Obvious programming error

[tender herald]

I'm giving you guys the benefit of the doubt in pointing out what can't possibly be intentional. Your dice "rolling" mechanic doesn't work...even a little. As you know, pretending to use dice roll to determine random results in your game when you don't adhere to actual dice probability would be an egregious bit of graft...actually illegal in most countries where the game is played if perpetrated in a brick and mortar establishment.
I'm sure you guys don't mean to be cheating your players...so please get around to fixing this as soon as possible...if my stupid horn can't manage to roll anything in the double digits (despite that being HALF the probability YOU are advertising) I'm gonna lose my mind.

[faint summit]

Dear traveler, we are very sorry that we did not bring you a good gaming experience. But the card drawing is indeed random, and I will pray that you get your favorite hero as soon as possible. Can I ask if you have any good advice on this? Please feel free to tell us your valuable suggestions, and then we will feedback them to the team to consider your suggestions, and we will also work hard to optimize the game.

[tender herald]

Sorry...you miss the point. I know it's random...but you are lieing about the odds.

I'm at over a hundred total horn rolls so far and have never "rolled" a 16 or higher. That isn't just unlikely ...it's impossible on an actual 20 sided die. In fact I've never even seen a 20 show up on the other sides as the die "rolls".

I know you want to make the best heros rare ...but lieing isn't the way to do it ...if you tell me I have a 5% chance of a legendary every time I use the horn....I better actually have a 5% chance.

[ivory crest]

same, i just see higher than 10 4 or 5 times totaly, i'm not missing any horn summons and i never see 15 or higher yet... i started playing first day of global launch, 2 summons each day (1 summon = 12 hours)

and i reroll 10 hours to see 20 for a first time on pre gift web site event, 10 NON STOP HOURS (2 or 3 min was enough for each reroll)

[tender herald]

Yes...don't pretend dice are involved when they obviously aren't...really lame gimmick

[faint summit]

We are really sorry that we could not give you a perfect experience. We understand your feelings very much, and I will record your feedback as suggestions and forward them to our development team. (Increase the probability of alien horn throwing points) They will try their best to provide you with a better game experience.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.
We hope you continue to enjoy our game and have a nice day!

[regal hare]

Ofc they are controlling the odds dah
Then everyone will open 100 accounts and use horns for free leegos to sell the aacount?

They just did the dice rolling effect to give you the feel of a real dice

But its not same odds from logical reasons

The chance of pulling “20”
Is not 5% its 0.1% on a good day

[glass epoch]

Next thing they’ll be complaining that because there’s only blue, purple and orange results in heliolite summons, there should be a 33% chance of getting orange/legendary summons 🤦‍♂️

[glass epoch]

Where does it say 5%? Or did you just interpret that yourself?

[tender herald]

noooo...althouhg i understand how this can be confusing if english isn't your first language...

I have no problem with odds lower than 5%...I have a problem with the devs specifically TELLING us the odds are 5% then not living up to those odds.

if you incorporate a d20 roll into your mechanics, you are explicitly telling people there is an equal chance of outcome for each of those 20 sides...period. If you want the dice rolling aesthetic, accept the dice rolling probabilities...or you are swindling your customers.

this would never be accepted in a brick and mortar location...but with the anything goes legal atmosphere of the internet, companies feel they can get away with blatantly illegal behavior...and worse have their customers defend being swindled.

[tender herald]

and no...my complaint isn't with the probabilities of the horn...as has been clearly explained.

[tender herald]

its implicit in the d20 mechanic...there are twenty sides, hence a 5% chance of rolling each of those potential sides.

[lost mauve]

I agree completely, I have no problem with something like <=1% Legendary for the free horn, but it’s not a unweighted d20 roll. I have no problem with the Helio dice because they don’t attempt to map anything to a d20 and explicitly give the percentages (could probably map to d100 or something). You can see the differences in how the chances are displayed, Helio is very clear what the chances for each are

[whole fable]

I agree with the rant, although I do believe it's intentional. This should be a d100 to be more honest with players about odds

[exotic plume]

D100 i agreed, its not 1:20 anymore it feels like 1:100

My opinion is instead max 4 why not increase to 8 or 10 with that probabilities it would be beneficial, 2nd option reduce time CD, but i dont think that is fair

[fast oxide]

If something is given absolutely free you cannot sue them die to consumer rights.
If something free is given as bonus to other purchase, then you can sue due to consumer rights.
(In Europe at least)

I do suspect that Helio dice is not totally legit, due to many players complaining in chat they received their 2nd or 3rd legendary as duplicate. I gained my 2nd errich after unlocking it for free and I was not the only one. If my hypothesis is right, this is against consumer rights and Europeans have right demand their money back and whoever made allowed to put this system into the game is going to be fined.

[restive cave]

Plop ! Le jeu plante lors du chargement des combats des quêtes. Obliger de ALt F4 et impossible d'avancer du coup. Une idée pour résoudre ça ?
Merci

[faint summit]

Hello Traveller, thank you for taking the time to get in touch with us and for sharing your concerns.
Please wait for a while I will check your question.

[faint summit]

Hello Traveler, regarding the crash issue,
We hope the methods below can help you solve the problem.

1. Clear your device cache.
2. Stop running of other applications while playing the game.
3. Change the network connection.
4. Reconnect after the game is over.
5. Set the game quality as lowest.
   If the problem is still not solved with the above methods, please provide us with the below details:

• Operation video (if available)]:
• [game log]:
  (How to get the logs on Pc: Find the directory where the game is installed in the system files, click on it and there will be a logs folder)
• [Game installation full path]:
  (e.g.: Windows(C)/User/Admin/download)
  All files under the path above need to be packaged and sent to us.
  After collecting the information you provided, I will immediately report the issue to the relevant team for you to confirm, thank you.

[restive cave]

sur la quête "pas d'honneur pour les bandit" par exemple , idem "vaincre Shoof".

[Game installation full path]: G:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Dragonheir Silent Gods

And the debug file from the root.

[faint summit]

Dear @restive cave, thanks for your cooperation, the information you provided has been submitted to the related team by us, we believe that it will advance the progress of checking issues. If any progress, we will contact you at once.

[restive cave]

ID: 2127817385710786560

[sharp pivot]

you can fix that by how many times you rolled the G..dam Thing...after 45 days playing and still not getting a EPIC / a f.....g Epic is a scam. Or just pure buulls...t. or just a bad game.

[drifting hinge]

Change the dice to a 200 sided dice, because the odds are probably like 0.5% for a legendary. By having a 20 sided dice, people (rightly) expect the legendary odds to be 5%, that is 1 out of 20.

[faint summit]

Dear Traveler,
Thank you for your patience, I understand your concerns.
We would like to let you know that our team is still investigating this issue. Please be patient.
We'll get back to you as soon as possible.
Thank you for your support and understanding.

[restive cave]

👍

[faint summit]

Dear Traveler,
Thank you for your patience, Could you please send us a video recording of where the game usually crashes so we can better understand the issue.

[restive cave]

First

second

[faint summit]

Thank you so much for sending the videos, according to these videos the issue appears frequently, It would be highly appreciated if you provide us with the game log under the path:
C:\Users\Admin\AppData\LocalLow\sgra\Dragonheir Silent Gods , where Admin needs to be changed to your Windows username
Thanks for your support and understanding.

[faint summit]

Thank you so much for your efforts, kindly note that we've passed the issue to the our technical team and will get back to you as soon as possible.
Thank you for your support and understanding!

[restive cave]

👍

[faint summit]

Dear @restive cave,
Thank you for your patience, we really appreciate it.
We recommend you to click settings - battle - battle skill animation, and select as never, then check again.
If the issue still exists, please contact us again.

Thank you for your support and understanding!

[restive cave]

Not working. 😦

[faint summit]

Understood , Kindly be noted that we will be repoting the issue right away and gett back to you again.

[faint summit]

After our technical staff checked the information. We hope that you can provide us with the log as soon as this situation occurs. Our technicians need the log at the time when the problem occurred, and we hope that you can explain the time when the problem occurred(situation). So that we can find his problem faster and more accurately.

[restive cave]

i gave you all the informations you requestes. Look the prévious messages plz ...

[faint summit]

Dear Traveler, thank you for your reply.
we really regret if we have caused you a bad service experience. please don't worry we're checking with our team and we'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Thank you for your kind patience and understanding!

[faint summit]

Dear Traveler,thank you for reaching out to us.We've reviewed the logs you shared, but it appears they aren't from a game crash. To troubleshoot, try turning off combat cutins and check again. Let us know how it goes!

[faint summit]

@restive cave
Dear Traveler,
Please accept our sincere apologies for the troubles and discontent you have encountered. We are grateful for your support and passion for the game. We have already received all the information you have previously shared with us.
Unfortunately, our team's investigation shows that the issue you are experiencing is related to a scene loading issue. The logs we have received earlier did not entirely identify the underlying reason for the issue. It would be greatly appreciated if you could provide us with the crash logs if the game crashes again.

Thank you for your kind patience and understanding!

[hybrid ivy]

I will get in on this too. I have done my 2 horn summons every day since the start of the season (19days left for me) and I can say that the dice are not rolling “randomly”. I think I will actually start recording my rolls next season to prove to you that this is the case.

Mathematically, on a d20, you have a 1 in 20 chance to roll any given number. While it is possible to roll the same number every single time, the odds of that happening are so low as to be inconsequential. Statistically, what you should see over time is an even spread. My personal expectation is that I would roll 1-10 50% of the time and 11-20 50% of the time.

My actual experience - 1-10 is in the 80-95% of the rolls (I do not have proper numbers but I will start recording next season). I have seen no less than 6 rolls that have hit the number 1. I have seen a 19 once. I have seen 20 a total of Zero times. At this point in the season this should be nearly impossible. The fact that my experience seems to be common suggests there is something wrong in your programming. If this result is not your intention then it needs to be fixed. If this result is due to the way the die is programmed, then you need to publish the actually odds because, as has been said, manipulating the odds without saying what they are is illegal in some countries.

[faint summit]

Dear Traveler,
Thank you for your support and passion for the game. We deeply understand your concerns about the summoning probabilities for heroes. We want to assure you that the hero summoning probabilities in the game are the same for all players and are generated by a random number generator (RNG). This means that every player has an equal chance of summoning heroes of different qualities.

Our goal is to provide a fair and enjoyable gaming experience for players, and the summoning system is an integral part of that. Although you may not have summoned your desired hero yet, please do not lose hope. Believe that your luck will change at the right time, and we sincerely wish for your success.

[hybrid ivy]

I don’t think you are understanding the issue…. So many people are saying the same thing and you keep responding the same way.

I am not comparing my summoning rates with any other players. I am not even comparing summoning rates. I am saying (same as others are saying) that on a d20 die, the odds of getting any individual number, whether that number is a 1 or a 20 is 1 in 20. Every single number has the same odds. The issue is that everyone is seeing a predominance of rolls under 10 and not many rolls over 10. Since the chance of getting a roll under 10 is the same as getting a roll over 10, the more rolls you do, the more you should see it start evening out. The problem is that it isn’t. It appears to be weighted towards the lower numbers. That isn’t rng. It very much appears that there is a bias built into the system.

Since you don’t seem to understand this, I will be working on gathering the actual numbers that I roll next season. It really doesn’t matter to me if I have the same rates as everyone else because those rates do not fit a d20 die. So, what you have admitted, in saying that everyone has an equal chance, is that everyone’s dice are loaded to roll low. That is fine… but you need to publish that fact and not try to pass off that the odds of rolling a 20 are the same as rolling a 1 because it is very obvious to all of us that isn’t the case.

[fast condor]

Why in the world would the horn not be weighted nearly identical to heliodice at the most? Its a visual skin, the same thing happens every time you roll helio w/o the numbers attached to the dice.

Rate % should be posted, but assuming is a real 1/20 is hilarious

[faint summit]

Dear Travelers,
Please rest assured that we always value players' feedback. I have already sent your feedback and ideas to the R&D team, and we will continue to collect Travelers' opinions and optimize and improve the relevant gameplay, as soon as there's a response we will get back to you 🫡 .

[faint summit]

Dear traveler,

Thank you for reaching out to us, and we understand your concerns regarding the probability rules of the horns in the game. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. We want to assure you that the probability rules for the horns are indeed based on a completely random number generator (RNG) system.

We understand that you may be troubled by the results of your draws, but please trust that our team is continually working to improve the gaming experience, ensuring that players have a satisfying and enjoyable time in the game. We appreciate your dedication and support, and we sincerely thank you for being a part of our gaming community.

If you have any further concerns or suggestions, we are more than willing to listen and provide assistance. Please feel free to contact our customer service team at any time, and we will do our best to ensure that your gaming experience is enjoyable.

Once again, thank you for reaching out and for your support of our game. Wishing you more pleasant moments in the game!

Best regards,

[hybrid ivy]

I understand that you believe the system to be a "completely random number generator (RNG) system" however, myself and others find this very hard to believe when we see the results.

I realize this is a relatively small sample size and so could be passed off as statistically irrelavent, however, it is a taste of what we have seen all season. I intend on recording my whole entire next season and submitting it.

I have recorded every horn roll since I posted in this thread. I have 21 rolls recorded and my brother has 18. It is incredible the number of low rolls. No rolls over 13. The average for the 2 of us is only 7.74. I anticipated ~10 since there is a 1 in 20 chance of rolling any given number. I also assumed there would be potentially a +-1 variance. Our rolls are well under that.

In order to do a comparison, I went to google's RNG system and rolled 20 times. I then hit refresh and repeated the 20 rolls. I repeated the process for a 3rd time. The google RNG system gave what was expected. 20's were rolled 3 times in 60 rolls. 15+ was rolled 13 times in 60 rolls. Each set of 20 had 5-6 rolls at 15+ which is also to be expected since 15-20 is 1/4 of the die and 5 rolls is 1/4 of the 20 rolls. The overall average is 10.05 which is exactly what was expected.

I grabbed 3 real d20's (i have heard that electronic RNG is not a true random system) and did the 3 sets of 20 rolls; each with a different die. The average 11.13. It is a little higher than the electronic but still within what was to be expected.

With these results for just 60 rolls, I find it impossible that my brother and I have been rolling twice a day for ~75 days for this season and we have rolled a total of ZERO 20's. We have each rolled less than 5 rolls over 15. That is 150 rolls (more than twice the sample size). Our experience seems extremely improbable in a completely random system.

We don't actually care if the system is rigged but you do need to publish the actual chances.

[faint summit]

@hybrid ivy Dear Traveler,

We understand your concerns about whether our system operates as a "True Random Number Generator (RNG)" and the confusion you and other players may have experienced with the outcomes. We highly value your feedback and have verified the matter with our technical team.

Please be assured that our system has been meticulously designed to ensure a fair and enjoyable gaming experience for all players. Due to their high quality, legendary heroes naturally have a lower probability of being drawn, which is essential to maintain the balance of the game. However, you still have a chance to draw legendary quality heroes.

We recognize that even in a completely random system, there can be short-term deviations from the long-term statistical probabilities. This is the nature of randomness, which can sometimes lead to unusual sequences of results. Nevertheless, we are confident that our system is fair in the long run.

The data and comparisons you have provided, although based on a small sample size, are incredibly valuable to us. We will continue to monitor the performance of the system to ensure it operates fairly and correctly as intended. At the same time, we are constantly optimizing our summoning system to provide an even more enjoyable gaming experience.

We are very grateful for your meticulous records and feedback, which are crucial for us to improve the game. Thank you once again for your valuable input, and we look forward to you having better luck and experiences in the upcoming season. Wishing you a delightful gaming journey!

[vast cairn]

It's true. Horn summon system ruin people expectations from game.
Just in case I summon with horn 2 times a day from start of the server. ~150 summons. 0 times higher then 15.
Have all epic heroes, 40k extra artifact crystals and 15-19 roll give me only 300 crystals.
It's fine to give players 1-2 legendary for season with the horn. It's nothing for balance for 3 month! But most of players no have just 1 epic for season. This system not really motivate players buy more heliolite dices for summon legendary, it's motivate them to stop play faster.

My suggestion give normal rolls with 5% for each point. Make it fair. Same point rewards, but 18-19 or only 19 give epic (15-19 give epic summons too often), and 20 give something like a ticket. Players can summon with this ticket for legendary. For example with 20% chance. It's make summon legendary with 1% chance and developers will keep D20 roll system. We will keep balance with legendaries, and players will enjoy to horn summoning system.

[hybrid ivy]

I wasn't looking at what was dropped... I was simply looking at rolls. 0 20's in 3 months is highly suspect. I will record all next season and get you a larger sample size. I am well aware that small sample sizes aren't conclusive indicators but it is interesting that the google RNG system (which has no reason to weight the rolls to any specific number) had 3 rolls of 20 in 60. The real d20's had one roll of 20 in each set. As the title of this thread says, there seems to be a programming error because the rolls seem weighted low for a true RNG system.

But I will get more data for you next season.

[faint summit]

Dear Travler,

we understand how you may feel. Your suggestions mean a lot to us, and we've forwarded the suggestions to the relevant team. Meanwhile, we'd like to highlight that changes in the game must be reviewed before developing and presented to Travelers, which will take some time. Please be patient with us. Thank you very much for your love for our game, and we will do our best to provide you with a better gaming experience.

[vast cairn]

Thanks for your work^)

[vast cairn]

Okay, i think i understand how to make honest horn summon system and stay with D20 roll dice. Can you send this to developers please:

• All point of D20 have 5% chance
• 15-19 give x1 epic dice piece. Collect x5 epic dice pieces for summon random epic with 100% chance.
• 20 give x1 legendary dice piece. Collect x5 legendary dice pieces for summon random legendary with 100% chance.

Honest rolls return respect to horn system, and give hope for summon legendary. And in same time keep summoning balance in game.

[hybrid ivy]

@vast cairn what you are proposing is actually worse than the current published system.

Currently the horn is supposed to guarantee an epic if you roll 15-19 and guarantee a legendary if you roll 20. Now, Lydia insists that the system is supposed to be true RNG (in other words, there already is a 5% chance for any individual number to roll). I will choose to believe that is their intent. The problem is that the reality doesn't seem to fit their intent. 15-20 seem to be rolling a lot less than the 30% chance (15-20 is 6 numbers. 5x6=30%) those numbers have to appear and 1-10 seem to be rolling alot more often than the 50% chance (1-10 is 10 numbers. 5x10=5%) those have to roll with a true RNG system.

[vast cairn]

What you asking for is impossible.
Developers never make 5% for 15-19 to summon 100% epic and 5% for 20 for summon 100% legendary, because this fully broke actual balance in game. Everybody will summon epic every 1-2 days and legendary every 5 days for free^)

[hybrid ivy]

I'm not actually asking for a true 5% chance for any individual number to roll... what I want is for them to publish the true odds. Publishing the true odds will change how we view the horn and temper our expectations. Not only that, if it is not a true 5% chance for any given number and they do not publish the true odds, then what they are doing is illegal in some countries. I don't want them to accidentally get fined or banned because of an oversight or a glitch in their system. I like this game. I think the devs are doing good work and truly care to give us a good product.

if they insist that their intent is to have a true RNG system then that means they intend for any given number to roll 5% of the time over a large sample size.

As to your numbers being an epic every 1-2 days and legendary every 5 days, I think you are off by a bit. 1-2 days = 2-4 rolls and 5 days = 10 rolls (you get 2 rolls per day). You will not be getting an epic in 2-4 rolls and unlikely to get a legendary in 10. I would expect it to be more like an epic every 7 days and a legendary every 10. Incidentally, that means in just under 2 months into the season (50 days) it should not be a surprise to get 5 legendaries from horn summons (100 summons x 5% = 5 rolls of 20).

I am basing this off how they say they have designed their system.

[vast cairn]

U really bad in math, bro. 15-19 it's 5 numbers from 20 - it's 25% of rolls epic. For 2 days 4 tries with 25%.
You wanna know chances? Approximately 1% for 15-19 and 0,1% for 20. This knowledge makes you more happier?

Because of DnD architecture developers use beauty candy wrapper with D20 rolls, but make different chance for roll numbers, because if they make 5% for every points, would be too easy for summon epic/legendary and people will buy MUCH less helidice. I explain system with epic pieces summon. In this system people will summon every ~10 days epic hero and every ~50 days legendary hero. Keep 5% chance for all points. Problem will be solved, all happy ^)

[hybrid ivy]

sure whatever makes you happy... turn to insults by saying I am bad at math.

BTW, it is a 75% chance on each of those rolls that you would not get 15-19... so it will take more than 4 rolls. What you did was say that 1 in 4 chance x 4 = 1: therefore you will get an epic in 4 rolls. %'s don't work that way. It is 25% chance per roll and the chance resets each roll so in reality it is 25% chance no matter what. To have a chance at guaranteeing 15-19 is rolled you would have to roll 15 times. Why? because the first 14 rolls could have been 1-14. But, even 15 rolls would not guarantee it since you would still only have a 25% chance of doing 15-19. All you are doing after 15 rolls is increasing the overall likelihood.

I am not arguing that what you say is not a more realistic way for them to have programmed it. What you don't seem to understand is that they insist that their system is a true RNG system. For it to be a true RNG system, they would have needed to program it to be a 5% chance for any individual number to roll. With that system, you should be seeing something close to 45 epics and 9 legendaries in a season.

I agree, that is unlikely to be the system they programmed and therefore they need to actually publish what the rates truly are and not leave us believing that it is a true RNG system.

[vast cairn]

1. You mean random. Sure. Or you can summon 15/15 epics. 25% it's approximately chance.
2. 9 legendaries for free? Cool^) I spend 2k$ for 25 legendaries in 3 month.

I'm done here, no see any reason to argue with you. I hope devs will read my vision of this system. Good luck^)

[lost mauve]

1. While there is chance that you could get 15 or 0 epics from a truly random dice, you can calculate where you are expected distribution and how likely it is (for example, if you flip a coin and it comes up heads 99 times and tails only 1 time, it might be suspect to you). For example, let’s say you roll 40 times on a d20 and get nothing 15+, it’s possible that you are in the bottom 0.00007% of all dice rollers, or that the dice themselves are weighted. These are called confidence tests and are widely used in statistics