#MCC-IP with your own switches?

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spring bramble
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We have sold a few solutions with MCC-IP and Cisco switches, all bought from NetApp. Now this is not like in the "old days" where NetApp was the "single point of contact" in regards to support. NetApp is actually just acting as a reseller in this regard, and you have to handle everything with Cisco directly. Which leads me to the question of sourcing the switches our self. Of cause using the supported models and recommended IOS and configuration etc.. Together with the fact that a MCC-IP quote is typically more than a 2 x HA setup (even if you take the switches out of the MCC-IP quote) (maybe this is just true for us... we are just a partner/reseller and have a distributor in between us and NetApp)... anyway there is potentially a not insignificant saving in sourcing the switches our self... and just ordering two HA systems, then setting them up in a MCC-IP setup. But are there any downsides in regard to support? My guess is that NetApp support will help us as long as there is support on the controllers and not even "care" about the switches... and if something is wrong on the swithces, they will point towards Cisco... ? 😉

fleet finch
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First, did you check the new 12-port Cisco switches (C9336C-FX2)? They are quite a bit cheaper than the "full" Cisco backend switches for MCC.
That being said, you can of course use your own switches as MCC backend, with some caveats. It's called "MetroCluster Compliant Switches" and there are some requirements

  • Your switches will have to support QoS, ECN, L2FC and order-preserving load-balancing, and you have to configure that yourself correctly.
  • NetApp Support will obviously not help with any switch-related issues
  • You can only build 4-node NetroClusters whis way, as the clusters must be configured as Switchless clusters (the cluster network is not allowed to go through Compliant switches). That also means no 4->8->4 upgrades in the future

We have done this a lot in the past and it has worked quite okay in most cases. It's still easier to just use NetApp's switches as "black-box" solution because you can be sure there won't be any custom stuff done on the switches

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Note that you cannot simply buy the switches somewhere else and use them as if you bought them from NetApp. That will not be a supported configuration, even if you do the cabling and config the exact same way. There are some different opinions out there, some people say you can get it supported via fPVR, but we have been unable to do so and have always been told "no support if you don't buy the switches through us". Then again, since they started offering the 12-port limited switches, it hasn't been that much of an issue anymore as you cannot get those switches from Cisco, and they are really cheap compared to the full 36-port ones

spring bramble
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I saw the 12 port version and it may make sense.. unless you configure it with both nodes and storage shelfs, which of cause takes up more space... We have setup a few C800 MCC-IP where the disks are inthernal, but if you want to use A C60 I guess you will need to connect the shelfs to the switch?

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I understand that NetApp will not support the switch that are not purchased with them... but do they even support it when you do? The systems we have, we had to ask Cisco for support and not NetApp... NetApp even tells you that fact if you need to download new IOS... But just to be clear, you are telling me that NetApp has some "secret" and "special" configuration that you only get from the switches they sell? 😉 So if I had to buy the same switch with a normalt Cisco reseller and did a "copy/restore" of a configuration from a NetApp supplied switch, they would not act the same? I am close to calling this "BS" 😉 I can understand that you might not have access to the MCC tools and switch configuration from NetApp if you didn't buy the switches from them... which I guess makes snese. But I really doubt that the switches are anything special at all? That beeing said, the MCC's I have worked with over the years only had issues at the start of the setup... normally if the intersite likes were "sold" as dark fibers but turned out someone "mixed" a MUX in between which could cause issues... but even then with Brocade switches, the switches were nothing special, yet if they broke, you would just open a case with NetApp and they would send you a spare... which isn't true any longer, which is a bit sad... when they also promote (or many not any longer) FlexPOD where Cisco and NetApp are pals and they claim(ed) they you only needed one POC no matter what problem you had with the system... anyway long story longer, we will see if the 12 port switches are at a batter price point... and just a last oddity... the LR 100G Optics apparently cannot be purchased with NetApp so we had to buy them separately on the C800 MCC's we setup... of cause Cisco branded at a "hell of a price" 😉

fleet finch
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if you want to use A C60 I guess you will need to connect the shelfs to the switch?
Depends on the number of shelves. You can connect one or two shelves to the controllers directly without issues. It was almost always enough for our customers that we didn't need switch-attached shelves.
I understand that NetApp will not support the switch that are not purchased with them
You misunderstood. They won't support the whole MetroCluster solution. Yes it's weird, and no, there is no technical reason behind it.
you are telling me that NetApp has some "secret" and "special" configuration that you only get from the switches they sell?
No, where did I say that? Again, the config is the same yet they still won't support it.

Again, we tried this for a couple of our customers, tried getting PVRs, and we were always denied so in the end we just gave up and went the "Compliant Switches" (aka "Open Network") route in most cases.

If you find an easy and uncomplicated way of getting such a config supported let me know 🙂

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OTOH if you have MetroCluster configs that require you to have more than 2 NS224 shelves per side (where you need switch-attached storage), the cost of the switches is negligible compared to the cost of the disks+shelves, so it should not matter much in those cases

spring bramble
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I think I understand now 🙂 Thanks. "funny" thing is that I just tried to find the SN of the switches we bought from NetApp as part of a MCC-IP, and I cannot find anything... So NetApp most have another way to figure out that they sold it... Now I don't want to circumvent anything... I just want to let my customers know how this works and what the risks are if they want to use their own switches... And you are right about the fact that the larger the system is in terms of capacity the less the switch cost percentage is... I will always recommend the supported approach, and in this case recommend the Nexus' even though they are the more expensive option compared to the other supportede brands, but sometimes it's the last little bit that ends up making a difference... and this is how we ended up selling systems with limited software licenses on systems with a service life of 7 years... of cause only to find out after 2 years that SnapMirror would actually have been nice 😉 and trust me, you do not want to buy any software licenses "after the fact"... 😉

proven oar
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generally, if the switches as backend cluster switches (mcc or standard cluster), they are usually less money. If I recall, there is a pass-through license agreement that the switches are to be utilized as backend switches(X190200-CS-PE/PI). By all means, NetApp will allow you purchase a Nexus 9336C-FX2 as a front end (X190210-FE-PE/PI) but it does cost more.

rapid shale
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I would suggest to read through these links, they explain it clearly who will be responsible for what during cases etc:

In short:

  • cluster switches --> you need to buy them from NetApp, everything else is unsupported (the whole cluster will be in an unsupported configuration)
  • MCC-IP switches: either get them from NetApp or check the Metrocluster-compliant technical requirements and source them on your own
NetApp Knowledge Base
Cisco Support - Resolution Guide