Biotic field
#lore-discussion
buoyant thunder
valid shell
Not Biotic Field, but we do see those kind of 'batteries' in a lot of armor.
Like Strike Commander, and Captain Amari, and all the Overwatch agents in Legacy.
And a smaller version in Blackwatch Reyes.
buoyant thunder
@valid shell How does Soldier’s gun work?
buoyant thunder
And Helix Rockets
ivory imp
Maybe concentrated bursts of energy
valid shell
I doubt we'll ever know what pulse munitions are, other than Future™ Bullets from Future™ Inc.
buoyant thunder
O thank you mighty Binge
Without your knowledge we would never learn
Let your face always be looking at screens
valid shell
np bb
echo snow
I thought pulse munitions were a concept from another series that's been explained in that series
dense estuary
Aliens had Pulse Rifles but they were never explained
trail geyser
Aliens?
dense estuary
probably the first main stream scifi to mention that kind of weapon
tbh I think we are best just calling it bullets from the future
but if one wanted to apply current theories it could just mean caseless ammo that is ignited with an electrical pulse vs firing pin and primer
valid shell
That's most likely.
dire timber
Aliens pulse rifles seemed to act like ballistics, lol
cunning ledge
My theory on pulse weapons is that they are literally just energy and usually they can be recharged on the spot like tracer's pistols (although there's possibly something about the chronal accelerator there)
the heavy pulse rifle needs physical battery packs because it's a prototype
and the call of duty man needs a reload that involves slamming something into a gun, obviously
terse oak
So is the idea that Tracer just reverses times and puts the bullets back in her gun a falsehood/
hidden grove
S76 has a pulse rifle that cant recharge on the spot so i think tracer is just special
valid shell
I don't see how they could have fucked it up, but 'Pulse Pistols' might be a misnomer.
I don't know.
cunning ledge
in the source book
it mentions that the guns are connected to the CA
but y'know that's the source book
the one that primarily serves to explain the gameplay however it can for whatever reason
there's also D.Va's fusion cannons but I'm pretty sure those are supposed to be a weaponised nuclear reactor or something
valid shell
If Tracer fires physical rounds, then having them vanish from inside enemy bodies would be weird, but if her Pulse Pistols are energy weapons, then just having the vague, amorphous "energy" rewind in time works better.
valid shell
Dunno if 'linked to the CA' means the rounds rewind in time, it might just be a convenient energy source.
cunning ledge
that's what I'd rather believe, too
gaunt spear
Hey
valid shell
@gaunt spear Ye?
quasi schooner
I believe that any charge on the spot guns are modified OR-1? Guns as I f you look at an OR-14/Orissa gun it does a similar thing to tracer/Winston/mercy
quasi schooner
Not orissas OR-14 skin, I thought an OR14 was also energy, but NVM. Dvas gun does a similar thing, but hers it nuclear battery charged, right?
valid shell
Yeah, D.Va's guns operate on whatever fusion they're getting from the generator she detonates when she ults.
And her pistol has magazines.
quasi schooner
Thought so. They can’t be too different as the energy looks similar. Also is Winston the same as tracer or does his charge with a Tesla?
valid shell
I don't think Winston's gun is comparable to anything else, since he made it himself.
But maybe it's in the same vein as Tracer's equipment.
Since he also designed that.
quasi schooner
Yeh, but tracers pulse bomb is his old shield gen, so could it be that any WOW energy gun is unrelated to omnic in any way and all made by Winston?
*and not but
valid shell
I don't think Tracer's pulse bombs stem from Winston's failed shield generators.
quasi schooner
If you look at recall its the same thing basically isn’t it?
valid shell
https://i.gyazo.com/d021edab50fe0bdfe0de2e7e1dfba904.png
https://i.gyazo.com/c87689adb27276048c3b99c2f19247a9.png
Dawg you gotta stop making me do all the leg work for you. Cx
quasi schooner
I can’t tell what the second one is.
versed shuttle
is that one from alive?
valid shell
Yes.
quasi schooner
valid shell
Not even close to Winston's shield gen.
https://i.gyazo.com/0258e84d77eaffb65b289d3925210e56.png
https://i.gyazo.com/ab5fabb2a22f0193d8160a4f7a36d40c.png
Sure, I guess I could have just used the reference kits from the beginning.
But where's the fun in that.
quasi schooner
Found some good pics BTW, I’ll DM them. Home taken off of 1080 60
regal coyote
Actually we do not know how much modification is involved between OR-14 and OR-14NS
Same goes for the actual difference between OR-15 and orisa. We know orisa is an upgrade.
But when it coems to or-14ns it may not be an upgrade at all, maybe just a simplified version, or whatever it is. so maybe there IS a difference between or-14 and NS.
at the very least, NS seem to lack the heat-saber
dire timber
OR-14
- Fortification
- Hard-light blade
- Rotary cannon
- Power storage unit (looks like a Supercharger)
OR-14-NS
- Fortification
- Hard-light blade
- Rotary cannon
- Barrier projector (used to defend the power station)
- Power storage unit (looks like a Supercharger)
OR-15
- Fortification (?)
- Fusion-based rotary cannon
- Barrier projector
- Power storage unit (looks like a Supercharger)
Orisa
- Fortification
- Fusion-based rotary cannon
- Barrier projector
- Tobelstein reactor (Halt!)
- Supercharger
my personal take on OR units
valid shell
I have no idea if it's just me, but I really love Orisa's family tree.
I would like to see more iterations of the OR series.
zenith hill
konichiwazzup
valid shell
@zenith hill ?
zenith hill
just saying hi
terse oak
Don't shitpost in this channel
dire timber
I like OR14s and OR15s too, but I don't know if I'd like to see any others
still, what we've already got is great
I just wish OR15s got more spotlight - they never got any cool moments, they just went down like punks
it'd be cooler if they started out introduced as this benevolent-but-intimidating security force of Numbani
and only got trashed later
... instead, they were introduced as already trashed
valid shell
I feel like they were nerfed in-universe into being Baymax-esque softbots.
dire timber
they still got powerful guns and firm armor
which did qualify them for dealing with ordinary threats
but otherwise... yeah, probably
zenith hill
Uhh speaking of which when r we gonna get an Omnic Crisis Orisa skin as shown in the Rein cinematic
zenith hill
not counting Null Sector
zenith hill
Bastion has both null and omnic crisis skins
zenith hill
😐 I'm talking about Orisa
zenith hill
a'ight
dire timber
low axle
I think the closet you'll get is the null sector ones for the time being.
Though I would like the color scheme from the honor and glory vid
for an or skin
zenith hill
I have uno question
what's the difference between null sector and the omnic crisis models?
low axle
color
zenith hill
they both have the same cause/ambition
low axle
Then again Blizzard could just be using them as general stand ins
and might flesh em out more in detail later
Now what would be interesting is seeing ANY of these events from the Omnics PoV
zenith hill
does the color depend on which god program they emanate from?
low axle
God Programs are a red herring.
low axle
I mean don't get me wrong I like the idea, but blizzard seems to lack interest in pushing it in that direction.
Well the only God AI we know about is Anubis and he could very be unique
We simply don't know
very well*
zenith hill
we need campaign mode
low axle
Alot of oflks been asking for that.
zenith hill
something to ascend the lore even further
valid shell
Since release, and Blizzard has been very clear about it.
zenith hill
I don't feel like waiting every year for archive events
valid shell
These events are the best we're getting as far as PVE goes.
zenith hill
bummer
low axle
Yea but Blizzard is prone to changing there minds if popular demand gets high enough
Remember the We wont add Pandarian to wow kick since vanilla..
3 expacs later..
zenith hill
needless to say OW is the only blizzard game I occupy
valid shell
They had Pandaren slated for BC, but axed them at the last minute.
Anyways, looking at how much manpower Blizz is dumping into OWL, they're not going to focus on single player stuff.
low axle
Really BC i thought Ogres were the scrapped race for that
zenith hill
because they had layers
low axle
hmm oh well
cedar galleon
What are the odds that summer games does sonething different this year
The exact same thing 3 years in a row might set a bad precedent
low axle
Dunno. But I bet Tracer gets a new skin. She needs them they never do new tracer skins
low axle
yes:P
valid shell
K good.
cedar galleon
Lool
valid shell
@cedar galleon I hope we'll get a new dopey sporty arcade mode.
cedar galleon
Me too man
valid shell
Like DF boxing.
cedar galleon
On a new map!
low axle
yanno Binge I was just thhinking that!
Or a Track outfit for lucio
Tennis Rein. Giant Tennis Racket..
silly but you know it sounds awesome
cedar galleon
It could even be lucio still just a different sport
Racing
For some reason I imagine blizzardworld a good setting for it
low axle
Yanno what one obvious one is I am surprised they didn't do..A Hanzo one..cause Archery is still an olympic sport isn't it?
dire timber
bah
low axle
could just getLucio a Team Brasil soccar skin too
cedar galleon
Didnt he get that the first summer game?
quasi schooner
Change of topic but: a while ago there was an argument about tracer straddling widow in alive (please let me know if there is a better way of putting that 😫) but tracer is lesb, and widow has no emotion. It may look weird but it is perfectly fine. Continue the old conversation if you want.
low axle
I saw that as less sexual more of her just pinning her
since yanno she just assasinated someone
quasi schooner
Ik, it IS pinning her but A LOT of people see it as dodgy
quasi schooner
Couldn’t remember the word, but she likes women I’ll change it if I feel like it. Also don’t know how family friendly this is supposed to be
valid shell
Vaguely bringing up something controversial that other people said doesn't really make for great conversation.
terse oak
^
neat current
^^
buoyant thunder
^^^
low axle
But yea I think Tracer tackling and pinning her was more attempt to restrain her..Or her just freaking out. Either or. Non-sexual
terse oak
Indeed, let's move on
low axle
o.O
dire timber
shipping culture is godawful
cunning ledge
no strikethrough needed there
iron plume
i mean
you may not want to date them
low axle
I ship Brig and Hana >.>
limpid agate
Shipposting is shitposting
regal coyote
not canon but still nice artwork fromofficial cheaper blizzard games
to be fair there is some semi-canon ship here
dire timber
and still no hint of anything Overwatch-related
regal coyote
like genji-mercy ... as much as most of us (and lord jeff) prefers phar-mercy
cunning ledge
hamster pls
dire timber
Genji/Mercy is supported by canon, but they're not in a relationship currently
regal coyote
indeed
dire timber
Mercy/Pharah is gameplay-based nonsense
which is also kinda creepy since Mercy already knew Farreha when she was a 12 year old
dire timber
... new age?
regal coyote
yes from the bir incident they seem to have changed mercy's age
iron plume
but it's still weird if you knew them as a child
dire timber
... the bir incident?
regal coyote
the part where torby is writing letter
regal coyote
letter comments mercy giving a visit to a damaged torby as a student
iron plume
The brigitte change was to brigitte
from 28 to 23
Mercy was always 37 in all official media
regal coyote
you got it the other around mercy seems younger now
dire timber
uh
iron plume
wdym "seems"
dire timber
Mercy's age wasn't changed
regal coyote
check the post on torby, it s
iron plume
what post
dire timber
... it wasn't changed.
iron plume
There is nothing in the letter about Mercy's age
regal coyote
well before mercy joined ow already, now at the time of brig's birth she is still a student
iron plume
well it did change with Brigitte's "fix"
but that changes Brigitte's placement, not Mercy's
present-day mercy was always 37
dire timber
nope, still didn't, White Dome was always said to be set 23 years ago
the only change
was Brigitte's age
regal coyote
wait. you are right
iron plume
where was it said about white dome?
except for brigitte's age
dire timber
which was changed in accordance to White Dome
regal coyote
it only change the brig's age, as well at the first time mercy had contact with ow
iron plume
we've had like a whole thing speculating about when white dome would be
regal coyote
also mercy's msot likely relation with torby's wife
limpid agate
@iron plume White Dome happened while Ingrid was pregnant with Brig
Brig is 23
Therefore
WHite Dome was 23 years ago
dire timber
... I'm sure it was explicitly stated to be 23
iron plume
Yeah I'm aware
I'm saying where other than Brigitte
Because Brigitte's age was changed
limpid agate
It doesnt need to be anywhere else. Its just where Brig's age is
iron plume
and Slig is saying we always knew WD to be 23 years ago
iron plume
Slignerd - Today at 7:48 PM nope, still didn't, White Dome was always said to be set 23 years ago the only change(edited) was Brigitte's age
regal coyote
depending on stages of pregnancy it can even be 24 years ago but i dont think that is important
iron plume
I know it was 23 because of Brigitte
But Brigitte's bio was changed from 28 to 23
dire timber
hm, maybe I misremembered
lavish rune
When is summer games and when is anniversary
And also what special mode is on anniversary
limpid agate
Anniversary is may
Summer Games is August
Neither bring lore.
Or at least, Anniversary didn't last year
Summer Games never did
hollow timber
dance emotes = lore 😉
limpid agate
No they dont
hollow timber
you can't tell me grumpy reaper foot tap and torbjorn foot dance doesn't tell us a lot about their personalities.
limpid agate
Oh, I didn't realize we didn't know Reaper was grumpy up until May 2017
hollow timber
Sure, and I didn't realize we didn't know Reinhardt liked to fight and drink until Honor and Glory came out... oh wait.
limpid agate
You done?
Emotes and voice lines being added to the game isnt lore
They all show off personality
hollow timber
Personality is part of lore.... hell half the complaints in here are that we don't have information about certain heroes personalities.
All Honor and Glory did was show off personality, it had no story that we didn't already know, but you still got all excited over it. Let us be excited over emotes and voice lines.
limpid agate
No, it doesnt. Its just Brigitte
You can be excited for the event
But tis not lore
hollow timber
I don't know why I even come here anymore. Apparently random lines on weapons that some dumbass thinks are bar codes count as lore, but actual blizzard content that directly helps us interpret the heroes and their actions doesn't?
cunning ledge
anniversary had the new 3v3 maps, right?
not as part of the event
but maybe they'll make it a thing to add 3v3 maps with that event
hollow timber
Yes, they were added the same time as the event, but they weren't event specific.
cunning ledge
those were great for lore
limpid agate
Yeah, the maps were
cunning ledge
actually hang on
the maps were in the event video
and it's not like the event had a particular theme anyway
hollow timber
So fingers crossed for more maps?
cunning ledge
it's probably safe to say that the anniversary update will have some amount of maps
given that it was just "hey there's been cool stuff for a year have some more cool stuff"
hollow timber
And doomfist dance 😄
cunning ledge
watching the video reminds me that they literally just stole various assets from various maps to build a disco room for the end
neat current
im sad because i was hoping for a good doomfist skin for anniversary but hes just got one so hes like the last hero on the list to get one
(also because hes not popular and not likely to get skins akin to more popular heroes like mercy, genji or tracer)
valid shell
That's not really how it works.
peak escarp
getting a skin in one event doesn't prevent a hero from getting one in the next event
McCree got Lifeguard in Summer Games and then Van Helsing at Halloween
valid shell
The reason Doomfist has gotten so few skins is because he's still pretty new, on the scale of the entire roster.
It took a while before Ana started getting decent skins.
wraith spear
took a year + a few months to get a legendary
valid shell
On DF? Or Ana?
frosty shell
doomfist hasnt been out for a yar
valid shell
@frosty shell He just said he meant Ana.
frosty shell
yeah
valid shell
yeah
cunning ledge
Still feel like they missed the opportunity to have Savior and/or Scourge skins
there's no way they don't realise the potential for that, right?
dire timber
I wish Ana got a Talon Sniper skin
cunning ledge
I wish we had got basically anything lore related that isn't pajamei
or something actually canon instead of the lucio skin
bit of a shame that there's no chance for any of the talon boiz to be skins ever again, too
I'm still skeptical that it might have looked too much like Widowmaker
but it probably would have worked tbh
low axle
Still waiting for a Talon Tank 😛 Some AU skins would be nice. Where the Overwatch guys are talon and vice versa
Widowmaker a heroic Sniper that left when her husband was killed for failing a mission or something o.o that style kinda
cunning ledge
HotS has a load of those and they're pretty neat
rustic yoke
I would have been ok if they gave us a talon trooper skin for soldier 76
cunning ledge
even considering the trouble there could be with making widowmaker look like an overwatch agent, it's a genuine possibility
especially with how much the community asks for it
low axle
I just think it would be cool. Have Doomfist in that AU be the defender of Numbani kinda a reverse of hte Main universe doomfist progression
low axle
Yanno an Evil Winston could be interesting too..like in that uni he lead the rebellion on the moon
ponders making a forum post now
valid shell
Whatever event we got Cyberninja Hanzo would be the bracket to do it.
cunning ledge
^
peak escarp
that was Anniversary
cunning ledge
@SpaceDuck#6948 you mean Hammond
frosty shell
Maybe one where the Omnics won the Crisis?
and Overwatch became like whatever John Connor's forces are
low axle
Oooo or an Omnic skin for some of our heroes
to show a world without humans
Ironically make Zen a human skin as the last one standing
o.o
low axle
That'd be neat. Could have the Mech when Omnic D.Va uses call mech actually connect to her peice by piece
valid shell
You used that joke earlier.
limpid agate
Though it is worth mentioning
Every hero in the game has received a legendary after Tracer's most recent legendaryu
valid shell
@limpid agate Do you have an updated skin chart?
limpid agate
Ooh I forgot
Pink Mercy
Legendary Skins:
4 - Brigitte
5 - Moira
6 - Symmetra, Ana, Orisa, Doomfist
7 - Zenyatta, Bastion, Junkrat, Winston, Sombra
8 - Soldier, Reinhardt, D.Va, Roadhog, Genji, McCree, Pharah, Hanzo
9 - Torbjorn, Reaper, Lucio, Mercy
10 - Tracer, Zarya, Widowmaker
11 - Mei
valid shell
Symmetra's suffering as far as the OG roster goes.
Just Oasis and Dargon since launch.
limpid agate
Yup
Winston is also in a pretty bad spot
His only skin since YotR was almost universally hated.
limpid agate
I can see them giving Ana, Zen, Junkrat, and Rein skins
At the very least
Id be surprised if Tracer still doesnt get a legendary.
Also, here's a weird detail
Mercy has moles on her back in Pink
And not on her other legendaries with exposed backs
white cobalt
I noticed that, maybe because designer?
peak escarp
I think it's in reference to the fact that new moles/beauty marks can actually be melanomas, and should be checked for cancer
probably not a canon detail on Mercy's back
runic scroll
oh snap maybe
lol
maybe she also has pancreatic cancer but she just doesn't know it
i kind of wish reaper's soldier 24 skin wasn't actually named that
because it probably means jack was actually 76, and not named 76 because of his jacket
which would mean jack probably picked that jacket because "oh hey cool! i'm 76! gotta get this jacket now!"
i would have much preferred that he just wore that jacket with zero consideration to the number on the back, but was nicknamed after it
limpid agate
^
Agreed
Theres just so many coincidental variables now that it feels really silly
Soldier 76 Jack Morrison has collected a jacket with 76 on it, and is named by the police as "Soldier 76"
hasty surge
Would Jack has left a clue or smth for the media/police to call him that?
Or maybe his persona is just so like a soldier?
I actually think Jack might have deliberately source fpr a Jack with a 76 on it
Unless it was like Jewvia said, he just saw the jacket with the number 76 and liked it immediately
buoyant thunder
Zenyatta is named after The Police album
cunning ledge
@VividHalf#6622 yeah that was a big point of discussion (ranting?) when that was announced
It fit his character theme so much better when it was meaningless
limpid agate
@runic scroll
cunning ledge
Thanks
I always thought it was kinda cool that most of the world refers to him literally by a number but in-game Ana calls him Jack
Although I do wish that at some point she's referred to as Shrike in-game
Maybe even as just a character swap voice line with that skin
"Shrike is here"
And it would have a mild filter because she'd disguise her voice(?)
Possibly that's going too far from clarity
cunning ledge
Ah well
Let's assume her voice isn't that distinctive among old Egyptian women then I suppose
I still think they should have kept 76's filtered voice from we are overwatch tbh
silk nova
You know what would be great? If they revealed a Zenyatta cinematic at Blizzcon. Or sooner even. #GiveZenyattaLore
limpid agate
Gamescom is your sooner
hidden grove
And then you get baited and we get a brigitte or orisa cinematic
hasty surge
I'm actually surprised they called Ana Ana and not Strike
peak escarp
same
14 heroes go by their real names, 13 go by aliases or codenames
so it's about half and half
but I like codenames better
cunning ledge
McCree is also the only real name user who doesn't use their first name
iron plume
does Zarya count?
cunning ledge
(Actually wasn't Reaper renamed Reyes in the event I guess that counts)
iron plume
it's basically her name
iron plume
magazine cover has full name I'm pretty sure
cunning ledge
Winston is just Winston
I know what you mean
It was taken from a second name
But still
As for Mei I have no idea if the Mei part of Mei-Ling Zhou is technically a surname
iron plume
from reading up, they do put family names first
but also Mei-Ling is an unusual construct for one
terse oak
@iron plume My therapist is called Mei and she's Chinese
But I assume it's possible to use the first name
iron plume
I'm not talking about Mei itself, that's not strange
it's the double syllable/double word construct that's uncommon
iron plume
nah i didn't specifically mention it
quasi schooner
It did require BG/previous knowledge from somewhere else
quasi schooner
I don’t know much about the AI side of things. Where did Athena come from?
cunning ledge
no idea
all we know is that she is currently in control of the Gibraltar base and also has a presence in the dropships
presumably she was also there in the glory days of Overwatch
but we don't know
silk nova
There's not a whole lot of info on Athena, unfortunately
cunning ledge
there's also that art of a robot body that's clearly athena in a physical form
but that's not been seen in actual lore yet
quasi schooner
I think she has a part in the space base and ecopoint: Antarctica aswell, or was she moved there by Winston?
quasi schooner
Training
cunning ledge
?
the tutorial?
that's in gibraltar too iirc
or at least it heckin looks like it
quasi schooner
🤔 nvm then
cunning ledge
I also have a theory that the training range is in russia
quasi schooner
?
cunning ledge
but there's no athena there anyway
quasi schooner
Why?
cunning ledge
the holo maps in gibraltar and the dropships have a marker near russia
and there's ice around it
cunning ledge
they are just one specific battlefield
with the areas that the omnics have advanced to clearly marked
worthy heron
Whoa
regal coyote
when did athena start to function though
frosty shell
athena's also in the orcas narrating the objectives
cunning ledge
"no idea
all we know is that she is currently in control of the Gibraltar base and also has a presence in the dropships"
yes
regal coyote
so far we did not see her in any flashbacks
as for orca she might just be connected to it remotely
frosty shell
I have a feeling she was supposed to have been created by Winston
wet spruce
I hope we get some cool lore skins for this years anniversary event but based on last year they seem to do more "what-if" and "alternate history" skins
worthy rose
tracer and widow share the same model but widow is taller
I tested it with cross-linking eachother
peak escarp
. . . what?
worthy rose
made a post about is too
peak escarp
they look nothing alike
frosty shell
he's probably talking about the rig
worthy rose
yeah, the rigging
frosty shell
which makes sense, they are both humans with the same skeletal structure
echo snow
That's cool, but it's also not lore...
low axle
I wanna see the story where MCcree gets his robot hand. I was hoping it would happen during retribution
peak escarp
he still had his hand a year later during Uprising though
thin ridge
thatd be pretty cool to see
white cobalt
We already know the story of Ana's eye, Torb's hand, Rein's eye, why not McCree's hand.
peak escarp
agreed
I really want to know what happened, and when it happened
was it before or after he left Overwatch?
winter valve
It's a glove
peak escarp
several sources confirmed it is a cybernetic arm
valid shell
I moreso want to know how Symmetra got her arm.
Since Ana, Reinhardt, Torbjorn, McCree, etc. are all conventional combatants.
While Symmetra's situation is unique.
Same with Doomfist. Sure, he lost it during the Crisis, but I want to know what a 15 year old was doing in the line of fire.
Trying to punch an OR-14, probably.
low axle
well he probably didn't have much of a choice Doomfist that is. The Omnics were attacking population centers
limpid agate
For Doomfist, I assumed he was a soldier
He didn't have to be 15
If the crisis lasted 5 years
He could have been 18 or 20 or something
peak escarp
do we know how long the crisis lasted/when it started?
limpid agate
No
white cobalt
He could be a kid too, like some countries in Africa kidnapped some kids, but i think that topic could be controversial for Blizz
peak escarp
I thought dates on that were conflicting
peak escarp
so it lasted at least 7 years
limpid agate
Those are ranges
It could have been 33-28 years ago
Could be 30-29
Could be 31-24
We dont know
We just know dates where the crisis was already happening, and was already over
buoyant thunder
Lord Jeff doesn’t want us to know
valid shell
They keep things vague so that "everyone's headcanons can be viable!"
But for people like us who really crunch on the details, it's infuriating.
peak escarp
the problem with "everyone's headcanons can be viable!" is that most people's headcanons suck
limpid agate
The story in the player's heads is often even cooler than what we can deliver to them
echo snow
I think part of it is a marketing technique
Everyone's going to come up with their own stories that they are happy with for whatever game they're playing. Going with that flow means they don't risk making large portions of their playerbase upset by introducing something important that contradicts popular opinion
peak escarp
I can't think of any other game (that already has its own lore) that lets the fans write their own lore
echo snow
Ever read a fanfiction? People come up with all sorts of things
limpid agate
Sure
Fanfiction exists
And some people even promote fanfiction in their own way
But I can't think of a single game where the devs deliberately cancel content or hide large chunks of story specifically because of headcanon.
Like First Strike
Why was First Strike cancelled?
If we go down this path, it really closed all these doors.
echo snow
There are some tropes on the subject
I will say that cancelling First Strike was rather extreme, but the idea isn't new
limpid agate
Those aren't quite the same thing
The first one falls under things like what's in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction
The latter is more about fan concepts that became canon.
echo snow
I think the first one is close enough
The Undertale example sounds a lot like what Overwatch is doing
limpid agate
If you look at the first as
Things that don't have an answer intentionally
Like Pyro's gender
Overwatch's aversion of details is...
echo snow
The trope description covers a few things, of which that is one
limpid agate
When was the crisis? How long ago was it? Fuck if I know, but that aint the type of shit that closes off fanfiction. And refusing to show the organization of Overwatch, and how it was formed, because it wouldn't live up to headcanon, is a ridiculous excuse.
If they wanted to play something like, what does Reaper look like under the mask, or how human is he, and leave that unanswered, that's fine. Its one of those mysteries that feels like it should be mysterious, and doesn't need a full answer
But basic things
Like when did the lore we already got actually happen
Everything is compressed into vague relatives with large ranges
And by not putting any thought or answers into these things
You get shit like Searching which makes negative chronological sense
You get shit like Brigitte and Mercy's ages brimming with questions, not out of an interest to know why, but out of an interest to know how the fuck does that make sense
And things like Brazil's timeline. What happened. Did Lucio actually do anything? Does Vishkar still run the show? Because her comic was supposed to take place the same as all those other comics according to Chu, but that means that all the Lucio pushing out Vishkar happened in how short a time frame? If at all?
If they keep making more lore while pushing a mentality of "I don't have an answer for this detail", you get problems that snowball out of control until you have an entire timeline of events compressed into the span of months, where A happens before B, B happens before C, and C happens before A
echo snow
Well, right now we have the opposite problem, in that it's seemingly been a year since the Recall and nada
limpid agate
Most of the examples in that TVTropes article are things left intentionally vague for a reason. What Overwatch is doing is leaving things vague because they dont like thinking about details, and end up writing themselves into a corner
And half of this "PR Talk" that we get about the lore sounds more like the authors not wanting to admit they fucked up.
It's a common misconception.
It's a specific, contained story.
It's not like they are new to retcon
Warcraft is riddled with it
valid shell
Seethes about Goblin lore.
low axle
still has the WC 1 instruction books where blackhands controlled by sex o.o
peak escarp
where A happens before B, B happens before C, and C happens before A
like figuring out the order between Recall, Alive and the museum heist
limpid agate
Or Masquerade, Searching, Orisa
peak escarp
I like to be optimistic and think they have a proper timeline thought out and back at the office everything makes sense
but it's getting harder and harder to think that
limpid agate
If that were true, we wouldnt have these conversations
peak escarp
my thought is that we just don't have the whole picture
low axle
They could even keep the history muddled...I'd just like to see the Modern era of overwatch laid out properly.
peak escarp
there's some clue being withheld from us that clarifies everything
just getting an order of events since Recall would be enough for me
historical stuff can stay vague and mysterious
peak escarp
I'm fine knowing only what the public knows about Overwatch's history
low axle
Like I assume Alive. Did that happen post recall?
peak escarp
which is what I assume they're going for
I've always assumed that Alive takes place after Recall, but someone pointed out to me that in the Brazil-Portuguese dub you can hear more of the news broadcast Winston is watching, and the reporter mentions Mondatta speaking "tonight" in London
low axle
Hmm so perhaps the same day
peak escarp
is that the same rally he gets assassinated at? is that the same night as Recall?
or is that a different rally/speech, and Alive does happen later
limpid agate
The 4 shorts are said to be around the same time
low axle
I would gamble that Dragons happens after Recall
given the way genji tells hanzo he has a choice.
peak escarp
in Hero, Soldier takes out Los Muertos thugs who are setting up for the celebration/riot that would happen when the Dorado power plant goes online on November 1st
so unless they're setting up really early, that would have to be late October
peak escarp
I think those 4 shorts take place over the same summer/fall
within a few months of each other
but not at the same time
low axle
Where he wakes up?
low axle
wow
so he was like in the woods
for a decade
at least
before Torb sets out to hunt him
peak escarp
so Bastion has been wandering for 10-15 years
limpid agate
Bastion's timeline makes no sense
peak escarp
probably avoided people
limpid agate
He's been wandering for 10-20 years, he's had Ganymede with him for all these years, and even when we slowly walked through a fuckin sea, Ganymede somehow followed him through all that
peak escarp
until some Swedish teens got frisky in the woods
limpid agate
And thats before Sweden forgot who Torbjorn was
limpid agate
Probably the first
That's the type of thing
That the whole Shrug of God applies to
peak escarp
if that never got explained it would not bother me
limpid agate
A detail they'll leave out and it doesnt change much.
low axle
well they can make laser turrets with hardlight...why not a machine that doesn't need fuel lol
peak escarp
back to the timeline, the first 6 comics all seem to fall into that same summer/fall period just after Recall too
Legacy gives us a flashback, Old Soldiers is the first to really progress the plot (although it doesn't give us much)
limpid agate
Infiltration moved the story forwards
peak escarp
Infiltration and Masquerade have given us the most forward progression so far
limpid agate
The others were all flashbacks, or followups on Recall that still lead to nothing substantial, and probably wont for a long time
As for comics
Old Soldiers, Binary, and Masquerade moved us forwards
limpid agate
Searching had no plot
It was a waste of time that might as well not exist
It only exists to make Zarya hate omnics less
And she still ended up right where she started
Frontline of the second crisis, fighting omnics that repulse her because they're mindless killing machines.
She just likes Lynx and distrusts Katya.
But she is where she started
Nothing moved forwards
peak escarp
it had good potential, but the writers kinda blew it
valid shell
Everything has more potential than what we got.
Like the reason for Brigitte's name.
peak escarp
conclusion: Chu should write more comics
limpid agate
Nah
peak escarp
he was the writer on Old Soldiers and Masquerade
he's moving the story forward more than the other writers
limpid agate
Matt Robinson does decent work too
He made Brigitte, did Binary.
And Robert Brooks doesn't move forwards, but his stories are still consistent
Train Hopper, Going Legit, Wasted Land
peak escarp
Binary was Matt Burns
limpid agate
Yeah.
peak escarp
the others are hit and miss
limpid agate
I like Brooks
They're good comics
Going Legit and Train Hopper were two of the best from the original 6
candid silo
Legacy is 2017 not 2016
limpid agate
No
Its 2016
July 2016
Legacy is the Ana flashback where she gets shot
You're probably thinking of Uprising
limpid agate
I like Bengal.
He made a couple goofy faces
But they're the good kind of goofy
Not
1 sec
peak escarp
not some of Shuko's best work
limpid agate
peak escarp
I like the artist that did Masquerade, but I don't think Ryan Benjamin has done any other comics
we don't know who wrote the animated shorts, do we?
peak escarp
according to imdb, it was Matt Burns and James Waugh for Recall and Alive
Andrew Robinson for the rest of them
no idea if that's accurate
if it's true, it continues the trend of Burns being an excellent writer and Robinson being inconsistent
this article goes into the time frame between Recall and Alive
and if Alive is just a few hours after Recall, it would explain why Tracer was in such a good mood at the beginning
I'm starting to loosen my deathgrip on the idea that the museum heist happens between Recall and Alive
I hadn't seen some of these clues before
now I'm thinking about it too much
the clock on Big Ben shows that Alive happens between 5:05pm and 5:15pm
for it to be dark at that time in London, it would have had to happen in winter
echo snow
which directly contradicts Mei's journal
peak escarp
how does that contradict her journal?
her journal starts in October
Recall could have happened in February earlier that year
but from the lighting during the time lapse of Mei building her gun, you can see the sun rise and set
Antarctica doesn't have night between December and February
the simple answer is that the animators didn't think about this 😛
echo snow
It couldn't have, because Rise and Shine happened at the same time as the Recall
It's highly unlikely that six months passed between Mei's awakening and her actually doing work
peak escarp
she could have been under observation
by the time Mei starts her journal she's famous enough to be known
"A little bit about me: my name is Mei (yes, that Mei!)"
so her story would have hit the news and been widespread
and she's been cooped up in a lab for weeks before starting her journal for whatever reason
"I was feeling a little antsy after being cooped up in the research facility the last couple of weeks, so I chose to trek on foot instead."
it would make sense for someone who has been in unsupervised cryosleep for 9 years to undergo examinations and medical checkups to make sure there were no ill effects
plus she had 9 years worth of data to analyse - she probably prioritized that over going to explore other research facilities
so not getting started for six months could actually make sense
echo snow
That... is a good point
peak escarp
Mei's journal is my favourite text-based piece of lore
I wish they would write some more entries for her
maybe one where she runs into a certain omnic monk in Nepal
valid shell
I'm always disappointed at how few in-universe blogposts they make.
Without pictures, it's pretty much a zero effort loredump.
You'd think Mei's entire storyline could be carried on journal updates.
turbid dirge
valid shell
@turbid dirge I wouldn't describe this channel as 'poppin', young blud.
valid shell
Discussing Mei's journal.
peak escarp
and the lack of text-based lore
you'd think there would be more, considering how low-effort it is compared to comics and animated shorts
I'm beginning to see why most people who make Overwatch timelines just settle for arranging things by year
instead of trying to nail down exactly when and in what order things happened
valid shell
Hell, even A Moment in Crime articles to track the Junkers, McCree, jailbreak Doomfist, etc.
peak escarp
Atlas News articles would be a great way to inform us of in-universe events
and it has the added bonus of the unreliable narrator angle that they seem to love
and wouldn't it be great if the dates on the news posts were the in-universe dates of publication?
not that they would ever do that
worthy rose
Does Pharah know Ana is alive?
She'd have to know who Shrike is, and have her theories on Shrike's aim
dire timber
@peak escarp Mei's journal still gives me that "is this still canon...?" feeling
regal coyote
it should be canon
her wole thing is sorta mentioned in map too, in li jing tower
mostly the food courts
assum she wakes up from recall, takes a few days to build gun, and a couple weeks to go outside to another communicator site and get back to functional civilization.
with the newer tech biological condition observation on mei can be short
hell mei may even provide the bio scanning and accessment in the cryo unit also
now given that, it does mention she field-testing new gear.
sp i assume the few months that happened would be to re-settle. re-integration to the world, get a job (or transfer to new overwatch department, or what is left of it)
i assume while the proper overwatch as an organization as army might have disbanded, but some facility is indeed still running at some capacity, hence power and such for winaton
yes mi mentioned winston so i guess he is not really in hiding from the law or something
also it makes sense for mei to do some research on the dats first, and she also have to catch up on all the info on the real world event she missed, pretty sure she did not ahve time reading those in detail on ecopoint
that, and her first post may not be the first time she is on mission again anyways. from the "that mei" comment i assume she does show up on media, and her survival event is probab;y somewhat well known
So maybe she does some round the world talk shows? makes sense too since it a good way for her to advertise her evnironmental views and her research
worthy rose
what makes you think that the blog is not canon anymore?
dire timber
it's a gut feeling - I don't think any reasonable basis for it
peak escarp
all the lore articles pre-Recall have questionable canonicity
because of how old they are and the fact that they were made using beta information that has since changed
dire timber
yeah, exactly
peak escarp
but I'll still count them until they are directly contradicted by something newer
dire timber
how old is Doomfist, by the way?
people argued about how old he was during the Omnic Crisis
he's 45, huh
lost his arm during the Omnic Crisis
... actually, no
in the aftermath of the Omnic Crisis
but that's a peculiar event, since I doubt he had been younger than 18 years old at the time
which would place the loss of his arm at 27 years ago
@limpid agate
I think it's interesting, since it implies that "30 years ago" is rounded down, rather than up
either that, or aftershocks of the Crisis remained over several years
peak escarp
it probably took a long time for the world to stabilize after the crisis
moreso in some places
all these rounded numbers piss me off
peak escarp
Bastion might not have been built at the start of the crisis
It may have been part of a second/third/etc wave
Before the omniums got shut down/disabled by the strike team
limpid agate
The battle of Eichenwalde was more or less
Exactly 30 years ago
It cant be more
Its either exactly 30 years ago
Or MAYBE 29, but doubtful
So we at least have an earliest possible date for Overwatch's founding, being exactly 30 years ago
lusty vapor
I'd imagine they'll eventually go into overwatches founding and the soldier program, seems too important to leave out
dire timber
@limpid agate what's your basis for that?
as in, how do you know about Eichenwalde being exactly 30 years ago?
regal coyote
i would need proof too
the crisis and its battles might be 30 years ago, but that exact battle? not sure. unless it is something listed with the omnic language in bastion's shots
Also, it was stated that bastion was a production of early on in the crisis, and is of dwarf design (yes i call him dwarf)
later omnic might be designed by AI, completely or at least partially.
come to think of it, what exactly is an omnium anyways?
Yes I knwo the ai operated sentient factory part, with a special energy core, but that is all we know.
cunning ledge
61
possibly 62 if you care more about time passing than blizzard does
but his bio says and will always say 61
lusty vapor
If we want true lore right now
We'd probably have to look over the actual map
How long would it take for that much overgrowth to form?
30 years is a good estimate
regal coyote
no need to be 30 years
really you get that in less than a couple years
really, just a good wet summer with ivy, then their death in winter would make perfect hot bad for regular overgrowth
lusty vapor
It's definitely been over 20 because of Brigitte going wit him there
regal coyote
yes but with other factors it is mroe\
lusty vapor
28-30
regal coyote
we know it is during the real battles, so it is pre doomfist, when doomie is still army
army as in he is still a human with arms
lusty vapor
Reinhardt loves hasselhoff
Nightrocker came out in 1985
He has the long hair which was popular back then
It's 30 years
worthy rose
it is stated that lucio likes some of the tracks that rein listens to, but in hots
regal coyote
i mean, after real player one and those guardians of galaxy music i see kids singing those oldies everyday, and some thinking 80s stuff is magic
i think rein likes 80s stuff, not because he is living deep in it
worthy rose
the typical "80s" music is actually just a new wave genre one
regal coyote
partly his childhood influence yes, but partly he just hipster on when young
lusty vapor
Unless they were German
regal coyote
well, the hoffman got a song in the end of guardians of the galaxy... and with a cosmo the dog cameo even
worthy rose
on the other side I mostly listen to new wave tracks
lusty vapor
I think rein was around whenever it happened
If
Overwatch takes place in our time
I forget if it was or not
regal coyote
rein too young for that really
the whole nightrider and what not
the original, not the remake piece of shit
lusty vapor
Rein isn't too young for that, he's 61
He'd still be young and spry whenever it came out
And Hasselhoff was giant in Germany
low axle
Also theres that snazzy Powersuit/Armor of his.
likes to imagine it has internal speakers where he listens to knight rocker
peak escarp
"Current day" in Overwatch is around 60 years in the future
So Reinhardt would have been born around 2015
Hasselhoff was retro before he was born
peak escarp
The Hoff is still pretty big in Germany
meager wharf
Doesn't Hasselhoff still hit top 50s in Germany?
dire timber
80s stuff in modern media is what appeals to kids most though
which is what gets them into actual 80s stuff
so I'm probably still not wrong
I kinda like retro mixed with modern stuff tbh
just not retro on its own
it's often pretty embarrassing that way
worthy rose
most of 80s and 90s tracks are belong into the new wave genre
dense estuary
lots of great rock&roll came out of the 80s
coral nexus
and metal
nocturne bluff
Hello guys
cunning ledge
greetings
regal coyote
well to be fair lots of crap comes out of the 80s along with the epic ones.
it is just that we only remember the epics
peak escarp
the advantage of listening to older music is that we only get the top 40 hits (unless you go digging for other stuff)
listening to music as it comes out, you end up hearing everything whether it's popular or not
valid shell
#music-discussion
worthy rose
Any predictions for the next hero?
cunning ledge
honestly at this point if it is i'll buy you a loot box
not to say i don't want it to happen
personally I want Sanjay as a talon tank
to set up for the obvious talon event next year
limpid agate
We have 3 slots for that to happen
cunning ledge
yeah
I think he's the only currently existing named character who could fit the talon tank role too
limpid agate
Doesn't help that the other one is Max.
limpid agate
Someone pointed out that suit was probably the Heavy Assault
valid shell
I feel like it was a teaser for Retribution.
valid shell
It doesn't closely match any of the units, but it's also noticeably similar.
Keep in mind that the still from Moira Origins takes place after Retribution, so the armor we see on the screen might be an updated Talon goon.
timid eagle
I would love a new hero that isn't an established character.
That Assassin would be a great idea to have.
As a template for a moveset and a new character.
cunning ledge
The one cool wall stick move is from proto-genji
valid shell
Ehhhhnn as much as the wall clinging and jumping would be a dope mechanic, I wouldn't want another le epic healer-hunter "play maker" offense hero.
cunning ledge
While the dual blades are quite cool visually
I'm not sure how they'd made the moveset different enough from Genji
And yeah as binge said
There's only so many ludicrously high skillcap 1v1 assassins possible
valid shell
I've always wanted a Lost Vikings-eque hero who's a close-knit squad of three characters (with maybe a fourth as the ult).
That would be the only context I'd be okay with the Talon goons reappearing.
cunning ledge
My immediate thought whenever I hear that idea is a robot with three distinct forms
timid eagle
I always wanted a hero that could summon pets, a la nano technology to form a wall, an attack dog, etc.
cunning ledge
Which is, well, yeah
valid shell
I've wanted a beat cop with a robotic dog for a while.
cunning ledge
Although if they bring in Max as a dude who summons mook dudes and somehow pull that off
That would be sweet
valid shell
Smol Omnic with two Omnic beefcake bouncer bodyguards flanking him and tanking would be a striking aesthetic.
Especially if Max has a tommy gun.
Preferably in a saxophone case.
cunning ledge
I've always thought that he has a discreet silenced pistol hidden underneath that suit
A weapon that is actually quiet
Probably a first for overwatch
With how good the sound design is
valid shell
Maybe he can abandon his bodyguards and do some silenced pewpewing or something, I dunno.
I'm just trying to think of a tank concept that isn't already covered, and isn't just BIG GUY.
cunning ledge
I was thinking he'd use them for distraction tactics
Hey what do you think of Sanjay as mister hard light tank guy
He wouldn't just be a big guy
valid shell
I think that would be great.
Have a tank who's physically small, but with passive barrier plating around him.
And I say small in the sense of "not Roadhog/Reinhardt".
cunning ledge
I've thought about this one specific idea far too much
Maybe it's made up of many angular plates that can be individually destroyed
So that instead of having health as only numbers on a bar you have to take down parts of his personal shield
valid shell
And he can strip away his own plates to protect his allies or something?
cunning ledge
I'd also like the design to reinforce that he uses hard light in a more ham fisted way
Like literally his creations look more like brutalist art sculptures than the elegant creations Symmetra comes up with
timid eagle
Ah, I get it.
valid shell
If we are ever going to get Sanjay, this Symmetra rework will be some insight into what to expect.
cunning ledge
@valid shell yeah he could have an ability that moves all his plates to form a rectangular barrier slightly in front of him