lore-discussion

[spare fox]

people love giggling when their favs have an interaction or matching skins or something

[brittle sky]

sure, and fun is allowed. Just commenting that none of them have a 'oh, I get what you're going for' angle like reaper76

[shrewd pivot]

I doubt they will be a canon relationship, as I doubt any teen (18-19) heroes will get canon ships in lore tbh

That said, Mizuki being Kappa and Wuyang being black turtle-snake is a funny dynamic for canon friendship. Poor Anran has to deal with these turtles full of anxiety lol

[brittle sky]

so they can have them shoot each other in game.

[remote sluice]

i personally dont enjoy if theres too much random ships as just cuz character isnsimiliar and all but are there any confirmed relationships? like is there any actual love between any of the characfers?

[left dirge]

I yearn for the mines

[crisp canyon]

Yes if league and val can do it so can ow

[spare fox]

you're in the WRONG fandom dude

[brittle sky]

do valorant characters have barks on elimination, much less target-specific ones?

[remote sluice]

its honestky just cuz i keep seeing sm random shi on diff games 😭

[crisp canyon]

There were implications in ow1 which were debated ab genji x mercy but they’ve kinda gone away from that, the closest now is Freja and Emre implications they’re lovers

[remote sluice]

OHH YEAHBI HEARD ABT THAT

[civic lynx]

Even anran’s va ships it and blizzard love money

[remote sluice]

i forgot

[civic lynx]

Matchin skins would sell like hotcakes

[spare fox]

Bap and LW flirt and the one invites the other to dinner

[remote sluice]

but didnt lnow mercy x genji was implied before

[left dirge]

Emre?

[spare fox]

Mauga basically flirts with EVERYONE

[left dirge]

Who’s that

[civic lynx]

I still want them to do something with this

[crisp canyon]

New guy and Freja

[spare fox]

Lifeweaver also flirts with everyone

[left dirge]

Ohhh

[civic lynx]

Like an actual canon meeting or date for them

[peak escarp]

Bap is also attracted to Cassidy, but hasn't acted on it

[left dirge]

Soldier wannabe

[brittle sky]

Okay, so genji and mercy had some sort of dynamic people read as proto-romantic, but it seemed to peter out in canon in their correspondance. Pharah is heavily implied to have feelings for mercy, and mercy mentions having a romantic interest in someone, but that was a few years ago. Emre and Freja's dynamic seems set that it could well be romantic.

[shrewd pivot]

Between roster heroes?

Mercy x Genji was a thing, and Mercy x Pharah was(is?) a thing in canon. Edit: as in Pharah being interested in Mercy

Ana and Reinhardt read as old flames to me but they are def friends atm in canon.

Freja seemingly has romantic pursuit subtext with Emre in comics in canon.

I personally like canon relationships to be like Emily x Tracer, or Hazard x Susie. Roster x off screen character. It lets the fandom create whatever ships with less drama, and lets characters shine with personality/lore instead of flirt lines

[spare fox]

Mercy x Pharah was never canon

[crisp canyon]

Groomercy ship

[left dirge]

Why is u looking for lovers in a game

[brittle sky]

Pharah has a thing for mercy, that has not been actualized and there is no indication whether or not mercy reciprocates (though she mentions liking someone, at least)

[brittle sky]

The fact that different corners of the fandom could apply that to either of the big mercy ships is goofy.

[remote sluice]

its more of lore wise, i joined few days ago, and my fyp is full of random ships so im curious ifthete are any actual ones that r in relationship

[left dirge]

Oh

Cool ig

[shrewd pivot]

The book where Pharah states she is a lesbian heavily implies it. I don't like Pharah x Mercy either but the writer apparently shipped it, they also changed interactions from Mercy being more like an auntie in ow1 to more banter that reads as shipping in ow2.

I personally think Genji x Mercy AND Mercy x Pharah are not good for canon so, yeah

[left dirge]

Do I watch the cinematics or?

[brittle sky]

not between playable characters. One hero is married, a couple are divorced, and two are in ongoing relationships, all to non playable characters.

[peak escarp]

current canon relationships:

• Torbjorn and his wife Ingrid
• Tracer and her girlfriend Emily
• Hazard and his partner Susie

[spare fox]

so Torbjorn is canonically married, Hazard has a girlfriend, Suzie. Reaper and Ana were married to other people (Gabe-Martina and Ana-Sam) both have one child

[remote sluice]

ah man, ty for info tho

[spare fox]

Widowmaker WAS married to Gerard, but she killed him rip

[remote sluice]

is any one of these shown in any cinematics or stiff?

[left dirge]

.

[remote sluice]

oh

[crisp canyon]

Mercy didn’t know Genji as a child tho

[remote sluice]

?

[left dirge]

Yea

[left dirge]

“Ah man”

[spare fox]

DVa thinks BOB is cute, Brig has a crush on someone

[remote sluice]

whats bad abt that😭

[left dirge]

Js means u want lovers in a game

[remote sluice]

And?

[crisp canyon]

I think Sombra playfully teases/flirts with Cassidy sometimes

[left dirge]

Really weird shiz if u ask me

[spare fox]

Junkrat has a weird fear-simp thing going for Junkerqueen, and also the stalker-bot for some reason lol

[remote sluice]

how, its normal theres lovers in games, interactions, skins and lore wise just gives more money to the game owners, whats so bad abt relationships in games

[shrewd pivot]

Also Baptiste you could argue

[crisp canyon]

Junk x sym is my favorite one ever

[remote sluice]

i dont think its weird for someone to want actual relationship between characters, if theres random ships whats issues w acutal lovers

[left dirge]

not bad that they have it js weird ppl want it

[shrewd pivot]

OH Also, it's not explicit canon, but the writer that wrote the Baptiste and Mauga "What you left behind" story said Mauga and Baptiste were written as bad exes, so I personally take that as if Mauga and Baptiste were canonically bad exes. Baptiste left talon to join overwatch. Mauga is still apart of Talon. It's an unhealthy relationship regardless

[left dirge]

which writer

[remote sluice]

i just think good example is rouge and gambit from marvel rivals, it just brings alot of interesting content and just also gives alot of things for the fandom to enjoy and shi

[brittle sky]

Mercy met Pharah when the former was 16 and the latter was... 11? 12?

[left dirge]

I don’t play marvel midvals

[remote sluice]

ohh i see

[brittle sky]

Crash Wong

[crisp canyon]

That’s still weird

[left dirge]

ic

[remote sluice]

was a example of a couple in a game

[left dirge]

cool

[remote sluice]

thats all

[left dirge]

ow already has stuff js let the lore be the lore 😭🙏

[shrewd pivot]

Alyssa Wong

[left dirge]

Oh

[remote sluice]

im not saying shi am i? just said it would be nice to have actual cannon lovers who r playable n shi

[brittle sky]

same writer btw

[left dirge]

ok

[brittle sky]

Si tu dices. I'd argue Mercy was also a child then, and there's no evidence they did anything romantic at that time.

[crisp canyon]

Freja and Emre unless they fake us out again and don’t commit

[left dirge]

ic

[remote sluice]

new characters come oht all the time, so i think it would just be good for the game developers as well xuz they can make alot of money at the end too

[brittle sky]

or freja gotta merc emre before he's too far gone.

[remote sluice]

i hope they do, cuz tbh would be rlly nice to have them as a coulle

couple*

[crisp canyon]

Nobody wants that

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah nothing wrong with wanting to see spouse or dating heroes on the roster, it's just one of many dynamics.

I personally prefer hero x offscreen character

[left dirge]

they have sum couples js sum not playable

[crisp canyon]

This does nothing for how weird it is

[brittle sky]

I mean, idk, seems fun tragedy that would actually commit to consequences rather than the most feel good ending for every character all the time.

[remote sluice]

yeah its sweet, i just rlly love the voice lines between characters, but honestly i do love art when people make off playable x not playable characfer

[left dirge]

For example we have Tracer and her gf

[crisp canyon]

What ab that would be fun?

[left dirge]

Also soldier with his bf

[crisp canyon]

Tragedy is not fun in any definition

[brittle sky]

do you only find stories fun when good things happen to characters? Stories are not a sequence of people we like getting what they want with no trouble. They are reflections and amplifications of human experience - in their triumphs and in their tragedies.

[crisp canyon]

That still wouldn’t be satisfying to just introduce Emre and just have him be offed in lore

Objectively no one would want or like this

[brittle sky]

tell that to most the literary canon, idk. You don't have to personally enjoy tragedy, but it's a hilarious misreading of art to say tragedy is not enjoyable on some objective level.

[remote sluice]

whats the thing between talon and overwatch? r them like groups or does it even have smth to do w lore?

[left dirge]

Rivals

[brittle sky]

Idk, stories need endings. And characters, most of whom are humans, will need an end to their story. For some that should be happy. For others, maybe that would be bittersweet or sad. Rein's subtext has been screaming about how he's gonna die, that that is where his story can and should go, for 8 years now. I'm not saying any character death in lore should be soon or hasty or whatever. Just that I hope the writers have enough creative freedom and creative ambition to both give characters ending, and not always go for the most anodyne, safe, or happy ending when they do.

[crisp canyon]

Reinhardt is a different story he’s always been here, Emre has not and just got here

[shrewd pivot]

To explain my view @remote sluice

Genji x Mercy is not good for canon imo bc Mercy is supposed to be an ethical doctor, and ethical doctors wouldn't date past patients they saved the life of and helped turn into a weapon + dating colleagues as an acting doctor for the team is a nogo on doctor ethics. Genji should date someone he doesn't feel like he owes his life too-- Mercy saved him from the brink of death.

Mercy x Pharah is not good for lore bc Mercy was 17 in university and Pharah 12-13 in that pic. Mercy as a near adult met Pharah when pharah was a tween. If Pharah and Mercy met in thier twenties, it would be different. But I highly doubt Mercy would want to date a Helix merc for hire when Mercy wants less war in the world. Helix is corrupt. Also, again, ethical doctors don't date colleagues as an active doctor on the field.

Freja x Emre is not good for canon imo because Freja was best case scenario 22-23 thrill seeking new recruit with 32-33 seasoned agent Emre, it would be inappropriate for Emre to take advantage of a new recruit like that. 34 and 44 current day isn't the issue, it's the og overwatch ages/dynamics that doesn't feel all that pleasant. I hope Emre doesn't return romantic feelings for Freja in canon, personally

No hate ofc

[brittle sky]

Sure, but his condition is already paralleling 'terminal condition' and 'at risk of becoming a monster forwever'. Both of those are arcs that can and have moved towards satisfying (fun even) and tragic ends in other media. Again, not saying it should be soon, or that's the only fun end for him.

[crisp canyon]

That would be subjective

[brittle sky]

Any read on art is, and even goofy narratives attached to video game franchises are art.

[remote sluice]

understandable, mainly the minor one w mercyx i do think mh bf told me abt them having to change age of a character i think dva? cuz of too much innapropriate videos of her or smth

or maybe mei i dont know

im a bit lost

[shrewd pivot]

In beta for overwatch 1 they aged up DVA to 19 and changed Mercy's age to be older to fit Torbjörn lore iirc

[remote sluice]

how old were theybefore

[brittle sky]

So like... should we only see relationships that are good for their characters? Like, portrayal is not the same as endorsement, surely. Don't super want to get into the ins and outs of how each relationship would be good or bad, but there's a difference between 'this relationship would have morally or ethically bad aspects' and 'this relationship would actively make the story worse'. Like, broadly speaking, characters making bad decisions is the heart of stories, yes? Not to endorse any of those ships or say they would be good, but narrative engagement does not equal endorsement.

[shrewd pivot]

Agreed! As long as the story fundamentally reinforces overwatch's setting and themes of being an optumistic future where hope is narratively a strength (even if its a story about showing what NOT to do, or showing what being a hero means via sacrifices) I am all for it

[shrewd pivot]

Relationships that push character development (aka, characters are not static in the relationship) is the best bet imo. A dynamic of "growing better together" or a relationship of "this made a character realize a personal flaw after breakup" etc etc,

If Freja was older to avoid such an iffy dynamic in og overwatch, it would be a fine ship (Emre is supposed to be an ethical guy seemingly, pushing romance on a new recruit 10 years his junior as a seasoned agent contradicts that imo) As is, it's better off as platonic bc it still pushes character development forwards.

Since they refuse to agknowledge Mercy is morally grey in writing (Moira doesn't really count bc Moira is the obvious villain/wrong in the argument about ignoring ethics to achieve medical breakthroughs) , I think they should showcase Mercy as being an actual ethical doctor. Otherwise, with Mercy's guardian angel motif and by showing a morally grey character doing morally grey things but every reasonable character sees Mercy as very ethical and the narrative portrays Mercy as very ethical despite obvious unethical decisions (her one rule was her tech could not be used for harm in war yet Torbjörn used Mercy's tech to make Ana's biotoc rifle, yet Mercy stayed? Due to... bias from the closeness Mercy has with the Lindholm family presumably?), it comes off as "white savior trope" writing and imo Mercy is not white savior trope.

That's why I am happy to see Freja as a lady in og overwatch, who they openly wrote as an anti-villain(thinks she's a hero but she's doing bad things, did the right things like S&R for the wrong reasons: thrill) that explores more of og overwatch's corruption.

[remote sluice]

i was waiting the whole time for this one lol

[shrewd pivot]

Basically, as long as unhealthy dynamics are portrayed as unhealthy by the narrative(this is a T rated series), I am chill

Mauga and Baptiste is actually a good example of an unhealthy dynamic telling a positive hero story. Baptiste did bad things in Talon, got involved with bad people like Mauga, but Baptiste was a hero for breaking the cycle of violence by being brave and chosing to escape despite the possibile consequence being death by Talon-- it was a selfless act to break the cycle of violence. Baptiste is not forgiven for his misdeeds, he worked hard to do good deeds, dedicated himself to hospital work, and that genuine "trying to do good" was enough that Cassidy saw Baptiste was TRYING and thus invited Baptiste in to overwatch.

Genji x Mercy was "aw cute dating" ignoring the elephant in the room writing.
So is Mercy x Pharah.

Honestly I wish they would write Mercy with more care. She has some pretty big abandonment issues it seems (death of her parents really motivated her to become a doctor, the fact her rule was that her tech was to not be used to do harm yet she personally was a doctor to Genji’s transformation into a weapon to take down the shimada clan via Blackwatch's strong suggestion, and also the Lindholm family bias and Ana biotic rifle, the fact she sided with overwatch despite corruption while people like Emre seemingly left due to how bad the corruption was.)

Like Mercy could have been written to show how an actually ethical moral doctor eventually degrades in ethics as wartime forces impossible decisions, but nah Mercy is a pure and ethical doctor guys, nothing to see here. That being said, if they want to play Mercy straight as an actual moral ethical doctor, she shouldn't be dating colleagues she saves the lives of lol. She would need to eventually address her abandonment issues in lore too, otherwise all her romantic relationships will remain unhealthy until then. If it's portrayed as unhealthy it's chill, but Genji x Mercy in ow1 was portrayed as healthy, so eh.

My Yapping aside

Is it true that there will be a hero release every season going forward???? I expected that for this year, but I expected it to slow down to like 4 heroes or something next year.

That's really too fast imo, idk how the competitive balance or metas will work.

[civic lynx]

Seems like it yeah

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah that's a little scary for the gameplay quality tbh.

Good for lore tho lol

[civic lynx]

They said in the interview it’s a new hero every season beyond this year

[wise grotto]

I mean unless they plan to be more aggressive going forward with balance changes

[civic lynx]

They want to excite players

And it helps to compete with rivals 4 heroes per business minute as well

[shrewd pivot]

Rivals releases too many heroes too fast imo, and the competitive integrity of the game is nothing like overwatch. Very different games in that way

[civic lynx]

Wouldn’t surprise me if they eventually just go toward every hero is broken and has bullshit bc that’s fun to play as

[shrewd pivot]

It will be hard to make hero kits feel unique too, from 3 heroes a year to what... 6 heroes a year from now on?

Or is it more than 6

[civic lynx]

6 per year yeah

[shrewd pivot]

I am hype for the lore tho

[civic lynx]

If they continue with every February is 3-5 heroes at once it could be even more

[shrewd pivot]

I honestly think they should do 4 heroes a year to allow more dev time and polish, that's gotta be wild crunch for 6 heroes a year every season + perks

[civic lynx]

They said they now can get a hero done in less than 6 months

[shrewd pivot]

That's a bit scary

[dry pebble]

Domina is pretty unique imo

[civic lynx]

So they’re probably already working on 2027/2028

[dry pebble]

Her shield and Ult

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Domina is my favorite out of the new heroes, she fits Overwatch's camp very well.

[dry pebble]

I'm so proud of Overwatch by the fact how the game accompanies the first most unique skills in Pvp game firstly

[civic lynx]

Fortnite and now rivals have proven to stay relevant as a live service game nowadays you have to be throwing out content every month minimum

[shrewd pivot]

So we are getting a new hero AND a new map(or map rework) every season this year... I hope it doesn't become quantity over quality

[civic lynx]

This year is a map or map rework every season

[dry pebble]

To be fair

[civic lynx]

They didn’t specify if that will continue beyond this year

[dry pebble]

Like its not that im saying its a Bad decision

[civic lynx]

2027 might slow down map production if Tokyo/iceland are negatively received

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah mbmb I meant this year

[dry pebble]

But this quick produced content majority of time happen to be a not fulfilling the old standarts of Overwatch

[shrewd pivot]

I agree.

[civic lynx]

True but sadly nowadays quality doesn’t matter as much as it used to

[dry pebble]

For my personal view when it comes to Overwatch i heavily seek for that

[civic lynx]

Fortnite gets away with irritating their playerbase literally every 48 hours bc in a few weeks here’s a shit ton of new content, ow will probably end up the same way in a few years

[shrewd pivot]

We need less Wuyang Vendetta JPC, more Orisa Sigma Ramattra kinda deal for lore writing complexity and kit representing lore imo

Mizuki is ok and Domina is nice so far tho

[dry pebble]

For the years people were comparing TF2 with OW but OW managed to differ itself from that more content since release

[dry pebble]

Also need more unique kits for the characters like old times

But to be i can definetly see that will not be the case that often anymore

[civic lynx]

Tbh ow has always somewhat struggled with kit variety since hero shooters in general are limited

[dry pebble]

What do you mean by that

[civic lynx]

A lot of ow heroes are either hybrids of eachother or adding a new gimmick to an existing kit

[dry pebble]

Brigitte, Moira or Wrecking Ball was highly unique to be said

[civic lynx]

OW also took inspiration from TF2 and now rivals for heroes

[dry pebble]

Like i never seen a character that has the ult of Echo since then

[dry pebble]

Yeah but OW differed itself from TF2 alot

Overtime

[dry pebble]

That's is also the reason why Domina is my favorite hero in the New spotlight

There is no other shield that is similar to Domina, Ult also.

[shrewd pivot]

Tbf Echo Loki etc copying a hero ult is pretty common in hero games, like fighter games for example

[dry pebble]

Also when it comes to comparing PVPs i also considering MOBAs too

[dry pebble]

I never seen a copying character in PVP game before Echo

[dry pebble]

Cause games like Lol also takes inspiration for their characters kit from other games as well considering hero shooters im pretty sure

[shrewd pivot]

Overwatch does best when it uses "fantasy DnD class with a scifi twist" + "Pulp fiction or cinema reference"

Lucio is a scifi bard and I love that lol
Cassidy is a western spaghetti set in scifi, also love that

[dry pebble]

Torbjorn is Sci fi Dwarf

My favorite..

[shrewd pivot]

Lifeweaver is a scifi druid
Ramattra a scifi necromancer
Brigitte a scifi holy paladin

Etc etc

[dry pebble]

Now we need a DnD game with Sci fi settings

[dry pebble]

I wouldnt consider Ramattra to be a DND inspired thing

Necromancer is only valid for his skin, it has no relation to that other than that

Brigitte too to be honest

Like yeah im aware of Ow using DnD settings for Sci Fi but it is also known that Ow also using Sci Fi tropes for their characters

[shrewd pivot]

Project Titan (the mmo that was canceled and became overwatch) was meant to be the 'new' WoW for Blizzard. It's basically scifi DnD/WoW worldbuilding yeah lol

[sullen girder]

Wait did talon took over Gibraltar?

[dry pebble]

Winston is a planet of the apes reference
DVA is literal Mecha

[shrewd pivot]

No, Talon just attacked the overwatch Gibraltar base.

[dry pebble]

I'm glad Blizzard didn't ended up creating another MMO

Starcraft and Warcraft is awesome and it ends there

[sullen girder]

Then why are their talon flags hanging by the ship?

[shrewd pivot]

He has the Null sector robot rapture essentially, and plans to release the captured omnic minds once humanity goes extinct. His og concepts were from a PvE Pharoah enemy using sand that summoned enemies iirc. Pretty Necromancery to me, but maybe it's a different class

[shrewd pivot]

Story telling I am guessing? To show who was attacking.

As far as I know Talon didn't actually capture Gibraltar did they? Sorry maybe im mistaken

[dry pebble]

Yeah but over the time pass Necromancer thing was something that got left behind, and ended up becoming a robot Moses

Just like Egyptian theme, which im thankful of

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah its def a loose inspo, like Lucio is a scifi bard but it's his own thing too

[dry pebble]

Being Moses inspired creates a great correlation between him and his hatred towards Anubis AI which is an egypt god. Reference to Exodus

[shrewd pivot]

Yep!

Also Ramattra as a "Shepard to his people"

[dry pebble]

I know its gonna sound like forced but i also somewhat speculate

[sullen girder]

Oh I just remembered, they did announce a new cinematic is coming to show the battle didn’t they?

[dry pebble]

His ability "Vortex" is pillar of fire and cloud inspired

But this just feels like a stretch

Although, suprisingly the movement of Vortex moves similar to pillar of fire and cloud is depicted to be

• has a perk that adjusts skill healing as well

[shrewd pivot]

No idea sorry

[shrewd pivot]

"Put them in the ground" -- read as Ramattra pulling people into a dust devil sand vortex and necromancer into the ground. Idk tho haha

[dry pebble]

As we at it i just got in the Tiktok and someone just ranked Diasel Baron and Doctor skin 0/10

People is crazy

[shrewd pivot]

Diesel Baron is an L tho it's so goofy looking lol

But yeah Ramattra has a lot of fun motifs to his design

[dry pebble]

I play Ram time to time i find Diasel Baron to be tuff

Like every other hero's skins are changing their heads in different presence why is it being problem when it comes to Ramattra

[civic lynx]

https://x.com/owcavalry/status/2025008836617085173?s=46

Overwatch Cavalry (@OWCavalry)

Archives Missions May Return in #Overwatch 📂

Alec Dawson says the team has discussed it, and if community sentiment is strong and the mode works in the upgraded engine, a limited-time return is possible.

X · Feb 21, 2026, 12:45 AM

[dry pebble]

Why they havent done this arleady

[civic lynx]

The missions “broke” in the transition to OW2 and would need to be fully rebuilt and they just didn’t think it was worth the time and effort

[dry pebble]

Like Retribution should've broughten back before Vendetta Release, majority of OW players are started the game in sequal

[dry pebble]

Is it that buggy

My fault

[civic lynx]

Now that they’re prioritising lore again after shooting PvE in the head bringing back archives actually makes sense

Storm rising is the only one that isn’t really that necessary since it was meant to set up ram who is MIA currently

[shrewd pivot]

More like, probably not for long while based on how he actually worded it in the interview. It's not completely abandoned but it's not coming very soon imo

[dry pebble]

I want to buy that skin if it comes back to store

[civic lynx]

But uprising and mainly retribution returning would be nice

[dry pebble]

But i know Blizzard gonna make it overpriced for god fucking sake

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah a yearly lore mission like archives did during anniversary would be the ideal way to do it imo. 1 pve mission per year, pushes the lore forward, creates hype.

[dry pebble]

If we had a third PVE mission, what event in OW history would it take place in

[civic lynx]

I’ve always wanted a PvE mission or animated short for the original Omnic crisis (the flashback in bastion’s cinematic doesn’t count, think more like rein’s one)

[dry pebble]

Operation White Dome with Reinhardt and Torbjorn, Emre as announcer 🔥 🔥 🔥

OW Co-Op Mission

[twilit patrol]

Let us play Archives with perks if it returns 🙏

[civic lynx]

If vendetta is gonna be defeated in February 2027 a PvE mission for her final battle could be cool if handled properly

[twilit patrol]

I miss Retribution sm

[civic lynx]

Retribution my goat 🥹

[shrewd pivot]

Genesis animated shorts exist.

There was also originally an overwatch animated series plan for Netflix, but it was canceled bc of employee poaching (companies stealing employees from eachother).

So imo, a future overwatch animated series isn't completely impossible

[dry pebble]

This might actually happen if Ow continues in a direction of turning theirself into an another oftenly update releasing PVP with various of money demanding features

Basically if they collect the budget for it

Omg

In Retribution, we were in the road of trying to escape Rialto

What if in the gameplay of defeating Vendetta, we are trying to get through Rialto to her Office which was hers fathers previously @civic lynx

🔥 🔥 🔥

[civic lynx]

Definitely possible tbh

[shrewd pivot]

The original plan was ow1(pvp crawl), ow2(pve walk), ow3(project Titan mmo run)

My guess is that they still might try to make an overwatch mmo one day. WoW makes a lot of money, so they have financial incentive to make an overwatch mmo imo

Especially since Valorant is apparently making an mmo called Project T.

[weak oak]

Are Mercy and Roadhog actually together or am I being trolled

[civic lynx]

Could also make use of this big ass area they never used for PvE before its cancellation

[dry pebble]

They don't even know each other

[dry pebble]

Lol

[weak oak]

It's what I guessed lol

[shrewd pivot]

It's a joke from devs. Roadhog x Mercy is not canon lol

[weak oak]

They live completely different life styles

[dry pebble]

Instead of shooting Vendetta like the death of her father, It is Doomfist that jumps to her through the Window without her concern

A mirrored death of father and daughter

[civic lynx]

Havana also has a large unused PvE area that could be put to use for a new mission

[dry pebble]

Blizzard make Operation White Dome PVE

Release Istanbul map with it

I would also love Emre in it but

I'm gonna be honest with y'all outside of his Design

Moveset is also ended up being a dissapointment but i hold the Ow developers sudden change of becoming an average pvp game responsible

A Tactician would make up a GREAT support..

[shrewd pivot]

Wait if we have 50 heroes now, 5 more on the way, and it's +6 for the years after that.

If they really are planning 10 more years of overwatch, that's over 100 total roster heroes after 10 years. There's NO way it actually ends up like that.

Either they eventually slow down yearly hero releases, they do hero reworks instead of new hero release for a few seasons, or they eventually turn overwatch into an mmo at that point.

[crisp canyon]

It’s only 10 this year for the tenth anniversary

It’ll go back to 3 next year

4 if anything they decide to increase

[crisp canyon]

I’ll put this hear 2 incase anyone wants to know mercy and weaver are getting small reworks next season, weaver is getting cleanse to his base kit pull, and Mercy flash heal will be in her base kit

[spare fox]

is Mizuki's left arm a prosthetic arm?

[crisp canyon]

Yes

[spare fox]

interesting

wonder if that's going to be part of his story

as in, what's released this year

his is likely going to be a 2-parter seeing as how there's the focus on his story in 2 weeks, then again when it's the Hashimoto season

I hope I hope I hope at midseason we get more teasers, on maps and in voicelines

back to his left hand, can anyone tell if he is right-handed or left-handed?

[crisp canyon]

I believe next season Iceland is coming as a map but i could be wrong, they said each season this year will have a new map or reworked map. I think it’s confirmed tho Iceland and the new Japanese map are the only new ones tho

But I could be wrong and if it’s a deadlock hero like rumors say it makes more sense to have a reworked 66 instead that season

[spare fox]

I don't necessarily think reworked map = lore-relevant map but it's entirely possible

Alec said that current maps, even popular ones, might get a new coat of paint and some lore/just for fun changes, not necessarily reworks

so anything's possible

[lone eagle]

Bro how did Hanzo deal so much damage to Genji that he needs to become a cyborg?

[spare fox]

likely Hanzo bisected him and probably cut off 1-3 limbs. Some theorize-myself included - that Genji also fell a great distance which would not have helped his condition either

[lone eagle]

Mmm that makes more sense. Thanks so much man

[spare fox]

yeah and in case ou didn't know, Hanzo fought Genji with a sword, and ever since he (thought he) killed Genji, he hasn't picked up the blade since, hence why he uses bow and arrow now

[lone eagle]

So you’re telling me that we could’ve had Twin Shimada genji’s in game

[spare fox]

... no lol

[worthy rose]

You can actually see Hanzo swing his bow like a sword in the Dragons cinematic, a nice touch to the lore.

[spark mica]

Okay umm sorry if im late to this party but

I got a new theory in the pot

I think that Sigma is gonna rather leave or somehow disobey Talon!!!1

[grim condor]

Is Bob like an actual sentient omnic or is he just a robot

[grim condor]

"What do you mean Sombra left? That's an option????"

Wait actually how did they leave

Doesn't Talon have like a nobody leaves thing

You leave you die L bozo

Did they just vanish

[spark mica]

Yeah

Funny how its the three thats BEST at vanishing

[spark mica]

Well he also dislikes vendetta

[spark mica]

im 110% sure he is an omnic

his name is "Big omnic Butler"

or something like that

[grand wedge]

He is an omnic.

Echo is a robot tho. Same with Orisa

[civic lynx]

I think vendetta is more like if you don’t agree with me get the fuck out

Moira says reaper, Sombra and widow left bc they disagreed with leadership so vendetta probably just let them leave bc she thinks if they ever did try to stop her she could just use all the recourses talon has to deal with them

[shrewd pivot]

BOB is an awakened omnic, sapient.

[grim condor]

Why is D.Va canonically an omnic lover💔

Her interaction with Ashe

Hana: "I saw you on a wanted poster with a cute guy!"

Ashe: Scoff "Tell me you don't mean Cassidy..."

Hana: "Ew, no! The tall one with the little hat!"

Ashe: "Oh, BAWWB? I'll tell him you said hello."

Shes just like me fr🥹

[left dirge]

lol

[spark mica]

She gotta hand it to em, she does fly a big mech

and she cares for the thing like a child

[left dirge]

im still confused from how vendetta won against doom

[spark mica]

shared empathy between passion and war

[grim condor]

Don't think about it too much

[spark mica]

We're just thankful it moves the plot

[grim condor]

He's been out of action for a while and hes in his 60s

[spark mica]

60S???

[grim condor]

I'm pretty sure yeah

No

Hes 47

I googled it

Lmao

😭

[spark mica]

damn

[grim condor]

The suits and the whole terrorist organisation leader thing makes him seem a lot older

Still Vendetta is younger, has been training a lot over the past however tf long, and he had only just been warned she was coming, right?

He's been out of action for a while acting from the shadow

[left dirge]

no

im annoyed

doom is my goat

im not letting that shi slide

[spark mica]

Let me catch you up to speed over 'ere

We've all tried defending him

We've all tried to keep him as our goat

But then we had our minds changed

We thought "Wait... blizzard is actually moving the lore!"

and we sorts became complacent with that fact that our goat was beaten

[wise grotto]

And also like
Vendetta taking over fits dooms philosophy of conflict makes people stronger
She’s reckless and just keeps going headfirst into as much conflict as possible it WILL catch up to her but it will also make everyone she’s attacked stronger in the end

[spare fox]

so what's everyone's speculation for how the story will go over the next seasons? How will Talon do with Deadlock vs Helix, Hashimoto, and the Junkers?

[spark mica]

i thought they were allies with the hashimoto

and attempting to develop relations with the junkers

[spare fox]

Me, I think Talon will succeed at Grand Mesa despite OW's efforts and the S2 Helix hero will join up with Overwatch to help get back what Talon gets from Grand Mesa

[civic lynx]

I think either talon will complete the helix infiltration mission easily possibly with the help of echo (if talon win the conquest event) and Frankie if she is S2’s hero or if S2’s hero is helix head of security talon’s objective fails bc of them

Idk much about the Hashimoto but I think the junkers storyline may end up with them forming very very shaky alliance with talon that doesn’t last long at all

[wise grotto]

I personally think deadlock vs helix is up next

[civic lynx]

Definitely seems like it will be

[shrewd pivot]

My guess is that Talon succeeds stealing the asset from Grand Mesa (presumably the super soldier serum), it would create bigger tensions for the finale of this year's arc

[spare fox]

Hashimoto season, I think will be a little more complicated: I think it will result in Mizuki getting gravely injured (losing his arm), Kiriko trying to help him despite finding out that he was working for the Hashimoto, him getting out finally and to Overwatch for medical help and for protection

[civic lynx]

I hope S3’s hero is a high up member and/or (idk really how their ranks work) elder of the hashimoto clan, maybe the one that injures mizuki themselves so we immediately get to see how brutal they can be

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah in Hashimoto arc, Mizuki will probably defect from Hashimoto to Yōkai gang or Overwatch.

Kappa lore is that an arm is stolen which indebted the Kappa for labor, so Mizuki probably already lost his arm by the time he starts infiltrating Yōkai gang for Hashimoto

[spare fox]

MAYBE but I feel like that would have been mentioned in his bio if it "happened already", you know?"

[shrewd pivot]

Fair!

[spare fox]

yes he's in game with the prosthetic but I think on the timeline, it hasn't happened yet and will be one of the first things that happens in his story

it's weird, but I think that's the case

[shrewd pivot]

I could def see that. It could go either or, depends on how close the writers take the Kappa inspo, regardless the Hashimoto will def take his arm sometime

[spare fox]

and I think in Overwatch, he'll be touched by Kiriko saving his life despite his betrayal (even though I'm pretty sure she'll know he's really good), and at Overwatch, he'll get the prosthetic and form a bond with Genji over it

and I think over time, he'll still have superstitious tendencies but I think over his arc his worldview will change

[shrewd pivot]

I think if Kiriko knows her dad decided to give Mizuki anima tech, she would know Mizuki was deep down a good person, yeah

[spare fox]

yeah and also like, Kiriko knows him

and I don't think it'll be a "third act misunderstanding" situation where Kiriko just automatically believes he's bad with the Hashimoto. I think she'll be hurt, but she'll hear him out and believe he's good

my predictions, anyway

[shrewd pivot]

True! It's just the context of Mizuki technically being a double agent for Hashimoto. If Kiriko learns he was lying WITH the context of her dad giving Mizuki Anima tech, she would probably realize Mizuki wasn't fully lying and that he does authentically have good in him

[spare fox]

100%

[shrewd pivot]

Mizuki's prosthetic arm really integrates his Anima tech weapon (the chain part), so it will be interesting to learn where/when he got his prosthetic arm.

[spare fox]

true true

I just think that IF he loses it as part of his story in S3, and he needs serious medical help beyond what Kiriko can do, it would be a good parallel between Genji and Mizuki if Mizuki "escapes" his old life and begins anew in Overwatch

[shrewd pivot]

Ooo yeah that would be a fun parallel /genuine

[spare fox]

and a sweet albeit short reunion with Kiriko and Genji, where she asks Genji to take care of him - with the sorta multi-level meaning

now the Junkers...

Junkers - god who knows lol... I feel like vibe-wise, Queen will HATE Vendetta for commanding respect

BUT if there is something she can do for the Queen, I think she could persuade a shakey alliance as you said

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah the Junkers response to Vendetta's offer is hard to even guess for lmao Junkers are a wildcard of sorts. Mauga vs Junkers will be very fun to see tho

I agree with @civic lynx about a potential shaky alliance, if it doesn't become outright animosity

[spare fox]

as for the 4 individual junkers...

Junkerqueen - stays in Junkertown, she's not giving that up. Whether she gives enforcements to Talon, that's up in the air

Wrecking Ball - stays with the Queen but - as we saw with this short story - he's also got high mobility (like in game) and will be able to 'disappear' to continue the Lucheng Interstellar storyline

as needed

I really don't see Hammond having any allegiance to anyone - Talon or Overwatch - just staying as Odessa's ally, she's his closest friend right now

Junkrat - god I don't know. Logically, he's gonna want to do whatever the Queen is doing. However, I think a lot in his story has ultimately pointed to the fact that he does NOT belong in Junkertown

idk maybe it's me wishing real hard as a Junkrat main and him being one of my fav characters, but I hope he winds up with Overwatch. Maybe not as a welcomed recruit, obviously, but more like he's detained, or "detained" winkwink

[spark mica]

He is umm... attempting to improve with others

like the only link ii see is through the help of baptiste

[shrewd pivot]

I don't think overwatch would ever welcome in Junkers at this point, especially not Junkrat, but it would be hilarious if Junkrat asserts himself as Overwatch's 'newest recruit!' and overwatch agents are like "He is NOT with us." Lol

[spare fox]

I think (and again maybe it's my hopes coloring my judgment) if he's removed from the external influences of Junkertown - the radiation, the chaos, the society - he would actually grow a bit but obv still be chaotic and silly

[spark mica]

OFC HE'LL GROW

Like a flower being put into the right enviroment

[spare fox]

he just needs a good influence - like you mentioned, Baptiste

[spark mica]

And he actually does seek guidence... kinda?

[spare fox]

I mean he IS an engineering genius

[shrewd pivot]

Maybe it's bc of the writing changes from ow1 to ow2, but in ow1 Junkrat was very much violent and terroristy. In ow2 he's more goofy-less-insidious and a verbal punching bag for the Junkers.

[spark mica]

Did ask Ana to adopt him so she can guide him

[spare fox]

this, he's definitely changed and I hope it's bc they're eying him to be OW

[spark mica]

Also lets take some time to apreciate how every version of junkrat is inherently intelegent

like junkerstein

[shrewd pivot]

That would be a much better route than the seeming flanderizing of his character between ow1 to ow2, I hope it was done with purpose for a greater arc

[spare fox]

he gets Winston's periodic table joke!!!

[spark mica]

And understands Sigma's paradoxes

[spare fox]

yes and fun fact, regarding Sigma's voiceline with him

he responds to Sigma's paradox with "Zeno's paradox" but I'm 100% certain junkrat isn't labeling Sigma's paradox as "Zeno's paradox" which would be incorrect (it's not Zeno's paradox) BUT I think he's answering Sigma's question with Zeno's paradox WHICH -
also fun fact: is exactly what Mei answers to the same voiceline!!!!

she explains Zeno's paradox as an answer to Sigma's question/paradox

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Junkrat actually being very intelligent and educated adds a lot to his character imo.

Tho hm... help me out here, I honestly can't comprehend Junkrat going through a anti-omnic to non anti-omnic arc if he were to join Overwatch. That would kind of undo a core aspect of his character, scrapping mechs and seemingly omnics to use for his prosthesis and bomb tech in that iconic Junker aesthetics fashion.

[spare fox]

eh I don't think the omnic/anti-omnic sentiments are as much of a "litmus test" in the story as some make it out to be

like, Freya works for Max and Vendetta

Zarya and Torb were very very anti-omnic and over the course of one story changed their POV entirely

[shrewd pivot]

Being anti-omnic is narratively a immoral trait tho.

Freja is a hypocrite and views omnics as less than.

[spare fox]

I don't think it's as deep-set and analagous to real-world racism as that

narratively speaking

[shrewd pivot]

Torbjörn had a proper arc,

Zarya had a half-assed 1 comic to change i agree lol

[spark mica]

Wonder how max is gonna feel about the potential partnership with Jq

y'know

[spare fox]

PLUS, and if we bring it back to the voicelines here, his interactions with the omnics are a lot more tame in OW2

[spark mica]

Doing quite the number to the omnic population in australia

[spare fox]

like he's got those silly interview interactions with them

[spark mica]

And theres bastion living in his garage

[shrewd pivot]

It's def not analogous to bigotry like racism.

Being Anti-omnic is about omnic crisis PTSD, denying the fact awakened omnics are sapient beings worthy of respect. But omnics CAN be hacked into becoming metal bodied weapons at any point, which makes omnics technically a reasonable concern.

Still, Torbjörn's arc really showed that being anti-omnic is not moral. So I doubt overwatch would welcome in agents that would want Bastion and Genji/Sojourn scrapped bc they are "robotic".

[spare fox]

ok ok and let me just pull this back a little more
Overwatch as a franchise has been around for TEN YEARS some of us saw that Mondatta cinematic ten years ago and were like "ok but can't they just fix him? he's a robot right?"
Over the course of TEN YEARS we learned that that wasn't the case and we changed our minds
The omnic crisis took place over TWO years, from two years anubis hijacked non-sentient omnics and then two years later they were basically humans

[spark mica]

With some... slight diffrences but basicially a 1:1 copy

Though there is the whole 1 generation thing which might be a problem for sure

[brittle sky]

I honestly think his writing shifts to 2 show a lot more depth. He was just a mad bomber up to silly schemes in his ow1 writing. 2 does a lot better to show him off as a kid (he was tied as the youngest male character for awhile) failed by the society he grew up in, scrapping by because that's the only way he knows how to survive, and desperate for community and belonging (manifest in his fanciful often semi delusional attempts to ingratiate himself).

[spare fox]

and you also have to consider, again, it's not a litmus test binary where you either have PTSD over omnics or like them... there's nuance

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, the thing is, in canon now, it's public/common knowledge to overwatch agents that awakened omnics are sapient beings.

(Ignoring Sojourn informing Reinhardt, that was probably just to let new players understand the lore)

[spare fox]

yes, I understand that.

[spare fox]

what I'm saying is that it is NOT analagous to racism where it's systemic and culturally- and generationally ingrained. This was something that happened over 2 years.

[spark mica]

Well it tends o lean more over to that side

though you've got some points leaning it back on the right side

[brittle sky]

We got a bead on that timeline past the wiki?

[shrewd pivot]

Right, so that's why current canon overwatch wouldn't be accepting in agents that actively dehumanize/kill awakened omnics and potentially cyborgs, like Junkrat.

[spare fox]

in OW2, we don't see him acting that way, though

like I'm sure he's not going to have 100% enlightened views but it's not like the way you say it

[brittle sky]

I mean they actively wanted Freja back (at least Winston does) and she has far more Animus vs omnics than ow2 junkrat

[spare fox]

and cyborgs? half of junkertown are missing limbs idt he or anyone has anything against cyborgs
look at his interaction with Sojourn. He respects that

[shrewd pivot]

He participates with the junkers in the heroes ascendant stories, no? The recent event with Junkrat’s treasure turning out to be a ship was ow2 lore, unless im mistaken

[shrewd pivot]

JunkerQueen threatens Genji iirc. And Junkrat follows the Queen's lead as you had said.

[spare fox]

yeah, I just read it. Idk what you mean participating in what? it was his execution and if anything, it showed that they (Junkerqueen and Junkrat and Hog) don't have respect for Junkers either

[brittle sky]

He weaves in and out of junker society but is mostly in a weak exile and we have no indication he participated in junker town's anti omnic violence.

[spark mica]

Well he just Relates to Sojourn and likes that they're both "More metal then flesh"

[shrewd pivot]

That would be wild if Junkrat is confirmed to have never killed an omnic in canon

[spark mica]

Honestly i see that happening

Dont see any of his tech made of omnic

or something of the sort

[spare fox]

this, exactly. Like I said earlier, there have been MULTIPLE narrative references to the fact that he does NOT belong in Junkertown. He's not like them in a lot of ways.

[spark mica]

though who knows he might've never used one of them for scrap

[shrewd pivot]

So... Junkrat's seemingly killed/hurt people with his bombs but not omnics?

[spare fox]

seemingly

[spark mica]

Might've gotten in the crossfire at most

[spare fox]

other than that Hyde guy and honestly, I think they've changed his character since then. That was before the game was released, OW1 that is

[shrewd pivot]

But roadhog has definitely killed omnics, right?

[brittle sky]

Like you're overestimating the queens influence here. He clearly departs from her on omnics (she wants them all dead so much cyborgs make her list; he has funny little interviews with them), his fawning seems just that - a fawning response - mixed with his self delusions. He's actively planned to assassinate her before.

[spare fox]

right, I was getting to Roadhog but.. Junkrat's more interesting lol

[spark mica]

Were those omnium blokes omnics or just bots?

[spare fox]

we don't know yet

[shrewd pivot]

The outback omnium explosion occured after the awakening, atleast.

[spark mica]

quite possible

[spare fox]

right and there's "feral" omnics... we can assume they're awakened but are they just devolved into survivalism? has the radiation affected their programming?

[brittle sky]

Ehhhhb

[spark mica]

Most likely messed up their storage compartment or somethin

[shrewd pivot]

Has to be, the omnium exploded bc awakened omnics were given land that the ALF disagreed with, and attacked which blew up the omnium.

[spark mica]

Well credits to roadhogs team to killing them (Though im uncertian if they were actual bots or Omnic)

gotta wait till a new roadhog interaction

Ah stupid dum dum

why am i uncertian

[brittle sky]

That seems a lot like junker propaganda dehumanizing them when in reality they're just driven by desperation to be violent scavengers cultures. Like in the wb gods Hammond speculates they're degraded by circumstance, but he's just going off what the queen tells him and the hard text shows multiple signs of intelligence from them.

[spare fox]

that's just speculation though

on your part and Hammond's part

we don't actually know for a fact one way or the other

[shrewd pivot]

Options:
JunkerQueen is lying, and feral omnics do not exist, they are just regular omnics

"Feral" omnics are just akin to the junkers being "Feral" humans, madmax survivalists

"Feral" omnics are being slowly deteriorated by outback heat/radiation which makes them more susceptible to anubis coding triggers (like how Bastion was triggered easily) -- some feral omnics would be less degraded than others

[spark mica]

That woodpecker had it comming

[spare fox]

that is interesting to compare the feral omnics to pre-Torb Bastion... that might just be the case honestly

[brittle sky]

I just say we don't have any evidence to believe the feral thing is true, and personally I hope the thing that would justify or lessen the genocidal violence of a society coded as doing categorical violence on a specific type of being isn't true, y'know?

[spare fox]

it really could go either way at this point, though

[spark mica]

MAybe its from their bodies and coding degrading due to radioation/time without maintenance

[spare fox]

that's the thing

[shrewd pivot]

Very true, but just like with Bastion pre-Torbjorn anubis coding deletion, any actual feral omnic shouldn't be purged, they should be helped.

I think it would be more interesting worldbuilding wise, if the radiation/heat impacted omnics in some way, since it clearly impacted the junkers as humans

[spare fox]

anyway, I don't think viewing the junkers as a monolith and then copy-pasting those beliefs onto one character who has shown a bit more complexity than that is really a way to test whether or not he'd be "accepted" by overwatch, you know

they're not going to be like "oh well, the Queen wants you dead and you're a wanted criminal and a genius BUT you were mean to omnics so...." slams door

[brittle sky]

Like going "it's not that bad, they're craaazy or zombies because the radiation" is pretty gross, given how omnics swerve in parallel (never strict equivalent but very thoroughly parallel) to any number of othered groups.

[spare fox]

I mean, that's not what I'm saying

[spark mica]

Who knows, they might welcome him in with open arms thanks to his prowess of explosives and somewhat tactical mind

[spare fox]

now now, I didn't say open arms

lol

[spark mica]

Yeah I said that

[spare fox]

there will definitely be friction

which I love

[brittle sky]

Not saying you are! Just that going down the path of them being feral ends up the writers saying that.

[spare fox]

the Overwatch crew is too cutesy buddy-buddy, needs some conflict there

[spark mica]

Especially between... most of them since he keeps on spreading mayhem

[shrewd pivot]

Well, if Junkrat completely disavows Junkers, and completely disavows anti-omnic sentiments, it could happen i suppose. Like a Baptiste arc kinda in a way. I just think getting rid of Junkrat’s well... junk rat scrappy aesthetics does his character identity a disservice. Junkrat really should never be "cleaned up", he should have dirty and scraps and explosions

[spark mica]

The most conflict i see is.... idk the two brothers? but one aint even in OW officaly

That cast is too cutesy

[spare fox]

they don't need to get rid of it, though. No one says they need to get rid of his character identity.
Again, I point to his interview-interactions with the omnics. THAT is his identity I'm talking about

[spark mica]

Just acts like an actual interviewer

[spare fox]

and again, there is nuance to peoples' relationships to omnics. It's not just "kill them all" and "omnics are ok!" there exists people in between, you know?

[spark mica]

Like umm... rein ig?

i kinda forgot about his omnic opinions

[brittle sky]

I mean that's kinda an increasing tendency to release frictionless characters with no real snags.

[spark mica]

i'd wadger hes soewhat on the middle

maybe on the more morally green

[spare fox]

lol Junkrat is morally orange idk

[brittle sky]

He was shown consistently as accepting and even defending omnics in ow1 and ow2 pvp and has no trouble treating them as people, they just made him thoughtless and a bit old man uninformed in invasion both to be an audience surrogate to explain to and to give him a mild blemish to redeem when he inevitably dies defending an omnic.

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I wouldn't want that, instead if they go that route of omnics being impacted by heat/radiation, I would want it to be a tragedy for the omnics to live through/witness, akin to the tragedy junkers have living through/witnessing radiation sickness. It's just that junkers are humans that maybe lash out then stop moving dying from radiation sickness, while omnics have anubis coding take over until thier circuits fry and stop moving.

JunkerQueen could be using a tragic situation to create a scapegoat, and then narrative would clearly show that JunkerQueen is WRONG and that junkers AND omnics were abandoned in the irradiated outback, humanity's negligence.

[spark mica]

oh yeah kinda forgot about those ones

Why didnt any country help the outback again?

[shrewd pivot]

Seemingly too dangerous to enter, not worth the resources

[spare fox]

keep in mind also, the Junkerqueen learned that her champ was a friggin hamster in a mech... I think her mentality and worldviews are little more pliable than "omnics bad, humans good"

which also brings back her potential allegiance to Talon

[shrewd pivot]

I would not trust JunkerQueen in a room with an awakened omnic. Lol she's extremely anti-omnic i don't think she would care if the omnic is "feral omnics" or our Bastion or Zenyatta.

[spark mica]

She killed many of em

[spare fox]

I don't think she'd turn down Talon solely on the basis of "they work with Omnics"

[spark mica]

normal fellas, ravengers

She dont descriminate

[brittle sky]

I mean... It's more "I'm the best, humans are all weak idiots, omnics all die (#1 rule and made for junkertown), Hammond is cool and makes her things".

[spare fox]

she's a leader, she can't be that reactive

[shrewd pivot]

She'd turn down Talon because they represent the outside world that abandoned the junkers, Vendetta is a threat to JunkerQueen's topdog rule, plus Maximilien is on the Talon table, I don't think JunkerQueen would trust Maximilien

[brittle sky]

I think if she turns down talon it's much much "f you you can't tell me what to do" in a mix of reactive ego and cannily recognizing talon would just be looking to use junkers as fodder.

[spare fox]

I don't think that monolithic thinking applies. If there's something in it for Junkerqueen, I think she'd cooperate. But she's not going to go "let me see your employee directory - oh you've got an omnic, buh-bye"

right, exactly

I'm split on where Junkerqueen would land

I also think she'd hate Vendetta. They're basically opposites

[spark mica]

I'm sniffing out something like the Reckkoning

[spare fox]

the same but opposites, which makes sense

[shrewd pivot]

IF JunkerQueen was aware of Maximilien's involvement, she would not trust Talon imo.

I think a shaky alliance could be made if Vendetta offers JunkerQueen something JQ desires. Or, negotiations could blow up.

[spark mica]

She'd challenge Maunga/ He'd challenge Jq, and they both get something if one wins

[brittle sky]

Are they? I take them more as too similar to like each other.

[spare fox]

again, this is monolithic thinking

it's not that rigid, there's nuance

[spark mica]

One makes flimsy relationships covering a short term plan, whilst the other befriends even one of the most murdeous folk in the outback

[shrewd pivot]

JunkerQueen being loudly anti-omnic puts her in a "you must give me something I really want, otherwise I will destroy you" catagory when dealing with omnics tbf

[spark mica]

Though i do see their backstories somewhat simmilar

[spare fox]

they are similar in how they fought for where they are, but opposite in how they view leadership, leadership's job, and how they treat their allies/subjects

[spark mica]

Both of them rose to power, after losing nearly everything and end up where they are

[spark mica]

what a way to hit a home run

[spare fox]

basically, I think Vendetta is prone to become more like King Howl

[spark mica]

I can see that

[brittle sky]

Both are might makes right authoritarian warlords who fully believe they're entitled to their power coming from their backstory as an outsider cast out of centers of power becoming a gladiator who then depose the leader of that power center. Both see their underlings as assets for their own gratification, who better serve or else, with no real sense of reciprocal loyalty to them.

[spare fox]

thing I disagree on is the entitlement. I don't think Odessa felt entitled, more that she was righting a wrong that was done to her family when Howl banished them. She is more about unifying the junkers rather than using them... Junkrat and Roadhog are just constantly thorns in her side so they're an exception, not the rule

[shrewd pivot]

Both are modern day gladiators, that lost everything, had a family vendetta, fought up the ranks by battling against robots and humans in mech suits in a gladiator arena, became "mob" boss tyrants that openly attack enemies.

Vendetta wants people to serve under her, she believes she deserves power.

JunkerQueen punishes any backstabbers, she rules with a horrific iron fist but seemingly stays loyal to those that are actually loyal to her (like Wreckingball)

[brittle sky]

I think the thing is jq is also like howl. She's just better at bullying her minions and recognizing when to knock them down a peg. Wasted land makes clear her regime his onerous to junkers below, and her talking to junkers is always just bullying them in amusing ways. She talks a big game in her cinematic about not punching down, but in practice she just punches down more strategically.

[shrewd pivot]

Especially with her writing in game, JunkerQueen seems like a queen corrupting

[spare fox]

which, to be fair, is kinda necessary in a lawless bullying society like junkertown

she can't use kindness and logic, she'd be overthrown

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, but it's notable that perhaps a young JunkerQueen would disagree with a future JunkerQueen's corruption.

[spare fox]

she's the thin line between Junkertown society and absolute mob rule just tearing itself down

[brittle sky]

Like she laughs at the idea she is supposed to provide basic government services to junkers. And while I don't think her entitlement stems from heredity like vendetta (or how Ven kinda sorta is), she is entitled. My throne is where I say it is, this is mine, etc.

[spare fox]

Part of me wonders if the difference between Odessa in the cinematic ten years ago and JQ in game is the fact that power corrupts, if the JQ thing is all an act to keep up appearances among the junkers and keep their respect, or if she's just succumbed to some of the radiation and violence from that society

[shrewd pivot]

Absolute power corrupts Absolutely sure would fit JunkerQueen's story imo

Notably the Greek "hero" in Greek mythos is not actually indicative of a good person, but rather someone who survives many feats. Odessa herself is named after Odysseus, the Greek hero that had like a 600 men crew and all of the crew died except for Odysseus due to his rather selfish leadership/choices lol

[brittle sky]

I think she's brutal and violent at all stages, she's just brutal, violent, and with 10 years to puff up her ego, presume her own authority, and otherwise grow complacent in game.

[spare fox]

yeah

so I want to talk about Roadhog too

honestly, I think Roadhog is hella tired, I think he'd like to go back to living on the outskirts of junkertown

and if he knows that Junkrat is "safe" - in Overwatch - I think he can go back to that

[brittle sky]

But fundamentally agree with spooky regarding the rat - presuming writers don't beef it, junkrat doesn't make sense to subsume into merely being a minion of the queen, would 100% break for ow rather than talon, and if they allow the junker ecology to have an internal story rather than just mine it for threats for ow to fight, he's the obvious and best choice for a local protagonist.

[spare fox]

because - while I think he cares about Junkrat despite what he says, and he feels responsible for him being what he is in the wasted land that he (roadhog) created - Roadhog also knows that Junkrat doesn't belong in junkertown society either

[shrewd pivot]

Both Roadhog and JQ in ow2 use Junkrat like a verbal punching bag. In ow1 I got more of the dynamic duo "Roadhog would begrudgingly miss Junkrat’s company"

but in ow2, Roadhog seems to be pretty insidious towards Junkrat. Pretty sure he joked about Junkrat dying or something in one of the heroes ascendant stories

I personally prefer the ow1 "begrudgingly would miss Junkrat’s company" vibes

[spare fox]

ehhhhh I think it's all a facade tho. If roadhog wanted junkrat dead, he'd be dead

Roadhog cares about junkrat, he'd never admit it

[brittle sky]

I think this somewhat under sells his "world deserves the trouble I bring it" mentality. And yeah he's totally just a gruffer lone wolf type

[spare fox]

and he knows he doesn't belong in Junkertown society, and he protects junkrat not only for the 50% but also because he's responsible for making that society

[shrewd pivot]

Tbf i think Roadhog is the "just wants to be left alone" type that had a reason to go all out with Junkrat by being Junkrat’s body guard bc of the treasure, doing a crime spree, etc

Idk what Roadhog would do in lore/story if Junkrat genuinely joined Overwatch... Roadhog would just be on the outskirts of Junker society or something

[spare fox]

I think he'd still be best friends with Junkrat, but in the end just be on his solar farm, crack open a beer, and enjoy the peace and quiet
and then there's the sound of the crowd going wild in the arena in the distance

"finally, peace and quiet"

[wise grotto]

Yea
I think Roadhog would ultimately kinda just retire as long as he knew Junkrat was safe

[shrewd pivot]

Idk i prefer a dynamic duo of Junkrat and Roadhog, splitting them up forever seems less entertaining to watch imo

[spare fox]

getting occasional visits from Ana lol jk

[wise grotto]

Honestly he might

[brittle sky]

Ana likes her big boys

[spare fox]

I get it, but it's also about coming full circle. Junkrat would make interesting dynamics in Overwatch too, and Roadhog is fullfilled because he did his job and got what he wanted

maybe a little bit of redemption because he protected junkrat long enough so that he could one day do some good in the world after all the bad, idk

[shrewd pivot]

Idk I will be honest I always took Junkrat’s enthusiasm for being adopted by ana, joining overwatch, etc, as a goofy joke of junkrat just wanting to feel like he belongs. (There's jokes about junkrat thinking the queen has a crush on him this season lol.)

Not that he WOULD actually join overwatch one day

[spare fox]

I think he would, he'd still be silly and chaotic but also have good influences too
junkrat is a product of his society, 100% literally, he is basically the same age (just a little older) as his world going to shit

[shrewd pivot]

Junkrat was never actually "just a goofy silly chaotic guy" to me, atleast not in ow1. He genuinely was insidious in how he enjoyed violence in ow1. I think softening that aspect takes away from the fun of watching Junkrat fail as a Wile E. Coyote type humor.

[spare fox]

junkrat is literally the end result of roadhog's/ALF's destruction, getting him to the place where he could put his genius and inventiveness and enthusiasm to good would be a full circle, imo

[spare fox]

the difference between the two, though, is one is a static character, the other more dynamic with room for more story. OW1 junkrat was fun, don't get me wrong, but OW2 junkrat has a better character

[wise grotto]

Ow2 wants clearly to expand on jr
Ow1 wanted funny bomb guy

[spare fox]

yeah look at Michael Chu's description of him (OW1) Junkrat, he's crazy! His hair is on fire!

[shrewd pivot]

Fair, but it's not like an insidious Junkrat couldn't change over time while still keeping that grit. Roadhog is static by that logic atm.

Reaper to me is iconic for the fact Reaper is consistently as an edgelord bad guy, yeah Reyes became Reaper which isn't static,but Reaper as is shouldn't suddenly become a good guy imo

[spare fox]

Reaper is an edgelord as an act... not just to fool everyone but it's mostly to fool himself, too. To distract from the pain - internal as well as external

[shrewd pivot]

Ig it stems from that i dislike how ow1 design to ow2 design "cleaned up" Junkrat, I think it weakens his scrappy grungy junkrat hero identity

[spare fox]

I disagree, I think he's more "scrappy" now, more of a character you can root for, you know?

[shrewd pivot]

Well for sure, but that "insideous edgelord villain" of Reaper stays consistant like the violence enjoyer ow1 junkrat was,

but an iconic villain like Reaper isn't something I want softened ever.

[spare fox]

I don't think they'll soften reaper ever, even if -big IF- he gets redemption

[shrewd pivot]

Pardon my wording. I don't mean scrappy like a scrappy adventurer, i mean scrap-y like made of junk and scrap, disheveled, cobbled together and misfit, not 'good guy scrappy go lucky'. Atleast in ow1, Junkrat wasn't a character you would actually root for lol you were meant to enjoy watching him fail in a Wile E Coyote way.

Junkrat shouldn't ever actually be a "scrappy adventurer good guy!" That's more Venture's vibe or something.

I enjoy when overwatch has grit, just as much as when it has goof. And ow1 junkrat had way more grit.

I personally think a lot of ow2 visual designs actually removed a lot of that fun grundge/grit, the only designs I genuinely think were upgrades were ow2 Symmetra (fit Indian clothing better, showcased her character growth via acceptance of asymmetry) and like... ow2 Lúcio (better hair design)

[shrewd pivot]

Like idk this guy feels more interesting, his design isn't cleaned up, his hair is on fire and also balding from radiation poisoning, his pants torn from explosions or harsh enviorment, and you can't quite tell if he has black nail polish, or some health condition. This junkrat feels unhinged, cartoon character

This guy is all patched up, cleaned up, balding not apparent anymore. And the pants have a less interesting silhouette, definitely black nail polish. This junkrat feels toned down, made more conventionally attractive and for what? Lol

[spare fox]

I guess, I just like the updated design better

idk what you mean by toned down and more conventionally attractive tho, I'd say about the same but the second is more colorful and interesting to look at

and he's still dirty, just dirty in different spots. he's got the outline from where he was wearing the goggles and all

[edgy meadow]

cleaned up is true, more conventionally attractive i genuinely dont see

i think the main advantage of the new design is that it fixes the problem of the old design where junkrat practically blends into the background of 90% of maps due to his muted color pallete

[shrewd pivot]

This is 'not even a face a mother could love', goofy cartoon

[edgy meadow]

also does a better job of illustration is technical ability with more refined prostethics and equipment

[spare fox]

OW2 design also makes him look more like an engineer/intentor rather than just some guy out in the wilds, too

[shrewd pivot]

This styles his hair in such a way that looks more conventionally attractive, his goggles cover his 5head and his balding isn't apparent anymore, looks like a guy more so than goofy cartoon like ow1 did

[edgy meadow]

his face is literally unchanged they just changed the hairstyle

in fact he has very appereant eyebags which make him look more unhinged/unattractice

[shrewd pivot]

I am talking about how they styled him, not his face model changing

[spare fox]

the goggles work for the inventor/engineer archetype

idk man you're not gonna convince me the OW1 design was better. I still like it but I like OW2 better for him

[shrewd pivot]

I agree lol

When i think of junkrat i think: junktire, explosions, fire/soot/dirt, scrap, Wile E Coyote cartoon villain.

In ow2 They took away his cartoony scientist hair, placed some cool looking goggles to cover his cartoony 5 head, and make his clothes less torn up and face less full of soot.

[edgy meadow]

they made his junktire more attention seeking and his scraps more solid and stand out more

it shifted the emphasis on the design

not made him conventionally attractive or contradict his personallity

thats where i disagree

[shrewd pivot]

He has less soot on the face in ow2 which makes his eyebags darker in ow2, if you know anything about Tumblr 'sexymen' ppl go wild for eyebags or heavy eye makeup lol

I would still argue ow1 looks more cartoonishly unattractive (which is a good thing, it fits his character) than ow2 design which looks more so cleaned up

[spare fox]

I think you're lookign too much into it... eyebags and dirt are gonna change over the course of 2 years. It's not that deep.
whether it's attractive or not is subjective and really, I don't really care one way or the other in that regard

[shrewd pivot]

Well I do, I like character design and visual story telling lol

[spare fox]

I like the pants, more distinct weapons/prosthetc, addition of color, and the goggles more on OW2 design for him

[shrewd pivot]

I like when overwatch hero designs feel lived in, the ow art book explained Project Titan felt too pristine "toy like" so they intentionally added grit and smudge and dirt to ow1 designs. That grit is what made ow1 designs stand out imo!

It's def a different art direction now a days

[spare fox]

but yeah, my predictions with a few confirmed details:
S2: Talon success, Helix hero to OW
S3: OW makes progress in Tokyo, Hashimoto weakened, but not defeated. Mizuki to OW, Kiriko and Hanzo stay w yokai to continue to fight the Hashimoto. New Hashimoto hero (possibly with Talon)
S4: Junker disaster. Mauga is an idiot, JQ gets mad, WB and Roadhog stay in Junkertown w Queen, Junkrat to Overwatch. New Meka hero (DMon)

[weak oak]

It's insane that Tracer hears a ringing in her head but doesn't wanna make sense of it because she's trying to stay sane after seeing how Sigma is.

[brittle sky]

I think the only part I'm skeptical of would be people going to the big factions. Like maybe setting up appliances for a big hodown in season 6, but I would be surprised if it's active recruitment.

And mauga being an idiot on accident, that's also unlikely.

[spare fox]

I want to clarify, I don't think idiot =/= stupid

idiot = he screws the F up

not that he isn't smart

[brittle sky]

He'll either put in a good pitch and sway jq to do what she already wanted to do, do a good pitch and she responds negatively because she's mercurial, or do a bad pitch to set off the queen on purpose.

[primal yoke]

What happened with the reapers mind to make him join talon after killing the leader to supposedly stop talon

[spare fox]

we don't really know that story yet

[primal yoke]

Ok, maybe it was something with what Moria did to him tho that made him constantly suffer probably messed with his brain too

Gave him the Deadpool insanity

Except he doesn’t have super cancer or 4th wall breaking abilities

[clear plover]

Can someone help me understand what Mizuki's deal is? Isnt he supposed to be Hashimoto? Why is he on the 'overwatch' side in overwatch vs Talon? And why does he have friendly interactions with Kiriko?

[neon sonnet]

BASICALLy the hashimoto sent him on a mission to infiltrate the yokai, he did it and now he may have gotten just a tad bit too close with the members of the yoka ias he is described to be 'caught between loyalties' , basically stuck between his clan duties and protecting his new friends. As overawtch art depicts him being on overwatches side it can be presumed that he is more devoted towards the yokai! Hope that explains it . . . somewhat decently

[brittle sky]

Some combination of frustration with blackwatch's failures and chronic pain and anger from his condition left him susceptible to being radicalized by doomfist into thinking the only way to change the world would be using talon as a vehicle of power. The details are still fuzzy, and where his turn falls on the timeline of overwatch's undoing isn't entirely clear

[brittle sky]

He's notably also less of a hashimoto die hard and more the orphan of a family deeply in debt to the hashimoto, then was sent to infiltrate yokai and yeah is now splitting his loyalties and really primed to turn on the hashimoto.

[peak escarp]

I have a theory that one of the side effects of Moira's treatments is that he has reduced willpower, and is more prone to acting on impulse (blasting Antonio, getting provoked to anger by Sombra during the Sigma mission, etc.)

voice lines indicate that prior to her intervention, Reyes was a careful planner who didn't go off script

[wise grotto]

I mean when your stuck in intense pain at literally all times
You tend to lose some self control

[primal yoke]

Can no one help him tho?

[wise grotto]

They’d have to stop the thing destroying and rebuilding his cells at a constant rate for him to not be in pain
I seriously doubt there’s a cure for it

[primal yoke]

So basically he’s immortal and will be in pain forever and will never be cured and will witness the heat death of the universe

[crisp canyon]

Reaper can be killed

[primal yoke]

How if he’s constantly regenerating

[crisp canyon]

Because if he stops sustaining he will decay entirely, his cells constantly decay not regenerate

[primal yoke]

So he has to eat a lot

[crisp canyon]

More like kill

[primal yoke]

So he gets substance from killing and not eating

[crisp canyon]

Yes

[primal yoke]

And he can’t be cured from that

So he could just die if he chooses to stop killing people?

[crisp canyon]

Not that we know of, we don’t exactly know what Moira did to him to bring him back from the dead

[primal yoke]

Ok

[crisp canyon]

They’ve kinda purposely kept it ambiguous and not told us because I don’t think they’ve written it

[primal yoke]

Infinite lore

[fleet scaffold]

What I really appreciate about OW characters is the mispronounciation of names between them. Mauga being a clear example. While alot of characters say his first name wrong and his last name with the wrong accentuation, it stays true to the characters for them to get it wrong.

It helps that it shows how names between nations is just a hassle alot of the time. And it's cool that the characters themselves just accept how others call them even if not exactly the same way it should be pronounced.

[dense garnet]

Mercy is the only one who pronounces Mauga's name correctly to the point that players make fun of her pronunciation

Echo*

Why did I say Mercy lol

Adhd brain

[primal yoke]

Did they fix Kirk’s lore

Cause ain’t she like 20 and genji and hanzo are in their 40s so how’d they grow up together?

Oops

Kriko

[spark mica]

Im pretty sure they did

[primal yoke]

Alr good

[spark mica]

on a diffrent note

wait i forgot

[primal yoke]

It’ll come back to you

[wise grotto]

He doesn’t get substance from killing he’s just also a very murdery person nowadays where did you hear he needed to kill to survive

His cells are literally destroying and reforming themselves

That energy can also be used to create his shotguns as example

[wise grotto]

They’ve changed that they didn’t grow up together or train together her mother just brought her to the training sessions

[peak escarp]

or compare how Brigitte (a native Swedish speaker) says Fika compared to everyone else

[shut finch]

genji lines about hanzo makes me so confused

did he forgive or not hanzo actions???

[dense garnet]

Genji said in the dragons short that he forgave him lol

[shut finch]

that one where they fight?

the 3d one

i think i watched it but like i was very young so i don remember properly

🥺

[dense garnet]

Yeah that one

Genji doesn't hate Hanzo

[shut finch]

thats good, his new bp skin is very beautiful

from what it means lore wise

hes also beautiful but thats not the point LOL

[viral pilot]

Both are true lol

I'd be down to see more skins like new era genji that show his face

[primal yoke]

What’s hanzo doing now in the lore?

Ever since he found out genji is alive

[spark mica]

Im 110% sure hes a merc

or something of the sort

Most likely in a long journy to forgive himself

[primal yoke]

With him being a merc, couldn’t talon hire him and send him in a mission against overwatch where he has to fight genji hypothetically

[spark mica]

He wouldn't do that

he dislikes Vendetta (Im pretty sure of it)

[primal yoke]

Ok does vendetta know the reaper is Gabriel

[spark mica]

YEP

[sand veldt]

Is there a lore reason Hanzos skins are so ass

[primal yoke]

So he’s cooked when she finds him

[spark mica]

Not really

Cant harm what you cant touch

[primal yoke]

No one likes bow users, they the laughing stocks

Especially when you got gorillas that can talk and super humans

[sand veldt]

Jokes aside

I heard he was even better with a sword than Genji

That true?

[primal yoke]

I would answer but I don’t know

[spark mica]

HE did win that one duel against him that DID cause all of his sorrow

thats why he put down the sword

[primal yoke]

Bro was too good so he retired

[stable arch]

I’m plat 5 in support

[primal yoke]

He’s cannon to the lore

[stable arch]

Who me ?

[primal yoke]

Yes

[primal yoke]

Yes you

[stable arch]

Wait I didn’t give my permission to be in the game wtf

That illegal

[stable arch]

Am I really in the game ?

[primal yoke]

Yes you are plat 5 on support

[stable arch]

That crazy

[spark mica]

Such good lore

this guy must be cannon

[primal yoke]

I heard he carries his team

Hard carries

[spare fox]

guys, please don't shitpost

[primal yoke]

Alr

[frail grove]

If you could have any 1 possible collab skin happen, what would you manifest?

[spare fox]

wrong channel

[spark mica]

Wrong channel

though

[grave saddle]

Overwatch 1 collab

[spark mica]

... ellaborate (On a diffrent channel tho)

[grave saddle]

Wouldn’t even know where lol

[spark mica]

i guess off topic? or the Overwatch thing

[dense garnet]

My Little Pony

[silver ledge]

You guys think that the focus on lore will be successful? I'm so happy they're doing that and i eat up everything they serve. But I'm thinking that the "slideshow" lore drops don't really have a big potential to rein in new players into the lore side of Overwatch and ultimately the resources given to the teams working on the lore will be influenced by how many players engage with the lore. I don't know, what do you guys think about that, you guys think that the lore focus will be a success?

Also are yall excited for when Mauga arrives in Junkertown and we get to see more of Wreckin Ball? I hope the Junkers will join Talon and we will see Ball go up against Winston or something

[opaque tundra]

I will say that the current pacing and quantity over quality is a bit unsustainable but as for if the community will continue to engage with the lore itself, it’s hard to say

It really depends on how the storyline plays out

[sand veldt]

I just wanna see more of hazard

Well

I wanna see a few people more lore wise

Hazard, Emre, Domina, Mizuki

[spare fox]

I think the dive intot the story is EXACTLY what Overwatch needs as a franchise

it brings player engangement to a whole nother level

[dark pine]

Was doomfist just washed because of a lack of fighting recently?

How did Vendetta beat him 1v1?

[edgy meadow]

ego

did not respect vendetta as a skilled warrior

when her being a skilled warrior is how she got her career

he treated her with disrespect and just threw the fight

not cause he's weak

[dark pine]

How strong is Vendetta? How did she get so strong?

Is her sword made out of a special material? Does she have any magic powers?

[edgy meadow]

theyre pretty much hinting that we get a big cinematic every season, but they cant just produce those on a weekly basis

they never prouced those on a weekly basis even during ow1 days

the fact theyre doing WEEKLY stories to begin with is already amazing

if people dont care then they dont care

but evidently people do care

if people just want hype moments and aura we'll get something every season

[edgy meadow]

she's a champion of the colloseum which is the biggest professional fighting event in the world, as its hinted, and in her release trailer she's seen slaying a mech on a scale as big as that old ow2 announcement cinematic

and she basically got strong by just training, bc fighting was her only chance of getting anywhere after she lost everything

[edgy meadow]

her sword is made out of hardlight, and afawk its custom made

thats about it, shes just really strong otherwise

[dark pine]

Is this some kind of mary sue?

She gets introduced into the game and within a couple weeks beats the bad guy the overwatch team has been hunting for 10 years?

Something seems weird

Maybe this is just the overwatch team's way of making a doomfist rework you think?

[edgy meadow]

overwatch beat doomfist in the past, he just escaped

he's just been hiding since

[dark pine]

I forgot didnt he win 1v3 vs genji tracer winston

or did they win that

he was giving them a run for their money at least

[edgy meadow]

people treat doomfist like he's some unbeatable demigod when he's just a good warrior with a really good weapon

vendetta is recent so the whiplash is valid, but i think doomfist losing out of sheer ego is valid writing

[dark pine]

He's not unbeatable but its just weird that this newcomer somehow beat the big talon boss 1st try

[edgy meadow]

doomfist always had a respect for overwatch and its members

but he just saw vendetta as a child

and so when she proved to be competent he was not ready

[dark pine]

anything else in universe made of hardlight?

[edgy meadow]

hardlight is the material used for much of Vishkar's technology

[dark pine]

I have like 4 years of ow lore to catch up to

i was playing from 2016-2021 lol

[edgy meadow]

fair

[dark pine]

so most of this stuff is new to me

[edgy meadow]

obviously the story slowed down a bit between 2021 to 2023 but its been picking up pace

[dark pine]

maybe im just biased because i was a doomfist main

[dark pine]

i swear nothing happened when i started playing ow2

[edgy meadow]

i will say, i think criticising that vendetta was a bit too recent of an addition for this move is valid, she could have been released earlier in 2025

but

i think the way doomfist losing the fight is presented is very well thought out

it wasnt framed as weakness from doom, or vendetta being overpowered

[dark pine]

doomfist didnt have any ult charge 💔

[edgy meadow]

doom just did not take this seriously

hell we literally start the scene with doom saying he doesnt even want to talk about vendetta as a threat to talon

only for it to fire back in his face

[dark pine]

do you really think this is their excuse to rework doomfist?

i mean they might have needed an excuse for him to lose his arm

[edgy meadow]

i dont think this is an excuse to do anything of that sort

[dark pine]

so he had to lose a fight against someone

[wise grotto]

I genuinely don’t think he’s getting a rework

[edgy meadow]

i highly doubt theyre reworking doom again

ye

[wise grotto]

If anybody is it’s sombra rn

[edgy meadow]

they mentioned some of the older chars are getting reworked but doomfist was never mentioned among them

[wise grotto]

And there is def more heroes
Sombras the main one who@we expect

[edgy meadow]

granted, its possible, i just doubt it

[dark pine]

i was hoping he lost his arm then he gets his old one back and they rework him back into a dps

[wise grotto]

Reaper is def not on the chopping block

[edgy meadow]

i think they mentioned mercy and weaver in a recent interview

as well as sombra, obviously

[wise grotto]

Mercy and weaver just had perks added to base kit

There’s no way they rework mercy

[dark pine]

whats the current storyline? Talon got taken over and now what they are at war with ow again?

[silver ledge]

they wouldnt do that do the mercy mains, they'd riot lol

[wise grotto]

Last time they tried the mercy mains got really pissed and it was a super minor rework to 1 ability

[edgy meadow]

vendetta is basically pushing talon to be a much more aggressive organization

historically its been a secret political player that only occassionally made active plays, but vendetta is basically using her new position to go on a full offense

shes bombing the ow headquarters and starting to expand to either make new allies or force compliance

she has the cooperation of vishkar, shes reaching out to the junkers, and are planning a major invasion into Grand Mesa, and Ex-overwatch HQ thats been taken over by Helix Operatives

in cooperation with Deadlock

the latter of which seems like its hinted to be the next major event in the storyline

since the invasion into grand mesa has been teasted in a stadium map months ago

except now we know deadlock is mostly a distraction and not the real benefactors

[edgy meadow]

they havent done that yet tho

[wise grotto]

Yea but that’s the announcement thing i didn’t hear about much else yet

[crisp canyon]

Adding a new ability is a rework

[wise grotto]

Ah
Actually they might then

I know sombras is supposed to be a proper rework

Giving her flash heal wouldn’t count since it’s been a perk for her

And they didn’t count it when they added other perks to base kit

[crisp canyon]

It’s not her base kit so technically yes it is a rework no longer an optional choice to add to her kit

[wise grotto]

So I wonder what they’ll do for another ability
Maybe rework her blaster?

[wise grotto]

If they call it that I’m just gonna ignore it being considered a rework (especially cause that isn’t season 3 the rework season)

[crisp canyon]

When a change to a kit or character is made it’s a rework

Changing numbers of what an ability does or can do is buff/nerf

[wise grotto]

Sombras made sense csuse it changed her significantly
Balls was a rework cause at the minimum it changed more then 1 part to make him more flexible in situations
Just adding flash heal wouodnt change anything in how mercy functions like evrry other one

And also
It isn’t happening during the season they’ve said reworks are coming

And actively talked about it just as adding a perk to base kit not as a rework already

[crisp canyon]

It doesn’t have to fundamentally change the character to be a rework, u just listed urself how 2 different things can be a rework this is no different

If I’m not mistaken there is no “rework” season to my knowledge, where they’re gonna drop them all at once that’s just speculation, they could spread multiple reworks out this year

[wise grotto]

when ow does something
They usually call it that
They’ve called this just adding a perk to base kit not a rework
We have 0 reason to think this is what the “rework” would be

[crisp canyon]

And they could change more later in it’s still a rework

[dark pine]

ngl i think some perks in stadium should just straight up be part of the character's kit by default

[wise grotto]

The more things they change are the actual rework then not the perk being base kit

[crisp canyon]

It’s not in her base kit, so they are adding an ability to her base kit, making her base kit different which is a rework

[crisp canyon]

True

[spare fox]

but back to the lore!

[wise grotto]

I wanna see what Moira would do if captured

[spare fox]

hmm

I don't really think she's the "capturable" type, you know?

she kinda skirts around legality like that

sure she's deplorable, but

[wise grotto]

I mean yea but I do want to see what would happen if ow captured her
She does work for a terrorist organization

[spare fox]

hm, but I think her connections at Oasis might pull some strings for her maybe

idk

[peak escarp]

not sure where people got the idea that Reyes was a bad/crooked cop

he seemed pretty dedicated to his job before his turn

[primal yoke]

I just learned I spelt kirikos name wrong earlier when I “corrected” myself and I am sorry

[spark mica]

Wasn't he? Reyes had an incredible reccord before he went into blackwatch

[left granite]

One interaction between Baptiste and Sojourn mentions Talon's actions and does some of the entire Overwatch crew not know Baptiste was former Talon?

[peak escarp]

they do not

Cassidy knows and is helping him keep the secret

[robust pelican]

I really like ramattra's writing. He's such a walking contradiction it feels so human. He hates humans for abusing innocent omnics, but then does the same to innocent humans. He bemoans the arrogance and flaws of humans, but doesnt acknowledge that he and every omnic is perfectly capable of doing the exact same thing.
I think ramattra's story is a tragedy, because if he does get rid of all humans to ensure omnic safety, the nature of sapience means that omnics will eventually start wars at some point, and he will have to stifle them by being a tyrant or let the limited population slowly dwindle

Either way, the only solution is to create a way for more omnics to be created

[viral pilot]

More omnics can be created but they won't be sentient, right?

[tall briar]

yes, because these are only sentient because of the awakening

this also means that, since they can’t reproduce, they are literally a dying species, and when humans kill them they are just bringing them even close extinction.

[robust pelican]

As far as i know, yes

[robust pelican]

It's really easy to understand why ramattra is doing this

[viral pilot]

Yeah I like a good anti villain

So is it possible then for a new awakening? Aurora sacrificed themself to do it but I don't really understand the explanation of that, if it's stated

I guess it goes into a more science / religion kinda thing which I don't imagine they'll go into lol

[tall briar]

I mean, the way I understand it—I could very well be wrong—Aurora just sacrified herself to spread her sentience to all of the omnics, and I see no reason why an omnic could not just do the same to create more sentient omnics. The only issue I can forsee with that is that we need to think about whether this ‘sentience’ is limited, or it—sort of—grows once you have it.

[acoustic ice]

why does chernobog want emre to work in talon?

[robust pelican]

Chernobog is the super AI dedicated to world peace right?

So if that's the case, maybe infiltration by being talon's best agent

[robust pelican]

A good story beat would have zenyatta become the next aurora after a new generation of omnics are manufactured

Maybe sacrificing himself, which becomes like symbolism for the great cost of Ramattra's endeavours

[wise grotto]

I don’t think it would be a great story beat
If anything it would question the morality of just being able to make more generations of omnic at the cost of just 1 omnic
If thag was possible rammattras whole ideology would kinda become more flawed because of how much he did just to try and essentially “take” the omnic race into hiding

[nocturne flint]

Do yall think Widow will start getting her memories or feelings back?

[digital linden]

i think so

being out of talon she no longer has access to the steady flow of drugs that moira gives her etc which ig maintains her emotion suppression

also i think she never lost her memories. she was just conditioned

[tidal quest]

Who knows that reaper is Reyes?

[spare fox]

atp everyone on the roster who knew reyes

[viral pilot]

omg I just discovered this voiceline between sigma and tracer

https://youtu.be/CEOBUPLKvPU?si=_VCcFk5DtKuEO-0a

[brittle sky]

I think ram is very much written as having deep flaws, though I think you're perhaps missing the balance.
He does not seem interested in wiping out humans, though he seems to expect humans will wipe out themselves and does not believe omnics will be safe until they do.
He has definitely taken actions that are heedless of their danger to humans (and even fellow omnics), but to say that makes them the same as the systemic violence and exploitation human power structures wreak on omnics is a pretty strong stretch.
He has his blind spots and his hypocrisies, 100%. But I think we get a less interesting read on his arc if we think his character reduces to a "reverse bigot" or he equates to being "just as bad" as the system he opposes, especially given the real world figures he echoes.

[viral pilot]

Tracer doesn't deny hearing the music that sigma hears

[brittle sky]

Nah. That's just going off in game interactions which are hypothetical. Best we can tell only ana, soldier, and talon figures know.

[spare fox]

without getting into my tinfoil hat theories about Sigma, yes! It's a phenomenon that is believed to exist in the universe, perhaps between time and existence (quantum physics stuff) - basically the "universe" makes sounds that sound like music

Both Sigma and Tracer hear the music because they have interacted with quantum planes or places due to their respective accidents

Fun fact: Tracer's recall sound is actually a reversed song that is hyper-sped up

[viral pilot]

I love that! Can't believe I never knew this til now

Though it's a bit eerie knowing she may or not be denying it so she doesn't go insane

[spare fox]

she was very distressed when she was lost to time

[viral pilot]

Or maybe she just can't focus on the melody because of ADHD 😅

[spare fox]

nah, being lost to time really messed with her and she'd rather not think about it

[brittle sky]

I think there's definitely a read where she's denying something she's hearing, but given tracer's voice acting it also very much sounds like she just has tinnitus, thinks that's what sig's talking about, then awkwardly shifts the conversation away from him saying crazy talk when he clarifies he means the melody.

Again, you can read that as a deflection if you want, but I'm not sure she'd admit to the ringing in her ears if she was looking to deflect the whole time.

[spare fox]

that's fair

[viral pilot]

Okay but that would be a dope story where tracer can tap into sigma's powers

WHAT IS THAT MELODY?

[shrewd pivot]

Notably, the melody (and Sigma's hyperspheres) is a reference to 'sacred geometry' media/mysticism for Sigma, so it seems the human mind can't comprehend whatever Sigma saw, so the human brain interprets the 'geometries' of the universe as music (music is math.)

Sort of a spin on "forbidden eldritch knowledge that drives mortals mad" + "sacred geometry music" tropes for Sigma

[pastel stirrup]

i'd like to think it's a mixture of both
like that she always assumed it was tinnitus without listening to it closely or trying to 'make out the rlly faint melody' until this interaction

[brittle sky]

there is a read for that too.

I'm just honestly not sure if tracer's character really has the scaffolding to pull off a 'protagonistic character with the ability to look beyond the veil', and it's not even like sigma is a truly antagonistic person in that role.

[viral pilot]

That's true

[pastel stirrup]

why not

[shrewd pivot]

Also, I hope Ramattra (when he returns) doesn't devolve into a pure anti-villain (someone who thinks they are the hero but is only doing harmful things)

I hope Ramattra doesn't radicalize into a humanity-extinction terminator or anything (i think it's a really cheap way to portray freedom fighters as becoming just as genocidal as thier oppressors), I rather enjoy his "stopping humanity from poaching awakened omnics, but not out to directly cause humans extinction himself"

His line with Vendetta portrays his whole "suffer asi have" as "watch in dismay as your people squabble with eachother into ruin" which is cold af for an antagonist.

I prefer Ramattra's story to be an anti war story that tells this ideal through tragedy, that due to humanity's neglect Ramattra was forced to make impossible decisions to try and stop global awakened omnic extinction. Yet, Ramattra is willing to bear every consequence, willing to be the monster and martyr, if it means his people can have a future free from humanity's oppression. Ramattra seems to value organic life as seen with Bastion and Ganymede, even willing to accept human support as seen with Baptiste. Ramattra's beef is with humanity's oppression, not organic life existing.

Also, I hope Ramattra isn't planning to build a spaceship to leave earth to solve the human oppression of omnics issue, lol that would be a narrative cop out for omnic-human unity. Omnics shouldn't need to live on a space ship or mars or the moon to be safe from human poachers imo, bc that doesn't address the issues of humanity poaching awakened omnics in the first place, and reads as a bleak future where giving up hope is the answer. #HaveHopeOverwatchOptumisticFuture would somehow secure Zenyatta's goal of human omnic unity somehow. Idk how exactly, but maybe like in a way omnics could back up thier minds into servers so only thier remote controlled bodies get harmed, and they don't actually die or something? Idk.

[viral pilot]

Ramattra: "We're going to space, brothers. The moon is taken by monkeys and Mars has a bunch of racists so probably Saturn idk"

[spare fox]

It would be difficult for her, that's for sure. That might make it interesting. She does NOT want to be stuck in time for very long ever again, but she might have to in order to save somebody? I see that happening

[brittle sky]

I think there are more interesting ways to reintroduce Ram to the story than him coming back to try to hasten humanity's downfall. Things like omnic characters looking into where he ran off with their fellows' minds (if only there was an omnic detective for that), having to try to convince him to let omnic minds go free even it it means risking mortality again, characters trying to make a sanctuary (a null sector, if you will), trying to heist omnic minds from ram's lair, w/ever.

[spare fox]

kind of a Nightcrawler from Xmen situation

[brittle sky]

I more meant as a character it's... not super well built up for that kind of role? We know she's unstuck in time without her accelerator and plenty of people have done interesting speculations or fan stories about that. But you'd need to pretty radically change her character for her to not just trivialize the experience and weirdness of it.

[spare fox]

maybe her cheeriness and optimism - not saying they're inauthentic - but is what she uses to cling to this world so that she feels an attachment symbolically to this world, not that she will ever forget being lost to time but it can help dull or mask the fear from then

[robust pelican]

Maybe the way i worded it was over zealous, so like what i meant to say was that ramattra doesnt mind killing innocent humans in his quest, even though his goal is to ultimately protect innocents, though that only extends to omnics. I also want to bring up how he criticized Pharah for making assumptions about his stance on Anubis, but yet he himself often makes assumptions himself, like his interactions with Ashe regarding Bob, and Havoc regarding the omnics in the Phreaks

[pastel stirrup]

i think it's only glossed over because it's been so long since the slipstream, and the whole ordeal is generally not a huge point of focus in the story

[robust pelican]

I think he's very human in the fact he is a sum of all his experiences like any one of us, which has led him to see humans so negatively, when the true burden is shared between humans and omnics, which is sapience

[shrewd pivot]

Gosh that would be so tragic, but that would be a very compelling plot moment. 🥺

honestly I would love for overwatch to explore Tracer's experience more, I am surprised overwatch hasn't already. Lena has some very good potential for telling a story that depicts PTSD symptoms and derealization symptoms in a very empathetic and heartfelt way (usually in media it's less personal when depicted, but Tracer as the poster child would allow a real heartfelt focus imo). Tracer seemingly already has a nervous laugh tic, and it must be so scary for her, knowing that she probably isn't even in the same timeline anymore? and what that even /means/ that she will never see her og timeline again, never see her true og parents again, etc. That her world now feels slightly /off/ bc it might not be the same timeline she was originally from. I can see a Mandela effect being really hard for Tracer to deal with, or a memory slip in her being a trigger for anxiety or something :<
And despite it all, Tracer carries hope. That is really powerful imo

[pastel stirrup]

woah, peak

i'd thought of similar stuff before but not the whole 'you might not have even came back to your own timeline' thing

[viral pilot]

I like that

[shrewd pivot]

I get that point, but the notable difference is:

Humans can repopulate

Awakened omnics cannot, and are functionally extinct, will be killed off into extinction without intervention.

(Not excusing Ramattra's crimes of killing innocents and denying subjugated omnics free will to chose ofc) the logic i view it as:

Ramattra views humanity as poachers to a functionally extinct Awakened omnics. Humanity uses force to stop poachers from killing functionally extinct animals, like how White Northern Rhinos are being protected with force atm.

Protecting critically endangered animals/functionally extinct animals from poachers is a moral action.

Ramattra is doing what he thinks is the best way to stop Awakened omnic extinction from humanity's poachers, yet Ramattra notably disagrees with Anubis and thinks Anubis should be deleted (both Anubis and humanity treated omnics like tools). Ramattra seemingly wanted to share earth with organic life, but to him he sees humanity is not interested in sharing this world. So he will let humanity live out it's natural lifespan as a species, bit Ramattra will not save humanity from itself as he had saved omnickind from itself. That's his logic imo

[zealous jacinth]

Yo what do you guys think of the idea to start killing off the playable characters in the story ?

[pastel stirrup]

don't see why not

league did it didn't they

[shrewd pivot]

De:Classified suggests that Tracer might not be in her og timeline iirc. Or atleast, Tracer confirmed multiple timelines do exist in Overwatch

[zealous jacinth]

I mean they'll still be playable but just dead story wise

[zealous jacinth]

Yeaa good point

[pastel stirrup]

does it?
i read her declassified pages but all i remember is reading that she had a dream about being a maid, which is a nod to one of the voice actors' TV roles

idk if it was explicitly confirmed to be an alternate timeline

[shrewd pivot]

I don't believe Doomfist is actually dead atm,

But he's still playable even if presumed dead in canon atm

[zealous jacinth]

Yea he for sure still alive , we didn't see the body fall

[shrewd pivot]

Let me go pull up the text to double check!

[pastel stirrup]

even if it's not confirmed it's still a very cool idea nonethless

[brittle sky]

Sure, he absolutely has his presumptions and blind spots (though I ultimately find the MCU esque 'antagonist sets up a more protagonistic character for a sick dunk' interactions to be some of the weaker writing in the game). But I think if we say he's only a hypocrite we run the risk of dismissing the issues that motivate him, or equivocating his fight against oppression as just the same as oppression, and erego there's no point in changing things. That's always the risk of having the 'antivillain revolutionary' type character - compare various iterations of magneto (who is a major touchestone for Ram and has been written for so long you get plenty of examples of both interesting and nuanced versions and completely inane or misguided versions).

[brittle sky]

I think way more likely is they get around to giving Rein his inevitable quixotic end.

[robust pelican]

I know, and that's why i said his motive is incredibly understandable and also why it's tragic. His real problem is sapience, in other words free will. If humans are gone, omnics can do whatever they want, which includes love but also large scale war, as is natural for a sapient species. It's just like what Zenyatta and Orisa talked about, where orisa asks if evil will ever be extinguished, which zen says that it is unlikely as it is a result of free will

[shrewd pivot]

"Live with honor, die with glory" full circle 😔 🙏

[robust pelican]

Im not saying he's a one note villain/anti villain, i just think he's a very understandable person in a very tough and tragic position

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah I think that would be such an interesting thing to explore tbh. Imagine if Ramattra does indeed free omnickind from humanity's oppression... only for freewill/sapience to cause awakened omnics to war with eachother afterwards, oof.

I would like to think tho, if given the taste of a life truely free from oppression, most awakened omnics would not choose to kill omnics. (As seen with Bastion's short, chosing peace not war). Overwatch is an optumistic hopeful future after all

[brittle sky]

Sure, just worth not emphasizing his contractions so much they cancel out everything else.

Which is not to say you're doing that

[robust pelican]

Nah i get it, i just really think his contractions really expand his character

[brittle sky]

Contradiction*, realize that was my typo first, so really just correcting myself.

[robust pelican]

If he was fully in line with his ideology, it would be interesting, but to see him contradict himself several times is just.. such good writing, the omnics actually do feel awakened, so human

[robust pelican]

I made the same typo lol

[shrewd pivot]

I mean, I personally think making Ramattra a true hypocrite involves Nameless's writing of Nameless having a bias towards Ramattra as a R-7000 and reminding Ramattra to not control omnics as he once had under Anubis' control haha

[robust pelican]

Who's nameless?

[shrewd pivot]

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/media/short-story/ramattra-reflections/

One of the null sector founders, was a very close friend of Ramattra's

[brittle sky]

Wait have you not read ram's short story?

[robust pelican]

But in any case, i do agree it would be interesting to see someone pick at him for being a hypocrite at times

[robust pelican]

I guess not, i only got back into overwatch recently

I saw bits and pieces since before OW2 dropped

[brittle sky]

Fair. One of the better short stories, and yeah, emphasizes a lot of rams motives but also his contradictions and ego.

[robust pelican]

I'll read it tomorrow cause it's pretty late rn, but god i love ramattra

I love the omnics

Zenyatta already seems to mention (unknowingly or not) what ramattra's true problem is

[shrewd pivot]

All it takes is a little gander into the future to see Ramattra's issue tho

Awakened Omnics would have to constantly re-educate every new generation of humanity to teach them NOT to kill awakened omnics. And as we know, no country lasts forever, Numbani probably will not last forever. So imo it would be Awakened omnics asking nicely "please new generation of humanity, do not kill us" which is kind of wild bc you can't kindly just ask an oppressors that is killing your kind globally to stop. Mondatta did this, was killed, and both Zenyatta and Ramattra do not agree with Mondatta's dogmatic pacifist approach.

We don't know why Ramattra didn't give omnics the choice to join the deep sleep, but maybe it was that Ramattra didn't think an omnic fooled into Mondatta's teachings could properly chose, or maybe it was to not alert anti omnic human groups to the location of the servers that held subjugated Awakened omnic minds, etc.

[robust pelican]

Free will harbors good and evil, which omnics can do. The evil could slowly dwindle omnic numbers, but removing free will reduces everyone into husks. It's a tough spot to be in

[robust pelican]

My guess is that he felt it was necessary

The overwatch world already seems to have omnics integrate well into society, but so fresh after the crisis means that omnicphobia is still common enough

Later into the future it would probably get better, but prejudice is a part of free will

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, so imo Ramattra isn't particularly a 'true hypocrite' type (killing innocents to save innocents, therefore bad), it's more so nuance that might hide his true authentic goal of simply wanting to prevent omnic extinction (doing what he thinks is necessary, willing to be the matyr leading figure if it means his people can live freely from humanity's oppression)

[robust pelican]

There'll always be some asshole somewhere, even if it's 1 in a million, which is what ramattra seems to be afraid of understandably, considering omnics are one generation

[robust pelican]

It's tragic that the core themes of overwatch's story that is 'free will' would make his mission pretty much pointless in the end

Which is really sad actually

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah, so Ramattra was forced to stand by and watch awakened omnics go extinct one by one, or FIGHT at the chance he could prevent awakened omnic extinction. And Ramattra seemingly succeeded in preventing awakemed omnic extinction by preserving the subjugated omnic minds.

[robust pelican]

Which constricts their free will. He's like anubis but not really

[shrewd pivot]

I think Ramattra touches on a similar topic seen in other hero stories. Human hubris creating life without regard to what that life might be like. Humanity's negligence, Thoughtless gods, Humanity's hubris in creating Anubis god ai, Mina and her hubris in creating Aurora, etc.

Humanity's negligence put Ramattra into an impossible situation. Notably Ramattra TRIED peace, tried Mondatta's ways. But both Ramattra and Zenyatta realize Dogmatic pacifism will not work.

[robust pelican]

It's a modern greek tragedy

[shrewd pivot]

In a way, yes. Ramattra definitely has a "doomed by the narrative" vibes to his story

[robust pelican]

I actually really respect ramattra for trying to at least slow the rate of omnic extinction, though his methods make everyone his enemies

Overwatch and humans obviously hate him, but his brain snatching would make him hated among the civilian omnic population too

[shrewd pivot]

https://youtu.be/kQ_y0QcorJ8?si=pmDcYCsS4Kv4uCMH

Yeah! Zenyatta brings up these points. What Ramattra has done has left the remaining awakened omnics in a more dangerous situation.

[robust pelican]

I know some people will disagree, but zenyatta sacrificing himself to ascend a new generation of omnics would make a perfect point in the story to highlight what ramattra sacrifices in his journey for omnic kind

[robust pelican]

Isnt this where they meet in king's row, i wonder what i missed in it

[shrewd pivot]

"I wanted to know how to save a world that refuses to be saved" still goes hard af ✍️ 🔥

[wise grotto]

If they could just do that I think it would just trivalize rammattra sacrifices and point of view
At that point if it only took 1 omnics sacrifice for a whole generation of them
I think rammattra would pretty much immediately push towards either doing so himself or setting up a way for it to be easy to do

[shrewd pivot]

Aurora already did this tho, and Mina stated if they had more time there were ways to preserve Aurora AND do the awakening too. Unless it's a very specific situation, Zenyatta wouldn't need to sacrifice himself imo.

And I don't think the awakening could be reverse engineered so soon.

[wise grotto]

Is there even a factory that can make actual omnics left

[peak escarp]

there are still omniums

we don't have a list of all of them, only a few known ones

[shrewd pivot]

An omnium East China Sea that makes Gwishin, seemingly.

And there are maybe some suggestions an unknown omnium exists in the antarctic.

Also the omnium null sector used in the London uprising iirc

Grand Mesa is a repurposed omnium too, right? Edit: it is not, mb!

[wise grotto]

I guess that somewhat begs to question why rammattra wouldn’t wanna try making another generation and find a way to make them sentient unless there isn’t a way to reverse engineer it without Mina at tue minimum

[peak escarp]

there's one in Siberia creating the warbots attacking Russia

Grand Mesa is not an omnium

[shrewd pivot]

I wonder if we will ever get any further plot lines about that one

[peak escarp]

the omnium Ramattra has been using is one in Antarctica that Anubis built himself

or I guess, made the omnics build for him

[shrewd pivot]

Yeah Mei's energy readings in the codex iirc suggested that an omnium might be there

Also the fact the titans had a frost resistant coating or something, Torbjörn mentioned in the codex

[peak escarp]

also the description from Ramattra's short story

[shrewd pivot]

Oh was the omnium used for London uprising all the way in the antarctic??

[peak escarp]

We reached the bottom of the gateway, a metal platform sheathed in ice. I turned to Lanet.```

I activated the platform, and with a jolt, we descended into the frozen darkness, through a shaft of ice.

[shrewd pivot]

Huh. Ty for for reminding me

I need to reread all the lore again 🥀 my memory fails me

[peak escarp]

the Sojourn novel had Sojourn, Morrison and Dr. Liao infiltrate and disable the Detroit omnium

[shrewd pivot]

A description of a new unit possibly hinted at R-7000s in that novel too iirc

[peak escarp]

yes

[viral pilot]

Has it been stated why Widowmaker killed Mondatta, rather why Talon wanted him dead?

[peak escarp]

to cause conflict

[viral pilot]

I see

[robust pelican]

My view is that it would serve as a great sacrifice for ramattra only. While enlightenment is difficult to achieve, and finding an omnic capable of replicating aurora's awakening is even harder, it's no skin of the world's back, but to ramattra it would be devastating, as his lifelong brother is what it took to achieve his goal

[robust pelican]

God this is so good

I always loved zenyatta, he's such a good character

[shrewd pivot]

Ramattra is a rather selfless character so imo... he would do it. If it means omnickind can be free from humanity's oppression, Ramattra would let Zenyatta do that.

You might have missed some flavor text but Ramattra seemingly might see sapience as a curse / Genji notes the null sector units ||near suicidal behavior|| might say something about thier creator...

Ramattra is going thru it. That set up wouldn't be a super super hard choice for Ramattra imo, it would be just further suffering and tragedy.

Besides, Zenyatta kinda deserves a better story than simply being Aurora2.0 imo...

[peak escarp]

null sector units are nonsentient drones, so maybe Ramattra programmed them to fight to the death because he doesn't value them like he values omnics

[robust pelican]

I think he would let zenyatta do it too, but he would really hesitate