The Vortex should get the 2x ARH rack in its internal bay.

[earnest tartan]

Nuff said. Right now the ifrit is so much better for air to air, having 8 internal missles (6 radar 2 ir) compared to the vortex's 4 or 6 (4 radar, 6 ir, or 4 ir 2 radar) This is not including external weapons bays because I think that's fine. I do have some thoughts for the revoker's hardpoints but that'd for another post.

[plush light]

I believe it should have the space to fit, at least the scythes anyway. Scimitars may be larger.

[earnest tartan]

Maybe just no scimitar doubling. Seems fair.

[plush light]

Since the Ifrit does cost about 36 mil more before loadouts, I feel as though its capability should be a bit higher than the vortex, but I also definitely feel that this would be a very welcome change, in my book at least

[worn zealot]

I’d love for the Vortex to get 6 internal Scythes- “6 in the bay” is a big initiative for the F-35A/C, which have larger bays than the B, and Mitch has made it clear the Vortex doesn’t have the same limitations the F-35B has- but I think the issue is, you cannot physically cram 6 Scythes in there. I remember @safe wasp shared a render where it showed the missiles clipping.

I wonder if a mixed loadout could work- 1 Scythe and 1 S3 or S2, for example, so the Vortex can carry 4 ARHs and 2 heatseekers internally, for a slightly better BVR loadout than 2 ARHs and 4 or 6 heatseekers

Found it! #feedback-and-suggestions message

So 6 internal Scythes might work but it would require modeling the Scythe to have folding fins, though I do wonder if the bay could be hollowed out slightly more as an alternative.

[earnest tartan]

That's actually a really good idea.

[earnest tartan]

Wait is that 6 in the main bay? I ment 4 in the main bay + the 2 in the side bays. But heck I wouldn't say no...

[worn zealot]

That’s 6 total, the Vortex has a single weapon bay split into inner and outer for loadout variety purposes. You’d select 2x Scythe and 1x Scythe in the loadout for a total of 6 internal Scythes

[safe wasp]

(a single bay on each side that is)

[worn zealot]

The Vortex doesn’t have any external weapon bays, it either carries 4 Scythes internally, or 2 Scythes + 4/6 heatseekers (S3 or S2 respectively)

An external weapon bay is also an oxymoron lol

[earnest tartan]

Oh I see. So yeah. Ok that makes more sense. I wish the game had a proper vtol vr style loadout editor to make this more clear but I know why they did the system that they have. Also external weapons bays was a typo, i ment external hardpoints but I couldn't edit my original message.

[worn zealot]

You should be able to edit your post if you want- the three dots at the top have a drop down menu where you can edit, or right click it I think.

It’s a good suggestion and I got your meaning, I think the Vortex would definitely benefit from a better internal ARH loadout, and I don’t think anyone is worried about power creep for a fighter that’s so kinematically disadvantaged.

[safe wasp]

i just dont think its possible

[earnest tartan]

No I did that it's just didn't edit lol

[worn zealot]

Can the weapon bays be extended inward at all to fit 3 Scythes per bay? It’s not a length issue, it’s the missile fins clipping that’s the issue, right?

[fast shoal]

ifrit is rank 4 and vortex is rank 3..

[worn zealot]

And?

[earnest tartan]

Take the old hammer and chisel aprouch and shave some space out. Could work.

[safe wasp]

it would be easy if it was a length issue i believe

but the bays are probably as wide as they can be already

[fast shoal]

why wouldn't a higher rank, more expensive aircraft be better?

[worn zealot]

Not width, depth as in can the bays extend inwards any more at all

[earnest tartan]

The ifrit can carry SO much more total. Multi role as a interceptor-fighter-bomber at the same time so I think its fine if the vortex has some fun

[safe wasp]

the bays are already really close to the engine

[worn zealot]

The Ifrit would still be better, as it can carry 6 ARHs (including Scimitars) and 2 S2s internally, while having comparable stealth and significantly better kinematic performance.

Also, the Vortex can already carry 8 missiles internally, so this wouldn’t increase the overall missile count. It would help it be better at BVR, however. It’s not a role the fighter excels at, currently.

[fast shoal]

BDF rank 4 will eventually exist

[worn zealot]

So the only solution is either somehow widening the bays, folding the Scythe fins, or introducing a new ARH missile that (like the S2) fits in the Vortex’s bays better

…what about 4 Scythes and a S2 in one Vortex bay? Could that fit?

[earnest tartan]

F47 ahh planes 😭

[safe wasp]

i think it could fit but then the issue becomes how to put that on the loadout screen

[worn zealot]

I’d be happy with 4 Scythes and two S2s, I think. 4 Scythes alone feels a bit naked.

Just have one loadout option be 1x Scythe/ 1x S2 for the larger bat option

[analog bison]

Yeah something like the J-50 or F-47 would fit. It would probably still have the flight characteristics of the vortex but would be able to carry as much ordnance as an ifrit can but 100% internally and have better climb performance/speed

Or as I've said before: flies like a medusa with a rocket up up its ass

[safe wasp]

currently we dont have any loadout option that allows for multiple weapons in one slot, except for the LVC-25 AA and AT, but you cant choose the order of deployment

[worn zealot]

What about doing something like the Darkreach’s bays, where there’s a third “full bay” drop down menu with an option for 2x Scythes and 1x S2? Using it greys out the other options and visa versa

[trail nest]

or have it split even further into 'bay slot 1, 2, and 3'

[safe wasp]

you see how that ends up really confusing though right?

[worn zealot]

Absolutely, it’s not a perfect solution, but I’m not aware of a better workaround

[earnest tartan]

vtol vr style loadout editor!!!!!!!!!!!! I think it would still fit with the game and would allow for much more customization

[worn zealot]

What if the Vortex had the option to take 2x Scythes in the larger bay side, but it greyed out all but the S2 for the other drop down menu? No new menu needed, slightly less confusing

[agile grail]

I think it'd be cool if vortex had side bayed S1s, like the Irfits S2s.
More for self-defence missile intercept, at least doctrinally.
Would add just enough staying power to a clean vortex's sortie that you don't feel too constrained

[worn zealot]

there isn’t physical room in the model for heater bays
In addition, the Vortex already can carry 8 internal missiles via the S2 loadout options. The Vortex doesn’t need more heatseekers.

[agile grail]

Clarified on the other thread, but I'm now thinking have some "default" heaters with any loadout like how irfit does. This could be done (maybe) by hanging the heats off the inside of the bay door - they fit snuggly alongside ARHs when doors are closed, and give enough separation for safe release when open.

The 4 ARHs does feel a bit restrictive, but having 6 internal with irfit parity feels too strong. The vortex needs these sort of trades to reflect its design philosophy - stealth fighter off the annex

A 3xARH pylon on the wings should be given, though

[safe wasp]

not enough space for extra missiles in the bay unless you make the missiles smaller (and no, S1s do not count, we are not mounting stingers on anything faster than a tarantula again)
3x pylons dont fit

[safe wasp]

also finally tried this out, its too tight to make it work realistically (though in just gameplay it would work)

[worn zealot]

It would work if the Scythes had recessed mounts in the bay- and so would 6 x Scythes I think

[agile grail]

stinger sized missiles for self-defence purposes is a legit concept on fast jets https://aviationweek.com/defense/missile-defense-weapons/raytheon-build-mini-missile-interceptor-aircraft-self-defense
Not saying it has to be the S1

For the clipping, could the vortex not have its own seperate style of 3x mount? The current one is quite wide

[chilly flax]

We need a 4th IR missile: SRAAM equivalent with no fins and relies entirely on thrust vectoring.

Self destructs once the booster runs out with similar price and performance to the IRM-1 (just with no coasting)

[subtle nexus]

welcome back APKWS

[plush light]

Modeling folding fins doesn't seem like something that would be too arduous to do tho

[agile grail]

a folded and smaller fin scythe variant, with less agility, could be an interesting and legit concept to solve this issue...

[worn zealot]

A 6 Scythe Vortex wouldn’t have parity with an Ifrit. The Ifrit would have significantly better speed, agility, and the ability to mix and match Scythes/Scimitars internally, as well as heater bays, whereas the Vortex would be locked into 6 Scythes only.

[agile grail]

BVR loadout parity, as per my comment. When it comes to BVR duals, irfit would have the advantage still through speed and agily (for notching/positioning).
Not saying that itself should be a blocker. But I do think, for the price point and annex capability, 4 scythes internal might be an accepted trade-off. Like how it was for the F-35B. But maybe in the game it's a bit too frustrating

[subtle nexus]

this is why i think a 6x scythe vortex is balanced, because its able to be both achieved and surpassed with a 6x scythe ifrit

[earnest tartan]

exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[willow sigil]

I want this. Let me live my life as a flying SAM site

[earnest tartan]

Five.
Hundred.
Scythes.

[hazy canyon]

added 2x scythe inner bay, 2x scimitar inner bay, agm-68 outer bay, and a few more in QOL Mod v1.0.5 💙

[safe wasp]

good lord the clipping

[rich violet]

Iirc Offiry added folding fins

[hazy canyon]

not to the mod yet

[rocky lark]

Nuclear option runs on ksp physics confirmed

Keep on part clipping

[grand dove]

Dont think fin clipping would be that big of a deal tbh. It would be visible only when the bay is open. Should be fine as long as the clipping itself doesnt cause any phantom forces or collisions during the launch.

[rocky lark]

There’s already a few instances of clipping in nuclear option - GPO500 internal on vortex, s3 internal on compass.

That said personally i would rather there wasnt any part clipping

[proud canyon]

I tried to implement it

https://youtu.be/Qm5xBaSMHbM