown and build his mech
Yet not be noticed
covert oyster
Have you ever owned a hamster?
wet spruce
so i like how winston recalled a bunch of overwatch heroes, and the only heroes to answer the call post game launch (tracer, torb, etc...) is Ana... we are 7 new heroes in and only one of them is OG overwatch lol
wet spruce
yeah i guess you could say technically she didnt even
because shes shrike in the lore
peak escarp
so far Tracer, Mei and Reinhardt have answered
with Genji and Torbjorn unconfirmed but very likely
Reinhardt will probably bring in Brigitte, and Torbjorn most likely brings in Bastion
which brings New-Overwatch to a roster of 4-8 people
wet spruce
im not against non OW heroes being added but it just seems weird that 2 years later, lore wise, we havent gotten any new "Overwatch" heroes
peak escarp
the lore is working on the assumption that they have 10+ years to tell it
wet spruce
and with junker queen being the favorite right now for the next hero
peak escarp
of course it's going to be slow
wet spruce
i just think it would be a novel idea to add an overwatch hero to the game called overwatch 😛
limpid agate
We have gotten new "Overwatch" heroes
peak escarp
I agree, it would be nice to get more heroes who are former Overwatch
limpid agate
Its just
valid shell
They like just added Moira tho.
peak escarp
yeah
wet spruce
i mean to have answered the recall
valid shell
Eh, I'd rather we didn't have everyone all meet in one room so soon.
peak escarp
Brigitte kinda fills the niche of an Overwatch "new recruit"
wet spruce
but shes talon
wet spruce
i dont though
wet spruce
the very original thing i said was original overwatch people who answered recall
wet spruce
who?
valid shell
Reinhardt and Mei.
peak escarp
I see what he's getting at
wet spruce
are you being difficult on purpose lol?
limpid agate
Im confused too
valid shell
So you want a new hero, who used to be in Overwatch, who is rejoining Overwatch?
wet spruce
yes
valid shell
Then why not say that.
valid shell
Apparently not clearly enough, when both me and Jewvia were confuse.
Anyways.
I wouldn't mind that either, honestly.
pure kernel
*coughs* Rein
valid shell
We haven't gotten an ex. Overwatch (non-Blackwatch) since Ana, and not one who's still on the straight and narrow.
wet spruce
and there was dozens of heroes who flash on the screen during the short
granted i fully understand most of those will never appear
urban folio
I thought Hammond was meant to be the bad guy
peak escarp
fingers crossed for Mirembe joining the roster some day
wet spruce
a bad guy in what sense?
you mean pre-reveal?
because with the announcement he is very clearly not a bad guy
valid shell
Everyone thought he was the anti-Winston and with Talon.
Completely baseless, of course.
peak escarp
a lot of people thought Hammond led the ape revolt on the moon
urban folio
Yeah exactly lol
valid shell
Because 'Simon' and 'Hammond' look similar.
wet spruce
oh weird. i never thought that that would ever be a thing
peak escarp
even though that was never said
valid shell
People believe things when sensationalist European youtubers scream them over "HAMMOND = DOOMFIST????" thumbnails.
urban folio
Tbh Hammond evil monkey tank would be cool
valid shell
As long as you're being honest.
urban folio
At least Ali-A doesn't play Overwatch
peak escarp
you can say Stylosa, it's okay
valid shell
So you wanted Hammond to be the Moira to Winston's Mercy?
wet spruce
i was hoping hammond would have been a little monkey with some kind of static wallclimb that let him hang onw alls or ceilings stationarily. i guess with his hook he can technically do that though lol
urban folio
Yeah binge lol
valid shell
That's boring tho.
Just a palette swap of Winston with a flamethrower instead of a tesla cannon is boring.
urban folio
But muh Evil monkey 😦
wet spruce
Minston
valid shell
Wait until Simon is playable for your evil monkey.
peak escarp
have Susan be the ringleader after all
Here's something that's been bothering me
it's a common assumption that Winston created Athena
but where did people get that idea?
Winston isn't a programmer - if anything, he's an engineer
peak escarp
this is similar to the idea of Mercy creating Genji's cyborg body
it's outside their known skillset
urban folio
Didn't ana use mercy technology and make the biotic rifle herself?
How did a sniper engineer her own biotic rifle lol
peak escarp
Torbjorn used Mercy's technology to make a rifle for Ana
urban folio
Oh ok
limpid agate
Ana just stole it
valid shell
@peak escarp @limpid agate We know that Torbjorn created the blueprint, but did he actually build it against Mercy's wishes?
Or did Ana just build it herself using his schematic?
timid eagle
Yeah, like with Soldier stealing that prototype rifle and visor, Ana had stolen that rifle and, while on the run, had to make the grenades and sleep darts on her own time.
peak escarp
she agreed to let him use it, then changed his mind when she saw the gun
I assume he actually made it, or else Ana stole the blueprints and found someone to make it for her
urban folio
Is everything that heals based on Mercy's technology?
pure kernel
What kind of security firm is Helix
peak escarp
not a very good one apparently
pure kernel
Gets weapons stolen twice
limpid agate
By two of the highest ranking Overwatch members of all time
timid eagle
Yeah, when it comes down to it, it's very blatant that Helix Security is pretty incompetent.
urban folio
Did soldier steal Helix Rockets from them?
peak escarp
and they were the ones holding Doomfist
timid eagle
When Solder was teased during the beta, they revealed a lot of info in a news report of a middle aged man attacking Helix soldiers and stealing an Overwatch prototype assault rifle and visor.
urban folio
So the rifle is special because it can fire Helix rockets?
limpid agate
Also pulse munitions
valid shell
And it's probably too hefty for a conventional human to carry.
urban folio
Soldier carries an unlimited amount of munitions
limpid agate
Gameplay != Lore
What makes it unique is the Helix missiles
And the pulse munitions
It doesnt fire bullets
urban folio
Isn’t McCree revolver also shooting the same things?
spring pumice
Lore question: Just how highly esteemed of an engineer is Torbjorn considered to be?
peak escarp
he was probably one of the top in his field back in the day, but currently, people don't even recognize him
although they do know him by name
spring pumice
If Torbjorn is such a highly esteemed "Master Engineer", why are other characters like Mei and Pharah so hesitant to let him look at their robot/armor?
He knows how to make heat seeking missles that never miss (Molten Core Turret), but Pharah won't let him look at her armor and weapon mechanisms, what if he could give her perfect missles, or even just better efficientcy from her booster pack?
peak escarp
he also helped make the Bastion units, which were the ground troops in a war that cost untold casualties
maybe they're afraid of his reputation?
although Pharah's response seems more like she doesn't like his aesthetic
spring pumice
Those machines worked properly didn't they? Wasn't it a hack or something that made them all go haywire?
peak escarp
Torbjorn: You know Fareeha, I could take a look at fixing up your suit if you'd like.
Pharah: And mess it up with a bunch of scrap metal bolted on the side? No thanks. I like it the way it is.
she doesn't like his designs
spring pumice
That feels like a pretty hurtful thing to say to him.
And kinda superficial.
Hey Pharah I can make rockets never miss.
-Naw fam, it'll look funny.
Is Pharah this dense?
peak escarp
she's probably also teasing him because she has known him since she was a kid
valid shell
Pharah and Brigitte were likely playmates.
Unless Pharah spent a lot of time in Canada.
spring pumice
Pharah and Brigitte as playmates...
NSFW intensifies.
spring pumice
For clarity sake, a playmate was the name given to models who posed for playboy magazine.
spring pumice
I pictured the pair in attractive Bunny outfits.
peak escarp
ew
spring pumice
OK OK, no fun zone. I am serious though, Torb was at one time THE most esteemed Engineer in the OW universe. The Omnic Crisis was not a result of any bad design or machine failure on his part, and people close to him would certaintly know that, so it's odd to me that everybody is so hesitant to let him examine or improve their equipment.
I'd understand if he like went off the deep end or had a breakdown at some point, but to my knowledge that didn't happen. He's regretful that some of his designs were taken advantage of, but he never went through anything soul crushing, like where he stopped tinkering or failed to make things that worked. By alll accounts he should be legitimate, especially among people close to him.
Heck he is/was the chief engineer for Overwatch, but outside of himself and Brigitte nobody actually uses things he built.
peak escarp
they say that because it's funny
spring pumice
The man can design a weapon system that fires ammunition and rockets that never miss, but the operation he is Chief Engineer for is using inaccurate weapons. Why can't Pharah's rockets or S:76 rifle for example use the same tech?
spring pumice
Level 3 Turret has precision rockets.
spring pumice
but I know gameplay not= lore.
I'm just saying, he is chief engineer, but very few members of Overwatch use things he engineered.
peak escarp
he made Ana's rifle
limpid agate
Reaper
McCree
Genji
Moira
Theres Blackwatch
Among them we have
Mysterious Shotguns
A special revolver from a special gunsmith
Cyborg body potentially made by Torb
Moira made her own gear from Mercy's Research
If we look at the core team, we have
Rein, who uses Torb's armor
Mercy, who makes her own tech
Winston, who makes his own tech
Tracer, Winston made her tech
Soldier 76, uses Torbs guns
Ana, uses Torb's gun with Mercy's tech
Mei, who makes her own tech
valid shell
Brigitte by extension also benefits from Torb's creations.
spring pumice
The Heavy Pulse Rifle S76 uses was made by Torb? I thought he stole it.
valid shell
It's an Overwatch prototype from Watchpoint: Grand Mesa.
spring pumice
Ahh OK I'm more cool with that then. That was the one that was really bugging.
Still think the other memebers are bit oddly hesitant about letting him try to study or improve their stuff.
limpid agate
With the exception of McCree and Reaper
Everyone uses Overwatch tech
Either made by themselves
Or from other Overwatch members
spring pumice
Pharah Jumpsuit isn't a torb creation.
Mei's stuff is her own.
D.Va Mech is Korean government.
spring pumice
Those could all totally be improved on.
limpid agate
And Mei is Overwatch and made her own gear
spring pumice
They aren't in it but they join later and he's still there.
limpid agate
They havent joined yet
And if they do
Torb isn't Chief Engineer anymore
He would be a renegade vigilante
Along with the rest
peak escarp
also Pharah's gear is made by Helix
spring pumice
The other odd thing about it is that I do admit Torbs stuff looks a little janky/outdated. It's kinda clunky looking, and while it functions superbly, it also wobbles back and forth even when it's at full health.
limpid agate
So.
spring pumice
I was wandering if there was like a "he didn't keep up with the times" or "lost his touch" sort of thing.
valid shell
Go watch a slow motion clip of the AK-47 in action, the most prevalent firearm in the world.
It also looks clunky, it wobbles, it's all sharp edges and hard corners and cheap materials.
spring pumice
The AK is supper easy to make, obtain, maintain, and holds up well under pressure, but it is also highly inaccurate compared to other weapons, like the M16.
valid shell
Then it's a perfect parallel to Torbjorn's tech.
spring pumice
but I think we will go off topic if we go down that trail.
Torbs stuff works. Yup.
limpid agate
Look at Talon
They could just give everyone better guns
Better, more expensive guns
Make an army of pulse rifle goons
Instead of shitty AR goons
valid shell
I absolutely love how the Talon Trooper guns look though.
I would dig a hero with this aesthetic.
Instead of just Doomfist/Sombra costumes.
spring pumice
@valid shell If the player icon means anything. Someday Maximillian might satisfy your desire.
valid shell
That actually lessens the possibility of him being playable in my eyes.
limpid agate
It pushes him more into not gonna happen
spring pumice
I thought he was black red and white like that.
valid shell
Just black and red, mostly.
spring pumice
I think we will see Maximillian at some point, he's a pretty cool character concept IMO (I like how he looks).
spring pumice
Shrugs* time will tell. I got low batts thanks for the clarity guys.
worthy rose
Maybe thats the T rating in effect
regal coyote
as far as engineering goes, it is different styles
Torby is the rustic looking things, loud but functions greatly, with clunky looks.
regal coyote
Korean tech is sleak looking state of the art so far
cunning ledge
And the rounds in the chamber are glowy because future???
regal coyote
Junker tech functions ok i guess, but seem a bit inaccurate
cunning ledge
Like
His bullets even do the cliche richochet sound when they hit a wall
They're definitely not energy shots
regal coyote
Winston tech is wonderful but experimental
sombra tech is... well it is good but also it is stolen thigns so yeah.
urban cairn
Хто
valid shell
@urban cairn ?
urban cairn
@valid shell what ?)
valid shell
What does Хто mean?
urban cairn
Хто - Why
iron plume
that's not what it means and it's off topic and not allowed on server either way
cobalt cipher
Хто means "who"
zinc bough
drowsy epoch
Don’t sass me
covert oyster
That is the best name, and the best voiceline.
limpid agate
It was built by a legendary gunsmith, and fires custom high-caliber ammunition with technological enhancements
The Peacekeeper
The ammo is custom made, its not just plain bullets
Hammond, Bastion, Sombra, and Widowmaker are the only ones who shoot plain bullets
I am never gonna call him Wrecking Ball.
cunning ledge
They're not plain bullets but they are ballistic rather than energy
limpid agate
Yes
The new roster order is messing me up, but...
DVa, Soldier, and Tracer are the only pure energy hitscan heroes
Hammond, Bastion, Sombra and Widow are the only pure ballistic
McCree is somewhere in the middle
I forgot Reaper. His is ballistic.
cunning ledge
I like to imagine McCree fires "regular" pointy bullets but there's some form of more advanced propulsion system between the rounds and the gun
Which explains the classic richochet sounds and also why there are glowy bits all over it
regal coyote
are we talking gameplay or lore
D.Va have missiles so i wont call it purely hitscan
cunning ledge
missiles are likely noncanon as they were added for a gameplay reason and also take up the defense matrix animations, which is canon
cunning ledge
symmetra can literally do anything with the hard light
so you can't really define it like that
iron plume
in-game there's also beam and spray
which work like hitscan and projectile respectively except for limited range and being undeflectable/matrixable
and symm's light is very clearly beam
although presumably the projectile ball she does is the same "substance"
limpid agate
I was just talking about heroes that use traditional-ish weapons.
Shit like assault rifles, pistols, shotguns
Which are hitscan guns
For game purposes
Not some technically hitscan beams, or technically projectile sprays
I chose the wrong word
But Im not gonna say bullet because shotguns dont shoot bullets
What would you rather I say?
Present day styled arms that use present day styled ammunition?
Is a MEKA present day styled arms?
Is a Peacekeeper?
regal coyote
physical projectiles
limpid agate
Then you get Doomfist's pellets, you get Roadhog's scrap, Junkrat's grenades, Pharah's rockets
etc
regal coyote
kinetic projectiles
limpid agate
Scrap is a kinetic projectile
regal coyote
that would be for weapons that files a mass that would cause damage by impact
in a way mass drivers
iron plume
Does ballistic ammo not work?
regal coyote
well think about it scrap gun is basically the original concept of shotgun, think old school blunderbuss
limpid agate
Bullets/Shells/Slugs:
Hammond, Bastion, Doomfist, McCree, Reaper, Sombra, Widowmaker
Energy based bullet/shell/slug replacement:
DVa, Orisa, Soldier, Tracer, Mercy
Melee:
Reinhardt, Brigitte
Alternative physical projectile:
Roadhog, Genji, Hanzo, Mei, Torbjorn, Ana*
Alternative energy based weapon:
Winston, Zarya, Symmetra, Lucio, Zenyatta
Explosives:
Junkrat, Pharah
Biological weapon:
Ana*, Moira
iron plume
fair
limpid agate
Im just looking at weapons
Not all the abiltieis
Then you have
Helix missiles
Flashbangs
Micro Missiles
Doomfist punches
Etc
Just look at the main weapon and nothing else
iron plume
How does Widow's weapon work? Are SMG rounds and sniper rounds supposed to be different things?
cunning ledge
Because her shells in-game and the good look at one of her sniper rounds in Alive certainly suggests that
Also yeah that text in the top left
iron plume
so same bullets, okay
urban folio
Tesla Cannon is the worst invention ever, I’m disappointed Winston could only create a weapon that does 3 damage per tick
cobalt cipher
I was thinking about "why did you assume Soldier fires energy instead of regular bullets". Then I understood. No bullet shells
lean silo
also, "pulse munitions" is in one of his voice lines
limpid agate
@urban folio Gameplay != Lore.
Its a decently strong weapon
Watch Winston's short or Doomfist's anime. It does decent work of Reaper, and can do more than just shoot sparks
plush rampart
so does hammond continously spin or does he have a gryoscrope type design in the middle of his mech?
lean silo
Hammond is most likely encased in an inner gyroscopic chamber like a rollcage
valid shell
@plush rampart If you watch his origin video, his escape pod is suspended in his mech.
hasty surge
I heard from somewhere that Ex Top Gear Presenter is nicknamed Richard Hammond the Hamster
I guess it is a shout out to him
urban folio
Lol height shaming Richard Hammond feelsbad
last inlet
the hamster Hammond "pun" doesn't seem that hard to come up with tbh
peak escarp
I don't think it's related
hasty surge
Hmm did jewvia said before hand he was a hamster?
peak escarp
he suggested it as a possibility
I consistently tried to argue the simian angle
I'm still mad about a hamster being a subject in an ape research group
valid shell
@hasty surge Jewvia said he was something smaller than a monkey.
A mouse/rat/rabbit were thrown around, being popular lab animals.
limpid agate
Other animals I mentioned were cat (because of Jetpack cat) and octopus (because someone on another server was quite fond of that idea. I never cared for it).
I dont believe I explicitly said Hamster, but to be fair, I forgot they existed
peak escarp
an ordinary hamster didn't come to mind because they're tiny
limpid agate
On the topic of Wrecking Ball being the AI of an undead monkey
peak escarp
at least cats/rabbits would be visible on the character model
limpid agate
And on the topic of user HamsterMilk being correct on something
Are my only mentions of Hamster before Hammond was revealed
valid shell
Hammond could just have easily have been any small mammal, at the cost of some of the puns, like Hammond and The Champion.
Oh, and the whole 'hamster in a ball' thing.
limpid agate
In the dev talks on Seagulls stream
peak escarp
we should have paid more attention to the puns
limpid agate
They said that at one point
They put a Hamster in Wrecking Ball, and loved it
That moment was not when they decided to create the hero
It was around the time of Jetpack Cat
So Hammond was planned at least as long
As a hamster in a big ball mech
Named Wrecking Ball
All the lore we have of him now can be seen in game since Junkertown
So there is one thing to take from this
I have no clue how Blizzard can keep consistent clues for a character that may never become a hero, but cant keep track simple things in comics.
peak escarp
I think it's just a lack of quality control
limpid agate
Its like Moira in Oasis. They do have teasers for heroes throughout the game
Even things we havent seen yet
And most of them could easily never become heroes
peak escarp
they won't make sense until we see the hero
limpid agate
They probably have hundreds of heroes sitting around
Literally just waiting for their time
peak escarp
it is fun to get a new hero and suddenly things make sense
like Reaper/Sombra's interaction about Moira in Oasis
limpid agate
Im not giving the okay to go tinfoil and look at every potential hero in the game. The 4 month teaser rule is still valid after every single postlaunch hero.
But
It is worth mentioning that there is a load of random shit in maps we dismissed now
That could become a thing later
Before June, there were 3 mentions of Wrecking Ball in this serve.
And all of them are me incorrectly saying its the Queen's mech
icy ridge
What's good everyone
limpid agate
Probably because I missed the word "former" when they said the Queen was former champion
valid shell
@icy ridge Wrecking Ball.
limpid agate
And didnt catch that until Binge so explicitly wrote it
icy ridge
Hurd did we get a date
icy ridge
Ik not this week
peak escarp
do you expect we'll get a comic with Wrecking Ball's release?
we got one for Ana and Doomfist, so there's an established pattern
although those two heroes were arguably more important to the story of Overwatch
limpid agate
The only pattern there is July hero
If you want another pattern
2 > 1 > 0
For quantity of comics
peak escarp
you can't count this year as part of the pattern
and it takes more than two data points to form a pattern
limpid agate
Exactly
peak escarp
so I'm wrong too
limpid agate
Both patterns are equally likely
Before someone calls me out, I know 2 > 1 > 0 is not a real pattern, Im just trying to say that July hero getting a comic isnt necessarily gonna happen
limpid agate
The only thing thats consistent is release schedules for major things (heroes, shorts). Minor things (maps, comics) are far less consistent.
peak escarp
so far we've only had one deviation of the map-LNY-hero-Archives-anniversary-map-hero-Summer Games-map-Halloween-hero-Winter pattern
and that was getting Rialto a month early
limpid agate
Yup, it was still in that sequence
peak escarp
so the order of things is still consistant
but the time window for releases got bigger
or less predictable
limpid agate
🤷
At least the heroes themselves should still be predictable
Every hero is teased within 4 months before their reveal. This is what Brigitte and Hammond told us. Makes Ana less of an exception too, thanks to We Are Overwatch.
peak escarp
what does Ana have to do with We Are Overwatch?
limpid agate
She was in it
peak escarp
no she wasn't
peak escarp
Are you with us?
peak escarp
ah
she was also in Soldier: 76's origin trailer
I still think it's hilarious that "Are You With Us?" is canonically the message Winston sent out with the Recall
recording errors and line flubs included
valid shell
And his cringy Dreamworks raised eyebrow.
regal coyote
on the hamster in whacking ball develipment hint in seagull
there is more
Along with these development side note is that the tether was originally not part of this hamster ball thing, but fromanother character
there was mention of some magnetism related hero which was supposed to have that tether physics
but whatever it is it means overwatch had lots of out of this world concepts.
So indeed it is mroe like a hero comic.
worthy rose
Still dont have a guy that can cling to walls
worthy rose
Did genji originally intend to kill hanzo in the dragons short?
cunning ledge
Definitely not
He fights defensively up until the point he overpowers hanzo but then lets him live
cunning ledge
Hanzo on the other hand was trying his hardest to kill Genji
Even after “only a shimada can control the dragons” he didn’t give up completely
obtuse geyser
Genji too cool for school
dry path
@obtuse geyser buddy if Genji were to cool for school then he'd be retarded
obtuse geyser
True
regal coyote
not really yhough, shimada rich enough to be homeschooled
cunning ledge
This is the lore channel.
sonic geyser
Yea i know you didint let me finish
cunning ledge
Neither of those statements are lore related
sonic geyser
Just wait
My question is how hammond out lived his kinds average age by around 12 years while he was living under difficult conditions like living in junkertown
novel quarry
Because he's genetically enhanced or something
He's obviously not a regular hamster
He's way bigger than an average hamster too
The real question is why cant he talk like winston
and the answer is so his robot can have a badass voice
cunning ledge
Hamsters don't have the vocal chords that humans and apes do
He's obviously intelligent enough but physically can't due to his biology
novel quarry
ahh
I see!
Wait, wait, hold on
hedgehogs dont have the same vocal cords as humans, but sonic the hedgehog can still talk
mmm
Sounds like Hammonds lying to me
cunning ledge
serious discussion here please
novel quarry
Sorry
regal coyote
granted though, hammond can surely easily do his own voice in a smll device like a phone rather than the giant mech
short scaffold
@lost linden Read the channel description. Shitposting will result in a loss of access
lost linden
O k
timid eagle
Yeah, Hammond is a teddy bear-sized hamster, which is bloody huge.
Then again, they needed the character to be big enough for visibility, as a regular hamster will be tough to hit.
frosty shell
Also, Winston is larger than the average gorilla
Also Hammond can't talk probably because his voice box is too small/wasn't engineered for speech
It seems that Winston once used lexigrams to communicate, so maybe he needed surgery to be able to speak?
Also, how does Widow reload in lore?
In "Alive" it seems like she must've reloaded once
short scaffold
in game reloads are most likely canon
frosty shell
In game she pulls her bullets out of nowhere
I once tried counting every hero to see how many bullets they have on them
frosty shell
I estimated that McCree has about 76 rounds on him I remember
cunning ledge
I doubt blizzard was thinking about that when designing the characters and cinematics
short scaffold
reloading is also something that it's best not to look too far into
frosty shell
I have heard that supposedly Bastions were reloaded via drones during the Crisis
But I don't know what the official source for this is
frosty shell
It makes sense, though
frosty shell
My guess is that Junkat keeps his ammo, traps, and mines in his sidecar
I've heard that the MEKA drones were cut off from base, not hacked
So why didn't they try autonomous drones?
If they weren't hacked
Also, it seems strange to me that human pilots are still necessary
My best guess is that people are too afraid that their planes will turn against them after the Omnic Crisis happened
cunning ledge
<@&397922982632226816>
twilit raptor
@opaque grove Stop the shitposting
short scaffold
modmail pls
cunning ledge
o sorry
limpid agate
Moving swiftly onwards
short scaffold
all good lol. Non urgent issue and all that
cunning ledge
nah that's a genuine actual discussion that happens fairly regularly
ebon laurel
Ooo
dire timber
that being said, it doesn't make sense
cunning ledge
but it does tho
regal coyote
the thing is, the weird guns out of nowhere thing from reaper is actually somewhat canon at least from the russia incident
no we talking about shitposting and the material is deleted
as for reloading with drones and what not... well for war time there may be supply units
but that does not apply to our bastion
dire timber
we don't have any firm lore explanation on Reaper's guns
but the one idea I have is that once Reaper throws away the shotguns, they turn to smoke
coincidentally, some of the ammo clip on his person turn to smoke as well
then, when the shotguns materialize again, they materialize with these ammo clip inside
still pretty nonsensical
but at least less nonsensical than Reaper being a literal gun factory
worthy rose
I think it's funny that Hammond has more lore behind him than D.Va.
I think there should be an animated short that has Hammond and Hana fighting each other in a mech battle in Junkertown, which may give D.Va SOME form of lore: that she learned to use mechas in Junkertown before joining MEKA.
Yes it is because of her Junker skin.
cunning ledge
W-why though
teal meadow
this would explain why she has a junker skin
peak escarp
She's able to pilot her mech because of her gaming background
Most skins are non canon
Roadhog/Torbjorn/Ana/Junkrat were never pirates
Reaper was never a mariachi player
worthy rose
Why not have it be canon?
teal meadow
roadhog used the pirate skin for disguise, if you saw the junkertown cinematic
torbjorn/ana = halloween
junkrat is an annyversary skin and only those are not canon to the lore
worthy rose
D.Va could have used her gaming skills to try out a less sophisticated mech to train herself how to use one, and then she could be noticed by MEKA and enlisted into it.
Also, regarding Reaper's Mariachi skin, no, he was not a mariachi player, but yes, he dressed up as one in a canon comic.
peak escarp
When?
He dressed as the Red Death in Masquerade
Every other appearance was his classic skin
valid shell
@worthy rose We can't just decide for skins to be canon.
worthy rose
Of course we can't decide which skins are canon. It's just wishful thinking on my part.
frosty shell
If Reaper's clothes can turn into smoke, I don't think it's that far-fetched that his guns could, as well
Maybe Talon could do a raid on the MEKA facility?
That would tie D.Va in to the rest of the lore
But I have no idea why they'd do that
valid shell
Exactly.
There's no reason why they'd do that.
Talon is pretty securely funded, and nothing suggests that MEKA has any secret technology.
We've only seen Talon heisting information (Helix firewalls, Overwatch databanks in Recall) and one-of-a-kind items (Train Hopper, Doomfist gauntlet, etc.)
D.Va's best chance to become relevant is for her to finally destroy the Omnic Kaiju (preferably in a short) and then join Winston's Overwatch.
cunning ledge
@worthy rose When did Reaper dress up as a mariachi player?
worthy rose
Masquerade
cunning ledge
Nope
It's not even close
He was dressed up as the Red Death as another Poe reference
cunning ledge
thanks
worthy rose
Gotcha
teal meadow
he has a mariachi skin because he is mexican
valid shell
@teal meadow He's American.
regal coyote
@peak escarp Ana was a pirate though, and it canon
limpid agate
Yeah the pirates was a bad example
regal coyote
She dressed upa s pirate in that Halloween event, the same night where rein tells his story of junkenstein.
limpid agate
The Ana and Roadhog skins are both canon
peak escarp
I forgot about that
limpid agate
You might have forgotten because of how inconspicuous it was.
regal coyote
and recolors are just recolors
i mean, regular people dont dress the same every day
regal coyote
so a good sample of non canon thing would be stuff like the starcraft skins for widow
detail is not important
in this case
mostly comic styles
like how roadhog lost his tattoo every christmas
cunning ledge
seriously dude?
valid shell
Shitposting will result in loss of access.
teal meadow
it's not shitposting, it's true lol
teal meadow
what?
valid shell
He was in the American Military.
limpid agate
He's American. He's from LA.
dire timber
@teal meadow he's born and raised in LA
valid shell
I propose you "look it up".
dire timber
he's Latino, but he's American
worthy rose
AKA Latino American
dire timber
yea
limpid agate
He's as American as Jennifer Lopez or
teal meadow
still
limpid agate
Theres no still
He isnt Mexican
If youre gonna say "He has Mexican roots"
Can you prove they are Mexican and not
Colombian
Chilean
Venuzuealan
Ecuador
Peru
Argentina
dire timber
don't you know that Hispanic brown people are automatically Mexican
valid shell
This is probably a side-effect of tumblr drawing him exclusively eating tacos and sporting sugar skull sleeve tattoos.
teal meadow
are you going to shitpost intead?
worthy rose
Ok so general question regarding Tracer's chrino trigger thing. From what I've gathered it was to control her travelling powers after an accident.
valid shell
@worthy rose Chrono Trigger? What?
worthy rose
Her blinking and recalling, are they time based?
cunning ledge
Yes
limpid agate
Yes
worthy rose
I forgot the name of the device 
dire timber
she was "desynched" from the time flow
limpid agate
The Chronal harness anchors her to time
dire timber
the chronal accelerator keeps her anchored
limpid agate
Otherwise she blinks in and out of time
It also lets her control her own flow of time
worthy rose
so it was never like time travel, it was just not synced to our time
limpid agate
She isnt going to the past or future. She just rewinds herself or moves herself forwards
dire timber
but that's pretty much it
worthy rose
ok that makes sense
valid shell
The Chronal Accelerator is like a faucet on a pipe. It can stop Tracer from blinking forwards and backwards in her timeline, but also allows her to control the flow in small increments.
worthy rose
Also, Ana's sleep darts (to my knowledge) aren't exactly well received by Mercy. Was there an explanation as to why? I assume because of it's offensive nature from gameplay but I'd rather ask since some gameplay isnt canon
dire timber
not sleep darts
worthy rose
i mean healing darts
dire timber
but the poison ammo in her rifle
worthy rose
and @valid shell alright makes sense, thanks
dire timber
healing darts aren't an issue
poison darts are
the poison darts are exactly what Mercy was worried about
dire timber
imagine how she felt when she found out Overwatch hired Moira - definitely contributed to her disillusion with Overwatch
valid shell
Mercy's biotics reconstruct organic material, and I'm sure it only takes a small tweak to make those same biotics disassemble the tissue instead.
Which is what Ana and Moira do.
worthy rose
I do remember Mercy saying something about it in the gear up before fighting areas. Would she have been OK with Brigitte "weaponizing" herself to be able to fight in battle? Weaponizing probably isnt the right term but fight in general. I assume Mercy would rather Brig not fight at all.
valid shell
Mercy's a pacifist, but she's not an idiot.
She understands that combat happens, which is why she's a field medic, and not just a hospital doctor.
dire timber
she doesn't like Rein dragging Brigitte into his adventures
but that's a different matter
worthy rose
From the intro video it seemed like Brigitte made the choice on her own, and Rein only helped train to protect. If there was a comic or something else that showed otherwise I'm unfamiliar.
dire timber
if she heard about Brigitte taking up arms, she'd probably sigh and say something about Rein's tales of glory getting into Brigitte's head
valid shell
She'd probably approve of Pharah more, since she's in an official international firm, and not just wandering Greenland in a van with no money.
dire timber
yep
I mean, she's probably not super excited about Helix, but at least it's a career of some sort
worthy rose
Speaking of Ana, I assume she refuses to fix her eye for personal reasons. I remember Ana speaking to Mercy in game regarding it and (im probably remembering wrong, its been a while since Ana was meta) Ana saying she wanted to keep it as a reminde
dire timber
she didn't really have the opportunity to fix it
after all, as far as the public is concerned, Ana Amari is dead
but that interaction indicates that even if she had the opportunity, she wouldn't be particularly interested
like she said, she sees it as a good reminder
valid shell
I do like how Ana still fires right-handed, but cants the rifle to aim through her left eye.
Real nice touch to differentiate her from Widowmaker's rigid spine-breaking stance.
dire timber
I wish she didn't do this while her Captain Amari skin is equipped
worthy rose
Still waiting... forever... for any substantial lucio lore...
valid shell
You and me both.
dire timber
well
recently we learned that his father worked for Vishkar, and created their sonic tech
worthy rose
I know there is some recent thing regarding his father working on the tech and him telling sym something like "If you knew where it came from..."
dire timber
that amounts for something
worthy rose
but i mean like huge back stories that jack and ana have
dire timber
oh, Symmetra knows
Lúcio: Vishkar's using you, just like they used my father. You just wait. You'll see.
Symmetra: Your father was a Vishkar employee. He understood our company's vision. A shame he never educated you.
worthy rose
I want to see interaction between him and his father, how he fought Vishkar, his ride to fame with his album, etc
From what I remember Efi is a fan of Lucio's music
dire timber
I think there's more pressing matters than that
worthy rose
Yeah I know 
worthy rose
I just love playing Lucio the most. In scrims and in GM no one really cares about the lore but I've played Lucio so much that I love his overall wholesomeness towards others and I wanna see how he was able to develop that mentality even through all the shit thats going on
dire timber
So far, I'm holding out for:
- Pharah animated short in Temple of Anubis (possibly reuniting with Ana)
- Zenyatta animated short (begins with Zen arguing with Mondatta in Nepal, leaving the Shambali, meeting Genji, defeating him when Genji attacks him, and taking him in as a student at the end)
- Symmetra animated short (with Sanjay and Lucio in it)
- Mercy anything
- D.va anything
worthy rose
If anything I'd love to see some Moira background, from a time when she wasn't so cold blooded.
if it did exist
worthy rose
When it comes to Lore, I find complicated and conflicting ideals the most enjoyable. Someone who is an asshole now shown as a kind and caring person before but had an event happen tied to their current mission. Not clear cut good/bad people.
dire timber
@valid shell that's make much more sense
valid shell
Because "isn't it funni how this big manly man likes a girly thing" is a tired trope, and Brigitte being a D.Va fan is fun characterization.
dire timber
so much more sense
worthy rose
It's why Soldier's short is still my favorite.
worthy rose
Wouldnt they be the same age
dire timber
didn't make that connection before
valid shell
We've already got Roadhog for our obligatory 'big guy likes cute things'.
dire timber
Roadhog's makes sense tbh
like, Pachimari is common mascot
it's super easy to encounter one
but Reinhardt having an interest in video game streams?
that feels a bit off-beat
worthy rose
itd be better the other way around, like lucio liking reins music
limpid agate
but Reinhardt having an interest in video game streams