If the Leader and the Boss die on the same turn, it should count as a win. | Wildfrost | Page 1

edgy carbon Apr 22, 2023, 1:46 PM

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Kinda
Hard to continue a run thematically with a dead leader

stable surge Apr 22, 2023, 2:00 PM

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why are they dead

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if any of your other members die, they just get injured for the next battle

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why can't the same be true for your leader if the boss of the other guys is also dead so all their guys are gonna run away

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the implication of "dead" is usually that all your other guys seem to run off and leave you for dead

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but if the battle is "over" why can't they just nurse you back to health like they do apparently everyone else

edgy carbon Apr 22, 2023, 2:02 PM

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Well that's just getting into the territory of why you just shouldn't lose whenever your leader dies reguardless

stable surge Apr 22, 2023, 2:03 PM

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well the reason you lose when your leader dies is that there's nobody to lead the others around anymore and presumably your "leader" is the one using the cards

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but if the battle is over, shouldn't that be fine??

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you already can't play any more cards at that point

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either way, even if i cant justify it thematically which i feel like i mostly have, gameplay wise it just feels abysmal

edgy carbon Apr 22, 2023, 2:05 PM

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I genuinly feel you're just reaching cause you're upset about that shroom lost
Which I agree, is stupid. You shouldn't take shroom damage if you already killed the boss

But I don't think it should count as a win if the boss and leader died at the same time

stable surge Apr 22, 2023, 2:05 PM

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the only way that can happen is something stupid like spikes or smackback or poison anyway

edgy carbon Apr 22, 2023, 2:06 PM

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Well yea, but reguardless it just, doesn't make sense for it to count as a win

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Whenever your leader dies it's a loss, that's just how it should always be

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No reason to have this weird niche exception

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I agree shrooms shouldn't proc at the end of a fight once you've won

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But both the leader and enemy boss dying at the same time should not count as a win

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It's just a weird exception that doesn't make sense with the rules the game has already set

stable surge Apr 22, 2023, 2:08 PM

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there are all kinds of weird niche exceptions in games like these for the purpose of game feel and making the player not feel awful about losing
im glad you agree about the shrooms thing, but that is still a "weird excpetion" because it doesn't happen in any other case

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and im not saying if they die at the same time, i'm saying if the boss died and THEN you get killed

edgy carbon Apr 22, 2023, 2:08 PM

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I mean, shrooms just shouldn't proc once the boss has died

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They don't proc on enemies after the boss dies

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So they shouldn't proc on your units

stable surge Apr 22, 2023, 2:09 PM

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that's still consistent with the rest of the game, because shroom procs at the start of an enemy turn

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if your units are killing them, it's currently YOUR turn

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and if you kill the boss with a card

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it's still technically in the "card phase"

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it's all consistent, it's just another thing that feels bad

edgy carbon Apr 22, 2023, 2:10 PM

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It isn't consistent

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But whatever

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I just don't think a leader dying with a boss dying should count as a win

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Leader death means loss

stable surge Apr 22, 2023, 2:11 PM

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i mean i guess i'd just take the shroom change, whether it's a "weird exception" or not

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but people are entitled to their own opinions i guess

tawny kettle Apr 22, 2023, 2:53 PM

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Only on the final boss imo. Since ||canonically you don't win that fight anyway||

worthy hatch Apr 24, 2023, 9:32 AM

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I 100% agree with the shroom thing,
but there is also an argument for not dying if both you and the boss die because of spikes.

When your allies go down, but you win, they come back injured.
If both your leader and the boss go down, if you had a majority of units left, it would make sense that the enemies would be afraid and flee. Your companions would nurse you back to health and your leader would get the injured status.

I feel like this would fit thematically or lore wise. Your companions are not wild animals and wouldn't run away from their injured leader if there were no enemies around.

I don't feel like this is very much needed, but would make sense because of companions not actually dying when they go down.

exotic cove Apr 25, 2023, 1:20 AM

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Having the leader become injured if you manage to win the fight but the leader dies in the process would be perfect. It would be a rare case of an unexpected interaction resolving in your benefit, and god knows this game needs more of that. You'd get the feeling of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat which is always good.

worthy hatch Apr 25, 2023, 10:44 AM

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I got into another situation yesterday where the leader died after the boss was dead.
Leader had frenzy, killed the boss, continued to attack and died to hitting a smackback unit.
Or ally had frenzy, killed boss, hit an enemy with smackback and barrage, barrage killed leader.

Frenzy should still play out like that. Don't want to miss out on combos due to enemies running away after boss is dead in the middle of a frenzy.

edgy carbon Apr 25, 2023, 10:45 AM

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Enemy smackbacks just shouldn't activate after the boss is dead

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Same with shrooms on allies

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Same idea as enemies running away after the boss dies

little scarab Apr 25, 2023, 12:45 PM

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A special interaction would be cool

#If the Leader and the Boss die on the same turn, it should count as a win.