Balance Rook for game health.

[still herald]

Starting from a basis in which I assume that those who have get him are not going to support me, I would like to propose a balance on Rook's, with all the rest, absurd infinite scaling.

You have created a hero that far surpasses all other options, and I say hero because he is the problem, not Corrosion.

Corrosion is a fine mechanic, the problem is Rook's scaling, especially with the artifact. It doesn't make sense that a hero with an area damage skill set is breaking all records in single target content like Vortex or the Continental Bosses.

And the worst thing, what worries me the most, is not Rook itself, but what you are going to have to introduce in future releases to create new viable options, the powercreep is going to get out of hand, leaving the heroes released during the first seasons practically unusable. This is a snowball that is going to get bigger and bigger if it is not stopped in time.

You released a mechanic (Iceblast) that was pretty well balanced with other options (Wild, Dauntless, and Poison) that performed well on Vortex and monotarget content, while others less useful in monotarget had their moment in other types of content focused on area damage (Burn, Thunderbolt, Rally...). People could continue competing even without getting Beldelle (Gerthrin did a great job) but that case is not repeated this season because if you want to compete, you need Rook, he is the one who makes the difference.

That is why, for the health of the game and the motivation of your entire playerbase, my recommendation is to try to find a balance for Rook. Let him continue to be a high-performance hero but without indiscriminately crushing all the other options that the game offers. It would be a shame if a game with great characters like this was worthless because of a single unbalanced hero.

I hope you take it into account. Thank you so much.

I'd like to take this opportunity to add a link to another suggestion to improve guild management tools:

https://discord.com/channels/928541801260908546/1226197314238943384

[zealous turret]

Awesome Statement! I totally agree with this

[fiery badger]

I have Rook and for the future of the game I think they should limit the damage, I understand that corrosion should improve Iceblast since it is a mechanic from a new season and it has to be something better

[unkempt cape]

Failing to balance rook properly, it would at LEAST be nice to have more units for existing damage types that can somewhat tickle his tail damage-wise. That way people can try to add onto what they have and feel a sense of progression, rather than constantly falling behind.

[still herald]

Those units already exist in the game. As I said before, there are really well-balanced mechanics that should be able to compete head-to-head with each other, including Corrosion. The problem is Rook's infinite scaling.

If instead of balancing him we add more and more powerful units to unseat him from the throne, 90% of the heroes, at the very least, will be useless.

That would only create a powercreep problem that would get bigger and bigger as time went by.

[unkempt cape]

I just want more units in existing damage types.

It's really stupid that we're just getting 1-2 units from each type per season if we're not whaling, at most. Creates this infinite loop of "Get the exclusive? Nope? Try again next season."

[still herald]

It seems good to me, I think it's fair, especially for the new mechanics.

But I think it has nothing to do with the issue of Rook indiscriminately trampling on the game's balance.

[still herald]

Well, Gerthrin did a really good job in Season 2.

This is not the case with Season 3, where if you don't have Rook, you're sold.

[unkempt cape]

I feel like the addition of new characters that work well with existing mechanics alongside a nerf for him, would allow for better balance.

3 legendaries for each new type really isn't a lot...

[still herald]

Aura works good, Shadow too. They are mechanics that are good, although you are right that the hero pool of these mechanics is short, just like the ones in Season 2. But they work, they work well.

The problem, and I'm sorry to repeat myself so much, is that Rook (not Corrosion) works extremely well in any type of content or situation.

In the continental Bosses he can unseat any team even in the other affinities... Which doesn't make any sense...

[unkempt cape]

Yup. Increasing the versatility of other damage types, and lowering Rook's, feels like something that would work in tandem.

For example, allowing frost to have some semblance of single target efficiency.

and possibly rebalancing poison to not be so reliant on huge stacks.

Balance in general is kind of an issue right now, and Rook is just the most egregious example.

It'll only get worse if things aren't looked at as a whole.

[still herald]

I don't want it to look like I'm putting fud, but sometimes it seems that they launch without having gone through a testing and balancing phase

[unkempt cape]

Only allowing content creators into the testing server would not be my choice. Very few of them are interested in testing anything that's not going to get a ton of views. Which is kinda a given since it's a livelihood.

[still herald]

Anyway, nothing we can debate among ourselves is going to help. I just hope that this suggestion reaches the Devs and they really consider making some changes for the health of the game.

[zealous turret]

It does reach them, multiple mods reported this post and similiar comments too

What they will do , we dont know though

[still herald]

Thanks for your work, mate

[nocturne topaz]

i like the idea of damage types within elements and dont mind the possibility of new ones with a gimmick that is built specifically for that season's content but is useful in its own right going forward. s1 we had frost which is aoe. it wasnt great on vortex but it was good in arena and in content where aoe was useful (fey, pillar, goblins, etc.)... introduce IB in season 2, now ice has a viable single target type. i feel like with season 3, we now have hybrid types in aura, shadow and corrosion.... they do good single target and aoe damage, and that's great! but i don't expect a hybrid to also nuke the competition in pure aoe or pure single target performance.... THAT is the problem.

i look at damage types based on potential performance in vortex... ice blast, wild, dauntless should be top as pure single target types... aura, shadow and corrosion should be in the middle as hybrid types... poison, summon, frost, burn, thunderbolt, rally should be at the bottom as AOE... with of course exceptions in exclusive damage being able to elevate poison, rally, summon and frost higher (except hvitar and lelwanis dont do that, unfortunately... lothair and thelendor certainly can with all the right tools in place to enable them... but they still don't compete directly with single target specialists in ice blast, wild and dauntless exclusives... the may bump their damage type up a rung on the ladder to compete with aura, shadow and corrosion but not at the tip top)...

but rook destroys that logic... and that's a design issue. people who whaled heavily for him would ragequit if you took it away now... unfortunately.

i WOULD like to see some new hybrid types from fire, ice and lightning and some single target types from radiance, necro and poison. every season we should be able to say "what do i want to go all in on this season" and do that... pick an exclusive or two and go. there should not be a "best in slot" over all.

[rotund glen]

DISCLAIMER I DID NOT READ THE POST OR ANYONE UNDER SUE ME.

Yeah it's bit off the rails , it would be bit more ok if rook was only king of vortex but he will dominate continental bosses (this one luckily not because of the clunky mechanics) and End game boss so he is top everywhere kinda insane.

[crimson wing]

I got rook and agree that his a bit broken. Weak on early season but scale up quickly on the 2nd month.

Of course I would not like that he is nerfed now. If he would be nerfed it should have done before season start becouse it was clear alredy on the test server that he was broken. Than he got nerfed just before s3 start but just a bit. But that was the time to do it, not now.

However even if I am happy using him now it brings me concern with the future. If every season there will be a new broken hero or mechanics that makes everything else outdated it will hurt the game on the long run.

There has to be a balance. And I agree that it is time to bring new heros, not new mechanics. Bring other rally, other wild hero than shake a bit how we use those mechanics instead of bringing a totally new mechanics than unbalance the game.

Edit: typos

[rotund glen]

If they add 3 new schools of damage instead of adding heroes to existing types , it's a problem

[unkempt cape]

yeah 3 new schools every season just means no one but whales will stick around

especially if they continue the trend of epics being 10% of the exclusive's output

[rotund glen]

and not even epics , if you pull sacradeia and whisk you can't even make a team which is 66 % of the legendaries in corrosion x)

Anyway i know mobile games/gachas are terrible at balancing but this game has to do a bit of a better job because it's seasonal and it's a straight up competition against other players with daily/seasonal rankings, if you get power creep in other games that doesn't really have same type ladder systems i wouldn't care if you constantly power creep.

[crimson wing]

In my server there are huge s1 whales with 5 inspiration dounthles, some big s2 whales with lots of ice blast inspiration.

S3 there are some whales, but not that crazy. There is only 3 rook with exclusive artifact and only one with 1 inspiration.

The real big whales did the spending on s1 and s2, not on s3. That might be a sign alredy

[nocturne topaz]

my server has at least 1 guy with a 4 insp rook on a fully inspired corrosion team with max insp theo/feenja.

so they are out there.

[still herald]

Well, we have a guildmate with Sacredeia, Whisk and Rook 5/5, so there are them.

[torn sky]

I am wondering why not remove the different criteria of vortex every week, those criteria are meaningless due to the dominant of ROOK

[mint fiber]

Dragonheir:plague

[valid bluff]

It's a hero that utilities badly designed mechanism of the game which is Corrosion. I am the one of few players who played Rook from day 1 and I know his weaknesses and strengths.

His weakness is early to mid to early end game. His damage scales with damage of his allies. 50% of dmg done by ally is converted into Corrosion which means the more dmg Dargo and Whisk and others do, the more damage Rook will do and currently there is no cap on the amount of Corrosion applied.

Rook early game is bad, Sigrid and others are doing well better, and that is because of other Corrosion heroes not doing enough. If they nerf Rook any more he will become useless until day 30 of the server.

What we need is a way to cap Corrosion similar to how we can cap Poison at 40 stacks. This however would destroy Corrosion as a whole, cause Sabrina's damage is based on total Corrosion. So it will be even more towards Corrosion required Rook as there would be not a single alternative - Right now while Rook being Corrosion best damage dealer by far there are other viable options for dungeons and other content.

We could reduce amount of Corrosion that other heroes apply, even by 10% and we would see significant drop in Rooks damage and I think that might be the first approach. Remember people have already spent a lot of $$ just to whale on the rook and they will not be happy about BIG nerf so devs would need to do it step by step.

[unkempt cape]

Cap his passive imo

every other passive damage increase is capped, so it makes no sense that he's the one exception

[low pulsar]

If nerfing rook would bring worry to whale players making them unhappy, then, as what I have said, buff the rest heroes.😂 it’s not an ideal solution, but at least an alternative.

For instance, removing the 40 cap of poison stacks; removing the 5 cap of ice crystal; removing the 10 cap of burn stacks; making it possible for aura to be stacked even in blaze state; etc.

I don’t care whichever way they would do, just bring the game back to the stage where players can have multiple choices to rank high in Vortex but not just Rook, and back to the stage where continental event ranking is more rely on the overall depth of a player’s roster and gameplay strategy rather than just having rook or not.

Rook is great. But you make it too good to destroy the balance of your game. Not in the long run, but even in the short run players without rook will leave because they will find that the game has changed to, not free-to-play, not pay-to-play, but rook-to-play.

[valid bluff]

I was always an advocate of buffing others rather than nerfing heroes. All the solutions you have given are valid! If we remove the poison stack cap Lothair will become the top 1 😄

[torn sky]

Balance is something that mystery to the devs as they never played the game for a month

[low pulsar]

Yes, it just a brainstorm for alternatives but never be the best solution. If they want to balance it, whichever way they choose, will be hard in every aspect.😅

I just hope the game back to the place where ranking is more rely on the overall roster of a player and his gameplay strategy rather than mainly just having rook or not.

People may argue that rook without good supports will still lose to other teams. So I specifically refer to “ranking”.

In the past, we play multiple teams to rank each other in Vortex. Now just rook.
In the past, we can choose different element combinations in week 1 to 4 to maximize the continental event scores. Now you must have rook to rank high. And I have seen that rook can even get a decent score in other element bosses 😂 I can further provide the info if you guys want.

I respect every points of view from different players and understand that the view may also be different depending if you have rook or not. So I am not against any person and I totally agree with you as well.

I believe we all love this game and contribute together to make it even better.

[rotund glen]

Sadly it's a mistake that already has happened any further action they will take or not take is gonna be bad for someone, leaving it as it is will make them make new characters that constantly power creep the next abomination they make , so far until rook they did a good job , made other elements playable ( some were worse and needed buffs, some mechanics like summoners/thunderbolt did not work) but it was somewhat balanced at least.

If they keep adding new damage schools with only 6/7 playable characters in them it's kinda doomed for me anyway , the teambuilding aspect is not there for me from that small pool of characters.

If you release a character and have to buff every other single mechanic in the game to make it on same level , i think the problem is the character/mechanic that you released not all the other mechanics ^^

[nocturne topaz]

i'm for this since he's my main vortex unit 🫣
also, just nerf rook between seasons and it wont matter as much imo; let the whales enjoy him for this season, next season they'll be doing something else anyway

[torn sky]

it is gonna to be an outliner every season
s3 poison ： rook
s4 fire : fox
a5 ice : whale
s6 ....
s7 ....
s8 ....
you see the balance 😂

[nocturne topaz]

are we just going by chinese new year animals lol

if so i'm kind of here for it...

[torn sky]

good suggestion
s3 : rat season
s4 : cat season
s5 : dog season
....

[nocturne topaz]

a rakshasa for cat would be cool... necro or fire would make sense. dog..... radiance. celestial doggo! there is a hound headed celestial in dnd monster manual that would work. as long as it fits the theme and isnt broken it would be cool

[fiery badger]

Dragon season will destroy the balance, chinese horoscope is unbalanced

[rotund glen]

Tell that to Utior

[unkempt cape]

We do not in fact, have enough tabaxi in game

[nocturne topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/quack-gif-22072896

[unkempt cape]

Tabaxi monk so they can make his battleskill that slapping faces thing cats do.

[sterile spruce]

bump, nerf rook.... stupid unbalanced design. everyone in top ladder in vortex uses rook and nothing else can compare... same for continental bosses

[fiery badger]

S2 was the same with IB

[still herald]

Poison beat Iceblast on many occasions and, in fact, Iceblast never surpassed Dauntless's record in s1. It only dominated due to the pairing with Radiance, which has the best supports.

It is not even close to comparable to Rook's case in S3.

They mean that everything works as it should? I think it's great, totally legal.

But don't expect to have much player engagement...

[thin fog]

Everything is fine and balanced…and yes that is over one billion damage, your eyes do not deceive you

[still herald]

Worked as intended

I really just hope Devs open their eyes and realize that they are ruining their own game.

I am a truly lover of this game, guild leader, I have been in the game since its release, even before when you could make attempts to the horn from another app, I have met a lot of mates and I would be very sad to see a game so good and with so much potential end up falling due to the lack of diligence of those who ran it.

They mean everything is fine? Perfect, totally legal.

But don't expect much engagement or community retention, because they are scaring everyone with his lack of self-criticism.

First it happened with Rose, telling us that everything was working as it should. It passed again with Zhorak. Several Bugs passed (Hvitar's in Irzillas Boss was clamorous) and they also stated at the beginning that everything was fine.

There is a serious lack of self-criticism and assuming mistakes. It's okay, we all make mistakes... But please don't take us for fools. It doesn't work as it should, you just aren't able to admit it.

[thin fog]

I’ve been playing since S1 as well. Used to think this game would top all other gachas iwith a similar genre, this season may have broken me. I’m not sure if the merger caused them to push a super legendary for increased cash flow or if this is the direction they decided to go and next year’s new toon should be about 3 billion+ damage. Meanwhile still no re-balancing on older legendaries that are useless.

[still herald]

@tame isle Please, send that screen to whoever tells you that you have to sell us the idea that everything works as expected...

In the end you are an intermediary, so thank you for your work and for putting up with our complaints.

[sturdy anvil]

i cant even read that with a straight face <_>

[amber sapphire]

I am getting the same copy/paste replies. Its just scripts, no one cares mate. Its more important to get you into half-year celebrations 😄

[sturdy anvil]

anni celebration worse then genshin impact >:D

[amber sapphire]

Its possible they think that for a real, full-year anniversary there wont be anyone around, so its a last chance to milk people for cash. Don't know how Genshin was, but normally its something to reward people and do a different/fun activity.

[honest bramble]

No one cares
There is no point even having a suggestion channel. At least the mods haven’t been coming back to you with sarcastic stupid comments.

[zealous turret]

Well, most of the mods agree, that rook is very powerful and we adressed this issue already before he got released (and he got nerfed prior to release already)

The developers are aware that part of the community thinks this way about Rook. We dont know IF and possibly when there will be changes or if even at all, but they are iterating it at least.

[honest bramble]

He wasn’t nerfed. He is still the best damage dealer in the game. He just doesn’t do billions of damage any more.

[valid bluff]

That is called nerf. The change they did destroyed his early to mid game as any damage dealer would be better.

Rook started to shine only at lvl 100, mostly due to other Corrosion damage dealers doing Millions of damage with Legendary and Mythic gear, hence starting the infinite scaling on prolonged fights.

The issue is the flat number and no cap.

Flat number increase makes him bad choice till lvl 100. No cap makes him the best end game hero.

[honest bramble]

You cannot call a champion nerfed when they are still the best dps in the game.

[valid bluff]

The definition of nerf is to make something weaker than it was before

[honest bramble]

They fixed a bug

[valid bluff]

Nope, there was no bug

They increased the flat number of Corrosion required to trigger the extra hit

[honest bramble]

Anyhow it’s an irrelevant discussion. The core of the issue is he is still WAY stronger than anyone else

[valid bluff]

That was their change, its not a bug, it's a nerf

[valid bluff]

Yes

In prolonged fights, he cant take dungeons below 15 sec like some other heroes can.

[honest bramble]

Big deal
You don’t get daily ranking rewards for that

Since he is the best single target dps and also does aoe damage, he will almost certainly be best in the final boss also

And then we have completely useless champions like Lincos who is apparently working as intended lol. Worse than a rare.

[honest bramble]

P.s. I would still say it’s not a nerf

Nerf
verbI
past tense: nerfed
cause to be weak or ineffective.

Rook is still best in class. He is not week or ineffective.

Also in gaming terms if something is needed it’s not typically still the best option.

[valid bluff]

There are other definitions below that Google search

[thin fog]

I think getting caught up in the definition of the word nerf is a distraction at best. The point is in the few competitive aspects of the game he is an incredible advantage over anyone else in any element for one of them and in others that are element specific there isn’t another option that even comes close. Your own spreadsheets show that conclusively. That’s what makes him bad for the game at this point until they (developers) do something to about it. If the developers decide non capped damage by infinite scaling is the way they were going to go now then maybe it should have been with all the new legendaries this season and not just one special one or just not done at all. That is what creates animosity toward Rook

[crimson wing]

This game is much more than vortex. You need 6 teams on 2nd month, you need 15 teams on 3rd month. In the end of the day how relevant is one rook that can be used in only one of those fights? Your still need dozen of other good teams to compete.

Yes, he is overpowered. Is that a big deal? Less than the noise that are being made. People are just upset about vortex

[valid bluff]

I am not disagreeing with the statement, its just the person above does not understand he already been nerfed, not enough, but he had and that is the discussion I was part of

[valid bluff]

Totally agree 👍

[rotund glen]

i'm sorry but he is top damage dealer in vortex / continental but also will be top on end boss so think that's the issue . My personal biggest problem is also that 1 copy of rook is better than any other exclusive x2 so it's just has made the meta plain boring , you have no reason to want lothairx2 he is nothing

[unkempt cape]

It's at the point where if you were offered 4-5 random legendaries or one rook for the same price, you'd choose rook every time.

because of all the legendaries he's the one that will increase your account's progression the most.

[rotund glen]

I used to want a beldelle dupe but now i don't care anymore why bother when rook without his artifact is stronger (:

it just takes away from the game , he just made all the other exclusives look like a joke , so you loose chase factor after them

flora doesn't feel cool anymore so i don't want her , she was good only in single target where rook is top tier in Single,AoE and Cleave can't think of a more boring thing than that

[crimson wing]

Still, he is only one hero. I am not on the top of my server becouse I have shity rally heros and did poor dmg on radiant boss. People without rook overall did better than me if they had good s1 and 2s Legos.

I am not arguing that he is out of balance. Devs should pay more attention on balance. But I think you guys are making it a problem bigger than it actually is.

[rotund glen]

Now all the future heroes will have to match or be stronger than rook which will result into even more boring gameplay so you will just see in time how bad this character was and how many people will lose interest even more in the game - which is the main issue

[unkempt cape]

^

His existence is a detriment to the game precisely because if they ever want to make something stronger than him, with everything else at the same difficulty, the game becomes INCREDIBLY boring.

You can see this power creep in most of season 3's cast, actually, not just rook.

[rotund glen]

Before rook it was cool to get old exclusive heroes and they were balanced because Flora,Beldelle did incredible single target but sucked on AoE, where Aschetius did INSANE AoE damage but did not perform as well on ST , but now we have a character that alone with 2 epics does insane damage

[unkempt cape]

Feenja and Theodemer do more than alternatives, and it's not even close.

Synarell blows all other healers out of the water.

[rotund glen]

I don't mind those characters even tho i do not own Synarell he doesn't make people get rank 1 on all ranking ladders which i have the most fun with in game , withotu not owning Synarell i can still compete and try to teambuild and have fun , but rook is just braindead and takes away from that. He is also too easy to build

[unkempt cape]

Fathomdown's damage as a tank is RIDICULOUS

Yeah I'm just saying it speaks to their design philosophy

[rotund glen]

It's your opinion , that's fine. i respect it but just so we are clear i am a player that chases top rankings but will always lose to whales which is fine that's how pay to win games work , but Rook just ruined any type of chase for me , in s2 it was much more interesting , in s3 i don't even check top 20 team comps because why should i waste my time 🙂

i have no problem losing to inspired heroes etc because that's the name of the game , but when i see a rook with 2 epics and epic artifact do over 300m dmg - i am sorry that's just out of hand

[unkempt cape]

In a game like this, constant powercreep means you either have to make things harder or it's incredibly boring.

[rotund glen]

@crimson wing but that's 2 different opinions not gonna fight you over it.

[unkempt cape]

Which just makes people who can't open their wallet constantly fall further and further behind.

And when the free to plays leave... so do the whales.

[rotund glen]

Also to add show the the best comp on continental boss that isn't a rook team , that's gonna be even worse than vortex , and just you wait for end game boss 🙂

[unkempt cape]

Can't wait to see rook do 700M in one go on endgame boss. Whale teams already managed almost 400M on mekka

[crimson wing]

I do think they messed up on the balance. I find it ridiculous to bring 30 new heros in a season, would be better to bring just a few well balanced instead af 3 new dmg types. Would be better to make some storyline, would be better to fix the bugs. They have messed up many things on s3, rook balance was only one of them. I just don't think it is worth all the noise and drama here.

[unkempt cape]

I do think it's to be expected. Imagine you spent hundreds to i5 lothair for example

[rotund glen]

Well for ME it's the biggest reason to quit so far because it makes the entire game pointless .

[unkempt cape]

now all your effort and money is basically wasted.

Anyone's going to get angry at what looks like an investment blowing up

And if it were i5 rook that outperforms i5 lothair, that's a whole 'nother issue.

But i0 rook with an epic artifact outperforms i5 lothair with his exclusive artifact.

[rotund glen]

i think everyone thinks that , biggest problem is if they make 3 new dmg schools in s4 .... and no other content

[unkempt cape]

6 exclusives. Outperformed by 1.

[thin fog]

You are simplifying the point. The point is he is the highest damage dealer in the game by a long shot. Your saying balance doesn’t matter with your statement. Prior to Rook. Every element has a chance to come out in the top 10-15 in vortex depending on the weekly buff, gear and the inspiration of their team. Now an uninspired Rook team can outscore a fully inspired team of any other element. That is complete imbalance. The “noise” as you called it is justified if you care about one hero destroying the balance of the game with how it operates as of now

[crimson wing]

As I said. People are upset with vortex shining numbers. But vortex is only vortex. You still need very good teams of other factions to be able to compete on the season, rook is only one point outside of the curve, he alone won't carry you one the season.

Better work on your dounthles, ice blast, rally and wild teams becouse a 400m dmg rook will get you lower than avarage players who don't have very good s1 and s2 Legos.

Remember that the points you get are not linear to the dmg you do.

3 teams doing 50m are much better than 1 team doing 150m.

Focus on the season instead of vortex and you will see that this noise is much less relevant than people are making it look like.

[rotund glen]

i told you already it's not vortex , it's everywhere, he is top everywhere, and it sets up for future problems

[low pulsar]

Regarding to your point that players are over upset about Rook because Rook can only play once in mid-game or later game challenge, I respect it but cannot agree.

Player who want to rank high but without Rook can barely hit over 50m in the weak-against-posion continental challenge, making them impossible to compete with those who have Rook.
Have you seen any players to score well with Lothair, or even full epic corrosion heroes? I've never seen any. Rook is overpower to an extend that it makes the ranking meanless if you simply don't have him.

Yes, Rook can only play once. But this particular once score already brings way too much advantage over all the other teams.
In end game, yes, Rook can only play once, but without Rook, can you get anyother team that can perform the same score as Rook does and compete with Rook's team? I definitely doubt.

Ok then, maybe some other players who have Rook come out and say: then get yourself a Rook and stop moaning.
Sorry, I have plenty of money to spend but I don't find any meaning to spend on a game which is screwed by its mechanics balancing and I don't buy the concept of powercreep over powercreep as a "compromise plan".

[thin fog]

And again that is a simplistic view of the overall game and future of the game. Everyone that plays games such as Dragonheir understands power creep, but Rook breaks power creep by his team being able to do 2-3 times the damage of the next elements main hero’s team no matter the inspirations. That’s not power creep, that’s power domination.

That’s not healthy for the game

[sterile spruce]

I totally agree. in s2 we had a kraken always #1 in vortex with his inspired 5 exlusive, mostly s1 like flora, thelandor etc and full i5 team. now in s3 he's barely top 20 losing against rook with random artifact

Besides if someone can do several hundreds of million against continental boss, while that's arguably one of the more difficult bosses for most player, he can easily get enough points lead against those doing a bit more on other bosses. might as well use him against the boss weak to radiant dmg and still outperform anyone else

[low pulsar]

Exactly!
We can only play Rook once, but his score (or dmg) alone already twice (or even triple) as the total of 2 other teams! And someone say this is ok? No, we deeply know that this is a joke.

[unkempt cape]

Frankly it's even boring for people that have rook.

Who wants to have to use the exact same team forever

[shy sky]

Rook👎 delete

[amber sapphire]

Yea Rook basically screwed the whole already bad season. Vortex for sure is screwed as the only end game, but it goes beyond that - Rook basically made the rest of the competitive part like Continental bosses obsolete if you dont have him. Will be the same with final boss I bet.

[still herald]

There are people who don't understand that the problem with Rook is not just short-term.

The problem right now is Vortex, yes. Also the continental Bosses. In fact, I leave you screenshots so you can see what he is capable of.

But we haven't gotten to the most important PvE content yet, the Final Boss. It may be too early to say that its performance is going to be incredibly superior, but everything indicates that it will be like that.

Not counting the powercreep that they are going to have to introduce for Season 4 to unseat him from the throne. That will leave most of the S1 and S2 heroes practically unusable.

That is why, before the next problems comes with him, he must be stopped in time.

[civic plinth]

I suggest to give the endgame boss a passive like: "Deals 1000 dmg whenever hit"
(I have rook, op, boring, pls balance)

[valid bluff]

Dauntless mains enter the chat 😄

[honest bramble]

Yes I already stated that, so totally agree, he will almost certainly be best in final boss. Since he does aoe and is best single target dps.

And either he will continue to be the key to rankings in future seasons, or other champs will be bought out to compete, rendering the existing champs even more power crept.

And yes Gorax I understand he is no longer completely broken from pre release. But he is completely op still, so there is no point even mentioning it really.

[honest bramble]

You can say it wasn’t a “bug” but when one champ pre release is doing 10* the damage of anyone else in Vortex for example, I as a software qa engineer with over 25 years experience consider that a design flaw or bug.

Which quite obviously needed to be fixed pre release. But none of that changes the fact that in the actual released version he is op.

I also note you have been silent on how busted Aura is with their damage caps, despite Corrosion also being aoe and being the best single damage damage element.

[honest bramble]

Something not mentioned enough is that Vortex is a single target. Corrosion heroes do aoe damage. So in theory you would expect single target heroes to be best, I.e Iceblast, Wild, Dauntless.
And they were best against a single target boss before.
They are getting crushed now by an aoe hero.
Imagine if the final boss has an aoe aspect to it like it did in season 2 (and even season 1 there were 3 spots to hit from memory).
Rook is going to obliterate all other champions.

[honest bramble]

I also note Gorax has done 420 million vs the chief challenge boss.

Yeah….tell me is that comparable to any other element? Especially given poison is the hardest boss.

I am also interested to know how long the vortex fight lasted where you did the #1 rank damage. As Rook just gets more powerful the longer the fight goes.
End boss is usually an 8 min fight…chief challenges are 5 min and he is op.

[honest bramble]

This is also a garbage argument. Only shines at level 100 😂.
Vortex isn’t even open day 1 and you get to level 100 in like two weeks.
99% of the rankings are done with level 100 heroes.

They destroyed his early to mid game 😂 cry me a river

The early to mid game, pre level 100, is irrelevant

[valid bluff]

See what you did here? You don't care about how the hero performs at any stage in the game, telling me you are very upset and not clearly thinking about the whole situation. Devs balance around more than just the end game and more than just few game modes. If they want to reduce his end game damage or scaling they would need to significantly boost his early presence.

The first two weeks are very relevant to the game to have the best start possible and pushing highest dungeon levels to be as efficient as possible with stamina. Why do you think whales buy out the whole monthly card just to get early advantage? The Dungeon Race also gives tremendous advantage when it comes to affinity solvent, and the reason why there was discussion to nerf Zeffi/Oggok.

Seems like you are targeting your comments toward me to create some unnecessary drama, I stated it during my first tests on Test Server that Rook is overtuned and I refused to play him there until changes were made, I stated it after the nerf that he is still going to be top for Vortex and I played him from day 1 so I know his ins and outs.

This thread is exactly what I expected it to be and this will be my last input here as this leads to nowhere, at the end it's up to developers to decide what they will do with it as they received a lot of feedback on it.

[honest bramble]

Mate you can reset your champs the first week.
Of course the first two weeks are very important.
But Rook not being the best champ in the first two weeks is irrelevant to this discussion.

[honest bramble]

And don’t try and tell me the devs in this game balance heroes. Just look at Lincos for example

Apparently working as intended like Rook

[honest bramble]

I am only coming back at you based on the comments you made and telling me I didn’t understand what a nerf was.

[crimson wing]

But you didn't understand what a nerf was

[honest bramble]

Actually I did as I explained. Perhaps read again

[crimson wing]

You are not happy that the nerf was not enough, but there was a nerf before the release

[honest bramble]

Your happy as you have Rook. We are not happy as it’s not healthy for the game especially longer term, not that we don’t have him.

The topic of this discussion was for health of the game, especially long term

[crimson wing]

I heard your opinion and I respect it, I just don't agree that this is as big of deal as you are painting it.

Look for the whole season, not only for vortex and one boss. If you don't have good ralky/ice blast/wild teams rook won't save you.

Remember that on the continental challance 3 teams that do 50m are better than one team that do 150m.

[honest bramble]

Yes I agree with that and respect that opinion.
For instance I rank like 90-110 on vortex but was top 40 week 1 of continental as I know how to build teams across the board.

And I am not trying to compete with whales, I just like the challenge of maximising my damage and ranking.

So for this season alone, rook won’t save you no.

The issue also is though as people have said what happens when they bring out champs who can compete with rook next season. The season 1 champs will be garbage.

[gleaming ridge]

I am new here and yes i am a whale player. I learned a lot with @valid bluff videos (of course i am doing a lot more damage in chief challenge bosses because i had more powerful heroes than him in the lunar event) and i thank you for the content you created, but i will tell you the reality of what is happening for us that are in the middle of season 2 in new servers.

My alliance was top 1 from day 1 in S1 and now in S2 it completely dominates, but there is a point... Do you know how many people continue playing the game? The whale ones and even free ones from season 1 in my alliance? 13 people, yes 13 people.

Do you know why they are leaving? Answer: Rook. They know it will be a game in the long run of what will be the next power hero that will surpass the damage of the best character in the season 4 and go on, they complained in my discord server about the way the game was going to address the new heroes and just left.

They never complained about Ice Blast in Season 2, because yes we have a balance in the rankings depending on the week, but when they saw a hero that can do good in single target and AOE at the same time outdamaging heavily inspired heroes in the videos, they see no point in continue playing it or spending. The game will continue this cycle from Season 3 to Season 4 and Season 5 unfortunately.

I dont know the reality of the older servers, but it is really unfortunate to see one by one stopping to play so fast like that, i never saw that in a game before.

Or the developers begin to really balance the heroes or you will not have a huge influx of new players in the next seasons. Sorry for the long text, but as a whale player here i wanted to show what is happening in new servers seeing the news about Rook. Thanks.

[honest bramble]

That is an interesting perspective from players who haven’t even reached season 3

[crimson wing]

Or they change vortex in a way that rook won't be so OP there... Who knows, season 2 I had Nastjenka as one of my best heros and she was useless on continental challenge becouse of Talwer...

This season I have a shity rally team to deal with which hold me down on the rank of continental chalange.

The game balance don't have to be done solely on hero power, there are other mechanics and I wish devs will do a better job than what they did on s3. But who knows...

[honest bramble]

Unfortunately the only balancing they do once the game is released is to nerf a hero like Theowin, a ftp epic who did decent damage. And was in no way in need of a nerf.

Although to be fair they did fix Rose in season 1, again you could argue that was a bug fix though and not a balance change.

[honest bramble]

It just doesn’t make sense that corrosion is aoe and also the best single target damage with no caps.

Whilst aura is aoe with bad single target damage despite having enemy max hp skills, as the damage is hard capped far too low.

[crimson wing]

Yes Aura is bad, I got all of them including the exclusive and didn't even bother to level them up.

[honest bramble]

I use the exclusive as I have two exclusives, her and Ash. She is pretty good, the rest however are garbage and they don’t even enable her well. She is good alone.

[honest bramble]

Yes in many cases before this season melee heroes were massively penalised in those battles.

[still herald]

I think that either you haven't understood the amount of problems that Rook is causing in the game, or you don't care to understand it because of the boost it gives to your account.

We have a ranged hero (the least penalized in the Bosses mechanics) who does completely unlimited area damage that is breaking all records in single target damage.

It has tripled Vortex's record, which, until now, it had a mechanic that WAS designed for single target damage.

Practically quadruples any other alternative in the continental Bosses. Not only this, he is also capable of improving the results of almost any team in an affinity that is not its own.

I repeat, it is too early to know what the Final Boss is going to be like, but unless he has immunity to corrosion we can assume that Rook is going to burst the markers, whether it is a single target or aoe dmg mechanic.

Not to mention that it has completely broken the feeling of competitiveness in all those who, for whatever reason, have not get him. This problem, added to many others that the game has right now, is causing a massive abandonment of players.

I am guild leader of guild #1 on our server and the speed at which people are abandoning the game is unfortunate. I see it first hand.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, the short-term problems. From here other problems come in, such as the big snowball that will be created with the powercreep.

Don't you want to see it? That's up to you. But you can't cover the sun with a finger.

[low pulsar]

Some defend Rook by saying he’s weak at early game. But what impact the most to your ranking (and your rewards) in this game is mid-season and late-season, not early game. Try to avoid using your Rook in Continental challenge and end game, then tell us what your ranking will be.

Some defend Rook by saying he’s already been nerfed once. And they know that it didn’t work out, otherwise this thread won’t be existed.

Some questioned the only voice here is moaning. But they don’t see there are already many suggestions provided not only in this thread, but also in cc channel, english channel and many others.

Some defend Rook by saying he can only play once in any occasions. At the same time, they cannot find any other team that can perform the same score or even near it. Lothair, Flora, Dauntless, IB are more or less at the same tier as they are competitive to each others. But can any of them compete against Rook? We know the answer clearly.

The problem has nothing to do with how many times we can use Rook nor how bad Rook performs in early game.

If someone keep saying so is kind of providing confusing information to the public imo.

The problems are always that -

• in the short run, the mechanic of Rook alone (not corrosion) breaks the overall balance of the game;
• in the long run, introducing another powercreep over powercreep as a compromised balancing will ruin the game very quickly.

[honest bramble]

Well said. Hence why I thought Gorax, a cc, saying that he was nerfed early to mid game was quite outrageous

[glacial knot]

What Gorax said is true.
They nerfed Rook.
His early game is weak.

He isn't much of a help when progressing towards level 100 and legendary gear.

With the beginning of the chief challenges he is by far the most powerful dps hero in all PvE related game modes.
Leaving everyone else behind.

It's frustrating for most player, especially the ones who didn't get him and eant to compete in the leader.
The result, player look for alternative games with (hopefully) better balance.

[honest bramble]

The early game is always a balance. Especially for ftp. I mean you cannot choose to level your vortex team (unless they do good aoe) at the expense of not being able to effectively farm goblin and the domains.
But that also doesn’t last for more than 1/6th of the season and provides the least ranking points.

It’s obviously critical to setup your season. But not being able to build rook until week 3 and then have him dominate the rest of the season is largely irrelevant. So whilst it’s true I think it’s a totally invalid counter point.

[glacial knot]

I think we all agree that Rook is busted.
It's more about what kind of influence does he have to the player base in the near future.

[sturdy anvil]

and to add to this ^ the disparity in performance is "working as intended" really give me bad vibes for upcoming seasons and its powercreep.

[amber sapphire]

Exactly my point. Ive spent so much tine providing with direct and detailed feedback and the answer has been - working as expected. They are not changing anything it seems. At least not now and on time. People that don’t have him are out of the competitive picture. People that have him are bored because he is the answer to many questions - vortex weekly buffs are meaningless, continental is one less team to even think about or min-max you got 22m+ covered for sure, same most likely for final boss. All working as intended and its not slightly stronger its like fully busted. Fixed, nurfed or whatever it was its not enough. Buff the rest! I wanna build and play viable Aura, Poison and thunder… highly unlikely to happen vs rook 2.0 in season 4 - at least based on current experience. So why stay?

[glacial knot]

*People that have him compete with each other

[honest bramble]

Yep garbage early game.
Week 2 and 100 mil damage.

And here was Rook sucking bad on day 6.

And this during the time you can rebuild your champs anyway for goblin and dungeons 😂

And calling for a buff early game 😂

How out of touch can you be

[still herald]

And let's be honest, even if his performance is bad early, which is not, who cares?

What % of clepsydra's income is obtained in the early game? A ridiculous amount...

Not to mention that all dps heroes have questionable performance in the early game. Until you get certain stats (especially CR% and CD%) all dps perform below their capabilities.

[iron jungle]

Well season 1 rocks xd 🤗🤗🤗 I don't see any incentive to move on...

[glacial knot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnPkv7VpHm8

[fallow pasture]

Players thank you for keeping this thread healthy and respectful many mods have reported this numerous times, Though i would kindly ask that you guys stay clear of using swear words as i have started noticing here and there they used.
Thank you

[sterile spruce]

i see so many people quit in s3 because of rook...

[fallow pasture]

Well players quit for many reasons, unfortunately its just one of many

[shrewd locust]

I will say this - I've enjoyed this game so far; I have stuck with it consistently more than any other gacha that I've played. I have few complaints and a lot of hope for the longevity. I'd like to echo what others say - powercreep will be the single greatest threat to your game. Whale baiting is a slippery slope and Rook's design is the equivalent of doing a summersault and diving head first down that powercreep sinkhole. Personally if I do not see concerted effort to reverse, mitigate, and avoid powercreep going in S4 then I will take my time and money elsewhere.

[low pulsar]

Afraid that this thread is becoming TLTR, so I was planning to type a short paragraph, summarising all the feedback from players and quoted with reference to their message above, and then @ the dev team to let them read easily.

But at the end I didn’t.
I was asking myself would it change anything? Would it bring any meaning to the game?

As a CC I have responsibilities to help the player community, to tell the good side of the game and to tell the truth as well.
But I start feeling powerlessness, not because of the lack of content of the season but the lack of response and their game run strategy of most likely using more powercreep over powercreep to break the game balance further.

Will they ever want to officially get back to players on the Rook’s one? Will they ever want to share their thoughts or plans for the game balancing?
If all the answers above were no, then why would I bother to go further on this game and being the one-side love in this “relationship”.

At the end, I hope that every CC can “put yourself in the shoes of every player” when you want to defend your Rook or still want to say everything is worked as intended.
There are good things about Rook, no doubts. But there are more negative things caused by Rook, which in turns implicit the fact of how they would run this game.

I ranked 2nd in S1, ranked 1st in S2.
And as many other players said, thanks for bringing us Rook, but S4? No thanks.

[iron jungle]

I think two seasons for year would give plenty of time for them to balance the game and bring more features to the game.
I'm on season 1 and still enjoying the game i really like the strategic pointo of this game and i think this game have alot of potential

[thin fog]

Interestingly Vortex buff is clearly for Flora fire teams, but only one Flora team in top 15 on my server and that Flora team’s hero’s are fully inspired. Every other team in the top 15 are all Rook teams. But, as they say, nothing to see here Rook is (working as intended)

[icy valley]

They never said rook was balanced. They said he is working as intended. And the intended purpose is to sell dice.

[thin fog]

That I can agree with

[crimson wing]

The best way to balance rook would be that he consumes part of the corrosion. Not all, but some portion that would bring his dmg back to normality

[rotund glen]

best way to balance rook would be build a time machine go back in time , adjust him more before release

[torn sky]

best way to reset all to season one, devs will have enough time to redo all work as intended

[nova prairie]

Imagine every season (= every 3 month) another „Rook“ will appear and powercreep the version before 🙈 Rage-Quit Philosophy

[icy valley]

That’s exactly their intent. How else would they sell dice if they didn’t make all the old heros obsolete.

[random merlin]

DaM I CAN'T BELIEVE i READ THE WHOLE THING!

[hardy tendon]

This will destroy the game for sure. Not at first, because the spending will be quite high, but in two-three seasons there will only be whales left

[shy sky]

🐭 👎

[silent mica]

Agreed, nerf rat

[shy sky]

A legal way to break the game and ratings. In normal games, such errors or bugs are fixed in a couple of days....

[still herald]

Damn, wich server is that one?

[still herald]

Anyway, its not an error or bug. Just work into expectations...

[shy sky]

this is my server. Godless Ruins 7

[still herald]

I hope they never merge us with you

[shrewd locust]

There's no way this is V4 right? This is more than double our biggest krakens on CBT server

[shy sky]

its my server man

[shrewd locust]

No I mean Vortex 4

[shy sky]

its realy 4 vortex

[sterile spruce]

"working as intended" 🤷‍♂️

[still herald]

Can u share some pics about equipment? Ive got a full inspired corrosion team guildmate who does a third of that...

[shrewd locust]

For real, idk how they would get that at v4.... best my server is doing is 550m and that's pretty stacked team and gear

Even if fully i5 and perfect gear, and on poison week I don't see that but I could be wrong

[thin fog]

They might as well just get rid of the Vortex bonuses meant for other elements and just do the Rook show at this point. Can’t wait to see what next seasons “Rook” will do, and what element they make him

[unkempt cape]

fire probably

gotta make the flora mains cry even more

[thin fog]

I was thinking Lightning

But that 1 mil plus compared to this Flora team on Fire week…maybe you are right. I’m not sure Flora has any tears left.

[mint fiber]

Weekly ability bonuses become meaningless

[random merlin]

Why is all this here in suggestion about Rook?

[zealous turret]

Cause players suggest to re-balance rook.

And i still agree on this although i own hin myself 🙂

[fallow pasture]

Because the epic and rare versions dont even do a 1/5 of his damage, none of the other exclusies do as much damage and he even put performs exclusives on their vortex element week. He is broken as he has no damage cap like Hvitar last season with continental which they fixed very very quickly

[random merlin]

Thanks JuJU

[nova prairie]

I found the solution - rename the game in *** Rook - Silent God***

[torn sky]

RatHeir !?
Em, dragon and rat may be similar species ....

[zealous turret]

A small info on this:

We had a team discussions just recently and the development team let us know:

They are aware of the feelings of parts of the community, they havent decided yet what they will be doing with Rook in the future but they are debating over it and are evaluating what they can do or should do.
We will keep you updated as soon as there is something to be updated.

I will NOT close this post, as it has been a good and mostly calm discussion in here.

Have a great day.

[low pulsar]

Thanks Tobi for the update!
Knowing that the issue has finally been picked up and being discussed is better than hearing nothing.
The following strategies of how they would tackle the Rook’s issue will be critical to this game in both short run and long run.
I will stay tuned and look forward to it.
Cheers.

[still herald]

As always, thank you for your work and for caring about the health of the game and its community.

We will continue to keep up to date with the news.

[fathom spoke]

A change like this would be Okay I think:
Rook removes some corrosion from the boss(like 50%(for example, don’t go mad about it)). So in that way he can keep his OP dmg but with a cost. Basically he can hit like a truck for every 2-3 ultimate and not every one of it. Rook teams gonna stay the best and doing most dmg but not that broken amount they doing it right now.

It’s kinda a lose-lose situation for the devs(that’s why they never should come up with Rook as we know. Especially they “intended” him to work like this…) because if he stays like this… people gonna rage about it. If they nerf him, the whales gonna rage about it. And we know money is the moving part of any game which can be played for free, so don’t expect some big changes, maybe some small as they try to keep him overpowered, but not that much as him as now.

[unkempt cape]

Honestly... buffs to the other exclusives to reach his level would also work?

then the "chase unit" multiplies twelve-fold making it more accessible

[fathom spoke]

That’s 100% not going to happen

I love Hvitar but there is not a buff in the world she is gonna on the same lvl as Rook… ever 😄

All the other exclusives have 1 or more where they are bad

[crimson wing]

I agree, consume portion of the corrosion is likely to best way. If it is 20%, 30% or 50% I don't know. But something that keeps him good but get the week rotation advantage for other teams when the bufs benefit other teams.

And that this would serve as a lesson to devs, something to not be repeated.

[fathom spoke]

After the new update and the “Rook is working like we intended” thing I just know, they actually want to kill the game 😄

[shrewd locust]

Just to further illustrate the problem here - this is my Vortex team.

My gear and artis are significantly stronger than most Rook teams in the top 20. Lothair is significantly harder to build, and the team in general is much more stat dynamic and hungry than Rook teams.

Even relatively weak Rook comps are averaging nearly 200m more than me and it's MELEE week...

I'm ok with IB, Dauntless, Wild (which is awful without Flora) being moderately better than Lothair comps because they are specifically designed for single target so that makes sense.

But completely abandoning existing dmg schools and their exclusive units is awful development and business practice.

[low pulsar]

After seeing what they’ve implemented the latest changes to S1, I would not be surprised to see that they might just gonna change the whole game play system by replacing Vortex with a new boss and similar things to the continental bosses, rather than racking their brains on ‘balancing’ Rook.

And at the same time, telling from the game management style of Tencent, they definitely will introduce another powercreep in S4 to take the place of Rook.

So, by then, no more negative voices regarding Rook because he will become ‘less OP’ and we can no longer be able to argue with them about ‘Rook balancing’…

They value new players more than the veteran ones. They prefer to aim for short term fast cash flow rather than long term stable growth from loyal players.
What can we expect?

And from what I see, they never give a concrete answer or solid planning on the hot topics.
They did give us an answer on Rook’s issue, as well as many others (e.g implement S1 changes to S2&3): We heard you. We are doing our best on it. But we can’t tell you when and how.

Poor communication (between dev team and players) leads to player’s frustration.
Inexperienced PR (no proper explanation and publish prior to the S1 change implementation) brings disunited player community.
Short-sighted game planning brings uncertainty and confusion to the game future.

Sometimes running a game is similar to how we treat a person:

Be generous to others and feel from their perspective, the others will treat you the same —>

Be generous to players and feel from players’ prospective, players will be generous to throw their cash into your pocket (even more than happy to do so).

[honest bramble]

If its a long term fight you can bring multiple damage dealers too, how would Rook still not be #1 in a new vortex mode?
He would be unless there is a specific mechanic to counter him.

[urban current]

I m now in S2. Tbh, my team was always bad at vortex, i havent got just the right heroes to make amazing results.

But for competing, if i wont get rook from the S3 banner, i m basically beaten down by anybody who has been lucky and get him.
Do i really want to lose because i wasnt lucky or I havent paid enough? (And there are whales who paid thousands and dont get him XD)
Yeah, there are other very strong heroes, Synarell, Fathomdown, couple etc.
But from point of competing, nobody has matter. That dmg gap is soo huge that it is really difficult to compete with it.

Iceblast with exclusive? Nah.

Wild with exclusive?
Poison with exclusive?
Dauntless with exclusive?

Vortex for season ranking matters. It is day by day, 89 attempts.
Then there is continental. There you also get season rss.
OW is ok, there is just one "Rook" team. And dmg up 22M doesnt matter.
But then there is a end boss. Rook teams will make crazy high dmg.
The end boss rewards shifts ranking by quite a far.
I m ok to lose competition to whale players with inspirations. I m not ok to lose because of rng...cause one hero....

And yes, like people said, it will be overcrept in S4, S5 etc. I dont want to play game when it will be decided by "lucky" pulls.

[fathom spoke]

Oh yeah. Please devs do something with Rook BEFORE s3 servers reach the end boss… the boss is gonna die in 2 days because of Rooks.

[shrewd locust]

Well that's not how end boss works lol

[fallow pasture]

End boss dies when server does 100% damage, more damage you do the quicker it dies

[icy valley]

Are you sure? We’ve never really had champs hitting 1 billion before and the end boss was progressing by automatically because people weren’t doing enough damage.. maybe it is possible to do more than 10% per day with enough damage.

[fallow pasture]

Server one killed the boss in less than 6days because of the amount of damage they did

And that was season2

Theres no cap on damage

[icy valley]

Wow season 2. So unless they add a tonne of health season 3 can likely clear it in a few days then.

[mortal ridge]

I think with rook squads, 3-4 days this season

[fallow pasture]

The best would be to keep bombarding customer care to fix and don't stop till they do

[amber sapphire]

thats what I do - ''Rook working as expected, but we thinking about it...'' They will suddenly realize its really op at final boss maybe and they will nerf it for S4 and push a new op character for S4. As someone said, the focus seems to be for new player recruitment to go thru S1 which has x10 the content and then spend some. For long-time players there is whailing for a op char of the season, but not much else.

[fathom spoke]

Well that’s exactly how end boss works lol. 😉

[honest bramble]

Well damage was massively reduced at 200mil, so whilst there was no cap, there was a significant drop in damage after 200 mil

[still herald]

Aschetius obliterated the Boss even with that cap. Rook will not be left behind, unless they invent some way to "disable" him vs the Final Boss.

[honest bramble]

Of course he will obliterate the boss.
He is broken.
All I was saying was that there is at least a slow down mechanic on the boss once Rook reaches 200mil after 3 min

[unkempt cape]

watch them just make the boss immune to corrosion

[honest bramble]

That won’t happen

[nova ingot]

To me the problem is not Rook - the problem is corrosion has no cap. Any other mechanic has cap except corrosion. So just put a cap on amount of corrosion that can be placed on target and problem solved without the need to nerf any hero.

[crimson wing]

Well, but the only hero that brake the dmg numbers is rook. Make him consume portion of the corrosion pool and problem is solved

[sterile spruce]

Corrosion is nothing without rook. Nobody can really make use of it. And the rare hero that can, just consumes it

[nova ingot]

Nah it would be bad approach. Look at Jatha. Her ult works exactly as Rook's - she deals extra damage for every poison stack on target, and has no cap either. If the number of poison stack were unlimited she would be as broken as Rook. Ok maybe not as much since she removes stacks while Rook does not remove corrosion. But you can see my point - make sure mechanics are valid and then you don't need to worry about specific heroes.

[sterile spruce]

I don't think it would make that much difference if poison stacks are capped or not for this example. She removes them all and once ult is up again you won't have enough time to apply that many stacks actually

[crimson wing]

Whisk is very good, not for long battles like vortex. But on fey I've used whisk without rook in many of the battles.

[sterile spruce]

Yes, because he has good kit. Has nothing to do with his archetype. Might as well be dauntless or wild or whatever

[crimson wing]

Jhata if I remember correct consume all the poison and that makes her kind of mediocre.

Make rook consume portion of the corrosion and you can bring balance. I don't know if the balance is on 10%, 30% or 50%, that's up for testing.

But this would keep rook dmg under control because corrosion poll wouldn't increase so much as it is now.

[valid drift]

Aschetius reached 200+M on his second ulti, around 45s of play. I was doing 380 400M so it would have been 2,2kM damage without the 10% limited damage after 200M.
I cant imagine what an i2 i5 could have reached.
But almost noone asked for his nerf because it wasnt something that all could see (not judging if corrosion needs an adjustment or not, but meaning that aschetius would have prolly required the same treatment in s2). I dont know if rook i0 is auto fey 1 to 180 like aschetius was also lol.
Balancing isnt easy, i m not happy to see theo i0 do more damage in venom 9 than thelendor i1 (at lvl 90 170% crit dam, but without lorentheel) as long as there s at least 3 or more targets, but thats how i will feel in each season i think, and i believe the rook design is a marketting design to make sure dolphin++ still feel the need to wallet each season (i expect it to happen in almost each season, as the game design doesnt allow them a lot of other possibilities for new gacha, like a spirit companion banner, or anyother type of new money sink design).

[rotund glen]

i mean you are trolling obv because you are intentionally leaving out the part of how many targets we had on s2 end boss. nobody asked for aschetius nerf because he is the best in AoE situations and he was no where near top on continental/vortex. what sort of rat defender club did this come from.

I would have no problem if Rook was at top in vortex but he is at top in all 3 aspects that generate seasonal rank points - vortex-continental-end boss , that's just bad design

I guess Vicana also needs a nerf

by that logic

[valid drift]

I didnt mean to troll. Yes s2 boss was designed that way. But yes, i think aeschetius compared to any exclusive aoe s1 was a huge power increase in only 3 months.
Though, my main point was to underline thats its probably intended to keep their income at a rate that only them knows, and it happen fast (sadly) and it could be the pace at wich they want to implement new op heroes (not only exclusive ones) each season. Honestly i d rather that instead of them inventing new money sink.
That being said, s4 banner will tell us if rook was a design mistake or an intended marketting move. Its only my opinion.

[valid drift]

(Aeschtius was op in any kind of aoe in the game, pillar, fey, venom, etc which is fine there s no ranking)

[rotund glen]

i can agree on the money part it's just i don't think Rook is even close to aschetius

I think it's Fine that Aschetius is OP in AoE , because on single target situations Flora is still better and from the looks of it will be better on end boss in s3 - i think that is great

Same for IB - they were good in Vortex , but Frost was way better for s2 end boss

[valid drift]

Thats only what i wanted to underline xd
I think s4 banner will be rich in information about the pace they intend to keep to outdate previous heroes

[rotund glen]

Rook is just boring - bets everywhere idk who has fun with that from player perspective

[rotund glen]

yeah we all waiting to see s4 banner it will also direct future season because if they add 3 new damage archetypes we will see 🙂

[valid drift]

I was wondering if they d add exclusive outside of damage schools to alternate, but anything is possible. I believe money direct their decision a lot, if s3 banner was an inceeased spending compared to s2 one, then they would try to repeat what works for them, imho

[unkempt cape]

Problem is that rook is best in aoe AND single target.

Unless a fight specifically says "Screw you poison dps archetypes" he'll run rampant

[amber sapphire]

I thought I have a chance at top 20 Vortex on Cold bonus week with IB

[unkempt cape]

yeah the dude doing 1 bill on my server's pretty obnoxious

[amber sapphire]

Wuwa around the corner

[shrewd locust]

Guy jumped up to 1b on ours from 600m yesterday, the other whales haven't figured out how yet

[random merlin]

I thought this was a suggestion channel

[thin fog]

It is, and the suggestion in this thread summarized is that Rook is too OP as he is right now and should be toned down for the betterment of the game.

[random merlin]

Oh sorry, it is all beginning to blend together in a big blur😉

[fathom spoke]

Its Still hilarious how a i0 Rook team can do 400+M dmg on vortex and they say “it’s intended and he don’t need a nerf”……….

[devout slate]

hey when Poison and Burn have cap why this corrosion dont have cap ? this is unbalanced thing ever i seen in game sector

[fathom spoke]

Because they don’t have any idea what they doing(beside they want our money)

[shy sky]

400m) haha on my server rook+5 deal 1.5kkk

[fathom spoke]

Who talked about Rook+5? 🤔

[shy sky]

What I mean is that Rook+0 can still be interrupted by flora or Nastya+5, but Rook+5 and even together

[fathom spoke]

No one is using those teams If they can use a Rook0 🤣🤣

[silent mica]

Devs: Its balance if everyone has Rook.

[icy valley]

Working as intended.

Not balanced

Completely unbalanced, as intended.

[silent mica]

Lets say if they wont do anything about it and after few months more people will have Rook... then top 300 will be only Rook. But other people that have wild, dauntless, Aura, Iceblast and so on wont exist anymore. Sad but true if they wont fix it.

Even wild/dauntless teams wont be placment with right vortex buff Kekw.

[icy valley]

Just wait for Crook, Rooks big brother in season 4. His special attack empties your wallet and does 5 billion damage in vortex.

[fathom spoke]

Just give every player a Rook.

Problem solved

Its gonna be 50$ devs. You are Welcome.

Also dear devs or mods. Where is the “the update is bad” thread? Something happened to it… 🤔🤔

[thin fog]

I don’t believe they had any intention of reworking Rook. The whole “They are aware of the feelings, haven’t decided what to do yet, and we’re debating and evaluating what they can or should do” seems like it was all just a stall tactic meant to appease the players until the season was over. Well played Devs. It’s a shame. For once I actually thought a mobile game seemed to have Devs that actually gave a damn about their player base and listened constructively to their concerns and acted quickly one way or the other.

[lament bough]

Oooooooh, Getem boiiiiiiii!

[lament bough]

Better be careful though, you may get the ban hammer with a comment like that.

[thin fog]

It’s all good. Everything I said is my truth, and how I feel about it.They can easily prove my thoughts wrong…but I doubt they will.

[amber sapphire]

I have spoken to their reps like 10-15. Times and they have said all these times that they are 1. not going to fix it 2. They are not making it available deterministically 3. Its working as intended. 4. Thanks for the feedback. I gave up and moved on as someone said “with my money and time” to another rover game. And yea, considering how tragic the whole s3 has been I doubt there will be any s4. Perhaps a final event to milk ppl and close it

[fathom spoke]

Oh I’m sure there is gonna be something to milk people one last time.

[amber sapphire]

yea the semi-anni and wrap it up

[silent mica]

Just want to add another thing, I really got lucky with legos this season ( was happy about it for while) but after time when really thinking... All just a big lie, nothing is good now until u get rook. You are nothing unless you have Rook. Who cares now if u get others heros when its a rook that is god tier. Like a lvl is way high. ROOK ROOK ROOK

https://tenor.com/view/donowall-gif-23654124

[scarlet oasis]

Hard not to agree with this. You can literally have any other hero in your roster, even with inspirations and perfect gear rolls. Still u won't beat rook on vortex even if you get a bonus affinity DMG scaling. That's bonkers.

[shrewd locust]

I mean the worst part about all of this is they decided to make the most over the top power creep OP hero in the game a RAT

You could've done anything else. Could've made a hobbit, could've reskinned Follie for the 5th time... but a rat???

[unkempt cape]

yeah obviously it should have been sagomir's grey cousin

[silent mica]

WHAT BIG JOKE

[fathom spoke]

Devs dont care about the game or the players

Only money

Its a Shame

[proven star]

Rook needs to be nerfed. Not gutted. Just balanced. He overperforms massively

[silver fjord]

All because the developers don't play their game.
I propose to organize a mass protest and do not enter the game for two weeks.

[fallow pasture]

Ooooh if players do that then i can maybe have a chance at ranking

[fathom spoke]

“Working as intended”

Translation:
Spend a lot of money to get a chance for Rook, so you gonna have a chance for top50.

[fathom spoke]

+1 😂

[icy valley]

Yeah game was not p2w enough so they had to make some fixes. That’s why they don’t care about giving away free resources to s1, because that season becomes irrelevant fast.

[fathom spoke]

And that’s exactly why they never going to give the compensation for s2-3

Because then you can just pull Rook with that, so no money for them

https://tenor.com/view/goodnight-okkurr-im-smart-think-smile-gif-12399869

[clear ferry]

Exactly

[weary nacelle]

I think the devs continued refusal to balance Rook at this point simply points to the fact that they no longer care about the longevity of the game.

I used to be one of the patient ones saying that I'll keep paying the game as long as it's fun but I really dont see a future in the game anymore with the way the devs are running it. S4 better be good or I think it's over for me and many others.

[urban current]

I think devs kinda know that the ship is sinking. But they have been bought before month or more ago. And I hope Tencent don’t want the dead game

[silver fjord]

Rook is the same in season 4. You can drop this game.

the developers don't want to admit they made a mistake.

[crimson wing]

Yeah, consuming portion of corrosion or puting a cap on the number of extra atks would be an easy fix.

If they bring rook to a dmg level compatible to other exclusive on their buffed vortex week it would all be fine.

Me as a rook owner would not be upset with that, would just make the game better and give trust for the future of the game.

[amber sapphire]

Yea. S4 in a nutshell -> pull new s4 heroes and then see Rook take top 100+ spots in all boss content or even worse a new powerhouse that is 20+ times the damage. As they said Rook is supposed to beat everyone's score 20 times over and its intended, what are you still doing here.

[weary nacelle]

The continual refusal to rebalance Rook proves to me that 1) devs don't play the game and 2) they don't care to balance the game.

Which basically means they don't care about competition in the game.

Which means that the core facet of competitiveness is ruined, and the game has no future because frankly 90% of the "content" is in the form of competition.

The idea that Rook is supposed to "excel" purely in Vortex is frankly untrue as he is also broken in every boss fight. What other champion does 500m in Continentals?

[silver fjord]

I suggest writing to their e-mail I think it is useless to write here, managers will not pass anything [e-mail]

and I think we should organize a protest not buying battle path.

[zealous turret]

The discord crew passes suggestions forward, please dont make false assumptions here. The OP is a helper himself, so he knows how to make an entry. But there is only so much we can do about it, it is not our decision to maie, just to make sure it gets heared(read). And believe me, i was one of the first to point this issue out and he did even got nerfed prior to release (he used to have his corrosionpower at 10k, not at 30k )

Will they change something in the future? I dont know, but either way, it will cause a backlash of players, so maybe thats why they hesitate

[weary nacelle]

Personally I think it is worse for the game to leave him as is... unless they are planning on something even more broken in S5 and are just gonna pretend he doesn't exist until then

Which I suppose is a fair way of going about it

Not one that bodes well for the game, but it's a viable path that doesn't require the devs to backtrack on their words and anger the krakens

[zealous turret]

My Personal choice would be to tune him step by step so it isnt as bad in one go... just do the 30k to 40, than to 50 in steps... players will cry for compensation anyway if he gets adjusted, although all game related stuff is ALWAYS subject to changes according to all game TOS (never seen it not being im any game)... so dont tune him "whimpy" but leave him topnotch but not like 10x as strong.

The downside of doing these finetuning is, he will not be very viable in dungeons anymore, and especially early in the seadon he will be throwing "cotton candy attacks"...

[near osprey]

Just need to reduce corrosion residence time,and its done. Dont need to touch Rook himself

[sterile spruce]

Or make him consume corrosion or cap it....I don't understand why for example aura is so heavily capped... dealing a very few % of max HP DMG that is then capped at something minor like 300 of their attack
Might as well give aura just those attack multipliers in the first place... totally useless

[crimson wing]

Rook can still be the best hitter without being broken. I have him and wouldn't have any problem on having him reasonably nerfed.

He can still be the best one, but he should not outdamage fully inspired dauntless , wild and ice blast on their vortex buff week.

There are multiple ways of nerfing, don't necessarily compromising him on dungeons.

Can consume part of the corrosion pool (very little effect on dungeons), make a cap on extra atk (no effect on dungeons), increase the the 30k...

I don't know the answer, it is up for devs testing, they have ways of testing it that we don't. But I am sure there is a way of making it much batter than it is now.

[silver fjord]

I think we should share our opinion with the developers by sending a letter to their mailbox. I think if several people write, not just me, they will think about it.

[still herald]

You also have at your disposal the option of sending your feedback through #💡┆feedback-bot .

You can be sure that all your opinions are collected and made available to the Devs. What they decide is already beyond our reach as Mods/Helpers, but I assure you that as players, who we are too, we want the best for the game and we take care of sending all your suggestions and feedback.

[crimson wing]

And just adding to this. If you are afraid of players complaint. Just send and email with a OK compensation (don't even need to be super good compensation) for s3 players, both for rook owners who had him nerfed and all other players who had to live with broken rook for a while season.

Being rumble, correcting mistakes and being generous never gets old and will be supported by the large majority of players. Oposit of what is happening now.

[valid bluff]

Hi all, if you are playing in S3 could you share your leader board and highlight Rook teams with green marker & dauntless teams with red?

I know it might not be the best place to ask for it, but it would get lost in the general chat

[rotund glen]

dauntless in s3 ? are you high

[valid bluff]

give me Ice Blast too then - use blue marker 🙂

[rotund glen]

nobody plays dauntless cuz no supports

[valid bluff]

I will take even i5 ones 😛

[rotund glen]

yeah the only one that did that quit

on our server at least

[valid bluff]

I know, that is why I ask others

[rotund glen]

why tho ?

[valid bluff]

I know it sounds crazy but I want to collect some data and do some math, must be father day blues as I got some "me" time finally

[rotund glen]

i see well you gonna have better data for dauntless in s4 since they are the best thing we got before rook 😄

[valid bluff]

I want it before S4 tho 😄

Wrong chat

[silver fjord]

@valid bluff

[valid bluff]

Thanks

[weary ravine]

@valid bluff Server: the Faithless Ruins X. Week: 30% more lightning damage.

[thick lynx]

@valid bluff
Not a single dauntless in top 20.
Cayn colour is Blast while non coloured are Wild/Burn
We are in the last week of Iladiah btw

[honest bramble]

Gorax is worried his Rook is underpowered in s4.
Only 2x the nearest other comp

[silver fjord]

The owner is afraid for his pet. Except he doesn't realize that if things don't get better, no one will watch his videos.

[valid bluff]

actually about 25% better than 2nd best team

[silver fjord]

it was a quick test, it's useless.

[honest bramble]

Yep, as you already said its not min maxed

Probably no elemental affinity

Anything that keeps the run going longer just means he pulls further ahead

[willow solstice]

@valid bluff
Week boss takes 30% more radiant damages
No Dauntless team in top 50.
Server Faithless Ruins IV

Green : Corrosion (Rook)
Yellow : Wild
Orange : Rally
Blue : Ice Blast
Pink : Poison (Lothair)

[valid bluff]

Once I finish covering all new heroes I will start min maxing the teams and try them on V4.

But so far it looks like Rook scaling is still powerful - Varathorn team survived extra 2 minutes with better affinity and did almost 80m more dmg than my Rook team, however his dauntless team which survived almost 3 minutes longer with better affinity did 12M less dmg than my dauntless team.

Hopefully more will share their results so we can push for another nerf just like we did in S3.

[fathom spoke]

Pretty “funny” how a basic Rook with purple or even blue artifact can out dmg any other i5 team

Nerf? Nah. “We intended to work like this”

So it’s basically just bad developing 😅

[half hinge]

I wonder If Rook is still a domain force in S4, would Rook owners spend money to pull new hero. Ye shining S4 heroes look doge but why would they waste money on those weakling who can't compete with Rook, ehehe . If I got Rook, I will save dice and money until they release any thing which can beat Rook.

[silver fjord]

s4 test server

[still herald]

As expected

[silent mica]

Rip @valid bluff not worth to try out anymore

Seems i won't make 100m dmg in season 4

[silver fjord]

I realized that when he was doing the other world boss tests. without the emperor's set LUL

video for video's sake, just to put something up.

[valid bluff]

And yet all the goals have been achieved, so If I do it with wrong gear, you will do it better with the right one 🙂

[honest bramble]

They aren’t even using Syn yet so not sure that is even an optimal lineup for Rook this season.

Although I can’t say for certain which are the best two supports since I don’t have them all and no test server.

[honest bramble]

As i said, way in front with Syn. So obvious.

[fathom spoke]

“Work as intended”

[silver fjord]

Rook after s4 update

[weary nacelle]

Eh no changes there

[half hinge]

Balanced

[amber sapphire]

Yea I cannot make myself login even… after being R1-3 each season. They really screwed the game.