#Theowin patch bug

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

river cedar
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The patch said it changed skill description.

• Epic Hero [Mecha Maniac - Theohein]: Fixed the skill description error of Theohein's battle skill [Small-scale Testing] at Skill Level 2 and Level 3. The incorrect upgrade effect [Damage +100%] has been corrected to be [Damage +10%].

You changed the damage. She does less damage since the patch.

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Why did you do this? Aura was already underpowered. Now you just nerfed the only non exclusive damage dealer. Making Aura garbage without the exclusive.

river cedar
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Pre patch

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Post patch same gear

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Theowin has lost over 33% of her damage

errant quest
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Dear Traveler,

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused. According to our team's verification, there was indeed an abnormality in the previous numerical display, resulting in an error in the damage value of Theohein's battle skill "Small-scale Testing." We have corrected this issue in the latest version update, adjusting the damage value to the correct "damage +10%." While this may be disappointing for you, our goal is to create a fair gaming environment for all travelers.

We will continue to work on optimizing the game content to provide you with a better gaming experience. Thank you very much for your love and support for the game, and we wish you a pleasant time playing! If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.

river cedar
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Firstly, don’t mislead us in the release notes. You didn’t just adjust the skill description. You adjusted the skill damage.

Secondly you have now nurfed this champion. We have good epics like Gerthin and Tonalnan. So who said this champion was doing too much damage? They were not. They are now useless along with all the other aura champions apart from the exclusive and Diantha.

It’s ridiculous how broken champions like rook are, and you now nerf an epic.

I now have a skilled up level 100 champion who is useless.

river cedar
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If this game goes too far down the path of the exclusives being the only damage dealers people will quit.

ruby furnace
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I have only ever heard people speak well of Theohein. Never heard anyone claim she was too powerful or strong, just always thought of her as a good champion.
As someone who uses a fair amount of dice but isn't lucky enough to get any exclusives champions like Theohein and Gerthin made playing the game fun. You could still do ok dmg keep up close enough on dmg races to feel like the game wasn't pointless.
Anyone who has learned any math can see the scaling issues with most aura champions why nerf one of the only ones who wasn't built to be terrible from the start, especially the only one available to all players.

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This change can only hurt the game, you are literally letting the community know they should get exclusives or not bother playing.

arctic epoch
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Agreed, there was NOTHING "Unfair" about theowin's damage. She was NOT overpowered. This is a terrible change with a damage type that is already very poor and underwhelming. Decreasing her damage was completely unnecessary.

hollow karma
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So what about now that we have skilled up a champion who got nerfed ? It's like a wasting of epic scrolls. Can we hope a change in the next patch or if not, it could be nice to give us the possibility to get back our scrolls please.

river cedar
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Scrolls back is nice, but the core issue for me is that we need non exclusive champions capable of doing decent damage. She was doing 3/4 of the damage of the exclusive, although the equipment on each was different so its not a direct comparison.
Now she does under half.

hollow karma
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Totally agree but i've some doubt that they will move back to initial damage configuration

nova moat
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As far as i know, player saw the +100% and reported it as they are used to heroes having a +5% and +10% to shield and attack etc so it was reported as a visual bug or something along those lines.

arctic epoch
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But her actual damage was effected for real as he shows. And I'm now seeing myself.

nova moat
arctic epoch
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Her damage was not OP though; that's the problem; not at all... she was a great DPS, sure, but no reason at all to nerf what she wasn't doing. It wasn't broken crazy damage for an Epic or anyone

ruby furnace
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she wasn't even close to the top epic dmg, she was just a solid champ

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in a subtype that is considered bad

river cedar
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She brings nothing except damage, so she needs to do some

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No buffs to her team, no debuffs etc

ruby furnace
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and no subtype champions to boost her like gerthin/araces have

nova moat
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Ive asked if the staff could talk to devs about doing a retake but im not promising anything

river cedar
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Thank you

mortal ginkgo
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I would suggest that the max hp% caps across the board for aura need reviewing potentially also as beyond the exclusive who has 100% base critical hit chance they simply output weak damage compared to most other types

nova moat
ruby furnace
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but for this tread specifically, everyone was happy with theo as is, a reasonable dps that was useable by all. And for a "fair gaming experience" she is now a bad dps that does nothing else, in a subtype people already don't want to use unless they happen to be the lucky few with aemon.
I get translation issues, but that is a gross misuse of the word fair .

vale gust
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One thing that no one in this thread is considering is that maybe the nerf is considerate of unreleased content ie end boss. The fact that you want an aoe dmg school to be outright as good as a single target damage school at single target things is silly.

arctic epoch
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There's nothing about her AoE damage that is "broken" and needing to be nerfed regardless. It's not about vortex; it's about her being nerfed for no reason, period.

vale gust
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You don't know that it's no reason

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That's your speculation

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But aura is performing similarly well to wild with relatively similar comp on Vortex... does that also mean Wild should perform similarly well on AOE content? Cause I promise it won't

nova moat
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Remember to keep things civil, keep calm and respectful

vale gust
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I'll give you guys a perfect example - Talwer, Stega, and Nissa were all considered very subpar and underpowered last season, however all of them were excellent at end boss and integral to 200m comps, same with Vicana and Jalathea. On the epic side of things, units like Araces, Shink, Pargu were also very underwhelming for most content but were absolutely stellar at end boss.

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How do you guys know that this nerf is not prudent?

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Conversely, dauntless and IB absolutely demolished vortex and ST content all season, but both were completely useless at end boss....

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Should every damage school and every dps unit be competitive at everything, or are trade offs and balance fair?

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I understand frustration at communication, but knee jerk reactions are shallow and short sighted.

stark summit
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@vale gust I agree with your entire post. Gotta look at the whole picture

ruby furnace
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Its easy to feel that way about aura when the majority of how it is enabled is to do with the gain of its energy which is disabled while in blaze. So all gains during blaze are lost, that is a huge issue with aura. Also you are referring to legendary champs that were bad at most of the game but excellent at a very specific part of the season. That is in no way a comparison to essentially the epic version of an exclusive.

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I made great use of araces in lots of places, I even managed to make some use out of hirvolm. Everyone gets lots out of gerthin. Theo was doing exactly as would expect from the accessible version of the exclusive, same role not as much dmg, but enough dmg bother with.

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This thread isn't about aura as a whole, it is about how the Theo nerfs are a terrible precedent.

ruby furnace
vale gust
# ruby furnace It has been considered, if that was the case it would at the very least also mea...

I can agree with you that it is a slippery slope, and Theo here seems like an odd target. But to be frank, Aura ST potential should be nerfed, the same with Shadow. The difference between Shadow and Aura is just that the epics are no where near the same quality or lethality... Aura epics far out perform Shadow epics in dps, both ST and aoe. But conceptually, both Shadow and Aura are overperforming in single target.

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It would be like if they made Burn dps on par with dauntless in S2. Currently burn, even with Aschetus and his arti, are no where NEAR aura in terms of st, and only slightly better in aoe, if at all.

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This season Aura willd keep up with Wild on Vortex, and will completely eclipse it on all other aoe content. Theo nerf is just a drop in the bucket to mitigate that.

river cedar
river cedar
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This is crazy compared to Corrosion.
Rook is the most op champion in the game and he is aoe.
So he is the king of single target and will be the king of an aoe boss fight.

And you want to nerf Aura and Shadow??? Do you own rook or something.

vale gust
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I think there should be a clear difference in performance between units that are solely single target and units that are aoe in their respective sphere of expertise. This balance existed prior to s3, but with all 3 of the new damage schools it basically power creeps the entire concept.

river cedar
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My Aura team was in the 90’s for rankings on Vortex.
The biggest creep is Corrosion, so it was strange you called out Shadow and Aura is all.

vale gust
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They are all equally guilty of it. Corrosion is definitely alarming with how much it dominates Vortex, basically displacing even dauntless. But Rook himself is not more dmg than Ozul or Aemo at aoe, and he's really only part of the problem.

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The fact that he's in an element with Oggok is what really seals it.

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As someone who has Ozul, I'm telling you he is also v busted, even single target. And if necro were in a more favorable affinity, like with fire... especially with the introduction of Syn, it would be eye opening.

river cedar
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I can agree all S3 is a power creep as I have said that before.

errant quest
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Dear all Travelers,

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused. Regarding the issue of the incorrect damage configuration of Theohein's battle skill "Small-scale Testing," we have corrected it to 10% yesterday to ensure a fair gaming environment. We understand that this correction may result in a reduction in the hero's damage output, so we have specifically applied for Oblivion Scroll as compensation for travelers who have upgraded this hero's skill before the bug fix. If you have upgraded this hero's skills, please provide your character ID. Once verified, we will send the compensation to your in-game mailbox.

Thank you for your continuous support and love for our game. We look forward to your reply.

river cedar
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Hi Lydia
So is the plan for this game moving forward to have exclusives, without their artifact, do twice as much damage as the next best damage dealer in their sub type?
As that is what you have just done.

This is a dangerous slope. People will not play if the exclusives are the only way to compete with other players, and the exclusives are never in summon banners during the seasons.

nova moat
river cedar
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What I mean - I posted a screenshot above of Theo’s damage post nerf where she does half of the exclusives damage. And I don’t have the exclusive artifact. I don’t even have a Lego damage artifact for the exclusive, I am just using the eyeball.

And the exclusives are never part of the in season limited champion summon banners so they are very hard for standard players to get.

nova moat
river cedar
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Gerthin doesn’t do half of the exclusive
Same for many other sub types

Of course they should do more. But double? And who knows, triple or more with inspirations and artifact?

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The other factor here is that the other aura legos are very bad damage dealers. Without the exclusive auras damage is now pathetic.
Lincos is a joke, his ult does 400% damage and his “buff” only works when the one ally he is buffing is yin blaze state. I.e. less than half the time

nova moat
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Im trying to see if there is difference in damage when its singular target or multiple targets.

Though this would need to be a new ticket showing how other epic heroes do x damage with their exclusive hero vs theo and her exclusive.

Alot of testing will now need to be done to gather enough evidence to show that other epic damagers do X amount more that Aura etc and then that can be handed in to show what you mean. So one can always ask a CC to show the differences

Example
iB against singular targets with exclusive
Frost against groups
Poiseners groups
Dauntless singular
Aura groups
Etc etc etc
Only then do you have the statistics that you need to prove what you mean.

This is the most i can say to try help you

river cedar
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I would love to test
But I don’t have test server
And training ground doesn’t allow you to choose the level of your heroes
And I don’t have all heroes

But yes a cc can test everyone
Which the devs should do as part of the design

river cedar
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I am actually a test engineer as my day job, so I would be more than happy to test this all.

However, direct compares between sub types are no easy.
The other thing to remember is Wild and Corrosion for example, the exclusive is boosted by having other people of the same type in the team.
Theo and her exclusive don’t boost each other at all.

Also, I have more than proven what I originally posted.
I originally reported that Theos damage was nerfed, which wasn’t stated in the release notes.
I have also shown that she used to do approx 3/4 of the damage the exclusive does, now she does at best a half.

vale gust
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Lincos does not require the recipient to be in blaze state, it only requires HIM to be in blaze state

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Just as Gerthin and Belle are not designed to be played together, the same can be said of Theo and Aemon

open patrol
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what's the TLDR this is too much to read

river cedar
river cedar
river cedar
river cedar
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If Theo boosted the exclusives damage it would be fine. She does not.

vale gust
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Additionally, it still ignores the fact that we're talking ST. If you compare Theo's damage to a similar IB team - say Bleddyn Nord Gerthin vs Theo Careth and Narz... Theo would do almost as well as Gerthin.

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Now if you did the same test vs aoe, Theo would completely dominate Gerthin's dmg

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You're missing the point. Theo and Aemon are not designed to be played together

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The same way Gerthin and Belle are not designed to be played together

river cedar
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We are talking about the epic vs the exclusive. You are trying to change the topic, and saying incorrect stuff re lincos

river cedar
vale gust
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Narz and Cath are both enablers

river cedar
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Enablers don;t boost the damage by 5%

vale gust
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The disparity between Gerthin and Belles dmg is the same as Theo vs Aemon

river cedar
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There enables are crap

vale gust
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Cath boosts ulti dmg by 40% and Narz is Lincos lite...

river cedar
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And their enablers do no damage, unlike the other element enablers

river cedar
vale gust
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It's not true at all though. Again, you're using ST mechanics to justify a complaint against an aoe dmg school

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Cath and Narz both do similar dmg to Nord and Bleddyn so

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And they enable Theo/Aemon so idk what the problem here is

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The dynamic is literally the same, except aura can keep up with IB ST with similar comps, the same can not be said conversely

river cedar
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I’ve had enough of this garbage. Let’s all hope we pull exclusives or deal no damage. Not listening to your babble any more

vale gust
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You realize that Cath Narz and Theo is doing similar dmg to Gerthin Bleddyn and Nord right now? I single target?

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It's like you're just skimming over the fact that it's doing a LOT more st dmg than it should to begin with

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No ofc an epic is not gonna compete with an exclusive in dmg wtf

river cedar
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I never said they should. I said 50% is too little, especially as once the exclusive is empowered and has their artifact is will be more like 3x as much.
Also, theowin is a pure damage dealer, she doesn’t boost the exclusive. So she should do more damage than an enabler.

vale gust
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If you paired Belle with Bleddyn and Gerthin, Gerthin would do less than half of Belles dmg and only slightly more than Bleddyn...

river cedar
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Bleddyn enables one person so that is a stupid comparison

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You need to compare them as two separate pairs

vale gust
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You're missing the conceptual point, these teams are designed to be played 2 enablers 1 dps.

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Not 1 enabler 2 dps

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So you're getting less out of Aemon by running her with Theo

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And you're getting less out of Theo by running her with Aemon

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And again, you STILL have not touched on the fact that you're comparing ST only lol

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Which is not what the dmg school is designed for to begin with

river cedar
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That iss because that is your arguement. I am comparing the epic and the exclusive. And so ST vs AOE is irrelevant as they both do aoe

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I am well aware. I have ranked top 20 both seasons.
Many teams can one better with one dps and one enabler.
If I had Cath I would try her.
Lincos is broken if you bothered to read the bug report

vale gust
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It's not irrelevant because the gap between Aemon and Theo would be less in an aoe situation...

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Lol, because you say that Lincos is bugged that means he is? Lydia literally told you he's not bugged that's how he's designed

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Maybe you should try to time Lincos ult to synergize better

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Also, if you don't have Cath then you can't really comment. Again, this is literally identical to the dynamic between Gerthin and Belle

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Or Araces and Asch

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Or Shagrol and Nastjenka

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At this point you're just complaining about the design of the game.

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No one complains that Belle does twice as much dmg as Gerthin, and no one is trying to field them together

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Instead of complaining how things are designed, why not just play to the strengths of their design?

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Like ulting Lincos when Aemon is empty blaze

river cedar
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You said this, 100% wrong. “Lincos does not require the recipient to be in blaze state, it only requires HIM to be in blaze state”

river cedar
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And your wrong again. No equipment, the gap is bigger in aoe than ST

vale gust
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If he is blazed and she is empty and he does his ulti, then Aemon will get 35 energy and an accomplice attached to her

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Which is exactly how it's intentionally designed, for their ults to be staggered

river cedar
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You use him then and see how it works out for you

vale gust
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I did use him. With Theo and Carth. He had the interaction I'm describing with Theo

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Carth buffed her ult dmg

river cedar
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You are missing my point entirely.
For people without the exclusive, which I am lucky enough to have, each damage type needs a decent epic dps. Like gerthin, tonalnan etc.
I am simply saying Theo compared to the exclusive seems to weak.
If she was like this from the start maybe it wouldn’t have been noticed, by the stealth nerfed her.

vale gust
river cedar
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I know they are not designed to be used together

vale gust
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I'm saying that the disparity between Gerthin and Belle is the same disparity between Aemon and Theo

river cedar
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Good on you. I don;t have Belle so no idea

vale gust
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The dynamic and disparity between Theo and Aemon is the same as any other epic dps and their exclusive counterpart

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This is how it's designed

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And in fact, in the case of Shagrol vs Nastjenka, Nasty J outperforms Shagrol by a staggering amount

river cedar
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Why would you compare to Shagrol. He doesn’t;t get boosted. Compare to Shaltar.

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Ridiculous comparison

vale gust
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Schaltar's counterpart is Ivellios. Shagrol and Nastjenka are both enablers

river cedar
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Nastjenka’s ult does more damage with allies. Shaltar has no such thing.

vale gust
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... Schaltar's entire kit is based around allies enabling his dmg with their basic attacks

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His ult applies a buff to the team that makes him do deriv damage on a set chance when allies do a basic attack

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Maybe you should work on understanding game and unit mechanics before complaining about them

river cedar
vale gust
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Shagrol is Nastjenka's epic counterpart

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just like Theo is Aemon's...

river cedar
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Nasty is boosted by her allies. Shagrol is not. It’s not a reasonable comparison.

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It’s a stupid comparison

vale gust
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And Aemon has a lot more utility than Theo...

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Nastjenka is designed to be a direct upgrade to Shagrol, the same way that Tharivol is designed to replace Nimbus, the same way that Belle supercedes Gerthin, the same dynamic between Aemon and Theo

river cedar
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In your option. Interesting you ignore Shaltar. He is the epic alt, not Shagrol.

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You part of the design team?

vale gust
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Schaltar is the counterpart to Ivellios. Shagrol is counterpart to Nastjenka. Nimbus is counterpart to Tharivol.

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Lincos counterpart is Narzilla, Diantha counterpart is Cath, Aemon counterpart is Theo

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Bleddyn counter is Shinnah, Belle counterpart is Gerthin

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Zhorak counterpart is Nord

ruby furnace
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I don't want to be apart of this crazy argument, but gerthin is much better than 1/2 of bel dmg.
Also I would love to see the design team showcase how to use Aura without Aemon. Then replace all of those showcases with Aemon and fail to justify the discrepancy.
There is a difference between a subtype with the exclusive being better and a subtype where the exclusive feels necessary.
I can put more effort in to gearing and understanding and get completely dwarfed in dmg by people who just happen to get an exclusive. Not talking multiple inspirations and exclusive artifacts, just the base champion. In a game that daily and weekly scores the comparative damage you do.
The difference between Theo and Aemon was just right before the nerf.

Also getting the epic scrolls back is in no way compensation. Not even worth looking up my ID for.

vale gust
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You can use the Oblivion scroll on a leggo

mortal ginkgo
# vale gust But aura is performing similarly well to wild with relatively similar comp on Vo...

I mean flora is destroying aura so thats not the case - Aura **REQUIRES **Aemon to be able to get anywhere near enough damage and i'd argue without the exclusive artifact its really sub par to most comps especially in the new season 3 types with corrosion and shadow.

I will also add the whole concept of aura was in blaze being badass boss killers with max hp contributions. THe max hp is so insignificant that its largely just "does blaze let me deal more damage" aka i hit 3 times with aemon. The max HP being capped aggressively makes it weak and forgettable as a feature of aura.

Narzilla's a3 is super underwhelming dealing 11k damage on a 5000 attack build up to 6 times. So her ult is only 66k damage versus any legendary hero hitting and that assumes in blaze state. Careth's passive gives you 1 40% increased ult which is really quite weak versus an overall atk up or cdmg up (you get with someone like zhorak or tolnanen passive). Theo is dealing 620% vs 800% tolnanen (thats before his passive stacks) so is severly weakened. Gerthin Battle is 490% vs Theo 240%. The aura multipliers are underpowered to make teh Blaze Max HP a thing and that doesnt scale enough.

So Aura as an archetype is designed as a dual state mechanic where maximum damage is achieved in Blaze but in reality the additional max hp makes the non-blaze multipliers weaker to support htem but are not contributing enough damage to make it worthwhile and with "generators" only existing in legendary form of Diantha or Lincos you simply cant sustain blaze in a large enough period.

Compared to IB - Nord (rare) is able generate good crystals for your DPS. In Wild you have multple epic and rare champions generating wild stacks for the primary epic dps. In rally you can have an epic buffer and multiple allies replicate and generate rally stacks. Corrosion has 2 really good epics to generate and deal corrosion damage. In Shadow - Taldie is probably better at generating shadow then some of the legendaries in the right setup.

In my opinion Aura is Weak and is in the same book as Thunderbolt. Without Perkunte/Aemon, the archetypes have incredibly weak epic and rares that simply make the entire archetype sub-par and not worth using (just like poison too to some extent).

mortal ginkgo
errant quest
mortal ginkgo
spare sleet
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1513779240463372288 @errant quest - thanks

river cedar
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Pretty telling when even cc’s are asking for a scroll that this is a shockingly bad change

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ID - 1627917400817575936 - thanks…

river cedar
spare sleet
solar pewter
river cedar
spare sleet
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@errant quest Thank you

hollow karma
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Hello @errant quest I would like to kindly ask you to return my scroll from Theowin.
ID : 1742899981635081216
Name : KhazadDum

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Thanks 🙂

atomic chasm
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@errant quest Hello Lydia, another one who scrolled Theo before the nerf...

I think you'll already have me there, but I'll leave you the ID:

  • 1488024273677921280

Thank you WorryHeart

flint minnow
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Hi @errant quest, me too! Scrolled Theohein because of the 100% scroll atk bonus...
ID: 1558252313758336000
Thanks!

tawny karma
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@errant quest I’m another that had scrolled her before she was nerfed

1480565184704261120
Thanks