But it's clearly a separate structure
#lore-discussion
valid shell
I think if his barrier is plates instead of an unbroken sheet, it will function differently enough. Because with Rein, you can pop his shield by shooting at the corner of it clipping through a wall.
cunning ledge
Precisely
timid eagle
I would love to know more about Lao, along with whomever was part of the original OW Strike Team.
I want to see what the Crisis was like at it's peak.
valid shell
Maybe, if we're hyperfocusing on Sanjay being a ham-fisted hard-light user, he can flay the plates off his barrier and fling them like blades?
cunning ledge
I imagine that all the regular workers who create cities like utopaea out of hard light have to use heavy machinery
valid shell
Also who's Lao.
cunning ledge
Like a shoulder mounted "cannon" or a forklift truck with a hard light 3D printer on the front
cunning ledge
Honestly I feel like hard light blades displays too much finesse
timid eagle
Morrison, Reyes, Amari, Liao, Wilhelm, and Lindholm were the Strike Team put together.
valid shell
I know.
cunning ledge
It would just be basic shapes
valid shell
I was just putting you on blast.
timid eagle
?
valid shell
Nevermind.
timid eagle
Anyway, Liao would be a cool legacy hero to finally be introduced.
cunning ledge
(Also he would have an emote where he makes a pile of those blocks with the letters on them and knocks them over)
valid shell
Why haven't we heard about Liao anywhere else?
If they were the sixth founder, you'd think the others would talk about them, or their death.
Or they would appear on posters.
Or be mentioned anywhere.
cunning ledge
I feel Liao is an all in or nothing idea at this point
Either he's never mentioned again or he's hyped up over a long time to be significant
I say he
No gender confirmed yet
valid shell
I feel Liao was cut from the canon along with First Strike.
cunning ledge
^
timid eagle
Figures.
timid eagle
They are never going to use that stuff for a concrete What Happened 30 Years Ago situation, no?
cunning ledge
Probably not
cunning ledge
Oh man just seeing that cover makes me sad again
timid eagle
I want to see how those six were trying to get used to each other.
valid shell
Except white as a sheet Reyes.
And Torb looks even older than he does now, at 50-something.
cunning ledge
Personally I'm distracted by his long as heck arms
timid eagle
We will also never get post-Crusader Reinhardt with this badass hair cut. https://78.media.tumblr.com/4d6460e0dd0071e74a6c70e989b72b3e/tumblr_ogihhaeiPY1txdpw1o5_1280.png
cunning ledge
F
timid eagle
Or young Morrison and Reyes pre-Overwatch uniform.
cunning ledge
I've always thought the Omnic at the bottom was likely to be some random Omnic that "betrayed" the crisis boys and helped overwatch find some central control McGuffin to destroy it and win
Is that a cliché?
Probably
valid shell
I've never cared much for Ludo's pseudo-anime style.
And how he gives everyone DBZ-esque gravity defying bedhead.
timid eagle
I'm happy that this skin got in for Lucio. It's basically his origins skin, as far as I'm concerned. https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*vtFiHbpzkbt9h1LhcvjhRA.jpeg
cunning ledge
Also remember that one time when Jeff clarified something like "oh Gabe and Jack were best buds for like 90% of their lives"
I want proof of that
timid eagle
Yeah, we only seen that their relationship started to deteriorate during Retribution.
I guess they were the best of bro's for most of their life, but like you said, I want to see that.
valid shell
Anyways, regarding Sanjay, he can't be any taller than 5'8-9".
valid shell
Then again, Brigitte was a skinny-armed nobody before H&G.
timid eagle
If he was added to the game, I thought his suit would be like Marvel Comics Armor. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/a/a2/Wolverine_and_the_X-Men_Alpha_%26_Omega_Vol_1_3_Textless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111220054102
cunning ledge
great minds amirite
valid shell
Although "becomes a smaller, weaker form once shot enough" is kind of D.Va's niche.
So he would have to operate differently.
valid shell
Hell, maybe he can latch his hard-light plates onto his team to just deny headshots. That would be game-changing.
cunning ledge
He would change between states of vulnerability much faster than d.va
Tbh if they modelled places for plates to go on every hero just so he had a move which gives allies plates in a specific place
That would be amazing
valid shell
D.Va and Bastion would really be the only outliers.
And for anyone except Bastion, it would just tint their screen blue to show them their heads are being protected.
And really, it would just be a sci-fi version of a construction hard-hat, which would fit his role as a development supervisor.
cunning ledge
Hell yeah
valid shell
Maybe instead of a suit of armor, he could have a pair of hovering hard-light arms.
Or both.
Probably both.
cunning ledge
Most of the ult ideas I've had revolve around creating some grand structure that helps your team
Like a thin wall with a jump pad behind it
That was one idea I had
And yeah that arms idea is cool
I imagine if he had a constant set of floating hard light plates around him he'd just push one out for a melee
As for structure creation it would show that he's doing it to follow a strict framework with borders, edges, etc
(Literally colouring between the lines)
Rather than daintily placing it like Symmetra
glossy rover
hello
valid shell
@glossy rover Yo.
valid shell
@glossy rover Good talk.
manic hinge
Did anyone figure out or have theories based on Reaper's abilities to pull out his unlimted shotguns out of nowhere? (IDK if this counts as lore or not)
frosty shell
Maybe they're organic?
manic hinge
Probably,
valid shell
@manic hinge Nothing conclusive yet.
manic hinge
Damn.. Still it feels un-natural...
frosty shell
Maybe we should come up with a list of things to ask Michael Chu if he ever does another AMA?
valid shell
But the running theory is that his control over decaying and regenerating cells extends to his equipment, so he can create an endless supply of shotguns and shells from discarded scrap on the battlefield.
@frosty shell And looking at the Brigitte AMA, nothing of value was gleaned.
So I doubt he'd answer anything as complex as Reaper's condition or hard-light or anything.
manic hinge
Hmmph... seems reasonable
frosty shell
OK but maybe Liao at least? Unless they still have plans for Liao....
Even if it's something useless it'd be something...
Of course he prefers to answer meaningless questions so that he doesn't wind up with another "D. Va was never a StarCraft pro" debacle
Like maybe ask "What is Liao's favorite color" or something?????
At least that would establish that Liao is canon
Of course, if I want to kick the hornet's nest, "Which mistakes have been made by the lore team that you want to correct?"
He'll never answer that though
I kinda don't want to ask him about the god programs, that was almost certainly the writer's mistake for that comic
paper gazelle
Speaking about Liao
I've theorized that they probably left Overwatch after the crisis
frosty shell
probs
valid shell
Liao is just four letters at the moment.
We know nothing about them.
And they likely no longer exist in the canon.
paper gazelle
Well but did Blizzard say anything about them
Also I think Blizzard is keeping that a deep secret about them
They probably don't want to reveal them for various reasons
valid shell
I doubt it.
Since they were mentioned while First Strike was being hyped and vanished after it was cancelled.
And since then, it's been pretty thoroughly hammered into our heads that Ana, Jack, Gabe, Rein, and Torb are the 5 founders.
Not six.
golden urchin
We still don't even know who emre is too.
From operation white dome
I feel like they could be an interesting character because they were never ever mentioned before.
paper gazelle
But I'm still wondering why Blizzard refuses to say anything at all about Liao
paper gazelle
At least say "Liao? Who's that?"
golden urchin
I feel like they're planning something.
Like post on twitter, like they did with dva saying she wasn't a starcraft player.
I feel like the person on the far left in ana's origin story is Emre
They confirmed it wasn't Liao
valid shell
I'm not sure about the specifics with the writer/penciler/inker/whatever for First Strike, but they might not be allowed to mention him.
Some legal bullshit, I don't know.
valid shell
Yup.
He could just as easily be the Omnic in this pic: https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/overwatch_gamepedia/a/a5/Overwatch_First_Strike_Front_Cover_Art.jpg?version=34a856001939f6611e4f1a3b53b37c61
golden urchin
Yeah.
Theres also theories that Liao is an omnic that started the omnic crisis
Basically, he's the iris that uploaded himself into a god program.
It's pretty interesting
Probably not true though
frosty shell
But of course Chu said that Anubis is the only god program
And I'm pretty sure Anubis was created during the crisis, not before it
The theory about the iris being some sort of collective AI consciousness may be true though
golden urchin
(anubis isn't the only god program coughs)
(athena could literally be a god program coughs)
frosty shell
Because Zenyatta's Cultist backstory would make sense if the Iris was sort of theorized
golden urchin
What is cultist zenyatta's backstory?
frosty shell
"Stranger still were the Monk and his apprentice, the Swordsman. Where they had met and why they had agreed to travel together are tales for another day. But it is said that they answered to a foreboding presence—a force beyond mortal understanding."
So Blizzard may indeed be thinking of the Iris as a powerful AI
frosty shell
But as long as Michael Chu is writing Overwatch he won't include anything about god programs because he said Anubis was the only one
Even though the comic says otherwise
frosty shell
But then again considering Junkenstein isn't "lore" it's possible Chu didn't write and whoever did had the same fanon ideas about the Iris
golden urchin
yeah
i really want the iris to be revealed
because that would cause conflict with sombra aswell
and it could cause another omnic war
which would mean more animated shorts
timid eagle
Has anything been mentioned about that person in Jack's photo during the Christmas comic?
limpid agate
No
timid eagle
valid shell
Still no.
timid eagle
They really are taking their sweet time revealing this stuff.
limpid agate
That's just some background character, family or something
They take their sweet time on everything
Like
Recall
Liao
What other mysteries that existed at launch are still unanswered
We learned about Talon and Sombra
And Ana
But Talon took a year.
low axle
I still wanna know about that family reaper was creeping on in the christmas comic >.> They said its not a random family...but that is pretty vague.
meager tulip
I always just thought it was his own family
low axle
Could be, but nothing confirmed. Is the popular theory.
meager tulip
I mean. They looked Hispanic
meager tulip
Still no explanation to why Gabey was stalking a "non random" happy family
manic hinge
The family has to be related to Gabe's past though...
valid shell
We already know they're significant.
But just because they're vaguely beige, doesn't mean they're all related.
meager tulip
im not tryna start a race war, but i mean
manic hinge
Is Reyes like hispanic or african? or mexican? I get confused by others saying his race..
valid shell
Hispanic.
manic hinge
Alright
peak escarp
Reyes is a Hispanic name
valid shell
We don't know if he's Mexican, he might be Colombian or something, but his family's definitely from SA.
peak escarp
A lot of artists draw him darker than he is
meager tulip
with the limited amount of knowledge of the lore, one can only assume the family would be Reyes' family or a family he knew
peak escarp
That's the logical conclusion
Everyone else was with their "family" except McCree/Sombra
valid shell
There was a hot minute where everyone thought Reyes was black because they confused him with this dude: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/0b/8b/cb0b8b442149ccf222ed65a6884c1acb.png
peak escarp
They still do
valid shell
And the father of that family might just be an ex-Overwatch agent that's on Reaper's list.
Or the mother.
Not the kid, though.
Obv.
meager tulip
I mean. Reaper looked so glum
meager tulip
oof. fine
peak escarp
The context was of people spending time with loved ones during the holidays
It doesn't rule out Reaper being a workaholic and continuing his hunt over Christmas
But it seems less likely than the family being his family
valid shell
That kind of falls apart, looking at Mercy, the Junkers, Sombra, McCree, Mei, Zarya, Hanzo...
meager tulip
idk if Reaper would be so fucked as to murder someone thats with their family during christmas
valid shell
So Mercy, the Junkers, Sombra, McCree, Hanzo, then.
Jack and Ana aren't even interacting, hardly 'loved ones'.
peak escarp
Mercy is receiving a letter from a friend, the Junkers are good friends out having a good time
McCree and Hanzo are loners with no family
valid shell
Still. There's hardly a consistent theme between all the depicted characters.
Some are with family. Some with friends. Some alone. Some working.
peak escarp
Eh, I guess you're right
But it still doesn't seem like that family was Reaper's target to me
valid shell
I'm not sold on it either.
But it's just another possibility.
There's nothing to suggest from the tone of the panel or the theme of the collage that they're his family, despite being not-quite-white.
meager tulip
Christmas is still a friendly, family-oriented kind of time of year
Idk if Reaper would even go out working without some other members of talon
peak escarp
Seems like they had some downtime - Widow at least had time to visit her husband's grave
meager tulip
right
peak escarp
Sombra is more freelance, so I don't think Talon would restrict her as much as Widowmaker
meager tulip
Sombra stays home and drinks
peak escarp
Reaper is probably high ranking enough to go on solo missions
peak escarp
Are all the leaders equal? Or does one (Doomfist?) outrank them all?
peak escarp
It would be an interesting subject to find out about
meager tulip
Honestly.
peak escarp
I'd also like to know how Doomfist has so much influence in Talon when a) he has been in prison the last 5 or so years and b) he was only Doomfist for 3-ish years before that
He must really be charismatic and/or powerful
Maximilien has been a Talon leader for longer, you'd think he'd have more influence
meager tulip
Shit, man. We need more info
peak escarp
Doomfist keeping up to date and sending instructions back to Talon can easily be explained by moles in Helix
Which was implied in the article about his escape
Helix is starting to look worse than Overwatch back in the day
Instead of rumors of corruption they've got ACTUAL corruption
regal coyote
few things: 1) the christmas lurking Reaper does, it is confirmed by blizz this is a family with special meaning to reaper (so not likely a mark)
Talon is huge and doomfist is not going to micro-manage every mission. that is not his style anyways, he prefers people who can do and think of stuff themselves, even allow them going on a bit of rebellious streak.
as long as you dont fuck up doomfist's plan too much he is fine. in fact, he seems like a reasonable leader.
Reaper is on the council which means he has quite some power. so i am sure he can do missions on his own.
low axle
And to answer a question earlier. Reyes is Hispanic and American 😛
regal coyote
Yes it is obvious on that. :)
valid shell
Not obvious to everyone, apparently. A lot of people still think he's from Mexico.
peak escarp
plenty of people think Lucio is Canadian
peak escarp
actual common misconceptions
elfin mesa
peak escarp
I've seen several people complaining about Pink Mercy by calling her a 40-something doctor
excuse you, she's only 37
I was kinda surprised when I saw Zarya is only 28
I thought she was in her 30s
regal coyote
the blackwatch part though, we do not know how blackwatch will end up
the in universe atlasnews mention the eventual event of blackwatch vs overwatch which causes the whole swiss kaboom thing, though that may or may not be the actual truth of the event
limpid agate
No
We know what Blackwatch was
Blackwatch was part of Overwatch
And that should be obvious
But its not
There are people that think Blackwatch is Talon
Blackwatch is a third company
Or Blackwatch is evil Overwatch.
Who cares if, at some point, Blackwatch and Overwatch fought.
We know what Blackwatch, as an organization, is.
steady cave
deeus
valid shell
@steady cave ?
valid shell
What does deeus mean.
dense estuary
no clue. Dee Snider as Jesus?
potent jewel
Damn did Sombra stole the teleport device from Winstor or Tracer?
cunning ledge
It's implied by that one voice line that she stole the tech for her Translocator
Probably from Winston rather than Tracer
lean haven
that'd be kinda cool actually
regal coyote
sombra techis borrowed from winston tech (tracer's thingy is winston's tech)
sombraq can hack omnics, or at least some omnics, as seen in the comic.
Bastion is probably hackable seeing he is old tech (if no upgrade is made from torby), orisa may or may not be hackable (depending on efi's hardening) and zen is probably too complex to be easily hacked
valid shell
It's hardly canon, but in the ARG, Sombra did technically hack Bastion.
bronze sky
According to voice interactions Sombra can hack Orisa
dreamy path
sombra could probably hack bastions
valid shell
I would say almost definitely.
bronze sky
Well lore-wise sombra can't hack anything non-electronic
valid shell
And Lynx seems to be a similar model to Zenyatta, so she could hack Zen as well.
@bronze sky Robots are pretty electronic.
bronze sky
Yeah
But well I would say maybe Zenyatta would be a different case?
He can float and turn invincible
valid shell
He can float, yes, but Transcendence isn't canon (yet).
valid shell
The ARG is tenuously canon.
cunning ledge
I mean
bronze sky
Well except he is teaching Genji something and can canonically float
cunning ledge
Some of it served to give info that's obviously canon
bronze sky
Bu he basically has 0 lore
cunning ledge
And yeah as you said there's the Lynx thing
valid shell
But between the ARG, her interaction with Orisa, and her hacking Lynx, it seems that all the playable robots are hackable.
And her translocator tech is definitely stolen.
bronze sky
Also I believe Sombra wouldn't hack zen that easily because even Moira doesn't know how Zenyatta functions
He is an odd case
dire timber
keep in mind that the only entity shown to be capable of overriding omnics completely is Anubis
Sombra was only shown capable of paralyzing them and accessing their memory
shrewd folio
Are health packs canon?
potent jewel
dont think so
shrewd folio
Also are Brigettes/Reinharts/orisas shields hard light tech?
neat pivot
Can the BCRF twitch drops be gotten by watching it via Android?
valid shell
@neat pivot Wrong channel.
neat pivot
jesus christ
valid shell
I know, shocking.
cunning ledge
@caffeine_roulette#1118 presumably
Vishkar must sell simple hard light projectors to J08/Efi/etc
next ruin
Wait, this game has entities?
dire timber
@next ruin er, what do you mean?
like superduper said, entity is a super generic term
it's a person of any sort, a being of any sort, an organization of any sort
and in broader usage, it can pretty much refer to anything that exists
severe oxide
was Snowball ever referred to with gendered pronouns?
hypotesis: snowball is female
evidence: https://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/123/1239113/3385373-screenshot_18-05-08_15-35-25-000.jpg
cunning ledge
I don't think Snowball has ever been referred to as a gender
compelling theory though
river light
stronk evidence
limpid agate
And 雪球 isn't the greatest conversationalist.
From Mei's journal
So never gendered
frosty shell
Of course, we all know that Snowball is the true mastermind
He shut off all the scientists but Mei in order to get more power for himself
river light
oh no
frosty shell
He knew that Mei would give him more power so he kept her alive
cunning ledge
nope
frosty shell
Snowball is also the one who leaked the Blackwatch documents
limpid agate
Shitposting will result in a loss of access.
frosty shell
Where do I do it then?
iron plume
g-d
cosmic cape
So it was the storm that shut off all the pods except mei's?
Do we know around what time during Mei's sleep that this happened?
peak escarp
I think the pods just weren't designed to be used for that long
They were supposed to be a short term solution
Not 9 years
lavish rune
Then... Why did meis work?
echo snow
She got lucky
peak escarp
They probably all broke one by one and hers was the last one to fail
But she woke up before it could
In a different universe it could have been Oppara who survived, or Torres, or Arrhenius
Sometimes things surpass their expected limitations for unknown reasons
meager vapor
alright, since i am new to this server, and i don't know if this has been discussed before, i'd like to open a thread, concerning the lore of widowmaker: is it known or somewhere shown who exactly is responsible for turning Amelie into widowmaker? I've seen some discussions that it was Moira, what evidence or guidance is there for this case?
peak escarp
Moira is a strong candidate for the one responsible for slowing her heart and making her blue
echo snow
There's an interaction between Moira and Widow that has Moira checking in on Widow's conditioning
peak escarp
since that almost definitely has a genetic component
as for the initial kidnapping and brainwashing, it is unknown
echo snow
I imagine there's a team responsible
meager vapor
@echo snow reference for the interaction?
echo snow
It's on the wiki
meager vapor
I think too it was a team, with Moira having fingers in it
echo snow
Widowmaker: I don't feel. That's the point, isn't it?```Dunno if it's been confirmed as real, but it's there
peak escarp
interactions themselves aren't canon, but the sentiment and ideas behind them might be
peak escarp
they're akin to playing with action figures - not what has actually been said, but what might be said if those heroes met
although some voice lines actually contradict what we know from canon, so it's best not to trust them too much
meager vapor
I'd rather say to try to approach them from a different point of view
but imo this interaction between Moira and Widowmaker shows quite something
not only that Moira has asked, but she got a response "that's the point, isn't it?" almost like "that's what's supposed to be happening, right?"
idk it's quite tricky
peak escarp
I think that interaction at least indicates that Widowmaker is aware of what happened to her
meager vapor
but we're looking for what it indicates at most, aren't we? :p
Also, if she is aware, it is tricky to believe that 'she feels no remorse'
peak escarp
I think it's inaccurate to say Widowmaker feels no emotions - she expresses anger when being shot at, she seems frustrated at her inability to feel things, and she does feel pleasure from killing
she just doesn't get all the positive emotions
meager vapor
i think she does feel something when a mission was successful, something of being proud
that from her cinematic, when she says "at the moment of the kill, they are never more alive"
peak escarp
that particular interaction reinforces my theory that Widowmaker is getting increasingly frustrated that she has no emotional response
she went to her husband's grave, she moved into her family's manor and surrounded herself with her wedding photo, all to try to force the emotions to come back, but it's not working
so when she snaps "that's the point, isn't it?", she sounds frustrated to me
meager vapor
that's a valuable insight, i haven't thought of it that way :p
if that is so, it might very well be that she feels hatred or anger towards Moira?
echo snow
Is it a snap? I haven't heard it in-game
meager vapor
but that is also unclear since if that was the case, she would most likely want to join Overwatch. That contradicts with Overwatch being initially the primary target
namely, her husband
regal coyote
my guess is that she willingly want to be rid of emotions, to rid of his sadness towards his hubby's death
regal coyote
then again we dont actually know how his hubby is as a husband. He seems to be an efficient and well liked person at work for sure.
Moira can be an annoying person, so anyone can be pissed at her, and for good reason
i mean she can be quite sarcastic at times
peak escarp
she probably didn't have free will when they started work on her (she was programmed during her initial kidnapping, so she could have been programmed to return to Talon after killing Gerard), but now that she does have free will she might resent what was done to her
she stays with Talon because they still have power over her and it gives her an outlet to kill and get her fix of pleasure
meager vapor
well that's it, she actually doesn't have free will by being programmed
she has free will in the terms of what she has become, against her free will
peak escarp
I'm saying they probably don't have to control her anymore, but they did at first
meager vapor
yes, most likely she has been controlled for the assassination of her husband
peak escarp
we know she was
meager vapor
i don't know :o, enlighten me
peak escarp
"After several unsuccessful attempts to eliminate Gérard, Talon decided to change its focus to his wife, Amélie. Talon operatives kidnapped her and subjected her to an intense program of neural reconditioning. They broke her will, suppressed her personality, and reprogrammed her as a sleeper agent. She was eventually found by Overwatch agents, apparently none the worse for wear, and returned to her normal life.
Two weeks later she killed Gérard in his sleep."
from her bio
regal coyote
we have little bit of info in the dated character bio, that is it
we know how accurate those bio is
look at reapers
peak escarp
what's wrong with Reaper's?
aside from it just being about the rumor of Reaper, not actual facts about Reyes
regal coyote
basically mostly rumor except on ability parts.
still listed as merc rather than Talon.
I would say the general outline of all the stories are eaasonable though, even if not totally accurate
so we can be sure talon is the one that kidnap widow, do things to her, and release her back to murder our friendly neighbourhood gerad.
meager vapor
@peak escarp a bit out of topic, but i wonder who your main is :p
regal coyote
but after that we are not sure, we know she had been upgraded by biotech, mostly from the moira, and next thing we see her is her duel with ana
peak escarp
couldn't you guess?
regal coyote
it is mercy isnt it
frosty shell
The one thing that seems to be agreed upon as an error is how long Reinhardt served in Overwatch
regal coyote
i would say info on the bio is only slightly more accurate than AtlasNews.
so it offers a good viewpoint, but not the complete truth
peak escarp
It's McCree
My favourite because of his voice actor and his lore, so I just ended to playing him all the time
regal coyote
yes he shoots magic missiles (reference to his critical roll)
But really McCree's lore is simple and solid
only thing we dont know is the circumstance he left overwatch (which i suspect is some fuck ups with s76)
meager vapor
I was particularly interested in the relationship between McCree and Ana
peak escarp
I'd like to know more about the circumstances of him joining Overwatch
regal coyote
we KNOW mccree did not leave even after venice, he is still in ow/bw during uprising
we know genji transitioned into proper overwatch, seeing he is in the battle against doomfist
peak escarp
17-year-old kid in the deadlock gang was a good enough shot to impress Reyes and get him to offer Jesse a second chance
regal coyote
or decent shoot at least, and he probably shows that he got guts and some type of honor
remmber, despite everything, old gabe was quite honorable in his own way
peak escarp
I'd love to see what Jesse's relationship with other OW members was like
meager vapor
precisely
peak escarp
If the voice lines can be believed, Ana helped him refine his aim
regal coyote
voicelines, it does show the general personality and their view towards each other
Jessie McCree seem to be loveable
meager vapor
yep, in an interaction between Pharah and him
regal coyote
also him and ana
peak escarp
But what about Jack, Torb, Rein?
regal coyote
seems to be loveable
peak escarp
Did he ever get stuck looking after Fareeha?
Was there ever any flirting with Angela?
dire timber
@Andrew23#1239 others already answered this already, but it's all but certain that Moira was responsible for altering Widowmaker's physiology
meager vapor
@dire timber thanks for the conclusion, i forgot
peak escarp
I can't remember the source, but Chu said McCree and Genji were good friends, and stayed in contact after the fall of Overwatch
dire timber
the matter of brainwashing is uncertain however
meager vapor
i don't think there was a flirting between him and Angela lol
dire timber
it's possible that conditioning was also Moira's work, but we can't be sure of that
peak escarp
Jesse was/is a flirty guy
meager vapor
@dire timber probably the best candidate
regal coyote
actually we dont even know if it is real brainwashing as in machine and drugs, or merely some suggestion and a few pictures and info (real or modified) to convince widow to join the scheme
peak escarp
Ana calls him a "charmer"
dire timber
@regal coyote conditioned
meager vapor
@peak escarp but definitely not towards Angela
regal coyote
i always think gerad had a darker past (he might want to put behind)
i think we will have to see when widow's past is out in comic
peak escarp
@meager vapor why not towards Angela?
dire timber
conditioning means that she had a programmed "command" to kill Gerard that she couldn't help but unconditionally follow
meager vapor
@peak escarp I'll ask differently, what makes you think it was exactly with Angela?
regal coyote
the whole "you dont know gerad" line makes me wonder though
dire timber
she misses him, in a way
peak escarp
Because she's the same age as him, and they would have had plenty of interaction
regal coyote
might be something that seems to be mistake made by gerad that causes it, kinda like how anakin does thw whole choking on padm thing
peak escarp
She did join later than him though
peak escarp
Doesn't mean the flirting was reciprocated
regal coyote
well, the genji-angela thing is unfortunately not just a ship, and i think chu unfortuantely does have/had the idea to ship these too
peak escarp
He probably flirted with everyone
meager vapor
that sounds too silly to me imo lol
peak escarp
I see it
frosty shell
I don't get why people hate chu for suggesting genji and mercy's relationship
regal coyote
McCree probably come off flirty anyways, it is his style, and way he carry himself, which is reasonable (look at his VA, ffs any line can be flirty with a charmer like that)
peak escarp
It's got more evidence than any other ship people come up with
dire timber
I think he did subtly flirt with Angela, in that "I have faith you'll patch me up, doc" manner
just, flirting by acting super casual, but without being too pushy about it
frosty shell
The thing about what Genji's got down there a lot of people dislike Chu for too, but that was a question a reporter asked him
dire timber
@frosty shell because that means Pharmercy ain't canon
meager vapor
@dire timber super casual
peak escarp
@dire timber McCree is definitely the type of guy to respect someone when they say no
regal coyote
trust me, chu would be recieving deaththreats or assassinations fromf angirls, if chu had said "oh, genji's shaft and rocks are gone"
dire timber
... uh
peak escarp
He said his lower body is intact, but he didn't say anything about functional ;)
regal coyote
so yeah, it is silly the reporter ask that question, but also an obvious choice for chu to say his pencil is still in one piece
peak escarp
I know
dire timber
people get angry over that, why
peak escarp
It's not a huge deal
regal coyote
wait, why are we focusing on his joystick anyways? and srsly with mercy tech this problem is easy to rez
dire timber
it makes sense that he would have his lower body still - I'm not sure if humans can even leave without
regal coyote
in the world of overwatch? i am sure no lower body is not a big problem
frosty shell
Lorewise Pharmercy would be pretty weird, Pharah and Mercy were friends as children and Mercy is 7 years older than Pharah
regal coyote
but really back to more substancial lore. yes it is strange, but even highlord jeff jokingly said he support pharmercy
frosty shell
Mercy's 37 and Pharah's 30
peak escarp
Pharah is 32
dire timber
uh?
regal coyote
7 year is nothing... been there done that
frosty shell
Oops my dumb mistake
regal coyote
well, when you are 30 something it is nothing
peak escarp
The age gap isn't what makes it weird
dire timber
it's the fact that Mercy knew Pharah while they were 17 and 12 respectively
peak escarp
It's the fact that 17yo Angela came to visit Overwatch and met 12yo Fareeha
dire timber
^
frosty shell
One thing I'm sure the writers have a backstory for that we don't know about is Pharah's father
regal coyote
sam the nobody
dire timber
oh, yeah
peak escarp
Yes
dire timber
I wish we had a proper name for him
peak escarp
My neck of the woods :D
frosty shell
Like Chu wouldn't have just made up the name "Sam" out of nowhere
dire timber
"Sam" is definitely a shortened version, there's no way that's it
why do Chu and Jeff keep dropping lame names
grr
regal coyote
well, he is a nobody, and is likely does not have much to do with lore other than "father figure with pharah and he keeps in tough" and the fact that "he is native so stop being a fucking sjw about my thunderbird skin"
frosty shell
He's also a "public servant" according to that one video
regal coyote
meaning a non-combatant
whatever you know it i touch, and you know i dont correct typos
frosty shell
Lorewise the best reason for cancelling First Strike is that it would prevent them from adding in new characters and claiming that they'd been there all along
regal coyote
not just that
limpid agate
If we go down this path, it really closes all these doors
regal coyote
first strike also does not fit into the now more complicated backstory
frosty shell
which more complicated backstory
dire timber
@frosty shell that's... probably actually the case
regal coyote
my guess is that they do not think ow would be THIS successful and the initial story is much more simplified
dire timber
and that's actually the most logical explanation
regal coyote
so the current backstory/retcon and such exist cause ow is really doing well and they can expand everything much more, more so than the canon they had when they try push the first strike project
dire timber
chances are, without First Strike cancelation, we wouldn't have Moira
still, why won't it leak
rrreeeeee
frosty shell
So what you're saying is that they thought they would've needed First Strike in order to sell players on the lore, but the game sold so well that they didn't need it?
@regal coyote
regal coyote
well we would still have moira
she would still be the widowmaker-maker
first strike would make the overwatch universe mroe popular
yes a multimedia project would help sell ow
you can sorta see it too from other ow media
regal coyote
the early ones are focused on "look this guy is cool, so is that guy, like us"
and the current oens are story telling.
dire timber
but I want to kniw what was meant to be there
frosty shell
Yeah, the main reason why they make animated shorts is to get cool footage for commercials
regal coyote
like, last bastion is not trying to sell us bastion being cool but actually focused on telling a story, a lore, and a good animation piece
frosty shell
I didn't realize that there were only 4 animated shorts released in the leadup to the game's release
dire timber
when is the next one?
frosty shell
Of course, there was also the 3 trailers
Animated short? No idea, probably Gamescom but hopefully earlier
swift vortex
What if hero 28 was a whole new character connected to another heroes lore
dire timber
that was Brigitte
dire timber
Moira
limpid agate
That's Moira
swift vortex
What if it’s Lucios competition DJ
frosty shell
Likely the next character will be someone whose name we don't know
swift vortex
But
frosty shell
Going by the pattern of releases so far
dire timber
when's Gamescom?
swift vortex
We get a new hero every 4 months, correct
swift vortex
Kk
limpid agate
March/July/November
swift vortex
Yeah
limpid agate
May
June
JUly
August
cunning ledge
3
swift vortex
Like 2
swift vortex
But as we all know
dire timber
I hope we get it in May
swift vortex
Summer goes by like
regal coyote
wait wait think about it
frosty shell
June might be when it gets released, given that the map was released 2 months early?
regal coyote
what if it is indeed related to Lucio, like Lucio's Roadie?
limpid agate
Nah
regal coyote
it would kick ass, we can have a comic on lucio then
limpid agate
We haven't had anything to do with Lucio in a while
peak escarp
They might be changing up the schedule
frosty shell
That would be cool to have a Lucio comic
swift vortex
What do we know about that talon omnic max or something
limpid agate
Blizzard likes to tease heroes before they come out
regal coyote
oh well, sigh. was hoping for lucio lore.
peak escarp
Or Rialto might just be an anomaly
swift vortex
If he were in the game, what would his abilities be
limpid agate
@swift vortex Max is an Omnic that runs a casino in Monaco. He is also a leader of Talon
Thats all we know
frosty shell
Did you hear about the update to the bulletin on Lijiang Tower?
regal coyote
i mean, roadie would be a great character, think about it, a roadie with a guitar, and some daemon like powers :)
LJ tower and the wheelchair, right?
they were guessing Dr. Winston
limpid agate
Nah
regal coyote
iif it were true i hope blizz at least permanently burn out all his hair on his head
frosty shell
Doctor_Six translated them so yes
regal coyote
Jewvia dont think it a reference to Dr. Winston?
i mean, he does not ahve to be playable, but might still have made it earthbound
frosty shell
apparently Lucheng's president once worked on the moon
I don't want Dr. Winston to be alive because we've got too many characters returning from the grave
regal coyote
i was gueeing dr. winston, and that he would bt not playable, but as a funding for new overwatch
plus bald guy on wheelchair makes a great character
limpid agate
There is literally no reason for Harold Winston to be alive.
It wouldn't even be a twist
Because it means 1 of 2 things
regal coyote
so you suggesting a random nobody that comes back from moon base then?
limpid agate
1 - Winston knows he is alive, but never says anything, acts like he is still dead, and still wears his glasses like a memento.
regal coyote
1 is good call
limpid agate
2 - Winston doesn't know he is alive, he has been sitting around Lijiang for years without Winston knowing shit.
Both of them are terrible outcomes
peak escarp
Yeah that was me
low axle
If we get more luna base oriented lore or heroes make it one of the evil apes:P
low axle
Yea flying Chimpanzee!
regal coyote
yes
peak escarp
I put the speculation about Dr. Winston in my post so there's be more to talk about
regal coyote
but there is a wheelchair though
limpid agate
Hammond is not a monkey
peak escarp
But I don't think it's him
limpid agate
Most likely not a monkey*
regal coyote
so it is bigger than a cat
regal coyote
and hamm is small, small enough to live in a cage
low axle
I think Hammond is an ape probably a Chimp. You don't 😛
peak escarp
They make pretty big cages
regal coyote
chimp dont live in small cages
limpid agate
Hammond went missing for a week
No one gave a shit
Hammond was treated like an animal instead of a person
regal coyote
you lose a chimp for a day you go code red
limpid agate
And of that animal category
limpid agate
One thats not a threat
low axle
I still think Hammonds an Ape or Monkey, and my money is on Chimp until they say something.
o.o
regal coyote
it is small, it can move around nicely with good vertical mvoement, and smart
peak escarp
My bet is he's a lemur
regal coyote
small monkey yes, but i would say something like a cat or ferret or something liek that
frosty shell
Another thing going for Hammond being a chimp is that the first chimp in space is named Ham
regal coyote
lemur is ok choice too really
frosty shell
*was
valid shell
We don't know anything about "vertical movement".
peak escarp
Small but still a primate
limpid agate
Hammond is a small specimen (This is the only one most people look at)
Hammond sleeps in a cage rather than a room
Hammond was missing for close to a week
And the biggest of them all
Nobody seems to care.```He cant be a primate
That's my thoughts
The only thing to suggest him being a primeate
Is that we know there are other primates
frosty shell
Also I doubt that most animals besides great apes would be intelligent enough to be genetically modified to human-level intelligence
low axle
Mouse Lemurs are pretty small
valid shell
There's nothing to suggest that Hammond is at human-level of intelligence.
low axle
and apes
valid shell
If he was that intelligent, he wouldn't be in a cage.
regal coyote
see, he can be a small monkey or lemur, my hope is that he is a rodent, or a cat. best choice is a racoon, but that would be too obvious
frosty shell
@valid shell he was clearly smart enough to escape his cage
low axle
Have you seen the cages lab animals are kept in 😛
limpid agate
Have you seen the cages Winston lives in?
Or Simon?
Or Hypatia?
No, you havent
Because they live in rooms
valid shell
@frosty shell Parrots/rats/etc. escape their cages all the time.
frosty shell
Also Hammond is implied to have tricked the scientists into escaping the airlocks
valid shell
What.
frosty shell
But chimpanzees are smaller so they might be in cages
valid shell
Where is it ever implied that Hammond murdered the scientists.
limpid agate
Its not
low axle
Still betting on Chimp Hammond could have been a baby one and thus harmless at the time
regal coyote
dude even nowadays msot chimps for experiments live in small rooms
valid shell
It's not about size, it's about consistency.
limpid agate
Even as a baby, Winston had a room
regal coyote
yes some live in cages, but those cages are actually rooms.
limpid agate
You can see his bedroom in game
regal coyote
and yes if you dont see a chimp in that cage-room you gonna be worry
frosty shell
It is just a theory, but it seems unusual that Blizzard would've mentioned Hammond if he didn't have some significance to the story
valid shell
Ha.
frosty shell
Also maybe "cage" is just an informal term
valid shell
If Hammond was an ape, he wouldn't be in a cage. If Hammond was an ape, people would care if he was missing.
He's not an ape.
regal coyote
ok ok, sam is different, and ray/fio is jsut close to throw away names
frosty shell
Good points but the other gorillas are just names so that's what I'm suggesting
valid shell
?
frosty shell
But Hammond is given special treatment
limpid agate
And Hammond is different than the Gorillas
frosty shell
Also as pointed out he's unaccounted for
limpid agate
That's what we were told
low axle
He could easily be a Loris 😛
valid shell
I'm not saying he's not important to the story.
limpid agate
That could set up for him being a new character that escaped to Earth
Or
Anything
valid shell
I'm saying he's not a le funni diddy kong monkee.
limpid agate
It doesnt mean any 1 thing
frosty shell
Maybe Hammond's a pig?
limpid agate
It doesnt mean he killed everyone
regal coyote
a loris is too slow, and too hard to feed needing special diet
limpid agate
Or led a riot
Or fucked up the air supply
Or baited the scientists into suicide
All it means is
low axle
Maybe a normal Loris would be..
limpid agate
He is not the same as everyone else.
He is not on the colony.
frosty shell
I am willing to accept Hammond might just be a monkey and not an ape
regal coyote
we dont know what ham did, or if he did any or all the things, but he has escaped, and is partly a piece to the gorilla uprising
regal coyote
yes\
frosty shell
Also the animals on the colony are supposed to test how humans will cope with space
So I think they're all primates
regal coyote
no
limpid agate
We know exactly 4 things about Hammond.
1 - Size
2 - Cage
3 - Missing with no care to find him
4 - Currently off-colony.
limpid agate
2 and 3 imply he is not an ape
regal coyote
dog dotn go into cages
regal coyote
not cat also, cat dont live in cages
frosty shell
As I said "cage" might just be an informal term
regal coyote
no, they use "quarters" for the rooms and jailcells for the rillas
low axle
Remember not every Scientist gave the experiments decent treatment
limpid agate
low axle
you can keep posting that pic over and over again
people are still going to disagree with you
frosty shell
But maybe Hammond was put in a cage because he kept breaking out
regal coyote
we can assume most pet subject get similar treatment
limpid agate
but the way they are, they are a serious threat we have to take seriously
I guess it's not a big deal to anyone else
Line 1 is gorillas
Line 2 is hammond
low axle
Anyway smart way to deal with them
is to wait 60 years
let htem all die then go
not like they have a sizable breeding population
😛
regal coyote
i can accept it being a tiny hand sized monkey at best, if you really want it to be primate, but i will go for either a rodent or my own species
limpid agate
Literally every line in Hammond's paragraph is something that contradicts a line in that gorilla picture I posted
low axle
And we have pictures of chimpanzee's one of which we cannot see the number off
from luna cams
frosty shell
Also the "emergency malfunction with the airlock" sure seems like it was a trick by one of the test subjects
low axle
Probably.
But like I said we have no reason NOT to believe Dr. Winstone was the exception and the only one not an asshole to test subjects.
Which explains Winstons more..moral? I gues sbehavior:P
frosty shell
This is just Law of Conservation of Detail; Hammond is probably one of the masterminds
regal coyote
actually i think in general the scientists on moonbase are rather neutral to the unjects.
dr winston is extra good to them yes
golden urchin
Was Dr. Winston like winstons caretaker or did he take care of more than one monkey
frosty shell
Probably each scientist was in charge of specific specimens
golden urchin
Why would Winston name himself after him?
limpid agate
Actually, now that I rewatched this. Here's a good question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vheuH09MUsM&t=5m12s
golden urchin
ty
regal coyote
each gorilla may have gotten name for themself
limpid agate
But at different times
So the "chimps"
Could just be young gorillas
Years in the past
frosty shell
But chimps look pretty different from gorillas, those are clearly chimpanzees
limpid agate
How are those clearly chimpazees
limpid agate
You mean like this?
regal coyote
yes by bone structures and such if you want to go that way, they can be not gorillas, that i agree
limpid agate
Is that supposed to clearly be a chimpanzee?
dire timber
@limpid agate a theory I had for Harold being alive is that he escaped the moon base and was in a coma
regal coyote
hell one of them ook like an orangatan in one shot
dire timber
and woke up recently
regal coyote
but yes they are chimps
regal coyote
that is jsut artistic license
dire timber
it would line up with Winston's behavior - he'd still keep mementos, and he'd still have no contact with Harold
regal coyote
i mean, you can say bone structure or roadhog cannot be a human, or a certain someone will always have back problems, etc
limpid agate
So when I see this, I'm supposed to know its a Chimpanzee?
It looks like
Literally any other monkey
frosty shell
that's a gorilla
low axle
rolls eyes
regal coyote
facial features
runic scroll
it's a scientist
low axle
THe pictures where CLEARLY chimps that the camera took from the lore photos
Light faces
big ears
golden urchin
I believe it was stated this was supposed to be hammond
low axle
long faces
limpid agate
Wow, they know its a gorilla. I thought it looked the same as the chimps
@golden urchin Hammond is number 8
That is Speciment 20, Susan
golden urchin
yeah,,,
limpid agate
The corner is unnumbered
regal coyote
can i ask WHY are we micro-analysing the artwork of a few pictures trying to call gorillas a chimp?
limpid agate
🤷
golden urchin
i'm saying theres two of them when they said they only had smaller test subjects
limpid agate
Lets put art aside.
golden urchin
one small test subject
limpid agate
I'm going to keep hammering on these two points
dire timber
@limpid agate what do you think about my Harold-in-coma hypotesis?
golden urchin
harold is dead
limpid agate
1 - Why would Hammond be in a cage isntead of a room. Its not a size problem. If Susan is a Chimp, Susan should have a room. Hammond we know does not.
regal coyote
cause we know ALL of them are gorillas except ONE, and if you think those are chimps we get extra chimps out of nowhere. or do you think chimps can evolve into gorillas given enough levels and amoon stone? is this pokemon now?
golden urchin
hammond could have been a troublemaker
valid shell
Harold is kill.
limpid agate
2 - If Hammond is a chimp, and went missing for a week. Why does no one care. Especially since the previous email said that they need to be very cautious around the gorillas.
golden urchin
was that english
limpid agate
Large Caution vs No one caring for a week
Is a huge gap
Too big for Gorilla to Chimp
If a chimpanzee goes missing for a week
That is something that more than one person would care about
dire timber
@golden urchin dead until stated otherwise, I concede that - I just think he's got a slight chance being revealed to be alive at some point
dire timber
as opposed to other dead characters, who have zero chance
runic scroll
i think any specimen going missing for a week would be a big concern though
golden urchin
doubt they had a tiny specimen like that
what research where they even doing
with monkeys,,, in space,,,
runic scroll
science
limpid agate
@runic scroll I dont think people would care about a rat, a rabbit, or a cat
Compared to some kind of ape or monkey
golden urchin
he was a type of monkey
limpid agate
Source
golden urchin
there was no way they had different species
??? every other specimen was a monkey?
regal coyote
WRONG, if it is a cat it would not be in a cage to start with
cats/dogs would be outside
runic scroll
monkey is a subset of primates
golden urchin
on space?
runic scroll
just saying
regal coyote
so something not as "human friendly"
limpid agate
There is no outside on the moon
golden urchin
yeah lmao
regal coyote
outside as in roaming around the quarters.
golden urchin
not necessarily
regal coyote
like how workspace cats are theya re free. and people have affection to cats and dogs so they would care
golden urchin
but like how messed up does their experiments have to be if it caused winston to talk
regal coyote
so it is something less affection to humans
dire timber
why didn't the monkeys have tranquilizer implants, anyways
regal coyote
so if it were a cat it would be tagging along the scientists, and they would knw where it is. so did a dog.
dire timber
it seems like something you'd do when experimenting on monkeys like that
regal coyote
my guess is that it is those animls that does nto need much out-of-cage time traditionally
though i myself let my ham out all the time
golden urchin
what happened to all of the other specimen when the airlock door opened
dire timber
... nevermind, I'm engaging in the kind of story-killing nitpicking that I usually despise
but still, if we were being practical
tranquilizer implants would be a good idea
regal coyote
hammond disabled the kill switch (if you want to go that route)
dire timber
@golden urchin they do have tracking devices
golden urchin
then why were they not able to locate hammond
does anyone know why winston escaped in the first place
regal coyote
hammond too small to wear a tracker
golden urchin
he seemed pretty happy with dr. winston
runic scroll
it's probably just within the building or something
runic scroll
or "tracking" to the degree that they know whether or not the tracked specimen is within the colony or not
golden urchin
and?
we have tracking devices in dogs and cats that can track them from any place basically
runic scroll
like that screen showing winston and hammond are missing from the colony
golden urchin
if they were on the moon they most likely set up satellites
dire timber
uh, why though?
golden urchin
??? its colonized???
dire timber
they didn't expect them to ever go outside the colony
golden urchin
so they can receive transmissions?
golden urchin
ok
regal coyote
yes there are relay settelites on moon
dire timber
tracking devices and communications are completely different types of infrastructure
regal coyote
but to locate and triangulate you need at least 3 sets, which i dont think they ahve
also to track location or something a few wifi like system would do
we can do that now with a few wifi ap
dire timber
I think tracking devices were an internal system - functioning inside the colony, and within the immediate vicinity
dire timber
yep
regal coyote
so when ape winston goes into escape pot for earth, it is out of range
dire timber
... escape pot
regal coyote
as for hammond, either he heads for earth or not, whatever it is he may be too smll for a full tracker on him