T7 Elemental affinity bonus for Fire/Necro (Incineration - Extra attack) not working

[ancient ember]

After giving 3 levels to T7 Elemental affinity bonus for Fire/Necro i won 0 damage on continental fights

[clear frigate]

Hello, traveler. We are happy to serve you. Please wait while your question is being verified.

[clear frigate]

Dear Traveler,

In order to better solve your problem, please provide the following information so that we can further investigate the cause:

1. Your Character ID
2. Battle recording
3. Challenge time
4. Screenshot of the Elemental Affinity interface

Once we have collected the information you provided, we will immediately report it to the relevant team for confirmation. Thank you.

[ancient ember]

1-1410906039244978176
2-DM
3-10 min

this happnes with wild and summons teams too

0 damage increase in any after 3 levels of T7

i would have imagine to get at least 5 or 10m increase

😅

[ancient ember]

I DM you the recording

[spring hemlock]

Same problem in Vortex 4

[fierce raven]

It has 30% prob upon ultimate skill to activate an increase of attack based on ...% of defense. So, so rng in already rng wild team. >.<

[ancient ember]

should be still an increment on damage on 10 min fight

even more with tiamat on the team

[fierce raven]

To be honest, mine is 8/10 and haven't seen noticeable difference, but i cannot tell exactly bcoz the numbers in vortex are so random. Burn team maybe is a better team to check the diff I guess. And also this affinity bonus is weird.

[ancient ember]

i went from 0 to 3 and tested all 3 continental teams, won 0 damage

that cant be right

or i want my mineral back

😄

[clear frigate]

Copy that! But I could use some time to respond to you, please allow me if I may.

[clear frigate]

Dear Traveler,
Please provide the exact time of the previous battle you’re using for comparison, so we can further verify the issue. Thank you!

[ancient ember]

I dont know the exact time

But any of the prev fights

I have recorded one in my Channel with similar gear

[clear frigate]

OK. I got you. Please allow me some time for an adequate reply.

[clear frigate]

Dear Traveler,

The Affinity Defense-to-Attack conversion is highly affected by your base Defense and Attack stats. If your Attack is high but your base Defense is relatively low, the resulting bonus will be reduced accordingly.

I hope my reply can help you. If you have any other questions or suggestions afterwards, please feel free to contact us again. Have a great time.

[ancient ember]

No...

Its a 10 min fight

Even if the defense is low

500

3 levels is half of that on attack

And 300 attack is a lot on a 10 min fight

I should have seen at least 5-10 million more damage

I mean It should have been a LOT more

But i didnt even Saw that

On 3 different teams

Not even 1 million

Its broken....

If you not gonna fix it then people shouldnt invest in that and i regret spending so much mineral already in mine

[ancient ember]

i just check

he has 2k defense BEFORE tiamat adds him much more defense with her passive

thats over 1k attack (at least)

in a 10 min figth, a hero that is doing 900m damage

and im not getting even 5m from that?

its crazy even to think that is working as intended

[clear frigate]

I received your message. But need some time to look into the questions, please allow me some time.

[clear frigate]

You may try equipping gear with Defense in its Secondary Attributes. Increasing your Defense will make the talent’s effect more noticeable.

[ancient ember]

more noticeable than 0?

he is doing 900m damage

900!

even a 1% would be noticeable

and tiamat adds him much more defense with her passive

this is T7 affinity bonus

damage increase should be notieable just by unlocking it

not mant have unlocked T7 but many will in the coming days and you will get lots of complains

its just sad that CC bosses end tomorrow and i invested so much on this

thanks for your time @clear frigate 🫶

[clear frigate]

Dear Traveler,

Thank you for your detailed feedback! We understand that you feel that the T7 Affinity bonus damage increase isn’t noticeable, even though your character already deals high damage.We will forward your suggestions to the relevant team for consideration.

Please note that the Affinity bonus damage increase is calculated based on the defense value shown on the status panel, not the dynamic defense during battle.

Have a great day!

[crimson radish]

Would be nice to see a better explanation ... i still dont understand these bonus. When do i get the 150% (10/10) atk? What difference in base def and atk stats is needed? How much %. At this Moment, the affinity talent makes no sense for me ?!

So only a tank benefits from this talent?

[clear frigate]

This effect is based on the hero’s base defense outside of combat and is not calculated from the in-battle real-time defense. Therefore, secondary attributes on equipment that provide defense will help enhance this effect. For the exact percentage increase, please refer to the detailed description in the talent.

[crimson radish]

But how is it calculated? On what base? If i f.e. got 3000 pre-fight defense and 30% chance to get 150% atk (from the t7), what is the "defense percentage" here?.
From "what" exactly are the 150% atk gain? 150% from 3000 defense?

[clear frigate]

The bonus from this effect is calculated based on your hero’s base defense stats outside of battle.

[ancient ember]

yes its 150% from 3k defense

if 3k is defense when entering the battle

[crimson radish]

So it should be a big dmg boost, but in fact its non existant 🙈

[ancient ember]

https://tenor.com/view/ups-oops-gif-25712345

[crimson radish]

Thx for your answers, as always very fast ❤️

[clear frigate]

My pleasure💗

[crimson radish]

Sorry for all these questions 🙈 😅 but i think i figured out the only logical thing.
In the t7 description its talking about "defense percentage". So i calculated on the basis of my durem.
100% def% = base def = 1285def
Additional def = 733def
= 2018def
This results in ~157 def%
Now adding t7 10/10
157 x 150% = 235,5 atk

So he "only" recieves 235,5 atk. From t7 10/10

Please correct me if im wrong. 🙂
But this is the only way i can make the Bonus make sence 😅 🙈

[ancient ember]

where does the 157 came from?

[crimson radish]

Base def + gear def. Considering base def is counted as the 100% def

Base def = 100% + gear def = were at 157%

[ancient ember]

you cant multiple 2 percents then

😅

157% x 150% makes no sense

👀

[crimson radish]

The atk gain is based on the "def percentage"

In skill description

And this is the only way to make it make sence xD

[ancient ember]

nah

thats crazy haha

[crimson radish]

It counts the whole % as stand alone number

Yea crazy, but the only way the 0-0.1% dmg increase would make sense xD

[ancient ember]

nah that cant be

[ancient ember]

there is another way it would make sense

🐛

[crimson radish]

Its broken? 🤣

I know we never will recieve a Formular but still have hope xD

[compact trout]

not even 100% uptime, it only has 30% chance to proc for a 0.1% boost thats really bad for T7

[prime snow]

So this t7 boosting just a very very little damage or its not working ? Bcs i have 6/10 and didnt see any difference in damage, as well i have durem on i5

[ancient ember]

seems like it gives very very little damage

[tardy thistle]

with 2 nodes tier 7 in Ice blast, my Vortex damage can increase up to 100m while 4 node in fire only give a little damage. Nice screw up ppl who invest in fire node for CC,

[young cloak]

Last week, my final talent was +0, this week it's +10, and I still can't even catch up to last week's damage on continental bosses. Apparently, it's just a scam and doesn't work.

[native lance]

Hi @clear frigate, I would like to ask you about some more explanation about this, if that's fine.

1. So the description says: "Before Incineration heroes cast an ultimate skill". So I assume this bonus should be added before the cast of the ultimate skill. But it doesn't say anywhere how long is this attack bonus for. Is it just bonus for the ultimate skill? Or does the hero keep it and it stacks up until the end of fight? Or is there some duration like 10s?

2. This is just about confirmation what kind of Defense stat is counted. @ancient ember said that he uses Tiamat with her passive to increase defense, but based on what you said "it is calculated outside the combat", it seems to me, that any bonus to the defense (even if it means base stats) during the fight is not counted. So even if Tiamat adds 1K defense base stats during the battle, it is not counted towards the calculation of the attack increase. Is that correct?

3. If you don't mind, could you confirm this calculation please? So if I take @ancient ember's Durem stats, he has 2018 Defense. Let's assume that I have leveled T7 5 times, so I should be getting 75% of Defense if it activates. Does it mean that each time this is successful, Durem's attack should increase by 0.75* 2018 = 1513? * And that's not assuming inspiration lvl, which if he has lvl 5 inspiration level, then he should be getting 2018 * (75%+25%) = 2018 attack. This increase of attack should be noticable by few tens of millions in damage.

Also I assume that this bonus will not work during this Continental Challenge, since it ends tomorrow, but that kind of sucks a lot, because some people focus more on ice element or thunderbolt etc and they will be doing more dmg here and even in Temporal Vortex, so it pretty much affects season ranking too. But it should be fixed at least for the otherworld exploration.

[vivid cape]

@clear frigate just to confirm what liveranov is saying. For continental challenges, neither my summon team, my burn team nor my wild team noticed any change in performance whatsoever after investing three points in the extra attack. If you really believe the skill works as intended, one have to question what kind of intention is behind a skill that does nothing. In any case, the text should be remade so it would be possible to understand how the affinity buff is supposed to work. The current text is just confusing.

[crimson radish]

Following points i found out:

• the t7 works, its just not such a big impact because its not designed for ults that have follow up attacks - like durem
• it only takes effect on direct Hits/ dmg from the ult
• the 30% chance makes it rng as hell
• Most comps use only 1 real dps so the dmg increase is even lower
• if you use "wave breaker" Island buff on auto, the t7 messes its targeting up. At some point when the island buff gets applied directly after an other high atk hero uses his ult and proccs the t7 (not the main dps), the Island buff gets to this hero and falls off of the main dps

[native lance]

How did you test it? Because based on what you are saying, I could see that the change would be visible only on like Lelwanis or some Wild hero (not Fiora).

I am kind of also confused about wavebreaker. Because some heroes have continous damage like Bernade. So the question is how long does this attack buff stick with the hero. If they coded it that it only sticks during animation of the ultimate and the initial damage, then it still is quite small time window where you have to hit wavebreaker.

[fierce raven]

Your math ain't mathing. It s just based on defense (not percentage) so if you have, let's say 1000 def in total before entering battle, if this triggers the hero will gain 1000×150%= 1500 flat att more. So, it's big. Tanks will benefit for sure from that, if it works properly. And every hero has a basic defense (without gear) at least 1000. So this would make randomly an impact.

[crimson radish]

Was doin (rinse and repeat) cc with burn. There i recognized after Putting 1 more pt in t7 that my wavebreaker buff reacted strange. After some repeats it was at different times on different heros (karf or dark lady). Then i adjustet the wavebreaker ~5s after durem (last in dps rota). Then it stayed 100% on durem.
Then i tryed a matching rota (wb together with f.e. dark lady). And it switched from durem to dark lady but inconsistant (-> 30% chance if triggering t7 only)

And sometimes the Hits from durems ult were higher (def down and so all the same). Was imconsistant too. But the Overall dmg the follow up Hits from durem dont went more up or down than normal.

Its hard to say if its all random or that im 100% sure but it all seems so like i mentioned.

[crimson radish]

Then the skill description is wrong? XD we dont know for sure how it works nor will we ever get the answers to our questions 🙂

[native lance]

Honestly could be just fluctuations due to burn element. I would say it would make more sense with Lelwanis, who should probably have always highest attack and ultimate is simple.

[crimson radish]

It could, but happened never before i put 1 more pt in t7

6/10 now

And i ran soooo many times in the last days but this behaviour started only after 6/10

[ember fog]

How the actual heck does this mechanic work.. devs please just post the formula so we can dissect it and figure this silly mechanic out cos you don’t have a clue either for this one

Assumptions:

• At physicore level 10 there is a 30% chance to get UPTO A MAXIMUM OF 1.5x (150%) times your defence added onto attack (so less due to a penalty determined by the gap between pre-fight attack and pre-fight defence).

• The bigger the gap between a qualifying units pre-fight attack and pre-fight defence, the lower the bonus which gets applied by this specific buff (upto a max of the stated % for the unlocked physicore level).

• For example at physicore level 10/10, the unit can receive upto a maximum bonus of 1.5x (150%) times your defense added onto attack.

• A larger gap between pre-fight atk and pre-fight def means you are penalised and get less of that 1.5x times defense (150%) added onto attack bonus provided by this buff.

• The larger problem being lower attack and more defence geared on a unit pretty much results in less damage dealt even after that bonus combined with less bonuses from other sources lost by plugging up the atk/def ratio.

= there are ways to ‘manipulate it’ but its way overly complex even for math folk and therefore a failed mechanic

[fierce raven]

Omg that was confusing as hell. It has nothing to do with attack itself. It has 30% prob to increase attack by def x 150%.

Just the wording "defense percentage" is confusing. Just defense. And right we can see the percentage gaining based on defense

Mine is maxed 10/10 and no difference in CC (fyi) 🙃

[tardy thistle]

Last week my summon team can deals 500m without full tier 6, now with 4 tier 7, max score is 477M. Haha

[pastel mortar]

Well, defense percentage COULD mean that only 1% or 10% or 22.5% or 12.765% of the defense stats are taken in to the calculation or even worse 0.1 and not the full defense stat itself.

But we dont know, and we wont see the math behind it, thats not a thing a development team would share.

So for now, as a player, i wont use it as it doesnt bring me any benefits. And i heared same for Ice/rad and lit/pois skill too, they dont raise the damage as much as exoected, but havent seen any real tests yet.

But some few ccs have been talking about it

[fringe ridge]

If i am not mistaken the wording says before the ultimate is cast.

I wonder if its broken where, as soon as you cast your first ult. You will no longer get the benefit. Hence people seeing no changes

Probs a bad coding thing

[pastel mortar]

So you mean like it only happens ONCE at all in a fight?

[fringe ridge]

Thats my bet

The game will check to see if an ult has been cast. It has, therefore the bonus is not applied

I reckon is the coding logic

Iceblast logic is probably the same. You get to 15 skills cast, it triggers for 10 secs and then no more benefits

Because it doesn't repeat

In my mind, the only T7 worth investing in is lightning. Because its static

If you have 5 lightning/poison units. You get defense ignore

[tardy thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/owen-wilson-wow-marley-and-me-smooth-hd-hq-gif-977282450591946462

[fringe ridge]

I bet there is no CD on T7 fire/necro either. You have a 30% to get the bonus or not.... thats it haha 😂

[gentle igloo]

Very little point in T7 then…….mad!

[fringe ridge]

Obvs its just a theory of mine

Can't actually confirm it. But with so many people mentioning a very miniscule increase in damage if at all...

[native lance]

@clear frigate could we have some update on this please?

[ember fog]

Just not for flora which has ended my vortex this week against ice plebs

[ember fog]

they forgot to loop

Or returned Null

[clear frigate]

Dear Travelers,

Thank you for your continued love and support for the game! Regarding the Talent “Incineration - Extra Attack”, here’s the clarification:

The extra attack bonus from this Talent only applies to Ultimate Skills, and it is checked in real time before each Ultimate Skill damage instance occurs.
In terms of calculation, the bonus is based on the hero’s out-of-battle Defense stat — that is, the total of the white base Defense plus the yellow equipment Defense you see on the battle screen.

[fierce raven]

Defense, as you see, IS just the FLAT defense before battle as i said. Not defense percentage but defense x percentage y%. As my English is not my first language, this game should seriously take into consideration the English translation. Lots of bad writing wording.

[pastel mortar]

Yes, i KNOW and i read it and i knew before the post as we discussed for hours internally about it, but some things are not for me to make public.

Btw we ran tests, explained on different examples etc and there is still testing going on, to check if really everything works as it is supposed to be (regardless of what we think how it should be)

[fierce raven]

It's one thing to make something public (just skipping expressing view) and other to express an opposite view (knowing the real one). 😅

[pastel mortar]

I didnt know as i posted my opinion 😉

There was 24h im between

[fierce raven]

You literally wrote: "i knew before the post as we discussed for hours internally about it". You knew before the post, but you posted after the post posted. 🫠

[pastel mortar]

I knew before floras post that you cited in you statement above (4.30 am this morning)

My thoughts have been posted yesterday 6am...

[fierce raven]

Omg haha. My post was yesterday morning too before yours obviously. Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Hope you find in the testing what's going on and keep us inform

[native lance]

Thank you for the answer. I appreciate your help.

This is just my opinion, but I think this is designed quite poorly (unless this was designed for Arena), because based on adding this attack only to the ultimate damage, Burn heroes don’t really benefit from it as the main source of damage is from burn. Wild heroes could benefit from it, but it really depends how it counts for Flora, so probably the only benefits I see are for Lelwanis.

And also it is just 30% chance to get that buff, which makes it really random. For turbidity heroes, they have defense penetration on all the time. For limpidity, you need to cast 15 skills, and in one rotation you have 10 skills (5 battle and 5 ultimate on average), but ice blast cast multiple battle skills, so I would say this bonus is triggered either one or one and half of the skill rotation. This really just makes me wonder how the t7 for fire and Necrosis is supposed to help especially the new class - burn heroes as it looks to me that Wild and Summon would benefit from it more.

[ember fog]

Its a trap mechanic to hold wild back

[ancient ember]

Even for arena is crazy, you have 30% chance to do something that helps you win. Seems pretty low for arena...

[native lance]

I agree, it’s really low especially when Arena fights are over in 1-2 rotations. But I don’t see how this benefits PVE at all. It’s like you are trying to push damage in Continental Challenge and you have to do insane number of runs to be lucky to have this buff 1/3 of times on main dmg dealer. Then they should give us like 1000 simulations instead of 30, when it is so random. But even then I just don’t see how this was designed to help Burn heroes.

[compact trout]

pretty sure its bug or they coded .15 instead of 1.5. they might fix it like how they lowkey fix CC talwer resistance check. now my talwer team barely gets any debuff unlike before whole team gets debuff/CCed 100%.

[fierce raven]

It is pretty clear to me that t7 bonuses are for balancing the combo schools. Imagine fire and necro team had poison/lighting bonus, it would be insanely unfair. Necro/fire does amazing dmg in all content already, so they gave them the most random affinity bonus. Poison/lighting has fallen behind in total schools (exept for thunderbolt). So they needed a boost in dmg overall. It makes sense to me and don't get me wrong i have invested and maxxed my necro/fire affinity and see no big difference in CC.

[native lance]

Well that really depends how the class is designed. For example I am quite surprised by thunderbolt as I thought it would be more of an arena composition, but it has quite high damage in continental shadow - similar or a bit greater to the Summon element (I went through top 20 rankings to see how it does). And I would say that the Burn’s damage being out of control is an accident especially since you use rare hero instead of mythic and you need correct placement. If you don’t have them, you have like half dmg around the level of ice blast.

On the other side, you have ice blast which is pretty much Temporal Vortex class same as was (is) Wild. And ice blast actually performed worst out of these 3 in continental challenge which was a bit surprising to me. It’s just Poison and Dauntless who look quite weak, but I think that’s also because the heroes in CC didn’t suit them that much.

But it will be interesting to see next season, because then we replace Summon, Rally, Poison, so then I can imagine Corrosion being TV class, Shadow being Arena class, Aura not sure. And you will probably have buffs for these 3 in CC and I wonder how they choose the other 3 as it would be wild vs burn, thunderbolt vs dauntless, ice blast vs frost. Honestly if they could make 2 sets of heroes for each element and let us choose that would be the best haha, but you want people to buy new heroes, so I get that it won’t happen.

[ember fog]

That or/plus where in the ultimate it does and doesn’t count is crucifying