pvp-arena

[quick lake]

You would want linked scarlet to actually get hit, so that you have "jackal's feed"

[cold steeple]

Own yea

[quick lake]

Essentially when opponent attacks any jackal linked units, jackal helps the team generates huge burst gen

[cold steeple]

Totally forgot abt that

Lemme try and see if I win

[quick lake]

And scarlet doesnt die because dmg is shared among 3 units, so helps with survivability alot

Should be an easy win!

[cold steeple]

My Emilia died again

[keen vapor]

Can maiden/Emilia/Laplace kill 3 link?

[quick lake]

Means Emilia not invested is she OL-ed

[cold steeple]

Yes but gear not max might be the problem

OL but not lvl 5

[gaunt cypress]

[cold steeple]

No wonder my ICMB sucks

[quick lake]

Okay my bad as well. Didnt expect SAnis missile to be able to kill Emilia

[cold steeple]

It’s okay, thanks for your guidance tho, will definitely invest my Emilia this week

[keen vapor]

That doesn't matter

What about doll

[cold steeple]

Guess I’ll be sitting in Diamond 4 for some days

[quick lake]

I dont think so Maybe if like 4ele 4atk 4cs Laplace & xMaiden maybe

[cold steeple]

Currently investing dolls on defenders like Noah, Jackal, Noise

[quick lake]

I think its more of a team building experience. Alot of ur team are not built the best

[keen vapor]

Emilia doll

[cold steeple]

I always ask for help here

[cold steeple]

Alrighty

[quick lake]

xMaiden burst can insta kill link I think

[keen vapor]

[keen vapor]

Do R15 with blue mats only

Then swap to SR

[cold steeple]

Wait we dont do SR15?

[keen vapor]

Yes... But that's expensive

[cold steeple]

I see, should have done R15 on most important units then only move to Sr15

Thanks for the tips

[keen vapor]

No R15 converts to SR5

[cold steeple]

Yea I know that, only when I have enough resources I might "consider" SR15

[keen vapor]

First hoard

[tropic summit]

the day i'll have tia max dolled i'll be probably already dead anyway

[quick lake]

Investments so far ~100 - 110 rocks and counting, since I started focusing on pvp

[keen vapor]

You guys count the rocks?

[quick lake]

I do, cause I only recently started investing

I stopped counting pve rocks

[keen vapor]

You hoarded 100 rocks? :Crown shocked:

[quick lake]

I think it was just general daily rocks for the past 1-2months+

[tropic summit]

i'm actually not into self-harming

[keen vapor]

Guys, why you two look so similar

Both even knows how to PVP

[quick lake]

Must be cause pvp

[keen vapor]

How I'm going to be able to distinguish you

[tropic summit]

well, we're actually twins separated at birth

[tropic summit]

although i think rheax will hit next rank before i do

so you'll be able to distinguish us again... soon?

[quick lake]

I dont think I've been yapping that much

[wraith stream]

can someone help me with a pvp team? im at some point i cant even stay at top30 even tho i play it reguraly non stop people just too strong

[tropic summit]

noah 404 here, but at least you got materials for something

[wraith stream]

yeah noah is an issue

[tropic summit]

eh you can survive, there's another noah-less and even jackal less warrior among us... cough @swift mango cough

he's somehow staying at challanger

[quick lake]

T1: Scarlet Grave RH xMaiden Jackal (3RL)
T2: Noise Centi Cindy Noir Rapunzel (3RL)
T3: Blanc SAnis Biscuit BSoda MaidPriv (4RL)
@wraith stream

[wraith stream]

double grave?

[quick lake]

oops edited

[wraith stream]

which 2 i need to focus on?

this was my old one

[quick lake]

T1 and T2 are stronger and faster. Can probably OL noise if you want.

[wraith stream]

is there any skill level reqs?

[tropic summit]

T2 is getting padded hard probably

[quick lake]

Can do budget 4/4/7 Noise, with OL. Noise is really good for pvp

[tropic summit]

you need to OL noise s.anis and rapu imo

viper could be replaced with xmaiden for less feed on SG

[quick lake]

Essentially your 3 teams for SPA attack are :
Scarlet-Jackal combo
Cindy Nuke teams
Blanc + SAnis + Biscuit

[wraith stream]

yeah t2 was not even a choice and my sbs team begun to lose and lose

[tropic summit]

yeah SBS team was probably a temporary workaround

[quick lake]

SBS kinda rarer use cases

Usually its a Blanc + SBS stall kinda sitation

[quick lake]

Made some edits @wraith stream

[wraith stream]

welp i was doin the changes while you edited all i saw was xmaiden>drake

[quick lake]

Didnt see Rapunzel, so added her in

[wraith stream]

welp this is it then but i have a problem my cp is 730k while the top10s lowest cp is 1.03m lol

[quick lake]

Are you buying event currency to farm 1-11 hard core dust?

[wraith stream]

welp i was using all my gems to get xgil

problem is not my core dust but im very low on credit

[tropic summit]

another option you can see if it gets better CP

scarlet - grave - rh - tia - jackal
blanc - SBS - rapu - noir - xmaiden
centi - liter - pmaid - anis - alice

[wraith stream]

i had like 30k yesterday of core dust had to open all my boxes

for credit*

let me try that

[quick lake]

Generally advised to use gems to buy attempts to farm 1-11 hard for coredust. You can lose alot of levels if u dont

[tropic summit]

yeah a lot of players not knowing that are bricking themselves

[quick lake]

Can makes ur fellow F2P peers look like dolphins

[wraith stream]

i normally do buy it

but since its limited event and i didnt have currency because of cindy i was waitin for last day

[quick lake]

[wraith stream]

only gets 30k+ cp probably because of my 82k cp liter lol i dont think thats worth no?

[quick lake]

Railtracer's team should also work

[tropic summit]

hmm you're trading a 4RL for a 3.5RL with indom, it depends on your opponents

rheax teams are not weak, but t3 is screaming "scarlet me" and t2 is vulnerable to 3RL

my teams give an edge more being less abusable, but they have both scarlet weakness, it plays on opponent not running a 3RL but a 4RL

just test em out both on a period of 24-48hrs and see which one gives you more defense, rotating them is a good idea

[quick lake]

If the opponents could pvp well, all defence is useless as well

[tropic summit]

yeah, at the end of the day it gets to that

[quick lake]

Trying to craft perfect pvp defence is almost futile thats what I do

[tropic summit]

defense should be more about baiting/laying traps, hence why indom/sustain can work better than your usual direct 3RL

[wraith stream]

i honestly dont know what is 3rl or 4 rl difference i do know its rocket launcher and they are best for bursts but not any further than that lol

[tropic summit]

well essentially a 3RL will burst before a 4RL

a 3.5RL will be on B2 ahead of a 4RL (e.g. you at least reach indom)

let's assume a equal scarlet team, a 2RL scarlet may kill a 3RL scarlet

simply because you'll be doing full burst against them not even hitting b1

hence why most matches are generally already decided by the timing at which you reach burst

keep in mind there are also strong 2RL variations

which are used to beat 3RL

[wraith stream]

hows that work tho how 2rl makes better burst energy than 3rls so you can kill the scarlet

[quick lake]

https://www.prydwen.gg/nikke/guides/pvp-mechanics/

Can look at pins as well for more pvp knowledge

[wraith stream]

because not all RL can hit aoe or smth because they are in corners

[tropic summit]

yeah just take a 5-10 min read on pvp mechanics and you'll understand, it's based on nikke positioning and how the arena match goes

[quick lake]

2RL, 3RL etc are team speeds. ie when 2 rocket fires, u start to burst, when 3 rocket fire, u start to burst etc

Not necessarily number of RL units in ur team

pvp has alot of terms and jargon. Needa slowly read and learn

[tropic summit]

to give you an example of a 2RL that could win against a 3RL indom scarlet

in your case as SBS has higher CP she can be used instead

(notice how gen provided by SBS, non clip RL, is lower than gen provided by xmaiden, clip SG burst type)

although both are reaching 2RL thanks to the 2 clip RL jackal and anis

but ye getting familiar with the mechanics is gonna allow you to mess around better with these things

[wraith stream]

yeah i will read that guide but lastly how will i know to change my teams to attack and be sure that i can win agaisnt that team?

also for the normal arena what is the best i can do since thats 1 team

[tropic summit]

rookie arena defense is very trivial, against a skilled opponent you should lose

although you can boost your chances with 2RL teams

in your case you could just go 2RL cind

[quick lake]

Rookie kinda useless

[thorn pagoda]

@umbral crown this was a close one. i'll start using the formation you suggested soon. is Jackal the reason #1 is bursting almost instantly?

[quick lake]

Avoid Noah team for now I guess

[wraith stream]

noah teams are direct counter to scarlet right?

[tropic summit]

a 3RL noah will counter a 3RL and 2.5RL scarlet

[quick lake]

Generally. Noah's shield can block Cindy/Scarlet Nukes. So the counter to Noah is generally to burst faster before her shield, or in some situations, burst way slower after shield is down

[tropic summit]

if they running biscuit, you still could be in trouble even with a 2RL

[wraith stream]

then its time to 1RL

[tropic summit]

@wraith stream

for rookie, pick one of these 2 teams (if CP is way higher on second team, go with that)

[quick lake]

Yes, ur crown and Naga gave a lot of jackal feed

[tropic summit]

1RL would require you to have rosanna and go with sacc, you don't have that setup (also require huge CP advantage, due to throwing a unit)

[wraith stream]

welp i thoguht 1rl was not a thing but noted lol

[tropic summit]

it's doable... just very peculiar to pull it off

[thorn pagoda]

the only reason #1 can stay at 1st place is due to his Jackal team. if only i had Jackal lol

[quick lake]

They're ways to go around it. Just need to have and build some key units

[wraith stream]

i just realised that this one doesnt have noise so is there any units that need investment on skills? also should i just try to OL them?

prio them*

[thorn pagoda]

tbh Modernia* actually kicks a­s­s in pvp

[tropic summit]

situational 1RL due to cindy in p1 (decoy)

[thorn pagoda]

so that's what Jackal's burst rate looks like lmao

[tropic summit]

once and if you find noah, i'd then put noise to use in the god lineup (noah noise biscuit s.anis rapu)

[thorn pagoda]

THIS is how you beat Noah/Biscuit teams without Noah

[tropic summit]

nah, that's actually situational, at best you can aim for 2RL, 1RL is very unrealistic

you'll see ppl pull it off only maybe when you're past high sync levels... 400+ (with rosanna and sacc)

[quick lake]

1RL is meme at this point

[wraith stream]

welp thank u then for the helps ig ill try the 2 comps and see which is better for my server

[tropic summit]

yeah no problem, go get em. On defense rotate between the two, on attack use scarlet one wherever opponent is running MG/SG/SMG/ARs, as for your other 3RL burst on any non-noah teams should do fine

[coarse lake]

no

1rl with rosa sac isn't happening

1rl requires enemy to have dumb cindy positioning

[keen vapor]

Is so easy now

[cedar orbit]

people created a crazy elevator in SA

[tropic summit]

oh thought it might've been possible with a unit dying instantly, i guess that's still 2RL my bad 🤔

[tropic summit]

odds are said person learns the lesson rather fast though, this lad just forgot their rookie like that

[keen vapor]

[swift mango]

I think you could have 1 RL with Rosa.

Just use 4 clip RL, 2 at level 1 to die in 1 shot and ta-da 1 RL Rosa.

But what would you use such a team for though.

[coarse lake]

still not enough

each sac is 36.54 for rosa

well...

[swift mango]

2 sarc is 73%. 1 round is already 50%>.
That's 123+% already

Idk if you could remove Rumani for Cindy though.

There is also problem of keeping the p1-2 alive until they shot

[coarse lake]

yeah it's possible, but you would never run any comp that makes it possible

bc you either cp diff them with regular teams by a lot, or you already cp diff them a lot so you can kill their units

either way a regular team wins easily without even trying

either way you have huge cp advantage over them with a typical team

that's just the problem with rosa overall tbh

works best the more cp and sync advantage you got

once you're out-synced and close to cp diff, rosa value falls hard, you can't 1 shot their dps anymore, you can't run a sac or no unit

[tropic summit]

damn that's demotivating for building rosa then

[keen vapor]

Surely CA arena synch limit

[quick pivot]

Still going strong

[coarse lake]

CA sync lock gonna be an issue actually

harder to tell who has more atk than who

[keen vapor]

I give you too much power

[coarse lake]

you can't trust the current atk they got, that'll get scaled, but doll stuff won't scale

so someone that has more atk rn might have less atk when sync locked

they'll have to update the UI to let us see the sync locked stats before a fight

[keen vapor]

The new tool it was planned from the start

[coarse lake]

nah

[keen vapor]

Nikke lab coming soon

[coarse lake]

knowing them, new tool has nothing to do with pvp

[keen vapor]

[eager mountain]

slippery lil bastards finally at me

[swift mango]

You can sarc if you got CP diff though, no need to lv1 units, they would die even with full lv and ol

[coarse lake]

if you got cp diffed you wouldn't win the fight

very niche cases where a cp diffed rosa team can actually win

usually means their team has no sustain or poorly built dps

esp if you got cp diffed hard enough for regular units to die in 1rl

[twilit arrow]

What roster would beat this team besides higher CP?

[eager mountain]

any 3rl nuke with noah or buffer, this team is like 4rl and is really bad

[limber patrol]

same team with Noah and/or Centi? instead of Rapunzel/Crown

[twilit arrow]

tyty

[cedar orbit]

you guys know this just as well as I do that the answer is 2RL Cinderella

[eager mountain]

if hes asking for that, chances are he dont have 2rl cindy team

[swift mango]

You need a strong enough nuke to nuke their Crown without triggering Biscuit.

Otherwise you could just use a stall team with Noah+Biscuit and win the long fight.

[cedar orbit]

it's more likely to have a 2RL Cindy team than it is to have Noah

[keen vapor]

[swift mango]

2rl Cindy could trigger Biscuit on the first round of her 10 hits. And left opponent Team with Jackal+Cindy+Crown if their Cindy isn't strong enough.

He could add RH+Blanc and burst with 3RL Cindy instead if he wants a sure win

[eager mountain]

nvm thought that was a reply

[fickle shale]

what are some of the meta teams in SP arena rn?

[swift mango]

Scarlet, Cindy, S.Anis

[swift mango]

I think it's the other way around for exactly 2.5 RL scarlet vs exactly 3 rl Noah. As Scarlet would just wipe.

[tropic summit]

oh seems like you're right 🤔

at least on the estimates, any slight less than 2.5RL could be messy

[whole pawn]

@kindred tinsel @tropic summit so apparently both of u asked me to show my roster, so here it is

[tropic summit]

hmm i already see 2 things you should be doing, add centi and rumani into synchro, as those are 2 very good batteries you don't want to miss out on

as for the rest, we can work on teams with the following:

rh
liter
grave
alice
sbs
cindy
blanc
tia
xmaiden
pmaid
jackal
bsoda
biscuit
anis
moran

lemme know if you can put them in sync then we can work with those

[whole pawn]

IG I have to remove smt then

[tropic summit]

got anything you don't need for pve/raids?

[whole pawn]

or do I buy places?

[tropic summit]

well if you can afford not to, is probably for the best, although i bought 2 slots myself during the past 9 months

that's still 1k gems

[whole pawn]

I already bought one place using gems

[whole pawn]

I have them all on syncro

I gotta wait 4 h to add rumani and centi

[tropic summit]

oke doke

then i'll make teams based on the assumption you got those in synchro

[grand pasture]

Trying to focus on PvP side, how would one clear this team? tried switching Centi w blanc, but I just get nuked.

I assume for now I just gotta build Scarlet/centi/Rumani for further progress

[whole pawn]

thank you, I just suck at this, the least I can focus about is my main teams, but in the long term I have to know how to manage pvp, on which I have no clue

[tropic summit]

eh no worries, you'll improve for sure

almost done was helping azu

[vapid lake]

Railtracer-senpai will guide u

[tropic summit]

T1: xmaiden liter grave biscuit anis - 3RL p1 killer oriented
T2: rumani blanc cind centi tia - 3RL aoe nuke oriented
T3: sbs alice rh bsoda jackal 3.5 RL without quantum, 3RL with 2 quantum lvl 7 - sbs: distributed dmg whole team, alice: single target oriented

if CP isn't too impacted, T3 can become this:

jackal pmaid rh bsoda sbs - 3RL, aoe nuke oriented (stronger than former T3, although care on CP loss)

cubes:

vigor on biscuit, blanc
quantum on jackal bsoda, optional on anis and centi
temperance on rumani, tia

for T3, check who is your 2 highest atk%, depending on whether alice or sbs are the 3rd highest atk%, you can invert them in p1 and p2

[tropic summit]

you can try with a 3RL cindy nuke, although if you wanna run it even safer you could go with a 2.5RL cindy nuke

(the feed on jackal in p1 will launch you into a 2.5RL instead of 3RL)

[quartz prawn]

this is probably a loss right?
noise no OL so I think she will get one shot
no noah.

[cedar orbit]

Scarlet and Blanc feed him enough so that his team is 2RL

[tropic summit]

not sure if enough for 2RL, but def. 2.5

that'd be more than he needs anyway against 4RL

[cedar orbit]

he gets fed 17.75 energy

50 bullet hit Noise, 3.55 energy/10 bullets

[tropic summit]

got biscuit?

[tropic summit]

yeah you convinced me, that may aswell be 2RL

[whole pawn]

btw, when you mentioned anis, ur talking about sanis or normal anis?

[quartz prawn]

yes can try. cp good

[tropic summit]

normal anis, she's a clip RL battery

[tropic summit]

ok with biscuit it ensures your p1 lives, so no more doubt in bursting

as long as your cind is invested, you should wipe

[cedar orbit]

Blanc invuln will go off in time tho, so he will eat the Scarlet ult

[grand pasture]

guess I gotta invest in Cindy more?, followed the 3RL and couldn't nuke. I'm at 196kcp w 2.5RL so that's out for now prob

[quartz prawn]

i got rekt

[tropic summit]

what's your cindy in terms of OL investiment?

[quartz prawn]

cinderella burst went off but the first couple hits got immune i think and their scarlet wiped

[whole pawn]

ok, I took notes ,ty for help

[tropic summit]

yeah indom kicked in

guess you could go for 2RL cind afterall

[keen vapor]

Scarlet burst always faster

[quartz prawn]

10/7/9 2atk 0 ammo. need to find more ammo

[keen vapor]

Immune comes from biscuit skill

[umbral crown]

Si, crown,Naga and moran were feeding her through scar jack link

[grand pasture]

Is Bay worth some investment for SP arena?

[tropic summit]

how CP look like with this one instead?

[thorn pagoda]

how do you prevent feeding Jackal?

[quartz prawn]

no rumani

[keen vapor]

Not using weapons but rocket launchers

[thorn pagoda]

have to try that soon

[tropic summit]

hmm how about this one?

although i didn't want to use a SG, maybe you got laplace+? (or emilia or xmaiden)

[swift mango]

Not watching but I'm 99% sure it's 3rl vs 3rl and you lost lol....

[cedar orbit]

to be fair enemy team has no business being 3rl

[quartz prawn]

too much cp gap

[tropic summit]

on any of these 3?

[quartz prawn]

seems like it

[swift mango]

Just watched.

Not 3RL but around 0.1-0.2 RL slower as you could see their Scarlet slash on his full burst.

Very possible with CS on Jackal.

[quartz prawn]

nope, guess i ignore him till i invest more
can only do middle team but cp gap

[tropic summit]

aww shame, but ye if you hit rumani or invest on xmaiden/laplace+ you got 1 more card to play

alternatively to survive scarlet for 10s of indom 🤔

[cedar orbit]

the CS on RLs cope is real

[quartz prawn]

ty for helping ^^
If i get noah as well, what speed does noah team need to counter scarlet teams?

[swift mango]

One of the guy in my rookie has a similar team to this.

[tropic summit]

as long as you're same speed generally

[swift mango]

Just CS investment

Or being lucky with OL

[quartz prawn]

oh got it, thx

[tropic summit]

no worries, just scar jack feed things it was close

[grand pasture]

Are these ok for SP? well squad 2 and 3(Tried to stay within 3RL), 1 is uh idk.

[cedar orbit]

Enemy RH shot her 4th shot at the same time as Jackal, enemy RH has less charge speed than ally RH, most likely Jackal has around 5% CS

[tropic summit]

not a fan of RH and alice B3s, as they can get easily stuck on p1 taunters or p1 indom/invulnrb.

maybe you could consider switching to an aoe B3 nuker or a stall team

albeit T1 is stalling, but a bit too slow

whole team could get wiped by 3RL scarlet

[grand pasture]

yeah Team 1 I just kinda threw together randomly

I thought bay can kinda help against scarlet?

[tropic summit]

biscuit on the T3 for example is a bit wasted, could serve better on T1 or t2

blanc and cindy is generally also a bit of a waste, as cindy doesn't need buffs if invested

[tropic summit]

yes she does, but she needs to hit burst

[cedar orbit]

enemy team reached full charge here, because RH's bullet has no travel time

[tropic summit]

@keen vapor btw i joined the mica club

[swift mango]

Is this replying to my comment? Red has her skill 1 to give her more charge speed the more she shoots. At around 0% charge speed she should already shoot faster than Jackal 5% charge speed on the 4th shot.

[rustic sandal]

@swift mango that mf dident drop yet while I dropped

[cedar orbit]

I know how to average charge speed and I'm not here to spew nonsense like CS every time something doesn't add up

[swift mango]

Should we get a calculator out then

[swift mango]

And you could see in the video, Chanhyuk RH shoot her 4RL right at burst 1, meaning it's no reason to bring Ally RH as an argument.

[cedar orbit]

That one was brought up because ally RH was shooting faster, meaning enemy RH has less CS, likely 0

[swift mango]

Their Jackal was firing her 4th shoots right before entering B2. This is enough to explain.

@cedar orbit

You can just zoom in and count Jackal shoots with your eyes.

[cedar orbit]

the rocket has a travel time, if you had paid attention, the 4th RH shot is enough to fully charge

[swift mango]

It's easy to do so

[cedar orbit]

meaning CS on Jackal is a useless argument

[tropic summit]

🤔

[slender mesa]

what would I could use to attack this team? (rookie arena)

[swift mango]

Yes. And in this case it make the team 1 busrt phase slower

Not at exact burst phase. Or half

Enough to catch Cindy burst

With Blanc,

[cedar orbit]

idk what's the point of argument, the team was losing anyways

[swift mango]

The point was I said it's charge speed but you disagreed and tried to say otherwise

[tropic summit]

i'd personally use noah noise biscuit s.anis laplace+

or you can

3RL emi nuke
2RL cindy nuke

[cedar orbit]

I just explained how it's Red Hood's CS skill

if you averaged out RH's extra charge speed, it would result in a 5.7% CS on Jackal

[slender mesa]

your first comp worked !

[tropic summit]

nice

[swift mango]

It's around 15-20%. That's the CS need for that team to happen. Around 3-4 tier 11 Charge speed so he used zero rock to reroll if lucky.

Ally RH, on the other hand only needs around 10-15% CS for that.

So around 2-3 lucky t11 line

[cedar orbit]

enemy RH has no CS, it means Jackal has around 5.8%, end of story. Jackal's 4th rocket hits here, B2 already went off, so it's around 3.8 RL.

in the end it really doesn't change anything, it's just RH being an SR with built in CS is much more impactful than saying random CS on RLs

[tropic summit]

btw Blood do you've the calculator that takes in also jackal feed? i can't find anymore

[swift mango]

How do you know that? You jacked his account?

[cedar orbit]

enemy RH, Centi, ally Jackal shoot their 1st shot at the same time

[swift mango]

Well the difference for the first shoot is minimal my 15% Centi look almost identical to my 0% Rumani as well.

[grand pasture]

Does this look somewhat better? Scarlet switches with Alice when I build her later. Also thinking if Blanc and Biscuit should switch.

[cedar orbit]

I do not wish to feed the troll anymore

[swift mango]

It's personal experience

[slender mesa]

so basically we always want higher burst gen than the other team?

[tropic summit]

hmm post your box, let's see if you can get a bit better B3s

[tropic summit]

a 2RL, on normal scenarios, should hit burst before a 3RL, which may cause you to win the match, but it's not always the case (some teams have biscuit and jackal that can add conditions)

[swift mango]

Try gatrix calculator... He just updated it with Jackal feed of the team.

[tropic summit]

oh ok cheers gonna take a look

[vapid lake]

maybe i should run privaty nuke team in pvp

[swift mango]

In the case that you mentioned bullet travel time. This is certainly the case. And even then it only makes their team better because their P5 Jackal would shot to P1 Centi the fastest.

Idk how faster it is but still a little tiny bit faster.

[glacial palm]

Jackal

[tropic summit]

privaty carried my 50-160 synch level PvP era, good times

[swift mango]

An improvement alright

[glacial palm]

waged a war in my bracket, its working

[swift mango]

I wish my Cindy and Moran could get black line DEF like this.

[cedar orbit]

Generally speaking CS on sniper rifles seem to be much more impactful than RL if you are only 5ish energy off from the next tier.

[tropic summit]

taking a look

[cedar orbit]

but you know, the whole thing might just be cope since you can clearly see when RH's B1 goes off and both teams had it go off the same time

[glacial palm]

@vapid lake i actually wanted the 7th place

so everything is according to plan

[tropic summit]

oh order them by strength please, so i can tell investiment

[glacial palm]

tf is this guy cooking??

[cedar orbit]

Can you tell people to just stop gemming?

[swift mango]

You see Scarlet slash at the "full burst" letters. That indicates the opponent team was at like 0.1-0.3RL slower. I got this shit happened to me too many times already

[glacial palm]

whale bracket, cant

also, can i beat his team 1?

[vapid lake]

u wanted spot 7?

i thought u were comfortably holding 5

[grand pasture]

Asuka is at the top and goes down from there sry if I took bad screenshots

[tropic summit]

oh ok i thought so, thanks

[tropic summit]

that's a 2RL scarlettino

[glacial palm]

decoy tactic

[glacial palm]

how about now?

whats the counter for this?

[cedar orbit]

I think they are the exact same speed, look at RH, this 1 frame is before their B1's effect went online, the 2nd pic is 1 frame after, both chars have the effect

[tropic summit]

i countered 2RL scarlet with noise noah sbs anis centi

[glacial palm]

ok got it

[swift mango]

If they are the same speed, the opposite Scarlet will Slash before the "full burst" appears.

You could try to use a Scarlet slash yourselves and you would know.

[cedar orbit]

I just realised Centi's burst takes like 5 years to land

[glacial palm]

scarlet too stacked

done, repositioned pepper

[tropic summit]

awesome good job

[swift mango]

The slash happened after full burst letters too.

So I'm confident it's around 0.4 RL slower. So their Jackal should have 3 t11 CS line at around 15% CS.

This Blanc shouldn't catch a Scarlet Nuke but since Cindy has a small delay while his Scarlet is linked and p2, Blanc was able to catch Cindy somehow.

[cedar orbit]

I think one easy evidence is that Blanc's healing goes off here, Centi's B2 was pressed around 9.61 and 9.56 on the burst timer

so at most 0.14 seconds between the two teams

0.07 RL

[swift mango]

That's 0.1 RL at least. One RL isn't 2s

[swift mango]

How do you count 0.14 second though?

[cedar orbit]

the burst timer on the right

burst is pressed between 9.61 and 9.58

anyways, the Jackal CS is gigacopium and I don't believe it's worth addressing

[tropic summit]

noise bay cind anis centi - 3RL
blanc sbs biscuit noir rumani - 3RL
scarlet grave rh xmaiden jackal - 3RL

cubes:

vigor on blanc, biscuit
quantum on jackal, anis, centi, rumani
vigor (or temperance if higher lvl) on noise
temperance on bay

note:

put anis in synchro if not already

[cedar orbit]

it would be nice finding an explanation how the enemy team managed to be 3RL, but I think we are extremely far from even having that argument

[swift mango]

Anyway, you could see they started healing after the ally team entered B3. So 0.3-0.4 RL slower isn't impossible.

[cedar orbit]

No, I can't see

All I can see is the ally B2 was pressed between 9.61 and 9.58 on the timer left and enemy Blanc's healing showed up at 9.47 on the timer left

making 0.3-0.4 RL impossible

unless you have an argument of Blanc healing before her burst

[cedar orbit]

maybe the game sees into the future and knows that in 0.5RL you would press

[grand pasture]

is T3 scarlet burst?

[swift mango]

It's like 0.3-0.4 slower in my experience. Not 0.5.

[cedar orbit]

I mean, that's just nonsense

[tropic summit]

yep, scarlet in p1 linked with jackal

[cedar orbit]

the 1st frame Blanc's healing appeared was at 9.47 on the timer, you are being contrary for the sake of being contrary

[swift mango]

Well, idk... But still a little bit slower if you want to press it. 0.2 RL slower then.

Could happen with 20%CS or 10-15% if fast bullet flying speed between p5 to matters.

[cedar orbit]

We established that burst gets pressed between 9.61 and 9.58 on the timer

he is dead here

9.49 on the timer

[grand pasture]

Oki tyty for helping T vT, just read the Pvp pinned stuff yesterday and my brain is too small for now

[cedar orbit]

meaning that at most 0.12 seconds between the two teams

[tropic summit]

haha no worries, i think with those 3 teams you are likely at your best atm, once you find noah we could revise one of them

[swift mango]

Okay so 0.1RL slower then. Make no sense when Scarlet slash after "full burst" letter ends though.

[tropic summit]

to give you an idea, this is how i distributed based on investiment aswell

alice 3
liter
sbs 2
noise 1
cind 1
rh 3
blanc 2
tia
centi 1
rumani 2
noir 2
pmaid
scarlet 3
jackal 3
xmaiden 3
bay 1
biscuit 2
grave 3
ein
bsoda
moran
viper
anis 1

(some i revised afteward, like Bay)

[cedar orbit]

yes, so no amount of CS can explain why the enemy team is so fast

[swift mango]

Scarlet will Slash before full burst letters. At same RL speed. And slash right at middle "Full burst" letter at 0.1-0.2rl slower. Slash after "full burst" disappear at 0.1 RL slower is just weird. But okay. My bad.

[cedar orbit]

I accept your apology

[tropic summit]

so wait, that 4RL shouldn't have been 3RL? 🤔

or blood just got tired of typing

[cedar orbit]

enemy team was around 3.06 RL

[tropic summit]

wew

maybe i should consider running calculations with jackal feed counted afterall if this scenario happens more often 🤔

although damn it was 5 "non feeding" nikke

[cedar orbit]

even with Jackal feed, enemy team shouldn't have gotten enough burst

[tropic summit]

yeah seemed strange afterall

[cedar orbit]

you know what

Ally's RH's 4th hit hits right after 3RL and her 4th shot is exactly the 10th hit feed into Jackal at around 3.06RL

but I still don't know how that ends up giving 100 energy to the enemy team

nvm, I'm coping

13th hit

[keen vapor]

[cedar orbit]

hmmm, however, RH's 4th hit gets countered by Scarlet

Ok, so we have this. We have Jackal feed, that's extra 3,71543 energy, we have Scarlet countering 3 times, that's 1,35 energy, we have Scarlet and Blanc landing 2 extra shots in 0,08 RL, that's 1,53495 energy

100.24462 energy total when Scarlet and Blanc land their 2nd shot after 3 RL

[quick lake]

Must be scarlet 30% RNG

Commcord pvp had a similiar occurrence where some 4RL dude bursted 0.5RL faster to due scarlet rng

[umbral crown]

Avoid using SG,SMG and MG against scar jack unless you use an invested rosanna

[kindred tinsel]

finally my time has come

looks like bait though

ahh we'll take it unbricked now

[cedar orbit]

That's just cruel

Bro forgot about his pvp def team

[kindred tinsel]

if thats true wish auto team could take me this far

[unique wagon]

RH is useless.

You could have easily won but chose the hard way or rather unnecessarily hard way.

[quartz prawn]

RH is cp pad. she is more than x3 cp compared to centi, biscuit, jackal.
enemy team cp 267k vs my cp 242k

[keen vapor]

Low investment

[quartz prawn]

[keen vapor]

1 rock

[quartz prawn]

i take that as a win

[quartz prawn]

OL noise or moran first?

[keen vapor]

Moran

[swift mango]

Add both your team and enemy team to calculator. Get your feed value then add to their team. See if it get to higher speed than you before you hit attack button.

This is tedious so just avoid it altogether.

By just using rocket and Sr if you were lazy.

[swift mango]

1 rock is all you need.

Just get Ele, atK and another line in one shot. Then flex your rock reserve.

[quick lake]

Noise

[quartz prawn]

is echo leading me astray

[swift mango]

SSR rapi

[swift mango]

Well if you are fight someone higher level or just having strong normal attack, Moran can help you survive until burst, Noise can't

[quick lake]

If SSR Rapi not pvp good, i might not OL her

Noise can go with ScarJack or cindy, pretty versatile too

[swift mango]

In before powercreeping both Liter and RH for b1.

[swift mango]

Noise with scarlet+Jackal? Who is the B2?

And Jackal is the reason you survive not noise

[quick lake]

Noise Scar Noah Rapun Jackal, pretty comfy god comp

Definitely counter-able, but quite comfy

[swift mango]

That's SBS

[quick lake]

Scarlet/SAnis works too

[swift mango]

Scarlet doesn't do enough dmg unless you fight someone much without defense at all and can't even wipe you.

About useless for defense.

[umbral crown]

@keen vapor fear me, 301

[quick lake]

Yeah agree. Not enough buffers. Usually you stall enough time to just finish them off with normal attacks

[umbral crown]

[swift mango]

Okay, Scarlet have her counter so could hit everyone with luck.

Nvm.

[keen vapor]

No

[umbral crown]

Si

[solid flare]

so between 2 RL speed Cindy and Scarlet team, which one are we targeting in defence?

meta defence seems cooked because you just sacrifice to either one on attacks and noah counter the other (both teams on attack beat idom teams speed)

[grizzled bone]

you can block Cindy with Noah if you get the timing right

Scarlet is paired with Jackal usually so there's options there already to counter

[quick lake]

Could do a 4RL Blanc + Defender Biscuit Cindy for the 2RL Cindy counter

Dont always have to burst faster to win

[rustic sandal]

@swift mango you rmb what team we settled on yesterday? that guy dropped

@swift mango we did it

[torn briar]

@keen vapor losege

[keen vapor]

Who told you to use for attack

[strong hull]

[keen vapor]

Attack obviously depends on the target!!!

[keen vapor]

What I give to you was defense defense!

[strong hull]

Remember the dude you build def team for him?

He used it for attack

[keen vapor]

They're not using my dishes correctly

[strong hull]

Yea you said attack depend on which team against

He just ignored it

And use that team to attack

[keen vapor]

Actually I checked and didn't said it that time

[strong hull]

In team building yesterday the one i bing chilling you

[keen vapor]

But asking "hey, how I do defeat this guy" should be way more intuitive than "hey, surely there exist a trio of attack teams who work for everything "

https://tenor.com/view/anime-bocchi-hitoribocchi-cute-crying-gif-10627827313899141501

:hu tao why:

[keen vapor]

You know I actually wish I got more attack request than I get for defense

[strong hull]

Then build me one

[keen vapor]

I need the target defense for it

[strong hull]

No.

Get it done.

[keen vapor]

[strong hull]

🫵

Actually yea ill pic it

Wait some sec

[junior mesa]

how good is icemaiden for pvp?

[keen vapor]

She has good burst generation and inflicts high pressure against opposite P1

[keen vapor]

You aren't thinking on mileaging her, right?

[junior mesa]

no jus using her for my 3rd pvp team?

[keen vapor]

That's fine ig

[torn briar]

any attack team brotha that i can try to PUSH my RANK

[keen vapor]

Send target's defense

[strong hull]

back to business echocho san

my 4Rl team burst first but still lose

[keen vapor]

Huh? That should work just fine

[vapid lake]

good luck teaching that guy how to attack echo

What bro wants is teams that work against everything

[keen vapor]

[vapid lake]

it don't exist

[strong hull]

That right

[keen vapor]

Auto and hope for the best smh

[keen vapor]

Oh right, where are your overloads on that team?

[strong hull]

Only cinderella

[keen vapor]

Why you don't invest

[strong hull]

Im investing jackal rn

[keen vapor]

Invest everyone

[keen vapor]

Nothing can be done if you lack the firepower

[strong hull]

[keen vapor]

Does biscuit die before Noah?

[strong hull]

No

Immune triggered

But somehow cinderella burst cant nuke the team

[vapid lake]

burst lvl not 10?

[strong hull]

Full 10

Lv15 sr

[quick lake]

Severe deficit

[vapid lake]

Then deficit?

[quick lake]

231k vs 150k

[keen vapor]

This is on 35% deficit

I'm even surprised it can do any damage at all

Check pins

[vapid lake]

O it above, 231k vs 154k U not winning that

[strong hull]

[vapid lake]

U suffering like -60% stat penalty

OL ur pvp units

[keen vapor]

You're the culprit

[vapid lake]

Pvp magic number is 15.4% for no stat penalty once u go past that u immediately suffer -20% stats and the increase is linear

[keen vapor]

And spiky

[strong hull]

alr

[vapid lake]

ma dont know about pvp cp deficit mechanics

[strong hull]

[keen vapor]

He will spread misinfo

[strong hull]

Cooking SR too much ig

[keen vapor]

You should have seen Ryo this morning

He was recommending RH indom against Noah biscuit

[vapid lake]

U burn the sr kitchen too with ur flora bias

[strong hull]

That not me

Trust

[vapid lake]

Very funny rh against biscuit

[keen vapor]

PVP is very unknown territory for the average citizen

[vapid lake]

Shooting invul target for 10 seconds

[strong hull]

He just remember wrong burst prio between xmaiden and mari eva

[swift mango]

You did it!!! Yeah, I shouldn't have overthinked it after all. The very first change to RH P2 worked. I feel like a clown but 🎉 congrats

[rustic sandal]

[swift mango]

How is your XMica MLB quest going on?

[swift mango]

The day I need to open my gold boxes has finally come. I haven't needed to do that after level 201 to now.

[quick lake]

Just the beginning

[swift mango]

Future is bleached

[quick lake]

U run out of credit boxes at 481+. Still far

[swift mango]

Thanks for the estimation

Iris might disagree with u but I will take it.

[grizzled bone]

[grizzled bone]

I think its earlier than that personally

[vapid lake]

wat

Hes an ma

[quick lake]

Possibly, depends on individual as well. Im at 481 and only ~8 level of credit boxes left

Maybe it wasnt the best idea to convert battle data into core dust

[swift mango]

Personally

[grizzled bone]

Oh, other MA

[ionic hedge]

should Drunk Scarlet P1 use bastion or tempering cube?

[grizzled bone]

Yeah it will depend on the account but generally I think you start feeling the squeeze on credits more around 381.

The extra 1000 to level starting from 351 adds up

[grizzled bone]

Yeah the battle data conversion is kind of a bad deal. It was only good for converting the excess you would never get through/use

[swift mango]

Either is fine. Tempering if high enough level could help her surviving more but just put the highest lvel cube on her.

[grizzled bone]

But not putting a limit on it let's SU make you feel pressure to buy from cash shop

[grizzled bone]

Like Blood said but I doubt you have a high enough tempura cube to be comparable to your bastion

[ionic hedge]

yea that's true, lv.7 compared to lv.4

[grizzled bone]

Even then bastion is after OLing your gear

PvP gang, I wish you all happy holidays, great feasting and well earned rest

[swift mango]

Tempering should be usable starting lv5.

[grizzled bone]

I'm very proud of everyone here

[ionic hedge]

ty ❤️

[swift mango]

@cedar orbit

I just tested and do a video 2 exacted 3rl team that had no variant of CS or Feed difference. My team is without any CS. And their team also without or it would be much faster.

You could see Opponent Scarlet slash right before "full burst" appeared.

And "full burst" lasted for around 0.4-0.5 sec if you counted the timer. If opponent Scarlet started after "full burst" disappeared then it should be around (0.5 sec) or 0.4RL slower.

This matched with what you said about opponent Jackal hitting at end of B1.

About Blanc, it could be she heal at begin of B2 as soon as she is picked, not after the b2 image moved out, that's 0.32rl difference already.

[cedar orbit]

You can see Crown's burst going off at 9.74 on your burst timer, Crown's burst sohuld be pretty much instant. Scarlet's burst goes off at 9.65 on your burst timer, meaning that Scarlet's burst should have a very small amount of delay

only 0.1 RL difference between the two teams

everything else is just ignorance

(Enemy Scarlet's burst goes off when Bay's cover disappears)

[swift mango]

Crown burst goes off at FULL burst timer. Their team is exactly 3rl, not slower.

Scarlet goes off at the end of b3

[cedar orbit]

It's just your eyesight

[swift mango]

Idk what you are smoking but I will just leave it at that.

[swift mango]

You forget about crown s1. Which is what you are talking about that goes off after Scarlet.

[cedar orbit]

enemy team is shielded at 9.74 on your B2 burst timer

use your eyes

Scarlet's burst animation is delayed, the actual hit is sped up

that's how it works in pvp

[swift mango]

Scarlet burst started at right before "full burst" its animation last into "full burst" screen but it's just visual effects. Use your eyes.

[cedar orbit]

Scarlet's burst went off when Bay's cover disappeared

[swift mango]

Then that is the same shield

[cedar orbit]

yes, enemy team had their B2 go off before your B2 at 9.74 on your time

enemy team was 0.14ish sec faster

[swift mango]

And it exactly one millisecond before full bursy

[cedar orbit]

no, I know you do lack some knowledge, but you don't go to full burst at B2

[swift mango]

Your eyes are just bad

This is before full burst appeared

[cedar orbit]

those are lingering numbers again

[swift mango]

The blue are dmg one cover

[cedar orbit]

this is the moment Scarlet hits

[swift mango]

So what? It's exactly 3rl the same speed

[cedar orbit]

enemy Scarlet hits 0.05 seconds before your B3

[swift mango]

You just screenshot a millisecond. Faster

[cedar orbit]

it's not a milisecond

[swift mango]

No shit it's not. And your screenshot is wrong. Scarlet burst all hit the bay cover, not 3 cover at same time.

[swift mango]

See the huge dmg on this pic

[cedar orbit]

I mean, you don't even know that the smallest increment shown on the timer is called a centisecond

[swift mango]

This is dmg of Scarlet slash.

Nothing else deal this much dmg on cover

[cedar orbit]

Yes, but what you screenshoted was the lingering damage number that happened like 0.3 seconds later

you can see the instant Bay's cover got nuked

[swift mango]

You are just stuck up here. I just called mili second for the shake of it. Ofc it's not 0.001s

[cedar orbit]

Sorry, you can't see it

[swift mango]

Speak for yourselves

[cedar orbit]

anyone who cares sees that Bay's cover got nuked between 09.69 and 09.65

[swift mango]

Because number can lingering but not burst icon.

Because you screenshot without any dmg is when Scarlet slash. Not my with actual dmg.

[cedar orbit]

look at the UI, you keep bringing up a number that lingers on the screen for half a second

[swift mango]

Yeah you are absolutely right Mr. I perfect

[cedar orbit]

It's not that I'm perfect, but that you are always wrong

[swift mango]

You are the one who is wrong

[quick lake]

@swift mango stepup selector

[cedar orbit]

Bay clearly has no cover on my screenshot, meaning that her cover couldn't get hit anymore

[brittle hill]

Zamn, Drake treasure is something we might have to look into

[cedar orbit]

I think you being 0.14 seconds slower can be explained by Noah being hitscan and Jackal having CS

[swift mango]

You could clearly hear, SBS got select before Bay cover burst. This is not even 0.1 RL before your screenshot and mine

[cedar orbit]

No.

[swift mango]

SBS in your image could be just linger image

[cedar orbit]

you can't explain how Bay's cover got blown up then

it's the evidence that holds you

and your madness

[swift mango]

The cover got blown up before dmg got shown. Just like the icon need time to disappeared and Scarlet slash needed time to show up

It's not even 0.1RL all in all. Doesn't change a thing.

[brittle hill]

And Rapi RH was revealed to be an ATK buffer

[swift mango]

When the "full burst" image last for whole half a second

[cedar orbit]

oh, so now you say that there is a delay before the cover gets destroyed on the UI, completely oblivious the fact that would result in an even faster Scarlet burst

even the base of the argument if wrong

you keep ignoring everything

[swift mango]

I said, there is NO delay on cover bursting. The icon and the slash are WHAT delayed.

Wtf

[cedar orbit]

ignoring the fact that Crown has a shield up at 09.76 BEFORE YOUR B2, ignoring that Bay's cover got nuked at 09.65 BEFORE YOUR SBS' B3 went off

[brittle hill]

Eva Collab V2

[cedar orbit]

let's face it, you don't even understand where you want to go

[loud sonnet]

Re:zero v2 when? XD

[brittle hill]

Oh God, I have to get Emelia alter

[swift mango]

I will just take it that their team is 0.1 RL faster for argument sake. That still means jack when the other video Scarlet slash was actually 0.5sec slower than this video.

[cedar orbit]

what do you mean for agument's sake, who made the shield at 9.76?

[loud sonnet]

If that happen ill MLB emi

[cedar orbit]

clueless

I pinpoint exact timestamps, meanwhile you are "well, it's maybe delayed xD" or "Nah man, here is the burst icon, it lingers for 1 whole second, but it's a good evidence it's 0.5 RL"

[brittle hill]

NIKKECHRISTMASPARTY

[swift mango]

Again, the shield was made basically at the right time of same RL shield. Which is after my B2 end.

[cedar orbit]

your B2 did not get pressed

[swift mango]

Sure

[cedar orbit]

no way, Bay hasn't pressed her burst yet and the enemy team already has Crown's shield????!!!!

No waaaaay

[swift mango]

And where is the crown shield in this pic?

[cedar orbit]

wow, on the UI, woooow

[swift mango]

So bay press can't be delayed visually but the crown shield can. This is just you being double standard

[cedar orbit]

wow, both of them show on the UI and not waiting for visual effect, wow

[swift mango]

Wtf?

It take time from the pressing sound to when it disappeared. It's just common sense

[cedar orbit]

if you move 1 frame later, you can see Crown's effect visually too, wooooow. But, noooo, the UI is clearly delayed.

[swift mango]

About 0.2rl even

[cedar orbit]

yeah, you just have to hear it xD

anyways, I feel ashamed that you give advice to people here

[swift mango]

One burst phase last 0.32RL. And the icon only appeared on the right at the very end

Just because the image still on the left doesn't mean it didn't get pressed

[swift mango]

Fine dude fine

You can give your advice instead. No one stop you to.

[cedar orbit]

XDDDDD

[swift mango]

See it's still on the left

[cedar orbit]

that's the moment your B2 got pressed

[swift mango]

The shield was shown there.

Now show me a pic with the shield and no pressing.

[cedar orbit]

What do you wish to conclude

[cedar orbit]

already showed you

I mean, it's clear that the enemy team is 0.14 secs faster than you

[swift mango]

I was saying the first video was 0.3RL slower at least. And it's 0.5sec(0.4rl) for full burst icon to disappeared.

This video even at 0.1rl slower like you said. It would still prove the first video was 0.3 RL slower on opponent team.

[cedar orbit]

it's less than 0.1RL

you keep bringing up this copium conclusion that 0.3RL and whatever

it's simply not

and it wouldn't provide since I also established there where Blanc's burst went off

we also established where Scarlet's burst went off too...

you are just way off the mark even with video evidence

[swift mango]

It's simply that. There is no other reason Scarlet slash after your full burst otherwise.

[cedar orbit]

you still base everything on your feelings

[swift mango]

You are the one

[cedar orbit]

you failed to provide a single timestamp

[swift mango]

Did you even provide any time stamp that with image to prove?

[cedar orbit]

yes

all of them

[swift mango]

Where(

[swift mango]

Tell me which comment?

[cedar orbit]

they are explained in detail up there

[swift mango]

There is no pic of your that has the time stamp on it.

[cedar orbit]

anyone who has a decent amount of knowledge of Nikke's pvp would understand

[swift mango]

Where exactly are those time stamp?

[cedar orbit]

look at the burst timers on the left

[swift mango]

Like you said. I'm clueless so enlightened me

[swift mango]

I'm looking

[cedar orbit]

read it again, slowly

[swift mango]

I'm reading

But read what?

[cedar orbit]

do you not understand where the enemy Crown's burst went off?

do you not understand where yesterday's Blanc burst went off?

do you not see with your own eyes where Bay's cover disappeared

do you not understand where yesterday's team perished to Scarlet's burst?

do you keep on insisting ignoring everything?

[swift mango]

Blanc buff like Noah, has 0.06 RL delay. It's neglect most the time.

[cedar orbit]

apparently it's not like Noah's burst, at least the healing isn't

do you not realise by saying Blanc's buff is delayed, you are not helping your case?

[swift mango]

I don't help my case I just stating fact. Never said anything about healing.

[cedar orbit]

Blanc's B2 went off when we saw the healing pop up

anyways, you realise people say Scarlet's burst has no delay, yet there should be around 0.09 seconds looking at your video

[swift mango]

You keep talking about Blanc now. How are you explain Scarlet?

Blanc healing could be like the UI, start before burst 2 end. I will just make a video.

[cedar orbit]

it's not an UI thing, but the healing numbers popped up

should be pretty close since we see exactly when Scarlet 1-tapped the team

on your video we can assume Scarlet has a small delay on her burst since Crown's burst was online a 9.74, while Bay's cover only took damage at 9.65

Of course, you don't understand this

[graceful grotto]

dream of rapi being in pvp = gone

[brittle hill]

Not good? I thought she could have some use in stall or something. I haven't looked at her skills except the preview

[swift mango]

Scarlet need to hit before full burst however slower that is or no matter how visual is shown. Because if she hit after full burst she would get the FULL burst bonus.m like Ein or B Soda.

[long chasm]

Can i ask what purpose grave there?

[swift mango]

Level 1 just to get few hit in and make it 3rl

[graceful grotto]

maybe hahaha, but MG automatically makes me off kewk

[brittle hill]

Oh it's mg bleh

[long chasm]

Why not just empty the slot?

[swift mango]

It would be 4rl otherwise

[brittle hill]

Cooould work. If you're running a 4RL team, you don't care if you feed jackal. Only question is if she can surpass RH on burst

[quick lake]

They're testing some stuff for pvp. Not applicable generally

[long chasm]

Can i add high lv other assault or her purpose just die?

[vapid lake]

u guys noticed something in the NY livestream?

[quick lake]

Traditional pvp team works. Can see the pins for guides which shows u some pvp teams

[long chasm]

Like i change it with blanc

For cp

[vapid lake]

no mention of champion arena again

not coming any time soon october 2025 looking good

[quick lake]

Yep blanc is fine as a B2 unit

[cedar orbit]

it's early to write off RapiRH, what if her B1 says win the PVP fight

[long chasm]

My context is replacement for grave who die 😅 in video

I wanna try put it as deffense rookie

[cedar orbit]

probably shouldn't copy that team

[brittle hill]

Noah, Noise, Summer Anis, Biscuit, Rapi: Redhood. Is what I'm going to use. I already use Redhood to make it 4RL to stall so yeah feeding isn't a concern

[long chasm]

Ouch

[quick lake]

For Rosanna sac team? In their video, the unit is intentioned to die so idk what u;re trying to replicate

[brittle hill]

Oh I didn't know she's B1

[keen vapor]

Soon

[long chasm]

That not rosana team but sbs bay noise rumina

[cedar orbit]

B1 or B3, depending where she is

[long chasm]

Like in video

[quick lake]

Not relevant to your team. They are specifically testing 3RL vs 3RL comp and whether there are delays in certain burst phases.

[long chasm]

Yeah 🥲

[swift mango]

Do you have Scarlet? Actually. If you just use your Scarlet in a team you would know she always Slash before full burst icon. So make no sense to slash after full burst and 0.1 RL slower when the icon lasts 0.5 seconds. Please explain this.

I'm tired of being the one that is required to explain.

[cedar orbit]

she slashed here, your argument is invalid

[swift mango]

Now pass it to you

[swift mango]

In the first video

Of the other guy.

It was the main point

[cedar orbit]

that's too far back, just watch where he got obliterated, it should be around 9.45 iirc

[graceful grotto]

dude really hates me now

[swift mango]

He got slashed after full burst icon ended. That's at least 0.4rl slower

Now explain otherwise

[cedar orbit]

you are coping

[swift mango]

No you are

Explain otherwise

To prove you are right

[cedar orbit]

I already proved it yesterday

[swift mango]

You said about Blanc healing. But how you explain the actual dmg Scarlet slash?

That the most important thing

[swift mango]

That ended the match

[cedar orbit]

we established the button gets pressed around 09.60

[swift mango]

Where is 9.6?

In this pic?

You keep providing non existent timer

[cedar orbit]

I also explained how the enemy team managed to reach full burst 0.1ish secs after 3RL

[cedar orbit]

it should be basic knowledge, but we talked about it yesterday, look it up

[swift mango]

You mean the timer on the burst gauge?

[cedar orbit]

yes

burst gets pressed around 09.60 and the timer disappears around 09.45

enemy Scarlet burst hits at 09.49 and from your vid it's safe to assume that there is around 0.09 sec delay on Scarlet burst, so their button was pressed around 09.56

just the game runs on 30fps, so can't show every centisecs

[swift mango]

And how do you even translate this timer into second?

[cedar orbit]

what you see there are seconds, generally when we compared two things, they were on the same burst timer. We assume that the game presses burst with the same delay every time.

So we can compare B2 and B3 timers no problem

[swift mango]

The second counting is on the right of the screen.

[cedar orbit]

you can change it in the settings if you want your burst icons on the left or right

[worthy knoll]

What you guys are still going on

[swift mango]

That's not what I mean. You mean that 9.6 stand for 9.6 seconds?

[cedar orbit]

yeah

[worthy knoll]

Make a step back, and chill.. give me what is the main gist you guys are arguing about.. the very main point

The main question you want answered

[keen vapor]

Scarlet burst I think

[cedar orbit]

Don't really want anything answered since I see what happens on the screen

[graceful grotto]

nah it's christmas

ya'll need to chill

[cedar orbit]

Not sure if you guys realise, but Blood was asking genuine questions now.

[worthy knoll]

What about Scarlet burst? Just give me the main point

[graceful grotto]

she hawt on her burst animation

[cedar orbit]

Eh, Blood's vid

[graceful grotto]

but we all know that

[worthy knoll]

Dang right she is

[cedar orbit]

argument is that Blood's team is 0.14 secs slower than the opponent

[worthy knoll]

Oh is it just that? Speed between the 2 teams?

[cedar orbit]

exhibit A, you can see where Scarlet's burst went off when Bay's cover got nuked

[swift mango]

There is no delay on Scarlet last I asked. So are you saying Scarlet has delay?

[cedar orbit]

Exhibit b where Crown's burst is already online when Bay's burst has yet to go off

yeah, according to the video you showed, Crown's shield happens faster than Scarlet's burst

[swift mango]

Ugh crown is Burst 2 so ofc faster than a burst 3.

[cedar orbit]

comparatively

eg you press Crown's burst, it shield comes out instantly (assuming), press Scarlet's burst, it comes out 0.09 secs slower than Crown's shield

COMPARED

[worthy knoll]

All nukes damages are instantaneous with the exception of BSoda and Ein iirc. Animation is delayed but damage is instant that is why most nukes don't have the full burst multipliers.

[swift mango]

Yes.

This

[cedar orbit]

Should probably do something with the fact that at 09.74 burst timer enemy team has a shield

and at 09.69 burst timer Bay's cover was in tact

if they were truly instantenious, the cover should have been nuked

[raven plover]

drake treasure, noah is wind

[cedar orbit]

if we accept the fact that Scarlet's burst is instantenious, it means it takes less time for the game to press B3 than to press B2

[swift mango]

Drake treasure? Justin time. My drake is ready

[worthy knoll]

Scarlet burst damage already happened during this time, you could see Bay's cover from high hp gone to oblivion

[raven plover]

[cedar orbit]

true, but look at the burst time at 09.69 the cover was up, 09.65 cover died, so Scarlet's burst happened between those timers. However, if you go back in time and check B2's timer, at 09.74 the enemy team had a shield, meaning at B2's timer 09.74 Crown's burst was on

if the game presses B2 and B3 with the same delay, Scarlet's burst should have hit at 09.74 already

[worthy knoll]

Wondering but how are you getting those milliseconds values?

[swift mango]

Well I just assume each burst phase being 0.42RL here. Only second knowledge though.

Would appreciate any new first source knowledge.

[cedar orbit]

Sadly, those are not numbers you can tell exactly just by looking at the video

however, we can see the ingame timers

[swift mango]

Me even sadder. I was spreading misinformation about one burst phase being 0.32 RL all along.

Need to relearn Math...

[cedar orbit]

the calculator says B2 and B3 should be pressed with the same delay, but then either Scarlet's burst is not instantenious, or B2 and B3 don't have the same delay

[worthy knoll]

Crown burst happened at 9.74, Bay went off at 9.64. so the speed difference between the two teams is just 0.1.

[swift mango]

Yeah it's not even 0.1 RL then.

Thanks

[cedar orbit]

that was one argument, yes

[swift mango]

Yeah, you are right of their team being faster. Maybe their RL have some small CS on Noah and Jack

My bad

[worthy knoll]

Well I'm not sure if we can call it RL, but its not enough for Scarlet burst to be faster than Bay. Since it the gap between B2 to B3 is 0.42. tho what are you guys want tho? I mean the main gist. Like Bay wasn't supposed to block that Scarlet slash?

[cedar orbit]

No, it's your favourite topic of Jackal having CS and everyone else being hitscan, that caused the small difference

[keen vapor]

My Rapunzel with 14.72% charge speed

[swift mango]

Basically what I said

[cedar orbit]

Crown's burst was online at B2 9.74, with our current understanding, Bay's cover should have been blown up at B3 time 9.74, but at 9.69 it was still in tact.

[worthy knoll]

Ahh yes coz its just Crown burst at this time and not Scarlet

[cedar orbit]

I will be away for a while.

[worthy knoll]

I mean you just said it was Crown burst

So Bay cover wouldn't be blown away since Crown burst isn't an offensive burst nuke

[cedar orbit]

I said B3 timer 9.74, not B2

if burst get pressed at the same time, Scarlet's burst time should mirror Crown's at 9.74

[worthy knoll]

Uhh, no the timer in game isn't exactly like the RL timer iirc. The timer your looking at is in seconds, but the 1 RL time isn't exactly 1 second iirc

[covert lintel]

no CA?

[quick lake]

No CA

[swift mango]

It's will happen happen at end of December but not this year.

[worthy knoll]

Tho @cedar orbit if you want a better one to answer the question, we can ask @bleak shale or @full dew as they were the one who made the calculator timings. I'm going on with just what their calc says

[quick lake]

At least u get ur jackal!

[swift mango]

Really?

[quick lake]

Step up selector this NY

[worthy knoll]

As for how many seconds is an actual 1 RL is "seconds", I don't know.

But iirc 1 RL time is more than 1 second, I do not know the exact number tho

[quick lake]

Gatrix calc was 1 RL = 1.23333s. Idk where this number came from

[worthy knoll]

Well only they can answer that

[quick lake]

[swift mango]

Bro, did you input the 300 gem code? Do this when you are making comments in another window. You may miss it.

It's been awhile since the post code.

In the middle of this conversation

[cedar orbit]

wait, wasn't the code a 10 pull?

[keen vapor]

There's two codes

[cedar orbit]

I did not notice the awakenrapi code, thank you.

I'm still poor, 240 pulls for Mari and 640 pulls for Cinderella went hard

[swift mango]

Well you are not poor. Did you get XMaiden?

And XGuil?

Your luck aren't bad either. It's normal even in those 2 banner.

[cedar orbit]

got them in 20-20 pulls

[swift mango]

Yeah you are lucky and rich. Good combination

[full dew]

eww slow mode,

[swift mango]

[quick lake]

Since gatrix is here, how did @full dew calculate the time between bursts?

Based on the calc sheet

[full dew]

by counting ammo

• First, you do the time frame with 1 RL = ? AR = ? SMG = ? MG
• Then you burst, count the ammo change within each burst. Divide that data to ? SMG above

Look at Makima and count. You can do your own exp tho, I just ran this test as reference.

[swift mango]

Guess you are the only one counting the game in the centi second after all. Guess I'm normal for not knowing your common knowledge ahaha 😅

Oh well, your Scarlet vs Crown timer issue won't be explained then....

[quick lake]

Hm yeah, centi-seconds hard to measure based on ammo count

[swift mango]

Gartrix based his calculator on ammo. Not centi second burst timer.

So nothing to explain the difference here.

[quick lake]

Yeah makes sense. Burst timer probably too micro yeah

[quick lake]

Thanks for explaining I am 1 pvp knowledge wiser

[swift mango]

@cedar orbit thanks for the Arena knowledge you provide. I got to know something new

[swift mango]

Where did you get this image from?

[thin abyss]

I missed the stream, did they mention anything about the champions arena?

[cedar orbit]

Don't think anyone really wants to explain the difference

[swift mango]

It's just too small. Doesn't have any real effect on gameplay.

[covert lintel]

twitter

[swift mango]

Yeah thx. I check the source and the image still blurry. Couldn't make sense of what gear New Rapi use.

Dev purposely did that I guess.

[cedar orbit]

The vid is also funny, because Drake starts shooting 1 frame faster

[swift mango]

At least I could see Rapi being B3

Yet another b3. If she was Elysion it could be nice but nope.

[covert lintel]

the only thing that's certain is new rapi saved elysion tower

[swift mango]

She is Overspec though. Still Elysion or new faction?

[cedar orbit]

probably Pilgrim

[swift mango]

Look more like Elysion icon than Pligrim

[covert lintel]

the symbol is elysion with a bit of light so probably still elysion

[cedar orbit]

as far as standard recruitment goes, she is bundled with the pilgrims

[swift mango]

Her weapon icon look like SMG though. Are you sure?

[raven plover]

she doesnt unless they change that, you cant use her on ely tower

[swift mango]

Idk if I should skip new Rapi.

[raven plover]

not pvp unit, skip

[keen vapor]

MG

Finally pierce MG

[swift mango]

Hmmm 🤔 I still need to build my Rei A. So it's defending on her skill then.

[keen vapor]

Understandable

Rei Mica team huh?

[swift mango]

Why do I need Mica?

[keen vapor]

Burst gen

[swift mango]

Nah she can rot there because the game no generous enough to me

[fathom rock]

[covert lintel]

union raid is becoming pvp too by making all union competing dmg

[swift mango]

What is this? A brick team?

[fathom rock]

An enemy comp
He never stopped to think what happens if jackal...

[fathom rock]

This means campaign and tower deficit clear is pvp and solo raid is pvp

[swift mango]

Everything with a rank board is PvP. What are you guys talking about.🤤

[fathom rock]

Counter for noah/biscuit/emilia/rh/rapunzel?

5 shotgunners?

Would that kill rh and rapu?

[swift mango]

Not like they can with in Burt's speed anyway using a 4rl team.

[raven plover]

drake gonna be goated soon

[fathom rock]

We don't even know what the item does

[swift mango]

In before just another Viper.

[raven plover]

the raw stats alone gonna eat noah trust

[swift mango]

You get no raw stat after sr15

[raven plover]

yea from sr15 ofkors

[swift mango]

Miranda gonna have burst gen of Xmica, trust.b😏

[raven plover]

[swift mango]

I have Miranda and Helm MLB, drake at 2 LB. So 3 units ready, just need to look at the skill.

Such coincidence

If Drake is good then great, since I already have her OL.

Milk was my newest SSR too. A sign.

[spiral onyx]

Drake and Miranda will be interesting

[swift mango]

Milk could get the best treasure this time just because the game hate me.

[spiral onyx]

At one point I considered Miranda for my CA team

We'll see how she gets buffed

Drake is already paired with SAnis team, so whatever more she gets from her item will only be good news for SAnis team

[swift mango]

If you are attacking your whole team win be stuck at Noah invulnerable.

If you are the defense them then sure.

[fathom rock]

Man I'll just counter scar sross Instead then

[covert lintel]

i hope she will get crit rate buff too

[kindred tinsel]

sick i got a reason to invest in drake more now

[lunar dirge]

which drake

[graceful grotto]

scarlet-blanc-red hood-noir-jackal

noah-noise-centi-cinderella-xmaiden

tia-biscuit-sbs-rapunzel-viper

[celest moat]

Thank you!

[kindred tinsel]

the one with doro ofc

[lunar dirge]

hmm,i was about to unleash my inner kendrick

[quasi prism]

Mustarrrrdddd

[bleak shale]

hi wats question i woke up

[tropic summit]

good morning

[graceful grotto]

imagine if suddenly they all one shot jackal lmaooo

[fathom rock]

Nah bro
That's a 1rl comp material

[spiral onyx]

1RL comp can happen with double sac Rosanna

Actually, now that I think about it, with Cinderella...

lvl 1 Centi, lvl 1 Anis, Makima, Rosanna, Cinderella

Wait does CP deficit also decrease damage you deal

Ok nvm, can't work, CP stats penalty from running a lvl 1 unit will prevent Cinderella from killing anyone

[bleak shale]

just make ur opponent position their cindy badly and add a shield on

ez 1rl