Regarding Antonio and Akande, epidermal augmentations are pretty common in transhumanism sci-fi.
#lore-discussion
valid shell
cunning ledge
Antonio especially looks like Adam Jensen to me
valid shell
Yeah.
cunning ledge
Because of the hexagons
valid shell
cobalt bobcat
Equal parts brilliant and controversial, scientist Moira O'Deorain is on the cutting edge of genetic engineering, searching for a way to rewrite the fundamental building blocks of life.
Over a decade ago, O'Deorain made waves when she published a controversial paper detailing a methodology for creating custom genetic programs that could alter DNA at a cellular level. It seemed like a promising step toward overcoming diseases and disorders and maximizing human potential.
Dissent among her peers soon followed. Many considered her work to be dangerous because of its perceived ethical shortfalls, and O'Deorain was even accused of having the same unchecked desire for scientific advancement that some believed had caused the Omnic Crisis. In addition, other geneticists were unable to reproduce the results of Moira's research, which further called her discoveries into question. Instead of kickstarting her career, her paper seriously damaged her reputation.
She received a lifeline in an offer from an unlikely source: Overwatch's covert ops division, Blackwatch. She continued her work in the shadows while developing new weapons and technologies for the organization. Her employment was a closely kept secret, until it was uncovered during inquiries following the Venice incident. Many high-ranking Overwatch officials disavowed all knowledge of her affiliation with them.
After Overwatch was disbanded, O'Deorain was forced to turn to unconventional sources of funding. This time, she was invited to join the scientific collective that had founded the city of Oasis. Yet some have whispered that the shadowy Talon organization had already been supporting her for years, aiding her experiments in exchange for utilizing the results for their own purposes.
Though O'Deorain will go to any lengths to make scientific breakthroughs, her work is still unknown to most of the world. But now that she has been freed from all constraints, it is only a matter of time before everything changes.
dire timber
wow what
cunning ledge
Oh Jesus
valid shell
Yes that is her bio.
cunning ledge
How the hell did that not trigger the bot
valid shell
Thank you.
cunning ledge
Excuse me
I post a 15 line skins list and I get muted but you post that and it's fine
What a heck
@cobalt bobcat if you would like to participate in the discussion here feel free but please don't randomly fill the chat with text like that
Anyway
Retribution cyborg lady reminds me of that boss whose arm unfolds to reveal an entire minigun or something
Hmm
valid shell
Despite being a boring-ass white bread Becky with a ponytail, a hero who's a normal looking chick with an arsenal inside her limbs would be dope.
dire timber
I would love her as a hero
cunning ledge
I said something like that a while ago about Antonio
How it would be kinda funny if he was an arms dealer who literally has guns in his arms
cunning ledge
Bazinga
It would make for some real neat ability animations at least
Bastion's flawless shift animation always impressed me
I wonder what they could do with something more complicated like weaponised internal deployable prosthetics
karmic crest
ROle play?
limpid agate
Role play is not lore.
low axle
Hmm I always wondered are all Omnics Sentient or are some likt he Bastions and ORE's just Drones?
valid shell
@low axle There's no standard for Omnic sapience.
'Omnic' just applies to robots built in an Omnium.
There's fully sapient Omnics like Zenyatta/Mondatta/Maximilien. Then there's sentient Omnics like Bastion and the OR-14's from the Omnic Crisis. Then there's Omnics like the Titan in Destroyer who need to be piloted.
Then there's Orisa, who's technically not an Omnic, but is considered one anyways.
wet spruce
Well she’s a fixed up and reprogrammed omnic
Genji got busted up and then fixed up but he’s still human and using the same logic I’d say that makes Orisa still an omnic
valid shell
We don't know if the OR-15's were built in an Omnium.
So Orisa might just be built from spare parts of robots that were based on Omnic blueprints.
dense estuary
its possible they made some dumb bots but used omnic physical formats that proved successful
well maybe not dumb just not self aware sentient AI
low axle
Leads me to believe even more that Bastions and OR-15's are just Drones then. With Bastion being an abnormality, by gaining self-awareness, ditto with Orisa.
limpid agate
The thing about that is
Detonator's are omnics
Now I don't wanna start bringing parellels to actual suicide bombers, so lets put that aside
And just look at the fact that there is an omnic that was built for the sole purpose of blowing itself up
How much self-awareness could it possibly have
iron plume
Could it be that NS does have “regeneration” because they’re not bound by the same morals other omnics are?
iron plume
Like we know Mondatta doesn’t just plug himself into a new body because it goes against his religion
NS may not be bound by that
iron plume
Software backups exist
valid shell
I seriously doubt Null Sector and whoever puppeteered the Omnic Crisis care enough about Omnics with Bastion's level of sapience to back them up.
There's a big difference between them and the Shambali.
Why keep restoring and rebuilding one Bastion when you can just pump out a thousand identical ones.
Until we see a Null Sector Omnic who seems to have some degree of personality, I'm pretty sure they're all one-and-done.
low axle
In theory you could probably rebuild destroyed omnics. I would however assume there Memory/Personality and what have is probably in a single location in there body. If that goes that omnic is gone. Assuming Mondattyas was in his head. He gone.
hidden grove
True, if they could get backed up, mondatta shouldn't of died
low axle
Its just most Omnics to me seem like Mindless Drones, while a relative handful are sentient. Mainly the humanoid shaped ones.
And by relative I mean in terms of all the Omnics buildt in the crisis is what not.
Soilders don't need to have feelings or personality, style.
valid shell
He's not your conventional Bastion Unit, though.
Torbjorn makes note of his oddities.
valid shell
We're not talking mechanically, though. You said personality.
Which is where Bastion differs.
hidden grove
Yeah thats just the thing though
We havent seen other bastions
And if mechanically they are the same
THen all the bastions are the same and have a personality
valid shell
We've seen thousands of other Bastions, and they march to slaughter without question.
hidden grove
Yeah and in that one short we saw thousands of other human soldiers
Does that make you think humans are mindless drones?
limpid agate
Except Bastion is explicitly different than other Bastions
valid shell
^ This is the guy who helped design the Bastion Units.
And he's taken aback by how unique our Bastion is.
valid shell
Because storytelling.
hidden grove
since for all we know they are all the same and have personality
but they were taken over by the god AI
valid shell
N o o
limpid agate
Noo
hidden grove
like Anubis in pharah short
limpid agate
Go back
valid shell
Noooo
hidden grove
WHy do you think bastion is different
He is just randomly different iron giant style?
iron plume
He broke through his programming after waking up
hidden grove
Even though we know factually that omnics do have personalities
limpid agate
With its combat programming all but lost, it instead displayed an intense curiosity about the natural world and its inhabitants.
valid shell
Oh my God.
iron plume
yes, "broke through his programming" isn't a thing that actually happens, but storytelling
valid shell
There's zero consistency between Omnics. Do you think Slicers and Detonators have personality?
limpid agate
There is exactly 1 thing called a "God Program" and it is Anubis
hidden grove
What was that anubis thing in the pharah comic?
valid shell
You're thinking Zenyatta, Mondatta, Lynx, Shambali, etc.
hidden grove
Oh ok god program
hidden grove
Im talking ORISA
limpid agate
It is literally
valid shell
What.
limpid agate
Just a colloquial name for Anubis
valid shell
When did the subject change to Orisa.
hidden grove
Well thats weird but ok
valid shell
What is this timeline.
hidden grove
Do you not know that orisa is a omnic?
valid shell
She's not.
limpid agate
Okay, you want to talk about Orisa vs OR15
valid shell
She wasn't built in an Omnium.
limpid agate
Efi made Orisa's personality
valid shell
She's not an Omnic.
iron plume
oh you're going that route
hidden grove
What are you defininy as an Omnic at this point
hidden grove
wtf
iron plume
it basically does in-universe
hidden grove
seriously?
hidden grove
Zenyatta is branded?
limpid agate
Seriously
valid shell
Please get acquainted with lore before telling people they're wrong.
valid shell
W h a t
limpid agate
Yes.
hidden grove
dang thats crazy
limpid agate
Omnic is used as often as Kleenex or Advil.
valid shell
Or band-aid.
valid shell
So Orisa technically isn't an Omnic, but everyone would call her an Omnic anyways.
limpid agate
No one says "Can you get me an ibuprofen", they say "Get me an advil"
hidden grove
Thats fair
limpid agate
Technically not, but yes
valid shell
Not really. If you had a no-name soda pop, you would be wrong in calling it a coke.
limpid agate
You would be wrong, but also correct.
valid shell
Everyone would know what you meant, but you're still incorrect.
valid shell
Except in the case of branding, people do care.
iron plume
which, I get it now lmao
Except in the case of omnics, the corporation isn't actually real
valid shell
You can be taken to court if you slap 'kleenix' on your tissue box.
iron plume
You're not gonna be taken to court for calling a generic brand tisuse a kleenex
we're talking about use in language, not in branding
valid shell
For calling it? No.
valid shell
I'm saying that it doesn't matter if the language is accepted, it's still incorrect.
People say irregardless. And 'I could care less'.
iron plume
Efi doesn't ship orisa in boxes with "Brand new omnic from Numbani, now with 100% more tobelstein core"
valid shell
Ecks dee.
hidden grove
Seems like calling Orisa a robot is the term thats techinically correct
iron plume
she's called an omnic because that's what omnic means in universe
valid shell
That's what we've been saying.
hidden grove
No
You've been saying robot is right
And Omnic isn't completely right since she isnt an omnic
valid shell
Orisa technically isn't an Omnic, she's a robot. But everyone calls her an Omnic anyways.
iron plume
Omnic does mean sentient robot in-universe
hidden grove
You're the one that brought it up since you got confused I said Orisa is another Omnic with a personality
iron plume
"Everyone calls it that, but it's wrong!" doesn't work because everyone calling it that by definition means that it's the meaning
If it wasn't true in-universe
valid shell
Just because it's the groupthink doesn't make it correct. :v
iron plume
you'd have a point, because fiction has a Word of God that overrules majority rule
hidden grove
But it is correct if Michael Chu says it is since he is the lead writer innit
iron plume
but it is true in universe
That's how language works
that's literally what language is created for
communication
last inlet
I'm guessing if they're calling her an omnic ingame, they probably mean for her to be an omnic
iron plume
you're deliberately misinterpreting a statement and then berating people for it
valid shell
Anyways. Bottom line is, there's massive gaps in the levels of sapience between different 'Omnics', like Bastion Units, our Bastion, OR-14's, OR-15's, Orisa, the Shambali, Maximilien, Slicers, Detonators, etc.
They're all considered Omnics, and all very different.
hidden grove
Why is that
THey're all just machines with AI
Like they got an upgraded AI?
what is that even
valid shell
What.
iron plume
The humanoid omnics were made later
and for a different purpose
why wouldn't they have an upgraded AI
valid shell
Both your microwave and your laptop have programming in them.
valid shell
You only put as much programming as necessary into your microwave.
hidden grove
Snowball mei's drone isn't an AI
iron plume
Programming is how you make an AI
hidden grove
Bastion is an omnic therefore he has AI
valid shell
Why would Bastion Units need to have speech and higher thinking programmed into them?
hidden grove
But it is programmed in
iron plume
the self learning itself has to be programmed too
hidden grove
Thats why our bastion can talk and have higher thinking
It's factually implemented inside bastion already
hidden grove
I already said why before?
hidden grove
God Program highjack mehby?
valid shell
N o
low axle
The Vibe I am getting is all I am saying is that most of the FIGHTER type Omnics Bastion Units, OR-15's Slicers and the like are more than likely Drones without sentient personalities. Does that mean they can't develope one. No because our Bastion proves they can. But the odds of something becoming self aware. Aren't good.
valid shell
Nononono.
valid shell
Bastion has never been in Egypt.
He hasn't been near Anubis.
What are you on about.
last inlet
because God Programs are no longer relevant
hidden grove
During the omnic crisis there were several god programs
last inlet
it was only one
iron plume
no
last inlet
nope
valid shell
Noooo
last inlet
not anymore, anyway
iron plume
the OC wasn't a takeover
hidden grove
The wiki out of date or what
last inlet
if it ever weas that way
iron plume
of existing omnics
last inlet
then it's been changed.
iron plume
the OC was Omnium factories starting up
and pumping out fighter units
programmed to fight
last inlet
do we know that?
iron plume
can you not
valid shell
Why do you say things as fact when they're incorrect.
low axle
Spamming doesn't make your point more valid
valid shell
Why do you do this thing.
low axle
makes you look like a dick
hidden grove
What do you mean
The only thing I said was a fact was that bastion already had a personality installed
Its not like someone walked up to his shut down self, installed a personality, then left
valid shell
"During the omnic crisis there were several god programs"
That's wrong.
That's not the truth.
That's the opposite of what is correct.
hidden grove
Did I say it was a fact?
low axle
No I would guess that most Omnics even Combat ones do have a type of learning AI, however being combat types they never develope personality or sentience because that learning AI is kept busy with tactics and such.
low axle
Bastion lost his programming so the learning AI took over.
hidden grove
I accepted it in like, a second
low axle
Thats my theory
iron plume
that's pretty spammy
hidden grove
Yeah dont be toxic
iron plume
really now, we're going that route?
low axle
Or more likely. Combat Based Omnics may infact have personalities and free will but have a machine or blocker put inside of them to keep it from developing. Think like the Cylons did to the Centurians in the new BSG
last inlet
is it really this big a deal?
iron plume
why would you put in personalities and free will into a machine built to serve and die
just to restrict it with a blocker
hidden grove
Thats a good question
low axle
thats why I figure most of them are drones
hidden grove
But thats what must have happened
last inlet
I'd accept that if it was like a default setting
low axle
Bastions Blocker either broke allow him to gain sentience..or his programming got corrupted during his shut down and his learning AI took over.
last inlet
like, it's just part of the engine
low axle
making him more childlike
valid shell
We don't know what made our Bastion what he is.
Only that it's completely unique.
And one of the CREATORS of the Bastion Units doesn't know what it is.
last inlet
and the omniums decided to block that. IF that was the case.
But there's nothing to suggets it
iron plume
Torb's not a software guy is he
valid shell
If there was some other programming behind a block, Torbjorn would know immediately what's up.
Torb's an everything guy.
low axle
Well You wouldn't want your soilders questioning WHY they are fighting would you?
It makes sense.
last inlet
it also makes sense that they have no critical thinking at all
have we ever had anyone come and say "These robots are sapient, these ones are just tools"
?
iron plume
Ideally you'd want your soldiers having some tactical decision making capacity though
low axle
Now the Humanoid Omnics they seem to have been made to become self aware.
last inlet
I mean an official "anyone"
iron plume
which is why it makes sense there's some learning involved
low axle
Hence my Theory on the Learning AI Healer.
Bastions Combat Programming gets damaged or corrupted. Learning AI adapts.
hidden grove
Yeah that might make sense
I was thinking that the combat programming is just the aggression part
Fighting till they completely break down etc
Especially since we see him go "rogue" again in his short
for a few seconds anyway
low axle
I would assume if a learning AI is present that in a normal Bastion it is occupied running battle scenarios and formulating tactics
Where our Bastions AI clearly isn't doing that.
hidden grove
It could just be ignored though
hidden grove
I feel like it has to be self aware since it's one of the definitional requirements for an omnic?
iron plume
self awareness isn't a definitional requirement
the original definition was "robot built in an omnium"
which bastion decidedly was
hidden grove
Yeah its a pretty great skin, I used it forever
iron plume
since then it's expanded to some bigger circle of robots
hidden grove
Well yeah thats another definitional atrtibute
iron plume
but it still doesn't have to be self aware
last inlet
we know they made robots
iron plume
AI ≠ self-aware
last inlet
not what is so special about them
low axle
I would say the AI is advanced, but not self aware right at the start.
It has the ability to become so
last inlet
they could just be the Coca Cola of making robots
low axle
but most dont
hidden grove
hmm
iron plume
the specified part is unconfirmed
low axle
Thats why it's all just a theory
iron plume
more of a hypothesis
low axle
I'd like to see some story around the Russian Omnium the one still operating in Siberia
could answer alot of questions
hidden grove
that's fair
Yeah finding more about the newly active and aggressive one would help a lot
low axle
Also an AI becomming Self aware could explain why they can't just plug a dead omnic into a new body
especially if whatever part contains that AI
is damaged
Or could be a host of other variables in each individual omnic that leads to sentience
that might not be in most omnics
hidden grove
Hmm it seems common enough with the civvie class omnics
low axle
But those were buildt to interact with us. And I'll agree most of them seem self aware. Meaning they were probably made to become that
Where as most Bastions..probably weren't
hidden grove
true, which makes it all the more mysterious why he has that personality
Like, can a learning AI learn self awareness?
low axle
It's gotta be a learning AI that's input that becomes aware of itself
hidden grove
Yeah thats interesting
low axle
inbuildt*
hidden grove
And a fair theory
It just feels like to me though that bastion seems to have had a personality as soon as he turned on again
low axle
And besides. Why wouldn't you just use the same AI package on all of them anyway. Sure any omnic could become self aware. But what triggers that?
For bastion I honestly think it's his bird
Or Maybe Bastion is Insane. o.O
hidden grove
lmao
hidden grove
ironic he's the most peaceful insane guy haha
Oh you meant dual personality
I thought you meant psychopathy in bastion units materialized as a peaceful personality haha
low axle
lol
Man its so much easier to figure this out with transformers
Spark Sentient
No spark not
😛
hidden grove
low axle
So. Maybe all Omnics share the same basic AI package. Which means they have the potentional to become self-aware. I mean it seems like alot of work to make different AI's for different units.
hidden grove
Yeah thats true
low axle
But for ones that are meant for millitary use they simply have blockers or limits to keep that from happening.
hidden grove
But I think the issue is that since every omnic "class" has different body parts, that basic AI would have to be quite.. basic lol
It has to have a really good learning portion
To learn its own body and functions and capabilities
Especially the military classes since apparently in the reinhardt short, they can freaking climb quite well?
The one that dived the female crusader anyway
low axle
I just think that like 99% of the Omnics that were made for the war probably weren't sentient, because you really don't want your soilders asking..Why?
low axle
Or they were direct connected to a powerful AI that was puppeting them
not a god program persay but a hive mind
hidden grove
Humans want to shut us down, we deserve to live, yadda yadda
I feel like the god program thing was a retcon
low axle
True, but what if your Soilders suddenly decide they don't want to kill anymore.
And that spreads
hidden grove
As we go deeper and more lore comes out, I feel like it might be made canon again
Let that soldier work in other aspects
Like material acquisitions
hidden grove
Thats fine, robots can change parts easy
Kinda like how they repurposed that giant one that torbjorn made for construction
Into the giant war machine pacific rim boi
low axle
I wanna know if the Omnic Attacking Korea is sentient
hidden grove
ooh yeah
low axle
or just a drone preprogrammed
hidden grove
I feel like it would be
low axle
to attack until damaged then retreat and self repair
hidden grove
And people would still call it an omnic since it came from an omnium factory
Next archive event plz
Let us fight kaiju omnics
low axle
That'd be cool. Would be neat actually make take place in current times
D.Va can't handle it's new upgrades alone..so recalled overwatch steps in
hidden grove
That would be pretty sweet
The name "archives" might make a modern event unlikely though :C
low axle
True but otherwise that sort of event might be limited to a solo mission as D.Va
if its in korea anyway
What if the Kaiju Omnic...is actually hundreds of them in a combined form..now I am just spitballing..
Kinda like the Geth from ME. Hundreds of AI working in unison in one unit.
cunning ledge
I'm a fan of the theory that the kaiju Omnic is a mobile omnium itself
It repairs and upgrades via drones it produces
low axle
That would be cool.
If God AI's weren't a red herring, it could even be one that made itself a body
short scaffold
how do you even introduce something literally called a "God AI" and have it mean nothing
low axle
It would explain the Omnic Crisis in one broad stroke.
But then again..Blizzard also said D.VA was an SC 2 pro..then called fans confused for thinking that.
hidden grove
I still think its just a mistaken retcon
hidden grove
That was a stupid thing to retcon anyway
iron plume
it's not what got her into meka
cunning ledge
The retcon leaves room for her to also play a game that actually uses joysticks to control it
Like the actual mech
iron plume
or at least has to do with directly controlling something
cunning ledge
- the apm stuff
cunning ledge
I've only ever heard it about Starcraft
low axle
Well I guess if you have a good APM it could translate to other games well. It just means you can use the controls very fast.
cunning ledge
Presumably other RTS games use it
iron plume
it's an rts thing
hidden grove
Well not even that right
iron plume
?
hidden grove
Since its specifically about key presses and mouse presses
cunning ledge
The whole point of the apm thing is so she can use defence matrix anyway
hidden grove
oh no soz I was referring to what spaceduck said
cunning ledge
Not controlling the mech
cunning ledge
The reason they needed a Starcraft pro is that no other type of person could manually control defence matrix
iron plume
he said it in a very awkward way
low axle
Hmm. Do you think other Mekka pilots are salty with her? Like they spent years learning to master these mobile war machines, and even more years in millitary training..only to have the best go to a streamer:P
last inlet
I was under the impression it was Starcraft that got her into the program. But oh well
hidden grove
I thought every meka pilot was a gamer lol
iron plume
but the point is it wasn't what got her in
low axle
Jesus
hidden grove
lmao
low axle
I guess Korea got hit really hard by the crisis
cunning ledge
It says they recruited multiple
low axle
Lol
last inlet
it's honestly an anime plot
last inlet
we know the OW team loves them some anime
low axle
Yanno Defense matrix does look like an AT field.
last inlet
"time to raise my ATF"
cunning ledge
And then there's the fact that the suits have buttons on the wrists, the hairband headsets, etc
Lots of similarities
cunning ledge
also when she waves the mech moves without her controlling it
low axle
I wonder how a sleep dart puts her Mech to sleep..I know Game mechic is why...but lore wise..
Since she's sitll fiddling with the controls during that
hidden grove
It uses nano machines and causes massive lag
last inlet
if it were in like a comic
cunning ledge
If you read old soldiers you'll see the sleep dart doesn't even work on reaper
last inlet
it'd probably be that Ana hits Hana herself somehow
hidden grove
yeah a lot of gameplay stuff isnt lore
Like zenyatta transcendence doesn't exist in the lore
cunning ledge
Why even say "It uses nano machines and causes massive lag" then
hidden grove
because its a joke
cunning ledge
Nanomachines aren't even a thing
hidden grove
settle down mate
low axle
I wonder..do Omnics feel pain? Or just simulate it?
clearly can experience emotional pain
but physically?
cunning ledge
According to the sounds they make in game they can
There's a chance that's just gameplay though
I'd imagine they do
dire timber
aw, I missed an omnic convo
and god AI talk
darn, I have so much to say on both
😔
hidden grove
Just start it back up again
iron plume
please no
hidden grove
If the overwatch and competitive discussion can talk about brigitte for months than we can talk about God Programs for years!
iron plume
well if you want this channel to be on the same level as ow and comp-d
hidden grove
Considering that other guys response during that discussion
And just spamming links to prove a point
I think we're already there
iron plume
how about we don't anyway
And his point was actually proven before then
iron plume
because you kept disagreeing with it despite the evidence
now how about you don't go into meta-shitposting as well
hidden grove
Excuse you I agreed
low axle
Meta-Shitposting o.O?
cunning ledge
@dire timber what did you want to say about omnics and/or god ai?
low axle
I am always down to hear other ideas on it o.o
Especially why The other Bastions seem to be mindless drones.
dire timber
mostly about "god programs" being just a colloquialism for powerful AIs
but then people reading too much into it, and thinking they're suddenly involved in everything
low axle
Hmm
Yanno..Anubis could be the AI that was used in the Omnic Crisis to control the armies directly..hence it being locked down now >.>
and why Bastion had no personality until it woke up
still doesn't think the omnic crisis was caused by God Programs though :P
dire timber
someone posed a theory that Anubis might've been used against omnics
in order to disable them
and that this is why it was quarantined after the Crisis
cunning ledge
there's a line about the strike team "targeting command protocols"
i always assumed that was just running into a base and blowing up some central control place
but it was countering it with another ai that could be cool
dire timber
also, on omnics and their intelligence level, I also wrote this down a while back:
- drone - somewhat smarter than a dog, but not as smart as a human (Snowball, Slicers)
- war machine - smarter than drones, but generally not to supposed to pay attention to anything but eliminating designated targets (Bastions, Omnic Crisis OR14)
- advanced droid - about as sapient as a human, but still similar to war machines due to their directive-driven nature (Null Sector OR14, OR15)
- sapient - an individual as sapient as a human (humanoid omnics, Nulltroopers)
@cunning ledge I think you had a write-up on it too?
cunning ledge
ye
personally I think Omnic/machine intelligence goes like this:
Drone - Simple machine that can be given a task (Cleaning bots on Rialto, Slicers)
Full intelligence but suppressed to basic functions (Bastions)
Full intelligence (Civilian Omnics, Athena)
I'm assuming that all the other war omnic variations like tanks, metal gears, etc are like bastions in this regard
quasi schooner
I think it’s a mix, but more like slingnerd. There is also two levels in each level, high capacity and low capacity. Eg drones/window and drones/snowball
cunning ledge
snowball clearly has a personality of some sort
so i wouldn't class snowball as a drone
quasi schooner
High level drone, but can’t count as war machine.
low axle
I had a simular idea about Bastions possibly having supressed INT or some sort of hardware installed that limited there reasoning.
cunning ledge
in The Last Bastion it's clear that there is a hud for the unit to see
that gives them a path to follow
so there's got to be something like that
dire timber
@cunning ledge I classify drone as "smarter than a dog, but can't be considered a person"
cunning ledge
what makes you think a slicer is that intelligent?
hidden grove
Definitions are real tricky in the OW world
Especially since they called Dva's mech a drone
cunning ledge
they were, originally
cunning ledge
"As the omnic continued to adapt, it eventually disrupted MEKA's drone-control networks, forcing the military to place pilots in the mechs."
hidden grove
Dogai 😄
low axle
In my minds eye Drones are largely just automations devoid of any sort of idea of self.
Just Machines with directives
hidden grove
What would snowball be?
iron plume
dva's mech isn't a drone
drones were controlled remotely
cunning ledge
tbh i'm not convinced that anything has dog level ai
hidden grove
You're right, which makes spaceducks definition a bit hard to use
dire timber
MEKA units were original drones
iron plume
yeah meka had drones
but then they swapped to piloted mechs
low axle
Snowballs Prime Directive is probably to help Mei.
dire timber
@cunning ledge I wouldn't consider Snowball a fully sapient person though
capable of thought and emotion, yes
low axle
Neither would I slig
cunning ledge
bruh
dire timber
Zenyatta is a person, capable of understanding complex, abstract concepts and articulating them
low axle
It wasn't because snowball is still around
it just needed a new battery
thats like me going to sleep so someone can do something
its not a big deal
hidden grove
True dat but it didnt know at the time
dire timber
Snowball didn't know whether it would ever be reactivated
hidden grove
Its like you killing yourself without knowing your buddy could bring you back to life or not
But luckily they could
hidden grove
true that
cunning ledge
zenyatta is also an omnic that was manufactured with its own personal identity
snowball is just a weather drone with some low level ai
hidden grove
yeah but if we simplify what you said without the fluff you're just saying one has a personal identity and the other doesnt right?
cunning ledge
I feel like omnic identity is conceptually different to ai identity
low axle
Essentially. But I was talking more along the lines of like the Millitary Omnics earlier myself:p
hidden grove
Hmm how so?
cunning ledge
athena knows that they exist to help overwatch, control the base, etc
low axle
Scroll up about 3 hours ago
cunning ledge
omnics exist to be seperate entities
low axle
lol
hidden grove
Lmao
hidden grove
Yeah probably
cunning ledge
just run up to payload and shoot pew pew laser
snowball makes decisions and apparently has emotions
low axle
What if the Millitary Grade Omnics, the Slicers, The Bastions, OR-14s and what have you..where controlled by a hive mind intelligence that supresssed any sort of real personality until the end of the crisis
Not a god AI persay
but a collective of Omnic AI
hidden grove
Thats what I said before but with god program
Hive mind seems kinda doubtful though?
cunning ledge
null sector can't be connected to that hive mind
they are a seperate group with their own goals
low axle
Are we sure about that though?
dire timber
yeah, the thing is, Null Sector utilize Slicers and Bastions
which appear to be as dumb as ever
dire timber
debatable on Nulltroopers and OR14s
but I think OR14s are still directive-driven droids, even if they do possess some advanced intelligence
low axle
Still Could be like what they do to the Cylon Centurians in the new BSG. They are fully capable of developing into unique persons..but hardware blocks that.
a block that needs to be damaged or removed
for the personality to come out
Bastion and Rein should team up and call themselves the Last Sons 😛
quasi schooner
I believe a drone is a human term for a unmanned vehicle. A Drone is a small quadcopter
The rest are subcategories of alien drones
low axle
Getting too technical. I was/am using Drone as a catch all term for the bots that don't seem to be self aware.
quasi schooner
Any moving object that isn’t with a human inside
iron plume
uh
a flying rock i throw is a moving object with a human inside
I assume you mean self propelled
but even that is iffy
quasi schooner
Self moving, no human inside, but human made
sturdy fable
Machinery that can move on its own without a human inside it
quasi schooner
👍
low axle
Difference between a machine anda self aware being.
peak escarp
I miss all the good conversations 😦
worthy rose
Who’s Athena and is she in the lore?
peak escarp
Athena is the AI at Watchpoint Gibraltar
limpid agate
She is Winstons disembodied AI
You can hear her in Recall, the dropships in koth maps, and the announcer
cunning ledge
Important to note that she's not a god ai, despite what some people think
It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that I suppose, given Anubis
but still
dire timber
there's no such thing as a "god AI" tbh
Pharah mentions "god programs"
which could just be a colloquialism to describe a highly advanced AI
and both Anubis and Athena can tick that box
peak escarp
I just assumed "god programs" were called that because of their name, not because of what they an do
In which case Athena fits that description
dire timber
reminder that we wouldn't have such issues if we had some sort of follow-up
gaunt spear
Anyone gave me any Pokemon?
peak escarp
We don't actually know where the term "god program" comes from or why Pharah uses it
dire timber
uh, no, no pokemon here
peak escarp
Do you think the term could have come from Ana trying to explain it to Fareeha when she was younger, using words she would comprehend instead of more accurate terminology?
cunning ledge
interesting theory
iron plume
ooh
deep dive
cunning ledge
but it sounds like she's using the info the team was briefed on
at least to me
that does sound hilarious though
peak escarp
She uses the term in her inner monologue, and says "the so-called god programs"
cunning ledge
"don't join overwatch you'll be killed by the scary god programs"
peak escarp
So she must have heard it from someone else
idk, it's another one of those things we'll probably never get clarification on
cunning ledge
sad but true
peak escarp
Unless it plays into the plot later on, but then why dismiss it as a colloquialism?
So it probably won't be important
jolly canyon
we need more jetpack cat lore
peak escarp
Jetpack cat was Brigitte's cat Mitzi
peak escarp
She's probably dead by now, if it's the same cat shown in Brigitte's origin trailer
cunning ledge
@limpid agate is pretty sure that jetpack hammond is going to be a hero
peak escarp
Cats don't live more than 15 or so years
limpid agate
Yup
peak escarp
My dad had a cat named Mitzi when he was a kid
valid shell
Retches.
cunning ledge
meanwhile I still just want my junkerqueen waifu
or suave evil omnic husbando
queen I think is likely to be the hero after the next one
peak escarp
I can't think of any characters from the lore that I'd want to see as a playable hero
cunning ledge
really? none?
peak escarp
I'd rather get someone new
cunning ledge
i mean
having a hero based off a single thing like a name would basically be a new person
like soundquake/liao/etc
peak escarp
I mean someone unknown
cunning ledge
just that they can be like "hoho we've actually been teasing this all along"
peak escarp
Like how Moira was unknown - she was just a face in the background
cunning ledge
that's kinda what i'm saying
you could pick a face from recall and say hey i want this guy
chances are that guy would have to be a new character
agree about moira too
that was a neat thing from her being in the comic and then being a hero
peak escarp
I liked going back and seeing all the subtle clues
Hammond and Liao and Max and the Queen are all too obvious for me
cunning ledge
what about sanjay? or mirembe?
peak escarp
Eh, it's just personal preference
cunning ledge
also what binge said
peak escarp
I'll be fine with whatever they go with
cunning ledge
personally I want Sanjay but only if he's a tank because of this goddamn idea I have of him having hard light armour
peak escarp
I'd just rather not get hyped up about a character only for them to be completely different in the game
cunning ledge
I mean yeah that's kinda the thing
won't stop me from coming up with concepts anyway
I also think it would be neat because it would also cement his position in talon as being a specialist field agent as well as a tech guy
valid shell
Funny because Brigitte was super similar to what I expected.
peak escarp
Can't be disappointed if you have no expectations
valid shell
Crusader Lite with armor healing.
cunning ledge
reinhardt torbjorn hybrid
wasn't exactly the most outlandish thing if you know her backstory and character connections
limpid agate
I would not be surprised if they dedicate the March hero to always be an amalgamation of existing heroes
Orisa, inspired by the heroes of Overwatch, built with familiar tools
Brigitte, Torbs kid, Reins squire, plays with parts of both
cunning ledge
I wonder if they'd consider having a slot dedicated to community request heroes
as in moira
iirc sombra is the other november hero so that doesn't quite match up currently
valid shell
Remember, Orisa was also partly a "community request", being a female Omnic.
cunning ledge
I guess yeah
limpid agate
Technically, everyone except maybe Brig
Was a community request
Support Sniper
Sombra
Female Omnic
Doomfist
Evil Healer
Brig was popular for art with Honour and Glory, but I didn't hear much past that
valid shell
I'm confident the next hero will be a male tank.
limpid agate
Why
valid shell
Because now that Blizzard's evened out the ratio they'll heave a sigh of relief and say, "Okay, back to making one-dimensional beefcake punchboys."
And also we could use a new tank.
limpid agate
But they just made Brig
...
Hmm
There were some weird
Links
Of two in a row
Orisa and Doomfist - Numbani tied heroes
Doomfist and Moira - Talon
Moira and Brig - Supports
valid shell
Brig evens the ratio.
limpid agate
Wonder if they will keep that up
valid shell
Brig and ____ - Next generation of Overwatch.
peak escarp
That would be cool
limpid agate
Jetpack Hammond fits
Or could
Depending on how much Winston likes the guy
I dunno, I just really think
It has to be something we've seen or heard of
Even as a background detail
peak escarp
A test subject from the moon that led a rebellion and killed scientists is the next generation of Overwatch?
I don't think Winston would like him much
peak escarp
Oh right
I forget Hammond wasn't one of the gorillas
My bad
That's one issue I have with Hammond as a hero
He's described as a "smaller specimen"
He's have to wear some kind of apparatus to make him vaguely humanoid (or at least human sized)
peak escarp
They're still humansized
limpid agate
peak escarp
Anything smaller than Tracer would be too hard to hit
That's a bad example - they said they turned down Jetpack Cat because it was to ridiculous
severe oxide
Anything smaller than Tracer would be too hard to hit
RIPTIRE
limpid agate
Yeah, it was too ridiculous. They couldn't find a way to make a talking cat fit into Overwatch
Make that talking cat Hammond
Now it fits into Overwatch
peak escarp
That's an ultimate @severe oxide
golden nimbus
Gorilla is broken! is too small
severe oxide
yes and it's hard to hit
golden nimbus
I wiil take the hammer and fix the gorilla
severe oxide
and the fact that it's hard to hit makes it really powerful within the gameplay
so, it both proves and disproves your point
it proves that if they make things too hard to hit, they're unbalanced
but it also proves that those dumb fucks will put unbalanced things in the game
severe oxide
yeah you said that already
it's functionally similar to a hero though
since you directly control it, and the enemies try to shoot at it (you) in order to kill it
so gameplay wise it works like a hero
dire timber
jetpack cat is a dumb concept imho
let's keep it as just an easter egg in Brigitte Origins
peak escarp
it's not always around, and it's not shooting at you
valid shell
murdering housepets
limpid agate
I agree its a dumb concept
But I think it has a good chance for exactly hero 28
And after that
Back into the void
low axle
sO reading up some. Hammond being a Male Chimpanzee..if fitted with armor and such like Winston...seeing how Male Chimpanzee's can grow to be quite large..I don't see how he would be too small to hit.
low axle
I believe Chimpanzee and Gorillas were the test subject
limpid agate
We know there were Gorillas
And a smaller specimen in Hammond
That's all we know
This is everything we know about Hammond
Most noteably, he is a small specimen that lives in a cage that no one cares went missing for a week
low axle
I am still going with Chimpanzee. Thats operating under that they would continue to use Great Apes instead of Monkies
limpid agate
I 100% believe he cannot be a Chimp
Because a chimp missing for a week
Would raise alarms
He's more likely to be a rabbit, a rat, or a cat imo
limpid agate
I guarantee people would care if they lost a baby monkey
peak escarp
How about a lemur?
low axle
Welll lets see..Operating under the assumption of Great Apes..if you wanna nitpick size..Perhaps a Gibbon
peak escarp
Lemurs are primates
limpid agate
My whole point is I don't think Hammond is a primeate
I'm not saying he has to be a hero or a cat
Just that I strongly believe there is no we he can be any kind of ape or monkey
low axle
And that's assuming the scientists would actually care. As much info as we have..only Winstons care taker seemed to give a crap. Albeit because he's the only one we've seen
Looks like a chimp to me in the corner
limpid agate
And what's the number on its shoulder
low axle
Why does it -not- have to be hammond?
limpid agate
That's not an argument
limpid agate
Absense of disproof is not proof.
But the absence of proof can be used for disproof
low axle
Well then I guess we are both wrong and right until blizzard gets around to showing it.
if ever
sturdy fable
Hammond could be a reptile for all we know xP
limpid agate
COuld be
Some kind of lizard.
Don't know why he would be a lizard
But we don't know what he is
valid shell
You'd think genetic experiments for the benefit of humans would be mammals only.
limpid agate
🚀 🐱
dire timber
why are you sending a cat to space
cunning ledge
🚀 🦍
dire timber
🚀 🙎🏾
low axle
Still going with Chimp myself:P
cunning ledge
I agree with jewvia, it's unlikely to be a chimp because losing an animal like that would probably raise concern
soft carbon
besides, chimpanzees are evil incarnate
I mean, maybe quite as evil as dolphins, but they are still pretty damn diabolical
worthy rose
how is torb 2 foot nothing but brigitte is normal 🤔
limpid agate
Same way dwarves in our world have normal sized kids
meager wharf
He is a man with dwarfism
I'm not sure how acceptable it is to call little people dwarves.
meager wharf
It's not impossible
pliant cypress
also i believe the term is "little people" now
waxen glen
Dwarves
worthy rose
cosplayers
waxen glen
How is a dwarf a cosplayer?
waxen glen
Brah...
worthy rose
dwarf is offensive
pliant cypress
I have a friend who cosplays torb lol
waxen glen
How is it offensive
pliant cypress
according to the internet, little people, dwarf and person of short stature are acceptable terms universally (ofc its down to personal preference for the actual person)
just don't say midget
waxen glen
Gnomes
pliant cypress
or gnomes haha
waxen glen
Halflings aswel
pliant cypress
jfc
valid shell
Danny Devito.
valid shell
He's about Torb's height.
pliant cypress
how short is torb canonically anyway
pliant cypress
I was being serious
pliant cypress
hes 4'7
pliant cypress
hes 7'3 so probs not lol
pliant cypress
pharah's taller than me 
worthy rose
how tall is she
valid shell
@pliant cypress Where are you getting these heights?
valid shell
It's probably not canon.
pliant cypress
considering someone took the time to literally find out
it's the closest we're gonna get
valid shell
Still.
pliant cypress
reference kits also give heights
6'1 for mccree
5'11 for pharah
5'8 for hanzo
limpid agate
Reference kits contain heights for everyone released before Genji/Mei/DVa
pliant cypress
then people have used the heroes we know for reference for the others
so give or take an inch or two, they're correct
worthy rose
im a little shorter tham mccree
valid shell
Brag about it
worthy rose
i will
pliant cypress
I'm smack bang between widow and mccree
i wish i was the same height as reinhardt tbh
peak escarp
Torbjorn is only 4" shorter than me 😢
dire timber
lore when
limpid agate
July
hasty surge
new comic when?
limpid agate
🤷
Maybe a tie in with something eventually
The earliest real comic I feel is safe to guarantee
Is May 2019
In next year's archives event
dire timber
I can't wait 2 months
late temple
!english
merry ether
we might get some more lore in the anniversary event.
last year we got Necropolis, Castillo and Black Forest - new lore (but admittedly small amounts of lore)
thats if they put more maps in anyways
limpid agate
I meant last year
I expect no more than what we got last year
We could get something
But I dont expect it
white cobalt
Anniversary doesn't bring much lore
Just random stuff from designers
For some reason I'm not expecting maps this time
hasty surge
We seem to be getting much lesser then last year though
no development on horizon lunar colony
hasty surge
It's not the only one I know
low axle
It'd be nice to have an event that's Winston leading a small group back to the colony. Could even lead into introing an evil ape for a hero too.
dire timber
imagine introducing a hero through an event
as in, they debut as an event enemy
and then get added to the playable roster at the end
cunning ledge
I was half expecting that for Antonio in Retribution
like he'd be a final boss so unique it would have to be a teaser for a new hero
probably just because I thought it would be cool
dire timber
that got crushed as soon as the event's intro cinematic, though
particularly, Antonio's fate was sealed as soon as he appeared in the intro cutscene to begin with
low axle
Horizon would be a great way to intro a new character. Especially if it involved trying to resecure the colony.
cunning ledge
If neo Overwatch's first mission is to go back up there and kill some angry gorillas I wouldn't be particularly mad