ECM Pod as a Chicane's Nose Option

[dense cape]

now that we've gotten some wingtip ECM Pods for the chicane,i do think it'd be nice to add the option to swap out the 30mm Cannon for an ECM Pod,freeing up the Wingtip pylons for other options,and helping create a Long Range loadout option for the chicane

[kindred sigil]

I mean, it is an option, but... dunno, you are trading out one of the Chicane's most powerful tools there, not sure how often this nose pod would be used?

[dense cape]

Using the 30mm,when youre fighting in a somewhat contested area is practically a death sentence,because to be in range to use it means practically any ground unit can fire at you. Its definetly a side grade with the tradeoff of depriving yourself of a close in weapons system,but in doing so you gain a good defense against longer range munitions,and also you free up your wingtip pylons for extra munitions

[serene field]

I want this for Cricket more than Chicane but I'd use it on Chicane too

[gritty flower]

Eh, sure, why not. As long as its an ugly ass bulge that makes it look deformed but interesting.

[polar rune]

@spiral field is this feature really needed? Noose ecm pod...

[rose pivot]

There are two sides.

[ripe girder]

chicane ECM is pretty much mandatory for evading fox 3s after the ground clutter nerfs
unless you're 2m off a completely flat surface (ocean), even then it can regain lock
not sure how i should feel about this

[kindred sigil]

As a Chicane main, I like this change, to be honest.
Forces helicopters to either make even more use of terrain occlusion, like any helicopter should. Or to bring the ECM if needing to fly on the open, or over large water bodies.

Alternatively, always remember that if you load up some IRMs they are pretty nice AMMs.

[frank hazel]

Yea I've resorted to using my IRMs solely for shooting down incoming missiles that I know I can't avoid otherwise

[proper roost]

I think Chicane does need a stealth buff, needing ECM pods just to operate with any aicraft about isnt right, they take up the entire outer pylons when we literally just got some shiny new weapon options for them

Putting an ECM pod option in the nose does help but you still loose a weapon, both a buff and this suggestion would be ideal.

[frank hazel]

Yea this or the radar floor for the Chicane should be higher

[drowsy gorge]

Many modern attack helicopters give up pylons that could be used for AAMs for advanced countermeasures instead- the Apache is a great example.

Needing advanced and/or extra countermeasures to survive in contested airspace is very much realistic for an attack helicopter, so I'd say that's pretty "right" as far as balance goes.

You can make do without em tbh

[warm parrot]

Here's a thought;

Would this suggestion be moot if we had the option for asymmetric loadouts?

I mean, I can see the potential benefit of carrying 2 ecm-pods, but it does leave me wondering if one might not be enough. Especially on the chicane which can relatively easily dip into cover/ground clutter anyways.

So an option to mount an ecm-pod on one side and AAMs on the other maybe?

[ripe girder]

i think on the apache it's more of a "stopgap", if it was built today they'd probably have those jammers installed internally
chicane is decades ahead of 2025 tech, let alone the 80s that apache was made in
given the (likely) abundance of extreme range radar missiles in 2070, all helicopters would have the bare minimum of countermeasures installed by default IMO, as you can't guarantee the absence of enemy air power in such a large radius

i'd just buff it's radar floor back to reasonable levels, as having to fly very close to the ground at all times is a fair tradeoff for freeing up a slot
currently even 5m off the sea often doesn't make scythes completely lose lock, just prevents their tracking
and anything less than 3m is difficult without sensitivity curves, that's above a perfectly flat sea

[drowsy gorge]

Absolutely not for re buffing radar floor. It’s completely unrealistic and creates a poorly balanced gameplay loop where aircraft can ignore SARHs and ARHs.

Flying low already gives you the benefit of the radar horizon against low angle shots and a better ability to use terrain for screening, it shouldn’t be a magic-anti-missile zone

Flying close to the ground isn’t hard, especially in a helicopter lol

[kindred sigil]

I agree, the old radar floor was a literal "I am immune to radar" for helicopters, it was too safe.

[ripe girder]

i'm not asking for old 20m, i'm talking about specifically the chicane, as it either needs it's ECM pods or to expend precious heatseekers
perhaps flying under 5-10m and notching at the same time should guarantee an evasion, currently even 5m can be unreliable

[lime wren]

I think Chicane should probably have an internal jammer

[drowsy gorge]

This is a realistic limitation of attack helicopters, tbh

Helicopters struggle to operate in contested airspace, I like that jets can now realistically threaten helicopters from range.

Any kind of “guaranteed evasion” mechanic outside of dedicated countermeasures or properly notching is pretty broken from a balance perspective

The Chicane isn’t a platform that can self escort, conceptually. It needs proper air cover to be able to operate freely.

[lime wren]

Chicanes are best operated in packs, of 3-4

[ripe girder]

only in pve servers

[lime wren]

At least one just fully loaded with IR missiles, one or two with lynchpin rockets, and one with ATP-1s.

They all provide lasing for the lynchpin one(s), the IR one provides defense and the ATP one does AT

One lynchpin one can be replaced with AGM-68s and wingtip lynchpins

[drowsy gorge]

I’m really not sure what situation in PVP you’re arguing for

If you’re in a Chicane and you’re dying to Scythes, I’d argue that’s because you’re not flying with proper support

Everyone wants to balance vehicles to be completely relevant individually when, conceptually, that’s at odds with how vehicles physically work and the way they conduct their operations

[ripe girder]

even if there is proper air cover, a scythe can cover what, 40km? basically the entirety of heartland
even if the enemy is being spawnkilled there is a non zero chance he may get a shot off

[drowsy gorge]

And an attack helicopter shouldn’t be in a position where it has no terrain to hide behind from a 40km shot, which would logically be low angle enough to terrain mask to defeat

This “X is weak, so to make it fair it must have a hard counter to Y weapon!” balancing is hero-shooter-balancing and totally inappropriate for a flight sim-lite IMO

[polar rune]

Sikorsky said this will kill chicane feature - cool 30mm gun

[radiant solstice]

Your best ECM is a hill

if you're flying out in the open in a chicane then you deserve to get hit by every single fox-3 produced during the Primeva-Boscali conflict

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it (even this is still quite dangerous but hey it's pve)

[polar rune]

Sikorsky said. If you need use jammer pod on chicane - mean you don't know how to play on helicopter. And you too high

[dense cape]

What if you want to use the Chicane from a destroyer?Or just you want to move across any body of water? You might need to traverse through a large area with no cover to help you

[frank hazel]

Hopefully the Destroyer would intercept the missiles for you, unless it's out of ammo

[polar rune]

FLY LOW BRO

[drowsy gorge]

Why would you be sortieing a Chicane across an ocean when enemy fighter jets are about? That’s like trying to BVR with a Cricket. Don’t.

[dense cape]

Sure yeah that can stop it,but the point is about having more options to defeat ARHs without having to hug the seafloor. Currently you either Hug the sea or you better have ECM at the ready (or some IRs)

[drowsy gorge]

Yeah that’s how it’s supposed to work, welcome to flying an attack helicopter

[dense cape]

? Whats your point?

[drowsy gorge]

My point is that attack helicopters shouldn’t expect to have a hard counter to ARH missiles beyond what they have now- terrain and ECM pods

[lime wren]

I do think it makes more sense for the ECM to be internal tbh

[drowsy gorge]

I don’t hate internal ECM, tbh

I hate multipath/overpowered ground clutter though

[dense cape]

Yeah, this post is for adding an ECM pod on the nose mount

[kindred sigil]

You take off with the wing jammers (solved!)

[dense cape]

What if you want to retain your wingtip Air munitions?

[kindred sigil]

You put them in one of the other two ammo positions.
This is just quite similar to when you have to sacrifice one spot for the jammers on a Medusa, or you have to cut on some weapons or fuel so you can take off vertically on some craft. It is a trade off. You get X for Y.

[dense cape]

Sure,that could work. Me personally,i think it'd be nice if you could swap it with the Nose pylon,hence why i made the suggestion.Its still a tradeoff,just a different type.

[kindred sigil]

Agreed