the installation is so fast that it's one of those things even in street clothes nobody is going to notice
#US - Minneapolis/St. Paul Metro
quaint marlin
seriously less than 30 second install
The best part is, I have an identical street light literally in my front yard, so I get to practice a lot.
for instance, I pulled a complete dumbass move last night - tried to update the firmware on the one outside my house on the street light... .from inside the house.
it made it about 15% before it lost connection. Had I just been on the front porch instead of... yes, IN BED, it would have been fine...
but that bricked the node, so today I had to go out and take it down, bring it in, take it apart, and USB-flash the node, and then go put it back up
obviously, warnings about updating mesh networking firmware from bed is just not in the documentation or I never would have done it.
oh and so far I only have two installed. I have four more that I'm putting together, so ther'll be plenty of chance for akward encounters while I am installing. That said, I've already worked on a cover story for if I am in plain clothes (which I probably will be) - about how I'm volunteer teaching a class on mesh networking at a local tech school.
I have one planned to go in the most public place I've tried so far, but even then I'm certain it's not going to be very noticable
(on Hwy 52 near South St Paul, on an exit sign, if anyone is curious)
dreamy sapphire
only mndot or state patrol would notice
quaint marlin
I'll take a snapshot when it goes up, that's likely to be my next install
dreamy sapphire
only mndot would care
quaint marlin
nobody is gonna notice or care - it'll be on the wrong side of the sign hardware for anyone to notice or care, and it's a sign that doesn't have power going to it, in a completely innocuous location
so not only will it be 99% impossible to spot, but on a sign nobody has had any reason to visit or care about for a very long time
that's actually my strategy for putting up nodes on public infrastructure - on things that won't cause trouble, won't attact attention, and if it were to fall off, wouldn't hurt anyone or damage anything
I understand it's not 100% legal but also it's one of those things where it's totally not worth the authorities raising a fuss over
for those who know the area, that sign is my next
the intention is to attach it to the side facing away from northbound traffic so they don't see it, and southbound traffic are rarely going to be looking at the post of the other direction's exit signs
not to mention the node is already gray, and they are really hard to spot if you don't know exactly what you're looking for
Reason the node is going there - that spot has a direct LOS ACK to my home node, and it should get easy signal to a buddy's place in Inver Grove Heights
wide umbra
Any concerns with it falling onto the road or the sign material attenuating signal in certain directions?
quaint marlin
nope, because it will be attached to the pole that's 15ft to the right of the white shoulder line
wide umbra
Perf
quaint marlin
attenuation, I have no idea... but I'm willing to give it the ol' college try
that's what I mean by having the nodes be out of the way and harmless... if it falls it'll fall into the grass
My thought is, if I experience near 100% ACKs from that spot in my car, the attenuation will have to be NUTS for it not to work from 20ft in the air
I also make sure that my nodes have the entire antenna above whatever it's stuck to.
when I build and install it I will actually ask you guys to drive by and see what you think
but I am 99% sure it will be absolutely ridiculously difficult to spot. The only real downside is that the solar panel will face mostly due north.
but I'm coming to the conclusion that if you stuff enough battery into these things, even ambient sunlight is enough to keep a wisblock alive effectively indefinitely
Also, I would probably recommend to any of you in the metro to set all of your nodes to use 7 hops in the Lora settings. Since it's tough to get super-wide coverage, my thought is the more hops the better if you're hoping to get more than a couple miles from your current location.
I know setting a lot of hops can cause network congestion, but I just don't think that's going to be an issue in the US, especially in urban settings in the US.
junior cosmos
Yeah I have been thinking about the hops thing myself. I’m more curious to how the other LoRa settings affect things I know moving to short/fast significantly reduces the chirp which would then reduce congestion but also range.
quaint marlin
yeah, I think switching LoRa settings is pretty much only going to be for edge cases...but also in the case of congestion, which will always mirror traction. My guess is the twin cities has quite a long time before congestion becomes an issue
quaint marlin
that would probably be a great one, assuming there aren't other high power antennas already installed on it
that's better.. that's how innocuous the nodes are on streetlights
dreamy sapphire
Sneaky little antenna there
Nobody will see that unless they know to look for it
junior cosmos
Oh that is a nice spot lol
quaint marlin
that's how all my nodes are. I figure out which way most traffic comes from, who may be looking, and place it based on that vs. which way the sun rises, etc. This is due-north solar panels so I know it's not ideal but it's also 3 21700's so it's gonna have plenty of time to charge them bad boys up
speaking of nodes, just got a ping from here in downtown mpls...
could it be someone put a node on the roof?!
Portland and 10th
quaint marlin
Baller! Where's it gonna end up?
BTW I picked up the Yetiwurks node from home in St Paul!
or should i say "A" yetiwurks node - not sure if it's theirs or not, it may be named by them. YetiwurksMk1
It took 2 hops to get here, but it's a FIFTEEN MILE connect - boom!
dreamy sapphire
What was your route? I have a hard time hitting yeti
quaint marlin
I don't know how to check the route
if I had to guess it was just a node telemetry ping
don't know if you can trace those
dreamy sapphire
I think you have to do a big traceroute
quaint marlin
I know how to do a trace route, but I'd be willing to bet I could try 100 times and never get a response via a real traceroute
telemetry pings are somehow more forgiving
there are actually people who use telemetry pings to send messages, via literally just changing the long name of the node to like "Infered-meet-me-at-target-@10"
dreamy sapphire
I'll be out driving most of the day today, going to Anoka and then Bloomington. Hope I get some pings while I'm out there
quaint marlin
because node updates seem to propagate so well
dreamy sapphire
there are actually people who use telemetry pings to send messages, via literall...
I used to change my buddys name in pokemon go to send messages because there STILL isnt a way to send dms in that game, even to friends
Naming your buddy is literally the only way to send arbitrary information
quaint marlin
BTW I ordered some more 1W amps (not the 4W ones, the AB-IOT-868 "AirBuddy" ones that are really easy to power and use.)
if anyone wants one I'll be glad to sell one at cost
(aka 20 bucks)
dreamy sapphire
I ordered a battery for my wisblock, so soon™️ I can have a better pocket node
Doesnt show up until wednesday
Plus some other bits and bobs for my cyberdeck node
quaint marlin
I am SO stoked for the G2's to arrive (probably in a couple weeks if I had to guess) - can't wait to see the coverage increase
junior cosmos
Baller! Where's it gonna end up?
The plan for that one is on the roof at work currently I need to build my other one.
dreamy sapphire
No pings in the MOA
wide umbra
Didya go to the top of the ramp at MOA? Surprised you didn't hit me
dreamy sapphire
I'm at the top right now actually
Not the top top, that's closed. Second to the top
wide umbra
Give me a min here, gonna grab some temp higher ground
dreamy sapphire
My legs are on fire from all of today's walking so I'm content to chill a while still
wide umbra
Alright it's on the roof
Just a stock rak antenna so not expecting miracles but that isn't too far away
wide umbra
I see a new one
dreamy sapphire
Do you see aldv
wide umbra
Yep
dreamy sapphire
Woo
wide umbra
Dat you?
dreamy sapphire
Ye
wide umbra
Oh hell yeah
wide umbra
Nope same here
dreamy sapphire
Legs are rested so now I take off to ikea. Thanks for the ping test
wide umbra
Sounds good, great to know we are right on the cusp
dreamy sapphire
I live up in blaine, itll take longer to get a link between us
Just taking my wife on her birthdate today
If we can get a roof node on the moa ramp you could probably see a lot of the mall
wide umbra
Yeah I meant there being a path from my place to moa
junior cosmos
Hell yeah dudes let’s go!
I’ll be installing the work node on Wednesday along with hopefully a heltec v3 with TC2 BBS attached.
If dinner goes fast I plan to setup my private MQTT server to link work and home nodes till mesh gets bigger.
quaint marlin
Awesome work guys!
I actually had scoped out putting a node on the top of the MOA ramp, but was reminded that those ramps are FULL FULL FULL of cameras, every inch. Last thing you need is people knocking on your door asking what you "planted" at the ramp.
Let alone local news stories about mysterious radios being attached to things in public places 😄
that's one of the reasons I am so stoked about the Container Store/Pinstripes ramp - They may have a camera or two but nothing like MOA, which is of course a reasonably realistic place that people of ill-will may want to attack/etc. But not the container store... everyone loves the container store 😂
wide umbra
@robust flax this is the group you want to be in
quaint marlin
it's the group everyone wants to be in, but only the select few are up to the task
BTW Prime Day has Wisblocks for 36 bucks, next-day delivery.
just ordered two more... because 30 is apparently not enough
wide umbra
i think that's what they've been priced at on amazon for awhile?
quaint marlin
perhaps, I just got suckered by the email from Rokland
wide umbra
gotta love the amazon tactics of jacking the price prior to build a narrative for a "sale"
wide umbra
perhaps, I just got suckered by the email from Rokland
the real drug dealers
dreamy sapphire
I ordered an amazon wisblock for 40 bucks a few weeks ago
So its technically a whopping 4 bucks cheaper
wide umbra
10%!
spark glen
Looks like it's $36 - $4 coupon = $32 for me.
dreamy sapphire
HeltecV3s are also on slight discount
quaint marlin
gotta love the amazon tactics of jacking the price prior to build a narrative fo...
I could be wrong but I think that's pretty much all retailers.
dreamy sapphire
IIRC, there are no laws in the US about that
europe says you cant, theres a minimum price time before it can go on sale again
theres a local furniture retailer thats particularly egregious about it, you wont find a single item at full price
new SKUs are on 'sale'
robust flax
Last I checked this is merica'
robust flax
could it be someone put a node on the roof?!
Easy. Easier if it has a cell site but nobody can be sad if it gets disappeared.
quaint marlin
What do you mean by if it has a cell site?
BTW - if you are driving around looking for whether or not a certain spot is a good natural place for a node, MnTOPO is pretty great.
the markers show altitude above sea level:
quaint marlin
Easy. Easier if it has a cell site but nobody can be sad if it gets disappeared.
Unless you have space (and time, and money, and power) to build a cavity filter into your nodes, putting them on an active cell tower is going to end up being pretty fruitless. Most of them use hardware made specifically to squash signals that may compete or interfere with the various frequencies being dealt with on that particular tower. One of the 5G bands is actually pretty close to the frequency range MT uses, so it's pretty likely the node would get drowned out or otherwise nullfied electronically.
That would be the least of your worries though if the right (or wrong, depending on your viewpoint) authorities found/got a hold of a node and really wanted to find out who it belonged to.
Not saying they'd come door-kickin' / dog-shootin' or anything (but you never know) but I wouldn't be surprised if word spread around to industry people and other authorities to be on the lookout for uninvited radio devices on public infrastructure.
Which would potentially make MT propagation difficult.
What we're doing, deploying a publicly accessible (for the most part) mesh network isn't nefarious by most stretches of the imagination, but there are only so many HAM clubs with a tower they'll let ya use, only so many people who have roof access to tall structures. The rest of the mesh unfortunately has to be handled by portable devices like handhelds, car nodes, and low-level mounted stuff like homes, street poles, trees, etc
If the wrong organizations get tickled the wrong way (or a Mooninite-like panic, etc) all of the sudden it could be a real pain in the ass to keep up a reliable mesh.
robust flax
I'm just going to throw down the obligatory uhh OK bud to all that.
2 , 915 isn't going to be affected by the cell towers.
3 we can just make some orgoneite and put it on the enclosure and that will keep all the harmful 5g at bay
dreamy sapphire
uh, isolating the box wont help much when the radio goes outside it
robust flax
Bro the orgonite makes it safe it's like crystals and stuff
dreamy sapphire
oregon isnt a real place stupid
dreamy sapphire
it's a conspiracy by Big Radio to sell more radios
robust flax
Big radio puts the tower busters out? But there's only two real manufacturers now! It's it the fins or the sweedes?
dreamy sapphire
definitely those dirty swedes
robust flax
I knew it! Probably have those old guys they keep in the lab from nortel working on the plans sounds like something they would do.
robust flax
it's a conspiracy by Big Radio to sell more radios
On the dl the untied states is a small potato's market for both of them. (Sigh)
quaint marlin
is Oregonite like Baofengium
robust flax
I'll have you know General Mao makes a pretty OK radio at a great price
quaint marlin
Mmmm General Mao's Chicken
robust flax
is Oregonite like Baofengium
You need to research orgonite, tower busting and the guys in the white trucks.
quaint marlin
I'm just gonna go ahead and not do that 😄
the guys in the white trucks are everywhere
wide umbra
he's just talking about the white van speaker scam is all
quaint marlin
I remember people trying the speaker scam on me back in the 80's
quaint marlin
I actually did once stick a node on the fence around a tower, which was already on nice high ground. I couldn't get an ACK from a block away. It wasn't clear line of sight but still.
robust flax
I'm sure that fence helped with everything rf related
quaint marlin
you'd think it didn't attenuate the signal THAT badly.
certainly not in all directions
quaint marlin
all accessible to me directions
robust flax
In reality what are we trying to mesh. Or, are we trying to mesh the world
quaint marlin
Meshing the world (figuratively) is not gonna happen with meshtastic. The routing scheme pukes out pretty badly when there are 100+ nodes on a mesh.
At least not until the mythical 3.0 version comes out (in more than a year)
dreamy sapphire
yesterday my wife was like "there's a meshtastic discord?" when I was trying to ping @wide umbra , so I said "yeah its how we talk to each other when our radios arent working"
quaint marlin
but I think the issues are when that 100+ are actually individual people trying to communicate, not necessarily things like static nodes that are effectively just repeaters
I don't think it's really been proven out that a mesh that is 1/2 to 1/3 the size of a metro like MSP would suffer the same issues as the meshtastic meshes in europe that are oversaturated with users
robust flax
Yes everyone wants a node even in poor or over saturated areas
quaint marlin
it's not particularly realistc to get reliable metro-wide coverage without access to several very-tall structures with pretty beefy hardware, but it's definitely doable to cover areas, even in the dense urban areas that don't have a ton of high ground or great repeater locations
the AustinMesh guy has been going about that (many permanent repeaters in high places) route for quite a while and either petered out or failed, it's sorta hard to tell, he fell off the radar a bit.
robust flax
Dense areas don't propagate well. You'll need a proper lower db antenna at appropriate heights to do anything well. Your best bet is mid gain on high ish buildings outside the core and go around
quaint marlin
That's sorta what I've been doing - in my area, making sort of pockets of signal, and providing more powerful stuff to conntect the pockets to each other.
pretty easy to get straight shots down big streets on streetlights, light poles, etc that aren't as bothered by building and home roofs, and miss most of the foliage
My mesh is basically all happening 20-40 feet off the ground, but I have a couple higher ones on the slate that are already built, just need installation.
robust flax
A node on a well selected Minneapolis light pole will get you pretty reasonable coverage
quaint marlin
there are so many variables for placing on light poles too. I assume that if the antenna isn't sticking up above the top you're going to be distorting roughly half of your signal...which makes the street lights that have the curved top less desirable
robust flax
You're over engineering it you can go on the curve with magnets or just up there sure you may block a bit but that's where overlap and meshing come into play. Minneapolis is a prime example with all that wifi they have everywhere I started putting up 14 years ago
Heck, over that
quaint marlin
yeah the poles in mpls are bristling with hardware
I'm a St Paul guy, we like our internet the old fashioned way - slow and shitty
robust flax
Plenty of fiber replacing the lead and paper on the poles and you always have Comcast
dreamy sapphire
I'd rather go back to a CRT monitor than sign up for Comcast
quaint marlin
Fiber stops literally a block from my house
robust flax
I'd rather go back to a CRT monitor than sign up for Comcast
What did they do to you?
dreamy sapphire
they have broadband data caps and constant outages
quaint marlin
and the worst support humanly possible -- and that's from me, a guy who has to deal with Network Solutions on a regular basis.
dreamy sapphire
I wouldnt wish Network Solutions on anybody
quaint marlin
I'll tell you about my latest escapade with them sometime soon but it's still too fresh a wound 😄
robust flax
they have broadband data caps and constant outages
Strange I have super heavy users at home and have had problems with neither.
dreamy sapphire
I used to do contract work for an ISP near here. Broadband data caps are 100% for extra money, and 0% for anything infrastructure related
I will go with a comcast competitor at every opportunity
robust flax
Ooh another usi guy?
dreamy sapphire
No the guys I worked for got bought out and then went under
robust flax
A story as old as time.
As far as going for the little guy I'm all for it but a house has to have the interwebs and nobody is going down the dsl route
robust flax
Whoa, slow down there
dreamy sapphire
Their biggest problem is overprovisioning. SOP when I left (many years ago) was each dslam got 24 gigabit fiber pairs to feed them, and up to 384 customer slots. Bonded customers take too slots, but even if everyone was bonded thats still overprovisioned
robust flax
Well, you have to balance overall bandwidth usage to overprovisioning and come up with a number you're comfortable with or go broke. I'm sure they where on provided circuits and not dark fiber so they could control the thruput
dreamy sapphire
No, 24 pair was sop for new construction for anything fiber to the node. Not sure about GPON, I wasnt on the new construction teams, just did copper upgrades
robust flax
Very nice! Be sure to secure that coax. Some super33 would work great.
quaint marlin
it's been up since january, i'm still toying with raising it up a few more feet to take up the slack
robust flax
A few quick wraps will save that top connection and save any wind wear and noise. It's fun when the wind rips out 18 1-5/8 lines and seeing them float in the wind
quaint marlin
I'll be taking it all down in a week or so to add a 1W PA to it
when I do I'll get 'er all strapped down
I was considering changing over to a 5.8dbi antenna (this is an 8dbi) but I think I'll leave it as-is since it's decent-ish high ground.
robust flax
Is it 50'?
quaint marlin
what, the elevation?
it's a tall-ish 3 story building and the actual antenna is about 12' off the roof, so it's roughly 45 feet I think.
robust flax
I would try the 5.8
quaint marlin
I just set the GPS location on it this evening, so whatever it says there, add about 8 feet to that. It hasn't shown up in my node list at home yet
most of my nodes I leave the GPS disabled/null, but I figure some of these that are static and won't reveal too much info (like where I live) it may benefit the mesh to have GPS coords available
I assume GPS coords are counted into the routing scheme
robust flax
It would be interesting to know that. But it really shouldn't matter since distance doesn't reflect rssi
Infant protocol and all I guess
quaint marlin
it's been around a few years but the use case as an actual off-grid mesh instead of just you and your buddies going camping is relatively new.
so they're learning a bit more about how it behaves in the US and our relatively unique population density/geography when it comes to something like this
that said, the devs (IMO) are in a bit of denial about what a lot of people are using it for, which is the afore-mentioned private/public mesh networks for emergency purposes.
If you're on The Comms Channel discord it's a lot more focused on that use-case (and also everyone there is very chill and helpful)
robust flax
It's all good in the hood.
I did order a few of those wisblocks from Amazon today. Thanks @junior cosmos
quaint marlin
if you need any random cables, hardware, etc let me know before you order. I have a TON of stuff that I'm willing to part with for nothing or next to nothing if it helps the local folks
lots of ipex-to-[whatever] pigtails, random antennas (some really nice, just need the right application), etc
oh and several extra 4W bidirectional amps if you wanted to experiment with one
robust flax
Ooh. Maybe on the base station once I figure out what I want to add to the array
dreamy sapphire
if I put the antenna pigtail on the inside, it rubs on the glass and could pinch
if it's on the outside, it rubs on the window frame and could pinch
dreamy sapphire
spark glen
Oops, forgot to floss. Thanks for reminding me.
dreamy sapphire
😄
robust flax
Is this for a car window?
quaint marlin
yup
more apprproiately, for a car window so that a whole bunch of lossy cable isn't a necessity to mount an antenna discretely outside a vehicle.
I've got several otherwise-great window clips but they all have at least 10 feet of RG174 which is fine for voice comms but death to 915 at such low wattage. However if it's only 6 inches of cable or so (and the node itself were attached to the inside of the window clip) the loss is negligible.
I would just buy the metal ones and re-crimp the coax a lot shorter but I don't have the tools or know-how for that
quaint marlin
8 hours? are you an OTR driver?
quaint marlin
these are all pretty small, 2 3000's, a pile of 2000's and the tiny ones are T-Echo stock batteries
dreamy sapphire
I got a 4 pack of 3000s
quaint marlin
doh!
dreamy sapphire
more than plenty for a pocket node
well, dev node. Its my only board
it floats around doing different roles
robust flax
Might be in for a. Few of those 3k's
dreamy sapphire
My little pigtails are too short for this revision lol. Got some one footers on the way. Also gotta rotate the rak mounting plate, add a place for the ble pcb antenna and enclose it
quaint marlin
Might be in for a. Few of those 3k's
I think I only have 2 3K's most of the stack are 2K's
also have a 5200mah 2x18650 pack that's wired for wisblocks
robust flax
Or that. Either way. Wis blocks on their way
dreamy sapphire
@quaint marlin Thanks for those JST cables, I was able to canninalize it
Perhaps reprint this to fit
quaint marlin
interesting, the wis starter kits from amazon come with an sma pigtail and right angle antenna
nice little bonus
RP-SMA...oh well
spark glen
RP-SMA...oh well
ohffs
spark glen
Looks like his came with BT, the standard pcb, and a stubby
dreamy sapphire
Theres a pcb antenna for bluetooth and lora
Looks like he just got the btle pcb antenna
And a stick for lora
quaint marlin
yeah it did
the stubby is... well... it's ok. SWR'ing around 2.4
I'm obviously not gonna use it but it's the thought that counts. I may use the pigtail
spark glen
Bet it measures well at 2.4ghz
quaint marlin
it'll measure the inside of my junk drawer 😄
dreamy sapphire
See if its in the radio report github
Probably is, and probably not recommended for use
quaint marlin
I measured it with my nano, it's around 2.4 SWR at 915.
Not terrible, could certainly be used, but there are a bazillion better options.
Sorry, I misunderstood that you meant at 2.4ghz
I didn't try it as a BLE antenna. So far every time I've experimented to use a lora antenna for BLE I get pretty terrible results.
spark glen
I didn't try it as a BLE antenna. So far every time I've experimented to use a l...
But if it's RP-SMA, it might be a 2.4ghz WiFi antenna, useful for BT.
quaint marlin
there's plenty of RP-SMA's for lora - it's actually the industry standard for some reason. Most meshtastic devices seem to not use RP.
I think most hardware that has an SMA output built into the PCB seem to use RP, as well as most available magnetic antenna bases and cables made specifically for lora stuff like those helium mining rigs
Unless there's a technical reason it seems like a weird design decision to put the pin (the part that can break) on the expensive hardware.
quaint marlin
so I think I've just decided to put a G2 on top of the building I've got roof access to in lowertown St Paul. Should theoretically give reasonable coverage for most if not all of Woodbury, Oakdale, and large swaths of the East Side and Maplewood
robust flax
Lower town with height to get over the bluff?
The only building I can think of that would cover that would be 1300 Wilson or frost pha
quaint marlin
no, I was actually misremembering the coverage area. I have another spot that can get the east side/burbs, I have to dig through my notes.
the spot in lowertown will get this coverage (roughly)
The reason I'm tempted to do a G2 there is because they seem to be able to out-do the coverage maps
I would like to get a corridor out to Cottage Grove where I've got a friend who would like to be on the mesh
that gets me close-ish but it'd be a bit of a pain for me to go out there and scope for midpoint node placements
quaint marlin
The only building I can think of that would cover that would be 1300 Wilson or f...
1300 wilson would be a great drone drop. Looks like there's not much on the roof
quaint marlin
I just tried something new. I called the leasing number on a eight story building in Roseville, and talked with the owner. He's going to let me put a node on the roof even though I don't rent at the building, for $200 for an entire year
quaint marlin
correction it's a 6 story building but still
that's six more stories above ground level than i had access to yesterday
wide umbra
what's the coverage look like from there?
quaint marlin
i'm on my phone so i don't have easy access to HWT at the moment
wide umbra
Dm me the addy and i can post it
look at that coverage down in burnsville!
how aggressive can you get with a pole on the roof for even more height?
quaint marlin
I haven't been up there to see what my options are. When I get up there I'll know.
a lot of buildings already have some antenna masts and/or old antennas that are no longer in use, which is the case on my roseville rental space
quaint marlin
This is the HWT map of the address
@dreamy sapphire this may even give you some modicum of coverage!
dreamy sapphire
fingers crossed!
quaint marlin
here is a composite (a crude one I quickly made in photoshop) of what my node network "should" cover within the next week or two:
at least two of those nodes will be G2's, which will most likely help things out, possibly even exceed the LOS results.
and at least two of the existing ones that are already up will become amplified (just not G2's) which will also help
there are a few not shown in the composite yet that I'll update when I get installs in there
I have a friend who manages commercial property that is gonna let me do some roof nodes in St Paul and in the North Loop
no insane altitudes, but should at least help get more coverage
dreamy sapphire
Theres a tbeam in mounds view that might be able to reach that, if I can talk to that then we'll finally have a connection
quaint marlin
my roseville office is my northernmost node and that will be getting a boost soon. Not only an amp but I'm gonna try my luck at raising it up another 5-6 feet 😄
quaint marlin
no need to apologize, that's awesome!
dreamy sapphire
I got a 5 pack of 1 watt panels and some 3000mah batteries
quaint marlin
have you tried a clip in your car window yet?
dreamy sapphire
yeah, gotta wait for the 1 foot pigtails to really see
but so far they at least hang on when parked. I plan to beef them up substantially
quaint marlin
you are probably gonna have to protect those pigtails somehow so they don't get direct sunlight
even if it's just spray paint or something
dreamy sapphire
do they break down in UV
quaint marlin
I assume so, they aren't really meant to be exposed to the elements
dreamy sapphire
quaint marlin
I suppose there's a chance that they're made with UV resistant material but it would be by blind luck
dreamy sapphire
theres the old prototype
dreamy sapphire
yeah its somewhere
quaint marlin
If I did you may want to use that, it won't catch as much wind.
a lot less stress on the clip
dreamy sapphire
yeah that was just the one on hand lol
quaint marlin
and it's a surprisingly capable antenna
I was only half-joking when I suggested you could use like, flex-seal or plastidip to water/UV proof the cable and boot that's exposed to the elements.
dreamy sapphire
thats a problem for future infered
there are sma extension cables that are coated in FEP, which is extremely UV resistant
those clear ones where you see the copper are nearly all FEP
quaint marlin
I have a lot of those, incuding bulkhead ones
in fact I have like a 9" one if you wanted to try using it
dreamy sapphire
your biggest threat would be the wind itself then
some kind of printed armor is probably necessary
quaint marlin
yeah, some sort of support, perhaps an aerofoil, or both?
dreamy sapphire
I was gonna just do a printed box that clips on with compliance
hook up sma extender, clip on armor, done and dusted
robust flax
Well, I tried to bang out a few hellos and tests today on my way through town. No replies I feel I'm on an island
quaint marlin
Welcome to meshtastic 😄
I did see someone say something in #LongFast a few days ago but they were in a car and by the time I saw the message it was hours that had gone by.
we ain't in the UK where there's dozens of people on the mesh at any one time. I've been building this mesh now for 9 months and I've literally ever spoken with one person I didn't already know via meshtastic, and it was @dreamy sapphire
it will grow and improve, but also as the mesh gets more coverage it will become more normal to have actual availability to the point where one could actually carry on a conversation while driving a reasonable distance in the metro
quaint marlin
Well, I tried to bang out a few hellos and tests today on my way through town. ...
Did you get any ACKs? (not sure if you were using the android or IOS app)
quaint marlin
yeah if it got the check mark that means a node picked it up
unfortunately that's all the info you'll really get
spark glen
How many nodes on your list?
quaint marlin
the thing about meshtastic is that the mesh when you send the message is the mesh you get.
sadly an ACK doesn't mean anyone actually saw it, only that a device did (and therefore most likely also re-broadcasted it to whatever other nodes that device was within range of)
robust flax
How many nodes on your list?
Picked up 4 today. But after I was done with my job I threw a 12" cell whip on so not much testing
robust flax
sadly an ACK doesn't mean anyone actually saw it, only that a device did (and th...
That's what I figure.
quaint marlin
to do much more than random range testing between nodes there needs to be a critical mass of nodes (and peppered with some higher power nodes in good places).
robust flax
I can throw it on my helium miner setup if I wanted but then I need to change it the coax I have pretty darn good coverage here with that. So this should be similar
quaint marlin
they operate on the same bands
MSP actually has a pretty decent chance of having metro-wide coverage of some sort, which would, as far as I know, make it the best coverage in the US. All we need is for some folks west of 35W to start putting up nodes! 😄
robust flax
I can cover a bit of that
I wish we had and existing coverage map somehow. Like if you could plot to a map
War driving style
dreamy sapphire
If your node has mqtt backhaul to the public server they show up on meshmap for a while
At least if the nodes it pings have gps chips anyway. I dont think it'll triangulate rough coords
robust flax
Mqtt is cheating
dreamy sapphire
Thats how meshmap gets its info though
robust flax
Well what's your thoughts on mqtt running on home nodes
dreamy sapphire
I think mqtt is a valid backhaul while the mesh is built up
Radio purists hate it, but frankly without mqtt backhaul there'd just be less users
quaint marlin
I hate it too, but I don't hate TCC's BBS
as an old guy, this very much tickles me
dreamy sapphire
once we get a solid mesh going I'd be happy to host one
quaint marlin
hell yes
I really think we're weeks from having a solid mesh
the upcoming influx of G2 nodes I feel is really going to boost mesh quality
dreamy sapphire
them G2s look stellar
quaint marlin
it won't be perfect by any means but hell I'll have 5
they are still in stock!
65 still left!!
they are basically a cheat code for meshtastic, I wouldn't be surprised if a G2 on both sides of the metro mesh and @junior cosmos 's Isanti mesh would actually be able to communicate
I'd be glad to loan/sell one of mine to test that theory out.
the 4 that i ordered are supposed to get here July 24
gonna put one in my other car, one at home and most likely one in roseville, leaving one spare that could be loaned out
having a G2 in a car is ridiculous, but it's also a place for them to shine. They are power-hungry so they are not great for remote/solar installations. But in a car you all of the sudden become a power-node, boosting the mesh wherever you may be, plus of course your own comms which are just bonkers. I've had 7mi pings.
obviously the ACK didn't happen because the poor node on the other side of it was like "sorry bruh I'm but a wee wisblock"
but with enough powerful nodes around, the mesh will make up for that kind of imbalance
dreamy sapphire
I bet a G2 on 65&125th would just hurl packets all the way to Isanti
quaint marlin
it might throw them so hard that Isanti itself falls down
I'm glad I don't have any more income expected until next week or I'd probably have already ordered like 5 more
dreamy sapphire
I wish I had the cashmoney to throw at new hardware
quaint marlin
you gotta try being old and not having any kids or other expenses! 😄
quaint marlin
I mean that's not fair, I pay a mortgage and for a pretty big office, but that's literally about it, besides general life shit
plus there's tons of other bills you don't REALLY need to pay, like student loans and health insurance
dreamy sapphire
my stepdad tanked his credit score because he didnt pay his student loans lol
quaint marlin
oh you're looking at the Butch Cassidy of not paying student loans
(not my own, mind you, my wife's)
I spent about 3 months in college and knew immediately I'd rather be working.
I was lucky enough to be into computers when I was a kid in the 80's, so I had a big head start, and when I got into my career field there literally wasn't a such thing as school for it.
I do feel for the younger generations though, for real. It sucks that the school industry figured out how to siphon money out of everyone in order to oversaturate the market(s) for IT, creative, development, etc
I like to think that as a genx'er with a conscience at least I didn't do the same ladder-pulling that my parents' generation did.
(my parents specifically mostly excluded, as they are both educators, which sorta get a pass)
robust flax
I thought that angry guy with dimmentia paid everyone's student loans?
dreamy sapphire
only federal loans, not private ones, and the courts blocked it from happening again
robust flax
Geez! There should be a law!
dreamy sapphire
Now I gotta find a solar charge controller (maybe I'll rip up a cheap solar light)
And fix the print file so the solar panel actually fits
dreamy sapphire
Eek, this "5v" panel is topping out at close to 7 in full sun
robust flax
Do they really not have any overhead in that 5v solar input?
dreamy sapphire
robust flax
I mean it's it really the max? I can see don't slap 12v on there but 6/7v probably no probs
dreamy sapphire
It did run at 7 but I'd rather not chance it
I'll probably just slap a voltage regulator on it
robust flax
Plus if you have the battery connected it won't probably go that high with a load
dreamy sapphire
Some revisions of the rak series would work fine at higher voltages for a while and eventually get cooked
robust flax
Was it 7v no battery or 7v with the battery
dreamy sapphire
7v no battery
robust flax
Gotta give it something to push into.
dreamy sapphire
4.5v in a slightly cloudy full sun
I'll stick it outside and see if the battery goes up
65% at 1558
66% 
robust flax
67?
dreamy sapphire
No it got too cloudy and my part of the townhome only gets good sun in the morning
robust flax
67 should get you through the night! After that your panel should peek you right back up
dreamy sapphire
Its a 3000mah battery, with bluetooth it should keep it up for a day or two
If I disable BT it'll run for days and days
The finished enclosure will have the type c port exposed for juicing it back up
quaint marlin
if that's wisblock you will get more than a week out of 3000mah
BLE shouldn't use much juice
dreamy sapphire
yeah my wisblock is my only lora board
quaint marlin
that's a pretty sweet panel, might be fun to build that into things, maybe make a RAK clone
I hate that the big RAK's are 45 bucks a piece and take forever to arrive
dreamy sapphire
yeah came in a 5 pack
I should get some JST crimper set
I would genuinely love for this project to be a 3 piece at most print that's compatible with a lot of boards
wisblocks for sure cuz thats all I have
junior cosmos
Okay so currently working on setting up TC2 BBS on a couple rpi’s and heltec v3’s to be placed at home and work in conjunction with the solar nodes. The only thing I’ll have to setup is a private mqtt server in my homelab to backhaul the north city to the north sticks. Lol
robust flax
Well I hope the rocks and cows have the need to text..
The private mqtt server... it's the normal mqtt traffic not encrypted?
junior cosmos
You have encrypt mqtt traffic.
I just don’t want to be on the public mqtt server but I still want to be able to reach my nodes that are too far from each other.
Plus that way I can keep both TC2 BBS’ synchronized
robust flax
Tc2 bbs?!
@quaint marlin What swr meter are you using? I saw you mentioned that. I don't have an anritsu anymore so nothing that I have would work
dreamy sapphire
never heard of the TC2 BBS?
It's a BBS software for meshtastic. Pretty swanky
I plan to spin one up if I can get a mesh connection with Brew
robust flax
Well, if I could only get a mesh...
dreamy sapphire
yeah, stuck on mqtt until we grow the network bigger
quaint marlin
<@708792125117956157> What swr meter are you using? I saw you mentioned that. ...
There is a nice step-by-step video specifically for setting up a preset to test SWR in the LoRa frequency range:
robust flax
Sigh, it will be here in the morning
quaint marlin
yeah the buy-in is a little higher if you're not just slapping a Heltec into a case 😄
the only hardware that's "needed" for advanced-ish stuff with MT is one of those, and an SDR, which are also cheap (RTL-SDR)
robust flax
I mean I have another big dbi antenna I was going to deploy at my mom's sitting there so I'll go grab it. I'm having a hard time swallowing it when I can't see anyone
quaint marlin
I spent like 5 months not seeing anyone. Turned out I was not on the same frequency as everyone else and I didn't realize it.
robust flax
What where you on?
quaint marlin
I had to SDR it to find out!
If you replaced the stock channels with your own channels, and all of the sudden LongFast was not the Primary Channel, your frequency slot gets assigned (without informing you of this...) based on the name of your primary channel.
robust flax
Ooh. Yeah I saw that easily fixed on the PC
quaint marlin
long story short, you can set your "Frequency Slot" to 20 in LoRa Settings and that will force the issue.
I was on 26.
I had no idea, because it literally doesn't tell you what slot you're on in the interface for iOS or Mac.
and the "IT'S IN THE DOCUMENTATION" crowd of course had to holler that at me.
robust flax
Seems like an easy fix for the apps
quaint marlin
but it's not even remotely obvious that it's happened when it does happen.
because it displays that you're on Slot 0.... uhhh no yer not.
so anyways, try forcing Slot 20.
Not the "frequency override" but "frequency slot"
what area of town are you in?
if you are setting up a home HQ node I have several extra 4W amps that work great for non-solar nodes like home or car nodes that give you a BIG boost in receive and send power. Chances are you'll pick people up even if you're in an unfortunate topopgraphical location.
robust flax
Yeah that might help. I'm in an actually good ish area my helium does pretty well and that was what I was basing eveyting on
quaint marlin
I'm not sure what wattage helium miners use, likely 1W if I had to guess.
Either way, the actual output wattage of most MT nodes is .25
so you can imagine, it won't get through much foliage or buildings, etc.
I'm happy to hook you up with an amp and the jumper cables to hook it up. Trade ya for a case of beer.
robust flax
Not a drinker but just name what you want
quaint marlin
Let me know when/where you want to swap. I'm pretty booked up this weekend but any time next week I can meet up somewhere central-ish. The beer is a figure of speech.
I'll bring a pile of other parts and whatnot that you may find useful for building out nodes.
robust flax
Cool, I'm pretty open for late night adventures and or anything
dreamy sapphire
Need to extend the hangers to clear the solar panel housing, add a hole for the ipex pigtail, add a locating pin for the armor plate, and find a better ipex clip system for routing around the glass
Overall, starting to come together
quaint marlin
Cool, I'm pretty open for late night adventures and or anything
I'm generally most available during the day but I'm self-employed so I know that doesn't work as well for everyone.
robust flax
I'm generally most available during the day but I'm self-employed so I know that...
I'm all over it's all good you're up in the northeast right?
quaint marlin
Yeah, St. Paul, Roseville, Northeast Minneapolis on occasion
quaint marlin
but really I can go anywhere that's not like way the F out like maple grove, plymouth, eden prairie, burnsville, etc
dreamy sapphire
I can confirm brew did no murdering during our meetup
wide umbra
I'd be more concerned for brew since he's meeting @robust flax
quaint marlin
How do we know that @dreamy sapphire isn't just a @quaint marlin sock puppet account, and is actually buried in his yard.
it's OK, I will only meet @robust flax in a well-lit public place. I'm but a frail, unarmed weakling 😄
OH btw - I talked with the building owner today (for a long, long time - he's very old and really likes to jabber) .. I'm officially signing a lease at that building specifically to put a node on the roof.
so I'm gonna say it'll probably be in writing, and then online within the next week or so.
wide umbra
What's the site access gonna look like? Can you get up there occasionally for maintenance / tuning?
robust flax
i am in desperate need of an f-rp-sma- m sma adapter sigh
this liligo is sma and everything else seems to be rp-sma
or, not i had the right cable in my work truck
So, lilgo supreme running on A 8DB rokland up now,
no one on my list but i'm seeing airutltx N CHnnl utx so hmm
quaint marlin
What's the site access gonna look like? Can you get up there occasionally for ma...
Yeah, should be able to
dreamy sapphire
brew you motherfucker /s
making the antenna taller turned into a classic Door Problem
quaint marlin
uh oh, did you snap the holder off when closing the door?
dreamy sapphire
no it's just so much cad compared to everything else
the smallest feature is like 50% of the total work
quaint marlin
ahhhh
you should test it first and make sure you even need to do all that extra work
dreamy sapphire
I think there will be about 1cm of unarmored cable
very close to the glass, should be fine
dreamy sapphire
gotta be thin or it wont fit between the glass and the door
older cars have more leeway there
thicker rubber gaskets
quaint marlin
Speaking of gaskets, before I started down the road of the window clips I found a place that makes basically a window-top gasket made specifically for passthru of much larger cables
I got a length of it, it's pretty sweet, but it will basically mean you've got a big fat roll of like LM200 somewhere in the car
it's not ugly or anything but the magnet roof mounts sorta are.
dreamy sapphire
if I sit my ass down and learn fusion I could probably whip up a solar sharkfin node
quaint marlin
especially since if you put it anywhere but right at the edge of the car body you've got a bunch of cable just slappin' around in the wind
dreamy sapphire
or maybe just gut one of these
quaint marlin
ngl, completed sharkfin nodes colored to match your car would probably sell like hotcakes
bluetooth may be an issue getting through the metal of the car but should work in most cases
throw like a 2000mah battery in there, a little solar panel (if that's what that window is for) and bend a Gizont antenna up into that fin, assuming it's hollow
dreamy sapphire
heres as it stands
armor is as pictured previously, small gap where it'll be taught
I dont think those solar panels would hold up very long
thats bitty
wind power
robust flax
so, how much solar do you get thru the glass with the uv coating?
dreamy sapphire
Not a clue
Tiny bit of freeway noise leaking, but it does hold rock solid at 70mph
robust flax
pick up anyone new?
dreamy sapphire
Nope, out near Dayton rn. Dont expect to hear anyone on the way back either
Oh wait, maybe. I have mqtt on so its a bit weird
But code fox is a new one for me. 7 hops away
quaint marlin
7 hops!
holy shit that is an insane amount of hops to actually pick up from! (assuming it's all radio and no MQTT)
I have all my nodes set to 7 hops, never had anything more than 2 so far, even in node discovery
quaint marlin
so, how much solar do you get thru the glass with the uv coating?
I could be wrong but panels don't really care about UV, do they? I'll be curious to see how it works. My gut feeling is that it will pick up power provided the window isn't too tinted. Will it be enough to keep up a 3000mah charge? If you park outdoors, probably.
I was running my G2 car node off of a battery (charged while driving) for a while to act as a jump-off point for my home HQ node. It did work, but being in the topographical bowl I am in, it wasn't earth-shattering. I get better results having a streetlight node 30ft high and another one reachable within 1/2 mile
there's only so much that can be done at ground level, of course.
dreamy sapphire
UV energy is 25% of the solar energy that hits the earth at most. Most panels are tuned to the visible wavelength as thats where the lions share of the solar energy resides
A UVB resistant window shouldnt inhibit it very much
I parked with it facing the sun, I'll see if it goes above 60% in a few hours
quaint marlin
as long as you don't park in a garage and a parking ramp (point A and point B) I'd imagine it will be fine
dreamy sapphire
And while it works on the road and probably in the rain, I wouldnt recommend a car wash with this gizmo
quaint marlin
yeah that was the coolest part of my NMO mount rigs, I took them through the car wash regularly and no negative effect
but the cable loss and poor antenna placement took their toll
they are fine for GMRS which is what I'm using them for now, because I shove 25W through them.
dreamy sapphire
Once I get my solar node out of my system I'll redesign it as a plain jane SMA/N type clip thing
Learning a lot about the design with this tangent project
quaint marlin
this is why this particular niche hobby is fun. There's not a ton of "been there, done that" surrounding it
dreamy sapphire
Plays VERY well with a 3D printing hobby
quaint marlin
and yeah it does. I own exactly two injection-molded nodes (Bandit) and they weren't designed to be nodes initially
re: rain -- I've been in some very heavy rain at highway speeds with my metal window clips, and zero hint of even the slightest leaks. That said both of my cars are old enough to vote, so YMMV
dreamy sapphire
How thick are the rubber weather seals? I've seen some cars with absolute pool noodle kinds. Mine is very thin on my volvo
quaint marlin
I don't really know how to describe them other than "normal".
the window ones tend to be pretty thin.
dreamy sapphire
I'd want it as universal as possible. I could probably make it pointy rather than flat on top
quaint marlin
I did a ton of work (including seals) on my '88 VW cabriolet and those were pretty thick all around compared to any modern ones I've seen, because they were pressure-dependent.
pointy (or tapered) on top will definitely help
but then you run into that being easily the weakest point of the entire thing
dreamy sapphire
I've been keeping angles square because its easier to make them thicker, wider etc before a chamfer goes on
Laziness ftw, maybe
dreamy sapphire
but then you run into that being easily the weakest point of the entire thing
PLA is tougher than you think. PETG even more so
quaint marlin
the other thing you could do is do 3dp inside and outside and use a simple metal clip (yet to be found) as the window interface
dreamy sapphire
Metal would solve my problems, but I do not have a plasma cutter or a brake press
robust flax
what are you drawing with?
dreamy sapphire
Sketchup 
robust flax
fun..
dreamy sapphire
I dont like fusion because I dont understand it
And I havent popped an adderall and grinded it out
quaint marlin
use tinkercad you cowards 😉
robust flax
trying to get me to hang myself i see
quaint marlin
I can't get past the thought that there's some common metal clip that I've seen at Menards or Ax-Man or something that would be able to act as the metal hanger
no idea what it is, but it's gotta exist
robust flax
so, you don't have a metal hanger?
robust flax
2 pairs or pliers and some flat stock?
quaint marlin
could do it from the thin aluminum stock at menards
brake press may be overkill
all of that will still require some snip work, which could be annoying
unless you use thin bar stock
my original drone carry hook was just gonna be bent aluminum bar stock
robust flax
a dremel!
dreamy sapphire
What about aluminum siding or rain gutter?
Thin stuff. I could cnc that
Bend it with a printed jig
robust flax
you know they sell varying thicknesses of metals you could do anything with
robust flax
i think what you're looking for is using beercans
quaint marlin
now we're back to the tin snips 😄
robust flax
utility knife
spark glen
Teeth
quaint marlin
will you PLEASE let me use my snips?!
robust flax
you an hvac guy or somthin'?
quaint marlin
no, just did too much tin snipping on aluminum flashing trying to replicate a plastic rain tray that was no longer made for 88 VW's
and damnit I did it!
quaint marlin
but that's all I've ever used the turn-specific ones for
but yeah the thin bar stock they have at menards (or hell, even a steel or aluminum yardstick) maye be the solution here.
dreamy sapphire
I do have an aluminum yardstick I dont use anymore
Not even a good straightedge, I think it got bent
quaint marlin
bend it more
dreamy sapphire
Frankly I was gonna have chatgpt find me the springback angle, print a jig thats that amount sharper than it has to be and just clamp it
Then it pops out of the clamps and whammo, perfect shape
quaint marlin
that would be the 2020's way - design something and send it to PCBway
you'll have 20 of them back in 3 days
dreamy sapphire
Thats not frugal
quaint marlin
then yardstick it is!
dreamy sapphire
Yardstick it is!
quaint marlin
you maaaaay want to consider going to axman and getting some thin foam for BOTH sides of a clip like that. Window glass ain't cheap.
the magnets I got for my magnodes came with an excellent circular cutout of high density foam between each of them, it'd be perfect for something like that.
that said, it would actually be difficult to get aluminum to get enough spring in it to really cause trouble enough to scratch a window, so you will likely be OK
but it would cut down on "chatter" when going fast.
dreamy sapphire
The clicky antenna in my printed window mount was actually rock solid
The bendy one you gave me went like a wiggly arm tube man
quaint marlin
oddly, those gizonts are STILL good when bent.
they are almost cheating.
they still have a great SWR when bent, even almost into a loop
quaint marlin
you could make an infinity sign out of Gizonts and communicate across dimensions
PRAISE GIZONT
that may actually be my favorite stupid chinese brand name.
Gizont. It's not quite a word, but there it is... a word.
dreamy sapphire
Gizo'nt
quaint marlin
oh no you gizont
plus it reminds me of my all-time favorite movie, Gizmo! (1977)
if you have an hour fifteen to spare, this is how to spend it.
quaint marlin
I assume the window crushed it?
robust flax
Carwash testing didn't go well?
dreamy sapphire
Window crushed. Didnt dare even try the carwash lol. Maybe a TPU part for there
Tpu is nice and squishy
robust flax
mmm i like squshy things
dreamy sapphire
Lets keep things PG 
robust flax
Well, pla anyways. Pla+ may hold but petg abs and Asa would be fine
dreamy sapphire
I planned to use ASA in the end ye
Petg would hold up in MN, but if I end up getting a solid design that sells I'd like it to work in other states
In gooder news, solar panel totally works in the car
dreamy sapphire
ab0lv set up a BBS and it's on mqtt. A few teething problems, but cant wait to futz with it once its stable
msh/US/MN
junior cosmos
So with driving the shit show that is 65 I have picked up quite a few node between me and you @dreamy sapphire with having to take detours and what not.
robust flax
Nice!
dreamy sapphire
Another addition to your collection :)
My node is off for maintenance so you probably didnt pick me up
junior cosmos
So looks to be 3 just west of 65.
Gonna need to convince people to put outdoor solar nodes on 40’+ masts lol
dreamy sapphire
I wish my hoa would let me put up a 40 foot mast
robust flax
I wish my hoa would let me put up a 40 foot mast
Your attic bro
dreamy sapphire
Townhome, cant do shit
quaint marlin
@junior cosmos this you??
my timestamps are all wack, but this is the first time I've seen it
is claimed to be 2 hops away
I've picked up the iPTT one as well
or is that the same one... GAH I hate how clunky the mac app is
ok WTF I just did a traceroute on that and I got DIRECT.
are you in an airplane?! 😄
and yah I just did a test DM and got an ACK right away. Are you in my neck of the woods or really in Isanti?
or like... literally in my yard?
dreamy sapphire
quaint marlin
Worth a try!
I suspect it would suffer without amplification, but it'd be an interesting experiment
dreamy sapphire
I mean, cut the end off, reterminate, mount board right there
I dont have $60 to spend on a science experiment though, so this product will have to wait
quaint marlin
I love throwing money at this kinda thing. I'll buy that tomorrow and see how it works.
wide umbra
IT'S MY DOPAMINE AND I WANT IT NOWWWW
quaint marlin
I'm just going to take a wild guess that the center frequency isn't where we want it, but only (several) ways to find out
dreamy sapphire
I was trying to find one of these with just an N type or SMA connector on each end but couldnt find one
I presume there's some fuckery in the induction that changes depending on the antenna tuning
quaint marlin
most radio-related sites are made for boomers on CRT monitors
surprised they don't have these on them still:
dreamy sapphire
coming to antenna websites near you!
wide umbra
adjacent
dreamy sapphire
besides that one zoomed out picture I cant find any other pics of it
quaint marlin
Yeah I've got my doubts as to its viability with MT but I can try it with several different power of nodes and see what sticks (no pun intended)
I'd imagine it will work fine with a G2 and probably a Bandit
dreamy sapphire
that with a G2 could make a fantastic car node
quaint marlin
only thing is that G2's are sorta clunky/ugly and would probably do well to be in an enclosure of some sort
they are a finished product but look very much "form follows function" - like it's not really a finished product but a bunch of well-made circuitboards bolted together.
mine lives under my front seat, and I think when I toss one in the PIlot it'll go in that little hatch I showed you, where the current node lives.
dreamy sapphire
@quaint marlin would you be willing to put a protractor to your amazon window clip and tell me the angle?
quaint marlin
hmmm
I'd have to go buy a protractor.
lemme take a look and see if my wife's got one, she might
dreamy sapphire
guesstimations would probably be fine
I'm just shite at figuring out angles by eye
wide umbra
i just put a protractor to the screen, it's about 110*
dreamy sapphire
quaint marlin
may I suggest a second hole (same size) at the end of the slot, not far from the current hole?
maybe even bigger
big enough to alow a male SMA end through.
that can make using patch cables possible, no crimping, etc needed
robust flax
Sma is a connector. The same one on your pigtail.
dreamy sapphire
yeah, but the groove in the middle is perfectly measured to my ipex pigtails, which are thicker than some other ipex pigtails I got
I should have asked how thick his sma patch cables are
quaint marlin
I would assume RG174 or RG178, both are thin-ish cables
I believe RG174 is 1/10" thick
and RG178 is thicker than that, maybe 1/8 or 1/6.. I'd have to bust out the calipers but those are on the gun bench right now
if you can, I'd definitely make the top of the "saddle" where it sits on the window, rounded and tapered if possible
quaint marlin
I'm just thinking give it every chance to get all up-ins the window gasket
maybe instead of it being as narrow as it is, have the part that is the "window saddle" (making up terms here) be really thin BUT be really wide and it gets strength that way.
might make printing it difficult, that's the part I don't know anything about
dreamy sapphire
thats my idea for the solar node, since the panel horizontally is quite wide
printing may be difficult, but doable
quaint marlin
I'm literally picturing an upside down taco shell that has a tab on the inside for the node mount, and a tab for the antenna, but make it all smoothed out so that there aren't any sharp lines to catch wind/water/dust and act as stress points
dreamy sapphire
because I print these brackets 'sideways' it'll have decent strength
the biggest risk is layer seperation which is perpendicular to the window's long side, very little stresses
junior cosmos
<@324803515065303040> this you??
Sorry yeah iPTT is the same as 2b38.
I was in your neck of the woods at the job and the node was in my work truck.
I just noticed now that I’m now back at the shop and heading home now.
quaint marlin
OK gotcha..figured you must have been in the area, no way was I getting a 30+ mile direct connection every time 😄
drive safe, looking nasty toward the north
dreamy sapphire
my internet got knocked out for about 2 minutes already
quaint marlin
new bandit, and the custom cable I had made for it!
intent is to make it work with that metal clip for the time being - bandit is a very light piece of equipment so I'm just gonna let it dangle once I have modified the clip to allow passthru of the SMA male end on the other side.
if if proves to be a formidable mobile node I'll bug ya to make a little basket like the one I was chatting with you about before @dreamy sapphire
dreamy sapphire
if you can draw it, I can print it
quaint marlin
I need to find a couple thin fender washers with the ID of a SMA female, and sandwich them on each side of the clip to hold the antenna cable.
junior cosmos
Dude weather was terrifying till a got further north.
But all Gucci now.
I’m gonna be making my portable node the t-beam from the lilygo 1.6 because it has a better radio and gps so I won’t need to always have my phone connected to Bluetooth for timestamps to be sorta okay. Gps makes a world of difference for timestamps.
dreamy sapphire
I got a cheap drone from my dad that sucks and is terrible
so I figure I'll fly that around a bit, see if I can make it work for anything
if not, harvest for parts
junior cosmos
Harvesting parts is always nice!
dreamy sapphire
Its got gps, maybe its MT compatible
and if I dont have the heart to take it apart, I'll just tape an MT node to it and hover it as high as it goes
quaint marlin
honestly, the hovering tactic is probably incredible.
If you can hover 300ft up it's the same (actually better, temporarily) than a building of the same height because there's no concrete and steel blocking the signal "on the way down" so to speak.
If the drone has the ability to go to a point and just stay there, I'd say it IS a MT node, it just needs its own dedicated node stuck to it. Throw it up as a repeater, let it go to 300-400 feet, and see what kind of nodes you pick up
I've got a t-echo you could fool around with for that, it's already got a clip on the back so literally all you'd need to do is rubber band or tie it to the belly and take off.
robust flax
If 300' is good 600' is better!
junior cosmos
whoa whoa whoa 399' 😉
wide umbra
whoa whoa whoa 399' 😉
*399'
dreamy sapphire
295 when on sale
robust flax
400' above existing structure.. there's plenty of 1200' towers around
robust flax
need to make a hook deal for an aluminum "T" tyle light pole
quaint marlin
I have done some noodling on non-magnetic pole mounting ideas.
Nothing produced yet though
I actually think the "slap bracelet" concept has legs, I just have to find the right material (I mean, besides just buying a bulk package of actual slap bracelets) so I can try something out.
They even have them that are already covered in a grippy silicone, which may or may not aid mounting.
for a "T" style pole I think a double hook would probably be the way to go. Could do one big wide hook (and I'm talking no wider than the node enclosure itself)
got a pic of the pole, or one like it?
BTW I'm going in today to sign the lease on the roof node spot in Roseville! 😄
I'm not bringing any hardware or anything but if it's not raining I'll see if they can take me up there to take some pics of possible mounting locations.
quaint marlin
btw @dreamy sapphire I ordered one of those induction antennas, we'll see when it gets here how it goes!
I assume it can't even really be SWR'd until it's actually hooked up to the car, as I'm sure the glass has something to say about the SWR value
quaint marlin
Just ordered a big dawg antenna (40" 8dbi) from rokland for the roseville new node... muuuhahaha
Also @dreamy sapphire have you seen this site?
https://wifiexpert.us/customRFCable.php
I've already had several cables made and shipped, they rule. You can even get the skinny IPEX stuff made. Having a 1.37 cable made right now for a window clip. 7", N Bulkhead to SMA male... less than 7 bucks!
They're actually in the US (L.A. area) , shipping is fast and cheap, cables are made to order.
dreamy sapphire
I misplaced the bag of screws and misc that my wisblock came with
quaint marlin
Having purchased like 30 wisblocks I've got ...let's just say a LOT of those if you need any.
quaint marlin
Not fully 30 yet but at least 20.
wide umbra
my first one was DOA
quaint marlin
I've never had an issue with any of them, but it seems like if they ever get bricked for any reason it can oten be re-animated by re-seating the radio unit to the mainboard.
junior cosmos
So since moving from the lilygo ttgo 1.6 to the lilygo t-beam. I get stronger signal then before and having the gps o. The node itself makes everything just work timestamps etc. I have been trying to have it map my path that I take when I drive with the phone gps and never worked. Now it does.
dreamy sapphire
@quaint marlin Do those baggies have M2.5 screws and nuts in them?
quaint marlin
So since moving from the lilygo ttgo 1.6 to the lilygo t-beam. I get stronger si...
I've got another t-beam that I would part with if you wanted another for a project. Already built, including a 3DP case
quaint marlin
<@708792125117956157> Do those baggies have M2.5 screws and nuts in them?
I don't know, I have never measured them. What is the purpose of the screw?
I don't recall any of mine having matching screws and nuts though, in fact I can't think of any that come with nuts, period.
dreamy sapphire
The mounting holes on the board are M2.5
I want to mount it to a printer case, but I guess I'll use my M2 supply and tighten it down enough for no wiggle
quaint marlin
ah. Yeah and the thread pitch is different for various mounting board solutions.
that's why RAK's enclosures come with thier own screw sets
I ended up just buying a bunch of cheap screw and standoff sets from amazon so I have piles of all options
dreamy sapphire
I think I can make M2s work with enough washers
quaint marlin
and yes spacers and washers (especially spacers) are SUPER handy
dreamy sapphire
I got a multipack of M2, M3 and M4 bolts nuts and washers a while ago
Super handy for a 3d printing hobby
quaint marlin
could print your own spacers 😉
dreamy sapphire
The M3 go like hotcakes, gotta order more
wide umbra
https://www.mcmaster.com/ is your friend
dreamy sapphire
My wife would murder me if she found out I mortgaged the house to order Mcmastercarr M3 bolts 💀
wide umbra
psh you'll need them eventually and the volume pays for itself
it's not like they are snap on tools
dreamy sapphire
McMasterCarr is where you go when you're spending your bosses money
wide umbra
alternatively, ill sell y'all hardware that ive purchased in bulk if there's something you want. whenever i need anything M2-M8 i just go and buy a pack of them since I'll likely need more later
Grainger has a few locations around which can also be convenient
dreamy sapphire
I've still got almost at least one of everything from my 1000 pack of misc M2-M4 bolts nuts and washers amazon kit
The M3x10 went out real fast though. Love those things
wide umbra
for some reason ive went way harder on m3x8 vs 10
dreamy sapphire
Ive got 2 of those left
I really should get some parts organizers and just bulk order 1000 of each kind of bolt
Never worry about them again
wide umbra
now ur getting it
😄
menards has small organizers in their aisle bins for $3 last i was there
robust flax
Drove down 35 today with the wis block and didn't pick up any new radios but I did get acks along the way
Same path with the lily go ib think I got 4-5
wide umbra
@quaint marlin ideas https://www.printables.com/model/890830-meshtastic-birdhouse-node
dreamy sapphire
No hole, remove the bottom, little bat box
Bats eat skeeters, we need more of them
wide umbra
i really think this is gonna be a/the ticket
dreamy sapphire
using the nice printer to make a new case for my mobile node
busted out the temp color changing filament for this one
goes from orange to white with just the heat from your hand
quaint marlin
Drove down 35 today with the wis block and didn't pick up any new radios but I d...
ACKs are good!
robust flax
Not logging the nodes is wack
quaint marlin
That is sorta weird, you'd think that any time an ACK comes up you'd also get the new node notification?
quaint marlin
Good!
I'll be signing and paying for it in the next few days. Getting on the roof after that should be a piece of cake, as there's a maintenance guy there 6-11 every day.
So I just went out and did a Menard's trip/MT range test on the new Bandit I just got in yesterday's mail - BIG improvements over even my 4W amplified wisblock.
got several ~3mi messages through from places I normally wouldn't
quaint marlin
I have never tried it with any device. I think it has to be an ESP32 device
and yeah I think it would need a GPS as well
robust flax
I was going I could use the phones GPS
quaint marlin
I think GPS settings need to be adjusted. I don't think it'll do "every message" it's time-based
so you have to enable the "Smart Position" thing, and have it set to thresholds of distance and time to send a GPS update
I could be wrong on that. 99 times out of 100 I just have my nodes set to static position, I set it once and never do it again (so that they report a position even though they don't have a GPS)
I suppose I could set the car nodes to update as frequently as possible.
junior cosmos
So what do I have to do to get you guys to just get gps on the nodes itself?
quaint marlin
for my car nodes, I'd have to get whatever that weird GPS unit is that the G2 has plugs for
for my army of remote nodes I'd have to take them all apart and put a wisblock GPS unit and antenna in, which would be a herculean task
it sorta blows my mind that all messages don't just come along with a UTC timestamp, and a simple yes/no to "do I have a GPS" or something like that.
could do SOME sort of mesh-centered time control that way.
dreamy sapphire
quaint marlin
and any node with a real GPS could just send out a beacon that has a real UTC timestamp and non-GPS nodes could adjust their time accordingly
robust flax
So what do I have to do to get you guys to just get gps on the nodes itself?
What would be the reason for slap and sticks to have GPS.
dreamy sapphire
Stay classy, America
junior cosmos
could do SOME sort of mesh-centered time control that way.
Well supposedly if one node has a gps the mesh is supposed to set there timestamps from that but from my testing that has never worked.
junior cosmos
What would be the reason for slap and sticks to have GPS.
For the love of god timestamps. My ocd is fucking going up a wall with how mangled and all over the place they are.
It has some other nice to haves but really just timestamps.
I’m gonna die on this hill.
robust flax
For the love of god timestamps. My ocd is fucking going up a wall with how mangl...
You can set a network time server..
quaint marlin
Stay classy, America
I found that one like 2 months ago and haven't seen it since
ngl I laughed at "LongFart" as it's a great play on the default channel name
When I switched my home HQ node from a t-beam with GPS to a Bandit (without GPS) I lost any sort of sense that timestamps were making.
quaint marlin
BTW this is another light-pole node I'm very seriously considering.
look at all that coverage in mpls and some of the inner burbs, and it's only at 30ft off ground level
it's not really a light pole though, it's a very tall high voltage tower that has very easy access to the lower parts of it....so it's not high on my list of "go ahead and do it now!" nodes
wide umbra
Yeahhhh probably generally bes to avoid electrical infrastructure as that will get looked poorly on if something comes up
wide umbra
That whole area is pretty elevated, wonder if the Bell Museum would be down for a solar node on the roof
quaint marlin
i get insane radio results from the bell museum
That spot on 280 and Larpenter is for some reason elevated to the right place to cover a lot to the west. There are other places in the immediate area that would probably be OK
You can also get similar results, if not better, by putting a node on top of one of the abandoned grain elevators that aren't too far away from there
I do know that there is a ham radio repeater not far from that location, I think it's over by Como Avenue
quaint marlin
power lines and water towers are too sensitive. That's one of those things that gets you a visit from the unmarked Tahoes.
quaint marlin
I am however interested in seeing if I can find a spot at United Crushers where nobody would bother a node
watching this video to scope for potential spots at the top where it'd be unlikely to get disturbed
probably one of the steel crane booms
robust flax
power lines and water towers are too sensitive. That's one of those things that ...
Water towers yes. Not for the reasons you would think. Power towers meh nbd.
But, we dont talk about that in public places
quaint marlin
I've heard from other folks that were linesmen etc that power line poles were not a big deal.
My thought would be - if you paint the node to be the same color as the pole it's going up on, nobody will ever see or care. That, and don't stick out like a sore thumb while installing.
robust flax
Handy dandy can of spray galv. Unless it's a rust pole
quaint marlin
the base color of them is grey which is a nice blend-in color. The pole on 280 and univ is like a sky blue/white
Alright my home HQ is a G2 now, let's see if I start picking up more nodes
robust flax
Well?
robust flax
Lucky.
quaint marlin
So yeah, definitely picked up 6 or 7 node beacons that I hadn't seen before, but none were reachable.
Just did a little bit of a driving range test, and I was mostly an alligator with a G2 on both ends of the test. It's an area that I normally wouldn't expect huge results from so it's better alligator than nothing. Also I will try again sometime with a longer 5dbi antenna to see if I can mirror the results I get from my other G2 car node
quaint marlin
picked up @junior cosmos 's node right away (he's at a worksite about 1.5 miles from my house, my old HQ nodes also had no problem with that)
I may go up later today and swap out my antenna and mount from the HQ since I got a new, waterproof one.
may switch to a 5.8dbi and see how that treats me
robust flax
What do you have in the house now?
wide umbra
My g2 showed up today!
robust flax
How long was the wait
quaint marlin
roughly two weeks is the wait
i just drove rush hour from stpaul to eden prairie
range ping the whole time
only saw the node i've seen before over at france at 494
robust flax
Sheezus
robust flax
Wish I knew you where coming up here we could have met up
I've been napping trying to recover from this botched bone marrow biopsy from this morning
dreamy sapphire
Yikes
robust flax
Aye! I'll recover and I'm still alive but all the extra scraping and digging around they did has my hip sore as heck!
junior cosmos
You can set a network time server..
But then it would have to be connected to the internet which works for a couple nodes not the majority!
Work solar node just deployed.
robust flax
Very nice!
junior cosmos
Even with such little sun she’s already gained 0.1v in 25-30min
robust flax
Does it have an mppt?
junior cosmos
It’s what’s built into the rak so not a true mppt
dreamy sapphire
theres nothing built into the rak, if you overvolt from the panel it goes kablooey
it's just a 3-4.5v variable second input
robust flax
dreamy sapphire
I've got a panel that does 4.5v when charging but 7v empty, I'm hoping I dont overvolt it when the battery gets fully charged
hopefully @quaint marlin has some words on that, or a link to a decent mptt controller
robust flax
I ordered one of these..
Taidacent CN3791 Solar Chargers MPPT Solar Battery Charger 6V 12V MPPT Solar Charge Controller 3.7V 4.2V 2A Li Battery Charging Board Module (6V) https://a.co/d/imIST6V
quaint marlin
Wish I knew you where coming up here we could have met up
I was on my way to my soccer game which I am now back from. Got a couple ACKs on 35W near the downtown bypass
quaint marlin
hopefully <@708792125117956157> has some words on that, or a link to a decent mp...
I have a Waveshare (A) if you want it. I don't think I'm ever gonna use it.
quaint marlin
The stock RAK controller should be fine. I think the stories of cooked boards are edge cases. Just make sure you put lots of mAh’s in there and itll be gold.
robust flax
Max needs more mah? They don't call him capman for nothin...
junior cosmos
it's just a 3-4.5v variable second input
Yes for just powering the rak it self off the solar port but the same linear charge controller that’s tied in to the usb-c port is also tied into the solar panel port. Which runs the logic for charging the lithium batteries off the battery port.
Both the linear charge controller and linear voltage regulator top out at 5.5v on the wisblock base 19007.
junior cosmos
I ordered one of these..
You just grab the mppt to be able to run a higher voltage solar panel?
junior cosmos
Max needs more mah? They don't call him capman for nothin...
If you can fit it the more capacitance and mah the better imho
robust flax
You just grab the mppt to be able to run a higher voltage solar panel?
Yes and everything I keep reading is the rak controller isn't a controller so, just a test I guess. Also 6v panels seem to be more plentiful
dreamy sapphire
5W panels on sale at microcenter today. 20 bucks off!
quaint marlin
those are nice if those are the ones i use
quaint marlin
looks an awful lot like it
robust flax
5w? 12v I'll bet
quaint marlin
i'm using this successfully in several nodes using the rak built in controller
Solar Panel for Security... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5G2BD5P?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
5w 5v
it's also really easy to work with
several mounting options including lid mount on the project box simply by drilling one 1/4" hole
robust flax
Nice