What's will be your first/favourite faction?

[dreamy steppe]

is like...

why?

does that suggest poison toads?

[weak laurel]

It's not bound to form is my understanding.

[dreamy steppe]

which we don't seem to have a form or culture trait for, so presumably it's bout affinity

but then poison elves why?

like, a toad giving a poison cup and being impressed by you being able to just take it

makes sense in the context of toads being toxic

and toxic resistant due to that

but as a nature affinity thing

like, why should I be good at toxins because Tome of Beasts Barb and Good Settlers?

[weak laurel]

They represent in part a preoccupation with nature-y stuff broadly I guess.

[wide halo]

I gather that some of the factors that go into events do involve variables based on the free cities you've come across, so it could indeed be tied to them being toads

Could be something along the lines of: IF form = toads, THEN offer poison chalice

[warm quiver]

Sure the tomes and affinities are broad, but it does suggest some lore for toads either way.

[dreamy steppe]

yes, but it's pigeonholing either the affinity or the form, and either way, it's going against both the concept of "total freedom" that they've sacked flavor text for, and doing it in the single most annoying way

because it's entirely possible that a player that doesn't read the diary never sees the event

[warm quiver]

What's going to be weird is when your own toads get sick from it.

[dreamy steppe]

oh yeah then there's that

they also confirmed there's no form or stat related results

[warm quiver]

At least I assume your form won't have a single factor in events.

[dreamy steppe]

confirmed on the forums

[weak laurel]

I don't get the problem. Some toad people have a culture of imbibing tough-to-digest drinks and others don't.

[wide halo]

somehow I still remember all those tequila slammers I had in uni

[dreamy steppe]

and what happens when the toad offering you the drink is the free city that spawns with your faction?

after all

it's an affinity thing

because form has no effect

[novel vortex]

From the way I read it, those toads got sick from it. They're impressed that you showed no ill effects

[dreamy steppe]

yes

[warm quiver]

Oh okay.

[dreamy steppe]

again, it's an affinity thing

[weak laurel]

Maybe affinity events don't trigger when it's an identical "race" to your own? We don't know that yet I think.

[dreamy steppe]

but, again, why are you good at poisons because you are Good Settlers and use the Tome of Beasts?

[novel vortex]

What would you tie those kinds of chance effects to if not affinity?

[dreamy steppe]

it's not that there's chance effects tied to affinity that annoys me

it's the way those chance effects create exactly what they said they dropped flavor text to avoid

and then also pigeonhole the affinity at the same time

[warm quiver]

Well plot holes or not, what I get from this is that toads are extremely heavy drinkers, and might be common ground for dwarves.

[weak laurel]

You don't see how a broad knowledge of animals and the land might translate to knowledge of poisons? It doesn't seem like the huge stretch you're making it out to be.

[warm quiver]

Or humans. Or anyone really.

[dreamy steppe]

poison is genuinely a very specialized bit of knowledge

[warm quiver]

It could also be my lore of why these toads are mystics or dark, they had some crazy dreams after drinking their fabled poison booze.

[weak laurel]

That doesn't detract from my argument at all. A biologist is more likely to know more about poisons than an architect or engineer.

[wide halo]

I know everyday people who know what mushrooms are edible, which will make you ill, and which will have you talking to god. It's not a stretch to imagine a nature-inspired wizard having knowledge far beyond that

[dreamy steppe]

Knowing farming and wolves and deer does not imply knowing poisons

[dreamy steppe]

My little brother loves picking mushrooms, has no clue what bugs are poison

[warm quiver]

You still might not know with just those tomes, your chances increase with your affinity.

[weak laurel]

Having intimate knowledge of farming would make you more likely to know about plants than others.

[wide halo]

my point is that if these are skills that someone could pick up as a hobby, someone who has dedicated their life to magical studies of the natural world will have knowledge that massively outstrips a hobbyist forager

[warm quiver]

And yet, even with the right poison tome if there is such a thing, you might still fail...

[weak laurel]

And hunting would bring you into contact with venomous animals and such more often and their associate lore.

[dreamy steppe]

If you farm wheat, you need to know, wheat, and what affects wheat, you don't need to know maple trees

[warm quiver]

But you're a wizard, a sponge for knowledge. It's your job to make those sorts of connections between wheat and maple trees.

[weak laurel]

That's silly. Of course as a farmer you will get adjacent nature knowledge compared to people with other preoccupations or who live in urban environments.

You're more likely to be familiar with common folk-cures and such if you're constantly exposed to things in the wild, or preoccupied with living things and their associate dangers.

[dreamy steppe]

Ok, Imma be frank, Maple trees don't even grow well where wheat does, if you farm wheat, it is actively pointless to know about maple trees

[weak laurel]

You're deliberately using a narrow example as a strawman

[dreamy steppe]

"Nature" is not one giant mass of undifferentiated information

and knowing about one part of it

[weak laurel]

No one is saying that. You're strawmanning like crazy here.

[dreamy steppe]

dude

[weak laurel]

You absolutely are, lol.

[dreamy steppe]

you have multiple times said "if you know about this segment, of course you know more about this other unrelated segment"

[weak laurel]

No, I didn't. You're strawmanning. Maybe because of your prejudice against farmers you don't know about straw enough. (I joke)

[dreamy steppe]

"if you farm, of course you know a bunch of stuff unrelated to farming" "if you hunt, of course you know about poisonous creatures"

[dreamy steppe]

here

[dreamy steppe]

and here

and both are wrong

a Herpteologist is not an Entomologist

[weak laurel]

Don't use quotation marks unless you're directly quoting. It's intellectually dishonest.

[dreamy steppe]

and both are more likely to know a bunch about poison than a farmer

but, notably, not the SAME poisons

[weak laurel]

You're still strawmanning. I didn't say a Herpteologist is an Entomologist. I don't think you're able to really argue in good faith here.

It seems like a reflex with you.

It's really incredible.

[novel vortex]

I see both points here. Just because you know a lot about farming doesn’t mean you’ll know a lot about hunting large reptiles. But you are more likely to know something about them than the astronomer who sits in his tower pondering the stars.

Affinity isn’t a perfect system. But instead of complaining about it, would you be able to propose an alternative statistic that could be applied to this random check?

Because I don’t see any viable alternatives

[dreamy steppe]

I don't like that this check exists in this context

because it creates exactly what they've said they dropped flavor text to avoid creating

in a way that is WORSE than flavor text

[novel vortex]

Beyond getting rid of that system entirely and replacing it with a pass/fail based on specific tomes you have, which seems much more unworkable

[rose saffron]

my brain right now looking at this argument is just going 'huh I never thought of this as an issue and it still doesn't feel like it is one'

It feels like nitpicking

It expects a level of granularity that the system is not capable of.

[novel vortex]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what is it you are thinking they are trying to avoid by dropping flavor text that this is doing?

[rose saffron]

jarring you out of your own fantasy narrative for 'your dudes'

was the reason for dropping the flavor text

[novel vortex]

Still don't see how this really does that, unless your own narrative is oddly specific

[rose saffron]

To be fair

Some people with a lot of specialized knowledge can draw themselves into a box

And I can get how that's jarring and upsetting there

[dreamy steppe]

I take "Good Settlers", which, notably, doesn't include "is good at dealing with poison critters", I get this event, why do I know enough about poison for an antidote attempt?

[slim garnet]

I just assumed that just like the AI using only original form traits the events would too

[rose saffron]

You probably don't. But if you take that, and Fabled Hunters, and you have a Nature Tome...

by that point you've probably got a very broad understanding

because you're also, in addition, a wizard

[novel vortex]

With just that, you don't have enough have enough of a success chance to even make the check. Which, now that I think of it, is probably why they implemented the 50% threshold

[rose saffron]

yeah

[dreamy steppe]

do I really not have enough?

[novel vortex]

I had been wondering why they kept it at a 50% before you can even try it

[rose saffron]

for just that reason

[dreamy steppe]

no seriously, a four strength check on a T1 is what, a 42% chance to affect them?

less?

[rose saffron]

you need 50% to even attempt it

[warm quiver]

Perhaps also to keep the sense of discovery so that you don't immediately know exactly what you need to win big in this particular event.

[dreamy steppe]

...

a T1 has a better than 50% chance to succed a four strength check

four strength is kinda really REALLY easy

[rose saffron]

okay

so my example then was

[dreamy steppe]

we don't know exactly how much affinity you need for that event in particular

[rose saffron]

we do

at least 4

oh wait

no it's at a 70%

[dreamy steppe]

ummm

no

[rose saffron]

no my bad

[dreamy steppe]

it says "a four strength nature check"

not "requires 4 nature"

we don't know precisely how affinities translate into resisting those checks

but it's not going to need a lot for you to see a four strength check option

[rose saffron]

so

we do actually need

The success chance is 50% when the affinity score equals the challenge level
Each affinity point on top will increase the chances of success by 10% (yes, this means guaranteed success is possible)

or, rather, actually know

So

the check given as an example is at 70% chance

you need at least a Score of 4 to attempt this check

and since it's at a 70% chance they have a Nature Affinity of 6

[novel vortex]

Still doesn't give you enough broad knowledge to automatically succeed. Just enough to try. Maybe it failed because the poison was derived from their skin, but you only know antidotes for mushrooms because your mole mushroom farmers. Or maybe it succeeded because the frog's skin is poisonous because they roll around in poisonous mushrooms.

[rose saffron]

^

So the bare minimum to try this poison check is the equivalent of 2 Nature tomes or 1 Nature Tome and 2 Nature Affinity from your Culture + Society Traits

and if you want to do so reliably you need more on top of that

[dreamy steppe]

this particular event maybe

[rose saffron]

It's the only one we really have at the moment

[dreamy steppe]

yes

but it's a template

and as a template

it disturbs me

because it fundamentally does what flavor text used to do

inform us how the world works outside the combat that is our own focus lens

but in a much worse way for exactly the reason they said they were dropping flavor text

is an Amazon Purifier really in it for the worship of flame?

probably not frankly

but that flavor text is still there

an Oathbound Psynumbra might not be in it for suffering for sufferings sake

but that flavor text is still there

[rose saffron]

So far I'm not really seeing your point as following here. I'm not saying your point is invalid, but it's not a connection that I'm making when looking at the same material as you.

[dreamy steppe]

and your Nature Affinity might have nothing to do with poison, but now, well, yes it does

and hey

where in that event

does it say that those toads offering the drink

aren't the free city spawned with your culture?

and therefore, this poison drink thing is, well, your culture?

[rose saffron]

that specific complaint there follows to me

and I get you

That's a concern and I hope the script triggers that the diary says are there to make sure events fire properly would account for that and exclude it

[dreamy steppe]

ah

but there's a problem

[rose saffron]

But, if you have enough of it to meet the threshold to make this check, at least, you have Nature from a sufficiently diverse set of sources that it's a reasonable expectation that it'd be in there

[dreamy steppe]

all the events of that type would have to be excluded

[rose saffron]

I... don't get how you're proceeding from my point to that

[dreamy steppe]

every event that's about some cultural bond sharing thing

[rose saffron]

I'm not saying it's not a valid train of logic but I missed a step here

[dreamy steppe]

defines the culture it originates from

and if the free city spawned from your own culture ever gives you one

it's defining YOUR culture just as much as it is defining their own

and, well, it's not like there's definitely JUST one free city from your culture

[rose saffron]

To be fair, if you want to be generous, it could be a local deviation from the base culture since they aren't part of your starting settlement

It happens

[dreamy steppe]

and now you are jumping through more hoops than flavor text ever required

[rose saffron]

But ideally yeah, that would be excluded

Just a simple

[dreamy steppe]

and now you run into another problem

[rose saffron]

'is this the same race as you, y/n?'

[dreamy steppe]

what happens if you turn on "AI can be my created leaders"

and then run into a Free City of a created faction

and THEY give you this sort of event?

[rose saffron]

That you could expect from giving the AI free reign of something personal

[novel vortex]

Then don’t turn it on?

[dreamy steppe]

what if you want to play out some scenario using multiple leaders of your own creation because their stories are supposed to work like that

[rose saffron]

I believe it's stated that the only free city of your race that exists in the world is the one you are guaranteed to start with

[dreamy steppe]

and you get one of these events?

[novel vortex]

There’s literally no way around AI making choices that you wouldn’t want your leader to make

[dreamy steppe]

true

[rose saffron]

Yeah.

[dreamy steppe]

but there's also hotseat multiplayer

and this isn't about the AI doing it

it's about the event system doing it

and the event system doing something that is exactly why they said they cut flavor text

and every answer any of you have presented, is more hoops than flavor text ever needed

while providing less inspiration than flavor text did

[rose saffron]

I can see how that bothers you

It doesn't bother me, but I can see how it bothers you

[dreamy steppe]

my first two 4 factions will be made because puns

my first two PF factions were made because of interesting contrasts and comparisons in flavor text

Assembly Celestian and Syndicate Synthesis

[keen forge]

Enemy army "Sir enemy army approaching" My Army "Lets Take The Castle!" Enemy army "uhh sir" "what is it soldier?" "The Enemy army is all Succubi" "What!?!" My Army "Hey Guys Let Us In" Enemy Army "Don't Listen Men Hold Your Ground!" "Uhh Sir" "What soldier?" "Our Guards have Been Charmed and already opened the gates" "WHAT!!!I" My Army "Awesome, Lets Have Some Fun!" Enemy Army "This Is Impossible we Haven't even done anything yet!" "Sir!" "WHat is it!?!" "There one right next to you!" "Wha-" The Castle was taken And The Enemy army was Defeated Because they did not know what the "Safe Word" Was.

[cloud halo]

Alright this whole event discussion should probably have been discussed either in the Dev diary Thread or in its own place. Please try to be aware of when your discussions move too far away from the initial subject and consider whether it should be done elsewhere.

[rose saffron]

My bad, Jordi

[solar idol]

Hey there. How many here would love Goblins. My 1st and probably most favourite faction would be Goblinoid either Demonic or Mystics.

[opal rover]

Goblins are great! I always thought the gobbos in Aow3 were kind of cute.

[static tundra]

Goblins! i love Goblins and will probably be the first race I play

[wide halo]

Goblins are adorable and the elven court campaign made me fall in love with them

[solar idol]

I played Heavily Goblin Theocrat (Goblin Crusaders were my favourite unit)

[rose saffron]

Goblins were not my playstyle in previous games but I thought they were good fun

[static tundra]

Goblins are Cute, they are the best gobos

[solar idol]

In AoW 3 you could build wonders with them. The increased population growth with dirt cheap units plus swamp bonuses made them extreamly versitile.
Also the Musquito Darters were the best snipers in the game

I saw in the video the Toads - well that would be really FUN to play as well

[novel vortex]

Thanks to this excellent guide (#aow4-general message) I was able to finish out what I want for my first faction:

Under the leadership of the mighty Foremole, the Deep Dwellers (molekin with underground adaptation and hearty) are ready to spread throughout the underworld, hunting down the terrifying beasts in their way (Fabled Hunters) and founding grand new cities (Adpet Settlers). With the might of their nature magic (Mystic culture, Tome of Roots), they will make the underworld safe for all.

[wide halo]

😄

[wide halo]

Yet another idea: toadkin alchemists, mystic and leaning into astral, nature, and perhaps materium. Mostly traders and diplomats, and their leader is a renowned guildmaster

[brazen pond]

If or when Dracs/Lizards get added as a form in DLC/patches, I am going to take the mighty Gleamon Devours from 3's Triumphant Heroes mod and turn him into a fully fledged leader of his own band of cannibalistic reptilian warriors.

[lusty cloud]

New idea. Surviving lizardman wizard that that infiltrated human kingdom and masquerades as human himself, planning one day to use Nimue's new favored people as means to take revenge on her. His name would be Shak Arn

[brazen pond]

sounds good

[opal rover]

Yes good, I love it!

[grizzled pasture]

Doubles as a ruler that is secretly lizard people, very nice

[golden pollen]

Another idea for gameplay from me in AoW4. XD

Have a race of Feudal dwarves, with culture bonusses of Folk Hero and Unifyers, have the Tome of Beasts, and finally making a female human Wizard King/Queen (or Champion, depends on preference) and name her, Snow White. XD

[brazen pond]

has to be wizard queen to be human or elf

[glad basalt]

The Evil Stepmother is Feudal with Astral and some Shadow, I assume

Tome of Scrying being a must.

[wide halo]

if rat people were mouse people: rodent wizard king in a red bathrobe and a stereotypical wizard's hat, with an army of animate brooms

https://tenor.com/view/mickey-mouse-sorcerers-apprentice-march-broom-gif-8709857

nothing at all could ever go wrong with this plan

[rose saffron]

Tome of Enchantment already has this spell for cities!

It improves Production by a flat +20 but reduces city stability in turn

You use it mainly to get new outposts with poor production going faster

[wide halo]

there's a spell that specifically animates brooms? 😄

that's great

[rose saffron]

Well

Animated tools

A category to which brooms belong

[wide halo]

🤔

that's actually a really cute idea

[rose saffron]

The people are displeased by it though

Hence the city stability penalty

[wide halo]

wizard kings leaving them without much to do?

[rose saffron]

Basically

It's fine when the population is low and you need the extra help, but as it grows?

[wide halo]

ngl it's stuff like this that makes my fanfic brain go brrr

just little magical things that impact the lives of the general population

good stuff

[vague willow]

All the talk of Syrons in lore channel really made me want to try and re-create Syrons. Since we don't seem to have tools to do exactly that, I think I would go with Mystic and lightning focused tomes.

It could be a bunch of Syrons led by a champion, as I presume O'neron went with Meandor and the Archons to save his kin.

Lorewise though, I believe some Syrons could've stayed behind on Athla and act as the last bastion of their race, should the war against the Shadow Demons be lost. Throwing everyone against such danger is a risk and they knew it, so they were left to allow Syrons to continue on in the worst case scenario. Maybe these modern-day, Athlan Syrons would emerge as portals open, looking for their lost kin, changed by influence of Athlan cultures and hiding away in, say, deserts of Kesh, as they were friends of Ke-nan and the Nomads? Maybe even claiming the lost cities of the Azrac Empire on the Ashen Steppe?

Sure, they might not have Forceships anymore, but it's been so many years. Cultures and world changes, and so did the Syrons

[brazen pond]

I think you could defs recreate Syrons with Elfkin form

sadly no way to make everyone bald, though I suppose they picked up the habit of growing their hair during their time in Athla

[vague willow]

Elfkin and pale skin, yeah

[wide halo]

Also really emaciated by the looks of the art

Which we can probably manage

[vague willow]

I wonder if we're gonna get some way to bring something like Giant Warriors

[brazen pond]

warbreed or supergrowth are the closest I can think of so far

[vague willow]

There was some kind of electric transformation, am I right? Think we saw it on Werlac? That'd be cool to see on them too

But yeah Warbreed is probably the closest thing we have

[flat smelt]

The Syrons are less Elflike and more like Gith.

[lusty cloud]

Yeah, they always felt like gith expy to me too.

Especially with all that "psychic monster race as their sworn enemy" thing.

[brazen pond]

bald elves are probably the closest you'll get to them appearance-wise in this game though

[slim garnet]

I think making a gogblin taller has an argument

just to get the crooked / starving look

[lusty cloud]

Nah, emaciated elves do look closer to syrons.

Probably with dark culture, syrons too were fond of black spikey armor.

[quiet berry]

I’ll probably play super-tropey Holy High Human (Tome of Faith/Beacon and the “nice” order stuff instead of tyrant knights etc) for the champion campaign scenario but I can’t wait to play around with the all the other cultures

[warm quiver]

You can make your wizard king a different race than the kingdom they're leading, right?

[rose saffron]

Yep. Only a Wizard King though, not a Champion.

[brazen pond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHySRFmOBfU okay these guys are hilarious, basically Stormcast Orcs (Mantic once again firing shots XD), I think I might try to remake them as well

shame Dark Culture has a hammer shortage, so I might make them Industrious with Tome of Evocation

[lunar zodiac]

A split of , pure or depending on the control we get with our 9 slots - maybe more - I'd sprinkle some in as well.

[smoky fulcrum]

High elves probably for me (generic i know :P), not sure what tomes but i loved elves in every age of wonders game, ill have to look and see though, because feudal has me intrigued to

[rose saffron]

Even 'High Elves' leaves a lot of room for variation

In this game

So you're pretty set

[smoky fulcrum]

Yea that's what has me excited for this game, All the variations of elves i can make, lol honestly though with the tomes and being able to completely change your units mid game or atleast augment them, 2 exact same race builds can end up wildly different wich is amazing

[grizzled pasture]

Yeah, I think I'll definitely be doing "classic" iterations here and there, like High Elves with lightning magic, but for the most part I'll probably just have character concepts or aesthetics I'll be chasing

For example, I've always been a fan of death knight types, and for that I first want to know the Culture/Tome with the (racial) dude with the heaviest-looking set of armour I can find, so probably not my first faction, but might well end up a favorite

[keen forge]

i wonder if you can get Succubi in any race like you could in AOW3 because if so then any race would be viable for me, but i might try Orcs first CUZ DA BOYZ NEED TA GO A STOMPIN! 😄

[static tundra]

Ratuccubi

[novel vortex]

Yeah now I'm wondering if I should hold off making my nature-y mole people for the DLC rather than playing with them first

[ancient shadow]

Underground adaptation dark culture elves with spider mounts is probably going to be my first playthrough.

[rose saffron]

classic

[static tundra]

ah yes, i would say its even more then classic

i think i may try to recreate the Chaos Faction from Heroes of Might and Magic 4

[grizzled pasture]

What'd they have/do?

[static tundra]

so fire as magic

so will have the fire tome

probably going to go dark culture

probably orc people for race, and The Wizard King that looks like this

also nightmare mounts (is a must)

so it's going to be mostly and

[glad basalt]

Ah, going orcs, not bandits.

[static tundra]

yeah its one of the 2

ill also try this faction again with a Dragon Ruler when that comes out

(and yes it will be a black dragon)

[glad basalt]

Of course. Be it Warlock, Asylum or Dungeon, this culture needs dragons above all.

[static tundra]

100%

[glad basalt]

Minotaurs too, if they return.

[static tundra]

god i hope so

love my "Cow"boys

[glad basalt]

Awesome theme, too.

[static tundra]

its my fav one from 4

so this being aow4

why not combo my two favorite strategy series

[glad basalt]

That creepy chorus...amazing.

Though for this faction, my favourite was in 2.

[static tundra]

2 is my 2th place for sure

i think 2 and 4 did it the best IMO

another idea, i am planning for is High culture with ancient wise ones and scions of evil

not sure what race tho...

[glad basalt]

I would go Elf, but it can work with other forms, too.

[static tundra]

yeah Elf may be good will think more about it

then again high cats is kinda funny

[glad basalt]

Haughty, pampered and ruthless?

[grizzled pasture]

Hmmm, Tuatha; red-haired elves dressed in greed, but would they be barbarian culture? 🤔

I've seen an interpretation that the fey are allergic to iron because it represents progress while fey represent nature, sooo.... Yeah, barbarian elves with a bunch of nature stuff?

[static tundra]

swamp is an adaptation ya?

[novel vortex]

Yes - it's called "Water Adaptation," but the description specifically calls out bonuses for swamps. It should be "Wetland Adaptation" in my opinion, because "Water Adaptation" makes me think of sailors.

[static tundra]

i see

actually kind of fits my faction because their ships were pirate ships

[smoky fulcrum]

Not sure how many Race transformations we can have, probably 1 major one and maybe multiple minors ones so if thats the case think ill definitly be doing High elves with Angelic transformation but also pick up some Nature tomes for Tome of beasts and stuff

[rose saffron]

1 Major, multiple Minors

The aesthetics stack insofar as don't affect the same parts of the unit model, in which case the one that was most recently performed takes precedence in terms of displaying

is my understanding

[smoky fulcrum]

Yea i figured something like that

i assume the Major one would over right minor ones no matter what interms of visual

[rose saffron]

Hard to say. The one example we've seen so far was Wightborn (Major Transformation, makes the race undead) with Steelskin (minor transformation, turns race's skin into steel)

And they were visibly Steelskinned

[weak laurel]

They looked awesome. Can't wait to see more mid-late game multi transformation units.

[flat smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doot-doot-skeleton-trumpet-e1m1-gif-25528371

[glad basalt]

All right, I am decided. A new people (partially descended from the old Nomads, partially people whose settlements fell nto ruin ) will enter the Valley of Wonders. Human Barbarians, with Desert Adaptation and Nightmare Steeds. Fabled Hunters for sure and probably Chosen Uniters. Though Adept Settlers is a possibility. Starting with Tome of Beasts and will focus on cavalry and speed as much as possible.

...My 15 year old self would be mortified (obsessed with Elves, that one)

[wet scarab]

sound like Terminators. Gonna name their Wizard King leader Sky Net

[brazen pond]

did the tooltip outright say if wightborn is a major transform? maybe it might be one of those where the visual change is not as significant as other transformations

[weak laurel]

It is major, yes.

Forgot if it was mentioned yet, but looks like it gives life steal (bottom left)

[glad basalt]

Fitting.

[weak laurel]

Here's the screenshot of wightborn being major. Tom hovered his mouse on the top right of the unit description to make this screen show up.

[quiet berry]

I wonder if the visual is just the Wightborn transformation (grey skin rather than the metallic steel skin)?

[lusty cloud]

I think purple eyes and darker skin.

Maybe some "withered" texture.

Hard to say with toadkin.

[haughty cliff]

also a nice confirmation of something we already knew;

major transformation:
minor transformationS:

[opal rover]

Yeah, you'll be able to stack minor transformations on top of each other, which could result in some fun combinations.

[rotund maple]

there's a joke image floating around of an archer with a long list of all the then-known elemental ranged damage enchantments

[wide halo]

If we get wolf people, I am going with high culture and order tomes, perhaps with chaos and materium on the side. RECREATE POWERWOLF

[static tundra]

if wolf people would be a thing id go with industrious and try to remake Gilneas from wow

[rose saffron]

Gilneas is a good pick

[grizzled pasture]

Right now, I'm thinking barbarian elves with a focus on and , maaaaybe a bit of depending how much you have in the way of leeway

Mostly modeled on the Tuatha in Dominions 5

Or rather, their fir bolg minions

But also, High ___ riding nightmares look super sweet, and lots of fire to complete that aesthetic would mean lots of and

Gaaaaawd, there's so much I wanna do

[wet scarab]

If there were wolf folk i would go Mystic with Chaos tomes and make Whywolves. Who insatiable curiosity is only matched by their bloodlust

[tepid rampart]

XD

One of the main issues I have having when thinking of ideas is what the requirements for the tier 4 and 5 tomes will be. I know that I want to build a good aligned necromancy faction and I have a good idea on what culture and society traits I want but I am a bit worried that if I go this path I will need to pick up some of the more frost related shadow tomes to meet the requirements for the later game necromantic tomes when I very specifically don’t want to do the frozen undead horde being a bit to much of a classical trope for my tastes nor does it really fit with my imagined civilisation

[weak laurel]

Yeah I had a similar concern. Having to pick up unwanted tomes to qualify for higher tiers of ones you actually want would be unfortunate.

[languid jungle]

From what I remember, first you need two tomes of the previous lower tier, and tier 5 tomes requires enough of the respective affinity, so it'll be a certain amount of time depending on how much of the affinity you have. Since you should be going into at least half into shadow or order, you should be able to get the ultimate tome for either by the time you are allowed the option :)

[weak laurel]

I think he means he doesn't want to have to take T3 frost in order to have access to T4 undead.

[languid jungle]

Ah, well then luckily you won't have to, you only need two tomes of the previous tiers, so you can go one shadow one order and get the next tier shadow or order tome you desire :)

[weak laurel]

ohhh that's good.

[languid jungle]

[weak laurel]

It will be a longer path to t5 if you split your affinities like that though I guess.

Sorry I think I misunderstood Andrian at first

[tepid rampart]

We have been told that we need to meet certain affinity requirements to get tier 4 and 5 tomes I am just wondering how strict those requirements will be. For example an am currently planning on high culture and two high society traits and starting with the time of souls, will I still be able to reach tier 4 and 5 shadow tomes while avoiding the less necromantic shadow tomes or will by affinity be to low unless either take them or start with dark culture

[weak laurel]

Yeah hopefully a two-way split won't interfere with that but maybe a three-way split would. That seems reasonable to me.

There might be ways other than tomes to get affinity points in-game. Maybe culture (or affinity)-triggered quests etc.

[tepid rampart]

I suspect at least half my tomes will be shadow necromancer tomes but if it is only half of them and I have no culture or traits that are also shadow it could throw a wrench in my plans. I can change to dark culture sure but I would rather not

That is a good point. We did see briefly in the dwarf video that he somehow picked up a single point of order affinity and with all times providing 2 it’s hard to see how that could have happened if there aren’t other ways of gaining it

Tomes not times

Auto correct on the phone is very annoying

[weak laurel]

We also saw that you can temporarily lose affinity via quests (failing the toad drinking ritual) so maybe it's not far-fetched that we can gain affinity permanently by similar means.

[languid jungle]

I think that is very plausible :)

[tepid rampart]

Could change things, makes me wonder if we can delay our time choice otherwise I could see tomes when you have the affinity requirements for a high tier tome but shortly before you get to pick one you take a risk and have your affinity temporarily drop below the requirement when it’s time to pick

Alternatively it is related to how far though the empire tree we have progressed for a single affinity which would be interesting

It could be

Auto is so weird

[weak laurel]

btw did you guys notice the wolf-riding body trait gives the leader specifically a white wolf?

Going hard into nature/wolf riders could be an almost perfect Princess Mononoke faction with giantized boars, wolves, and nature spirits.

[tepid rampart]

I plan to make wood elves at one point but going with spider riders, likely go with a mix of nature and chaos with a heavy focus on archer units

Stay out of the forest, yes I know the forest is expanding what of it

[weak laurel]

The web shooting ability to immobilize might work really well with a shooty core like that!

[tepid rampart]

That and it’s very thematic the web covered trees as you enter the forest

Likely barbarian culture as well feels like it fits well

[weak laurel]

Esp. if their archers or skirmishers get the bonus mount (I don't remember which barb unit gets it...)

[tepid rampart]

All scouts do but not sure about what other units do

Feudal knights would and I suspect that is tier 3 but unsure about all others

[weak laurel]

With the mount body traits I believe it affects your (1) leader, (2) scout, and (3) one other unit from the culture.

[lusty cloud]

I'm pretty sure it is cultural T3 that gets a mount, so berserkers seems like a more likely candidates. Even if cavalry with greataxe is a bit weird.

[weak laurel]

#3 is the most exciting to me.

Giving the scouts a damaging and immobilizing web attack seems really good.

Wolf and spider both have damaging abilities, so they might be the biggest powerups for the scouts.

[tepid rampart]

Might grab the watchers trait to give scouts universal camo feels very worrying to be wondering where those spider riding elves are

[weak laurel]

Is forest-attuned a mind trait? Being able to spread forests via tome of glades AND being able to move in them for - mp seems fun.

[lusty cloud]

There's no forest attuned trait.

Only arctic, desert, swamp and underground.

[tepid rampart]

I suspect it will be tied to a racial transformation

[weak laurel]

ahh, understandable, but too bad too. I guess an equivalent power might be in Nature tomes.

[lusty cloud]

Possibly.

[tepid rampart]

I also think it’s likely that there is a nature themed enchantment/transformation that will give forest concealment

Go full guerrilla warfare

[lusty cloud]

And some tome units could have it natively.

[tepid rampart]

Almost certainly

[lusty cloud]

Won't be surprised if Glade Runner would have something like that.

They had concealment in AoW 2, at the very least.

[tepid rampart]

I also think that cannibalism is a fun trait idea for these elves but not sure, I think one of the traits buffed archer units tho if so then that is an auto pick

[lusty cloud]

There was a trait that gives archers additional rank.

[weak laurel]

Yeah, in fabled hunters.

[tepid rampart]

So fabled hunters and one other trait then, I think cannibals is the way to go there, helps with the alignment I will take these elves down and is thematic

As I said chaos and nature theme

[weak laurel]

Yeah, they fit your chosen affinities perfectly.

[tepid rampart]

More nature than chaos tho (at least in terms of tomes from what we have seen thus far

[lusty cloud]

Yeah, many chaos tomes seem a bit to fiery for wood elves.

[tepid rampart]

Tho it could be amusing to have archers with flaming poisoned arrows

[lusty cloud]

Acid arrows

[tepid rampart]

Oh I like that

These wood elves could make a great enemy for my planned high orcs (no idea on tomes or traits for them yet but the idea is firmly planted in my head to make them at some point)

Imperial runecrafters with the tome of enchantment could be fun for the high orcs come to think of it

[warm quiver]

We did have frost witches with a half fire attack, justified by being so cold it's hot.

"Frostburn" har har har.

[lusty cloud]

And acid darts that dealt fire/blight damage.

[wet scarab]

That always felt weird to me. Like, it kinda makes sense I guess since acid burns

[hollow escarp]

If I’m trying to build an Avatar themed pantheon, which race do you think I should use for which nation? Right now I’m thinking Air Nomads would be elves/hobbits, Water Tribe would be toads, Earth Kingdom would be dwarves/moles, and Fire Nation would be Humans/Orcs (maybe Draconians later on). What do you guys think?

[rose saffron]

I would make them all Humans with different Traits and Cultures

But that's just me

[languid jungle]

I'd say Fire is Industrious/whichever name for the new Ashes Culture, Earth is Feudal/Industrious, Water is Feudal/Primal, and Air is Mystic :>

[rose saffron]

Using only the ones we have right now: Earth is Feudal, Water is Barbarian, Fire is Industrious, and Air is Mystic

[languid jungle]

I agree

[lusty cloud]

Water could also work as Mystic too.

[static tundra]

after thinking about it FOR WAY TOO LONG, i think i shall go for a High culture, with Ancient wise ones, scions of evil, For race i will do Goblin as a base but make them porcelain white, Body trait i shall go with resistant, and mind trait i shall go with ferocious, and the tome shall be zeal

[warm quiver]

Are you trying to play as marble gargoyles?

[static tundra]

that kind of fits doesn't it for marble gargoules

was not my intention but it's a good one lol

[pale walrus]

I'm just going to try and make a race of garden gnomes

[static tundra]

NICE

[keen forge]

ORKS! ORKS! ORKS! ORKS! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHHH!

[static tundra]

you really like your green skins

although personally I prefer Orcs

[slender seal]

I think I'm gonna go for pyromantic, industrious orcs. The sons and daughters of earth and flame, children of iron who drink freedom and live life to the hilt.

Hateful gods from other realms will try to bind us.
They will fail.

Or maybe barbaric elves living deep in the forest. Born from the amber of the all-tree, sharp-bladed and quickfanged. Reminding all who would use their dark magics that all debts to the earth are paid in seed or blood.

Or coastal humans, who pray to the gods of the pelagic depths which spawned them. The sea in their blood, salt air in their breath, and the stars above, their teachers. The mother below has food, wealth, and secrets for those brave enough to meet her in the dark corners of the earth.

[slender seal]

Or maybe dark, necromantic goblins.
For a thousand years, they have called us monsters. Desperate to preserve ourselves, we kept to the dungeons and the deeps, fighting, bleeding, and dying.
Oh, how we died.
And died.
And died again.
But death was a lesson. A lesson we learned to return from. And now, we rise from the gloom and the muck. We rise to take the sun which for generations, your kind have hoarded from us.
Can you hear it, sunwalkers? The sound of a thousand-thousand fingers clawing at the very dirt beneath your feet? What will you do, we wonder, when the bones you put in the earth rise and put you in their place.

[glad basalt]

Nice concepts, @slender seal !

[slender seal]

Thank you 😄

I'm trying to make it as a game writer %D

[glad basalt]

Best of luck, then 🙂

Meanwhile, I think I will call my human barbarians, heirs of nomads and ruined cities, neconers to the Valley of Wonders, the Last in Line. Dio's lyrics fit very well.

[keen forge]

..................................wtf?????

ummmm really? did you really have to go that far out? it is a game we are talking about here not a fantasy novel.

Plus fantasy novels like that already exist so you could probably get your reading fix there if you wanted.

But like i said this is a game, albeit a good game where you can make custom races, but it is a game not a novel lol

[glad basalt]

Eh, if people want to be creative, let them.

[rose saffron]

Yeah, what's with this pointless criticism?

[wide halo]

If you don't feel like creating something inspired by the game, that's perfectly fine. What's uncalled for is attacking people who enjoy writing, art, and other creative hobbies. They're not hurting anyone, and going after others just for having fun is needlessly cruel.

[golden pollen]

I would not be surprised if people might try to play as Halfings, and having a Wizard King named Gandalf as the leader. XD

[late epoch]

I'm sure a lot of people will because ||it's an achievement!||

[golden pollen]

Oh really? XD That makes me more determined to do that one day.

[wide halo]

If someone fights a human wizard/halfling race combo in MP, they should rename their throne city Isengard 😛

[slender seal]

Half the fun of games like this for me is the ability to use my imagination to make something cool. It's like playing with Legos.

I refuse to feel bad for having an imagination. Overactive as it may be.

I enjoy RPGs that let you build custom parties for that exact reason. I have a little handwritten journal meant to be a travel log for my wasteland 3 Party

[weak laurel]

I strongly prefer custom-built parties too and having my own headcanon for them rather than being bound to preset stuff.

[slender seal]

Absolutely. Double points if there's a little window to write their Bio.

Double DOUBLE points if it's without a character limit.

[slate hollow]

I think I will go with rat form, and using the masses to conquer everything. The idea is to have the faction leader called "The Mother" a mutant female rar that made the whole race possible, and uses the hunger as its main force. I hope I can make a fat huge rat woman so that it fits the theme. The idea also is to have the horde tome, and grab poison/plague related tomes.

Also some kind of Drow Race would be cool, with dark skinned elves that ride spiders and leave underground. I will possible make an Underdark style game, with underground races and the surface is devastated with roaming beasts and hostile things, so the only way to survive is underground

[wide halo]

the idea that the surface of the world is too hostile for life is a really cool origin for an underdark style setting. That adds a bit of survival horror to the concept

[lusty cloud]

There's actually already a realm modifier that implies something like that.

[wide halo]

especially if there are places where you have to risk going above ground, as there's no connecting tunnels

[lusty cloud]

https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/942176/Rule Modifiers.png

Bottom left.

So setting such scenario up seems to be very easy, especially if you add "regenerating infestations".

[wide halo]

this is one of the things I'm excited about the most. Just the sheer amount of variation you can add to realms. It's something I was looking for in PF - I kept having to randomise planets until I could find that voidbringer thrallworld/reign of chaos/consumed by the void hellhole

[lusty cloud]

Yeah, that was a bit of a problem. I glad that Triumph kept that system and allowed players more control over it.

[slender seal]

As much as I wanna do some weird combos, I can't wait to do some earth shaping dwarves

[late epoch]

Hovering sky-shaping dwarves!

Rocks are... beneath them

[slate hollow]

What about tree loving dwarves

[brazen pond]

semi-random funny idea: Frostling Toads/Frogs led by an uppity Wizard Queen (elf form since I can't make a fairy leader) who proclaims herself to be "the strongest"

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Blue_circled_9.svg/1200px-Blue_circled_9.svg.png

[opal rover]

I understood that reference 🧊 9️⃣

[slender seal]

That could also be really neat 😮

Oh man

Industrial halflings.

Kinda inspired by the ending of Lord of the Rings where frodo comes back to The Shire to find it's been decimated

[slate hollow]

A halfling wizars that somehow got in charge of barbaric orcs, cause he taught them how to make fire.

[slender seal]

....Okay that but instead of fire, baked goods.

Winning over a clan of vicious orcish warriors with the power of pastry.

Oh

Oh man

Human ice-maiden ruling over a nation of dwarves: Snow White's Ascention

All hail the Queen of the Mountain! Fairest of them all! Poison-drinker! Witchbane! Sleeper-in-glass!

[opal rover]

Sounds like a great concept!

[golden pollen]

Had a similar idea of it as well. ^^ Without the ice part, though.

[dry sluice]

just realised - I want to make the Burmecians from Final Fantasy 9 - Feudal rats with Wonder Architects (in case I start next to giant tree) and a trait that makes polearms start with higher rank.

[lost rover]

Just a friendly reminder: "[Rule 6 - Memes]
Whilst memes, in general, are allowed, certain memes are fully prohibited in this server: Pepe The Frog and Deus Vult. Offensive memes in general are not allowed."

Politics are also not allowed, so even memes that are political such as kekistan are prohibited.

Since this is the first offense this is an unofficial warning, but you may want to glance over the server rules again.

[brittle drift]

I'll go with Barbarian Elves riding spiders with Swarmers and Fabled Hunters.

[blazing pawn]

What would be the closest thing to Tomb Kings I could make?

[brittle drift]

Desert Adaption for sure. Dark for the Necromancy.

[blazing pawn]

good, Settra shall rise once more in this new world and RULE

btw where is a list of all these tomes?

[slender seal]

We have a somewhat comprehensive list of t1 tomes somewhere

but there are five tiers total

[grizzled pasture]

There's a stickied thread on the forums, at least

[wet scarab]

there is a list of known tomes here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tomes-of-magic-info-compilation.1566567/

[keen ivy]

I've switched again today, writing scenarios. 😅 Going to play the character from my first Age of Wonders game, possibly dressed as the poster lady.

Julia of Halléphèbe,
Wizard Queen with the Tome of Zeal,
leading the Militant Panthers,
with Dark Culture,
Imperialists and Chosen Uniters.

I might get forced to pick an alignment rather early because of the circle of Zealotry

[faint cloak]

I personally was going to go a dark elf theme. So elf, dark, but sadly there is no evil tome that seem to be for shadow magic. Seems like it mostly necromancy and frost. 😦

[keen ivy]

The plot is that the empire is finishing their conquest of Sehind province, home of the tigrans. The tigran Inspector of Rituals Yuri Goldthread is almost done pushing Aldo's Gilded Maw clan out, but the latter has called for reinforcements from Malix the Great's mole warriors and animal hordes.

Seeing that things might be more complicated than they should have been, the Emperor sends Metal General Isilmonde Thule, a monster of magical power and ambition. She's got orcs and automatons walking in unison, but she can't coordinate with the sanctimonious Yuri, nor can he suffer her highborne arrogance. The two may still clash even as the campaign should be drawing to a close.

Caught in the middle is Tulsimer Ouemonfis, leading the Faithful Blind. They've got all good traits and Mystic culture, but the tricky minister only has a Tome of Souls to play and we'll see what he does with it.

[keen ivy]

Hm, you could go heavy into Dark Culture, pick little to no T1-T3 dark tomes and still qualify for the Tome of Oblivion on Tier 4.

[faint cloak]

i me is there like a shadow theme tome though?

or lets see illusion theme one?

[keen ivy]

I think Tome of the Doomherald is going to be classic shadow magic and Tome of Oblivion should qualify as well

[faint cloak]

im mostly thinking FFH elfs lol

oh ok that is good then

do we have a list of all the tomes yet?

or is it too early for that still?

[keen ivy]

Some shadow magic is going to be more under chaos, like tome of Pandemonium

[faint cloak]

like i saw the tier 1s

[keen ivy]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tomes-of-magic-info-compilation.1566567/ this is what we have so far

[faint cloak]

also i thought to get the dark affinity (that is what it's called right?) you needed to invest in dark tomes?

[keen ivy]

Can I recommend Tome of Rock? that's what I'm going for with my Dark Elves.

[faint cloak]

hmm

i think dwarf for rock

or some other themes

but that my personal preference

[keen ivy]

If balance doesn't change that much, the investment required is actually pretty low

[faint cloak]

thankfully this game lets anyone do whatever

[keen ivy]

Rock gives you Gargoyles and Bleeding

And camouflage in rocks, and passage through rocks

I get that it's not a straight shot to shadow but it fits

[faint cloak]

yeah but the good news is

people can add more tomes with mods maybe

and if it anything like all the other paradox products

the moddding should be amazing

[gritty hill]

FROG

[keen ivy]

Full breakdown of the plan since I slotted in heroes I'd already mapped out

[hasty oriole]

dark with tome of zeal and unicorns "There weakness comes from rejection of the Light, and we WILL beat it in to them."

[drowsy willow]

Evil shadow elves with lightning spells or one of the animal forms + shadow tome and go full necro

[glad basalt]

Honestly for my version of the Dark elves I am mostly going nature.

Unlike the other version of Evil Elves, which will be High and a mix of Chaos and Order.

[grizzled pasture]

Ditto, lots of bright lights and fire

Nightmare steeds, tyrant knights, all that jazz

[glad basalt]

Oh, the Nightmare steeds might go to Dark Elves. I loved the Executioners the moment I saw them ^^

[uncut helm]

Personally : Magic mole with arcane/nature alignment with possibly wolf or nightmare mount

[heady plover]

Resistant + Defensive Tactics Humans. Industrious + Tome of Warding. Runesmiths and Ritual Cannibals. Ultimate tank wave.

[native garnet]

I like dark elves with wolf mounts and lightning magic I think might be my first race.

[heady plover]

I respect the wolf game, prob gunna be incorporated into my second or third

[ornate needle]

First faction will certainly be a strong, ferocious barbarian orcs with a champion leader, starting with tome of the horde and probably tone of rock after. Not tropey at all.

[vapid heron]

Dark Culture, Necromancer tomes, race i am a bit unsure. Humans, Dark Elves or maybe felines.

the deep dive video of the tomes was nice, together with the last dev video of necro toads made me want to live out the necromancers dream. maybe summoning some astral monsters myself. so maybe mixing necro tomes with astral summoning tomes.

[heady plover]

Lotta evil dark bois in this chat

[native garnet]

never said I was evil. I could be good aligned dark elves lol

[torn shadow]

the dark culture has -10 evil alignment 😛 Although, I do suppose there are some options for dark but not evil.

[keen ivy]

With Chosen Uniters, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be nudged into a Good playstyle 😅

[warm quiver]

I think it's peculiar that high has alignment mechanics but dark does not, when they both begin the game with an alignment modifier.

I'm okay with peculiar. But I can't help but wonder what would change if they had similar incentives to maintain an alignment.

[grizzled pasture]

I don't think it's peculiar, that's just High's gimmick, so if anything I just have no idea why Dark would also have it

[warm quiver]

I guess that's from the perspective that they are opposites. But when I think about it, that's not really the case.

A flawed assumption just based on the fact that they have seemingly opposing affinities and starting alignments.

But then again, if they did have an alignment gimmick, it would be hard to say they are not opposites.

[static ether]

their affinities aren't really opposing though. the opposite of high's 2 would be 2

[stark light]

And it's true. The phrase "Shadow Order" has a simple meaning, but "Chaotic Order" is something from philosophy.

[dreamy steppe]

Chaotic Order is just life lol

[late epoch]

We also saw it from the stream. The angel free city had an opinion malus for chaos vs order, but not from shadow vs order

[lusty cloud]

Angel city itself even had 2 shadow affinity.

[weak niche]

how long is your list so far ?

[keen ivy]

37 entries so far but there's 11 of those I'm not really interested in putting into the game

[weak niche]

I have 56 now. But I'am a little worried to play each at least once to make them appear as heroes

[drowsy willow]

If you pick the high culture you get special things for being evil aligned aswell

[keen ivy]

I feel like I've already run into a wall as to what I actually want 😅

Any more I add just pushes the bottom further down

[drowsy willow]

There just is tooo much to choose from xD

[weak niche]

I know exactly what you mean. 😆

[warm quiver]

That's part of the point I was making. They start with 10 nice, but get interesting things in any alignment. Dark starts with 10 naughty but it's irrelevant, yet their inherent abilities lean towards being a bastard.

[drowsy willow]

Ye, I think going high elves and making them evil could be cool

[keen ivy]

And I have the same concern, that I won't be able to give them the spotlight they deserve in the pantheon given how difficult it is to enter anybody in there

Unless I cheat somehow

[drowsy willow]

Go cannibal and eat everyone. Then you will surely be able to enter the pantheon ^^

[weak niche]

Everything would be easier, if they just would release this game now. So we could finally start playing

[keen ivy]

Also planned

[drowsy willow]

Nice

[keen ivy]

But maybe they should be barbarians, i don't know

[drowsy willow]

Cannibal halflings sound scarier tho. Imagine a group of short people with sharp teeth running towards you 😂

It’s like. What do I do now 😂

[keen ivy]

This guy was an Archdruid in AoW3 and Halfling Hunters looked pretty scary with their masks. I don't know that I'll be able to find that aesthetic again in 4.

[drowsy willow]

You can always change your mind untill/when the game comes out

[keen ivy]

yup, I do this because it's fun to toy around with in the present :)

[vapid heron]

i am also this one guy who creates all the evil empires in stellaris, just so that they all spawn in an multiplayer game with your friends and when they meet them with their optimized evil traits they know which motherf*cker create those monstrosities x'D.

[flat smelt]

Goblin Slayer Isekaied into Age of Wonders, forced to lead Goblins.
Hilarity Ensues.

[native garnet]

lol

[static tundra]

you should make a few types of goblins to kill then

[chrome timber]

I'm new here (though not new to AoW), and barely past forum 101. Excited to try a few different faction ideas:

• Mystic Devotees of Good, following a Wizard King with Tome of Warding.
  Motivated by the question "how do I explain that my mild-mannered magic hermit, facing understandable mortal prejudice due to the whole sealed-evil-in-a-can situation, finds a community of loyal followers?" Answer: they're scholars who knew to call for him specifically, because the ancient texts suggest he's sympathetic to their noble cause.
  Haven't decided on form and second trait. Considering Mana Channelers because I love summoning magic constructs to fight for me, or Runesmiths because I've always liked the idea of imbuing arms and armor with magic. (Plus it'd be nice to have some Materium affinity.)

• Industrious ❄️ arctic humans who are Adept Settlers and Wonder Architects, following their Champion (undecided about initial tome).
  Modeled after the Haslanti League of White Wolf's Exalted setting. In the source material, they're a loose alliance of (arguably) free peoples who build flying machines and plunder the ruins of an ancient sorcerous empire. I'm not completely sure whether Industrious fits the concept; I'm considering Feudal too.

• Dedicated battle mages. Arcane Focus for their Mind trait; Mystic culture; Powerful Evokers and possibly also Gifted Casters; any Tome that includes its own type of battle mage. Probably a Champion, since the faction's traits will offer plenty of casting points.
  Magic as the central aspect of warfare appeals to me deeply.
• A variant on the dedicated battle mages, that has High culture instead of Mystic.
  They fight by shooting abstract virtue-energy at their foes. As above, this appeals to me deeply.

[chrome timber]

I'm curious what I should expect Shadow affinity to offer me in the empire tree; I'm a bit worried about whether it'd clash with my good-guy playstyle. I'm guessing I can just not spend the Imperium on unlocks that don't help, though, and the affinity's opportunity cost is basically just "progress through other branches more slowly".

[chrome timber]

The broken symmetry makes sense to me. High culture gets Alignment Agenda because (the way I see it) they're especially invested in their ideas about How Things Should Be. Those ideas can be kind, or stern, or outright cruel, but whatever they are, High culture makes them central to how they live their lives and frame their choices.

Dark culture, to me, doesn't imply explicit immorality so much as amorality: the idea that an ordinary citizen doesn't care how their actions impact others, so they'll commit whatever sins benefit them. Contrast an evil High culture, where you can expect schools to teach their students that it's actually important to inflict suffering and obstruct others' happiness.

[weak laurel]

I like your first faction a lot. Low-key wards and runes, seems like emphasizing survivability and knowledge.

People who're trying to survive and don't want to get their hands dirty, doing as little harm as possible and putting their faith in constructs and magical creatures to help bring order and peace to the world. Scholarly but perhaps a bit naive.

[chrome timber]

My kind of people. I'll even own the "naive" judgment.

But I don't see this faction as necessarily meek overall; they're certainly accepting and welcoming of those who are meek, but collectively they also have an agenda and a fair degree of initiative.

Think, like, IRL computer nerds who see a social problem and think "I'm going to solve this with a website!"

Often a weird impulse, but sometimes genuinely useful.

[weak laurel]

It'd be interesting if the summoning/awakening of their wizard king was itself their breaking point where they're like "Ok, time to cash in some of our long-suffering peacenicking for a bit of coercive power..."

[chrome timber]

They're certainly stirred to action by the sudden upheaval of a bunch of ambitious Godir (right?) traipsing through innumerable realms.

If the question at hand is "how do we oppose the chaos and injustice caused by a bunch of absurdly powerful wizards suddenly wreaking their ambitions across the entire cosmos?", these are the people whose answer is "find our own absurdly powerful wizard, of course!"

"But, you know, like ... a nice one. With no atrocities. Do they make those?"

(I might be a little weak on the lore; my entry point to the franchise was AoW3 and I never finished the story)

[weak laurel]

I think AoW4 more than the previous games in the franchise encourages head-canon and having an open-ended, up-to-interpretation story, so I think you'll enjoy the rp stuff a lot.

[chrome timber]

Regarding the wards and runes, choosing Tome of Warding is mainly motivated by my fascination with "abstract" magic--this is a Wizard King who was more interested in really comprehending the cosmos than in his personal puissance, and a natural consequence of that type of understanding is magic-that-opposes-magic.

(But also, yeah, I have a defensive-reactive approach to conflict that is pretty strongly expressed in this faction.)

[keen ivy]

Will Mystic leaders be able to get a bow? 🤔

[chrome timber]

Good question. My guess is that Wizard Kings' loadout is independent of their culture, but I dunno about Champions. Notably, an Industrious champion can start with a fire orb, even though their units don't have access to that weapon. So, maybe?

[chrome timber]

(source: https://youtu.be/_iJX6wTx8qE?t=1208)

[static ether]

they might. industrious champions can get a hammer for shock, so mystic might get bows

[warm quiver]

The orbs are pretty badass.

[static ether]

i'm gonna have a hard time not making mage heroes, yea

[chrome timber]

Gotta love a shiny floaty ball of magic.

[warm quiver]

I hope there's a move where your guy uses the orb to bowl.

[keen ivy]

I'm having a hard time thinking of my heroes not starting with a horse 😅

[chrome timber]

gonna daydream about customizable attack animations now

[warm quiver]

Game needs boomerang axes too.

[chrome timber]

I'm guessing and hoping that you can buy your race's mount on turn 1

[keen ivy]

It doesn't even sound that hard.. there just needs to be a bell throw animation.

[keen ivy]

Are you? I would have expected to see that button here.

But then again, this orb wielding wizard king did start with a horse

[lusty cloud]

We would've seen that if cultural gear/mounts were purchasable.

And mount specific body traits ensure that your hero start with one, which also may imply that you can't just buy one.

[grizzled pasture]

Oh, oh! Mystic somethings with a focus on fire, called the Efreet (or some variation of the word)? 🤔

Not sure about form, thinking red-skinned orcs right now

Hmm, I need to read on on Arabian spirit-stuff

[glad basalt]

Well, we've already had Efreet in AoW, so it won;t be out of nowhere...

[lusty cloud]

Yup, summon from fire sphere of magic. And 1-2 had rather similar Djinn as part of the azrac/nomad roster.

[grizzled pasture]

Oh, neat, even better than I thought, then!

Well, assuming there isn't a Tome unit for it

[glad basalt]

Even if they are, you can treat them as a specific Efreet people.

[grizzled pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/its-not-the-same-jason-hayes-seal-team-its-different-its-not-similar-gif-23577372

[glad basalt]

Perhaps. But not even the Efreet have to be a monoculture.

Meanwhile, sibce horse archery seems to be a thing for barbarians, I have been considering investing in Materium after starting with the Tome of Beasts.

[glass spindle]

They've been getting a lot of hate, but the race mounts have me interested. The fact they change one of the faction units into a mounted option has me curious if they will have a similar effect on any tome units that can be unlocked.

Assuming they do or there are enough mounted units in tomes available, my plan is Dark Culture wolf riders with goblins or whatever culture has the evilist looking beast man face. Figure I'll do tome of beasts to start and will need to see how other tomes boost the debuff, overwhelm, and flank combo I'm going for.

[grizzled pasture]

The fact they change one of the faction units into a mounted option

Wait, what?

[grizzled pasture]

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here? 🤔

[glad basalt]

Oh, sorry. I was going for Nightmare Mounts for that one.

Fabled Hunters for archery, then Tome of Beasts for extra cavalry power and then...Enchantment, maybe?

[remote gulch]

Yup
Mount trait give some non-cav units mounts

[glass spindle]

Looks like it might not for dark though ironically. Still feels like wolf mount is a great home for the Dark Culture.

[lusty cloud]

One of your cultural units turns into cavalry, if you pick special mount body trait and have only one cavalry unit in your roster. We do not know every unit that can get a mount this way, but we do know that for High it's their battlemage and for Industrious it's their Bastion (T3 shield unit). So it seems that unit in question may be faction T3.

[dreamy steppe]

trying to figure out how to make Cluny the Scourge from Redwall

...not sure if Ritual Cannibal is too Ritual

maybe go Ruthless Raiders instead

[grizzled pasture]

Speaking of, do we have any idea what makes a battle mage? 🤔 Melee? Armour/health? Something else?

[wide halo]

I would guess that they favour damage output over healing and buffs

[grizzled pasture]

Ohhhhh, right, somehow I forgot that in AW3 mages were all filed under 'Support', that would make sense then, yeah

[dreamy steppe]

Every support we've seen has a single action attack and at least one single action buff

the only Battle Mage we've seen to my knowledge had a repeating attack and a full action, longer range, higher single hit damage, debuff

but we also saw the toad leader with the Orb

get a repeating action attack

where the WK leader in the reveal stream, had a single action attack

[grizzled pasture]

Yeah, I figure the hammer was like the Dvar one in PF

[brazen pond]

battle mage is basically archer, but non-physical

[teal kraken]

Probably Wizard, Human, Dark. The usual. xD

[lusty cloud]

We've seen at least two of them. One was undead Spellberaker in dwarven stream and another was Warlock in toad stream.

Lost Wizard and Banshee were also classified as battlemages, IIRC.

[brazen pond]

Lost Mages are T5, wouldn't that make them Mythic

I know some T4s are not Mythic, but I would be surprised if the same applies to T5s

looking at the stream again, Lost Mages have the Mythic icon, it is consistent with the Mage Bane, which is also Mythic.

[lusty cloud]

Ah, I see.

What about banshee?

[oblique bramble]

Makes me wonder if these units are somehow producible. Conceptually, something like a Lost Wizard doesn't appear too spamable.

[dreamy steppe]

oh yeah the Spellbreaker, had a repeating attack and an aoe dispell that we saw for sure I think

...does anyone have that statblock handy?

[dreamy steppe]

huh

did not remember the aoe dispell doing damage but that has to be Star Purge right?

interesting

[lusty cloud]

Yup.

[dreamy steppe]

I do wonder what "attuned cast" does

the Soother(Mystic Supp) we saw in Dark Toad Stream had a non stacking discount for each one in the stack

[chrome timber]

my guess is that it represents the mystic culture's "gain buffs from combat spellcasting" thing, and it's what activates the Attunement effect below

[dreamy steppe]

nah that's Attunement:Star Blades

it's on all the Mystic stuff according to the streams we've seen

[chrome timber]

oh, so we've seen that "attuned cast" isn't on other Mystic units?

[dreamy steppe]

yes

we've seen Soother

and also, Attuned Cast is A. Diamond Icon, and B. above Defense Mode

both things that say it's an active ability

[smoky fulcrum]

Wonder if it has access to a limited spell book

though spells are shown differently in 4 then they were in 3

[dreamy steppe]

it can't have it like Lost Mage

because if it did it almost certainly would have used it

and from Lost Mage we also saw that units casting "spells" from abilities don't count as a spell cast

[smoky fulcrum]

Could it be an ability to trigger starblades like doesnt really do anything on its own but counts as a spell cast for the sake of triggering Starblades for your army

[dreamy steppe]

maybe

Bastion did have an ability to stack Bolstered Defence on allies

though that was an adjacency thing and Star Blades is a fightwide thing

[smoky fulcrum]

any were that shows the tool tip?

[dreamy steppe]

pretty sure Party Elite did

[smoky fulcrum]

Could be something like triggers starblades for adjacent units

[dreamy steppe]

IIRC it was "on spell cast this unit gets +1 for frost, fire, or shock damage" or something like that

had +1 for one of three random spell channels

[smoky fulcrum]

yea

[dreamy steppe]

stacks 3 times, lasts 3 turns

[warm quiver]

Always wash your hands after you use the bathroom.

[chrome timber]

Goblins as portrayed in in AoW3: "... with sewage."

[chrome timber]

(I'm glad this isn't a Culture in AoW4)

[warm quiver]

Resistance debuffs are fine by me.

[smoky fulcrum]

What i'm hoping for is less CC

been playing planetfall recently and most of the unit losses i suffer are due to pretty much my entire army just being mass cc'd all the time

i think they went a little to rampant with the amount of CC in planetfall

[lusty cloud]

Given that you can get all of your cavalry an AOE immobilize, I don't think AoW 4 would have less CC than 3 or PF.

[chrome timber]

that "given" is unfamiliar to me; wanna clue me in?

[smoky fulcrum]

Planetfall had alot of CC

and displacement

[lusty cloud]

There's spider mounts body trait, that gives your cavalry spider mounts with Web active ability.

That ability is ranged AOE immobilize.

[chrome timber]

On topic, I just realized I need to make Hylians, because it's trivial

all you have to do is pick elfkin and Feudal, and you're pretty much done

[glad basalt]

I'd just change their height a little.

[chrome timber]

yeah, the source material portrays them as pretty much "humans with pointy ears"

it'd be nice to have diversity sliders for some visual traits, like not only "how tall are they" and "how bulky are they", but "how much do their height and width vary?"

skin colors, too

'cause in some games, the only thing Hylians have in common with each other is the pointy ears

[uncut helm]

Question not related to the subject, each time I see someone talking about PF it's always negative so, is it worth playing it solo ? I got the game a while ago without DLC and never tried it

[chrome timber]

PF was worth my money, to me. I play solo. I like its customization options, empire progression, and economy system, and of course its tactical combat is rich

[uncut helm]

Thank for your answer I think I will try it while waiting for aow4

[warm quiver]

It's one of if not my favorite games in the strategy rpg genre.

It's not flawless but there's a million fun ways to play it.

It wasn't a very straightforward learning experience for me, some things didn't click for a while.

Maybe that was just due to being changed in patches.

[shadow tapir]

Star purge was a aoe attack? What was its secondary effect?

[chrome timber]

Found an answer to my question in a stream. The empire skill tree looks pretty friendly to picky choosers like me: you don't have to buy any of the skills you unlock, and skills don't seem to have prerequisites--their position on their Affinity branch only determines when they become available for purchase.

In the evil toads stream, at 1:01:58, Jordi skips over the second empire skill in the Shadow branch, and buys the third one: https://youtu.be/RwZuTB3Zocw?t=3716

[chrome timber]

so here's a bit of lore that I overlooked the first time I read dev diary 3:

Through their connection to the Astral Sea, ascended Mortal Champions and powerful Wizards alike find themselves blessed (or cursed) with unforetold powers. They are Godir, god-like beings, who can travel the worlds and can even use the forces of Creation to create their own followers.
I don't actually need an excuse for my wizard king to have friends, because wizard kings can quite literally make friends!

[drowsy willow]

Ohh yeh, the faction creation stuff in the mage heaven is lore wise, you creating your followers. I think they said that in the first stream show off. Not sure

When they did the ice orcs

[summer sluice]

How much Cavalary do you get when using this? I.e. how many units, how spammable are they, how durable, when do you get them and what else can you get at the same time? Lots of things to consider before I'd worry about this.

[glass spindle]

I'd hope for quite a few. There are 52 tomes and so far there has been 1 t3 that has been shown to be cav without the body trait.

It would be unfortunate imo if you couldn't get a conacopia of cav options with that body trait considering it does nothing but buff your scout and t3 at the start of the game while doing nothing for the rest of your army.

Since spears already have the giantkiller trait that makes cav and large units take more damage against them, I'd expect cav spam to have counters readily available as well.

[keen ivy]

If cavalry is decently common in the tomes, the bonuses should be fine I expect

[lusty cloud]

We don't know how many cavalry units there are in tomes (or if that trait turns some of them into cavalry, like it does with some cultural units), as we have only seen one and it was T4. We also know that two cultures have T3 cavalry units as part of their respective rosters. But that trait, as I've already mentioned, may turn one of your cultural units into cavalry (unless you already have two cavalry units in your roster) and gives your ruler mount regardless of their loadout. Provided that most scouts (mystic one is sole exception) are cavalry and you can pick trait that gives you additional scout at the start of the game, you could have as much as three web slinging units at the start of the game.

[summer sluice]

And there's a trait, iirc, that starts all your scouts faster.

It could be fun indeed.

Anyone seen how useful scouts are?

[keen ivy]

Scouts look really good at their job and not terribly good at combat, although they are mounted archers.

That being said.. you can give them a Direwolf with Enfeebling Howl and I think that might be quite good if you can get them to survive despite having 0 armour and minimal health.

[thin yarrow]

I want to make the Warcraft Horde except its halflings.

Honorable yet militaristic freed slave midgets lead by High Overlord Squee the Kneecapper

[full dove]

My first will probably be whichever species can make the coolest looking Undead-like Leader, because I'm definitely starting with Necromancy.
My favorite will almost certainly be the Dragons/Lizardmen when they become available.
(Though I may be slightly biased, being a Dragon VTuber, lol)

[chrome timber]

if your leader is a Wizard King, then their visual customization options are completely decoupled from your people's

you can be a gross lich, ruling over a people of total normies

[pale walrus]

I also can't wait to be a dragon

because dragon

[chrome timber]

irrefutable rationale

[pale walrus]

ikr

[full dove]

Which is why my first people will probably be humans, for that classic skeleton look.
Because I'm gonna be honest... as soon as I can, I'm gonna kill and raise them all. lol

[grizzled pasture]

You know, I'm thinking High Elves with a heavy focus on and might just end up my favorite, aesthetically speaking
https://www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D38933358/

[keen ivy]

This is my thoughts for Warcraft factions in post-3rd war Kalimdor.
Darnassus isn't in because I think its mess of politics is best represented as a city state - your goal as Shandris Feathermoon might be to unite the Sentinels under a new direction. If Velen doesn't beat you to it.
The tauren are marked as secondary factions because I'm not sure how to model their Horde affiliation. Maybe Magatha would be a player, and Thunder Bluff a city-state for her and Thrall to compete over?
The Quiraji are unfortunately missing, but I think they would be a Desert-Adapted people with Prolific Swarmers, Great Builders starting with Tome of Rock.

Oh yeah and I made up Twinbraid's first name. Bael Modan always got the short end of the stick.

[lusty cloud]

Won't blue orcs (or maybe even blue humans with buff slider set to the max) with glowing eyes be a better fit for draenei?

[keen ivy]

I don't think orcs are a fit because of their tusks. I'm also already stretching the orc frame to represent trolls.

If there are blue-skinned humans in the game, then maybe? But I think toads are okay stand-ins given how out of place the Draenei can feel to some.

[warm quiver]

Toads are very vaguely like the classic draenei from warcraft 3.

[keen ivy]

Now if I were to do Outlands instead, I would have the naga as toads and the draenei as something else

but that'll wait for the first DLC, because A'dal is most certainly a dragon (:

[warm quiver]

There will probably be lizards to play with which might make better draenei because of tails and horns.

Assuming they have can wear horns.

[iron wind]

Very amused that your stand in for Tauren are moles

[static tundra]

I personally will try to recreate some of my favorite factions, From other game franchises, some of them will be from heroes of might and magic 4, Asylum will be the first i will try to make, next, i will try to make Academy, and also want to try to make Preserve

[lusty cloud]

Preserve should be a fairly easy one.

Academy too, for that matter. You only need to pick between humans, halflings and dwarves.

Asylum sounds like by far hardest one to pin down. At least if one restricts himself to the base roster, from which AoW seemingly has only Nightmares and dragons. Things get a little bit better if one considers dwelling creatures, like goblin knights, trolls and beholder.

[glad basalt]

Warlock and Dungeon are very easy, too. Same for Castle/Haven/Life.

Barbarians for the bandits? And maybe Seafarers to reference Tawni Balfour.

[brazen pond]

decided to also put together my own faction chart too

[lusty cloud]

I think dungeon may work if you use toads as troglodyte stand in, but it probably still will lack half of its roster.

Same with Warlock, but at least you could get some gargoyles.

[glad basalt]

I suspect Griffon will be somewhere again.

[lusty cloud]

Most likely.

[glad basalt]

Warlock is a Dark summoning culture in its essence.

[lusty cloud]

Well, Dark battlemage is even named Warlock 😁

[drowsy willow]

Guys I have to say this. You and @keen ivy are absolutely crazy lmao. BUT!!! Big but, I love this! I’m fascinated that both of you did charts with the races you want to make

[brazen pond]

cheers

[drowsy willow]

Only seen small parts of your chart tho @keen ivy

[keen ivy]

I've posted a couple of versions if you search for my messages that have attachments

[drowsy willow]

Did you guys check PartyElite’s stream on the faction creator and write it all down? I feel like the kind of work you guys did would take loads of time

[keen ivy]

I might actually snatch some of your Touhou characters 😅

[brazen pond]

haha, you're welcome

[keen ivy]

Eric did that work, see his post under #wiki. At first it was mostly notes, then we got the exact names of all the traits and cultures and that spurred inspiration. I went from a paper notepad to a spreadsheet, made some formulae, I'm having fun.

[drowsy willow]

Ohh I’ve missed out. I totally missed there was a wiki

[keen ivy]

I don't really go off the tooltips because balancing is still ongoing. Mostly off what the names sound like and whether that fits with my idea.

When I play these characters, if I play them, I'll probably change some of the traits to fit more gameplay-founded ideas as of the balance.

[drowsy willow]

I’ll check out the wiki right now and see if I find something interesting. I have a few ideas on my mind but I haven’t tried anything out really

[keen ivy]

Anyway, have some more Warcraft characters from the post-3rd war setting, this time Lordaeron :)

[lusty cloud]

Kel'Thuzad faction could simply be called "Cult of the Damned" 😄

[keen ivy]

I definitely want to do that, but it's a culture name 😅

Same thing with the "Immaculate", I just had to make up a name that fits how the Scarlet Crusade views itself

[lusty cloud]

I see.

What about Dark Horde faction? Any plans?

[keen ivy]

No, I'd given prior thought to these two settings so it was pretty quick

But the Dark Horde lives in a very complicated space, and it's hard to know what they would have done had they gotten a chance. Maybe it's best to wait for Dragon Dawn?

[lusty cloud]

Fair enough.

[keen ivy]

Maybe Ruthless Raiders, Scions of Evil, Tome of the Horde, Dark Culture, regular Orcs? they are very orcy orcs

[lusty cloud]

Sounds about right. After all, they were the Old Horde remnant.

Speaking of factions in that region, there may be a place for Dar'Khan, as third undead faction. Unless you have plans for him to be a hero under Kel'Thuzad.

And Syndicate as another independent force.

[keen ivy]

Oh that's what I forgot!

Zul'Aman!

[lusty cloud]

Oh, they too.

[keen ivy]

But yeah I imagine Dar'khan, Baron Rivendare and all the others would be city-state leaders actually. Start every one of these players on equal footing, say that everyone is very weakened by the Scourge and that the Lich King's control has slipped following the events of The Frozen Throne.

[keen ivy]

I don't think the Syndicate is a terribly significant force. Honestly I'd rather put the Alterac ogres, they're the ones with the tiara after all. 👀 They're all fine as marauders. The other faction that would fit are the Wildhammer Dwarves of Aerie's Peak.

[lusty cloud]

They still are remnants of Alterac, even in their sorry state.

[keen ivy]

Dalaran would be a fine city-state also.

[static tundra]

indeed, but it seems like the pyromancy tome is chaos aligned witch fits

[golden pollen]

Well, I do got an idea for another custom faction. ^^ So, here are the details.

Form: Ratkin.
Body Trait: Fast Recuperation.
Mind Trait: Tenacious.
Culture: Feudal.
Society Traits: Chosen Uniters and Adept Settlers.
Starting Tome: Tome of Beasts.
Ruler Origin: Wizard King.
Wizard King Race: Toadkin.
Starting weapon: Either a sceptar, or sword and shield.
Name Leader: King Bahm of the Hidden Animal Kingdom.
Finally, Faction Name: Followers of Bahm.

This leader is actually based on a character from a Dutch comic book series. ^^ Maybe some Dutchies will know it.

[static tundra]

it's odd that at the moment we don't have Full or Culture, as the rest have ones that are pure whatever

[chrome timber]

is what a province is before you annex it

is infestations

[static tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/iguess-gif-6228980

however, a pirate Culture can be hypothetically

but I think this would have to have its own discussion

[tardy saddle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXQwx1EolD8

[native garnet]

im sure as we get more cultures we will get more combinations of affinities

[drowsy willow]

True, who knows. We might even get more cultures down the line 🤷🏼‍♂️

[tepid stag]

Race Name:The Pidgeons
Race: Rats
Culture: High or Dark (but will try all of them to see what feels the best)
Tomes: The animal one (for swarming), cant rememeber the name and whichever path in the holy books you need for the angel wings (could go for demon wings as well)
I want flying rats ^.^

[glad basalt]

Nice :).

[flat smelt]

Nappa:..............I GET IT!

[native garnet]

you mean more after the first 4 DLCs? I hope so. im hoping this game has a long profitable lifespan

[golden pollen]

I made this up as well from a previous idea I mentioned here as well. ^^

Form: Dwarfkin
Body Trait: Bulwark
Mind Trait: Fast Initiative
Culture: Feudal
Society Traits: Devotees of Good and Adept Settlers
Starting Tome: Tome of Rock
Ruler Origin: Wizard King
Wizard King Race: Human
Starting weapon: Orb, or greatsword.
Name Leader: Snow White
Finally, Faction Name: Dwarven Subjects of Snow White.

I am having fun in making up factions I want to play, so when I have another idea, I will place that here too. ^^

[tardy saddle]

dwarves with tome of rock make want me do "rock and stone"

https://tenor.com/view/deep-rock-galactic-rock-and-stone-gif-22047860

[brazen pond]

the T3 elemental Tome in Materium better be Tome of Stone

for the sake of completeness

[tepid stag]

I had a similar idea but with halflings and an elf leader, where I somehow made the elf green and the halflings could fly and hopefully have monkey like features(maybe a beastly transformation if there is one) so i can have The wicked witch of the west XD. idk might be to over the top >.<. Not really sure on most of the other specifics maybe dark for the culture?

[glad basalt]

Definitely Dark, unless it's WIcked.

[keen ivy]

Deep Rock Galactic is definitely a Wizard King though, their dwarves are made to behave undwarfly

[tardy saddle]

secretly goblin CEO of DRG :^)

[golden pollen]

Rock and Stone, indeed. XD

[golden pollen]

Another one. XD

Form: Goblinoid
Body Trait: Quick Reflexes
Mind Trait: Overwhelm Tactics
Culture: Barbarian
Society Traits: Prolithic Swarmers and Ruthless Raiders
Starting Tome: Tome of the Horde
Ruler Origin: Champion
Starting weapon: Great Axe
Name Leader: Warlord Gnerk Nielk
Finally, Faction Name: Horde Goblins

[steady delta]

Form: Elven
Body Trait: Keen Sighted
Mind Trait: Arcane Focus
Culture: High
Society Traits: Devotees of Good Mana Channelers
Starting Tome: Tome of the Pyromancy
Ruler Origin: Champion
Starting weapon: Staff / Orb
Name Leader: Light of Dawn Mylesia Sunsworn
Faction Name: Phoenix Elves

[warm quiver]

If you do a DRG faction, make sure your mission control has green skin.

I think the green is just the glow of the control panels but It's funny to think about it like that.

[tardy saddle]

lol

[languid jungle]

Here's a visualization of my first faction I'll most likely play :)

[wide halo]

you have good taste

[languid jungle]

Thank you <3

[shadow tapir]

I'm frustrated by the fact that not picking the tome of souls as your first tome seems to be (a priori) always a mistake, whatever is your strategy or your roleplay idea for your playthrough. Since it gives you access to a new ("free") resource that you should try to amass as soon as possible, which allows you to cast spells for free, it seems to be the only optimal choice there could exist.

[keen ivy]

That depends on whether you want to do necromancy at all, and how soul inflation works out. It could be that the income from the Tome of Souls becomes negligible as the game goes on and you adopt new Tomes like the Tome of the Reaper.

And of course, outside that line of Tomes, I suspect Souls are a useless currency.

[chrome timber]

It's not free; it has an opportunity cost, in that you didn't choose a different tome. What if you'd chosen Tome of the Horde or Tome of Warding, and been able to apply a race transformation early? Those are powerful effects and (my impression is) they don't cost upkeep. Maybe your increased damage or resistance enables you to clear out marauders at a faster pace, or without fielding as many units.

It's not hard to imagine the "free" souls resource balancing evenly against "free" bonuses found in race transformations.

[shadow tapir]

But there are at least 2 spells in the tome of souls that are valid for any strategy. Obviously, they will be less potent in the late game, but still useful nonetheless.

[shadow tapir]

You can still get your race transformation with your second tome. You cannot start your soul economy "as soon as possible" with a second tome.

[chrome timber]

Then you also can't get a race transformation "as soon as possible" with Tome of Souls.

[shadow tapir]

But it doesn't matter: early game is a stomp anyway. However, not having started your soul economy as soon as possible has an impact not just during your early turns, but also later on.

Don't get me wrong though: the tome of souls might end up the worst first tome possible because souls end up being not valuable at all in the long run (which I'm a bit doubtful about, but still). But still, it gives this (potentially wrong) feeling that by not choosing that tome as your first, you're potentially missing a lot in the long run (even if it's not true).

[chrome timber]

Here's the way I think about it: until you either win or lose, every choice you make is meant to yield some kind of value, whether it's instantaneous (like picking up a pile of gold) or steady and lasting (like building a Vendor to get a steady gold income for as long as you own the city).

Tome of Souls adds value by giving you access to a whole distinct economy that's otherwise unavailable. Other tomes add value by making your units more useful in combat, or giving you cheap, powerful combat spells, or giving you more income in the game's core economy. Tome of Souls is qualitatively distinct, and that makes it tricky to balance its value yield against other tomes. Tricky, but not impossible. If we discover empirically that the tomes at a given tier aren't balanced, we should ask the devs for changes.

If you get fixated on "fear of missing out" analyses, you might also conclude that not picking Mystic is "always a mistake", because they're the only culture that can pick up astral echoes. But that opportunity comes at the cost of tending to build City Structures a bit more slowly, and other cultures have their own special value streams.

[summer sluice]

I don't know how you cane to this conclusion.

You're going to find it fairly challenging to amass mana and gold and imperium.

Having to amass souls onto of that will amplify the challenge.

And the question remains whether the things you buy with souls are equivalent, worse or better than their mana equivalent.

In other words it might be the better move most of the tine to just focus on mana

[chrome timber]

I don't really expect the souls economy to amplify the challenge, myself; it certainly gives you another number to think about, but it's handy to be able to apply your without spending , or be able to cast combat spells without spending (especially if you've got Attunement). It doesn't look to me like it brings any real drawbacks; I think it's just a question of opportunity cost.

[keen ivy]

Well the opportunity cost of not having, for instance Fulmination, that you can fund with easily produced mana rather than Souls you have to acquire in a very specific way, seems quite high.

[chrome timber]

Yeah, and that same tome also has resourcing implications, because it comes with Channeling Tower. Even without adjacency bonuses, it's a double-strength conduit with no location constraint. Get souls, and use them to cast spells and recruit units? Or get , and use it to cast spells and summon units? The qualitative distinction kinda fades after you examine it for a while.

[chrome timber]

(there's still some asymmetry here because Channeling Tower costs and to build, and requires Town Hall II, so you might actually have your second tome before you'd get a chance to build it anyway)

[chrome timber]

#aow4-general message
#share-your-faction

[green gust]

Elves, Keen Sighted. Adaptable. Feudal or High, Chosen Uniters, Fabled Hunters and finally either Tome of Roots or Tome of Faith.

[queen prawn]

I am thinking I'll make some desert ratkin. The Tigrans dominated deserts in aow3, so the rats had to be cunning. Keen sighted, desert adaptation. Industrious. Wonder architect to get bonuses from cities next to wonders, & fabled hunter to get bonus from clearing them--strategy is to have a capital in the desert, from which to seek out and settle the world's wonders. Tome of cryomancy start for frozen arrows, then mix of materium (+1 range + defensive summons/units) and shadow/nature tomes. Ranged and strong defense. We'd be constantly on the move though--after all, we're rats, not turtles
I'm not sure what the hero load out would be like yet though - any ideas?

[chrome timber]

if you want a recommendation based on mechanics, I think your leader can start with Fire Orb, which would help you deal with early fights against enemies with high Defense, and the initial skills will put you in a role your army otherwise has a hard time filling. Devs pointed out in their industrious dwarves stream that has a hard time in some encounters, due to their strict focus on physical attacks and physical defense.

You mentioned Tome of Cryomancy, though, so you'll quickly gain access to other non-physical approaches to combat. Are you planning to lean heavily on that tome's freeze-and-shatter gameplay? Do you think you'll recruit many White Witches? Those expectations might influence what roles your leader might want to fill.

Alternately, you can shrug at the gritty mechanics of it and pick a loadout that befits your leader's personality. Me, I'm definitely going to be playing some factions that have an awkward starting army, purely for RP motives.

[queen prawn]

The fire orb is a good idea. I was thinking cryomancy/nature tomes to not be overly reliant on physical damage & defense. I'm tempted by the white witch idea and focus on freeze/shatter for those weaker to elements - I am really curious to see more of the higher-tier tomes and their detailed spells to explore what a mid/late game build-out of this might look like

also not sure if I'd go champion or wizard queen. If wizard, hero could have the heavy elemental output (incl. fire orb)

[chrome timber]

I do get the impression that each early tome has at least loose synergy with later ones, but I'm not sure of specifics. I'd hope that Tome of the Cold Dark sprinkles a bit more of the Frozen status to synergize with Tome of Cryomancy, but I don't actually know.

[chrome timber]

if you go for wizard queen, she'll get a slightly different set of options for starting loadout, I think. Lightning Orb instead of Fire Orb, for one thing. No great hammer option, but I suspect the Godir Bow is repeating (whereas your crossbows are single-action or full-action).

If you do focus on freeze-and-shatter, you might consider the Champion's great hammer option; I expect it'd be really satisfying to freeze a unit, take a running start, and one-shot it with a giant hammer whomp. Potentially each turn.

[queen prawn]

I hadn't considered the single-action crossbows. I'm more of a fan of repeating. I'll have to think about that or if there's a way to get a different archer. The other thing is that the strong focus on wonders (incl. starting with one) means interesting combinations based on the units from wonders (up to the RNG gods)

[chrome timber]

(I assume, but haven't confirmed, that Tome of Cryomancy gives you access to a ruler skill to exploit Frozen)

[queen prawn]

Do we get unlock ruler skills from tomes?

[chrome timber]

here's Tome of Cryomancy, including the Frost Weapons tooltip:
https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/940797/Tome of Cryomancy - Overview.png

what we've seen in the streams is that the hero skills listed with a Tome's starting bonus become available for purchase when you acquire the tome, but you still have to choose to allocate a skill point.

(Maybe you decided your leader is going to act like a battle mage or support, and therefore doesn't have any use for Frost Weapons)

[queen prawn]

to your point earlier though, doing 20% more damage to a frozen unit after a charge with a giant hammer would be... satisfying

[chrome timber]

regarding crossbows, the weird thing about them is that their skills emphasize either standing still and hitting hard, or run-and-gun skirmish gameplay. They've got a single-action attack and a full-action "overdraw" version. You said you'd "be constantly on the move", so maybe single-action attacks aren't a big problem? Get a feel for them, I guess.

[chrome timber]

one more thing on champion vs. wizard queen: you're and Ancient Wonders are giving you bonuses, so you have the potential to eat through really fast. Champion's bonus would probably help. Or, if you're playing a wizard queen, you might go easy on the buildings that grant so that your gold income can keep up.

[queen prawn]

Really great point--I hadn't considered how a lot of production means using gold faster. although does it not also mean potentially building more gold-reward structures faster too?

[chrome timber]

If you're a wizard queen and very -focused, that might mean leaving your on generation instead of recruiting units, and using to summon a lot of snow spirits.

[chrome timber]

It does mean you can build your City Structures sooner, yeah. But eventually you have all three of those in your throne city, and your workshop is still looking for stuff to do.

[queen prawn]

this game is amazing. It hasn't even released yet and I'm blown away by how many possibilities we have to contemplate.

[chrome timber]

I suppose there are a lot of fiddly optimizations you can choose from. And, of course, if you can't afford the to put your to use, your makes , just ... probably not as much as you spent to get the in the first place.

Personally, my philosophy is that if I end up with idle or , I overinvested in or . You can probably find other players with contrasting ideas--maybe having a bunch of things built one or two turns sooner is still worth the extra gold investment.

(And, obviously, none of us outside of has actually played the game, so maybe the ideas I developed in past AoWs aren't suitable to AoW4. Take my advice with a grain of salt, or perhaps an entire mine of it.)

[chrome timber]

one more thing about this concept: and have a weird synergy to them, in that City Structures that produce are cheaper if you've got Quarry province improvements--and those grant 5 each. Industrious cultures love Quarries, and very quickly gain access to a super-quarry that magnifies the output of each adjacent quarry.
https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/942532/Builders Quarters.png

[chrome timber]

(Please don't fill a city's provinces with quarries just to max this out. I will weep for all the structure boosts you miss.)

[lusty cloud]

There's also Runecarver Camp from the Tome of Enchantment, a special quarry that gives you +3 income per each adjacent quarry.

[chrome timber]

makes a super-efficient quarry cluster with Builder's Quarters and Runecarver Camp, mutually adjacent to two regular Quarries

immediately runs out of

[lusty cloud]

Well, you could always take Great Builders for that extra income from special improvements 😄

[chrome timber]

it does give 2 per quarry, but it gives special province improvements a 50% discount and I think that means I'm running out of gold faster

I'm really eager to find slick optimizations in city development, particularly in province placement and build order

each special province improvement wipes out an existing province improvement, so I'll be looking for opportunities to, like, get 3 Foresters right away, rush to Estate Hall, and then replace one of the Foresters (of which 3 are no longer needed) with a Mystic Abbey or something

or get 3 Farms right away, rush to Masonic Hall and Mint, and then do the same kind of swap

if you want a city that enables and boosts all structure production (excluding the mutually-exclusive Guilds), you'd need 3 Foresters, 3 Farms, 3 Quarries, a Mine, a Conduit, and a Research Post, implying a city size of at least 12--but the way boosts work, it's not necessary to have all of those at the same time

and when it comes to Guilds, those incentivize specializing province improvements toward one specific purpose, rather than keeping that even spread

[brazen pond]

updated my faction chart a bit

[tepid stag]

my god

its beautiful

https://tenor.com/view/jakethedog-adventure-time-adventuretime-beautiful-gif-7391225

[brazen pond]

cheers

[opal rover]

I think I might start colour- coordinating my faction chart as well. And that's a lot of factions to try or play against

[heady plover]

Jumpin on that faction creation train