us - NYC metro

[jaunty harness]

yeah it's not like "this $30 thing fixed all your problems!" but just part of the recipe of making the 1Ws be all they can really be by cleaning up the RX. Buddy is also sending an airframe cavity filter so there's further experimenting coming

[bronze wren]

Looking forward to more experiments. I don't have any filters in use (for these things at least, I acutally have a low pass filter to exclude my lora stuff from interacting with some other SDR stuff) but I think it'd also be my next upgrade.

My real focus has been on getting bike mounted nodes for group rides off-grid (gravel trails, bike packing, etc). Not sure if it'll work well enough in some regions but I want to run some real tests with a prototype.

[jaunty harness]

nice! i totally have the incorrect image in my head of a banana seat bike with a giant CB whip antenna but it should work pretty great in that kind of setting if you're able to position at least one node up high to cover an area (either still on a bike or just plopped down in place)

[proven grove]

@jaunty harness - it lives!

[inner laurel]

Hey guys, where can I find a simple step by step “howTo” setup admin on nodes that will soon be running away from my daily access ?

[jaunty harness]

oooo need the updated gerbers! but no rush, I got enough work and some other projects to keep me occupied for a bit

[jaunty harness]

there's a section of the docs that covers setting it up but feel free to ask any questions (even if you think it's silly/dumb) and happy to help you get it going

[bronze wren]

It'll be a pretty compact setup small cylinder and a whip antenna sticking out backward. Scanning some saddle rails to decide if I really want to mount it there or somewhere else.

[jaunty harness]

nice, would love to see a pic once you've got it built out. imagine it'd work better further antenna is from the giant rf absorbing sack of water that is the human body so like during rides it doesn't end up eating much signal though once outside the city should still be good for a mile easy

[daring moth]

I saw this on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/782419206691939/posts/1055949116005612/

I am thinking of putting a Spec5 Solar Meshtastic Relay on the Williamsburg bridge. Maybe 2 one in the Manhattan Side and the other on the Brooklyn side.

[jaunty harness]

heh unless they have access to the crowsnests grand st is higher, also booo spec5

[abstract iron]

anything more than just slapping t1es in handlebag bars?

I'd mount a node to my bike frame if it produced wildly better performance but haven't thought of a way it would be better than just having a t1e around the bike somewhere

[jaunty harness]

so... you're saying my banana seat bike with a giant cb whip is actually the move? 😄

[abstract iron]

yes when you wanna ride heh

we can go to highest point in $borough

altho I used to try from greenwood and couldn't get out with winmesh pocket. could retry with donk

[bronze wren]

I’m 3D printing and enclosure etc. some rides get muddy. Want to keep things protected.

It’ll be designed around an 18650 battery, many of which come with built-in usbc charge ports now. So the rest is mount and antenna stuff.

Bike cockpits get pretty busy and at higher speeds (25+mph) aerodynamics are important so … if I front mount it might take a bit more effort.

I might test multiple options but behind seems to be advantageous other than body water.

Helmet mounts might work but look super dorky

Bottle cage adapters are on my list as maybe the easiest to hack together.

[abstract iron]

yah that would be interesting

is there a riding specific use case you can think of? I ride with mine always but usually to use it at my destination

like during doesn't help since text and ride tricky etc

while maintaining a swivel for cars and whatever NYPD stunt is ahead etc

[jaunty harness]

filter verdict so far: consistently seeing 15-25 more "active" nodes and slightly better SNR but +10-25 RSSI (ymmv)

[karmic junco]

I thought you were initially talking about bicycles...

[bronze wren]

I am. Many of us call the handle bar region a cockpit

In my case 100% human powered two wheel machines.

[karmic junco]

25+ is fast

Then why not stick the device in your jersey pocket

You can also zip tie it to the rear triangle if it's cylindrical

Seat tube if available

[mortal wind]

NYC endgame is to get enough nodes to get to not need LF for activity, since distance isn’t much of a problem.

it’s the interference and congestion mostly.

outside of manhattan/LIC/Downtown Brooklyn? presets could be adjusted for the distance right?

[bronze wren]

I already do put notes in my jersey but it’s nice to leave space for things like food.

[daring moth]

Technically yes, but then they'll be isolated from each other. Unless you bridge them, but that has a few of its own downsides.

[bronze wren]

Also speed, yeah, strong riders are faster than many think. I hit 32.5 yesterday which sustained speed is more like 20 avg when I’m not unlucky with traffic lights.

But in a group ride I definitely have extended periods where the pace stays 22+ on good roads. You really feel the wind at 25+ (like no aero position will make it feel reasonable for a non-pro). So I design around what might help.

I’m mixed on meshtastic being a perfect fit as I’d love to integrate meters and such so even if the protocol works, having firmware that can send canned messages when someone stops or whatever could be nice.

Anyway, still experimenting more than finalizing.

[mortal wind]

That’s the thing, the bridges would theoretically be overrun with switching messages within the MaxMessageQueue for meshtasticd that it would clog the mesh network.

[jaunty harness]

MaxMessageQueue is locally stored messages, that it heard from the mesh/mqtt/udp, it's not waiting to retransmit those

they're queued up for app to accesss

[mortal wind]

Exactly, so if a bridging node was set up to transmit between different presets, allocation wouldn’t be required to bridge the messages between all the channels?

Maybe I’m looking at it wrong: when a message is received at a node with a S&F module in one frequency, does it automatically become available to the other channels set by the node?

[bronze wren]

allocation is required at some level given that we don't immediately know if the channel is ready for broadcast, let alone the asymmetry in bandwidth could actually lead to backpressure and drops. The main thing here is which buffer is tuned with which command.

I'm a little skeptical of channel bridging but if 2.4GHz bridges help small indoor meshes avoid routing into the longer range spectrum unless they can't see an explicitly configured bridge repeat the broadcast on 915, it could be a really cool win for some places where the hack is to mute a bunch of otherwise useful clients.

AFAICT the running LoRa on other unlicensed ranges is still more of an experiment but I think it'd be really cool to see.

[jaunty harness]

I have some 2.4GHz capable radios (ebyte E80-900M2213S which is Semtech's LR1121) but as I understand getting them into 2.4GHz mode involves flipping 2 of the DIO inputs to configure it for that instead of it's default 915MHz which is already 3 more I/O lines than SX1262 (and 2 more than LR1111) and not even sure you can flip between them or need to set the DIOs and then reset to have it reboot on the higher freq - so basically the technology is there but the DIY PCBs aren't caught up to support it... yet

not even sure there's commercial devices using the LR1121 vs the LR1111 in the (which can't do 2.4G)

also filter continues being awesome, almost 80 "active" for me right now vs usual mid ~40s nodes - should have bought this thing months ago!

[mortal wind]

Note to self: Buy a filter along with a rpi hat for the GARDEN

How many direct connections now?

[jaunty harness]

5 atm not including the desk node

[mortal wind]

Higher or lower than before the filter?

[jaunty harness]

def higher and with slightly but noticeable better SNR/RSSI

[mortal wind]

ok definitely installing a filter on the queens node

[jaunty harness]

heh i def have some other freqs interfering, you might only need a low pass or high pass but I have some 433MHz stuff i've seen with SDR/Flipper Zero and a close Cell Tower so that's why I went for bandpass to cutoff both lower and higher

the 1W radios specifically also have some RX issues vs say a RAK which is very well tuned for 915MHz rx and tx

[mortal wind]

increase the Q and all that jazz.

[jaunty harness]

yeah, should have the airframes cav filter next week and then can compare the $ vs $$$ filters

but for $30, def happy with the GPIO

[karmic junco]

The theretical debates are real.

Right now the limiter is just users. And geography, because NYC is very flat. Even a good high up place can't beam down low. With enough hops we can get past that a bit... But if the numbers become too great then we have horrible congestion.

And the congestion isn't just from meshtastic. It's from everything utilizing the spectrum. I don't see it much... .. utilization is still pretty low in my opinion

[mortal wind]

I have the same experience so far in some pockets of the city, if there are too many nodes I get messages much later than usual.

[midnight mural]

@jaunty harness which filter are you rocking now with good results??

cuz I want one meow!

[terse gull]

is long fast the place to be still?

[frail grotto]

ATM but we are currently in the should we swap to mf debate. Just need enough people to pick a date and do it.

[midnight mural]

sadly

[frail grotto]

P2NY firmware updated and antenna

[jaunty harness]

GPIO Labs Band Pass for 915MHz - specifically to address RX on 1W

[terse gull]

i can put up an MF node... i have a bunch sitting around...

[jaunty harness]

I have a Xiao nRF52840 + Wio kit in another window on MF, so far only heard from Zilla when he was like a block away 😄

[mortal wind]

I’m down to test for MF. I have my WARDEN with me.

what’s the psk?

[jaunty harness]

i think putting up spare nodes on MF is an easy way to prep for the switch over but a proper test of a few presets would be the ideal way to determine which works best vs the armchair math

same as LongFast AQ== (but channel name is MediumFast)

if you change your preset app should automagically reconfigure primary channel, not sure what happens if you moved "default" to secondary / have something else primary

[terse gull]

anyone know which antenna P2NY is using?

[frail grotto]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196266454155

[ashen venture]

https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/releases

In older firmware, generated public/private keys may have insufficient entropy, resulting in the possibility of key reuse across devices. This release delays key generation until the user sets a LoRa region, and also mixes in additional sources of randomness. Additionally, if one of the known key collisions are detected, the user is notified, and should regenerate keys as soon as possible.
ICYMI. probably not a big deal unless you manage remote nodes and your keys are weak.

[jaunty harness]

oh interesting, that parses like it'll warni if it detects your key is weak which sure beats blanket rekeying + readmin-keying

[ashen venture]

looking at the code, it looks like they weren't seeding the RNG before calling the curve25519 dh1 function. If it's the arduino code base (which I think it is), docs clearly say caller is responsible for setting up RNG.

"may have insufficient entropy" seems like an understatement. "we forgot to seed our RNG in all prior versions" seems more accurate.

[jaunty harness]

HAH yeah it's almost definitely arduino code base as all the platformio libraries are arduino ones

[karmic junco]

I don't see much of a point of medium fast ATM. Heck the majority of us here still have not made any real contact with each other and we are literally within 20 sq miles

[jaunty harness]

the theory is MF (or whatever preset) gets off all the LF legacy / unmaintained nodes

[ashen venture]

https://hackaday.social/@JP_Bennett/114671397635948228

Hey, just a quick note. Meshtastic did use established standards: x25519 and AES-CCM. The problem fixed here is twofold: The chosen crypto library uses a non-standard way to get entropy from boards, and devices were getting cloned as a manufacturing step.

[jaunty harness]

that last part is big yikes but does explain people who would ask in #help about having gotten two new nodes and there being same key and from experienced user side it seemed a user error where they blasted the same cfg to multiple devices

[ashen venture]

Also the chosen crypto library isn't "non-standard" -- they just require the caller to set up the RNG and meshtastic simply chose not to do it at all. https://rweather.github.io/arduinolibs/classCurve25519.html#a2b6911583d17ea9a36bbbb40d58b3d89 (docs)
https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/commit/55b2bbf93756fc7bbbfdbc7cbf29f88e6b637f22 (patch)

Don't get me wrong, I think meshtastic is a great project and a lot of fun. But I would never use it for something where I'd want the privacy of Signal or in-person comms.

[jaunty harness]

for sure, the Devs position is basically "there hasn't been a serious security audit, don't assume it's perfect"

cause yeah, it's RF so anyone can listen/record and then offline apply whatever amount of resources they have at cracking it

[proven grove]

With a 200 character limit (on a good day, like a block away from each other) I don't think anyone's sharing state secrets over Meshtastic.

[jaunty harness]

discretely looks in Hegseth's direction

the response is usually for people relying on it as a "secure" comm channel during protests/disobedience - does it work? yeah. does it fully keep you safe? probably but don't bank on it

[ashen venture]

I think it's reasonable assume anything on mesh is just a few short steps from being as public as twitter. I would expect people are collecting all messages in any major population area.

doesn't mean every message is being archived, but it's just a useful assumption from a privacy perspective.

[jaunty harness]

just need one node on RF uplinked to MQTT, and that's just one example of how to easily export the public channel's conversation(s)

[mortal wind]

Alternatvely, nodes could be the mixed reality equivalent of a guestbook

if the features allow external storage.

[jaunty harness]

hmmm yeah, even with the 80node limit on an nRF device that's still a record of 80 "guests"

[blissful moon]

I have a rak where I can't change any config.. has the option is managed enable.. I did by mistake.. but now.. even through serial I can change anything.. any sugestions? I feel that I need to re-image.

[jaunty harness]

yeah managed mode makes it serial or rf only for admin, fortuantely you seem to have it connected on serial so should just be meshtastic --set security.is_managed false

[blissful moon]

Tried already

using serial connection

[jaunty harness]

huh, yeah if that's not taking and you don't have adminkeys... backup it's current privatekey meshtastic --get security.privatekey and then wipe away knowing you can restore the privatekey and not have anything funky since it'll match what everyone has cached for your !userid

[jaunty harness]

what a traceroute!

[frail grotto]

Fox see ass and titi in a window ugkh

[echo siren]

Hi! I’m new! I’m in Westchester!

[jaunty harness]

Welcome!

Grew up in Mamaroneck, has pleased me greatly to see the village has some nodes up

[mortal wind]

Aye, Welcome

[jaunty harness]

we gotta get 🪟 in here, they've got some great positioning

[amber edge]

I think I know the 🪟 location and the position on the map is pretty far off

[jaunty harness]

oh that's just meshsense's random guess of where it might be location, have yet to see it guess the correct burough when there's no location being shared 😄

[abstract iron]

also Metaphor!

that node really ties the neighborhood together. even better than that weird 0xffffffff node

[twin root]

When you see 0xffffff in a trace route that just indicates a malformed packer response. Could be anyone.

Lots of mesh users at Hushcon, security conference today in midtown

[jaunty harness]

isn't it also really old firmware?

i heard there was a bunch of meshtastic devices at shmoocon but downtown boston has some issues from what i've picked up - like 3-4 router/router_clients all within close proximity and unmonitored/refuse to change role

[mortal wind]

So that what that is! ok.

[abstract iron]

TGIF. for the junglist/Meshtastic crossover: https://youtu.be/-5FT9Be0jAc?si=JZ5WAOhsJToNb0Mo @Pizza 🍕

[frail grotto]

There I am 📨

[covert harbor]

Im all the way out in Montauk, was at citi field with the school yesterday. Left a node in the window while we were at the game. was awesome to come back to 70 new nodes detected!

[midnight mural]

I've always wondered about Bassdrive.com.... "from the top of the empire state building" I tune in all the time, also, https://jungletrain.net/

[jaunty harness]

Tommy is one of the main guys in Austin, and kinda started the latest round of investigation of the weak RX on the 1W radios - went from ~20 to 55 active nodes in like 2 hours

[midnight mural]

progress?

what do you all use for documentation? I'm looking for a self hosted docker solution to keep track of my projects and home services in general. I currently use iOS notes, but that is something I'd like to move away from.

I've played with wiki.js - eh, nothing good nor bad but looking suggestions

[hazy nexus]

what are you documenting

NetBox is cool for IP networking stuff but a bit of a heavyweight lol

[midnight mural]

general notes, processes, code snippets, maybe some config files

[hazy nexus]

usually topic-specific software is gonna turn out best if you want great detail and any sort of automation. if you're just storing lots of configs yeah I think there are more general programs; I haven't really used any

[midnight mural]

meshtastic would be notes, keys and files

[hazy nexus]

there are some that are just for writing docs or blogs like nothing fancy but webpages

[midnight mural]

markdown would be fine, something I'd like to pickup...seems ok to read

[jaunty harness]

docmost is worth looking at

[hazy nexus]

passwords and keys I try to use Bitwarden or some other key storage depending on the platform

[jaunty harness]

i have a private repo, sops encrypted sensitive bits, mess of markdown - it's not for everyone but works for me

[midnight mural]

not for passwords no, just I'm old and suffering from cant remember shit

🙂

[abstract iron]

haha yeah idk. it's always been streaming idk what bassdrive is talking about. but I didn't know about jungletrain

[abstract iron]

I just leave config and keys in a directory. no good system except that I hate git so it would have to not be that.

[midnight mural]

Yes…..but I have so much other stuff to document….

[jaunty harness]

there's also Obsidian which is very Notion-like for the documents but also has a "canvas" where you can basically make your won conspiracy theory diagrams

[midnight mural]

OoooOoOo, I have not gotten to that phase in life yet, but I’d be ready! 😂🤣

[jaunty harness]

I use draw.io for diagraming stuff, both work and personal projects but the canvas is fun and can be a kind of budget Figma

[jaunty harness]

not only broke 500 nodes in the DB... but that's +41 since yesterday

[abstract iron]

wow! with the gpio.com filter installed, that node?

[jaunty harness]

yeah the window femtofox w/GPIO Labs filter

[abstract iron]

nice

[whole basalt]

I have been using a Heltec node for mobile and all of a sudden the display went blank. I took it apart, removed battery, let it sit for a while. Tried to reflash, but gets stuck on "connecting" in the Meshtastic flasher. Still no display. Is my board broken, or can I try something else?

[jaunty harness]

huh, have you tried connecting and checking the serial monitor in the flasher? might be something in the logs you can see that way

or does it not even connect using that console?

[whole basalt]

It connects with serial port, but I can"t get beyond that.

[jaunty harness]

huh, does sound kinda toast but also odd its not logging anything to the console

[whole basalt]

Yeah, tried using the web cli and also no results. Recognizes the board but goes no further. I guess something burned out.

[jaunty harness]

could be - i'd ask in #help as might be someone who's had similiar

[whole basalt]

ok - thanks

[abstract iron]

smorg / domino saw your new node multiple times

[jaunty harness]

same node, meshtasticd root-less update not going very smooth

yeah keeps changing my !userid

[normal osprey]

Oh nice! It’s just a T-Echo in my window for now until i unpack/find the Domino Park fa5a node

[abstract iron]

buddy of mine now has fire escape access. no particular amazing elevation but would give us another Williamsburg node. suggested solar node?

[jaunty harness]

Probably the LoMesh one you have which seems ideal self contained node without getting into the whole weather sealed box and the rest that goes along with it

[abstract iron]

uhoh

[jaunty harness]

what's uhoh, the -187ft elevation?

[daring moth]

My guess is the high signal strength from a node on old firmware.

[abstract iron]

no the IAQ and temperature heh

[jaunty harness]

so basically there's at least 3 things funky going on 8)

[abstract iron]

I mean I never heard of running a node inside a smokestack but hiding in plain sight maybe

[jaunty harness]

meshtasticd + meshsense are being pesky atm so i keep having to restart thing, only have nodeinfo from bblab1

[abstract iron]

jk what you see

[abstract iron]

mine is still chugging along in the rain but he can actually mount something with a visible antenna so might worth looking at all options

[jaunty harness]

heh, i guess depends on how much they want something that shows up and works vs assembling something and futzing with it until its working as they want

there's that seeed ... sensecap I think it is? like $75 for outdoor rated node w/panel+enclosure

and then you can get into stuff like spec5 and atlavox if you're willing to go $100+

[trail sinew]

i'll plug it into the antenna raw at the radio site 😄

[midnight mural]

To my Meshtastic junglists: saw Pola & Bryson and my long time fav Dieselboy last night. Could have played more jungle, but there was lots of dnb, so that’s ok.

I’ll bring drugs through TSA, but not nodes to the club 😂🤣😂

[abstract iron]

damn dieselboy that takes me back

I used to live in Philly and go to 611 records

[jaunty harness]

oh nice! did you ever pick up anything on Flamin' Hotz? (defunct label now, but still love all their releases)

[midnight mural]

Baltimore/DC whistle crew here back in the day 😎

[midnight mural]

No, but this needs investigation

@jaunty harness did your Femtofox get my LF20 message!?!?!?? We have midtown coverage developing, woooooooooo

[jaunty harness]

mmm I don't think so unless you're the blu_tm tdeck?

I saw a message from Ray though, ❤️ this filter

[midnight mural]

No DM, just on the default channel

I see blu_tdeck smorgasbord

[normal osprey]

Smorgasburg is me, for lack of a better name, since I don’t live at One South First/Domino Park anymore as of Wednesday

[jaunty harness]

hehe yeah I realized after checking !userid - hearing you at 3 hops today vs 1 from Domino (which could also just be the rain or usual )

[midnight mural]

I seldom can get out from INSIDE my apartment, this is wild

[mortal wind]

I’m out here with my node today

[jaunty harness]

oooo AlleyCat case for Xiao ESP32/nRF52 kits

[midnight mural]

Those are tiny little things

[fast spruce]

Hiya

I'm setting up a node in Jackson heights right now

I'm gonna setup 4 nodes like this one in woodside one in Jackson heights one in Jamaica one in Long island

How helpful will this be for the mesh

[jaunty harness]

Welcome! All CLIENTs help to improve range and reliability (upto ~300 nodes on default LongFast preset, then it starts to crumble)

Main thing is starting off with the defaults, and using CLIENT role - see how it does from there. Setting up Remote Admin is also worth looking into so you can don't have to go up to the roof if you want to change a setting.

I'm also curious how that node works out with the Dish? antenna on the side and what looks like a Unifi AP? on the same mast - some radios are more susceptible to interference than others... what's the Meshtastic hardware you're going with if you don't mind sharing?

[fast spruce]

Heltec v3 and the dish is a udb pro by unifi

It's only 5ghz so no issues there

I'm setting this up as a router tho

Not a client

Maybe router client

[jaunty harness]

please do not

[fast spruce]

Y

[jaunty harness]

infra roles preempt clients and diminish the mesh

[fast spruce]

What would be most beneficial

[jaunty harness]

regular CLIENT will rebroadcast just fine

[fast spruce]

How far would heltec v3 with my 5.8db antenna go

In queens

As a client will it be any help to the mesh

[jaunty harness]

people have gone 150miles with just .15mw radios (like in the heltec) and 2-3dbi antennas but they had LoS and no interference

[fast spruce]

But this is nyc

[jaunty harness]

CLIENTs help because they'll still rebroadcast, the way meshtastic flood routing works is the further away another node is, the lower signal quality is, which in tern sets a lower retransmission timer - so furthest nodes will retransmit first to maximize propagation

[fast spruce]

So client is best

Then what is router good for?

[jaunty harness]

right, this is NYC and a ~6dbi antenna with a flatter radiation pattern will actually be less useful than a lower dbi antenna and a fatter donut pattern

[fast spruce]

Are these u?

I'm gonna put up 4 of these all over nyc

Will it be helpful

Heltec v3 with that antenna

[jaunty harness]

correct! femtofox / CLIENT is in the window, and babelfox / CLIENT_MUTE is on my desktop with +1 hops so it will relay throught he window node, and receive packets from the mesh via the window node

CLIENTs that play nice with the other CLIENTs is the way to go for a start. If it ends up the node is in a location without other CLIENTs then it's worth trying an infra role but ROUTER_LATE would be a good one to use

[fast spruce]

Nice voron

I'm mainly use enders

[jaunty harness]

This blog post can help explain the roles and the implications

hehe, ❤️ the Vorons but the VzBot is where it's at

[fast spruce]

I have a super heavily modded ender 3 that I call the ender 3 carbon

[jaunty harness]

nice! I turned my original ender v3 into a switchwire / enderwire, just press print and reliable PLA everytime

[fast spruce]

Linear rails every axis ball screws on z klipper firmware water cooling

And a few other upgrades I forgot about

[jaunty harness]

if you get a frame that isn't bent in the box they def take well to mods and tuning

[fast spruce]

Bent??

That happens

That's a thing?

[jaunty harness]

yeah, mass produced and tossed around in package - usually they're fine but have seen some that have bent extrusions out of the box and it's just not worth trying to fight the math of bent frame

[fast spruce]

I started with the ender 3 s1 price

Pro

[jaunty harness]

are you just doing PLA/PETG or have you gone the extra enclosure route to do ABS/ASA?

[daring moth]

For mountaintops.

[fast spruce]

I do pla mainly for normal stuff and anything to do with outdoors I use cg nylon

Cf nylon

Carbon fiber nylon

[jaunty harness]

oooo fancy! i have a spool but never printed with it, usually go ASA for outdoor or PC-ASA if I want a little extra strength

[fast spruce]

I work IT and I have access to like 50 rooftops in NYC if anyone wants to give me a node to install somewhere if an arrangement that

[fast spruce]

Cf nylon is a b*tch

Destroys stainless steel nozzles

Ruined my gears

[amber edge]

What's the tallest building you have access to?

[fast spruce]

One in jamaica

Like 150m tall

It's a medical facility

Do we need to go taller?

[daring moth]

How high above sea level?

[amber edge]

As high as possible

150m tall is ~50 stories?

That would be a stellar client

[fast spruce]

Oh bro

Typo

Not m

I meant feat

Feet

It's a medical facility with like 4 floors

But it's very high

I have a dish up there for ptp internet

[daring moth]

Although my node is currently offline at this location, my apartment is on the seventh (top most) floor in Briarwood, NY. Unfortunately I don't have roof access.

[fast spruce]

I have 2 locations in Jamaica

2 cliente

Clients

[amber edge]

4 stories is great for a node but yes the higher the better generally

[fast spruce]

Cool

Im gonna ask one of my old clients if I can install in his building

20 story

The mesh scene her win NYC is horrible

In like Texas and stuff it's like super cool

But over here

Took me ages to make contact

I have a sense cap t1000e

As my daily carey

Is it just me or does the range in it kinda suck

[jaunty harness]

has LR1110 which is excellent RX, but there's not much antenna inside the case and can have trouble TXing loud enough for something else to hear (also issues with SX127x radios in some devices like T-Beam)

Texas (assuming you mean Austin) has hills that overlook the city in valley which is way easier to provide coverage with few nodes vs NYC which is basically the opposite - the highest points are in the middle and surrounded by valleys with other buildings in the way of LoS.

from 2nd story/60ft AGL about once/day I can cut straight across Houston St and hit a node in Hoboken (if it's up)

[fast spruce]

I just ordered a heltec meshpocket 10kmah version

I think this would be good for edc

I see that pple fly them on drines

Drones

Why

To achieve long range comms?

Does it help the mesh at all?

[jaunty harness]

heh 10KmAh is like, you only wanna recharge once/month

RAK stuff is really excellent and worth looking into, rokland.com is their main US vendor and ship outta FL but also sell on Amazon

drone stuff is mostly just to see how far can propagate rx/tx with just height. Austin I know has their own little group for playing with drones

[fast spruce]

I've got a DJI mini 4 pro

I could stick a heltec v3 on it

And fly up high

Just for fun

[jaunty harness]

Austin uses the Seeed nRF52840 + WioSX1262 kits sandwiched tight and powered off an internal usb-c so it’s all self contained

So not separate battery for the radio and already about as small as you can get without mad scientisting a combo microcontroller+radio chip like RAK 4631

There’s quite the rabbit hole of DIY nodes too if you’re handy with a soldering iron (nods in a.li3n’s direction)

[fast spruce]

I'm pretty good with a soldering iron

I use a pinecil v2

[fast spruce]

How many nodes do u have

I fell down the meshtastic rabbit hole a week ago

And I'm at 2 sense cap trackers 2 heltec meshpockets and 4 heltec v3s

[jaunty harness]

hrmmm, grand total I'm not even sure - but there's 14 on my desk/workbench within arm's reach 😬

[fast spruce]

Oof this is gonna get expensive for me then

Real fast

[jaunty harness]

the #nrf52 channel and especially the #1194757507013427250 are a trove of good info - I also maintain an awesome list of DIY nodes

[jaunty harness]

https://tenor.com/ozXoRfSEpx4.gif

the DIY stuff is mostly cheaper than the prebiult stuff, but also depends on how complex the node

[fast spruce]

Dumb question

Who is supposed to pay for the maintenance of meshtastic

Like is it all on us the people

[jaunty harness]

yeah basically, we put the nodes that builds out the infrastructure out of pocket

[fast spruce]

Damn

Like I've got tons of good places to put nodes

[jaunty harness]

some of us have donated hardware to Gardener who has access to the rooftops that NYCMesh (the wifi group) deploys on, and that's helped a lot in Brooklyn last few months

[fast spruce]

But I cannot afford to

I have so many rooftops

Like at least 50

[jaunty harness]

put up the ones you've got for now, see how they go for a start - once you've figured out some other likely candidates happy to help with some node hardware donations to help out the mesh

The Faketec DIY boards be of interest as they're roughly Heltec v3 form factor but can be assembled ~$10 each

[fast spruce]

Tomorrow all 4 are going online

All in all how much does a solar node that self-contained cost

So far my POE nodes cost $81 a pop

[jaunty harness]

they're also nRF52840 based so the most efficient power / least battery draw

it depends, there's projects that repurpose Harbor Breeze or Lowe's Solar Garden lights so you just add the node and that's like $15-20 so the lower end

[fast spruce]

How come no one else buys these three foot long antennas All the nodes I see online people are using like shorter antennas

[jaunty harness]

SoShine's 6W Panel is pretty popular choice, have an onboard 5V output which you can run to a cheap charger and LiOn battery and stick in an outdoor rated enclosure, just needs antenna and pigtail

[fast spruce]

I bought 3 ft long antennas

[fast spruce]

What's best for New York City

[jaunty harness]

we generally want 3-5dBi for bigger donut pattern, especially on a roof node so it can also cover the street

[fast spruce]

How is 5.8 DBA

[jaunty harness]

it's kinda in the middle, ok to reach other rooftops nodes but less likely to provide street coverage

[fast spruce]

On the actual streets I have like no reception

[jaunty harness]

higher dBi would be good for PTP style connection with great LoS as they more narrow beam/radiation pattern

[fast spruce]

Also all the nodes that I'm putting up now have access to the internet via POE

So it's setting up mosquito broker be a good idea

[jaunty harness]

someone is actually running a dedicated MQTT server for NYC so you can just use that one - info is on https://nyme.sh/

[fast spruce]

Oh I see this node all the time

That's how I came to this discord channel

[jaunty harness]

nice! at the bottom is the MQTT cfg info, basically just change the address and topic from defaults and should be good to go

[fast spruce]

So does MQTT basically act as a tunnel between like nodes

So if I send a message then the closest note will pick it up and it'll send it to a node that's closest to the recipient or like how does it work

[jaunty harness]

there's also UDP available in 2.6.x which can be used for bridging / backhaul though not guaranteed to retransmit what it hears over UDP back to RF

[fast spruce]

Do I have to open ports on my firewall or like what

[jaunty harness]

MQTT is optional, not all of us use it - but it's more for mapping though you can in theory have a channel in NYC with someone in say Cali and you're backhaul for that is purely MQTT

[fast spruce]

You know here's the thing about me whenever I get into a hobby I go fully in

Like all the way

Like thousands of dollars all the way

[jaunty harness]

UDP uses only :4403

[fast spruce]

When I got into networking I actually thought I was not going to recover from this

[jaunty harness]

it's not impossible to hit that # but it should take a while - to get there, i guess depends on how cheap you can get the Solar node down to (check #solar-power for some inspiration)

[fast spruce]

My wallet cries

How many years can I run a node on this for

Leftover from 5 hobbies ago

[jaunty harness]

hehe well you're already building your own roof installs for not too bad, you can get crazy with something from AltaVox which is AIO Solar setup for like $250 - but you can also put something together for far cheaper

[jaunty harness]

depends on the node, but an nRF52840 mcu + 1W radio could probably go a week. with a regular .15W radio even longer

you'd want a buck converter to dump it down to 5V though so some efficiency loss there, and other side is any sort of charge limitation on the batteries - some mcus have builtin charge controllers that are limited to 100-300mAh so it's like one nice sunny day isn't* a guarantee you can fully recharge a battery that's been draining from overcast/raindy days

[fast spruce]

How does this stack up against my Poe setup

[keen slate]

i’ve never had a problem with a t1000e in the wallet 😄

[abstract iron]

welcome

[fast spruce]

I also edc a t1000e

I'm gonna switch to the meshpocket 10kmah tho

[jaunty harness]

you could definitely add solar + big battery for a lot less than the ~$175 difference 😄

I use a holster for my T1000E, easily slides into my messenger bag shoulder strap which works better than just on my waist in the city but even waist is good for a couple blocks to reach the home node depending on buildings/LoS

[fast spruce]

@jaunty harness

This is my printer

Poor thing has more than 2000 print hours

https://tenor.com/view/green-mile-im-tired-boss-michael-clarke-duncan-gif-2375696290766999196

[jaunty harness]

that's a trooper alright

[fast spruce]

Lol

Anyone wanna donate a node to place in Jamaica on hillside ave

Building is about 4 story high and is the highest building on that block

Building has Poe on the roof so solar is not strictly needed

[midnight mural]

iOS app updates hit today

[fast spruce]

My android app updated

The new UI is sleek

[abstract iron]

wow Signal, Discord, Meshtastic updates on one day

[fast spruce]

Well

We all know what I'm up to today

[midnight mural]

I have not been able to satisfy my ability to burn money with meshtastic nodes, so I'm stepping it up a notch and building ADS-B micro feeders.....but to add a node to each micro feeder is what I've been trying to figure out. Seems like I shouldn't be wasting USB ports nor RAM on a raspi 😉

[fast spruce]

Woah

I saw ur pizza message yesterday

[mortal wind]

Hey! Good Morning! Are you aware of the WisMesh Meshtastic Repeater by RAKWireless? it’s a single kit solution that speeds up the process of setting up a node.

[fast spruce]

On the i85 intersate

@midnight mural

[ashen venture]

And even then, ROUTER_LATE is probably better.

[midnight mural]

no, but I will look!!!! Thank you, I like RAK stuff

[mortal wind]

https://store.rakwireless.com/products/wishmesh-meshtastic-solar-repeater-mini?index=6&intsource=rak_store&intmedium=organic&intcampaign=meshtastic_collection_page&intterm=meshtastic_range_extenders&intcontent=product_image&variant=44413997121734

[midnight mural]

I will eventually do a solar setup, but this needs mains power for the adsb.....going to sit in a house....attempting to coax owners for more radio on premise 😉

[mortal wind]

comes with a bat

[midnight mural]

kinda like a gateway drug.....come play with radio, we have cookies

[mortal wind]

I’m also near Hollis and there are currently not any nodes on nyme.sh. I’m hype to get more nodes in Jamaica/South Ozone/Hollis area

[ashen venture]

Sorry for my late posts to old chat but I have a few of these. I've also been playing with the harbor breeze builds. The benefit of the Atlavox is that it's just self-contained and the designers thought of everything. 5W panel, easy to mount, quality cable and antenna, ip68 case is recessed from the panel to keep it cool, etc. An install at 1400 ft on the top of a hill has never dropped below 85% battery.

[fast spruce]

Cool

And it's cheap

Very on par with diy

[ashen venture]

Although to buy from Rokland you'll need to watch the stock, they usually sell out quickly. Last I saw they were back in stock.

[fast spruce]

I use change detector for that

[ashen venture]

Have you used this kit? I'm curious how it handles direct sunlight in the summer in terms of internal heat.

[mortal wind]

I have currently installed it and hoping I can get contact through remote once other nodes pop up in Hollis/Jamaica/Saint Albans etc.

[fast spruce]

I'm putting one up on hillside ave today

Hillside ave and parsons

In medical plaza

On the roof

[mortal wind]

might be able to lower hop count once I get contact from the city

for my node

[fast spruce]

Might be able to make contact

Tonight

[mortal wind]

there are a couple of nodes in Kew Gardens, and quite a few on LI

but none between there.

[ashen venture]

The atlavox beacon is nice but definitely not as cheap as the DIY harbor breeze builds. With a $40 mini rak board + 3d printed mount + antenna, you can get a good build for $75. I also added a heat inset hole to one of the 3d print designs out there so it could fit a game camera mount. Not as good for the city but great for outdoor in places you don't want to drill into something to mount.

Speaking of SI, who runs the NERO node? Anyone know how high up it is? that one hits hudson valley direct

[abstract iron]

BTW anyone regularly mesh down in Coney area? surprisingly dead down there. didn't try the ferris wheel to get some elevation, rain

oh btw note that the Meshtastic app for Android now exposes the "favorite node" property, which I am guessing means it won't roll off the nodedb

[ashen venture]

I recommend opting in for the beta releases in the play store btw. I needed that feature so I wouldn't lose my remote nodes and was able to get it early that way.

[abstract iron]

oh favorite also puts it at the top of the node UI. interesting

even if they aren't reachable then

[jaunty harness]

yeah, and also puts them at the top of the list for remote admin (on iOS/macOS at least)

[mortal wind]

I’m hype that tactility got an update today as well

[abstract iron]

I've got the donk facing downtown from Chelsea, elevation, for about one hour

no filter yet tho 😇

[mortal wind]

Flashed my WARDEN with it, Its definitely a step closer to a PDA.

There is also dark mode

[echo siren]

Oh you’re warden? I’m RAC1

[fast spruce]

dumb question

how do you not dox youself

[abstract iron]

just turn off location for any nodes you consider sensitive. do you mean that?

in terms of just their physical RF presence, depending on what you're worried about, well you gotta turn them off ofc

[glossy pine]

If you’d like to keep location on can set the reporting radius to very large so it won’t really give away where you are to some degree of accuracy

[jaunty harness]

Yeah default location is .9 miles but the location fuzzing is dropping digits so you end up with the situation in Williamsburg with nodes stacked ontop of each other at Grand & Union

You also end up with essentially a “grid” of fuzzed locations since it’s lat/lat coords. You can also get “cute” like that oopoo30 ROUTER_CLIENT and set their location to Red Hook, NY which is upstate but I believe implying Red Hook Brooklyn from the traceroutes

[brazen spear]

@fast spruce Hey awesome you're putting up a bunch of nodes! Please consider adding a battery backup to your enclosures. We want this to work during a powe outage 🙂

You can add a tp4060 for $1 and one or two old 18650s and have a power backup for a few days during an outage.

Also adding a pi lets you remote update the firmware or settings.

[dark lake]

Hey I’m new! I got my first node today setup in Clinton Hill, Brooklyn. My apartment is ground level though so not sure how much I’ll be able to do from here. Still fun regardless!

[amber edge]

@dark lake welcome! there's a few of us in clinton hill, myself included. i have a couple nodes in the area

[brazen spear]

And @fast spruce if you are designing nodes that can do poe you can put them up at nycmesh locations. Very very good roofs. Look at the blue dots on this map.

map.nycmesh.net

[amber edge]

what's your name on the mesh? if you feel comfortable sharing. curious if you've got a decent connect

[brazen spear]

Also FYI the 6dbi antennas are great and handle street level just fine from WAY up like grand st and vernon.

[dark lake]

I’m “Mini Node” at the moment! Let me know if you see it

[brazen spear]

I understand the theory of the narrower propagation, but because meshtastic works so far below the noise floor, in practice, anything in the neighborhood at street level will be heard by a node super high up, even with a high gain antenna.

[fast spruce]

Hiya

Jackson heights node online

I have a 3kmah battery but when I plug it into the heltec v3 USB serial doesn't work

And I cant see battery percentage or anything

Can someone try to make contact with my edc node

This node

[bronze wren]

Not seeing it yet from elmhurst but I just reset all my node lists earlier and they aren’t populating very fast so I think my window node is have RX issues.

[fast spruce]

How to reset node list

Mine is filled with garbage

I'm sending this note to router

I drove to kilometers away and I could not get the note to route the message to the note that was on my room

Okay I set it to router mode and I also turned on Wi-Fi and connected it to my Wi-Fi network so I can remote in via VPN to manage it

Let's gooooo

Connected via ip

[brazen spear]

Heltec has battery pads on the bottom of the node

[brazen spear]

We're trying to keep all of these set to client atm.

[brazen spear]

All of these are set to client despite being awesome roofs and infrastructure locations.

[fast spruce]

Yea when I use them USB serial break

And I still don't get battery percentage

[jaunty harness]

try disabling wifi and seeing if the serial works

[fast spruce]

I went 2km away and I was able to talk to the rooftop but not the sense cap under it

[fast spruce]

I tried this before wifi

[jaunty harness]

and if you are gonna insist on just running an infra role despite people suggesting it's not the right thing could you at least use ROUTER_LATE which doesn't preempt CLIENTs

I understand you want to make it as useful and beneficial as possible to the mesh but until you actually understand the implications its far more likely to make things worse for the mesh

[fast spruce]

I'm gonna switch to client

[fast spruce]

Why does the role exist

If it just harms the mesh

[jaunty harness]

Thank you!

[fast spruce]

In what scenario does it help

[jaunty harness]

Common scenario is for extended long (>50+ miles) from mountain tops connecting valleys on either side that would otherwise be blocked

It’s also somewhat legacy from when there were fewer devices, but I too came very close to setting up my first node as repeater thinking it would be great help but then read the docs and realized clients repeat

[fast spruce]

They need to rename this stuff

[jaunty harness]

the docs touch over things briefly but this blog post better explains thing

[fast spruce]

Can u help me with my batt issues

I have a 3000 milliamp hour battery It came with the kit but when I plug it in it seems like it overrides the USBC

[jaunty harness]

That I would happy to but can’t until tomorrow night unfortunately - long day feeling ill and need to be up early tomorrow

[fast spruce]

I'll use ollama and figure this out

[jaunty harness]

Yeah just rough day and literally hopping in shower and going to sleep

It’s a standard LiPo pack though? I can at least mull it over in meantime

[fast spruce]

Yep

Makerworld

[jaunty harness]

K nothing crazy there at all

[fast spruce]

3000 milliamp hour battery installed

It glows

Lol

[fast spruce]

Your wish has been granted

How do I setup charge limits and stuff so battery does not charge past 80

[amber edge]

yes they 100% need to rename the roles. they're incredibly misleading

[fast spruce]

Want the node get super hot and destroy these batteries

[abstract iron]

I understand ROUTER more each time someone, usually you, explains a use case for it, but it still makes me wonder - do we even need it at all anymore if we have ROUTER_LATE?

(I find the docs on ROUTER pretty confusing but reading comprehension outside of a narrow slice of work hours isn't my thing)

[fast spruce]

This is underrated

[abstract iron]

is there a way I'm missing to see which node got me the message? I tried holding on it. since we are getting hop info now ...

(like hold-touch)

[fast spruce]

Should I enable s&f on my rooftop nodes

Or on my edc nodes

[hazy nexus]

afaik no because the packets do not contain that information, basically only the message and hop data so it doesn't loop forever

also related to why trace is so intensive

[gritty knot]

Yes. The whole point of ROUTER is that it preempts everything else. It's what you use when you know that your site is the best one in the area, and want to force everything else to go preferentially via that site.

It works excellently when deployed properly, and causes all kinds of problems when deployed poorly.

[fast spruce]

Received from Jackson heights

[fast spruce]

I'm ordering more antennas for rooftop nodes

What the best one for nyc

Pole mount is easy for me

[mortal wind]

https://a.co/d/bcOY0Op

Even though listing is focused on Helium, antenna should work fine as its LoRa compatible to 915MHz

[abstract iron]

what node id are you

[jaunty harness]

Alfa 915MHz is pretty popular choice though uses N-Type connector instead of SMA, but also meant for outdoor installs

[hazy nexus]

5db right?

[jaunty harness]

OH! I did some googling for your Heltec v3 issue - apparently they just slapped a USB-C port and didn't add the correct resistors on the datalines to properly negotiate USB PD, so it's worth trying your cheapest usb-a -> usb-c cable/adaptor. also it's apparently limited to 100mAh charge rate so you're gonna need couple of a solid day of sun to get that fully recharged

[jaunty harness]

they claim 5dBi but most spec it more realistically ~3-4

[hazy nexus]

nooooo ... massive pet peeve

do they realize how little it costs to do it right smh

[jaunty harness]

$0.01/part x 2 parts x (# of units sold) = someone's holiday bonus

[fast spruce]

cool

[hazy nexus]

interesting. Actually I was worrying maybe gain was too high for up on a hill but in that case it's probably good...

[fast spruce]

so 3dbi is good for nyc?

because more donuts?

or smth

im stupid

explain like im 5

[hazy nexus]

also the time to design it... maybe an extra 10min for a new engineer?

[hazy nexus]

Higher dbi is more directional, generally looks like a "narrower beam"

[jaunty harness]

heh you got it - 3 is good for most installs until our infra is better built out and we know which nodes are good candidated for an infra role, and then getting higher gain antennas on the further out nodes to help them reach those infra nodes

[fast spruce]

lol this worked i was using usbc to c cables i swtched to a cheap usb a to c and issues fixed

i have coma accross mutiple stuff like this

in the IT world

[hazy nexus]

Yeah most USB-A supplies are always on

USB-OTG cables are the secret hack btw
USB-C supply --> OTG Adapter --> USB-A to whatever

[fast spruce]

when usb c was first inrtoduded it was just the connector

it hade no e marker chips and stuff

[hazy nexus]

even in USB-A the charging standards are a disaster

[fast spruce]

yea

[hazy nexus]

old iPod Classic (30pin) will not charge without certain resistors or diodes in charger iirc

[fast spruce]

after tons of reasearch i remeber my edc power bank was a baseus

bc they supported tons of standers

ds

i went through ankers and other brasnds because their usb c spec suggs

[hazy nexus]

I'm very happy with the UGreen ones I have. if I need to force output I use OTG Cable... can even use A-to-C after that 😆

[fast spruce]

especially anker unless u use apple anmker supports like no other charging standards

[jaunty harness]

yeah, a lot of power banks don't work good for nodes because they draw so little power the power bank thinks its disconnected and shuts down. Austin guys are super in Voltaic power banks for their deploys because they don't have that problem (and Voltaic is also based outta Brooklyn, so supports local business!)

[fast spruce]

another baseus feature

they have a mode that will keep the powwr pins powered even at 0 watts

[jaunty harness]

nice!

[fast spruce]

you have to pres the button 10 mtimes or ssomething

came in clutch so many times

[hazy nexus]

this little POWER-Z tester is awesome... tells which charging standards a supply supports, and can even read the tags in cables. A bit expensive for a normal consumer tho

[jaunty harness]

voltaic's are also designed to be fed from solar so it's kinda nice simple solution, add a panel and node - costsly solution, but makes a simple deploy

[fast spruce]

i have a similar version of this

[hazy nexus]

Nice. My bigger UGreen bank has that but the little one doesn't.

[hazy nexus]

Oh also connected to PC you can watch the USB-PD handshake which isn't super useful most of the time but it is extremely cool 😆

[fast spruce]

i used to daily carry this type of thing but then i lost my basus power bank and then when i boght another one it told me the volts and amps not just the whatts

so i stopped daily carrying it

but its still a good tool

[hazy nexus]

oh I have used a bunch of those little meters yeah

can get those nice & cheap too

[fast spruce]

im trying to consolidate everything in my edc kit

so i got rid of eth tester and radio analiozer in favor of a flipper and a few dev boards

also i used to carry a mini keyboard for interfsacing with servers

[hazy nexus]

yeah the screenshot above is not really a good EDC, too expensive and excessive, not as reliable as the simple ones. It's good for reading limits but overkill for measuring.

[fast spruce]

now i use the flipper for that too

[jaunty harness]

so like you use the onscreen keyboard + rotary dial 4way joystick thing?

[hazy nexus]

I'm tempted to get one just for that type of stuff

[fast spruce]

no its kind of like a tv remote where u have to go through the letters but its enough to get into bios and change boot order and stuff and enought to import ssh keys so i can switch to my laptop

i have a macro on it that exicutes the commands to add my ssh key and just use that

its barely enough

[jaunty harness]

ahh k, yeah i wasn't sure if you had a like a custom bad-usb script to do some things or used the onscreen kb (which works, but is kinda painful i'd imagine for more complex commands)

[fast spruce]

but anything to carry lighter

[fast spruce]

carrying a mini keyboard sugged

[jaunty harness]

yeah, flipper is def smaller and has more uses - like putting all your NFC access badges into a single device

[fast spruce]

u wish

nfc is kinda not good

basically most sites i work at use unifi and unifi access keys cant be copyed over

[jaunty harness]

i've lots of luck reading and have used it for playback a couple times 🤷

[fast spruce]

encryption and stuff on the actuall card

[jaunty harness]

Ahhh yeah newer system don't work cause they actually address the flaws

[fast spruce]

very good for zelda tho

i have 2 nodes on me one in my backpack and one in my pocket should i set them to client mute

sisnce im very close to them most of the time

i just need to be able to ping the bag and track it

[jaunty harness]

1 client + rest client_mute, otherwise they can easily end up trying to xmit at same time and end up not xmitting at all

[fast spruce]

i have on oin my house roof too

so my edc shoudl be clent mute?

or

how work

basically what mode shiould i put the tracker devices in

i just want to be able to track

and sebd the alert thing so it rings

[jaunty harness]

oh hrmm, that's an interesting situation, if the bag wasn't moving around client_mute for sure but if it's moving around probably leave on client and let the roof relay instead of constantly flipping role (which would be correct but a pain of a solution)

there's a TRACKER role which will greatly improve battery life

[fast spruce]

im try this quicly

see how it goes

what does tracker do?

wake from sleep update pos then back to sleep

[jaunty harness]

prioritizes position packets, don't think it does power/sensor telemetry

[fast spruce]

oh

and doesent relay anyrthign right

[jaunty harness]

hrmm not 100% but i think yeah it also doesn't rebroadcast - that would make sense as part of it's power savings

[fast spruce]

can it still receive pings

so i can ring the tracker

with the piezo buzzer

[jaunty harness]

also not sure on that, someone in #help probably knows though

[fast spruce]

ok

anyway today is some good weather

im putting up a node in woodside

with the same 5.8dbi antenna

since i already have it on hand

exact same build as the last heltec v3 and that 5.8db antenna with a 3kmah battery and pow poeer

for the future 2 nodes im gonna put up what should the parts list be instead

they will also be poe so no pwer buget

[jaunty harness]

hrmm, a RAK would be good - for ~$30 its a very well tunes for meshtastic device and they last - Zumble has one in AMR...1 or 2 that's coming up on 2 years and my own first RAK is still working 2 years later and that includes having ripped the Bluetooth IPEX connector off and over-fed the solar output

[abstract iron]

this damn rain heh

my portable solar is down to 22 percent bat

[fast spruce]

Oof

[fast spruce]

Raknis kinda confusing

They look like legos

Like you are supposed to get each device separately?

I dunno

I'm kinda lost

[mortal wind]

There is a complete kit available on RAKWireless that has everything in one for 100.

https://store.rakwireless.com/products/wishmesh-meshtastic-solar-repeater-mini?index=6&intsource=rak_store&intmedium=organic&intcampaign=meshtastic_collection_page&intterm=meshtastic_range_extenders&intcontent=product_image

They do have al la carte options thoug to build your own kit..

The WisMesh Repeater Mini is a ready-to-use Meshtastic repeater designed to extend the range of the Meshtastic LoRa Mesh network. The combination of a WisBlock Meshtastic Starter Kit, a 3200 mAh battery, and our Unify Enclosure with Solar Panel enables deployment in areas without a permanent power supply.

Built with an IP67-rated rigid enclosure and IP67 connectors, it is ideal for outdoor deployment. The WisMesh Repeater Mini uses the WisBlock RAK4631 nRF52 LoRa module, pre-flashed with the Meshtastic firmware. Everything required to get started is setting up the WisMesh Repeater Mini with the Meshtastic app on your mobile device through BLE.

[fast spruce]

Can anyone try making contact

Second node in Woodside going online in a hour

[mortal wind]

I’m currently not nearby, but I do I have a node with short name ebfb

Node should show up on discovery

[jaunty harness]

that is very apt! they can be built up like legos cause they different modules/sensors that just plug in, so you can start with a baseboard and then add a GPS or RTC or BME680 that slots right in or connect one up via usual means (serial for GPS, i2c for RTC/BME).
there's the 4631 which is the main parts, nRF52840 mcu + SX1262 radio, and that goes onto a baseboard like the 19003 or 19007 which has the slots for the different modules. 4631 + 19007 is the combo I have in two nodes but there's also the BoardOne which is basically the same cpu + board but designed to work good with (an optional) 1.3" i2c OLED display

just checked desk node's db, no ebfb or 4e57 yet (its got 304 nodes at the moment)

are you able to see FR2 or ASRA? they're the east most nodes i regularly see

[fast spruce]

We all know the drill

Insane antenna size for that small mcu

Don't you need like boosters or something for such antenna

Like 150mw is nothing

Imagine sending 8w or something

[jaunty harness]

can't send 8W without ham license which means no encryption

[fast spruce]

Wrvx943

My license

But I think you can't encrypt if u do that

That defeats the whole purpose

[jaunty harness]

oh nice! yeah no encryption outside of... "control channels" I think is the exception, and yeah you're basically just talking to other hams which you can do on better freqs

unlicensed is limited to 30db transmission device + 6db antenna, but people have done 150miles with .15w + 2-3dbi antennas

[fast spruce]

Any changes

Besides client

For rooftop node with unlimited power buget

What about s&p

[jaunty harness]

i don't mess with power settings personally, defaults work well enough for me

[fast spruce]

And neighbor

Info

These 2?

[jaunty harness]

don't use either S&F or Neighbor Info

[fast spruce]

Ok

Any reason?

[jaunty harness]

I prefer the RF purity + window node is a Linux SBC and currently set to 1000 nodeDB and 100 messages saved

[jaunty harness]

S&F in particular needs PSRAM which basically rules out nRF52840 devices which are probably 95% of my nodes

[fast spruce]

I'm gonna stuff some silica gel in here

[jaunty harness]

good move! some people get extra crazy and conformal coating on the node but that's a bit extreme for me personally (i also like to tinker way too much)

[fast spruce]

Starting the trek to the rooftop

I hate working outside

Because you have every tool except the one that you need

[jaunty harness]

better now than next week when it'll be 90s 😬

[fast spruce]

Ooooof

Yeah I'm hold off on the other two nodes

Cuz those two I want to actually make nice

They're going in much more high traffic areas

I don't want to put up some garbage that will harm more then help

[jaunty harness]

more clients help, higher up they are the better - but I also get the wanting to do it right the first time and then not having to revisit

[fast spruce]

Yep

Realistically how many nodes will be needed to make New York City mesh usable

[jaunty harness]

depends on the node/build/location - ~300 is the # i've heard the devs toss around for when LongFast and default settings starts to implode which is one of the reasons we've discussed switching to a different preset (such as MediumFast) which is ~1/2 the airtime for ~10% loss in distance and distance isn't our problem as much as the legacy firmware/devices and interference from other things using 915MHz (Helium, Amazon Sidewalk, etc..)

[fast spruce]

I'm going to run the POE cables and mount the box and I'm done

Node info

Woodside nyc

Enjoy

[fast spruce]

This is the good stuff

[fast spruce]

How to disable oled

[jaunty harness]

yeah the "rechargeable" bags, especially the ones that change color are amazing - which reminds me it's about time to refresh the ones in the filament bins

[fast spruce]

Haha

[jaunty harness]

check under display settings, there's on that controls how long it's on but I forget how low you can set it (0 is the default of like 10?15?mins - so try like 1)

[fast spruce]

Not my best work

But I ain't trying to drill into brick today

[jaunty harness]

hammer drill 8)

[fast spruce]

I have one

Makita

Lazy tho

Look this is temporary fix

Nothing more permanent than a temporary fix lol

[fast spruce]

On another note

What color are you

I use teal

[jaunty harness]

I've got Ryobi, works fine for me - when I did commercial electrical as an apprentice my boss was exclusively Makita or Bosch

[fast spruce]

Yea I got grandfathered into makita

Dad used makita

His dad used makita

The only thing that I prefer about Makita over any tool brand is the trigger response and that's about it

Is the signal on my 2 nodes good

[jaunty harness]

yeah any SNR > 0 is really good, RSSI can down to like -145 and still be usable cause lora works below noise floor

[abstract iron]

Hasan I don't have you in WB but I'll keep an eye out

pork my kid has a class near you i hit the femto heh

[jaunty harness]

oh hah! I sent a reply ack but like an hour later as missed it

[fast spruce]

What is ack

I see them coming all the time

What mean ack

[fast spruce]

What's ur node

These are my nodes

[daring moth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acknowledgement_(data_networks)

[abstract iron]

all ZLL* ZLLA ZLLS ZLL1 ZLLP

[fast spruce]

Found u

Sent

@abstract iron

[abstract iron]

yeh that's my window outside node. almost died without sun

i brought it inside to power up

I didn't get your msg (prior to bringing it inside)

[fast spruce]

Whoever sent these received in Jackson heights queens

[fast spruce]

So will we switch presets

Or is it super hard because you have to access every remote node

[abstract iron]

is any rpi3 hat besides femtofox (out of stock) any good?

[jaunty harness]

first we want to test multiple presets to see which is actually best instead of jumping once and then jumping again - make a data driven decision instead of arbirtray one basically. MediumFast we've tested a little bit in Williamsburg and went pretty good but HAQER also had amazing location at the time. the rest is a matter of communicating it with an appropriate timeframe cause not everyone is here in discord or pays attention to all the channels blabbering. also leaving some nodes on LongFast so we don't abandon and new users who fire up their new device and it's dead by* periodically broadcast the preset change

This blog post covers the experiences of some better organized meshes switching

[fast spruce]

@jaunty harness

What node is this

[jaunty harness]

Oh hah I was just running updates and shut it down, that’s a Hackberry Pi with a Faketec crammed inside

I built a second for my buddy, Pro-Meshro fits much easier (more PCB to remove to snug in the cavity since it uses a smaller radio chip)

[fast spruce]

Bro that looks insane

Pi0 is cool but prob battery hog

[jaunty harness]

Goes a couple hours easy, screen is bigger hog but easy to turn on/off via top button. And uses two Nokia batteries so you can hot swap

Even works with the internal node and a USB meshstick because … I had to try and I know others have done 4 usb radio raspi setups

It needs some more updates but I cobbled together a zero2 handleheld before using a Blackberry keyboard from the same guy that eventually released the hackberry, and his is soo much better than my jacked together mess 😃

That one goes 8hrs off 3k lipo and used a pisugar “ups” board so can query charge which is like the only thing better about myne

[fast spruce]

Damn

Is there any way to limit the notifications on the Android message testing app

It's so annoying

I just want to receive notice for DMs and stuff

Not every new node detected

[jaunty harness]

Maybe in the notification settings? You can do it on iOS

Yeah Settings > Apps > Meshtastic

[fast spruce]

I'm in android

Oof

No like I want dm notifs

[jaunty harness]

Yeah I just checked my tablet

[fast spruce]

Just not new node notifs

[jaunty harness]

There’s specific alert options including new node

[fast spruce]

What do I press

[jaunty harness]

Android settings not the app

[jaunty harness]

Hrmm what happens if you tap the blue “allow notifications”

[fast spruce]

Turns off all notifs

Samsung be like

Ooof

[jaunty harness]

Huh im on older android but there should be there somewhere

Search in #android I’m sure it’s come up before

[fast spruce]

Alr

[jaunty harness]

iOS it’s in app but less options

[fast spruce]

I'm gonna connect the ANI1 NODE to ollama

And the ai interact with pple

In my testing it was crazy

The meshtastic node sends all sorts of data over

So the AI had some insane context

Like position and stuff

[jaunty harness]

Someone has done that before, pretty sure it’s on GitHub

[fast spruce]

Ya

I tried it but only serial works

Not ip

[jaunty harness]

Ahh

[fast spruce]

It's a simple python scrypt

Not too bad

[jaunty harness]

Yeah it predates the udp stuff too, could just have it listen for it

[fast spruce]

I have a 2070 super in the machine as well as a 4060ti 16gig

If pple actually utilize it I'll swap them out for better cards

Prob a pair of 4080s

I get them for cheap sometimes

Thx to my job

Some clients will just throw out perfectly good hw

That's how I scored the 4060ti

I told the dude I'll take the cars for 100$

Lol

Perks of IT

[echo siren]

oh wow that's awesome. I just ordered the CM5 version of the hackberry and I'm looking to do the same thing. Did you just wire to an existing USB port on the hackberry board?

[fiery girder]

Hi all. Just picked up a couple of T1000Es to start playing around with Meshtastic. You may see me show up as KE2EHU (my amateur callsign, though I’m not using in licensed mode due to all the limitations).

I’m live in Forest Hills and have limited transmit ability, but I was able to pick up quite a few nodes last night.

In midtown during the workday and hoping to have better luck from my office.

[jaunty harness]

nice! 5 will be a massive upgrade - and yeah just soldered to the USB port for powered and data (so I can still update firmware). the SPI lines are tied up by the display and would need a pcb w/pogopins sticking out the back which isn't as stealthy

[brazen spear]

This is today

[jaunty harness]

Welcome! is amazing RX but weak TX (it's so smol!) - just checked my window node and not seeing you in the active node list but takes a while to sift through the 500 nodes in it's DB (active + previously seen)

[fiery girder]

Thanks! Yeah, I had read the tx is weak, but it was an easy way to get started and see what’s out there. I started showing up on some of the maps ok to MQTT enabled, so someone somewhere must be hearing me.

I don’t think I’ve had much luck transmitting in the primary channel otherwise, though.

[jaunty harness]

yeah more likely to work in midtown where something else is more likely to hear - and they are a great device for sure, switched to it for my EDC in place a RAK, much more convenient to carry in this belt holster

[bronze wren]

Trying to find some new rooftops in queens but still stuck finding good access. I think this summer will be good progress for queens meshing though.

[fast spruce]

I've got quite a few

Reach out in dms

[fast spruce]

How u got 500 nodes in DB I got a little less than 100

Damn

Insane

[bronze wren]

I usually run resets before I get to 300 but I find mobile nodes can easily get 200+ in app (on node memory is limited to fewer).

I want to see what I can do to improve nodes I can direct access rather than just remote admin. So for now I'm just working with spaces I can get to so firmware updates and hardware troubleshooting can be done (enclosures, batteries, solar panels, antennas, filters, etc)

As I get better perf I'd be willing to donate a node or two but it's not there yet. I do like my femtofox node (even though I find the maintenance super annoying on it, it works well, I just need a filter for RX).

I've been running a node sans-solar, on batteries only for weeks and it's only had one issue requiring a reboot. So it's almost stable.

[mortal wind]

Aye, Mesh is picking up activity.

Harlem Relay fix really did help

If I reset my nodeDB, would my private key go along with it?

[jaunty harness]

meshtasticd lets you set arbitrary limit on the nodeDB size since it doesn't have the memory constraints of nRF52840 (80 nodes) and ESP32 (100-250 depending on the specifical ESP32)

[jaunty harness]

it shouldn't, just loses all the nodes included favorites/ignored ones but always good to be sure your privateKey is backed up

[amber edge]

i find it demoralizing how one or two misconfigured nodes can drastically impact the mesh. it's hard to feel motivated to expand the mesh when all it takes is one person in the area to bring it all down

[jaunty harness]

Yeah Harlem Relay but also nod to GHFC which seems to be well positioned for me at least - seeing my TRs pretty split between it and SST to southern Brooklyn nodes and those nodes also now being 1 hop

[amber edge]

(GHFC is me)

[jaunty harness]

I know! 😄 Just confirming it's been a great addition!

And def feel you on the impact of the legacy nodes, that's a main driver to switching presets - leave them behind

[daring moth]

My smartphone looks different on that screen:

[amber edge]

hot take but i hope a future version of meshtastic firmware allows blocking retransmissions of routers

[daring moth]

Yeah, at least a bitfield to request them to use the CLIENT routing algorithm.

[bronze wren]

Airtime is airtime though. Treating it just like CLIENT might be better.

Router priority should be a channel setting IMO.

Setup a channel with that if your community wants to use routers.

Not sure where we have flags left for that in the messages.

[jaunty harness]

Fired up the Pixel8A (Andoird 15 / CalyxOS 6.7.23) - Settings > Notifications > Meshtastic and it's the same options from the older android Tablet last night 🤷

I think all the bits are taken, like the smart routing was only able to be squeezed into 2.x instead put off until 3.0 because something else was removed

i think the prob is basically ROUTER/REPEATER will still be on the shorter/infra re-transmission timer so all devices would need something like a bit to indicate it's cool to ignore that old fw's retransmission and perform normal CLIENT retransmission/flood routing timing/logic

[amber edge]

couldn't it happen just as easily to the new presets?

[jaunty harness]

oh it could, but one of the things I personally want is an agreement if we see ROUTER_CLIENTs switch over we mass ignore them

[amber edge]

i don't think that's sustainable imho the bigger the mesh grows. that would require regular active monitoring and remote administration

is this on meshtastic dev's radar? that's the only hope i have for this mesh is if it's actually fixed at the firmware level

[jaunty harness]

yeah it takes some work/coord but if you're active in here or on the mesh you should be able to get the message and then adjust when you can - couple days here and there of deminished mesh would still be better than the 24/7 we have now

[jaunty harness]

that i do not know, but i'd like to think that realistically we switch and never see those nodes again since they're basically abandoned now anyway

[amber edge]

do we have a list right now of nodes we should ignore? if not could we start that?

[jaunty harness]

BA64 was the one on SI that was spamming metrics every couple secs but seems to have disappeared. Other than that i've had my eye on oopoo30 and Brooklyn Solar Node which are both ROUTER_CLIENT. I think Gardener has some contact with Gobo who is other ROUTER_CLIENT see a lot within the city. But then there's also the REPEATERs which don't show up in node list and would probably need to fox hunt as they tend to show up as 0xfffffff which would kinda break routing if apps even allowed us to ignore

[mortal wind]

because of the nature of flood routing as the focus on the project, instead of route tracing.

[amber edge]

list started https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sq3BRJoor_qA5V5I3R2snx2DRKBBFkDJpVh_uA24b2Y/edit?gid=0#gid=0

[mortal wind]

@amber edge can I DM?

[amber edge]

@mortal wind yep

[daring moth]

Here's a hotter take: Meshtastic 3.x should just be renaming the user facing names of CLIENT_MUTE to CLIENT, CLIENT to ROUTER, and ROUTER to INFRASTRUCTURE, with the internal identifiers remaining the same. No actual breaking changes. Then, Meshtastic 4.x should be whatever the devs originally planned for Meshtastic 3.x.

[amber edge]

i could see that causing a lot of confusion. they should just pick new names altogether if they are going to rename

[jaunty harness]

Agree in sentiment but there’s also ROUTER_LATE which has a lot of utility but doesn’t fit into that simplification of “all infra roles bad”

Also our situation here isn’t everyone’s - Vancouver and Hawaii for instance run infra roles properly to the mesh’s benefit

[fast spruce]

I hope none of my nodes do this

I would hate for my one node to kill comms

[jaunty harness]

yeah that's why we steered you to CLIENT

[jaunty harness]

added the !userid for oopoo and bsn, and a new column for the nodes's suspected location

[fast spruce]

Damn is there a way we can add this to our setting to specifically not route via that node or ignore it automatically

[shut junco]

Do you know if you need any experience in amateur radio (or Meshtastic) to attend? Is there an RSVP?

[jaunty harness]

ignore only stops your from acknowledging it's transmission but it stull hears your TX unfortunately, if you have the !userid it's trivial to use the meshtastic python-cli and it's --set-ignored-node !xxxxxxxx option though

[fast spruce]

do we have the use ID?

[abstract iron]

can't make this but very interesting would be happy to hear more from anyone who can attend

[jaunty harness]

for cli yeah, it expects the !userid - in the mobile apps you'd have to have heard a NODEINFO packet so it's full name/!userid are in your device's DB so it can then be ignored

[fast spruce]

@jaunty harness

Should I use the RAK or the t beams

For Jamaica

And Longislnad

[jaunty harness]

RAK for sure, T-Beam uses the older SX127x radio which has issues with newest LR1110/LR1120 radios because of an earlier decision by the devs to use a non-standard sync word (which should be fixed in 3.x, but is an issue right now)

[abstract iron]

man what the hell comms am I missing should I up my hops to 9 (kidding). did we get our first Spanish mesh traffic also??!!

545c

[jaunty harness]

huh, didn't see it here - last msg was hour or so ago🌹 did a test and I ack'd

[fast spruce]

My node 2 went offline

Let's goo

Guess who gets to go to a rooftop

In this heat

Yay 🎉

F in chat

[jaunty harness]

hey at least it's only 80F, next week when it's 90F ... F THAT 😄

[amber edge]

All of the non-clients in my personal node. Should I add them all the list of nodes to ignore?

[glossy pine]

nothing wrong with client_mute

[amber edge]

Router is at the bottom of that screenshot

I agree there is nothing wrong with client_mute

[fast spruce]

Alr I was able to fix it remotely by power cycling poe

Then logging into web ui

And punshing a restart command

[fervent nebula]

okay, this is just absurd. This node is installed south of trenton, NJ and somehow just heard a NODEINFO from AMR1?

[midnight mural]

What’s that airplane icon?

[fervent nebula]

that's from several days ago

[jaunty harness]

loelin and austincolby - awesome to meet you guys earlier!

[jaunty harness]

Louis is out in NJ so that one isn't impactful for us, I believe they're also on new enough firmware that it's just cosmetic (ROUTER_CLIENT was changed in 2.4.x IIRC to just act like a CLIENT but let people think they're special). Gobo I'd leave on, that node kinda goes up/down intermittantly and I think Gardener has a means to reach out to them (forgot to ask when we were just hanging out at the PIT/Emergency Radio talk)

ooopoo30 and brooklyn solar node are def the next targets... maybe time to fire up one of the unused nodes and nameshame them? 🤔

[karmic junco]

hola

[fast spruce]

Bro

The OP

Damn

[karmic junco]

Lol it's not that big a deal. I've got great, if not the best folks in here.

Making me feel like a dumb arse most of the time, but I kinda like it.

It's so freaking muggy

[midnight mural]

We could be in the south…..I was wet in orlando last week. Ugh

[karmic junco]

It's only getting worse from here

[fast spruce]

@jaunty harness can u make a bom for the nodes that are gonna go in Jamaica

Try to stay on the cheap side

But I want to use rak

And a nice antenna

[jaunty harness]

• RAK WisMesh BoardONE $29.97
• Alfa AOA-915-5ACM Antenna $17.97
• Soshine 6W Panel $12.99 (has 5V usb output which is safer than feeding the 6V output to the solar connector on the BoardONE)

add ufl/ipex -> n-type connector, enclosure and a battery

OH and Proxicast to seal things up though silicone caulk/hot glue suffice in a pinch

[midnight mural]

I really think the t1e is disappointing. I got some great RX tonight during the pizza party, felt I got little TX in return

I just need a smol RAK with 3 day battery

[jaunty harness]

it's a better secondary than primary for sure, but it's so much bang for the buck

[midnight mural]

I will not disagree

I want a solid daily driver

[jaunty harness]

heh that's the rak 19003 miniboard + 4631 mcu+radio and like 1000mAh battery

pretty sure muzi.works has something like that.. the R1 I think is?

yeah the R1 - https://muzi.works/products/r1-with-external-antenna

[midnight mural]

It’s like my WisMesh Pocket, which I like, but with out a screen, which I like even more.

I may have to snag one of these. I do like the tinkering, but I also love turn key solutions 🍕🍕

[fast spruce]

The 2 nodes I put up def helped

There was no way I would be able to receive these normally

[fast spruce]

Crazy that a 7in antenna will outperform the 3 ft long ones I got

Bigger ≠ better

[fiery girder]

I’m pretty sure ideal antenna length is aligned with the wavelength. US Meshtastic is the 33 cm band, I think. I suspect the 7” antenna is resonant on that frequency. The 3’ may not be?

[fast spruce]

How does wismeah pocket stack against a heltec meshpocket

I bout 2 meshpockets a few days ago

For edc

[karmic junco]

There's always the echo

[fast spruce]

How do y'all reliabily send messages

Like I can never send anything

But I can receive alot

Or is this just classic t1000e behavior

[amber edge]

Going to find out how unconnected Riis beach is today

[rare sparrow]

T1000e has REALLY good recording, okay sending

So if you are at the edge of everything

You might still able to receive a lot but not send

[jaunty harness]

The 5dBi is a bit of an exaggeration but it’s a very solid antenna well tuned for 915MHz / Meshtastic without getting into the true 5dBi+ big ones

[abstract iron]

4422 is my t1e !

last night I was outside and saw over 30 percent chan util in Williamsburg

[midnight mural]

I’m not on the ESP32 train….I use WisBlock gear

[midnight mural]

It’s classic t1e behavior. I am really thinking about the Muzi R1 @jaunty harness mentioned earlier, looks sleek

[jaunty harness]

same on the femto WITH the RF filter - 35% during the pizza party

[rare sparrow]

Are they selling only the case 🥺

[jaunty harness]

they released the H1 and H2T cases on printables but not the R1

[abstract iron]

pork are you 883c

[jaunty harness]

I remember Zumble had some issues with pocket link on his R1 but seems to have gotten past that and has been EDC for months

[abstract iron]

I couldn't see your nodeinfo but I thought putting a "👂" out there was your thing

[midnight mural]

Does not look like it, just two frequency versions in different colors

[abstract iron]

so I guessed

[jaunty harness]

that or 🙉 🙊 8p

[abstract iron]

heh heh

yeah I was sitting outside at Mexi on N 9 th and I had so many messages but also bizarre high chan util

[jaunty harness]

yeah the channel % being that high was very abnormal, and even an infra role would defer TX at 35%

[abstract iron]

looks like my solar node was seeing inthe 20s at approx that time

we need an emoji for a melting node heh

[jaunty harness]

https://tenor.com/bYKSB.gif

[mortal wind]

you’re definitely right about the node giving a really weird GPS coordinate to a different state altogether. They did put in California.

i’m resetting my node DB :

[jaunty harness]

haha you can just delete the pksb node and the map will sort itself out

(or just lie and flex on everyone for you went to top of empire state building with 2W radio and 10dBi antenna)

oh, did you only have the T-Deck powered up last night? I noticed I had picked up WARDEN direct on the window node

[mortal wind]

oh I reflashed it with a new private key so I might need some time to reregister it on the mesh. I’m using a newer version of meshtastic.

[wet shard]

I wish there was a way to request nodes to update their public keys in a push manner. At least something in band. Especially with all the auto-favoriting and whatnot

[jaunty harness]

they should with a NODEINFO which includes the public vs telemetry/location which are just !userid as I understand