Masteries & Mastery Obtainments

[tawdry grail]

What do you think of the way masteries are made and how you get them?

Masteries come in multiple forms. Generally they are a sidegrade. A sidegrade is basically the same concept done differently, usually more powerful. Other masteries are a direct upgrade that is simply the ability, but better. Usually they will have some variance in moves, but usually the same.

For example, Portal Mastery is an example of a sidegrade. It has the same portal feel and moveset, but is done completely different to the unmastered version.
Bomb Mastery is an example of a direct upgrade. Its moves are almost the same as the unmastered version's moveset, but it is a lot more powerful.

Mastery obtainments come in two forms, quests and "Do X Y Times". Quests are, well, quests. You receive some form of quest or event that you have to proceed through to get the mastery. "Do X Y Times" obtainments are where you do an action a set number of times, like Kill 500 Players with E Move.

For example, Defender Mastery is an example of a quest. You visit the astral dimension to defeat a powerful boss with your friends, and you have to do this ONCE to unlock the mastery.
Cosmos Mastery is an example of "Do X Y Times". You kill players 500 times to unlock the mastery, no additional quest or requirement, just kill 500 people.

So, what do you think of the way masteries are developed and how their obainments are made?

👍

[deep laurel]

👍

[tawdry grail]

made 7 polls since i kept fucking up the poll end time

figured this would be a good one too

[deep laurel]

😄

[tawdry grail]

😃

[hardy delta]

I feel like most masteries are fine but some are just impossible or not worth it

Portal mastery isn't doable on mobile and bomb is so time consuming

I managed to get bone mastery in 2 hours but bomb and cake have to be spread out across days which makes some masteries become overlooked

Such as cake mastery

As for the obtainment methods I do t rlly have any complaints tbh

Some just need to be a bit easier and others a bit harder

[tawdry grail]

"i am impartial" votes matter too btw

dont just skip over if u dont have an opinion

[full latch]

Most are pretty good, though some aren't worth their requirement anymore like magnet
Magnet mastery just doesn't feel worth the grind anymore

I also like that some masteries are direct upgrades while others are sidegrades, though I'd say for stronger base abilities any masteries should be sidegrades, while weaker base abilities should have direct upgrades for masteries

In some cases it does make people spam more annoying abilities and complain when people kill them that "I'm just grinding for the mastery stop" (gravity, mostly). These ones can be fixed just by reworking the requirement for these ones specifically

Other than that, masteries give people a reason to use abilities they normally wouldn't, at least for a while, and they can breathe life into otherwise bad/old abilities

[harsh spear]

I do not like the way masteries are currently implemented
I think it would be a lot cooler if we got sidegrades instead of masteries
being a different way to use the same ability concept

[frail terrace]

Tbh I don't understand why people think "do x y times" obtainments are bad. Sure it's repetitive, but that's how mastering something works. Do you get good at math by doing things besides practicing concepts over and over? The answer is NO.

Mastering something is tedious and repetitive, but worth it in the end.

[grand dock]

I enjoy direct upgrades, but I think sidegrade masteries are more entertaining and we need more of them. Unique quests like Defender are great, and I'd love to see more direct upgrades and sidegrades like Snow for a example that be cool to see.

[frail terrace]

Technically engineer Mastery is just a direct upgrade to engineer, but I don't think anyone actually dislikes that

[mystic moth]

some abilities having their masteries be direct upgrades is good

such as the aforementioned engineer

[mystic moth]

oh cool the polls got pinned

[prisma wing]

I feel like the mastery obtainment have been really lazy lately and I would love to have more boss fights or intricate quests

[thorn vessel]

Army mastery is a bad streak ability with little reward for going to higher stages

Some changes army mastery could use

Coins will automatically get given to you if it in the void

Going to a stage gives you a weapon related to it

Stage 4 and 5 better ai

Grenadier bombs explode on impact doing slightly more kb

Some melee minions will have that one alien ai to cut off players

[honest grotto]

I'm not going to get into the can of worms that defender mas balancing is as I've already done it 100 times, so instead I will talk about magnet mastery obtainment

The problem with the obtainment is that you have to either get a 1/10000 probability event 100 times (tedious) or just alt farm (also tedious)

Also another thing
Bone mastery just feels more like railgun mastery than bone mastery

R could use a nerf

Gravity mastery was a mistake

Also army mas stages 4 and 5 are worse than 1 and 2

[jaunty pond]

Wasnt it made to just get more players in the game?

[honest grotto]

It has nothing to do with gravity

[jaunty pond]

True

[honest grotto]

"Oh but gojo" shut up

What's another mastery that's really bad?

For the game's balance?

Right ufo mastery

[jaunty pond]

Cake is mid for its obtainment

[jaunty pond]

Ufo mastery is overrated imo

[honest grotto]

Eh it'd decent

[honest grotto]

Tell me

What abilities can KILL ufo mas

[jaunty pond]

Brickbattler cheese alch and prolly some more

[honest grotto]

Brickbattler can try to stand a chance ig
Cheese gets incinerated because lockdown
Would you really want to go through dos levels of prep time just to kill someone that will be back in 5 seconds with no drawbacks?

[jaunty pond]

I meannn ufo is pretty boring to use (even after the rework) and i doubt ppl would use it again after they died alot of times

[honest grotto]

They ain't dying in their ufo

[jaunty pond]

Killing them is pretty easy unless they dont lock themselves up in that experiment lab thingy

[honest grotto]

Invading the ufo?

Wrong, lockdown

Try again

[jaunty pond]

Uhhhhhhhhhh what abt using propeller with gp? (Idk if that reaches it)

[honest grotto]

One, if they see you do that, they can move away

Second, that only works for one life

[jaunty pond]

Uhhhh uhhhhh what about using an ufo catcher engi build or smth

[honest grotto]

Anyways, I'm not bothered to argue about ufo mas anymore as I've already done it enough times

[honest grotto]

are you stupid

Anyways

[jaunty pond]

Yes!

[honest grotto]

If anyone wants to hear my defender mas rant, ping me

[jaunty pond]

@honest grotto

Wait lemme guess ur rant, its too op easy to get some paths are better then others archer deals high dps etc etc etc etc

[honest grotto]

The obtainment is decent, some classes outclass others (ranged are better than melee), some paths are objectively better

And volley has a dps of 5

For reference, midas E with maxed scaling has 1.95 dps

[thorn vessel]

Gravity mastery should have been it own ability

[jaunty pond]

Grav mas should have been an april fools ability

[thorn vessel]

Too much effort for a joke

[full latch]

This
Move grav mas to be ability warrior like hoj, keeps the anime abilities together while also freeing up a mastery slot for gravity so that it can get an actual mastery

[keen umbra]

COSMOS MASTERY REWORK WHEN

[heady sparrow]

It's monotonous and just boring, having to do a singular task over and over is boring and incentivises people to just farm off their friends. I think having multiple lesser objectives would be much better and would promote using actual strategies like Slap Battles.

Just because it took you a while to get doesn't mean you're actually good at using it

[keen umbra]

ew no

slap battles mastery obtainments are NOT good

i recently got a random mastery

its easily twice as long as the common ability wars mastery

[heady sparrow]

I just used Slap Battle's system as an example

[keen umbra]

slap battle's system is ability war's system, but with extra annoying tasks

like placing 1000 bricks in one life

[heady sparrow]

ability warriors when the quests actually have you play the game and use abilities

[frail terrace]

okay but the reality is that getting truly good at something IS TEDIOUS

[keen umbra]

or teleporting 100 times without getting hit (easy, but super monotonous)

[keen umbra]

?!

slap battles masteries are grindy af

why are you defending them

[frail terrace]

i think mastery obtainments should be like Slap Battles lean towards multiple objectives but the objectives are a mix of both repetition and challenges

[heady sparrow]

i'm defending the quest system not the actual quests themselves

[keen umbra]

ohh okay

[frail terrace]

but the way you obtain most of them isnt mindless spam

[heady sparrow]

multiple objectives is better than 1 long objective

[keen umbra]

so its good..?

[frail terrace]

they actually require significant use of the glove to its fullest potential

[frail terrace]

yes

[keen umbra]

im sorry, im not being sold on tha

most of the quests ARE the same thing

or unnecessary extra filler

[frail terrace]

do you just want free dopamine even if it doesnt make you better at the game

[keen umbra]

or smth really fucking stupid like sitting around for 10 hours spinning

[frail terrace]

has bro seen flash mastery obtainment

[keen umbra]

i don't want to grind 1000 bricks in one life.

[keen umbra]

thats the one i got.

it was fucking long and tedious

at least Flash is fun to use

[frail terrace]

good. the quests for it are actually skill based like the ambush one

you need skill to ambush

[keen umbra]

no you dont

[frail terrace]

and ambush combos are flash's best combat

[keen umbra]

i didnt master flash

i just grinded for hours to get something broken

[frail terrace]

ok quick question

will you ever change your mind on this

lets say we argued forever and brough up reasonable points

[keen umbra]

I don't like Slap Battle's obtainments

[frail terrace]

guess i cant change that

but they are good

[keen umbra]

in my opinion they are not

[frail terrace]

i will always like obtainments that promote skill over instant gratification

[keen umbra]

so you like stuff that are long and grindy af

[frail terrace]

you will always like obtainments that are fun even if they arent skilled

end of argument

[frail terrace]

yes

[keen umbra]

the masteries dont really take skill in slap battles

[frail terrace]

more time spent = more comfort and skill when using said ability

[heady sparrow]

that's literally just ability war's system

[frail terrace]

to me they do

[keen umbra]

ability wars' is better on average

[frail terrace]

because they just have mastery "quests" that relate nothing to properly using the ability?

portal mastery obtainment is cool but it is completely unrelated to base portal

[keen umbra]

those are fun...?

[frail terrace]

they are but still

[keen umbra]

enjoyment is the only thing that matters

[frail terrace]

in my opinion

[keen umbra]

extra grinds arent enjoyable and are poorly designed

[frail terrace]

it has to be both fun and good at improving the player

[keen umbra]

750 ambushes + 1500 teleports is weird

[frail terrace]

id pick skill over free dopamine any day

[keen umbra]

it couldve been two quests

[frail terrace]

ok 1500 teleports is a lot

i will admit

[keen umbra]

they're the same thing though!!

[frail terrace]

maybe it could have been 1000 or less

[frail terrace]

ambush is different

[keen umbra]

flash is the least grindy quest in SB

[frail terrace]

because for the teleport quest

you can just mindlessly spam E

but for ambushes

[keen umbra]

and even that has some poor design choices

why are there two quests that do the same thing

[frail terrace]

you have to properly time and space your teleports to land right next to someone to slap them

ok im not arguing this

you do not seem to have any room for a changing opinion

and neither do i

[keen umbra]

and the 100 tps in a row quest feels like its just there to eat up time

[frail terrace]

bye!!!!

[keen umbra]

i wasnt replying to u just yet

i was going to read your messages after i made my point

[keen umbra]

yes

[keen umbra]

yeah

the point im trying to make is, both quests will likely end at similar times.

and whats the point of having a worse version of another quest that takes skill?

wouldnt it be better if it was one or two quests

rather than having a quest thats finished around the same time, and is objectively worse designed than the other quest?

[frail terrace]

i agree that one of the quests could be less severe

like

making it 500 teleports or something

idk

[keen umbra]

imo they should ditch the 1500 teleports alltogether

[frail terrace]

true

[keen umbra]

we already have 750 ambushes

[frail terrace]

that quest is mindless spam after you do the other two

[keen umbra]

and the 100 teleports in a row quest (which might also should be removed)

[keen umbra]

actually i completed that quest while doing the ambushes

so i never paid attention to it

[tawdry grail]

checkpoint

[harsh spear]

slap battles has the same exact issue, just with more steps
you have to X Y times
its certinaly better because it forces you to actually get good at using the ability but it still has that problem

[frail terrace]

Well the only way to get good is to put time and effort into using it....

[harsh spear]

which is why i dont like the idea of masteries in the first place
the only solution to it is to make everything a "do X Y times" quest because thats the only way to actually get good at it
which is why i would prefer Sidegrades; smaller, simplier quests which give you a different way to use an ability concept

[frail terrace]

Do people these days even care about getting good

[harsh spear]

A decent chunk probably
All I care about is having fun

[frail terrace]

Like am I the only one who is willing to put time and effort into something even if it isn't fun, for the sake of improving or getting some reward

I feel like it....

If I ever make a game it will not just be free instant dopamine

[harsh spear]

i like sticking to just having fun
i hate not having fun, its awful

[frail terrace]

You will have to WORK for every ounce of happiness

[harsh spear]

if there is something i have to do to earn something fun, i at least want to know im making progress on it

[frail terrace]

How is bro gonna succeed in life with that mindset 😭

[harsh spear]

its not a "im never gonna do non fun stuff"

[frail terrace]

Oh okay 👍

[harsh spear]

its just a "i heavily enjoy fun stuff and will get stuff done faster if im having fun while doing it"

[frail terrace]

That's everyone...

Dopamine is a very good motivator

If you think about it

Masteries just mimic real life

[harsh spear]

and thats why GAMBLING IS AWESOME!

[frail terrace]

You work for what you want

Not get it easily and instantly

Compare it to having a job

Working at Chipotle or something isn't fun probably but it pays well

Actually I could get into working there

I like cooking

[tawdry grail]

checkpoint 2️⃣

[mystic moth]

RAHHH

[jaunty pond]

Id prefer sidegrades with the mastery obtainment being an puzzle/minigame that is hard (unlike the bounty hunter one)

[subtle laurel]

damn i'm the only one

[keen umbra]

Maybe. Honestly I'm fine with medium long grinds if I'm using something that I find fun

Like umm most abilities, except Cosmos, Army and Engineer

I freaking hate using those 3. I'm glad Cosmos's grind is at least SHORT

[jaunty pond]

I would prefer more abilities instead of masteries

[heady sparrow]

Make any ability (except default and spectator) able to have a mastery

it's kinda weird how certain abilities like tree and mushroom and secret abilities aren't able to get masteries for some reason?

[unborn mirage]

They probably have thought it through and have a good reason for the ones that can't have masteries

[heady sparrow]

how come there isn't a reason stated for why these abilities can't get masteries?

[keen umbra]

Tree / Mushroom masts would be weird and they prob don't want to because those abilities are so gimmicky

[heady sparrow]

turn the mastery into a sidegrade 🤔

[keen umbra]

It's pretty much 10 new classes

Which is insane

[heady sparrow]

sidegrade

[keen umbra]

10 new classes IS the sidegrade

[heady sparrow]

2 - 3 classes for mushroom and tree masteries 🤔

[keen umbra]

So less classes than the unmastereds

[heady sparrow]

i was thinking it'd be more solo based instead of team based

[keen umbra]

A mastery, at minimum would require the same amount of classes

[keen umbra]

That's not mushroom. I don't like that idea

[heady sparrow]

but a mastery would be a sidegrade

[keen umbra]

AKA a bunch of new and different classes

[heady sparrow]

ability warriors love gatekeeping cool shit because "too much work"

[keen umbra]

Having six classes instead of the full ten would feel lame

And we'd end up having more

[keen umbra]

I'm saying it's REALISTIC why they dont want to add mushtree mast

Treeshroom

Yeah I'm calling the abilities treeshroom

[unborn mirage]

Might have to ask them but I think most of them are self explanatory (hivemind/dos and seasonal abilities along with default)

[heady sparrow]

no they aren't

i have ideas for hivemind and dos masteries

that aren't just streak abilities

[tawdry grail]

checkpoint 3️⃣

[pseudo marsh]

add back seeing cooldowns with bounty hunter masery

[tawdry grail]

Hi

[tawdry grail]

@storm mortar some info about the peoples opinions on masteries if u wanted to see

[wide hill]

"unrelated"?

its literally testing your skills with the mastery version

like a trial to deem if your worthy of obtaining it

or take bounty hunter mastery as an example

a whole on custom bossfight

[frail terrace]

Yes. It has nothing to do with going across different dimensions. But I get what you mean.

[wide hill]

the mastery literally needs you to go to another dimension

in order to do the trial to begin with

[mystic moth]

portal

portal 2

[odd cape]

Can we get hero of justice mastery

Portal mastery rework would be nice tbh

[full latch]

based on the gameplay of portal/portal 2.

[frail terrace]

I know that

[wide hill]

nah i think portal mastery is solid tbh

portal is just a silly ability overral

[tawdry grail]

since this is still a relevant topic ill leave it open though the polls are done

[red siren]

buff paladin mastery requirement

the boss is way too easy

[wide hill]

fr

especially for paladin mastery having 4 abilities

(one is the hammer throw second is the shield third is the shield charge and fourth is the shield throw)

if we exclude that you can pull the hammer back to yourself like pulse

[brisk sphinx]

It may have 4 abilities but it feels a bit underwhelming imo
Like the most DMG you can do using your abilities are ~30 hp which feels very weak
At least the cooldowns aren't that bad

However I love the design, is very beautiful

[digital dawn]

I have a proposal

Add two ways to obtain a mastery. A Hit/Kill ### times method and a quest method that is of similar difficulty as the first method

Some of the mastery quest just gives you a headache if u do it on mobile, i’d rather grind and farm

[wide hill]

peak

please hire this man

[tawdry grail]

no one talks here anymore so im closing it

[bleak relic]

I do

[unborn mirage]

Damn

I could feel the aura through the screen

[bleak relic]

Lol

[rustic pelican]

masteries are peak but the "kill people this many times" ones are boring and grindy

it'd make more sense if it was quests that required you to actually be good at using the ability

instead of running up to someone, using bone E on them, and running away

[wide hill]

i also agree with this

only thing is

the skilled people get the mastery day

1

and then leave the game again

waiting for another update

which if im being honest

thats a lot of people

and if its not grindy

a large part of the playerbase

might just not play the game other than update days

which is like bad

for ability wars to have more updates and actually being alive

AND not to mention this just eliminates the possibility of people that are bad with using the ability to get the mastery

which isnt that big of an issue (git gud)

but still makes it unfun for some people

[fallow crescent]

I dislike masteries that are just do X y times to obtain it

[wide hill]

we all do

but its essential to some degree

just read my wall of text i had left and i think you can understand why

im too lazy to explain allat again