Better Ifrit thrust vectoring

[thick furnace]

basically, just ad more thrust vectoring for the KR-67 Ifrit such as yaw vectoring (seen in left photo), deceleration vectoring (seen in top right) and other vectoring options (like the nozzles close when accelerating or sm). this would make the KR-67 more maneuverable overall and make the game more realistic.

[surreal inlet]

nope far too op

[wraith gulch]

no lmao

how is making the best maneuvering plane in the game more maneuverable "more immersive" lmao

[rancid ember]

please dont do anything to this plane its already op and i would hate if it was nerfed

[thick furnace]

i js thought that it made more sense that it have the abilities that it should/could

[wary cairn]

there is a line between realistic and fun. NO tries to straddle that line, and soemtimes that means foregoing something realistic for something fun

[thick furnace]

i do agree but i still think that there should still be yaw vectoring because it is not used all that much but is still useful

[wraith gulch]

why does the ifrit need it though. "because it will make it better" is not an answer, why does the ifrit need to be better? what gameplay or balancing purpose does giving it vectored thrusting along the yaw axis(requiring the entire redesign of the engine section) actually bring to the game as a whole

[lyric frigate]

It’s not tho, revoker in right hands absolutely wrecks an ifrit

[rancid ember]

its up to the pilot

[left sequoia]

yeah and if it comes down to pilot skill between a plane that costs like 70mil and one that costs ~130mil i don't think you can call the 130mil one OP

[lyric frigate]

Top level revoker absolutely kills top level ifrit no contest

[frozen sonnet]

Ith kewl

[surreal inlet]

This is not true I'm one of the best revoker players and vs TWP we are matched

[frozen sonnet]

Also I really like this but we already have differential airbrakes for the purpose
Not sure why everyones calling it op just for having a little more yaw control but I really dont wanna wake up to 30 unreads with their own arguments so..

[lyric frigate]

The amount of effort required to wrestle advantage back from revoker in a straight dogfight is much harder

[surreal inlet]

It's still just a matter of skill

[frozen sonnet]

Revoker is better dogfighter
Ifrit is better BVR but can hold a dogfight
There, settled.

[surreal inlet]

Also the revokers gun doesn't do any good damage to the iffret with out 25+ shots

[frozen sonnet]

That RPM compensates in my opinion
But that's just me

[surreal inlet]

The iffrit only needs 1 shot and in a head on scenario the only way for the revoker yo win is pilot snipe or don't shoot and jink

[lyric frigate]

Revoker is like glass, the engine is fcked if you so much as sneeze on it

[frozen sonnet]

The engine strikes like a match

[lyric frigate]

Revoker engine gonna die in the rain lmao

[frozen sonnet]

(minor tailstrike)
"ENGINE FIRE"
(ejects)

[thick furnace]

1. in upwards accents like going directly up without yaw contol in the engines it just falls out of the sky, also it helps with control when on the ground/runway. 2. how will it require a "re-design" of the engine? all the movements are already programed in all that needs to be done is add the actual vectoring and the specific combination of movements, but definately not an "entire redesign of the engine section" lol

[surreal inlet]

the iffert has the 2nd strongest gun in game behind the 76mm

[surreal inlet]

iffrit is a multirole not a pure fighter so i woulnt give yaw vectoring

[thick furnace]

i still dont think that it hurts to add it

[surreal inlet]

i fought a modded iffrt that had yaw vector ist beond op

[lyric frigate]

Even with the 50 cal 5 or so shots can blow up the engine

[thick furnace]

it is or it isnt beyond op?

[surreal inlet]

it was op

look at it

still beat it tho

but if they got good with it it would kill anyother plane

[thick furnace]

althoug i am not very well versed in dogfights or any of that, (in my opinion) i dont think that yaw is used all that much in dog fights (but i dont realy dogfight at all so i may be wrong) and i dont think that it provides such a large advantage.

[surreal inlet]

why are u trying to say its fair if u don't have the experience?

[thick furnace]

because i am giving my opinion

[surreal inlet]

why give your opinion on something u havent done?

[thick furnace]

ok, what do you think i should do? just completely ignore what you said? or say at least something and admit i could be wrong?

[surreal inlet]

its kinda your chice im just giving what i think bassed on what ive seen

[thick furnace]

same here

[surreal inlet]

but didnt u just say that u had no experience😭

[thick furnace]

EXACTLY i said what i think given what i have seen (whitch isnt much) which is why my knowledge is more limited than yours AND i admit that

[surreal inlet]

wanna do some fights ill run a server

[thick furnace]

sure tho ill prolly lose lol also im an a pretty crappy laptop

[surreal inlet]

k its gun fight hosted by panther F

[winged plume]

That was one of the most egregious Syrian Lead Turns I’ve ever seen.

[frozen sonnet]

Also
https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1299480827272499301
?

[charred yoke]

those are not airbrakes afaik, just for when the engines are shut off

[frozen sonnet]

Well maybe in NO they could be used as brakes?

[charred yoke]

ifrit already has very good airbrakes i think, no point really

[frozen sonnet]

I mean I though it looked really cool

Also why does my aircraft jump back when I apply wheel brakes from idle?

[charred yoke]

because wheels and brakes are weirdly simulated

try rolling down a ramp backwards

they behave very strangely

[frozen sonnet]

Or going in reverse in a tarantula with 0 throttle..

[wary cairn]

That's because the blades have negative pitch at 0 throttle so you can back up. Intended behavior

[frozen sonnet]

I know that
Im saying its janky cause it turns when you do it.

[surreal inlet]

Thx i try

[covert pier]

I miss all-wheel brakes
compass could land basically anywhere

[charred yoke]

it still can

now we have lower fuel which also reduces landing distance since you have less mass to slow down

[winged plume]

By the Ifrit, not you

[sacred oracle]

The f22 cannot yaw vector with its engines

in this picture the right engine is just not on. When you see an f22 with the engine nozzles splayed out, it's just because they're not on

[heady patio]

Absolutely not the best maneuvering plane in the game lol

[charred yoke]

revoker is miles better with its high aoa stability thanks to the yaw TV

[heady patio]

Thank you

[thick furnace]

i was using the pictures as an example of what it could look like

[wraith gulch]

so... it could look like a nozzle not capable of 3d thrust vectoring while somehow having the ability to have 3d thrust vectoring?

[thick furnace]

OMGG you are so funny😆

[charred yoke]

sorry but the ifrit nozzles are not capable of doing yaw thrust vectoring, even if you used the expansion of the nozzles, this would only reduce thrust on a engine

[thick furnace]

yes... if you reduce thrust on one engine but not the other you get an asymmetrical thrust and on a plane like the ifrit that would cause a yaw effect. would it not?

[charred yoke]

it would, thats just asymmetrical thrust and not thrust vectoring though

[thick furnace]

but it would result in the same effect as yaw vectoring (other than being less powerful)

[charred yoke]

not really, you would lose the pitch and roll authority of that engine by running it at lower thrust, which causes another bunch of stability issues

[left sequoia]

also like. less thrust, not as much energy gain

[forest plinth]

You can confidently add split throttle control yourself using DNSpy, despite what the mods would love to tell you yes differential thrust can be useful

Hell if you want you can even give Ifrit 3D TVC yourself using UABEA, although for now I wouldn't join multiplayer with UABEA modded planes, apparently a piece of code is broken which syncs the specs of planes server side
It's likely that if you do join multiplayer you'll have some unhappy people

[forest plinth]

For example

[forest plinth]

I know it doesn't have the animation there but it's definitely 3D TVC

[heady patio]

It is 2D thrust vectoring

[charred yoke]

yes, but someone modded it to have yaw TV as well, which then makes it 3D

[heady patio]

Oh ok, I thought they were claiming that the standard Ifrit had it, my bad. Thanks AAA

[undone goblet]

i see no reason for it to be excluded,
Yaw vectoring here seems to refer to using one of the nozzles as an airbrake,
and using them as an airbrake also changes the nozzle so it produces less, overall it would be quite nice.
and if you use them both as an airbrake it should be quite effective at slowing, not too effective however considering how small the nozzle is relative to aircraft. even more so considering the angle is limited,
and it could be combined with pitch aswell, so your airbrake is split between the upper and lower segment, so pitching up would get the lower nozzle to a neutral position again, effectivly being overridden by the normal thrust vectoring.

and from a realistic standpoint this makes sense too, its just a software update for some more manouverability.
now, im not saying i want it to be overpowered, however i can understand why you wouldnt want this added. it would improve a already good plane, however currently in dogfighting and such (where thrust vectoring would be most usefull) aircraft like the FS-12 can very easily outperform the KR-67.

[forest plinth]

The problem with what your saying is vectoring is the act of directing the path of your thrust, shutting down one engine and having it airbrake is not vectoring

And yes that engine IS shutdown

[left sequoia]

it's also making your plane produce less thrust overall which i imagine could be suboptimal in many situations

[forest plinth]

I still standby that differential thrust is useful, the Ifrit has fairly powerful engines and it's not something you would use at low alt

And with the power of tool modding you can infact add dual throttle control yourself and test differential thrust

[left sequoia]

having differential thrust could be useful yes, but having it be a part of any yaw input would not be helpful in most situations

[undone goblet]

Doesnt have to be if you think about it, due to how massive the nozzle of the airbraking engine is, it will generate alot less thrust. No nedd to throttle it down either

[forest plinth]

It won't generate any thrust with a nozzle fully open like that

[undone goblet]

will generate some, barely any tho. but its still forcing air trough the engine

[simple lava]

I absolutely sure ifrit have enough good thrusts vectoring

[sacred oracle]

The nozzles on the f-119 engine don’t assist with thrust, they’re there for thrust vectoring and to cool the exhaust

At least, not in a way that affects the speed of the air coming out of the engine

[forest plinth]

Actually the nozzles of the F-119 decreases thrust because the exhaust gasses have nothing directing them from the sides

[ancient gale]

I think the FS-12 is more manuverable, the Ifrit bleeds energy off way more.

[heady patio]

the Revoker is more manueverable 100%

[covert pier]

ifrit seems to perform better at low speeds,at least in a horizontal turn
revoker is quite prone to stalling as it has smaller wings

[forest plinth]

All a Revoker needs to do is position itself so the only way the Ifrit could hit it is using its Rudder

The Ifrit doesn't have the most amazing rudder control and the Revoker can Rudder hard enough to flatspin on command and easily recover

An Ifrit has no easy path to victory like that

The only real benefits that makes a considerable difference it has over the Revoker is that it has a much stronger airframe, and a very powerful gun

Your BEST chance would to be making BnZ passes

[frozen sonnet]

The ifrits really a strike fighter / bomber that can take care of itself in a dogfight should the need arise, the revoker is more air superiority fighter / interceptor, and its better with dogfighting and overall is just more well suited for the job.

[lyric frigate]

Imo BVR should be reworked, BVR is currently pretty much useless except for maybe mild annoyance

[frozen sonnet]

Well, it can be effective against AI

In carrier duel I launch in an ifrit with mostly scythes, wait for a whole wave of primevan compasses, ifrits, crickets, and somethimes chicanes, toss all the scythes so everything gets one

Usually I only miss an ifrit or two since they notch pretty fast

[charred yoke]

this is because they are designed to react very slowly

[covert pier]

it's pretty weird in general
sometimes ai planes react immediately and sometimes they don't care at all

[heady patio]

I find my best work with the Revoker is at low speed with high AOA manuevers and I don't have all that much trouble with stalling out tbh. The Ifrit just has the airframe of a tennis court so it's gonna have more lift and not struggle with stalling. You just can't pull aoa higher than 1⁰ with the flight assist off without inadvertently Kvochur's Bell-ing every time though lol

[forest plinth]

That's what I've been saying about the Ifrit
It has chronic sukhoi disorder

It's lift is a negative trait, exaggerated by the fact that we can't use differential thrust to combat it

Also I heard we don't have vortex lift on any of our planes which definitely decreases high AOA performance

[winged plume]

Differential thrust is a great way to fall out of the sky.

[forest plinth]

If you are dumb, are you dumb?

I mean you are picking a fight with someone who has seen it used via a DNSpy mod in game

[heady patio]

When you read this, please block the guy. He acted like this toward me too.

[surreal inlet]

Fall out the sky have u EVER been in a dog fight?

[winged plume]

Once or twice

[kind vector]

Timeout for breaking rule 1.