exotic vapor
ok we got it
#lore-discussion
cunning ledge
eh
could just be making a joke
especially if the reality is a bad memory
like, ahem, if it was deadlock
all that line confirms is that it was post overwatch
worthy rose
yeah maybe he lost it in an accident
and maybe that's why he uses his normal arm for shooting
worthy rose
well we haven't gotten any more information on deadlock
cunning ledge
what do you mean by "and maybe that's why he uses his normal arm for shooting"
he used the same arms for the same things when he still had both arms
worthy rose
well it's just a stretch
cunning ledge
???
worthy rose
extrapolation
cunning ledge
what
valid shell
@exotic vapor McCree was obviously joking.
But this confirms he lost it after fucking off from Overwatch.
valid shell
It's hardly a pressing plot point.
Not like McCree has some kind of "UUHHNN AM I MAN OR MACHINE" complex.
dire timber
@exotic vapor that's definitely not what happened
especially since he said the exact opposite in Retribution
dense estuary
McCree is probably due to an accident that he has a robo arm. Symmetra, For all we know all hard light architects need a mechanical appendage.
But what it does show is such technology is very accessible.
peak escarp
even Junkrat can get a prosthetic arm with as much dexterity as a flesh hand
cedar galleon
I know Ive asked this before but I don't think I ever got a clear answer
Dfs lore says he lost his arm in the aftermath of the crisis
But he still has both in the Venice comic
Is he missing an arm or not
cunning ledge
remember that he has very, very realistic prosthetics
peak escarp
he has a high-tech prosthetic that can pass for real
cunning ledge
his right arm is entirely robotic
but you can only tell because it has those parts which are black
(you know what i mean)
cedar galleon
Ah
peak escarp
they wouldn't give him a power arm in prison, but it might be inhumane to deprive him of any prosthetic at all (or maybe it's a permanently-attached prosthetic that's more like an implant)
cunning ledge
Vishkar Symmetra also has a robot arm
cedar galleon
So he has a robot arm, like junk and mccree but it passes as real
cunning ledge
but it's basically impossible to tell because it just looks like a gloved regular arm
which is probably the point
cedar galleon
Im sure it has those those lines like the ones on his face
cunning ledge
also
cedar galleon
Which also means that part of his face are metal too?
cunning ledge
his right arm was purpose built to use the gauntlet
peak escarp
probably neural interfacing for his arm?
cunning ledge
well
it's not like he has metal skin
but it indicates that there are under the skin augs
same as on his chest and legs
peak escarp
could just be part of the Overwatch design aesthetic
cunning ledge
that too, yes
also Antonio
Doomfist is probably the most heavily cybernetically modified character
ignoring Genji, of course
iron plume
sombra?
dire timber
his right arm looked pretty fleshy in the origin short, btw
iron plume
on her head too
iron plume
I'd argue that and the spine is more than an arm
dense estuary
how much of Moria is modification vs just stuff she wears
cunning ledge
Doomfist has an entire arm as well as augs on his other arm, head, face, chest, and legs
iron plume
well with Sombra I'd say it's implied that she has a straight up brain interface
Doomfist just has very advanced prosthetics
dense estuary
for all we know augmentation is just plain common in Overwatch and even McCree was not due to an accident.
cunning ledge
isn't it heavily implied that doomfist also has some sort of neural interfacing with the gauntlet anyway
iron plume
hm, maybe
cunning ledge
there's the thing going into the back of his neck
and on the Formal skin, there's even a lil plate there because the fist doesn't extend that far
dense estuary
deliberate augmentation is not an uncommon theme in some near future scifi.
regal coyote
actually augmentation is super common in overwatch.
it is jsut that most are only limbs and some organs, and genji's case is quite extensive
dense estuary
Genji is the full robocop
but that is because like Murphy his body had extensive damage.
regal coyote
but unlike murphy he at least keep some limb and most importantly his "lower part"
harsh flax
how do u kno that
valid shell
@harsh flax Chu.
silk berry
Hi to alls
valid shell
@silk berry Yo.
peak escarp
No shitposting
merry ether
can sombra see her body when she's invisible (in lore)?
maybe she can because of her "modifications"
valid shell
@merry ether Probably! If her eyes aren't cybernetic, then her brain augmentations probably still keep her aware of where her body is subconsciously.
worthy rose
and she's probably have a holographic projector field with her tech
lean prawn
sombra knows where her body is the same way you know where your arm after you close your eyes and wave it around
peak escarp
Fun fact: that's called proprioception
The sense of where your body is in space and how much effort it takes to move
dense estuary
the old "so dark you cannot see your hand in front of your face" yet you still know your hand is in front of your face.
ivory sphinx
no-one needs to look at his/her legs to walk...
late gyro
how does genji double jump huh? checkmate lore community
ivory sphinx
he uses mlg ninja skillz
ivory sphinx
what is unexpainable however, is how moira walks in-game
valid shell
@late gyro Check the bottoms of his feet.
These could be thrusters, or some other kind of propulsion that he can use to boost himself.
@ivory sphinx And what do you mean?
late gyro
i mean its a stretch
worthy rose
,l
late gyro
but i'll accept it
valid shell
Sure, it's a stretch. But it's better than 'ecks dee its magic rofl'.
late gyro
NARUTOOOOOOOOOO
valid shell
Again, you still haven't actually explained what you find weird about it.
ivory sphinx
GENJIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
valid shell
You can only get so far on "u kno what i mean XD".
late gyro
just watch it, its kinda obvious
ivory sphinx
^^
ivory sphinx
have u ever seen moira walk?
late gyro
how do you not know how she moves?
ivory sphinx
EVERYTHING...
valid shell
Again, you haven't used any words except 'look at it lol'.
late gyro
just do tho
valid shell
Let me help you: is it how she moves her legs? Her arms? Is her posture weird?
late gyro
how long have you played the game
you shouldve noticed it by now
hell its in her damn trailer
valid shell
You two aren't actually saying anything.
You understand that, right.
You just keep reiterating "i mean have u SEEN it XD".
Actually try to describe what looks off about it to you.
ivory sphinx
ivory sphinx
then how on earth do u not find it weird?
valid shell
You do realize you can't share your opinion by saying "I mean, you did see the movie, right?"
"Then why don't you agree with me?"
That's not how conversations work.
ivory sphinx
u r literally the only person that doent find it weird
late gyro
lmao
valid shell
You're right.
I don't find it weird.
Which is why now you need to actually be an adult and explain your position.
late gyro
ahahahahahahahahaha
you are literally the only one who doesnt find it either weird or funny
valid shell
And because I don't subscribe to the groupthink, that makes me incorrect?
ivory sphinx
i didnt say that
valid shell
Then please - explain what looks weird about it.
ivory sphinx
but u r askin us to explain smtn that u cant rly explain
valid shell
Then this is a nonconversation, and I recommend we change the topic.
late gyro
lmao
valid shell
<@&397922982632226816>
floral herald
Cease the shitposting
worldly flax
@ivory sphinx any more racist comments and you'll be muted or banned
ivory sphinx
hows that racist?
worldly flax
late gyro
we arent shitposting
late gyro
and we aren't being racist
valid shell
Either way, the culinary practices of another country have nothing to do with Overwatch lore.
Which makes it shitposting.
worldly flax
it is a racist stereotype
valid shell
Should I copy and paste what I just said?
worldly flax
yes you did @late gyro
terse oak
We're not here to argue semantics, comply or lose access
late gyro
what did i say??
worldly flax
the racism warning wasn't for you. which is why i didn't @ you. the person it was at is now muted. bring the convo back to lore so the mods can go back to taking naps
terse oak
dawn canopy
That's not relevant
late gyro
sigh
valid shell
ty
late gyro
literally no idea
most birds have a life span of 2 - 5 years
Bastion (and by extension Ganymede) was announced with the game in november 2014
meaning Ganymede is about 4 - 5 years old
hes gonna die
ivory sphinx
sadlife
bastion would have an even harder time dealing with his robo-ptsd
hopefully mercy can save ganymede's life
dire timber
@late gyro real life time flow is not the same as in-universe time flow
late gyro
well we dont know
late gyro
there is nothing anywhere telling us how old the bird is
how are we ever meant to know
dire timber
actually, it seems that The Last Bastion took place during the Golden Age of Overwatch
late gyro
we dont know that
dire timber
which is 10-5 years ago
uh, we do. there was an official timeline.
I'm thinking that the current Ganymede isn't really the same Ganymede
late gyro
if it was 10 - 5 years ago the bird would be dead
dire timber
remember the eggs?
ivory sphinx
ganymede might alrdy be dead
is talon pro-omnic or anti-omnic?
they killed mondatta, but maybe their intention was to martyr him and strengthen his message, or just to cause a war
late gyro
neither
they just wanna start a war
yeah, mondatta was a big peace figure so his assassination isnt very surprising
well it's DF's goal to start a war
apparently he's not the big boss of Talon, only a higher member of the coucil
ivory sphinx
what official stuff backs that up?
late gyro
when DF was announced he is said to be a member of the Talon council
idk if there is someone even higher in Talon
but from what i know he isnt the big boss
ivory sphinx
there might not be a big boss
valid shell
There's no "big boss" of Talon.
It's run by a council, likely explicitly so none of them become too powerful.
ivory sphinx
but, from what missions happen, it seems like doomfist has more power than the rest
valid shell
See how Doomfist killed Vialli because he overreached?
late gyro
hes pretty much the big boss in a way
valid shell
And Doomfist doesn't have any more power than the other, he's just the most outspoken.
Remember: Nobody knows who Reaper is, or what Moira/Sanjay are up to in the shadows, but Doomfist is public.
Everyone knows his real name and what he's done.
late gyro
sombra knows, but well, she knows everything
valid shell
When I say nobody, I mean nobody outside of Talon.
ivory sphinx
ana knows who reaper is
valid shell
She does now.
late gyro
literally any info someone may not know, sombra knows it
late gyro
I mean she knows that Genji's nickname is sparrow
late gyro
she knows almost EVERYTHING
late gyro
except how to get a good gun
valid shell
Torbjorn's mother gave birth to him in Sweden.
Would you like to hear more about things we already know?
Anyways, as far as the world knows, Gabriel Reyes is dead and in the ground.
ivory sphinx
how wld she kno genji's nickname tho?
valid shell
Only Akande, Moira, Sombra, Ana, and Jack know his identity.
ivory sphinx
are we sure talon knows about reaper's identity?
late gyro
sombra does
ivory sphinx
he might not have told them
valid shell
?
ivory sphinx
how do we kno sombra does? in-game voicelines?
ivory sphinx
moira ye
valid shell
She comments on his condition.
late gyro
@ivory sphinx she says "hey gabe, I can call you that right?"
ivory sphinx
k
late gyro
moira was in blackwatch with him
late gyro
she gave him his powers
valid shell
That's what I just said.
ivory sphinx
moira def knows
valid shell
That's not even negotiable. It's pretty explicit.
ivory sphinx
ah so talon knows about jack and ana
valid shell
Yes.
Again: Akande, Moira, Sombra, Jack, and Ana know that Reaper is Reyes.
McCree doesn't currently know, because he hasn't canonically run into Reaper, but it's confirmed that he would know immediately.
ivory sphinx
unless ana didnt tell jack and he doesnt kno by another way, but that seems unlikely
valid shell
Truly? No.
Doomfist wants to perpetuate conflict to make humanity stronger, Moira wants to advance science, Sanjay wants to improve world infristructure, Antonio/Vialli/Akinjide just want to make money.
None of those things are EVIL evil, they just go about them the wrong way.
ivory sphinx
and reaper? and sombra?
valid shell
Sombra just wants to uncover who's running the world.
And there's a reason I left Reaper last, because he's the only one who doesn't seem to have understandable motivations.
But 1/5 isn't bad.
ivory sphinx
there are theories that reaper became evil due to moira or smtn
but i dont think so
moira just wants to science
late gyro
Maximillian wants to make money i guess
also Reaper's goal is mainly to destroy overwatch once and for all
we don't know why tho
cunning ledge
Doomfist has a pretty decent quote in response to a Symmetra interaction
"Order, chaos. Means to an end."
ivory sphinx
reyes was kinda retarded in venice
"lets see, i cld silently strangle him or i cld shoot him and every1 in venice will kno overwatch killed antonio bartiladi"
cunning ledge
That's why I like the theory that what Moira did to him was affecting his judgement
ivory sphinx
his judgment i can believe
but not his "evilness"
some people think that raises the question of why reyes accepted to be experimented with, but reyes probbaly trusted moira
faint stirrup
does anyone know where i can go to read all the comics?
ivory sphinx
select a hero thats in the comic
and then in the media of that hero it has the comic
cunning ledge
@faint stirrup check the pins in this discord channel
literally everything is there
faint stirrup
thx
cunning ledge
all of them have animated versions apart from the latest one
cunning ledge
of course someone asks the lore person when the goddamn symmetra rework comes out
god dammit blizzard forums
regal coyote
We should from now on use the term Tekhartha Chu
worthy rose
I think reaper just stays with talon because he can't do anything other than doing the things within it
and because his condition he can never return to his normal life
I think widow's case is the same, but she's trying to find a way to revert her condition (which could be a lost cause)
Widowmaker was a project to make an asaassin who was always calm, so they made a sniper who had a really low heart rate, which causes her to be super calm and breathe slowly, and have a slow pulse, therefor making her skin blue
but she stays because she can't do anything other than staying with talon because of her condition
cunning ledge
@worthy rose correct
worthy rose
she cannot return to her normal life so she stays where she can do the things that she can do
@worthy rose right, but during her transformation was mind was warped to follow orders and carry them out flawlessly so she could not leave talon and return to her old life because of her transformation and her new appearance
Same goes for reaper
sturdy fable
Kinda like how you’re made to follow orders after being originally tricked into doing so but you can’t change your mind
lean silo
tbh i think reaper just hates everyone
ivory sphinx
reaper and widow cld go back to a normal life just like genji can
widow is brainwashed tho
reaper im not sure about
maybe he just stays with moira cuz he trusts her or smtn?
dire timber
Reaper seems to have a vendetta against Overwatch, but we don't know much else
ivory sphinx
ye, and why did he revolt against them?
raven tiger
worthy rose
no shotposting
gloomy barn
#reaperdidnothingwrong
valid shell
@gloomy barn Shitposting will result in loss of access.
gloomy barn
how is that shitpost?
dire timber
it very much is
gloomy barn
lol k
valid shell
@gloomy barn How is posting a le epic hashtag in the lore channel not a shitpost?
gloomy barn
le epic, yikes
i was referring to the fact that on rialto i dont think reaper did anything wrong
All he did was tarnish overwatch's squeaky clean guise
dire timber
um
it was pretty much a shitpost
but if you want to talk about what Reyes has done wrong
then let's start
the way Reyes began was with good intentions
but in Venice, that involved an assassination
gloomy barn
but overwatch had an entire squadron dedicated to things like this, this wasn't their first mission black watch existed before this
all reaper did during that mission was bring things to light, this doesnt make him a bad guy. His later actions are a bit harder to defend
dire timber
yeah, but you seem to act like Reyes has no personal responsibility for Blackwatch activity
gloomy barn
That was not my point at all
dire timber
while he was easily the one most eager to take part in it
gloomy barn
My point was Rialto wasnt their first mission, missions like that took place before but Jack and the rest of overwatch didn't have a problem with it then only when the public knew of black watch's existence
Hell mercy was on black watch's medical team, doesn't make her a bad guy/gal
dire timber
the thing is, Retribution was meant to be a "snatch and grab" mission
um, Mercy wasn't on Blackwatch medical team
gloomy barn
she was
dire timber
not sure where you got that from
gloomy barn
she brought genji back
valid shell
What.
gloomy barn
in a blackwatch experiment
valid shell
What.
dire timber
... you got it all messed up
valid shell
Blackwatch is part of Overwatch, not the opposite.
gloomy barn
in one of the comics genji is in
dire timber
let's recap what happened with Genji
gloomy barn
a tube like thing in black
valid shell
Genji was stabilized by Overwatch and assigned to the Blackwatch division.
gloomy barn
watch headquarters and mercy is overseeing him
valid shell
That doesn't mean Mercy was in Blackwatch.
You're very confused.
Moira was Blackwatch's resident field medic.
gloomy barn
ok, i like talking about lore but you guys are being very condescending
valid shell
Not Mercy.
dire timber
Genji was born as one of the two sons to Sojiro Shimada
gloomy barn
but it is discord so I guess that is to be expected
dire timber
at first, he was a playboy, with little interest in Shimada Clan's illegal business
valid shell
Forgive us for being curt when you open discussion with #omniclivesmatter
And pretend it's a serious post.
gloomy barn
I know genjis past
valid shell
Genji has never been in a 'tube like thing in Blackwatch HQ with Mercy overseeing him'.
Dunno what fanart you saw.
dire timber
anyhow, with Sojiro's passing, Shimada elders pressured Hanzo was pressured into confronting Genji
the confrontation turned a swordfight, leaving Genji on the brink of death
Overwatch had set up surveillance on the Shimada Castle
gloomy barn
Sorry internet without
dire timber
Genji was extracted and brought to Dr. Angela Ziegler
gloomy barn
*went out
dire timber
also known as Mercy
dire timber
that's when Mercy stabilized him - he was left with legs and right arm
gloomy barn
It was fan art that I saw of mercy and genji
valid shell
Yup.
gloomy barn
But this is all a side track to my point
valid shell
What was your point?
gloomy barn
Black watch was only considered evil when the public learned of it
dire timber
well, yeah
if you found out that UN security council had a black ops division, caught carrying out an assassination
it'd be one hell of a controversy
gloomy barn
So all reaper did was UNINTENTIONALLY bring this to light
dire timber
yeah
steel current
Especially since they had ex-criminals
dire timber
not "Reaper" yet
valid shell
While Blackwatch was always illegal and somewhat indulgent, before Retribution, the members of Blackwatch believed that they were justified in everything they had done, and it sounds like Jack supported that.
dire timber
his name's Reyes
gloomy barn
Ik
valid shell
Retribution was the first instance of it overstepping.
dire timber
but yeah, Blackwatch's mission statement was "doing what's necessary to protect the world, no matter what"
gloomy barn
I wouldn’t say the first time, just the first time it went public
dire timber
well-intentioned, though extremely illegal
valid shell
From Retribution's dialogue, especially McCree, Retribution seems to unique.
Even before it went public.
I seriously doubt that Reyes had done anything as drastic and mission-altering as chunking an extraction target with a shotgun.
Before Antonio.
gloomy barn
I don’t think all of black watch’s mission were play by play successful I’m positive they would have had to improvise before (not calling Reyes blasting him with a shot gun improvising)
dire timber
well, Genji did slaughter some guards
gloomy barn
I’m sure they have slipped up before but never have they had a shoot out in the middle of a city like that
dire timber
and he did comment that Blackwatch had to kill before
valid shell
We have an instance of a Blackwatch mission gone wrong, Cape Town, mentioned in the Retribution comic.
And McCree joked about it.
So a very different tone from Retribution.
Of course they've had issues, but Reyes killing Antonio is explicitly a very unique instance.
gloomy barn
What I’m trying to say is that it’s not so black and white, Reyes did kill him when that wasn’t the plan. But he did also kill a terrorist who just attacked an overwatch facility. (Who was just bragging about how he will get away with and bring down blackwatch) Jack the commander of overwatch gave blackwatch the go ahead to invade Italy illegally
I know it’s not a 1 to 1 comparison this is very similar to the Osama bin laden Seal team 6 situation
valid shell
Wew.
gloomy barn
They went to capture an official without the approval of the government
dire timber
that's not an invasion
dense estuary
it was an unauthorized blackops
gloomy barn
Ok, what about the rest of what I said
If I’m coming of as an ass that’s not my intention
Just genuinely want to discuss the lore
dire timber
I'm not sure, really
Jack was giving Reyes too much leeway
he was corrupt, in the sense that he would let his friend get away with everything
gloomy barn
Or do anything for justice
gloomy barn
Talking bout Reyes
gloomy barn
He did what he thought was right
dire timber
yep
keeping the world safe, no matter what
with the "no natter what" part heavily emphasized
ivory sphinx
gabriel isnt evil tho
imo what he shldve done in venice is... kill antonio, but not with shotguns, in a more assasination type of way so no-one wld find out bout blackwatch
gloomy barn
^^^^
ivory sphinx
i assume bartiladi was quite a hated man as he was corrupt, so an assassination wldnt be that surprising to the world
gloomy barn
and he committed a terrorist attack right before the events of retribution
ivory sphinx
ye but was that clearly connected to him?
ivory sphinx
if overwatch knows he did it, the entire world doesnt necessarily kno it
ivory sphinx
how do we know that? he might've secretly been a member of talon
knotty apex
yeah i duno y talon wuld hire
the guy who killed their boss
unless its still a mystery who reaper is
cuz gabriel reyes is supposed to be dead
supposably
ivory sphinx
bartiladi wasnt their leader
ivory sphinx
upload to imgur and send link
knotty apex
i thought the whole thing was since bartiladi died
alot of other members culd rise up
to be leader
like doomfist
gloomy barn
just a 'high ranking level player in talon'
yeah but he himself wasnt he was probably a few step below the top
knotty apex
tbh y dey didnt just have genji
kill antonio
so dey culdve just left
other than reaper was intentionally sabotaging the mission
dire timber
@ivory sphinx no official investigation was conducted into Antonio
presenting evidence of connection to Talon after being caught carrying out an assassination would be seen as an excuse
knotty apex
gabriel definitely is a villian
dire timber
@knotty apex it would be out of character for Reyes to have deliberately sabotaged anything at that point.
gloomy barn
not at this point
knotty apex
dude was definitely salty
gloomy barn
right now he is anti-hero
knotty apex
ever since jack was commander
dire timber
he's definitely not a villain at the time of Retribution
just on his way to becoming one
ivory sphinx
he was pissed by what antonio said
knotty apex
just culdve had genji do it
ivory sphinx
antonio fkn provoked him
knotty apex
den hes just stupid
gloomy barn
besides the fact he was a terrorist that was most likely going to get away with it?
knotty apex
totally culdve silently killed him
dire timber
an impulsive decision made out of anger
knotty apex
and left with no evidence
gloomy barn
besides the trail of dead talon agents in his mansion?
ivory sphinx
everyone makes mistakes, reyes made a massive one in venice that day
dire timber
a leading theory is that Moira's experiments affected his impulse control
gloomy barn
i think they did
knotty apex
or even know black watch was a thing
ivory sphinx
i think thats quite an interesting theory @dire timber
gloomy barn
was it confirmed that moira gave reaper wraith?
knotty apex
so yeah he has wraith form
ivory sphinx
basically
gloomy barn
thats my head canon that her experiments corrupted reaper over time
knotty apex
i duno y moira doesnt give everyone wraith form
knotty apex
cuz she prbly wants to
and i think everyone in talon
wuld want the ability to be invincible
gloomy barn
at what cost?
knotty apex
Fade pretty much the best ability in OW
gloomy barn
look what its done to reaper
knotty apex
its perfectly fine for her
gloomy barn
and moira isnt to stable her self
gloomy barn
I mean the effect on Gabe are pretty noticeable
his cells are constantly dying and regenerating at a rapid speed
gloomy barn
debatable
dire timber
@knotty apex Reyes was fine with Jack being the Strike Commander, by the way
it was actually a better arrangement for him
ivory sphinx
not completely
dire timber
Jack handled all the public relations stuff, all the paperwork
gloomy barn
he never wanted to be leader
knotty apex
isnt literally the point of the story
dire timber
while Reyes could do his thing in the background
gloomy barn
he wanted it that way
gloomy barn
impulse
knotty apex
i mean wasnt the plan basically to just capture antonio
and den reyes is like ur rite
dire timber
@knotty apex nope
gloomy barn
that's what makes overwatch story interesting, they tell us one thing only to expand/change what we know in a couple months
dire timber
we don't actually know what made Reyes and Jack clash in Switzerland
but it was not about the position of Strike Commander, not really
gloomy barn
Overwatch's story isn't black and white
ivory sphinx
gloomy barn
characters have depth to them
ivory sphinx
mccree wanted antonio dead
gloomy barn
which is strange based on his reaction in retribution
ivory sphinx
no
gloomy barn
yeah yeah i know the plan
ivory sphinx
mccree didnt wanna blast him with shotguns, i assume
gloomy barn
but he said it didn't feel right killing antonio
ivory sphinx
i assume mccree also wanted to secretly assassinate him
gloomy barn
his character flip flops so much
ivory sphinx
reyes cldve also secretly abducted antonio
ivory sphinx
mccree is cool
gloomy barn
yeah, but we are running in a circle now
we were talking about how he could be considered good/anti-hero
knotty apex
ow is actually horrible
its a game basically balanced around competitive mode
and their lore will never be completed
gloomy barn
well
knotty apex
we got junkrat finding a treasure or someshit
theres an omnium hiding around asia
deres the dum god ais
we got reaper killing ow operatives
gloomy barn
It's would be hard to end a story with playable characters without story mode
I mean say for instance tracer dies in the story
how would you portray that in game
knotty apex
we havent actually gotten any new story
gloomy barn
also keep in mind it's only been out for 2 years
knotty apex
its just stories of wat happened in past
knotty apex
of wat we already knew
knotty apex
sombra just tells us that theres a conspiracy
woah so new
brigitte just like lol im with reinhardt
doomfist is just hello im doomfist
the guy we kept mentioning
ivory sphinx
doomfist brough a lot of other new story
gloomy barn
you are purposely over simplifying this
to prove a point
leaving out a ton of details
knotty apex
so we learn
doomfist was in prison
cuz he was a bad guy
and as soon as he gets out he was a talon guy
gloomy barn
strike 1
ivory sphinx
there'll eventually be a movie i assume
gloomy barn
'a bad guy'
knotty apex
den he beats up a rich guy
ivory sphinx
doomfist was in talon b4 he was in prison
gloomy barn
He was the head of an international terror organization
knotty apex
cuz hes like talon is too cool for u
gloomy barn
not just some bad guy
ivory sphinx
he had outside help from reaper
gloomy barn
and a semi robotic arm
knotty apex
its so lame
that reaper and soldiers bios
are all unknown
when the reader
already knows
gloomy barn
we didnt know who reaper was at the time
peak escarp
Doomfist's release progressed the story
Masquerade happened after Recall and Infiltration
knotty apex
i mean its like making a comic
where mccree rides a train
yeah its lore
but it doesnt mean anything
and dey actually made a comic
where hes just riding a train
peak escarp
How does it not mean anything?
peak escarp
We learned things from it that we didn't know before
gloomy barn
well to be fair I don't think story is the most important thing in a competitive fps
knotty apex
we learned talon really wants this mysterious box
and we will never hear about it
ever again
peak escarp
Like that many ex-blackwatch went to Talon after the fall
We got to see McCree's personality
And maybe that purple box will turn up again
knotty apex
watch that purple box
gloomy barn
just becuase it doesnt develop a story line doesnt make it pointless
knotty apex
be like
the mega omnic god
and den 😱
woah that totally makes the story more interesting
likes like showing a spoon at the start of a movie
gloomy barn
fun guy to discuss lore with
peak escarp
Here's an example: rosebud
dire timber
shitposting will result in loss of access
gloomy barn
me?
peak escarp
From Citizen Cane
ivory sphinx
what proves masquerade happened after recall?
peak escarp
It's a clue given at the start of the movie that doesn't make sense until the end
knotty apex
the lore more exists as context to why the characters are in the game
rather than actually story telling
peak escarp
In Masquerade Reaper mentions getting part of the Overwatch agent database
Which happened in Recall
dire timber
@knotty apex characters are allowed to make poorly thought-out decisions
sorry, my internet is going bonkers
ivory sphinx
oh ye
gloomy barn
Give the story time to develop
ivory sphinx
how did i not ntoice
peak escarp
Blizzard is used to doing things long term
gloomy barn
^
They need to flesh out all of their characters so people arent just shoved into the plot
knotty apex
lol also dey already retconning
gloomy barn
?
sly yarrow
What maps have any significance in terms of deaths? I know Eichenwalde and Watchpoint: Antarctica but that's all.
peak escarp
If this was a movie, We'd still be in the opening exposition
gloomy barn
^^^^^^^^^^^^
sly yarrow
Oh, yeah. Mondatta.
gloomy barn
what have they retconned?
knotty apex
hanamura is where genji got his ass whooped
gloomy barn
that was just fan fic
dire timber
@knotty apex uh, not a starcraft pro
peak escarp
Retcons: Mei inventing the cryochambers and being found frozen, DVa being a Starcraft pro
gloomy barn
all they said was she was a pro gamer
dire timber
she's still known to have play starcraft
knotty apex
lol dey definitely said she was a starcraft player
gloomy barn
yeah she is
knotty apex
then they removed all mentions of it
dire timber
but it's just not her main game
peak escarp
Mercy's age got retconned
knotty apex
and said it was a lie
gloomy barn
just not a star craft pro
peak escarp
She was 32 at release, got changed to 37
knotty apex
dey just stopped replying
gloomy barn
uuuuuh
no
they said she played star craft then fans said she was a pro sc player but they clarified she only played it wasnt a pro
dire timber
@knotty apex again, D.va is canonically known to have played Starcraft, Chu just clarified that Starcraft wasn't the game that made her famous
peak escarp
I think that was everything that got retconned?
knotty apex
he literally says
its a misconception
she was a pro
den in her bio it said
she was a pro
peak escarp
Not actually that many things got retconned
knotty apex
so lol
gloomy barn
nothing story warping was retconned
dire timber
indeed, she's a Starcraft player, but not a Starcraft pro
gloomy barn
tiny insignificant things
knotty apex
it sed her journey starts
dire timber
she is a pro for a different game
dire timber
her biography does not mention Starcraft
peak escarp
Voice lines are Non canon
dire timber
Chu explained it further on the forums
(which everyone conveniently ignores, because shitting on people is more fun)
gloomy barn
lol
knotty apex
hes definitely doubling down
lol
wat evr he writes the story
so he can change it wat ever he wants
peak escarp
Exactly
knotty apex
its like if disney said Cinderella isnt a princess
den dey removed all mention of cinderella
gloomy barn
even if he did change it what relevance does this have with the rest of the story?
peak escarp
It's an irrelevant bit of trivia at best
dire timber
I think the bigger issue is this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/8hvq9e/lore_inconsistencies_in_overwatch_videos_what/
peak escarp
Yes
knotty apex
lol wasnt roadhog
peak escarp
I'm so tired of people dredging up those pictures as "proof" of Blizzard/Chu's incompetence
dire timber
Chu's retcons are nothing next to the rest of Blizzard's complete ignorance about the lore or Jeff stating actual fan misconceptions as canon
gloomy barn
Overwatch has a problem with keeping up with people's age
peak escarp
Lucio, Bastion and Pharah were grouped with Overwatch in the cinematic trailer
dire timber
Zen too
gloomy barn
do you guys think Maximilien will be a hero?
peak escarp
The problems with OW's lore are 80% fan misconception
dire timber
and Genji was shown while "tasked with ending the war" was said, which is... lol
dire timber
he was a 5 year old back during the Omnic Crisis
knotty apex
lol the hanzo genji thing is funny
gloomy barn
here we go
knotty apex
hanzo probably moopin about how wrecked genji
peak escarp
Like, every complaint against Mercy is just the fans getting it wrong
peak escarp
In reality, her timeline makes sense
dire timber
@knotty apex different class of omnics - Zen, Maximilien and other plain omnics are what we call "civilian omnics"
knotty apex
tbh at this point mercy can be an immortal devil put on the earth
dire timber
Orisa and Bastion are battle bots
knotty apex
and it wuldnt change that much
peak escarp
And Jeff getting it wrong and saying Mercy doesn't age
dire timber
@knotty apex no she can't
peak escarp
They died in the war
gloomy barn
thats why she became a medic
peak escarp
They're the reason she went into medicine, and why she initially refused to join Overwatch
dire timber
not really
gloomy barn
you keep bringing up 'points' and then when we rebuttal you just ignore us
knotty apex
i mean dey say that reyes was mad about being denied leadership
and den the hq blew up
but anything goes
maybe reyes was good guy all along
dire timber
that was in-universe speculation by the news
gloomy barn
they made it pretty evident that he was good, he just made alot of mistakes
dire timber
and became a murderous, vengeful maniac
gloomy barn
They said
gloomy barn
reaper got the same stuff
peak escarp
Increased regenerative ability - he can endure injuries that would kill ordinary people
peak escarp
Like having a building blow up on him
dire timber
Reyes is double-wielding shotguns
dire timber
Jack can run up walls
knotty apex
lol when reyes shot jack in the back
peak escarp
Reaper's abilities likely come from Moira tinkering with whatever enhancements he already had
dire timber
shadow powers are definitely all her work
gloomy barn
and able to tank a grenade as an 'old man'
peak escarp
What makes you say that, Slignerd?
knotty apex
lol wat were those dudes even thinking
dire timber
?
knotty apex
that grenade wuldve done nothing to soldier
if he just left the girl
dey did just assume he wuld save the girl
peak escarp
Moira gave Reyes his shadow powers, yes - but how do we know if they were independent of his enhancements
gloomy barn
to distract him....
dire timber
@peak escarp I just don't think 'shadow powers' can exist without Moira's involvement
gloomy barn
to get away....
knotty apex
literally only reason why it worked
gloomy barn
which they did....
knotty apex
was cuz soldier rescued the girl
dire timber
it's definitely intended to be unique to her
peak escarp
I agree on that point
dire timber
it could be that SEP made Reaper more viable a test subject than, say, a Talon sniper
gloomy barn
to show you that
peak escarp
But I don't think the shadow powers would be possible without Reyes's enhanced DNA
dire timber
you can kill a sniper
knotty apex
yeah but literally no one in the world at that point
knows soldier76 is jack morrison
dire timber
you can't kill Reaper
gloomy barn
yes...
peak escarp
That they are derived from his DNA
gloomy barn
it's to show you the type of person jack morisson was
knotty apex
is some random dude who showed up to beat up ur gang
gloomy barn
and still is
gloomy barn
even after all this has happened
obtuse geyser
Hes a good man, Missing the thrill of combat
dire timber
@peak escarp Moira and Talon snipers appear to have similar powers, though seemingly not as advanced
peak escarp
I don't think the Los Muertos goons knew Alejandra was there
They just threw the grenade at Soldier
knotty apex
lol when soldier's visor locked onto their heads
but body shotted dem
dat was pretty spot on
but shuldve locked onto bodies
gloomy barn
he wasn't trying to kill them
gloomy barn
do you just have an entire list of these?
knotty apex
dey left that omnic beat up in the street too
gloomy barn
or it ran away when it got the chance?
peak escarp
I made a few lists on Reddit of all the abilities seen in the comics and shorts
There's quite a few abilities not confirmed to be canon
dire timber
@knotty apex gameplay =/= lore
fierce swallow
Why?
knotty apex
cuz its rated T
reaper's shotguns literally has no effect on people
tracer cant hit a single shot on anymore to save her life
only person who died on screen was a robot
antonio didnt even die on screen
he just fell out a window
peak escarp
The only one Hanzo shot on his break-in to Shimada Castle was an omnic too
knotty apex
probably the most violent thing that happened
was when the dude on eichenwalde
got shanked by orisa
peak escarp
Sombra does gun down some Volskaya guards, but it's done in a rather comedic way
peak escarp
they keep it very safely within the Teen rating
knotty apex
at this point
if u shot someone in the face with a shotgun
it wuld probably just be their face covered in smoke
like in cartoons
fierce swallow
Haha
worthy rose
Not realy float.. bb guns have orange tips
BUT! You don't kill them you eliminate them.
worthy rose
After all this time i just noticed that alejandra left an omnic to die in the streets while going to get her money back
zenith vapor
regal coyote
@worthy rose omnics are not alive to start with.
neon flint
can someone explain Winston lore to me please 😃
peak escarp
he was a test specimen raised on the Horizon lunar colony by Dr. Harold Winston, who was a member of the simian research team
at some point, the apes on the colony revolted against the scientists, killing them by tricking them into an airlock then shooting them out onto the surface
Winston was not liked by the other apes (probably because he liked the scientists), so he built a rocket and flew back to Earth, where he was taken in by Overwatch and employed by their scientific division at least 9 years before present day
about 7 years before the present, he invented the chronal accelerator that keeps Tracer anchored to our timeline
around 6-5 years before present, he led the team that was responsible for arresting Doomfist
after the fall of Overwatch, it's unknown what happened to Winston, but we see him living in Watchpoint: Gibraltar, so he may have been allowed to stay there when it got shut down (or he was squatting)
most recently, Winston was seen working together with Tracer to stop Reaper and Widowmaker from stealing the Doomfist Gauntlet from a museum in an unknown location
(did I miss anything?)
timid eagle
That's about right.
There's also the time when Winston invited Tracer and Emily for Christmas dinner.
peak escarp
right
Tracer and Emily would probably be counted among Winston's closest/only friends
I don't imagine a genetically engineered gorilla gets out much
hidden grove
Does athena count?
timid eagle
Well, it's also hard for Winston to find a mate, given he's one in a million.
That, and he comes across as being socially awkward, so that also goes against him.
valid shell
If you excuse the irony of it all, a mate for Winston would be like a human smashing a chimpanzee.
He can't fit into that world anymore.
timid eagle
Or in ours, for that matter.
timid eagle
Unless if one of those female gorillas on the moon had a thing for him, poor Winston is all alone.
regal coyote
I think it is fair to say Winston is ncie guy and a family ape who deserves an ape. I think a robot would be best for him, like athena.
it is hard to find another smart ape, and i would be against him going out with a humn. (no animal fucker please that is disgusting)
So to provide love he needs an omnic. and i think winston do deserve a mate.
pearl portal
what if winston builds a robot ape 