#Soul Exchange Shop - Necessary for Success

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

inner quiver
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Team - We have a problem that needs to be fixed. It's lead to high-spend players ceasing investing into the game. The good news is we have come up with a fix that would take just a few hours to implement and would benefit all parties.

First and foremost, let's summarize the problem/background a bit further for context:

  1. Chasing Exclusive champions becomes pointless. if you have ~100 duplicate souls that you cant use for anything, why continue trying for a low % chance of getting one the 3-4 you still need?

  2. Exclusive distribution is not equal from player to player and certain exclusive legendaries are mandatory to perform well in the season.

So now that we've reviewed this issue, let's move onto the fun part - the simple solution - Implementing a SOUL EXCHANGE SHOP. Details below:

In the soul exchange shop, only 3 listings are needed:

  1. Exclusive legendary soul (can be used to add 1 inspiration to any exclusive legendary champion) - Cost = 3 Exclusive Souls (note that only exclusive souls for exclusive legendary champions you have ALREADY FULLY INSPIRED can be used for this. In other words, you can't just trade exclusive souls for different exclusive souls because you want a different character. This feature is purely meant to protect players who get worthless exclusive legendary duplicates - at least it has some value then. This will also result in high-spend players resuming regular investment into the game because they no the investment isn't going to net them absolutely nothing useful even if they spend thousands of dollars, which is how the system is structured now.

  2. Exclusive legendary soul (same as above) - Cost = 25 normal legendary souls. Same concept applies as above as well; ONLY souls for characters that have already been fully inspired can be used in this shop. Again, this is meant to simply give value to the dozens, even hundreds, of worthless souls many high-spend players have. The cost of 25 is extremely high as well but, along the same vein as the above, will maintain an incentive for high-spend players to further invest in the game because they won't see utilizing heliolite dice as being totally pointless.

  3. Normal legendary soul - Cost = 3 normal legendary souls. Again, ONLY legendary souls for champions that are fully inspired at level 5 can be used. The only difference here is that this 3rd option is for normal legendaries ONLY and does not apply to exclusives.

Main Takeaway: I and many others have slowed or completely stopped spending to pull for champions because of this issue and it needs to be fixed. The solution I proposed here is an excellent one. If this is implemented, it will immediately lead to continued investment from the heaviest investors in the game (because there's a point to those dupes...) which results in higher budgets for game improvements, salaries for employees, and therefore a better experience for the FTP and low-spend players as well as it guarantees revenue will continue to flow and the community, full-stop, will flourish.

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@plucky edge @vapid robin feel free to pop in here as I know you've talked about this same issue repeatedly

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For reference, here are the 99 useless dupes i currently have

Dragonheir.png
plucky edge
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Take my upvote!

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I would further differnciate between an exclusive soul and legendary sould but at this point I would take anything lol

inner quiver
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^^^agreed, my friend

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3 to 1 exchange rate for exclusive to exclusive and 20 to 1 exchange rate for normal legnedary to exclusive is steep still

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but would make a good compromise

vapid robin
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Take my bigggggg upvote too

agile lance
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not that i eprsonally have any of those problems , but the solution seems to adress a big frustration the whales have. so i am all for it

vapid robin
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The only amendment i presently suggest is 20 normal legendary soul cost - not 25

glass path
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Whale problems

vapid robin
# glass path Whale problems

Without spenders games shut down - u need us - they are businesses after all and need money to continue providing us all with this AMAZING content TC_pepesmoke

glass path
vapid robin
glass path
hot citrus
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Players choose to spend however much they want/what to spend it on. This is a valid suggestion eventhough it may only affect a small percentage of players. Nonetheless they are still players and their input is just as important as anyone else. Please keep the conversation on topic. 🙂

vapid robin
tulip socket
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how would you differentiate an exclusive from non exclusive? I assume Utior and Drizzt would be exclusive, but what about the legendaries not in the banners? Like Flora, Nastjenka ect. Are they exclusive or not?

vapid robin
# tulip socket how would you differentiate an exclusive from non exclusive? I assume Utior and...

There are the 6 exclusive heroes whom have an exclusive artefact in the artefact exchange shop; Nastjenka, Flora, Lothair, Lewlanis, Theoendor and Hvitar…

and 6 exclusive heroes whom do not have an exclusive artefact which are khyrsos, mithrasea, reytah, elecbre, grishnaar, and berengar.

These heroes DO NOT drop on event banners and also have their own ‘drop patterns’ on the regular heliolite dice banner.

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They are also more powerful than most other heroes - they are like ‘mythical heroes’ in other games

tulip socket
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what does the last part of that mean?
"their own drop patterns"?

vapid robin
vapid robin
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Legendary Exclusive heroes do have the same equal drop rates as all other legendary heroes by loose definition BUT.. HOW (algorithm drop rules of probability), WHEN (soft caps and hardcaps per time-period based on overall activity) AND WHERE (revolving hero acquisition seeding for individual accounts within account pools) is what makes them tougher to max on ANY single players account

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For example i am $45k deep and haven’t had a single mithrasea drop yet and the draw patterns the whales now use to get one of these 12 heroes is increasing our success rate at getting 1 exclusive when chasing them versus blind whaling

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Most whales have maxed out the inspiration on almost all other legendary heroes except these 12 exclusive heroes.. a repeating pattern across the whale community

tulip socket
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oh. i didn't know there was any cooldown timer. Now I kind of wish their profile had an emblem or something to designate them as exclusive.

vapid robin
tulip socket
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ok. that's more in depth than i thought. i would have guessed the mercy was about the extent of it. maybe I'll keep my fingers crossed for my favorite exclusive then.

vapid robin
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Wait for a token exchange

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Most whales cant justify spending more atm until this is implemented

tulip socket
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i'm very conscious about my spending for personal reasons, so I'm not going to chase. but I get why the spenders are upset they just raised the inspiration instead of a token shop. I like the idea of a token shop / soul exchange even if I won't benefit from it as much as others.

vapid robin
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187 useless tokens - need a soul exchange - the 'inspire above 5 won't cut it because it doesn't solve the problem - the return on investment analysis is too risky without a soul exchange shop like the one proposed in this suggestion thread (getting back on topic)

Screenshot_20231111_192622_Dragonheir.jpg
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Typical pattern of whale's accounts shown by my own account below... numerous of the 12 exclusives are the ones missing insoirations (on top of 187 tokens plus a sold out artifact shop)... which helps understand the drop rate algorithm theory discussions above... showing why continuing to whale further is not worth the risk nor return on investment... hence raising inspiration limits or adding new heroes is not the solution to the problem despite being acceptable features for unrelated problems like handling long term powercreep... however, implementing a soul exchange shop solves the core issue of hero acquisition problems... which makes the other 2 mentioned features feel more like acceptable 'additions' which then result in a suitable return on investment for whales to continue whaling..

Using my personal situation as an example... even though I'm happy with my account... and love the game... when I undertake a neutral ROI analysis upon it... $45k spent and not at least 1 mithrasea dropping despite 'equal odds' ... but without a way to acquire her after this level of effort due to the lack of a soul imprint exchange shop... means it is not worth me whaling any further... because new heroes and inspire cap removal doesn't fix this core hero acquisition problem... because my account in the accout pool is poorly seeded to acquire this specific hero compared to other heroes which are more highly seeded for my account to get... This means the risk is too high for me to realistically invest more because I would offically be throwing thousands of dollars into chasing specific low seeded exclusives and likely get nothing back for it... failure after failure... without even an expensive safety net... but a soul exchange shop (even a very expensive one as proposed) does fix the issue and even makes these 2 other implemented ideas fine.. a suitable safety net for extreme cases like this

Screenshot_20231111_192917_Dragonheir.jpg Screenshot_20231111_192912_Dragonheir.jpg Screenshot_20231111_192906_Dragonheir.jpg Screenshot_20231111_192901_Dragonheir.jpg Screenshot_20231111_193032_Dragonheir.jpg Screenshot_20231111_193038_Dragonheir.jpg
tulip socket
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thanks for taking the time to explain all that. helps me (and maybe some others) understand the issue in more detail.

vapid robin
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Cheers!

karmic warren
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WHALES think the game have a problem XD, I dont want to be the guy telling you what to do or what not with your money, but the game its fine, if you feel the need to pull 2000 dices and not get the one exclusive lego you missed to enjoy or to put you above the rest in the game its YOUR problem. Start treating your addiction then we talk about the game.

karmic warren
vapid robin
karmic warren
vapid robin
# karmic warren dropping the value of a house into a game im sure isnt...

This thread proposes a solution from another player for handling low hero acquisition rates. That is the purpose of it … my situation ingame is personal of course.. but it examples why the feature proposed by @inner quiver is beneficial. No solution implemented for hero acquisition problems are why I personally do not think it is worth it for me personally to invest more until certain changes. What I spent prior, was reasonable for me personally and my situation, because I benefitted from maxing out non exclusive heroes, so i got the value I expected out of my spends to date. Hence I am happy with my account and will continue to enjoy the game with what I have.

However, at my current level of investment, to invest further with the current drop system is not worth it for me and numerous others at my level to invest further at this time.

Games are business. They make money from users of the game and rely on it to pay salaries and continue development. This game has fantastic potential. Whales and dolphins fund the majority of this in most games. Hence, for paying customers, talking about an ROI is valid, because people spend money on entertainment, as they do other things. In life, entertainment is one the most lucrative businesses. For example wealthy billionaires spend billions on sports teams. So it is all perspective mate. If you got it, and can afford it, I don’t think the developers think spending $45k on their product is stupid, nor does the majority of this and other communities. All these type of games are designed for it. As well, it is two way street… so when a threshold is crossed where it does not feel like investment into a game under the current version is reached, many spenders stop spending until changes.

Also putting thumbs down twice on the OPs thread is just immature and weakens your point and character.

panda_shrug

karmic warren
# vapid robin This thread proposes a solution from another player for handling low hero acquis...

Handling low Champ acquisition rates by making more accessible for people who spend to get them? that solves one problem and creates another. Wich by the way its not a topic of any urgency, the problem you guys are facing are faced for the top 1% of the player base, and its because your personal situation as I already stayed, the game its not made for spending and abusing it to the limit to get where you want, like others in the genre, nor to spend and expect a return FROM A GAME again, the return should be the joy of PLAYING, not by spending and it doesn't fail in that part. Instead of looking for more ways to spend you should really try others games that already have covered that part.

vapid robin
# karmic warren Handling low Champ acquisition rates by making more accessible for people who sp...

I grew up in an era when this was true mate so I get it.. but this is long gone for mobile gaming, the current norms really blew up from 2016 onwards. IF what you say is true, that this game isn’t made for spending, why make heroes hard to obtain for anybody! I am all for an equal server gamer experience where everybody has max heroes, utilising skill not money to compete.. but sadly that is not the market anymore.. at least PC gaming is still often more akin to past models and can sustain on subscriptions.

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Baldurs gate 3 is a banger btw (check it out on PC)

hybrid prairie
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I got to the adamantine golem in the darkforge and took a break bc i couldnt kill it lol

vapid robin
hybrid prairie
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Tried using the forge to do it but only the first hit did damage, rest just knocked him down

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Idk why

vapid robin
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Ok lets move that to dm mrow cos baldurs gate is off topic here haha

karmic warren
# vapid robin I grew up in an era when this was true mate so I get it.. but this is long gone ...

Because you take out of the equation the dolphins, wich create a breach between 1% and the 99% of the rest, there so you will have a sense of normality in between that 99%. There always be people that spent and get what they want, but the problem as a game its not to put a stop at it and by that let the rest of the players who dont, out of the competition, content and new content of the game.

karmic warren
vapid robin
karmic warren
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so its ok, have a good day

vapid robin
cobalt plinth
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Outside of only summoning for the day until you pull an exclusive, do you have further advice?

vapid robin
nova vortex
vapid robin
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U make big assumptions

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I guess u never seen the million dollar plus accounts in some games

karmic warren
# vapid robin I guess u never seen the million dollar plus accounts in some games

That others do it doesn't make it okay, disposable income its never a excuse to drop that kind of money into a game, ask your financial advisor, there are a million things to do with that kind of money than to drop it on game that would even be more healthy for you or your family and you would actually get a experience or something of real value out of it. People who are actually wealthy don't even have the time to play, if they do im 100% sure they enjoy it by playing not spending, its just too easy for them wich means the game needs content not ways to spend the money on it. On the other hand, lets say there are people that do it who are not addicted, BUT Expecting a return of investing after dropping the value of a house into a MOBILE GAME? im sorry its delusional and the people who think that its okay should seek professional help. And im saying it as a game, but the same could be very well said of other forms of entertainment, like bets, online Casinos, etc

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And sorry to jump in again, for me its just nuts, where I come from they would put me in jail or in a mental hospital

inner quiver
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Let's try and keep the focus on fixing the game for all the folks experiencing issues with the current system y'all 🙂 this isn't about how to best spend $$$

karmic warren
glass path
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This is p2w visualised

inner quiver
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you just proved my point

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the new system allowing for inspiration of 20 encourages further P2W

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its possible to beat a inspiration 5 legendary with skill alone, but not an inspiration 20.

karmic warren
karmic warren
inner quiver
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They had to fix it to continue getting revenue - do you undersand business? Whales were going to stop spending $$$ which means F2P won't have a game to play. No reason to spend $$$ if you only get duplicates. So a solution for duplicates was necessary to ensure spending continues. However, the solution that was implemented has grossly worsened the issue

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The point is that a solution that is reasonable needs to be implemented to ensure a) spending continues so the devs have jobs and revenue is high so the game is supported and b) players have the opportunity to fairly compete

glass path
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@inner quiver Does not understand bussiness

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Try team fights arena; it is ftp, not ptw and there is no need for grind unless you like fashion war

karmic warren
inner quiver
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dude. If they don't make $$$ they can't pay devs to make new content.

glass path
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Does riot make money off from team fight tacticts ?

inner quiver
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Good job finding one example of a game with a completely different monetization model than this one.

karmic warren
inner quiver
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You actually are benefitting from spenders

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if you understood gacha monetization you would understand that fundamentally.

karmic warren
inner quiver
glass path
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skinner box

plucky edge
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Look there are suggestions to improve content if someone wants to make a suggestion that improves their experience you shouldn't barge in here try to convince otherwise. It's bad taste. People who play the game whether f2p or spender have equal rights to suggestion. No need to bring your morals into this. It's subjective.

inner quiver
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Amen^^^

glass path
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You must be working for that guy

plucky edge
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This solution nor the problem applies to u

glass path
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Bullets hurt

karmic warren
plucky edge
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Yeah cause 99% of the player base are able to compete with the 1% now. Like I said not your problem not your solution lol

karmic warren
plucky edge
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Yeah but u r bringing more than opinion.

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Locked up in jail mental hospital etc

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That's no way to express opinions honestly

karmic warren
plucky edge
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Alright we both understand each other. So let's drop it.

inner quiver
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Amen once again

plucky edge
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Regardless of the solution or the problem. I am heavily against increasing gaps between spending levels. In my videos and pleas to the company I have regularly asked them to remove certain things that imo are unbalanced. Such as skill haste ult time reduction elemental bonus for inspiration. Many whales Dont play to stomp but to compete.

inner quiver
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^^^This. Simply seeking a solution that helps the community across the board from F2P to dolphin, to whale, to kraken. All while also enabling the development team to maximize revenue and ensure that quality content is funded for the future so the game remains healthy and intact in the long run

vapid robin
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I cant comment cos im in a mental jail institution and my assigned worker tells me i cant type cos im too stupid

karmic warren
inner quiver
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That's exactly what is being suggested with a soul exchange shop. It allows you the ability to flexibly exchange unwanted legendaries for the ones that help you progress if you don't get fortunate with luck in your pulls

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It may help ya out - goal is balance + revenue maintenance so that the full community is benefitted

karmic warren
plucky edge
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I Dont think u represent the 99% nor is that the consensus from what I gathered with f2p in my guild and in the community. It's your opinion as part of that 99% which I respect, to be clear. I think I didn't fully understand your last message clearly. Right now what the company did vs what was proposed was to implement a healthy balance. I Dont think a soul exchange option disturbs the balance in any way. If you need 20 souls for a champion then you need be to in the top 1-5% to get advantage of it. Also, with the current state, the gap between 1% and 30% is actually larger. F2p people who had been playing the game since beta have been successful against me. Sigrid ergander etc. But this was before now it's a stampede. The solution proposed here was before the update because this allows players to compete with each other disregarding the rng of pulls. But honestly like I said. Your opinion our opinion has all been there. You are not going to agree and we are not going to budge.

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So it's best to part ways here.

karmic warren
karmic warren
karmic warren
plucky edge
# karmic warren who said im f2p? if you are going that route

your entire argument is invalid because of that lol I think you are here just to argue with no fundamental reason. Like I said we all deserve a right to suggestions its up to the company that picks it or not. If you have too much time on your hand, then please help me fill the guidebook with NPC you can challenge. If you feel strongly against this make a new suggestion and then go right ahead. But this entire argument of yours is invalid. All you are doing is hand picking stuff without any attempt to reach a consensus or understanding so I am not going to bother explaining. I laid my stuff on the table you are welcome to read it again.

karmic warren
karmic warren
# plucky edge your entire argument is invalid because of that lol I think you are here just to...

Anyway this comment saying that "my argument its invalid cuz im not f2p" its like saying "you cant speak about the holocaust because you are not Jew". Im not hand picking stuff, im trying to answer everything I can, i dont have all the answers. What im not sure its why you seems so bothered by my opinion. IF you really think its invalid just dont answer, but all the suggestions have a comment section to "gess what?" to comment about it. I already reach consensus and understanding, we live in different realities thats the truth. Peace

vapid robin
karmic warren
hybrid prairie
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Not when it is disposable

karmic warren
# hybrid prairie Not when it is disposable

"disposable income its never a excuse to drop that kind of money into a game, ask your financial advisor, there are a million things to do with that kind of money than to drop it on game that would even be more healthy for you or your family and you would actually get a experience or something of real value out of it. People who are actually wealthy don't even have the time to play, if they do im 100% sure they enjoy it by playing not spending, its just too easy for them! wich means the game needs content... not ways to spend the money on it. On the other hand, lets say there are people that do it who are not addicted, BUT Expecting a return of investing after dropping the value of a house into a MOBILE GAME? im sorry its delusional".

hybrid prairie
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You are whiney

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Good day sir

vapid robin
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Tbh when i go in the wine shop where my uncle has a house in Southern Loire Valley in france - some bottles go for over $10k - 4 of them is my dragonheir account already

inner quiver
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lolol @hybrid prairie love it

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whiney indeed

vapid robin
nova vortex
# hybrid prairie Not when it is disposable

Its pretty late for you already and to be honest it makes me feel bad about many at the end of the day you're just victims to someone else's plan to suck your bank account. at any rate money becomes "disposable" to an addict

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does not equal affordable tough

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and you guys love to use "disposable" a lot more than affordable

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I could dispose of the 75k in my bank account if I wanted to

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its not affordable tough

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And a mobile game would be the last place in my mind to spend even if I had that money

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45k into a mobile game and the homeless guy next street is dying of starvation and probably cold what a sad state of world

agile lance
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guys, plz focus on the topic at hand, noone is interested in your life stories, or why or why u dont think its good to spend money here. that is not the topic at hand. so plz for the sake of god stick to it, and figth your battles somewhere else

plain burrow
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Just release exclusive skins and ultimate visual effects. That will bring in revenue without destroying the balance of the game. (and make the game look more impressive)

knotty garden
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GG devs... GG

50Fkyou.png
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i just post since he is missing few inspired heroes soo plz Devs fix this problem!!

hybrid prairie
knotty garden
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lol he attacke me xD

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its a live arena ...you are match auto

knotty garden
karmic warren
vapid robin
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Game acct until end of service

karmic warren
vapid robin
karmic warren
vapid robin
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Yes i have heard of it

karmic warren
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but your uncle have one...

vapid robin
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Yes he does

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So i get what ur sayin

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But that ain’t my style

karmic warren
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then those bottles are not for drinking or if so not at once

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you know it

vapid robin
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I know i can drink it if i want to n they usually super vinegary cos they aren’t 4 drinkin kekl

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I don’t see paying for something as a flex cos its not a skill - i didn’t make it, I’m only stronger in games cos i swiped - to me its just all entertainment

cobalt plinth
# knotty garden GG devs... GG

This comment would be more or less about the poor match making system in that game mode and less about his levels of inspiration. You should be paired against players in your bracket, obviously.

Whether the group here attacking the idea of a token exchange shop believes it or not: it's none of your business how others spend their money and to be clear I don't think a single valid argument against the token shop has been made, just specifically about the people it would effect the most and how they spend their money. My grocery money might be your spending money. Your house payment might be someone's else spending money. You don't get to dictate nor make suggestions here on how people that aren't yourself spend their money and honestly it comes off as petty and jealous. If thats the life you want to live, that's fine, but don't disrupt suggestion threads with it.

The argument against "ROI" on a gacha game is also irrelevant here. His example of ROI can be used in any instance throughout life and taking it literal in order to pick him apart and attack him personally for his choice of spending is again, petty. Examples of ROI on anything in life: Time invested at a job, purchasing fast food, going to a movie. Everything has an ROI, whether you want to believe it or not.

The exchange shop, beyond fixing issues right now, would likely help down the road for all players. If I end up with 3 extra exclusive souls and am wanting to target another exclusive instead of inspire one I already have, I would make that trade in a heart beat. (3 extra exclusive souls is an arbitrary number in this example.) One inspiration on three separate characters vs one game breaking character for a team comp isn't a comparison and is a trade I'd make any day as a mostly f2p player and one I imagine most people would.

What will never help the community as a whole is 20 inspiration. That caters specifically to Krakens, and a solid majority don't even want it.

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I did not catch in the OP that it would require your current exclusives with extra souls to be maxed inspired already. The suggested change no longer effects me in any way. Unfortunate, but the rest of what I said still remains accurate.

karmic warren
# cobalt plinth This comment would be more or less about the poor match making system in that ga...

No one is attacking the idea or anyone, as Arselan said, everyone have the right to give suggetions, this is just a comment section. First of all sorry if you feel so, people here are talking about real life experience, Gambling, and specially in a gatcha/collectors game its one of the worst modern addiction, for all the reason said here, this is not our complain, it have been point out by psychologists all around the world, and what make it worst the kids and new generations of gamer will and are taking the big hit. No one its suggesting how they have to handle their money in any way, you can burn it if you want, no one cares, the problem its where ever it affects others, in this case as you successfully point out in your last message the solution and the problem are exclusive for the very top 1% of the player base, and its a solution that will affect the 99% rest as there will be no cohesion between the low-medium spenders and f2p, SO, at first glance its not a topic of any urgency, second, it imply a new way to spend money, i get some of you pay for entertainment, but some people( the large mayority, dont, atleast not at the point its discussed here) to make it easy for them to get literally everything they want, on the other hand what come after you have all inspiration levels in all champions and all artifacts? there are whales who will get to this point and will ask to put more things in the shop and you and we both know it. I also find relevant to say that the term "ROI" was said as a justification to spend in the game in the first few msg.

vapid robin
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10 years from now theres a good chance whaling and gacha will look completely different to the current 2016-PRESENT era