Ship Balance Feedback

[gritty plaza]

needs barrage at that range tbh that's 3.0 less tracking than the baba

[restive bay]

damn now there are actual downsides to being immobile for 60s

crazy how that works

[dusky sentinel]

they would not be strong even in pve, without the range bonus or tracking you could not be using them lol

[ebon turret]

??????????????????????

[slate shale]

???????????????

You ever done c5 crabbing?

[restive bay]

you still do 2x the dps of everything else lol

fit more application

maybe you need to run fewer damage mods

[slate shale]

Yeah application mods are right there

[warm path]

I've never even flown a mauraders but my 4 cruisers cant kill it so nerf em

peak peak peak

[restive bay]

https://br.evetools.org/br/6877f1ff62da2b00124edc1b

ive killed fleets with my marauders

i intimately understand how broken they are

[slate shale]

Its not the issue that we cant kill it lol, its that we have to immediately kill a grid

ffs man

[restive bay]

@warm path those marauders are all me on that br

[warm path]

Sven you are emabarrasing yourself with that. 15 mauraderds shouldnt beat 30 HACS???? like wtf are you saying LOL

[restive bay]

i had no reps

i was pure buffer

[warm path]

yea

[restive bay]

no logi

[warm path]

and guess what

[restive bay]

yet i have the application and dps

[warm path]

THEY NERFED BUFFER MAURADERS 5 MONTHS AGO

[restive bay]

to clear a 40 man cerb fleet

[warm path]

do it again

[ebon turret]

they should have just brought 100 hacs

[restive bay]

thats not the issue

lmao

[ebon turret]

idiot sven

[restive bay]

the had jamming tengues

[warm path]

???? are you trolling??? lmao

[exotic needle]

And yet they’re still flown?

[slate shale]

The issue is that he can solo kill fleets with 15 marauders

of actual people

[warm path]

do it again now. after the buffer nerf. go ahead lol

[restive bay]

still can lol

[warm path]

wheres the br?

[restive bay]

the range and dps is still the same

[slate shale]

where is your br of marauders being balanced though

cuz i dont see it

Like he gave you so many reasons

you just spew shit like an unwashed anus

[ebon turret]

noobs who have never flown marauders!!!
actually here is a BR of me multiboxing 15 marauders and pwning a hac fleet twice the size with no support
yeah well do it again right now!!!

[warm path]

i think theres something wrong with you so im gonna just stop with you lol

[dusky sentinel]

hitting hacs with a mwd on without the "application" bonus makes no difference xD

[warm path]

15 mauraders vs 30 HACS...

[ebon turret]

yeah should have just brought 100 hacs

just blob everything and then you never lose actually

[restive bay]

it was 60, most didnt kill anything

lmao

[ebon turret]

nothing is over or underpowered because you can always just blob it

true enlightenment

[restive bay]

they also had your supposed counters to marauders

td's and ecm

yet got turbo dunked

cause i had a sebo

[warm path]

are you gonna post a br post nerf or what?

[deep fox]

insane tech

[restive bay]

i dont play in poch anymore lol

ill find one from khan

[warm path]

lmao how convenient

[south moss]

yall need Jesus

or GFs

[warm path]

or just any 4 cruisers

[restive bay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC8PwaFf8ck

this is khan in active vargurs

[sacred juniper]

I think kronos needs to be able to field 5 heavy drones

[restive bay]

shitting on a barghest fleet

bbbbbbbut buffer

they are active

[warm path]

ok you're a troll... posts a video from a year ago

no after nerf

[restive bay]

and what has changed

[dusky sentinel]

this was one year ago and the active meta didn't last long at all.

[restive bay]

hmmmmmmmm

[dusky sentinel]

reason to why you don't see active meta even now in poch

[restive bay]

it was becuase buffer is easier

[dusky nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-8470516175995282617

[dusky sentinel]

nope, because they get alpha thru the reps.

and they cost 5 times of a normal ship that kills you

[static skiff]

Summary

• ⬆️ Stabber fleet issue (“stabber”) falloff change has been positive.
• ✅ Exeq Navy damage reduction curbed its dominance without sidelining viability.
• ⬆️ Rupture buffs improved performance, though it remains underwhelming.
• ⬆️ Bellicose quality-of-life adjustments increased piloting satisfaction.
• ⬆️ Babaroga introduction was healthy;
• ⬆️ Maelstrom tweaks moved the needle but stopped short of transformative impact.

Amarr Lineup
Despite a deep roster, Amarr ships struggle off-paper due to:

• Rollback of Surgical Strike bonus
• Reactive Armor module
• Persistent slot and damage-locking constraints
• High-performers (Legion, Omen Navy, Prophecy Navy) remain solid, but most others lag behind their peers in faction and pirate variants.

Observations
Navy Destroyers now boast flexibility, damage output, and fitting room that eclipse many small-ship roles. While they should naturally counter fast, small targets:

• Frigates need adjustments to remain a credible threat or counter-play.
• Avoid direct nerfs to destroyers; preserve their niche as small-ship hunters.

Tech I Frigates
Several core hulls warrant base-stat or capacitor improvements to stay relevant:
Tormentor, Rifter, Tristan: Consider modest buffer HP or capacitor boosts.

Other T1 frigates: Evaluate damage per second and fitting economy against updated module costs.

Amarr-Specific Ships

• Beyond generic T1 issues, Amarr hulls exhibit unique pain points:
• Capacitor and HP caps that underdeliver in prolonged engagements.
• A struggle to balance damage/tank/speed in a healthy way
• High-risk - low-reward gameplay
• Many exhibit bonuses that on face value could mean that they are effecient brawlers, but lack useful or impactful traits to enchance this, and lack fitting to go for range.

Buff Key Frigates
Analyze damage-to-fitting ratios for underperforming hulls.
Enhance Amarr Hull Viability
Monitor Pirate Variants
Benchmark Sansha, Amarr, and Blood Raider faction ships to ensure balanced niche roles.

TLDR:
Some t1 frigate roles are mixed, with some having viable capacitor and armor whilst others cant even make competing fits. Balance cahnges overal are really good from recent changes.
Faction destroyers overperform dramatically for their class

[dusky sentinel]

actually more of that

[ebon turret]

i don't think the rifter needs any changes, it already received some and is now the most used t1 frigate by a fair margin i believe

[reef fossil]

Pretty sensible. I´d still up the base hull price.

[ebon turret]

Killmails for T1 combat frigs in the last 90 days:

Punisher: 7,857
Tormentor: 1,220
Merlin: 7,150
Kestrel: 5,126
Rifter: 11,349
Breacher: 2,630
Incursus: 2,539
Tristan: 4,815

(i pulled those numbers yesterday so they'll have changed a bit)

[reef fossil]

Wait what Tormentor has the fewest?

[ebon turret]

the tormentor is garbage

[restive bay]

with those changes i think the price is reasonable

[dusty ibex]

Flying it is a torment

[static skiff]

It has alot of potential

[ebon turret]

potential to be reworked

[static skiff]

But im not staying to debate, i just came to drop and leave haha

o7

[reef fossil]

its quite good if you fit ab dualweb

[slate shale]

This is written by chat gpt

i am very sure

[ebon turret]

it might be formatted by gpt but whatever

[static skiff]

spelling checked, and formatted but not written

[slate shale]

Oki oki fair enough

[clear slate]

Something to look at with Dreads. I spent a great sum of isk to build a pirate dread. And then navy dread comes along with better stats and great deal cheaper. Pirate dreads need a buff?

[static skiff]

didnt want some poor icelander to struggle to read through my typos haha

[warm path]

get a br yet or any video post nerf???? still waiting 🤣

[slate shale]

he already posted lol

[warm path]

please read

[dusty ibex]

This is probably the worst feedback thread to date. I’ve seen like 1 decent post

[reef fossil]

Remove nullification from everything except Blockade runners!

[ebon turret]

do you have a fit?

cause from what i've seen it just has 0 cpu

[slate shale]

The fit he uses in the vid isnt nerfed

[warm path]

yes it is lol

[restive bay]

that video is of active vargurs

[reef fossil]

No, I used to fly it back in the day, but I then switched to a dualweb incursus because it is just more fun lol

[ebon turret]

it has less effective guns than a punisher, no resist bonus of a punisher, 1 less low than a punisher, less speed and cap than a punisher, and you have to fit compact every module to even fill the slots

unless you sack another lowslot for a 0cpu mod

[reef fossil]

It does also get kinda countered by rifter

[restive bay]

wait did i link the wrong one

one sec

[reef fossil]

But a CPU buff would be nice, yes

[restive bay]

wait no its active kronos but still

[slate shale]

No its right

hes just galaxy braining

[ebon turret]

like, regardless of whether this is a good fit or not, i think t1 combat frigs should be more forgiving than this for fitting

max skills, 6 compact mods, 2.5cpu left

ideally the tormentor would be reworked into a mixed rocket/drone frigate

so that missiles/drones are represented in the amarr t1 frig lineup

[warm path]

do you want me to post the br from the video... or do you wanna face the music and do it? lmao

[ebon turret]

bro.. there is a meow right at the end that made me think my cat was meowing at me

[warm path]

ladies and gentlemen... i present to you... @restive bay 's ace up his sleeve for why mauraders should be nerfed... LOL https://br.evetools.org/br/6551cc0ad29479039eac1dd3

its too good

now im really out

[restive bay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Msr07NgYGs

[reef fossil]

I think I did something similar in FW

[restive bay]

keep coping that they arent an issue lmao

[reef fossil]

but CPU is rubbish in any case

[ebon turret]

yeah, and these are supposed to be newbro friendly ships

thats with max skills with 2 compact webs and it has 1.7 cpu left, i think new players will struggle to fill the slots even

[reef fossil]

Gotta get them hooked early )))

[slate shale]

Big respect to khan though

this is cool

And you, ofcourse

i think vids like these are very impressive

[restive bay]

its not that hard once you have the muscle memory

[dapper ruin]

Mauraders are oppressive, but they can also be fucked up easily buy a couple cheap ships (ecm, tracking disruption)

[restive bay]

again, thats true for all battleships

the thing about the marauder is that it has all the bonuses required to completely disregard its downside

they gave them
resistance to ecm (100% sensor strength bonus in bastion)
resistance to TD's (range bonus in bastion + hull bonuses)
a way to still be mobile while not moving (MJD cooldown bonus)
tools to deal with light tackle (two/three util highs)

if a ship is supposed to be weak to ewar, make it weak to ewar

dont make it less vulnerable to ewar than any other subcap in the game

[subtle jasper]

Compare Maurauders to Pirate Battleships:
Either Pirate BS are very weak for their Price or Maurauders are incredible strong for their Price

one of both has to be true

[slate shale]

I think its a little bit of both

cuz pirate bs are insanely pricey

they require omega fit to be viable in smallgang

like you can t2 a marauder and itll do fine, a nightmare is gonna huff paint t2

[dapper ruin]

Did they not nerf the ecm resistance of Mauraders?

[subtle jasper]

if you want to get somewhat comparable performance out of a Pirate BS you need to havy very deep pockets, and even then i'd say that a t2 fit maurauder would be able to deal with it easil, which seems odd if you consider that the hulls cost the same

[restive bay]

bastion give 100% sensor strength bonu

[dapper ruin]

Mm, i thought they had nerfed their resistance at one point

[subtle jasper]

all other ewar

not ecm afaik

[restive bay]

iirc they had a global ewar resistance

on top of 2x the sensor strength of other ships

Hail

Barrage

Mobility

totally balanced guys

[slate shale]

Lol its faster

[subtle jasper]

yeah mjd bonus has to go imo

[restive bay]

ngl i like it

[subtle jasper]

• make bastion take some cap

[restive bay]

however

they need to have all range and tracking bonuses removed

so that there are ranges that a marauder cant be effective

requiring skilled use of the mjd

[silent barn]

Systematic changes I'd like to see
nerf med beams
**buff all med short range weapon systems **
buff pirate cruisers and frigs (not mordus and gila)
reduce recon base long range by about 25%
reduce the overheat bonus of webs

Specific changes:
change sac somehow, it doesn't really have a spot rn
mamba needs fitting and speed, maybe a mid slot
meku needs something to give it an edge over tfi, unsure what tbh
cerb -1 low +1 mid and adjusted fitting

These are the ones that I have brought up. I'll bring up the rest.

[subtle jasper]

i guess you can do one of both, as long as dps projection goes down

[silent barn]

idk nerf medium beams tho

[restive bay]

removing the application bonuses would make it a much more balanced imo

you should have issues applying to smaller stuff

as a tradeoff for the insane dps

[subtle jasper]

hm i'm worried about their role as crab ships then, which would probably make it a harder sell.. mjd is kinda irrelevant for pve

[urban pawn]

I can elaborate more on the points if you wish

For the beam point specifically - I think that projection creep as a whole is an issue, but a lot of the biggest offenders are medium beam ships

[silent barn]

I agree with projection creep part, however, which medium beam ships are the problem?

[urban pawn]

Legion, nomen, pni, zealot are all the highest DPS projection ships within their respective categories

[slate shale]

zealot isnt very strong though

[urban pawn]

Nomen is debatable

[slate shale]

atleast compared to the nomen

Others i agree with

maybe retri too

[urban pawn]

You are comparing a beam ship to a beam ship

I agree with you on that one

[restive bay]

projection creep is a symptom of marauders

prove me wrong

for nano at least

[urban pawn]

I can totally see zealot getting some love if beams get nerfed

Speed, cap, pg, agility or a combination of any of those

[urban pawn]

I don't think I can really be objective on the retri so I won't really elaborate on it

But I feel like it's the only AF that's balanced for nano

[slate shale]

I mean retri far outshines other AF

[urban pawn]

For nano*

[exotic needle]

I feel like for kiting it uniquely strong but not for brawling

[silent barn]

I am gona aask a big questiionn

[slate shale]

i have been nanoing in the wolf, which has been fun, but the retri staying power is nuts compared to it

[urban pawn]

A lot of AFs have their niche

[silent barn]

What should the meta look like?

[urban pawn]

I don't think that can be answered easily

[exotic needle]

Medium range is king

[silent barn]

What are you bulding towards?

[exotic needle]

Max 50km range

[slate shale]

Kiting should be max 40-50km

[urban pawn]

I think the better question is, which direction should the meta lean towards

[silent barn]

That's also fair

[urban pawn]

Not necessarily what the end goal is

[silent barn]

Help guide CCP towards a direction

[restive bay]

i would be in favor of a buff to sig tanking of some kinda

like big nerfs to med and large gun tracking

[silent barn]

I would prefer fights to be no bigger than 80km

[restive bay]

no

[urban pawn]

To which Id answer, more dynamic fights and shorter ranges, reduce speed creep

[exotic needle]

Issue being abyssals at that range are still super oppressive

[slate shale]

80km should be sniping range, like naga, range

[restive bay]

noooooo

[exotic needle]

Linked web is like 30km iirc

[restive bay]

that would all mega nerf damps

[urban pawn]

I suggested a web overheat bonus nerf as a partial solution to that

It's not ideal

But it's something

[restive bay]

and buff ecm

how about making the web heat bonus to speed

[exotic needle]

What about flat reducing abyssal mod stats

[restive bay]

instead of range

[silent barn]

Yeah we can also nerf combat recon range

[exotic needle]

Like the total amount changed reduced by 25%

Would be a bigger nerf to the tackle range bonused ships than most

[urban pawn]

I don't think that's realistic

[restive bay]

make combat recon bonuses flat number instead of percent

[slate shale]

I like this

[restive bay]

so the disparity between abyssals and non is lower

[ebon turret]

i think this could be good, it also adds an extra incentive to heat webs on targets that are well within cold range and more heat management = higher skill cap

[restive bay]

ye

[ebon turret]

maybe change heat bonus from +30% range to +20% range, +10% strength or something, i cba to do maths rn

[restive bay]

less on the range imo

[restive bay]

@silent barn thoughts?

[urban pawn]

Another low-key related thing thing is the harpy - a lot of people disagree with me, but I feel like no frig should be able to shoot out to 70

[dire flume]

kestrel/hookbill

[exotic needle]

It’s also kinda ass at everything else though

It’s also more of a rail issue than harpy

[urban pawn]

Well, these have to commit everything to it

Harpy can still have reasonable tank and ADC

[ebon turret]

yeah, harpy is the old muninn/current FNI of AFs

[exotic needle]

Also thoughts on buffing confessor

[urban pawn]

And also, the damage is instand, not delayed, can't outrun rails

[slate shale]

My list contains that

[exotic needle]

It’s kinda mega trash at everything especially compared to the other t3ds

[dire flume]

They're still oppressive in FW, to the point that one of the main strategies when facing them is to just brick tank punishers/inquisitors and just outrep their dps

[slate shale]

#1394667173192138955 message

[urban pawn]

I can see one range bonus being changed for a DPS one to balance the dps at medium ranges

[slate shale]

My list ❤️

[urban pawn]

And then maybe some base stats tweaks based on QA

[ebon turret]

how is confessor relative to svipul

cause my impression is svipul is worse

[exotic needle]

Ngl I think the svipul is ok

[ebon turret]

but i could be wrong

[exotic needle]

I’ve seen viable fits for the svipul

[spare tangle]

i agree double its DPS

Better align time would be nice though trying to keep up with 2 or 3 secound align time hecates with my fat ass confessor isnt that fun

[slate shale]

Both are really shit

[ebon turret]

actually true i just remembered my favourite svipul fit

[slate shale]

wolf feels stronger then svipul imo

[exotic needle]

That feels like mega cap

[snow mountain]

I think cloaky ships in general lack counters. I say this as a cloak enjoyer. Cloaking is too passive.

Once you cloak your ship, it is effectively no longer part of the game for everyone and everything else until you decloak. I want more interesting mechanics related to cloaking and getting decloaked.

[exotic needle]

Especially because the svipul has playable dps projection

[slate shale]

I can kite fine with wolf

[urban pawn]

I suppose? I'm just speaking from my NS experience where I don't run into those a lot, so I can't really comment on it

[silent barn]

show me the math

[exotic needle]

The vigilant also feels ok atleast for kiting its damage and speed are good maybe it lacks tank for brawling but it’s util would probably make it way to oppressive as a strong brawler

[urban pawn]

But just by glancing at pyfa, you basically need to commit every single slot to project to those ranges

[slate shale]

you have to either choose between taking damage, or being fast, i kinda wanna be both when nanoing

[silent barn]

lookiing at it now

[exotic needle]

I think it makes it a ship that requires more hands when nanoing especially exploiting the modes gimmick

[urban pawn]

T3Ds really need to have a mwd sig bonus regardless of the mode they are in tbh

That would solve a lot of their issues

[exotic needle]

^

[slate shale]

Would make jackdaw giga OP

[urban pawn]

Like, I think that alone makes confessor viable

[silent barn]

Make pirate battleships cheaper. They are way too expensive compared to marauders
ALL PIRATE SHIPS with better capacitor, except maybe mordus (since its the only balancing mechanism for infinite kite) and triglav (cuz they are fine). Extra buffs for the vigilant, ashimmu and stratios. None of them are worth flying right now.
Mekubal not an upgrade to the trasher fleet
Osprey navy just not worth using right now (this is bullshiit)
Make pirate battleships cheaper. They are way too expensive compared to marauders
Nerf web range on recons+loki to reduce projection
Nerf warp disruption range of lachesis and keres to reduce projection
blobs plate and extender bonus to 50% way too oppressive
Buff blasters
ANSIPLEXES WITH JUMP FATIGUE
Citadels with lootdrop in nullsec, so war actually means something

[urban pawn]

Then increase its base sig

[silent barn]

Stuff in theory I agree with

[exotic needle]

What about splitting the range bonus on the confessor for pulses only

[ebon turret]

stratios rework pls

this ship is currently pointless except as noob bait because it looks cool

[urban pawn]

Idk, we don't have a single ship with a bonus like that

[gritty plaza]

Buff blasters?

[ebon turret]

kestrel has talked about the possibility of splitting weapon bonuses like that in future

[urban pawn]

I'm not sure if I like the idea of introducing it to make confessor something it probably can't even be

[silent barn]

continue yapoping

[silent barn]

yes

Gallente needs two things to make it viable in fleets

[gritty plaza]

In what sense though, enlighten me

[slate shale]

I think blasters are probably the weakest weapon system rn

[ebon turret]

medium and large blasters are by and large garbage

[urban pawn]

If we get it as a "common" feature then sure why not

[gritty plaza]

If you consider electrons, yes lmao

[urban pawn]

Btw @silent barn one thing I forgot to mention

[silent barn]

1. Large blasters need dps to make the limitid range viable
2. Plate ENI buff on all gallente navy ships.

[urban pawn]

ACs are the only weapon type where you consider using undersized guns

Everything else you basically always go biggest gun

[silent barn]

ye

[slate shale]

rails for tracking cuz im bad at trainsmotching :3

[dusky sentinel]

please buff blasters, so i need less taloses to gank lmao

can't wait to get a 3k dps talos lol

[silent barn]

where is ur waifu

[warm path]

I would never guess. @slate shale

[slate shale]

werent you gone?

[dusky sentinel]

nobody made one for Blackflag 😦

[gritty plaza]

I'm still somewhat against making applying said plate buff to remaining gall navy ships. Large blaster range is perfect inside scram range. Kronos can hit upto 60km with Null, L Null neutrons in general can hit pretty far

Neutron L blaster Rokh can hit upto 40 / 50km with null

Corm navy with null + neutrons has 7km optimal upto 14 falloff

16km optimal range with meme fit

[warm path]

back because #neverforget

[gritty plaza]

Anything electrons is ass agreed

ions are situational. Medium ions on a ENI are fine for example

[urban pawn]

Not just that

[silent barn]

Most fights megathron BS cannot get on top the of baddies'

[urban pawn]

Like when has anyone used 200mm rails

[silent barn]

becauase we are too slow

[urban pawn]

Or 650 arties

[slate shale]

I mean you dont adress actual points, you just copy paste the same message. im sorry but your debating skills are ass

[gritty plaza]

I agree, projection meta and all

[urban pawn]

Or whatever the undersized lasers are called

Can we get those rebalanced so there is a reason to use them over the biggest guns please

[silent barn]

yeah so we need the speed to compensaate

[gritty plaza]

I guess plated navy mega can use the mass penalty bonus

But blaster buff, not sure

[slate shale]

tracking would be cool i think

[silent barn]

Questiion

I have seen thiis

I've put it in the thread but can we make the ESS no cloaking zone on the inside like 500km bigger already? I'm not sure it's really a "ship" issue but I don't know where this suggestion should actually go lol

@jagged panther

what's the problem

[urban pawn]

Obviously, it's the smaller gun, the more tracking, less DPS, less range

But it's about balancing the 3 values

[restive bay]

@silent barn
t2 = 10km
rf = 15km
well rolled rf = 17.5km

recon V hugin + skirm links
current:
T2 = 53km
RF = 80km
Rolled RF = 93km

proposed (this is +10km per level):
T2 = 60km
RF = 65km
Rolled RF = 67.5km

[urban pawn]

So I don't think you can easily say "just buff tracking"

(also fitting obviously)

[urban pawn]

People cloak marauder inside ESSes for like 16 hrs a day to deny any attempts at stealing the bank

[silent barn]

https://tenor.com/view/mochi-mochimons-mochimon-kawaii-cute-gif-13105127215766961484

[silent barn]

oooof

Ill bring that up now

[urban pawn]

But the thing is

This only really works against unprepared people

If you live in a nss WH, you can catch them rather easily

A 100mn phantasm will cover the 250km in one bastion cycle

[dusty ibex]

It doesn’t work against a real ESS gang. Only works against like a solo cruiser or whatever.

If they bring a comp that’s bad to fight don’t de cloak.

[worn dock]

if someone wants to sit a marauder in an ess all day instead of having that character ratting or whatever doesn't seem like a huge problem to me

[urban pawn]

So it only really works against filamenting gangs that can't afford to have a niche ship like that

[gritty plaza]

It's cheesy and you need a very specialized fit / comp to deal with it

[urban pawn]

Which, I'd argue, is fine

[gritty plaza]

And it deters content more than it generates

[urban pawn]

You are trading ease of access for a portion of content

[restive bay]

i would be fine removing it if you also remove filaments

[urban pawn]

Realistically the best thing you can do for ESS PvP is removing the recon dscan immunity

[dusty ibex]

honestly I don’t think there is really a huge amount of issues with the current meta.

Certain ships are very under performing (tormentor, Firetail) and others don’t seem to be worth their price (Mekubal,Cruor, Asshimu) but besides that I don’t see a whole lot of problems.

I think FNI spam is annoying but we have always had fotm ships

[urban pawn]

Wild take

Actually, based on the ship choices I'd expect that to be a FW take

Which is kinda fine ig

[slate shale]

@silent barn Ur very based for listening to our feedback btw, really apprechiate it

[restive bay]

fni is wildly overpowered and it stifles many other interesting comps

its also way to easy to FC

[dusty ibex]

FNI is Mooonin 2025

[restive bay]

no

its worse

[silent barn]

trying my best

[dusty ibex]

Okay but like as an analogy, FNI is to arty munin as 2025 was to 2018

[restive bay]

muninns didnt do 620dps and not even need to adc

[urban pawn]

I can see that most people haven't had the pleasure of running into things like a bargh doing 1300 DPS at 140km while going 5km/s

[restive bay]

well yea but that doesnt change how boring and cringe the ship is

[restive bay]

nerf barg lock range to 75km base imo

that puts it back into range of arty or forces the bargs to run fewer bcu/mge

and run sigamps

[dusty ibex]

Blocs will always gravitate towards a ship that is fairly cheaply fitted and easy to FC.

If the FNI gets nerfed into the ground we will see something else get spammed to death. Probably just change to CFI’s again tbh.

I’m not saying the FNI isn’t a problem

[restive bay]

cfis are easier to deal with than fnis

so i am fine with that

[dusty ibex]

But the issue is that armor comps are not viable in the eyes of blocs due to RR armor reps

What I want is for armor comps besides caps to be viable choices again

[restive bay]

#1394667173192138955 message

[dusty ibex]

I like flying CFI more than FNI so I’d be fine with that too lol

[restive bay]

cfi has no cap booster

has missiles

and less ehp

[dusty ibex]

Yes it’s perfect skirmish boat.

[restive bay]

id fight cfis all day

[dusty ibex]

Capless weapons. Fast as fuck.

I love CFIs

[restive bay]

its weaker to its counters

than fnis

which makes it more engaging to fight

and to fly

[dusty ibex]

Like I said. I love CFIs because it allows for escalation

[restive bay]

its a good ship in the right scenario but bad as a universal answer

[dusty ibex]

Rather than “oh da fuckin Caldari RP alliances are here with the fuckin FNI blobs”

[restive bay]

its pretty well balanced

[sacred juniper]

600 dps bc lolkekxd and thats optimistic considering dogshit hml application

[restive bay]

2 things, i was talking bout fnis

and the cyfi gets an application bonus

lmao

[dusty ibex]

Second the CFI can evaporate frigates with HML (ask me how I know)

[gritty plaza]

I have yet to see A CFI fleet without paint support

[restive bay]

and?

paints are good

you are just bad if you dont have them

[dusty ibex]

I have also yet to see a FNI fleet without paints too

[restive bay]

^^

[urban pawn]

Just put some noobs in vigils

[sacred juniper]

yes but it doesnt change that for most humans its a dogshit choice for a bc

[gritty plaza]

Yeah, its just about the comment about HML application

[restive bay]

ah

fai

fair

[dusty ibex]

I am trying to be a nicer person than I have in the past so I’ll say I disagree and leave it at that.

[sacred juniper]

i mean what does it have on literally any turret bc

[restive bay]

we are talking about nullsec fleet meta

[sacred juniper]

oh

Irrelevant

[restive bay]

yeah?

[sacred juniper]

u can fly anything Xd it doesnt matter as long as you have more people

[dusty ibex]

Ah well see that’s not true.

[restive bay]

just not true but okay lil bro

[dusty ibex]

Go look at the Harpy fleet my alliance ran into the wall 2 hours ago lol. To like 8 shotgun prots

Or the fleets Sven’s alliance ran into ground against a Zirn ball

Numbers are important yes but not the end all.

[restive bay]

tbf goons had both more numbers and caps

but yea

u cant just bring 500 corms to every fight

and win

[sacred juniper]

idk 2025 very low ttk meta even after surgical strike changes and people are unironically flying vedmaks and missile ships where you have to wait for your damage

I dont get it

i want all my damage upfront please Thankyou

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1301313055547850772/1312479232718405712/vlc_2vILVHNKj6.gif

[lament nova]

Feedback - Minmatar brawling gunboats need some buffs. Almost all the t1 hulls and most of the t2 hulls have either drifted toward missiles, which follows a trend in most of the game except gallente, or are just too weak with guns.

Reason - This really is important to me because I have been flying Minmatar my whole eve career, and I think gunboats have great flavor. Very different style from everything else in the game. Usually (used to be) flexible hulls in terms of shield/armor tank, arty for ranged (usually less effective) but awesome brawlers with big dang guns! Webs and paints being the racial EWAR is super great too, webs feel great in brawling and holding a ship down. Scram Kiting is a big deal for dealing with gal targets, some utility high neuts to help with amarr, and caldari you just brawl to the death. I hate that I cant fly my favorite ships or style as much any more.

Im a wormhole pilot typically, and missiles are the dominant force in wormhole space. I dont hate missiles per se, but I think the autocannon brawling style should really fit in wormhole space..

Suggestion - I think you should consider some baseline buffs to certain underperforming minmatar boats, especially base tank. Lots of minmatar ships have relatively weak tank options. The biggest change should be around the guns themselves and around the ammo we use. For example, why cant cruisers fit the biggest medium guns?? Even a hurricane struggles to get 425s and a tank at the same time.

Secondly, consider some changes to projectile ammo. I almost always shoot hail now because my damage is too anemic otherwise. Barrage is next to useless, as the damage falls off so fast even at short distances, its basically using blasters.

Im happy with the rupture buff, I do wish I could use a loki with guns again, even though its so dominant with missiles.
T1 Battleships are a whole thread on their own, but minmatar has always felt weak tankwise here.

[sacred juniper]

Ratio

https://zkillboard.com/character/91445834/

[dusty ibex]

https://zkillboard.com/kill/128501022/

Someone get him! He stole one of my Loki fits from my brain cells.

Although I don’t understand the scram

[urban pawn]

I don't understand where most of this is coming from

ACs do need a buff but so do other close range weapon systems

It's not like they are exceptionally bad

And barrage definitely is not the issue

And as for the fitting thing - I think that's what every weapon system should be like

180s/220s/425s are all valid in different scenarios, that doesn't exist for other weapon systems

[dusty ibex]

Blasters could use some range i feel. Electrons feel pretty awful.

[jagged panther]

Ah, so the play is for ESS defenders to sit around in 3-4 cloaked projection marauders 200+ km from the warpin inside the ESS.

If you come in something small enough they decloak and volley you. You can't get out of the ESS bubble fast enough to warp.

A single marauder is honestly not a huge threat. I've used 100mn T3Cs to mitigate damage and chase them away/go for kills.

But they can deploy 3-4 in a formation so that you can't get good angular against all of them at once, so they pretty much kill any single thing.

And if you bring a fleet they can simply not decloak and you'll never even know they're there.

You can't MJD to them, can't combat probe them, no MWDs or tackle allowed in.

So it just seems like a bit of a 0 counterplay full safety strategy and I think it's already probably not really the intent for cloaked stuff to be chilling in there anyway. I've heard various fix options like money not accumulating when someone is inside, but it all seems to introduce more other issues than just expanding the decloaking object.

fly it and find success then dude idk what to tell you. Everyone who is actually out there pvping and wanting to fly it has looked and gone "hmmmm I'm not sure this ship works compared to the other min T1/faction destroyers, at 5x+ of the cost."

Again though prove that wrong if this is your opinion, but most of what I see you do is talk not act. Like you have 0 Mekubal kills so...

[sacred juniper]

tbh if people are willing to commit 3-4 toons to defending frivolous pocket change let them have it lol

[jagged panther]

Yeah it's more about the meta being a healthy place for pvp. That's what ESS are for, and I think this is a pretty harmful trend for that

I know a fair few people who basically said the same you did, and guess what they're not doing? ESS pvp

well, anymore

[sacred juniper]

No matter how you change the means you cant change the player mindset

If somebody wants to deny you from stealing they will

[ebon turret]

it's an arms race but there's still value in relatively easy solutions to force another round of degenerate innovation

ultimately as ralli said the ess is intended to be a pvp incentive by providing ante for ratters

[exotic needle]

Bro is still getting baited by mlint

[jagged panther]

Honestly fair yeah lol

[jagged panther]

And that's true but to me the issue is mostly how risk averse it is. Most other strategies, they may still deny the steal but there is opportunity for things to happen.

Hell even 1 cloaked marauder isn't that bad and I kinda love to see a solo arty vargur decloak because I will go point him and he can't do shit

[ebon turret]

personally i think the mekubal should be buffed in a way that leads it to have some unique strength compared to the TFI

the TFI does more dps, i think the mekubal should be incentivised as a fast artillery destroyer

[sacred juniper]

idk ess at its core is very lame you fix one thing and something else will pop up, i dont think ive touched my tengu is like half a year now

no reward the gameplay is the same the meta is the same

the responses are the same

[jagged panther]

What is the next thing to pop up tho

Because I think this is a pretty easy low drag change where you don't affect the wider meta at all, so kind of low hanging fruit to cut off one of the ways that is a detriment to the meta

And then yeah maybe there's something else that comes up, but I'll believe it when I see it you know? Not saying it's impossible, but someone has to come up with something it can't just be assumed

That's how you make incremental progress

[sacred juniper]

depends if u care about stealing money or getting a fight but honestly best way for both it to throw an alt in and fight outside

otherwise ur just griefing ur experience

by flying same 3 ships that require 2 buttons to fly

[jagged panther]

Either way, same effect

[soft ingot]

still scrolling scrolling but i bet this is the best post in this channel today

aint no way ppl are being like buff titans still 💀

[soft ingot]

good change barghests are boring

[jagged panther]

I disagree though, inside is cool, I think it's a fun meta with no MWDs or small stuff. Kind of like FW, it's a nice changeup from the standard sorts of metas on "normal" grids (aka nullsec or non fw low)

[sacred juniper]

i think ess is just inherently a bad idea because its behind acceleration gate

[soft ingot]

when ur just shooting from 240 with double sigamp

[jagged panther]

Throwing the alt in also just...... dies to marauders and no need for them to respond?

If they're in there

So idk what that is supposed to solve

[jagged panther]

Same with fw then? I don't mind this aspect at all, it makes brawling more viable for one, and its not like you can't kite in there you just have to get in first or be sure that you're able to get off vs. whatever they have

[sacred juniper]

kind of like fw
so an elaborate downgrade

[jagged panther]

Idk man it's fine if you don't enjoy FW or ESS, but that's just a preference for content you know?

I don't really go for TiDi structure fights. Not my thing. But some people love it apparently

[sacred juniper]

you can look my tengu kills its all inside ess like 250

but its just lame

sleeper pvp

[jagged panther]

I've had a lot of great 1vX fights in ESS that wouldn't be very possible outside

[jagged panther]

I don't know who you are but obviously not this guy :p

[sacred juniper]

oh right

[jagged panther]

Yeah, I mean I believe you though I have nearly 700 tengu kills most of which are ESS, but also not on Ralli. So suffice to say we have both done the thing at least

[steep needle]

scvrch

(https://zkillboard.com/character/97130935/)

[sacred juniper]

🐷

[steep needle]

meatride emoji

[sacred juniper]

my top 5 ships actually so based sleipnir male bifrost legion tengu

[jagged panther]

They good ships

[south moss]

When scimi sandard fit had whore gun 🙂 :

[elder hollow]

this thread started out fine and then descended into yap

please no yap

[steep needle]

its tough since its a lot like #csm-chatter

shit take gets posted
people feel obligated to respond to shit take
200 posts later

[eternal latch]

I think we should take a look at Stabber fleet issue.
It's speed is meh it's tank is a not great. It's fitting could be better.
It just seems like the most underused cruiser for its cost. Even after it's buffs it's underperforming

[desert adder]

you need a whore gun???

[jagged silo]

This seems to have gone off the rails a bit but an actual suggestion:

Hugins make it feel like fleets either have to brawl or kite out past 90km. The base lock range of 150km (which is needed for the TP bonus) makes it tricky to counter them with damps. Would love to see some iteration that opened up more mid range skirmishing rather than pushing things to kite further and further. Maybe one ship shouldn't be bonused for two different types of application support.

[leaden jay]

Delete drone assist. Allowing an FC (or let’s be honest, a char with 9 alts) to attack for the fleet with perfect scynronicity with 1 button is not good gameplay

[restive bay]

@jagged silo

do this for the range bonuses on Gallente/Minmatar Recons

that and/or convert the heat bonus of webs from range to strength

[jagged silo]

I'm not sure I'm opposed to long range webs totally but I would like it to be easier to counter them

[vocal sandal]

Cyno's need nerfed. There needs to be a cap on how many can jump to one cyno. The bridging entire fleets makes the battles 1,000+ almost instantly and really the lag isn't fun.
Also carriers are kinda useless, fighters need to warp to and from targets if you want to have them far off in the distance, makes no sense they can warp home but not to the target. Old carrier fighters were better.

[leaden jay]

Update/improve mobile observatories in some way. Currently you’re paying double to cost of a cov ops you’re trying to catch on the off chance they’re not AFK. There’s still basically no counterplay to cloaking ships that just hang out. Make MobObs scoopable, or 5 times cheaper, faster to anchor, remove the 15 minute immunity, faster/better pings or some combo.

[restive bay]

they already counter what they were added to counter, which is afk cloaky camping

you cant be afk anymore

those changes would kill hyper super gameplay almost entirely too lol

they are a bad mechanic, however, they werent meant to stop active camping

[south moss]

If you nerf webs, you gonna fight more 100mn shit. Have fun with that. Huggins are already way weaker than Lachesis and you need a lot of them to keep webs alive

[restive bay]

tbh i think thats fine

100mn comps are more skill intensive to fight and fc

and vulnerable to other stuff

plus they arent applicable in lots of scenarios

[desert adder]

Lmao

[leaden jay]

I mean I’d love a ground up rewrite of cloaking, featuring sonar like ships that can hunt them, triangulating mechanics to close in on them but that’s not a realistic ask. Regardless, coming out of an afk cloak camper trade down on isk guaranteed is hardly good, so a “easy” improvement is make MobObs cheaper or scoopable

[novel scaffold]

obs were specifically added for afk cloaky camping

[south moss]

alternatively, htfu. MobObs already killed afk camping

[novel scaffold]

not for catching ppl who are not afk

[restive bay]

yep

[south moss]

players have a right to cloaky camp you, it's part of the game

[novel scaffold]

also this thread is getting way off topic from ship balancing

[jagged silo]

Weaker in what way?

[restive bay]

range

[digital basalt]

Horrible take

[deep fox]

100mn cfi comps are braindead easy to fly and fc wtf are you on about

[desert adder]

Maybe he’s planning to join sc?

[gloomy vector]

in one day

[vestal rapids]

Feedback from strongest feelings to least strongest

**Feedback **- Lock range of 300km is too limiting in the games current meta, especially for BS and up ships.
**Reason **- The addition of larger grids and things like carrier mjds, zrins place in the dread meta, titan DDs and more makes the 300km range cap oppressive for considering fleet options at the capital scale. Leaving little room to experiment.
**Suggestion **(Optional) - Just uncap it like carriers and leave it as is for now to see how the meta adjusts. Most ships wouldnt see this be useful but some like sniper bs and sniper dreads could see great use of it with MJD carriers in the mix.

**Feedback **- Carriers suck, are too expensive, and the fun parts of them are chained off only to supers which rarely see real use due to the price points.
**Reason **- I like carriers and want to see them shine in their own fun way to which lots of really cool and well built game options are locked behind supers that aren't the carrier's bigger brother’s given meta purpose
**Suggestion **(Optional) - Normal T1 carriers should either be reduced in cost or given more HP across the board. They should be able to fit the Tactical Capsuleer Recloner, which for itself; the drug used for the tactical recloner needs to be easier to find bpcs for, as well as the drug instantly poding its user upon ship destruction, or reduce self destruction time to near zero. This is critically important to its use, otherwise even with its addition the function is practically useless. If the ship stays at the more expensive price point I also suggest letting it use Burst projectors as they are awesome and also critically under utilized due to being super locked atm.

**Feedback **- The battleship plate and extender EHP bonus devalues smaller ship hull options and gives them oppressive staying power med to small man fleets vs smaller hulls
**Reason **- I like battlecruisers and hacs and feel they are pretty much worthless to bring if the opponents bring battleships to an engagement, as the increase to EHP given by the plate/extender bonus is far too strong and lets them easily catch.
**Suggestion **(Optional) - Battleships plate and extender bonuses should be replaced with an increase in raw hull hp 30% and a small 5ish+% increase for armor and shield resists. This has the benefit of keeping the ehp high and giving the ships better survivability if caught, but lowers the threshold of them getting caught while also giving bs better active tanking options and more powerful hulltanks. Idk if this is the right answer I just know that the plate changes made BS too good in my eyes.

**Feedback **- Frigates don't feel like a good option in most content as well as being too easy to hit and too fragile when they are.
**Reason **- I want to fly fun ships and not feel they are just inherently bad choices outside of any constraints put on the combat area. Facwar is fun but your being forced into frigate’s and we all know people upship if able.
**Suggestion **(Optional) - Reduce the signature radius say 10% and see what happens, hopefully it makes them more competitive outside of environments tailored to them.

Thank you @pulsar dock for putting up with all us nerds.

PS I really really would love Assault bomber frigates. Just take the Stealthbombers we have now and remove the cloak, up the hp and fitting, add assault damage control, mwd sig reduction. Would be kickass and fun to shakeup the meta.

[gloomy vector]

😎

I want 1000 km rails!

[restive bay]

300km max targeting range isnt real

it cannot hurt you

[jagged panther]

You know in retrospect it might have been more manageable to create a forum channel and have us open a topic for each feedback/reason/suggestion post

At least it organizes the inevitable yap

[hot arrow]

Feedback: Naglfar is currently the worst dread in almost all content aside from C6 wormhole farming

Reason: Naglfar’s “niche” is that it’s meant to be the active tanked shield dread, like how a Moros is the better active tanked armour dread. The T1 Naglfar’s bonus while slightly better on paper than a Phoenix, is both not enough to overcome the extra mid slot on the Phoenix but is also less cap efficient than a Phoenix, in particular when “inject tanking” (cycling the cap and shield boosters on the same tick to avoid neuts) the bonus does absolutely nothing.

Suggestions: change the existing 5% shield booster rate of fire bonus to a 7.5% repair amount bonus, this is only a minor raw eHP advantage, but it makes the tank significantly more capacitor efficient.

[sonic pebble]

Its already got that ability.

[restive bay]

ye would be a good change

[hot arrow]

Feedback: Claymore and Damnation are flown entirely in support/pure links roles, while all the other command ships see active PvP usage.

Reason: Claymore and Damnation both have very poor damage - while the Nighthawk has the outright best/tied best effective launchers in the medium ship class, the Claymore has less than a Drake and the Damnation is comparable to a T1 Cyclone!

They both have range bonuses but do not have enough damage to make any real use of them.

Suggestions:
Damnation: Change the Missile range bonus to a Heavy assault missile damage bonus (7.5%/level)

This brings the damage up to be
Comparable to a Drake Navy or Cyclone fleet (10.3125 effective launchers vs 10.5 or 9.6 respectively) while limiting the ship to slow heavy brawls with the limited HAM range.

Claymore: Change one of the rate of fire bonuses to a 10% damage bonus, this is very slightly below the Damnation, plus it has less volley damage, but it has the flexibility to use the HMLs and be a reasonably kiting ship (~10 effective launchers, again between the CyFI and Drake Navy, but closer to the former than the latter).

[hollow rapids]

Feedback:
Make the Stratios bonused for armor reps

Reason:
Stratios has a role bonus almost never used (laser range) and lacks a defined role. These changes would make the stratios a cloaky logi with strong, but very short ranged armor reps. This would be distinctly different from T3C cloaky logi in that the Stratious would have relatively short ranged, bonused amount, but no cap bonuses. T3C logi are much longer ranged, bonusesd for cap usage, but not amount (Though they have more high slots).

This would make the Stratios a cheaper, faster, and more small gang logi/DPS that is worthy of it's high price tag, while not stepping on the toes of dedicated cloaky fleet T3C logi because it cannot sustain reps and lacks the rep range. This makes it similar to the Nestor: logi focused, but able to contribute via bonused drones.

Suggestion:
Remove 50% Bonus to medium Laser optimal
Add 50% Bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount
Add 100% Bonus to Remote Armor Repairer optimal and falloff

[rich crystal]

Feedback: Large Beam Laser Capacitor use, and Tachyon Powergrid

Reason: The flagship Amarr battleship, the Apoc Navy, can’t even fit T2 tachyons and anything else without using 2 or more fitting mods. Being relegated to Mega Beams makes it the lowest dps long range battleship, which is supposed to be the role of Artillery. All Amarr battleships suffer mightily on the capacitor side using large beams as well, leading coalitions to slap artilleries on these hulls rather than the turrets they are bonused for. Mega beams and an MWD use more cap than a heavy cap booster chugging 800s on an Apoc Navy.

Suggestion: Reduce cap usage for all large beams, and reduce Tachyon powergrid cost so ships other than the 4-turreted Bhaalgorn and Nightmare can reasonably use them.

[sonic pebble]

No to the bonus removal...because the Stratios has longer range capacity...and was initially designed to interact with the WH sites.

If you want something adjusted +1 high slot.
Additional Capacitor.

[sonic pebble]

I would think 1600 cap battery needs to be added to game.

But the Tachyons are a bit too difficult to fit in many situations.

[rich crystal]

Artybaddon meta should have flagged that something was wrong with large lasers when it was preferable to use unbonused weapons.

Feedback item 2: Non-Redeemer Blops

Reason:
Currently the redeemer is considered the king of blops, thanks to it having the trifecta of the most tank, the most dps, and the strongest EWAR (bonused neuts). Just take a look at all of nullsec to see that every blops fleet centers and relies on this hull over all others (excepting the Marshal). If the Redeemer is the yardstick of where a blops should be, then the other 3 may need some strength added to get them there. If the redeemer is too strong, it needs something to bring it down to the level of the others.

Suggestion:
Adjust Panther to having a 8/7/4 slot layout so it can actually shield tank, so there actually are 2 armor and 2 shield Blops. Having more lows than mids forces the ‘fast’ ship to use the ‘slow’ tank profile, and makes it very hard to fit 800mm autocannons with the powergrid of 1600mm plates.

Make the Sin more focused on drone damage so it doesn’t have to use twice as many damage mods to get the same damage bonus. Perhaps also move drone bonus to velocity instead of optimal range as well to improve the usability of heavy drones, as dropping in at 0 makes sentries awkward.

Widow may need an ewar bonus rethink since the change to ECM that lets the jammed target target you back. A widow that jams its target leaves the widow a slot down in a solo drop engagement. An application bonus rather than range to torps and cruise missiles would also help it a lot, as a blops firing at 300km away isn’t really the platform's modus operandi.

Else, reduce the Redeemer powergrid to force it to choose between its DPS, its tank, or its heavy neuts. Right now it has the powergrid to get all of the above without fitting mods.

[rich crystal]

Feedback Item 3: The Damavik
Reason:
The Damavik is in an awkward place due to the strength of the kikimora thanks to the strength of optimal range bonuses on trig weapons. It needs something to give it a point of use the kiki would not go. Its resist bonus and lack of range bonus says that should be a brawl, but its tank is pretty thin, making its only viable target other frigates.

Sugestion:
I think the Damavik could improve its strength with 2 options: 1.) Something around a 25% speed buff, to make it an interceptor/kitey ship hunter, where it isn’t intended to brawl other brawlers 2.) Powergrid buff to let it fit a 400mm plate, mwd, and those neuts it is bonused to without need of a fitting mod. Would need maybe 10 more base powergrid. A few CPU would also go a long way to letting this pirate faction frigate not have to meta half of its mods to get them to fit.

[sonic pebble]

I think the Damavik needs a bit longer range on its weapon.

We see Nergals...but not Damaviks.

[hollow rapids]

Anything you require 3 unbonused laser turrets for can be done significantly better with bonused sentries.

[rich crystal]

I think the damavik can be fine without a range bonus as long as it has the speed to make sure it gets in/stays in rane. That would give it a very different identity as a brawler vs the kitey nergal and kiki and, well, every other trig platform ship.

Feedback Item 4: T1 Cruisers for Fleet Doctrines

Reason:
The T1 cruiser fleet seems mostly dead as a concept save for ESS whelp fleets. With the caracal losing its bonuses to RLMLs, the last t1 cruiser fleet platform faded. Some of this is due to cost, where a fully fit T1 cruiser now costs around 40-45 mil, rather than the 30-ish it used to. But I think a little life could be given to T1 cruisers to give them more life as a fun fleet doctrine.

Suggestion:
Caracal: Change the rate of fire bonus to a 7.5%/level damage bonus so it has the volley to kill things through fleet reps.

Moa: Increase speed by around 15%. This thing is slower than a tornado yo.

Rupture: Needs just a little more damage to make it special. Maybe move to 5 turret hardpoints with a 5% damage/level bonus (6 effective turrets to 6.5), also makes it more new player friendly as it has more dps with lower Skill points)

Maller: My boy needs some capacitor. He’s so hungry that he isn’t even cap stable with just 4 of its 5 turrets as beam lasers and nothing else.

Omen: Wastes a hull bonus on turret cap usage to offset its other hull bonus of rate of fire. Give it a chunk more base capacitor, and a second useful hull bonus, such as optimal range/tracking speed combo (5%/level?). Also has not the powergrid to fit long range weapons plus mwd, let alone tank. May need some powergrid too. (side note, I think that if any ship hulls require spending one of its hull bonuses on a buns that is required to let it use its intended weapon platform, that weapon platform needs attention, cough Amarr laser capacitor bonuses cough)

Feedback Item 5: The Svipul
Reason:
The Svipul has faded into obscurity over the years, mostly taking a backseat to the Hecate in the field of a brawling platform. And given that the Svipul has a max range of 12km with autocannons, that makes it a brawler. The Hecate is just better there, with a ton more dps, and ability to fit webs to stay in range thanks to its hull tank capabilities.

Suggetion:
Lean into the Svipul being a minmatar ship. Give it about a 15% speed buff to give it independence from the Hecate, and let it go chase frigs and run away from kitey cruisers. Additionally, give it ability to fit arties again. It takes at least 2 fitting mods to be able to reasonably fit 280mm artillery, 5mn MWD, medium shield extender, and the rest of the modules in a normal fit. Needs either more powergrid or more CPU so it only need 1 fitting mod to get the job done.

[sonic pebble]

Feedback: Stabber vs. Rupture Changes. [Post Legion]
I think the Rupture needs rework still, the change for more tracking needs to be re-assessed for the Rupture because it has lost not only DPS [due to rate of fire bonus being removed] but its weapon ranges are too low. Both T1 ship Stabber and Rupture are matched turret number wise. But their effectiveness is wildly different.

If you were to pit a 50MWD/10AB Stabber versus a 50MWD/10AB Rupture. Some big problems come into play very fast. The Stabber with its falloff bonuses starts to show it can do alot of damage to the Rupture. In 10km orbits...

The Stabber applies 93% hit with Barrage and 83% hit with Hail on a 50MWD Rupture. Versus a 10AB Rupture its 76% hit with Barrage. And 68% Hail.

Rupture applies to a 50MWD Stabber 88% hit with Barrage and 69% Hail. Versus a 10AB Stabber its 65% hit with Barrage and 50% Hail. As you can see bad performance in weapon application.

Reason: Rupture needs more range [optimal/falloff for its guns] even with "superior" tracking. Its under performing. It has fairly long targeting range but its weaponry can't even reach that range. [Especially artillery] The original rate of fire...allowed it to spray and pray and make hits. If we want to see more of it...it needs more work. [I personally disliked how it was handled...there were better ways to improve it...and the "buff" was a nerf.]

Suggestions: Either Reinstate the Ruptures Rate of Fire Bonus.
Add a Falloff bonus or Optimal Bonus to Projectile Weapons.
Or leave the tracking...but please for Bobs sake add some falloff/optimal.
Or increase the hulls base speed...its geractrically slow for what it is even under effects of AB and MWD.

**Feedback: **Svipul Signature Problem. The Svipul has a variety of problems since several patches etc. Ironically the Svipul is not the smallest signature T3D...but the Confessor is. Which is uncharacteristically odd for a Minmatar Ship.

**Reasons: **I think the Svipul should be given a smaller signature radius to keep in theme with Minmatar usage of Speed/Signature Tanking as part of its tactical repetoire. Currently due to this an other issues. The Svipul isn't as well used. [Probably visually its kind of wonky too.]

Suggestions: Lower the Svipul signature as part of various upgrades to the hulls problems to give it some capabilities to sig/speed tank.

[sonic pebble]

True its also one of the smallest signature ships as well...so it can speed/sig tank in some situations as well.

[sonic pebble]

Hence...why I said +1 highslot. You can get more firepower and range. The Stratios without really struggling can fire over 100km with beams. Your Pulses can go 50km. If you are letting anything inside 60km of a Stratios you have goofed up. That is also being generous because the Sentries can fire only at targets inside the 60km radius. It can go 150km+ with beams on some fits.

If not more.

Although I am more inclined to allow it access to Nullifier kit

to allow it roam again in nullsec more often.

[sonic pebble]

Heh...Mordus Legion would like to have a word.

Although Blackholes are a weirder spot...because it theoretically can extend missile ranges way further than even 300km

[hot arrow]

The Widow already sees reasonable use both in BLOPs and as an entire comp on its own.

[nimble sage]

nobody uses the Sin and Panther anyway

[sonic pebble]

Its not to be flown like a Thrasher or TFI.

You can pick the fights. You can get sub 2 sec align. You can fit weapons in creative combinations, you can overprop and build a fit around it + other options. I don't think people have figured out its potential because people apply traditional destroyer PVP concepts to it. You have to think a bit outside the box with it.

[sonic pebble]

Looks over...sweats...Drake would like to have a word.

[sacred juniper]

people be writing novels then u open their kb and this is what u see xd

https://zkillboard.com/character/92467297/

[sonic pebble]

Who cares, if someone is using a ship and has some pointers let them say their piece.

[warm path]

@restive bay @slate shale Mauraders need a nerf???? https://zkillboard.com/kill/128598550/

[restive bay]

shitfit 2 xlasb and arty lmao

vs 3 blaster brutixes

no shit he died

[knotty rune]

Feedback - Buffer Blops have too much EHP. The combination of T2 resists, implants, command links and the BS buffer bonus gives armor Redeemer / Marshal / Panther >430k EHP

Reason - This enables a very safe but boring N+1 doctrine. Defensively, you can drop them via covert cyno, kill any cyno inhib and light a regular cyno from the same Blops for FAX support. Offensively, you can drop ~50 redeemers on a capital and the capital doesn't have enough DPS to chew through even a couple of them. I want to see capitals being used for both these situations instead again and to make this doctrine more "glass-cannon" - appropriate in some, but not all situations.
In Revenant patch notes CCP removed marauder buffer tank bonuses (https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/revenant-expansion-notes). This was justified by multiboxing buffer doctrines being over-used just in Pochven. For the last >year, every NS group that can assemble >50 people has been using the Redeemer doctrine.

**Suggestion - Remove buffer bonuses from Blops, just like you did for marauders. **
Please remove the buffer bonus from Blops (so from all T2 BSs) to make this safe Redeemer N+1 doctrine more risky to use, and to bring back capitals being used in the past.

[rich crystal]

I had a similar notion about the power of the Deemer an dMarshal vs the other blops. another path I considered was reducing powergrid on the deemer so it can't fit all of its utility, tank, and damage, and must choose between them.

[knotty rune]

Yeah, removing enough PG to prevent triple-plating was another idea I had, but it would punish non-buffer fits and it's a lot more difficult due to having to balance it across several blops.

[rich crystal]

Even with dual plate it has 30% more ehp than other blops. I'm saying reduce its PG enough that it has to choose between top tier guns, 2 plates, and heavy neut. I want to force one of those to be dropped. You want max dps and utility? not dual plate for you. (unless you invest in a fitting mod, which also reduces tank or dps)

[ebon turret]

Wow this might actually be the worst vargur fit I've ever seen

[warm path]

he MJD'd and we still went and got scram on him. Osprey had tracking disrupt too. crazy what happens when you play it right. #NoMauraderNerf

[ebon turret]

Can I go feed a ferox navy with lasers and a plate and claim it needs a buff

[warm path]

doesnt need a buff. just shouldnt be nerfed

just because bad pilots like @slate shale cant kill it with their 3 cruisers doesnt mean you nerf it

night!

[sonic pebble]

Looks over

Not exactly would say.

But in the role its supposed to be...maybe Feroxes need the Fleet Booster stripped out?

And the T2 plays Command Ship?

[novel scaffold]

bro you linked an absolute shit fit vargur

[sonic pebble]

actually a question...how long did it take?

[novel scaffold]

also ironic you say this and link a vargur that actually is killable by 3 cruisers

[charred rose]

Turns out anything is killable when the pilot is

[keen kindle]

actually question, meuraders need a nerf? https://zkillboard.com/kill/123332703/ if u can't can't come up with a good working fit, it dosn't mean the ship doesn't work. https://zkillboard.com/kill/123527975/

[charred rose]

616k damage taken versus 50 people got damn

[civic lantern]

„Nerf nerf nerf“

A lot of crybabies in here, you shouldnt be able to run crab beacons in your shitty dreads in total safety

U already got supers for that

Blops are fine

@pulsar dock buff carriers so they are actually ratting and out in space again

Its been an issue for years

[ornate flint]

**Feedback **- Nagfar needs love
**Reason **- I have a Naglfar and always hear "bring whatever Dreadnought as long as it's not a Naglfar!
**Suggestion (Optional) **- The Naglfar's EHP is lacking, which is why other dreadnoughts are preferred for both dread bombs and CRAB, i.e. most dread activities. Maybe buff it a bit?

I'd love to see Naglfars used again.

Next, the Sin.

Feedback - Swap out that awful Sin 'logi drone' bonus for something useful
Reason - Back when all the blops were buffed the Sin - a damage drone boat - got a useless mediocre bonus to even worse drones that directly conflicts with it's main role as drone damage boat. I've rarely ever seen Sins used since then. Sometimes Panthers, more often Widows but most of the times it's Redeemers, Redeemers and a few dozen more Redeemers.
**Suggestion (Optional) - **Switch the logi drone bonus of the Sin for something it can use while using damage drones:

• A turret bonus (like Deemer/Panther), for example hybrid tracking
• An EWAR bonus (like Widow), for example sensor dampening strength
• A drone bonus, for example drone speed. Or maybe even more drone damage. It's a T2 drone battleship after all, it doesn't need to do the same drone damage as a cruiser.

Just replace that Sin logi drone bonus please.

[sonic pebble]

Feedback - Buff Mobile assets. The Deployment Speeds of Mobile Assets need to be faster.

Mobile Cyno Jammer needs to be able to be dropped quicker and its effect radius needs to be increased to cover stations. [75km off a station...but only 100km action zone is kind of wild.]

Mobile Observatory needs to be a scan down object...not something anyone can just jump to as soon as it deploys. Faster deployment as well.

Mobile Cynos [Normal/Covert] Faster deployment...so one can deploy a web of cynos for usage...and then be able to interact with it from a small/solo perspective.

All other Mobile assets...need faster deployment times so they are valuable to players needing a tactical solution...either solo/small gangs.

Reason - Mobile Assets are relatively deployment clunky and not usable as offensive/defensive/tactica options...I think you would see more usage if they were a bit faster on deployment.

Suggestions- Obvious...speed up Mobile Asset Deployment. [Maybe Make Mobile Observatory a scan down object instead of an instant jump to item so it gets some usage] [And increase action/effect radius of the Mobile Cyno Jammer to like 150km...or allow it to be deployed closer to stations...current 75km range doesn't help it.]

[sharp osprey]

Things I think are worth a look at:

Marauder cost/tank - I think marauders cost too much for their current fragility, either a slight increase to tank or a decrease in cost would go a long way here.
Cenotaph - I see the wormhole complaints, if you are going to nerf the launcher, can you perhaps make the ship still useful, at the moment it feels ok, but not amazing in the rest of space.
T1 Hulls - In general these are lackluster
Carriers - They need a role, fighters for them suck or are clunky. I would like to see a full carrier rework, conduit was great, boosh is great, if the ship itsself was capable of also doing something I think that would be amazing. At the moment you are just better with a navy dread all the time every time. This could be addressed with cost point tinkering, but I think it would be better to just find a raw damage point or target set for carriers to be good into and then turn them into a tool?
Any ship requiring LP - most of these just feel too good, and thats great, lift everything else
T2 Dreads - When?
Tornado spam - the instawarp bounce nados are just awful to fly/deal with
Vexors - Change to make these a less optimal botting target, anything requiring active management would fix

[slate shale]

Dont interact lol. This mofo told mira chieve to git gut and just bring more people

You know, like top 10 best player in the game

[abstract prism]

If only we could react to some of these replies, sheesh

[steep needle]

This would've been better as a forum channel

[wooden folio]

Feedback - Make ECM not be color coded anymore

Reason - Colur blindness is a thing

Suggestion (Optional) Code them by letters C(aldari), A(marr), G(allente) and M(atar) instead of colour

[nimble sage]

Update to thier Icon?

[wooden folio]

mhm

[coral night]

Feedback The Malestrom has been too weak of an active tanker for too long.

Reason With a T2 tank and a propulsion mod, it appears to have tank comparable to most ships of similar size and cost. However, this is without a scram and web fitted. If the necessary mods to establish range control are added, tank suffers considerably.

Suggestion Significant increase in shield booster amount bonus. To start, double what it's getting now and keep increasing as necessary.

• Active tank bonuses on anything but the FAX are useless in larger fleet fights. This wouldn't affect the fleet fight meta at all. It would only affect small-scale fights.
• Ships deserve some measure of range control or they deserve to be able to out-damage and out-tank all similar ships in their engagement profile across all engagement ranges.
• DO NOT buff the maelstrom's DPS, speed, projection, or EHP. This allows it to eclipse the Tempest's role as the "economy" fleet fight artillery platform.
• Edit: DO NOT add mid slots. This also increases EHP.

[wooden folio]

issue with adding to tank bonuses is the scaling of those tho

add crystals, include triple xlasb and other silliness...

[north oriole]

Bringing other battleships up to the level of the rokh would be preferable to just nerfing the rokh.

Megathron, give it back its utility high.
Maelstrom, needs another mid.
Abaddon, has had a capacitor issue for 19 years, reduce cap use on guns
Apoc, more cpu.

[wooden folio]

a damage bonus on apoc would be neat

[coral night]

sigh if you add a mid to the malestrom it adds to the EHP. Again, you eclipse the Tempest.

[south moss]

what cap issue on abaddon.... so many ways to solve it

[north oriole]

Which is also shit and needs fixing

Also, this is ccp devs asking for feedback, not a playground for nerds to minmax over everyone elses opinions.

I have no solution or insight to small gang / solo use of ships, so I dont offer advice or opinions on them.

However I do know people think the rokh is oppressive on large scale fleets, and it is because the other battleships are terrible, not because the rokh is amazing.

[coral night]

Feedback Give the Raven a role bonus which substantially increases missile HP so it can be impervious to smartbomb screening.

Background Missiles have HP. Smartbombs can kill missiles mid flight. Therefore, a single ship with smartbombs can be positioned right in front of your fleet to "screen" them from missiles. This is effectively a hard-counter to all missile platforms.

Reason Obviously, people are fans of the woosh. People who choose to fly Caldari are even more so. It kinda makes sense in the lore for at least one hull to be able to be impervious to smartbomb screening by now. The Caldari scientists would have realized their doctrines were severely handicapped. I like smartbomb screening. It's an extremely inventive use of a little known neuance in the game mechanics. Hard counters deserve to exist. But it's a little oppressive to hard counter an entire skill tree for every ship using that in the game.

Suggestion Give the Raven a hull bonus which allows cruise missiles to survive 40 smartbomb blasts (5x nestors). Then, a year later, give that same bonus to the Typhoon, saying the Minmatar "stole" it.

• DO NOT give this bonus to the Drake. The high resistance and range of the Drake will enable it to be like the FNI and will make it oppressive in the fleet fight meta.

[devout sage]

Why do Titan modules have the same HP as small ships (40 HP)? Maybe give large ships some kind of bonus to module HP? Considering the difficulties of turning on/off overheating in TiDi, this could indirectly help with this problem. For example, give Titans a bonus of +100% module HP per level, so there will be 240 HP, which is clearly good and logical for me. Correct me if I'm wrong somewhere 😄

[steep needle]

40 + 100% is not 240

Larger ships also already have a reduced heat damage modifier built into the ship size

[devout sage]

+100% per level skill

[steep needle]

Missed that

Still

[ebon turret]

It's because the Rokh is the most non-committal which is a nullsec specialty

It's the same reason FNIs and Nagas are used

Because why commit when you can snipe at 200km

[devout sage]

This reduces the chance, but it actually increases the overheating of the models.

[ebon turret]

Giving the megathron a utility high won't make it any better relative to the Rokh, for the rokhs use case

[steep needle]

Titans generate 75% less heat then a frigate so they already have "essentially" 160 module hp

[ebon turret]

Jesus Christ, no.

[devout sage]

And how long do the modules last? I was told 2.5 minutes, which is not very long.

[steep needle]

That is very long

[devout sage]

That's 20 shield module activations, which is not much considering the lag/TiDi.

[wooden folio]

you have a fitting service, just deaggro and fit a new module for the cooked one

[steep needle]

maybe if you played the game youd know how long 2.5 minutes of straight heating is

[coral night]

Care to elaborate? Is it because I assigned it to a long-range platform (the Raven)?

[ebon turret]

Because firewalling is a legitimate strategy and removing it to make missiles uncounterable is dumb.

[devout sage]

2.5 minutes on large ships is slightly longer than on small ones. In TiDi, it's 25 minutes in total, but in lags it's unbearable; by the time you turn them on, it will already be burned out.

[ebon turret]

Don't play in Tidi then

[wooden folio]

or dont take the risk of heating in tidi

[steep needle]

2.5 minutes is not slightly longer then what small ships do

[coral night]

What? There's nothing similar for hybrids, projectiles, or lasers. How come ALL missile platforms get the shaft? I'm only saying remove the hard counter for select ships to bolster their fleet fight effectiveness.

[ebon turret]

Good news, guns can miss

[coral night]

The hard counter for all other missile platforms would still exist.

[ebon turret]

Pov you heated your 5mn mwd for two (2) cycles

[coral night]

Ok. You must be trolling me. Obviously missiles have an application formula, have limited range, and can be disrupted just like guns can. They can "miss" too.

[north oriole]

The place with no bubbles complaining about non commital?

[steep needle]

20 seconds of agony and its over

imagine if your frigate could heat all its mods at once for 2.5 minutes

[wooden folio]

you could always, i dunno, fire from an angle that doesnt hit the smartbombs

[ebon turret]

It was just a lil jab bro

But 1) we do have bubbles half the time and 2) bubbles and dictors are easier to clear than slaved mach's and TFIs

In any case my point stands, buffing the other t1 battleships in the way you suggested won't make them competitive with the Rokh

In the same way giving another high to the brutix won't make it competitive with the naga

[devout sage]

[wooden folio]

but what if we compensate by giving naga +1 high, too?

[north oriole]

Low sec does not take bubbling into account with its doctrines. Null sec does.

Rokhs are the pick because they do okay damage, across very long range, with good omni tank, cap booster and are able to mwd to speed

[dapper ruin]

Just commit

Who cares about bubbles

[ebon turret]

Yes, and if you give the megathron a utility high none of those factors change, for either ship

[dapper ruin]

Ram the enemy fleet head first

[north oriole]

I dont have the time or patience to educate you on how large scale nullsec fights work.

[ebon turret]

Ok

[north oriole]

Not you

[ebon turret]

Oh

[north oriole]

Pixy

[ebon turret]

Lol

[north oriole]

"Just commit" is like saying "just stop feeling sick bro"

[wooden folio]

heaven forbid someone loses a ship

[north oriole]

Having a heavy neut, on a good omni ship, with decent range and very good speed is a good thing

Without the utility high, its just a shit armor rokh

[deep fox]

The mega navy is also just a shit armor rokh and it has the utility high

[wooden folio]

because you armortank it

[slate shale]

armor is just worse in large fights cuz end of rep cycle

has been talked about before

[ebon turret]

Just give the Rokh a different bonus

Simple

[slate shale]

also arent ravens also used?

for the same reason

[ebon turret]

Yes

[wooden folio]

just give the rokh another resist bonus

[abstract prism]

Nah, ravens can't be used because they get firewalled allegedly

[strange basin]

Feedback allow players to use the rest of the Angel ships.

Reason they are already in the game.

Suggestion 4 more frigates, a destroyer and a cruiser, if I remember correctly, complete with unique models and stats so the actual work required to add them is minimal.

[steep needle]

one of the frigates and the cruiser are already flyable

afaik there is also no destroyer

[muted fulcrum]

Feedback: supers are in a terrible spot right now - hyper supers can't kill active caps and tanked ones do about the same DPS as a dread. Suggestion: buff the F3 on heavy fighters in line with the DD buffs and allow them to field 5 flights of heavy fighters

[wooden folio]

giving carriers 15 drones again would be horror on servers, na

[strange basin]

I don't remember the details, but I know that the rats use them, and they look cool, and I want to use them too!

[sonic pebble]

Why not add a CIWS module then...or tweak the Defender Missile to be more useful against a wider amount of targets.

[steep needle]

unfortunately according to the eve database it does not exist

unless you are reffering to the mekubal

[sonic pebble]

Irony with FW lowsec having the potential of bubbles with corruption via Pirate Insurgency. [Probably should start asking for Pirate Insurgencies to spread to more lowsec other than FW now]

[sonic pebble]

He is referring to the Lynx hull...also the Medusa has been seen used for destroyers in the past. When the Mekubal was added it replaced alot of the placeholders for Simplicity.

[steep needle]

and

thats a frigate

both of those are frigates

[sonic pebble]

And in the old days...the Lynx has been used even for Cruiser targets...called Ferrier.

[steep needle]

the ferrier was a hauler

not a destroyer

nor a cruiser

[sonic pebble]

I am not going to say anything about Angel Cartel "Trucker" NPCs using the ancient Caldari Badger/Tayra models.

[sonic pebble]

Yet using the Lynx model

[steep needle]

also incorrect

[dapper ruin]

how about you just dont say anything. About anything

[steep needle]

it uses the hijacker/outlaw or whatever model

not the lynx

[sonic pebble]

Thankfully CCP is updating thing has put things on track for a future update.

[steep needle]

but in a competition of being incorrect milint can never be right

[sonic pebble]

Feedback: Please Allow players to have all the current Angel Cartel NPC models that are currently not available to players. [Non Published]

Reasons: it would be cool and allow some interesting options for players and increased pirate faction interest. [Plus a Fury Frigate has been on my bucket list to fly...ever since I joined EVE online.]

Suggestions: All Angel Cartel hulls also get a TP bonus
Fury becomes the Tackler/Interceptor of the Angel Cartel. [As its lore is written]
Swordspine becomes Logi hull
Medusa is the EWAR hull + attack potential
Lynx could be as a ranged [artillery platform]
[Controversial] Revert the Daredevil back to its Devourer Roots and make it a Projectile Turret Frigate. (doesn't need to be...but I would rather have a unique V-named Frigate for Serpentist]

[wooden folio]

i would add freeing the echo hull for another use to that list

[sonic pebble]

Echo is the special corvette

we have it in game already

[wooden folio]

yup

there is just 0 reason to use it for anything at all

[sonic pebble]

but well true...adding it to the line.

[wooden folio]

except the hull

[sonic pebble]

wouldn't hurt

[slate shale]

I dont think this has anything to do with ship balance

or is this just me

[sonic pebble]

Feedback: Its time CCP to unlock the Triglavian Haulers...alot of people have been wanting those ships for a long time. Give them a little twist...at baseline allow them to use the Triglavian Spooling Remote Rep. Because we do see that in game.

Reasons: Consistent Clamouring for the Trig Hauler hulls since the Trig Invasion, and people want these cool ships. And they should have already been released for a long time.

Suggestions: All Trig Haulers come with baseline access to the Triglavian Spooling Remote Rep system. [There could be some debate on letting them have a Trig Mining Laser...which has been seen on the Resource Collection Nexus] But they also need to a unique slot in cargo size...between DSTs and Freighters. Hauling community has been clamoring for something in the 150,000m3 range.

[strange basin]

Speaking of haulers, how about a DST for the Angels and a blockade runner for SoE? I think thematically they would fit perfectly!

[ebon turret]

Oh no, milint discovered the proper post formatting, now CCP won't be able to filter the nonsense out by only looking at posts that are formatted properly

It's so joever

[sonic pebble]

You are late....that has been happening since yesterday.

[forest hare]

Feedback - the redeemer is the most used BLOPs ship and arguably has the best bonuses for damage and electronic warfare compared to other black ops ships

Reason - you can cyno drop at optimal ranges and the redeemer is the strongest close range brawling battleship other than the vindicator or leshak. It has an extremely high targeting resolution compared to other battleships as well which makes dropping on all ship sizes almost impossible to escape. The bonuses combined together with base stats make it significantly better than other black ops ships. The reduced turret cap use also takes away the drawback of being a cap-heavy neuting ship. It can use an extensive amount of modules before going to 0% capacitor.

Suggestion - reduce the scan resolution to 140. Reduce the turret cap reduction per level to 7.5% or 5%.

[sonic pebble]

Feedback: Slight upgrade to the Endurance Expedition Frigate. I think the Endurance should get a small but unique gas mining upgrade...to make it a bit more useable in other situations and be seen a bit more outside of Ice/Ore Mining sites. [Generally highsec/Events] Prospect stays premier gas huffer [which previous stated upgrades to either gas huffing amount or gas cycle times + 1 high slot.] But the Endurance can get a unique "gas huffing volume" upgrade. IE it too can huff gas...but can pull more off one gas scoop per cycle. But still slower than a Prospect.

Reasons: I would like to see the Endurance used a bit more often in all spaces. Yes it would be more geared to Ice Mining...but adding a small and unique gas collection capability would mean people would try to use the Endurance more outside of Winter Nexus Events and Ice Anoms in highsec...most larger groups tend to disbar the expedition frigates for simplification of barges. But it wouldn't compete with the Prospect which would be premier gas mining ship. (With a small ice mining laser buff for its hull...so you also see it in more situations other than just gas/ore mining)

Suggestions: Endurance can fit only one gas scoop on its hull. I would just increase its total m3 bonus per cycle. So per gas scoop cycle it does draw in more...but its only one gas scoop. While the Prospect has faster gas scoop cycle + higher m3 of gas collection than the Venture. [IE Prospect is faster than Endurance in filling up with gas. While Endurance is faster than Prospect on Ice Mining]
(Prospect will have a slower but still beneficial Ice Mining laser bonus...still not as fast as the Endurance. Even with 2 ice mining lasers. While the Endurance will have a beneficial gas scoop bonus...m3 wise...but not as fast as the Prospect in gas mining)

[sonic pebble]

I had considered the idea of a cyno jammer module for some ships. To allow players to offset a little of the hot dropping...limited range around the carrying ship. But could force some adjustments to the cat and mouse game of hotdropping.

Mostly to HICs

[zenith turret]

Feedback
CovOps ships are underwhelming. With the exception of the third high-slot (giving the option to use a Interdiction Nullifier), they all feel like a severe downgrade over the Astero.

Reason
Started playing 3~4 months ago, fell into Exploration, first with a Heron, then tried the Astero before learning about the Meta, then back to the Astero (which I still think is a great exploration ship).

At the same time, I was training into the CovOps ships as I assumed they would be an upgrade over the Astero given skill requirements and being a t2 ship. Imagine my disappointment when I got the skills for a Buzzard and tried fitting it to be at least as good as my Astero (or even the Meta) for exploration.

Align times are terrible compared to the Meta/Astero, this is made worse due to the lack of power grid and capacitor, forcing you to use rig slots or/and low slots to make the CovOps usable for exploration.

They have small cargo capacity, in special when compared to the Meta which has the mobile depot hold, forcing you to:

1. Shorten your exploration sessions or leave loot behind, in particular in Ghost sites were even a single can of a Superior Ghost Site might be enough to fully fill the 175m3 of a Helios.
2. Give up special sites completely as it would take too much cargo to carry refits and a mobile depot in order to complete these sites.

The only two advantages I see for these ships in exploration are:

1. Third high-slot enabling explorers to fit an interdiction nullifier.
2. They can be fit to be significantly faster when scanning sites when compared to the Astero and Meta, however, this is done at the cost of requiring a refit to actually run the sites.

Suggestions

1. Cargohold issues could be drastically improved with a mobile depot hold.
2. Increase the power grid, letting players use rigs/lows for align times.

[sonic pebble]

Back in 2020 all the T2s had Combat Bonuses. These were removed for very "hazy reasons"...and some ships like the Cheetah which was used as a popular exploration hunter...faded from usage.

I am still miffed by the decision to do that.

But yes some of the explorers are kind of in a weird spot.
And this is after all the loot m3 changes. And still some require using a cargo expander to at least be functional on roams.

[strange canyon]

Give the Nestor a 10x bonus to Analyzer range so i can warp in and hack everything without moving

[zenith turret]

Yeah. I feel like the faster scan times might be a good enough perk to make them super useful for wormholes scanning their chain, but for exploration it's not that useful if it gets in the way of actually doing the sites

[sonic pebble]

The cloak speed for two of the hulls can cause a stutter with warp align...which can get you caught in bubbles or killed.

[elder hollow]

i have been pushing for this internally fyi

to add distinctions for people who are colorblind

[sonic pebble]

I am not against the analyzer modules being increased in range....currently the Echelon is the longest ranged hacker...but nearly worthless because it can't scan itself into a site. [Its from a different time.]

[strange canyon]

on second thought even if range was increased you'd still need to move closer to loot

[warm path]

not long 1min?

[sonic pebble]

ah...you got him outside of bastion?

[warm path]

no they dont need a nerf

[warm path]

they were in bastion. ran out of ancil charges

[sonic pebble]

Well I am not against getting one or two of the analyzers to have lets say....8km-10km...still being able to move towards.

[sonic pebble]

oofff...ouch

[strange canyon]

yeah, but.. not really too much to gain there, explo ships are fast enough that you'd save maybe a second

[shadow flax]

FEEDBACK / REASON: Once upon a time Minmatar ships were noted for being fast and agile, and yet fragile. They would use this speed and agility to fight at range and in falloff. Since then a lot has changed and they have been left well behind while losing their unique flavor.

For example, a typical beam slicer delivers about 190 dps out at 20km, a rail Comet delivers about 160 dps at that same range, a LM Hookbill about 134. By comparison a 280 arty Firetail delivers about 70dps at that same range.

This is repeated basically across all of the small projectile turret platforms. Minmatar is fighting in deep falloff while everyone else is fighting in OPTIMAL at that same range. And there is nothing to compensate for the disparity. Minmatar ships are not faster, and they are not more agile. The result of these gradual changes is that Minmatar ships, once known for kiting and skirmishing, are now largely relegated to brawling.

SUGGESTION: Minmatar ships across the board need an increase in speed and agilty -- perhaps compansated for by a reduction in tank where necessary.

Small projectile turrets need a significant blanket increase in falloff for both arties and autocannons, probably about 50% on top of any bonuses they already have.

[strange canyon]

let me abyssal roll my analyzers and we're talkin

[sonic pebble]

It might help some of the slower hulls. Ironically the exploration boosters from yesteryear...would probably be an interesting item in LP stores.

But the Exploration Tab...can only do one can...so even if we tried a multi-hack...IE simultaneous hacking two + cans...it only can do one can at a time.

[sonic pebble]

Possible...is an option...I wouldn't be against that.

[strange basin]

I think the Nestor specifically could have it's can interaction range increased to maybe 5 km, they are trying to sell it as an explorer battleship, it has room for better tractor beams (or whatever) to loot.

[strange canyon]

let me brick my Zeugma

[sonic pebble]

Put it in
Feedback:
Reasons:
Suggestions:
Format.

[eternal hound]

Give Nestor the ability to tractor beam the data/relic cans XD

[strange canyon]

mmm

[sonic pebble]

The recent Rupture Change...has highlighted such a problem with Minmatar ships and Projectile weapons.

Rupture has longer targeting range than the Stabber...but its weapons can not reach...and even with higher tracking bonuses...actually applies worse! 😅

If you were to pit a Stabber vs a Rupture at 10km
The Stabber will apply. 93% Barrage and 83% Hail if the Rupture has MWD on. 76% Barrage and 68% Hail if the Rupture is AB on.

The Rupture will apply 88% Barrage and 69% Hail if the Stabber has MWD on. 65% Barrage and 50% Hail with Stabber is AB on.

Minmatar Ships have some pretty wonky issues with mathematics on damage and orbits.

[shadow flax]

The other significant issue with Minmatar is their terrible agility. For example, a Caracal with one polycarbon rig has a 3.99 sec align time. An Omen Navy comes in at 3.97. An Exec Navy shows 4.22, but it has a million low slots to get it down.

That Rupture with one poly rig? 5.19
You can fill every rig slot with polys and stick four nanos in the lows and it will still have a 4 sec align time. It's absurd.

The other Minmatar ships are largely the same. This doesn't matter in a huge null sec blob, but it damn sure does when you are actually trying to fight in these ships.

[dapper ruin]

well minmatar ships are rusty

all that rust causes extra drag

[shadow flax]

fair

[strange basin]

I have a general issue with Minmatar ships: their defense systems are all over the place. Yes, I know the lore is them being basically scavengers and use anything they can get, but I would prefer game balace to be prioritized. You have 4 main factions and 4 defense methods, and 3 of the main factions specialized to use a defense method, while the last one s just doing whatever randomly.
And if you really want to justify it with lore, shield recharge only needs energy, and generating energy is a very basic tech in universe. And Minmatar having the gest generators would also fit the lore, because Amarr has energy warfare, so compensating for it would make sense.

[shadow flax]

Interesting idea. It would be nice if all four races each had their own flavor. Minmatar used to be fast and fragile, hit and run, as befits their history.

[wooden folio]

just revert the TE nerf

bring back fozzie talos

[slate shale]

Which i think is fine? its interesting to have a faction which can be both shield and armor tanked no

so you have to look at the visual model to check for module effects which it is

[wooden folio]

minmatar are also the least reliant on cap itself

[strange basin]

I wouldn't have done it with one of the main factions. The newest one is literally kitbashing ships, they could have dual defense.

[wooden folio]

which makes sense, from an evolutionary standpoint

pointless to attempt to smoke when you dont have any

[ebon turret]

spend 10 years roleplaying as an NPC in a multiplayer game
have basically no experience of any of the player combat of the game
propose a broad and fundamental rework to the combat stats of most of the ships of one of the core factions

Kinda based actually

[wooden folio]

another option would be an across the board projection nerf

bring fights back to kiters operating at just above that 28km line

you now actually have room for hit and run attacks

[strange basin]

What can I say, I'm much better at pattern recognition than I am with PVP.

[slate shale]

Idk i feel like its fun to have a large portion of the ships not be always the same fit

[wooden folio]

they tried that with gnosis

[slate shale]

its already the case that a lot of the ships you can confidently guess what the fit is about 80% of the time

because ship fitting is pretty solved

except for some minor details

[wooden folio]

and then the loki zooms at you at 10km/s

with its missiles trailing it

[strange basin]

I have medium shields on my Algos

but it does a lot of damage

[strange basin]

Loki:

• launches missiles
• zooms ahead
• gets hit by it's own missiles

[restive bay]

It’s like Milint thinking target painters are aoe

And thinking the monitor to isn’t just useless

[dapper ruin]

Milint thinks the monitor is useful?

[old shard]

This isn't a bad idea tbh, I think they should still be coloured, but for the module icon there could be a letter overlayed.
Based on game though because not all ships are empire, maybe they could be R(adar), G(rav), M(ag), L(adar)?

But in principle, good idea.

[ebon turret]

Yeh, surprised that kind of accessibility change hasn't happened sooner tbh

But I trust in Drake to get some progress 🙌

[deft monolith]

Feedback: Tornados are far too strong for their ability to hit and run targets. With the right fit and implants they can warp sub 2-seconds, lock most things in around sec and still have enough alpha to delete any ship chasing them.

Reason: The ship is currently abused in the meta due to its ability to bounce around and effectively delete anything without being contested. If you catch a group of tornados the MJD allows them to pop out of a bubble and continue to bounce around. Meaning you essentially need to catch them twice in under 2 minutes.

Suggestion: There are no Missile Attack Battlecruisers. I think swapping the Tornado to a missile boat would allow for a higher skill ceiling while reducing its overwhelming combat effectiveness. Other options would be to nerf lock range/agility.

[wooden folio]

that just means that you get tachyon oracles instead

[worn dock]

please show me the <2s align tornado fit

[restive bay]

Me too please lol

[glossy nimbus]

you can use barghest. missiles from barghest have huge speed and its more difficult to screen them. also screen is good mechanics.

[steep needle]

Can't forget the political immunity

[random turtle]

<@&943181431402799155> Okami
BO Battleships adjacent but so strongly tied to its usage that I think it warrants to be mentioned here:

Mobile Cyno Inhibitors should interdict covert cynos as well.

This would not completely impede covert drops but would force some smarter positioning, adding more forks into engagements.

Currently, on any Mobile cyno inhib that is not already protected by a massive fleet, Black ops simply drop on 0, ignore everything but the inhib and as soon as it dies a normal cyno brings in the faxes.

Having the mobile inhib interdict covert cynos as well would force some tactical and positioning choices and allow smaller groups to have a reaction window and potential counter play to mass Redeemers.

In no way would this change completely wall off covert operations.

[gleaming anvil]

This is just a piece of feedback:

I wish the other haulers and freighters were able to have some more robust fitting options like the Upwell haulers do

Bring the Battle Badger back

And give some more interesting fitting options for Freighters

also

The Tengu is my favorite ship hull in the game, one of the best looking

I wish I could use it in abyssals

I know that for the longest time, Strategic Cruisers were extremely powerful relative to even most if not all Tech 2 Cruisers, but with their current state they could probably be buffed and still be a bit under par in direct combat to most HACs

That is not to say they are too underpowered generally, just that I think they may be in a better place to let them into the content HACs and Recons can otherwise enter

[sonic pebble]

They kind of do...just the majority of the Minmatar Ships don't have directly bonused shield/armor

[strange basin]

Okay, I know that the strategic cruisers were "recently" simplified, from 256 variants per ship to 81, but what if we would add a few pirate variants? As a test, we could add an SoCT hull: only has 4 subsystems in total (1 of each type), but is cross compatible with all 4 other ships.
Since it's SoCT, this could be introduced in a very limited way, like during an event where all players get 1 free ship and a few copies of the subsystems, but if it works then maybe slowly we could add pirate faction subsystems that were designed to cover specific holes in the abilities, while only being compatible with the two related emipre cruisers and the SoCT version.

[sonic pebble]

There is an AOE Target Painter...its just at the moment for the Super Carriers.

I think you should be happy to know...CCP hasn't yet considered anti-blob coding that has been standard in alot of other games [Especially RTS/RTT] that makes balls of targets easier to hit and or has debuffs.

[sonic pebble]

Technically...CCP could expand all the T2 and T3 equipment across all the lines. But I don't think the status quo crew would like that. Because that would complicate balance and control hot spots.

Meaning too many ships and too many tactical/strategic options to contain.

[clear slate]

Guys, if you are not filling this out in crayon they will not take you serious…

[strange basin]

I filled the form for the one that I thought is the most reasonable. Half of my ideas are just things that I would like because I think they are cool, while I'm fully aware that they would be mostly broken.

[sonic pebble]

I did check the Tornado...If you were going to Mid Nomad...you can get to 2.8sec align...and adjust it to get 1000+ scan. With overheat it can go 1200+ scan.
Ironically it seems that Quafe is where the main problem is. As well as Starsi Blast. You can also do alot with it.

Overheating just makes it a bit more of a headache.

6B for the pod though...kind of precludes it.
But if you are talking about a MWD trick skilled player flying the Tornado...you could possibly do it far cheaper...and could potentially have a point...but that would require alot of skill.

If you splurge a bit with mods you can go to more insanity...but it can do it "relatively cheaply" T2.

[glossy nimbus]

lold t2 tank mod. mael have good tank. mael needs utility highslot i think. remove 1 hardpoint. add dps bonus to compensate this. mid slot is op.

[dapper ruin]

ngl, never used a mjd or a mwd on a tornado.
you warp in, take a shot, warp out

if you mwd or mjd you are doing something wrong

[sonic pebble]

The ROF bonus on that ship is kind of nuts...maybe you should try a fitted Maelstrom with a Burst Aerator...versus a Collision!

[sonic pebble]

To a point you would think that...until you realize you can jump away...relock a target over 100km after your jump.

And just start banging away.

Although I would say it seems there some people who have found an edge case combination...and are using it very well in a way that is very hard to combat

Especially in Low/High

I was looking at it...from T2 fitting...it gets a bit more wonky if its factional.

Also if those ships are supported by BCs [fleet boosters] and Remote Sebos they become even more kind of annoying.

But by itself...it can be forced to a certain extent.

But I need context on was that situation...tornadoes by themselves...or did they have a fleet or supporting ships to boost this further.

[old cloak]

a proper fit Tar gets 77.5m under proper links/phenoms and a max tank fit Rag maxs out at 92.5m, but the point is valid

Despite that, when actual bloc titan FCs talk about titan balance, it's pretty clear the obvious trade off exists

in that you can dual resist tank armor titans and actually hold reps decently well in tidi

having sat in M2- and a cpl of the smaller titan fights in the last war, the dual resist tank on armor titans was far more valuable than the extra base EHP on a shield titan

there were guys on both sides tanking DD volleys because they were getting reps in time, and it was a lot easier in armor than Rags

[restive bay]

There are tradeoffs but not 20m ehp worth of tradeoffs. Not saying the ehp should be identical but the current difference is too high

[restive bay]

That was pre fax dim returns

Since the blocs haven’t used titans in a large fight since, when I was in Bigab we did use titans

[old cloak]

what

?????

https://zkillboard.com/system/30004773/reset/group/30/losses/

here, I'll find the OG RRep diminishing returns devblog for you (it wasn't just FAXes either, it's ALL remote repairs)

[restive bay]

Damn guess I’m misremembering

Was it the cost increases that were after then?

[silent barn]

Hmmm

[glossy nimbus]

dude. i mean add dps if ccp remove 1 hardpoint to give utility.

[old cloak]

those were also before, but the fights were what started really spiking prices as supply dried up back over 100b hulls

it was a dark period for a few yrs there, think we've all tried to blot out blackout - covid - surgical strike era

https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/spring-balance-update-incoming

trying to find the actual patch date

https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/patch-notes-for-april-2019-release

there

https://i.imgur.com/9XjyvyH.png

[old cloak]

also, I'm not really sure that the shield vs armor subcap comp balance atm is really an issue @restive bay

there's good reasons groups like lowsec/wh groups use armor vs shield and why bloc lvl is shield dominated right now

I think there's a lot of specific ships that need tweaked

but overall, I think the shield vs armor balance is quite good currently

shield is borderline viable for brawling, but the tradeoffs just make armor nearly always better

and armor is borderline viable for bloc sized fleets, but the trade offs make shield nearly always better

it'd be cool to have more options for everyone everywhere, but that also risks disrupting the meta everywhere and creating super overpowered doctrines/ships that then have to be nerf batted 5 times

focusing more on dealing with the underlying issues and bonuses that cause CFIs, FNIs, Vultures, and Rokhs to be so dominate right now is much better in terms of balance effects for everyone

[visual dune]

Speed Creep

• Nerf every subcap’s base speed slightly
• Consider increasing minimum warp distance to 200 km or further
  • Any further could break thousands of gate tacs

Range Creep

• Nerf every subcap’s base lock range
• Nerf every long-range gun’s maximum range to bring grids closer
  • Potentially buff tracking to compensate

Warp Disruptors & Scramblers

• Buff range on all warp disruptors & warp scramblers significantly (potentially up to 50%)
  • Larger scram ranges would be a massive buff to short-range & often under-used weapons such as autocannons and HAMs (10–20 km range)
  • Small engagements at medium ranges (30–50 km) would likely result in more deaths
  • Cruisers/BCs to get a bonus to scram/point range as a hull bonus, to keep frigate PvP centered around the 10 km scram range

RLML (Rapid Light Missile Launchers)

• RLML are far too oppressive against frigates, and they are competitive even against cruisers
  • Suggestion: Remove or nerf RLML range bonus on all ships (e.g., Cerb would only have range bonus for HAM & heavies)
  • Another suggestion: Make RLML launchers have a larger clip size but reduce raw DPS, to allow frigates the chance to actually approach before their MWD cycles off

Pirate Cruisers

• Phantasm
  • Increase bonus to AB speed
• Ashimmu
  • Needs a flat neut range bonus
  • Web range bonus ship that can't even neut to its effective range

T3 Cruisers

• All 4 ships need looking at again
  • Rebalance introduced interesting fitting choices to some T3s but failed to actually balance them
  • Potentially revert the Loki and Legion nerfs

T1 Battleships

• Abaddon
  • Needs more capacitor regen so it can actually use lasers
• Rokh
  • Consider giving +4 launcher slots to allow for more interesting fitting options

Navy Battleships

• Typhoon Fleet Issue
  • Drop the projectile turret bonus for something actually useful (e.g., sig reduction or paint)

[old cloak]

Not to mention, a further buff to armor BS hp in any way

just further increases the severe issues with Black Ops BS projection

[visual dune]

Blops should lose the plate / extender bonus imo
the t2 lines should never have gotten it

[old cloak]

they really should, they were oppresive before the surgical strike revert

now it's just insane

they're like the carriers of 8 years ago

[restive bay]

At null scale it is

[old cloak]

as an example, the standard fleet Redeemer fit under Apostle links pulls 400k base EHP

and over 1k DPS if pulse fit

[novel scaffold]

wanting to nerf lock/projection with no mention to nerfing range bonused webs is wild

[silent barn]

Jimmy it’s on my list

[old cloak]

Did Mick mention the RSS feed issue today...

He promised he would

[silent barn]

I have summarized most of the ideas here

[old cloak]

it's kinda messed up certain people get RSS pulls and not the official Eve discord server...

[silent barn]

Not official

I’ll post my official polished suggestions on Tuesday

[silent barn]

Yes

[old cloak]

🙏

[silent barn]

Mick dujek and I are all on the same page re WHs

[old cloak]

that we deserve an update that isn't just fixing PvE exploits for the first time in 5 years?

🙏

[silent barn]

I am trying to push for new content

Like gas mining rorquals

Or

Other capital usage in wormholes

Or new statics

[old cloak]

a man can dream

[silent barn]

Lmk what you all think about the word doc

As I’ll finish editing it

And giving it to ccp

[novel scaffold]

theres already a drone assist limit btw

[silent barn]

Yeah the limit should be zero

🙂

[novel scaffold]

well you might want to change the wording in ur doc then

[silent barn]

Kk

Good feedback

Also I’m asking for carriers to get larger SMA

And fuel bays become uniform in caps

@ebon turret

Please check document

[novel scaffold]

I also think "not fun to fight" isnt valid criticism.

[silent barn]

I’ll edit it to say risk averse

[jade forge]

Feedback - Some laser focused ships have merely equal capacitor with ships that have no such demand. Eg Crusader vs Raptor have identical regen

Reason - The limitations imposed make it that much harder to use the ship for its intended role. As lasers are already under-represented compared to most weapon platforms, and usually the worst option for unbonused hulls, it makes the weapon system as a whole somewhat undesirable to use.

The 0.6 GJ/s of a 150mm Railgun II on a Raptor (1.8GJ/s for 3 of them) is vastly less than the 1.0GJ/s for a Small Focused Beam Laser II, still less than the 0.7GJ/s for a Small Focused Pulse Laser II, and the Crusader has four turret slots not three. This is after relevant skill bonuses, causing Crusader to be down 3.8 GJ/s for its long range vs 1.8GJ/s on the Raptor, not counting further cap penalties for conflag. While it does mean the Crusader can carry more ammo (12m3 would give 3 different crystal sets, lasting 3 hours if T2 sets) than the Raptor (12m3 of ammo for 3 150mm's would last 1.4 hours of firing, not inc reloads), this doesn't seem like a fair tradeoff.

Entirely capless systems evade that cost even further, with the Claw and Stiletto ALSO having the same base regen despite having no other serious demand for cap that the Crusader doesn't have. Ammo consumption reduction is not enough of a trade off for fixed damage types and significant energy demands.

Suggestion A further reduction in capacitor consumption for lasers, or buff to base capacitors of these ships, to enable more usable firing without compromises other weapon systems don't have to make. Lasers lack a serious upside.

[old cloak]

This is such a weird thing, I don't think k anyone understands why it's the way it is, especially after the first rework

They should've all been standardized with that patch

[silent barn]

Yep

We brought it up at summit

Should be an easy fix I think tm

[old cloak]

Dreads are, faxes are I think?

It's just a nuisance for the theorycrafters/fit stockers who actually make sure content can happen

[silent barn]

Between capitals

Yeah

It’s silly

[old cloak]

I'm not sure how I feel about altering T3C links fits

they offer truly unique, albeit niche, solutions to certain situations

ie: wanting links for shield caps with a subcap armor fleet and no fax/carrier platform available and vice versa

and they're decently tanky enough

[silent barn]

I will respond in a moment

CCP is making waifu memes in the FW channel atm

We must cultivate the moment

[old cloak]

Not fun to fight; should be nerfed or reworked```

And I can't really see the reasoning behind this either

I think 100mn solutions should be available to be able to punch up vs larger fleets. They require a lot of FC skill and cost increase vs alternative comps/doctrines

[silent barn]

That was one that was mentiioned in here a few times

[old cloak]

CFIs are just broken in general

but that's not really a 100mn issue

that's a CFI issue

[silent barn]

Personally, u can counter CFIs 100mn and lokisi pretty easily

[old cloak]

Yeah, actually using 100mn comps successfully requires having near perfect intel ahead of time to ensure you're actually fighting a comp that won't just eat your fleet at 700m-1b+ per ship, knowing niche anchoring mechanics/piloting skills to actually properly utilize the mitigation while maintaining weapon ranges, and the inability to easily extract from grid compared to MWD doctrines

[glossy nimbus]

rlml need buffs. also rlml distance bonuses i think now removed from all ships. osprey navy havent it. caracals havent it. cerb havent it. ~~orthrus havent it. ~~ sry orthrus have bonuses to all Suggestion: play game.

[steep needle]

direct this inward instead as the person not playing the game is you

[glossy nimbus]

Justify it?

[quiet umbra]

I feel you've missed a point made on the variety ship choices.

#1394667173192138955 message

I'd like to emphasize the point being made in the Feedback and Reason sections, rather than my armchair-developer ideas.

[silent barn]

They’re summaries

It’s very difficult to summarize over two thousand comments and reasons and feedback

The nice thing is we can then control F

And find the feedback and reasons more in depth

[quiet umbra]

Okay fair enough

[slate shale]

Kinda miss the sac, ashimmu and vigilant

but besides that yea ship it king

[obtuse mist]

Feedback on Logistics Ships – Small Gang & PvE Viability

Feedback:
T2 (and T1) logistics ships feel too fragile and inflexible in small gang PvP (2–5 pilots), and are basically useless in PvE due to having no self-repair capability. Adding a limited form of self-repair would create more balanced and rewarding gameplay across fleet sizes.

Reason:
Currently, logi pilots either:

• Die instantly as primary targets in small gangs
• Or are only useful in large fleets with chain reps
  This creates a binary: either bring 0 logi or 2 logi.

Allowing limited local rep would:

• Make 1-logi setups viable in 2–3 man gangs
• Add flexibility in mid-size fleets (5–10 pilots)
• Leave big fleets untouched (they still need full RR setups)
• Open PvE roles for support pilots

**Suggestion **(mechanics):
logi ships get +25–30% to self-rep effectiveness

Impact by Fleet Size:
Fleet Size Current Meta With Local Rep
2–3 pilots Logi = dead weight Now viable and rewarding
5–8 pilots Often no logi Safer to bring 1 logi
10+ pilots Chain RR meta No change, balanced
PvE Logi can’t farm Opens up support PvE role

✅ TL;DR Benefits:

• More survivability = more new logi pilots
• Doesn’t affect large fleet balance
• Opens up new PvP & PvE options
• Adds flexibility and removes "0 or 2 logi" binary

Thanks for listening!

[slate shale]

t2 logi cruisers are NOT weak

what

even solo

as someone who has done solo logi

like good positioning is important, and you cant anchor

but its 100% not impossible

it just requires different fit

like xlasb osprey

that is crazy

should try that

or xlasb scimitar

or dual rep zarmazd

or the t1 zarm idk the name

just fit some reps

and position safely

its fine if players need to pull away when they are getting shot, and pull to your backline and get reps that way

[silent barn]

what would you change

[slate shale]

sac im not sure. I dont brawl much, but in the 6 years i play eve ive never seen a sac used effectively

and i think i can count on one hand the times ive seen it used

[novel scaffold]

https://zkillboard.com/character/2112131632/ this isnt your main is it?

[slate shale]

I think the vigilant could use a speed buff, the mass penalty and higher base speed just make the nexeq so much better at both kiting, and catching targets

[silent barn]

What area of space do you live in

[slate shale]

Ive lived in null, and c2 ns/c5 static

[slate shale]

maybe give the ashimmu a bigger damage bonus? it really wants to brawl but the damage to back it up just isnt there, and theres better long range webbers out there. Maybe another high too.

Tbh im not very good at thinking of ways how to make ships better. I know these feel really shit to fly compared to other ships, because they just arent good at anything

and other ships kinda outclass it

[novel scaffold]

do you even fly small gang cus it doesnt show on ur zkill?

[slate shale]

I do think cynabal needs a cap buff btw, cuz it has nutritiously bad cap, which was fine when it came out, cuz it was strong back then, but now its just a worse vagabond with fast warp, for higher cost

[digital basalt]

This chat should've been broken into different sub threads of hull sizes, it's a hot mess in here.

[visual dune]

It should be able to neut as far as it can web

[whole vale]

Angel ships just got a slight nerf to warp speed in the sense that AFs and HACs just got a buff to warp speed IMO

[silent barn]

I’ve written down your suggestions

There’s a lot of yap

I have made a document of summary of points

I’ll present it to ccp

[desert adder]

not every points deserve to be presented to ccp

[silent barn]

I’ll be sending to document next to csm boys