Let's talk about the Eva changes since patchnotes are out

[echo sundial]

We wanted to give Eva a much-needed boost and broader access to SUPERVIVE’s sandbox gameplay. For a Hunter who manipulates life, it felt appropriate to extend her RMB to interact with more elements of the game. We hope this change not only makes her feel more powerful but also helps enhance the fantasy of wielding Argos, her Abyssal pet. 


Orbs of Argos (RMB)
 - If Orbs are more than 1600 units away from Eva, they will despawn
 - New Orb behavior
 - Can now revive allied Wisps, including herself 
 - If Eva is the last Hunter alive on her team and has an Orb out, she will knock to Wisp (rather than immediate team elim)
 - Can now stomp enemy Wisps
 - Can now use Respawn Beacons
 - Can now capture Base Camps
  
Beckon (Q)
 - BUGFIX: For Ability Level 4, upon pulling Orbs back, will properly heal the Orb as opposed to shrinking it.

[sweet pike]

i dont think it changes her much unless they changed how the orb works

[regal sierra]

The only thing I like is the wisp revive and wisp stomp, as that makes sense for her character so it's just a neat change. Does not make her stronger at all.

Why does she need to use revive beacons with them tho? In fact, why does any character have the ability to use revive beacons with something other than their character model?(looking at you beebomb)

[abstract jewel]

im glad she has beebo bombs now

😇

[echo sundial]

very curious if her RMB stomping will benefit her passive

since her healing and getting her cd reduction from passive is a pretty big part of her kit

Also, Tom_Kick recommended Guardian Angel as an option for Eva and I'm not sure if that will actually be good.
Beebo is the only reference we have right now so I'll talk about it with him, but beebo's bomb's resurrection is entirely unaffected by GA. It won't res boxes and won't make your resses any faster.
Assuming Eva Orb gets the beebo bomb treatment, it won't be as effective since she can't throw out her orb and run to narnia like beebo does because of the max range now added to her rmb

My opinions might change if the full heal radius resses, instead of just the center 'orb' but I don't think this eva thing is as game breaking as it seems at first glance

[regal sierra]

Well tbf beebo's bomb is complete bs rn and even if eva is in a weaker state I'm really agajnst her having it in a similar way to his bomb which is why the range thing seems good to me.

I really hate the rez beacon thing tho. I don't think any hunter should have that especially with how fast the rez beacons are now

[woven meadow]

Eva orbs despawn now if further than 1600 units away

Beebo bombs don't

[regal sierra]

Yes I said that didn't i

[woven meadow]

1600 units is about 1 screen I'd say

[woven meadow]

Unless I'm blind, not in this thread

[regal sierra]

"Which is why the range thing seems good to me" is referring to Eva's max range.

[woven meadow]

Ah

[regal sierra]

I didn't specifically mention Eva's range so ig it's fair

[glass agate]

I was really hyped about Eva changes, but this just feel so bad
She still have at least 15 bugs that are not fixed, her kit does not interact at all with the armory system and to me, the max distance is extremely stupid ...

[grim spire]

Agreed the wall bug or no aura ball is so rough, I feel like they need to find another way to make her apply ability effects cause rn it feels so bad or at least just make her ball range flat is stead of the weird stuttering effect is has due to health the health spawn at like 60% also just makes them blow up :<

[glass agate]

Yeah, I think they still need to work hard on her to fix the issues, make her aligned with the state of the game and the armory and maybe make the level 4 upgrades better
I'm sad that my favourite hunter is in this bad state

[echo sundial]

We don’t know that for sure

Maybe she guts shadow bug fixed

I’m not cope-ing…

[echo sundial]

How’s the no aura ball bad for the Eva player? Cause it’s just invisible, so for a good Eva player that’s an abusable bug not one that nerfs her

Until week 4 of Eva’s release you could forcefully make invisible orbs and I’d do it on purpose to mess with enemies

You can’t do it as easily anymore, and when it does it’s not intentional, but I do make use of it when I have it

[urban mural]

I think this doesn't buff Eva that much but it nerfs Beebo

[rotund blaze]

I don’t understand the need for despawn when they basically destroy themselves anyway

[glass agate]

If they don't heal or get attacked, I don't think they lose hp, but even then, I don't understand the issue with having orbs that stays
Eva can't chain rez at a beacon as you can only use them once, and if the Heart types one are an issue, just make them impossible to interact with orb instead of this very bad limitation

[rotund blaze]

Could also make the rezing take the health of the orb as if healing

so it can’t stay on a rez beacon infinitely

[echo sundial]

They do decay when doing nothing, though it is slower

[glass agate]

Yeah, just let me help my teammate when I'm rezing my other mate

[glass agate]

So even then, no purpose on the destruction when too far :/

[rotund blaze]

I hate the despawn I hope they hotfix it out

I thought the rework was supposed to buff her from her despair not make it harder

[echo sundial]

I think destruction when too far was something that might’ve been good on her release cause her orbs used to constantly stagger, meaning you could walk by a camp, place an orb, walk away and it would fully clear the camp. Eva had the highest tempo by far if you knew how to utilize it.

But since it doesn’t stagger the way that it used to, I don’t see it being necessary anymore.

It’s a way to mitigate placing an orb down on res and just leaving…but if that’s the case, why does beebo and little chef get to do it?

[glass agate]

Even if she did kill camps, she would be too far away to get the benefits

[echo sundial]

Also 1600 sounds way too short. Like will affect normal team fighting short

[echo sundial]

No, dealing the last hit on a camp will give you the xp and money regardless

[glass agate]

Yeah, my friend who plays Void would not be able to tp with 2 orbs to keep him alive anymore, it will probably despawn directly

[echo sundial]

For an example outside Eva, Ghost Q and Saros RMB. For an extreme example, you can shoot through an unstable portal to kill a camp on the other side of the map and still get the money/xp

[glass agate]

In any case, it is still an extreme case and I don't think that adding a max distance is still necessary

It mean that during the time you want to farm with your orb, you can only fight with 1 orb which puts you at a disadvantage

But maybe I don't realise how busted it is

[echo sundial]

Let’s move past the orb farming since you can’t do it anymore anyway.

I think the max distance is necessary. I just think 1600 is way too short when beebo can go to narnia without his bomb despawning

Either remove the max from Eva or tie down beebo down to our range

[glass agate]

They could just increase the decay speed based on the distance

[rotund blaze]

I wonder what the concern for the distance really is? Could it be mitigated by something more in our control like only 2-3 orbs out at once before oldest despawns?

[rotund blaze]

Or this

[naive cedar]

On bright side Eva now can max Q or shift. Don’t think they mentioned fixing max lvl rmb where it doesn’t increase the orb radius

[echo sundial]

The increased decay on distance is more computationally demanding while effectively achieving the same thing

Because at some distance, the decay will be fast enough that the orb will just dissapear

[glass agate]

Yes ofc, but you would still be able to rez your mate while helping your other team mate survive ...

So indeed, raising the distance from 1600 to something like 3200 would be ok

[echo sundial]

I don’t see how decay being affected by distance leads to this

[glass agate]

If there's no 1600 unit limitation, you can put your orb on the beacon, go further away than the arbitrary 1600 units, assist your mate while the other is getting rezed.

Having a decay based on distance would make it more flexible and would not be able to be abused

[naive cedar]

They didn’t fix orbs not healing when dealing dmg or orbs getting stuck on terrain 😫 which might be the biggest issue for me

[echo sundial]

Your assumption there is that the decay speed at 1600 units is slow enough to get off the rez beacon before the orb dissapeared

What if the decay speed of an orb is 200% HP a second at 1600 range?

[glass agate]

Then it would be the same as of now, which would means it's useless
The decay distance would ofc need to be fine tuned

[echo sundial]

Your hypothetical assumes decay speed is a more generous system than a hard cutoff is

[rotund blaze]

Yeah I really wish they’d give back the heal on damage

But I hear that’s bad for balance?

Idk

[echo sundial]

Same way the despawn range could be tuned to be more generous…and how that would cause less confusion than a variable decay speed based on distance would

[echo sundial]

Koalifier mentioned it being a point that was frustrating when playing against Eva during beta and that’s what lead to its removal

Which to be fair, Eva orb vs Jin was an Eva orb favored matchup so I can see why it was changed

Just wish the heal was reduced, not removed

[glass agate]

Yeah, just proposing alternative solutions, never said it would be the best

[rotund blaze]

Yeah even if it was reduced a lot I think it would help — or even having the orb not spawn at 50% health and size

There’s just so much other QoL I was hoping for, I didn’t really need the beebomb treatment

[echo sundial]

Eva orb spawning at 50% HP but 100% size during beta was honestly weird so I’m kinda okay with them changing that for consistency

Wish it was 100% health and 100% size instead though

[glass agate]

I totally agree with that, it's a good to have, but it does not makes her more "powerful" at all

[echo sundial]

Don’t think anyone was hoping for Walmart beebomb lol

Curious if they fixed RMB lvl 4 cause the beebombification of argos will be affected by that

Also really hope that that Orbs can be retroactively affected by items that grant damage.
Eva can’t make use of items like Rampager or Duality that well because the damage amplification provided by those items only apply to the next orb you put out instead of the one that’s already out and you’re probably tethered to

Orb preservation is an important aspect of playing Eva and these items necessitate you burning a cooldown (and your mana) to get its full effect which just feels bad

[glass agate]

Let's just hope that this is not the only things they had planned for her in the future

[echo sundial]

Yeah let’s hope…

On that note, imma probably still not play my mastery 7 Hunter and just play Eva with underboob tomorrow

Cause why worry about orbs that res but will despawn when far away cause they have separation anxiety, when I can just rain down resurrection potions from the heavens and walk away while my magical potion clouds do the rest

Oh and if you’re thinking, but Eva can use her orbs on res beacons, introducing, little chef, an item that any Hunter can use that doesn’t fucking despawn at 1600 range

[naive cedar]

Underboobs power creeping eva on day one

[grim spire]

Maybe just me but when it’s invisible it doesn’t do dmg? Maybe I’m delusional haven’t played her in abit so might just be I don’t know a range possible skill issue

[echo sundial]

@foggy dirge I’ve spent about 5 hours now on today’s patch and speculation made prior today has panned out somewhat differently. However I’m still disappointed with how bug ridden she is and how the changes given to her seem niche and frankly underwhelming.
I was wondering if we could be given further context on what lead these changes?

Btw, thank you for always being communicative with the community despite our behavior towards devs at times.

Also, whoever removed Eva LMB tethering to Ice, big W’s. I’m not even sure when that was changed cause I distinctly remember it being there at start of 1.0 and I avoided ice areas due to it until today. Maybe it was removed today? Maybe some earlier hotfix? I genuinely don’t know

[foggy dirge]

I can't remember if the lvl4 is fixed in this patch or the next one for RMB, but it should be fixed

I think it might be next patch

[foggy dirge]

I think we could probably do a different max range. The reason to do range is that the orbs will just never despawn if nothing damages them, so we definitely don't want degen strats like leaving a random orb on a beacon in the middle of nowhere

will take a note to look at the max range, I'm not sure why we arrived at that particular range, but I imagine it's flexible

[foggy dirge]

Specific bugs that are bothering you would be good to have listed out. In general, my list of bugs is always larger than the community's list of bugs, so it's useful to get y'all's input on which bugs YOU think are important.

I don't personally play much Eva so she's a tougher one for me to assess how annoying certain issues are, so I value the input a lot

please give me a video or a detailed description of the bug so I know which ones you're thinking about

[abstract jewel]

ty for communicating with us especially during degen hours ❤️

[echo sundial]

The two main ones at the moment are RMB lvl 4 (fix next patch huzzah! Thank you) and her LMB slow applying to her twice.

I’ll have a video later for visuals but to explain for now, Eva tether historically has reduced her movement speed by 25% while tethered.
So with her base movement speed of 480, tethering to orb/enemy/ally would take her down to 360 until she let go.

For some reason in 1.0 the slow started to be applied again on top. So she’d tether to an object going from 480ms to 360ms and then as she starts moving the slow is applied again taking her from 360ms to 270ms, losing a total 210ms or 43.75% of her movement.

There’s plenty of other minor bugs, namely her orbs getting stuck in some interesting places sometimes. But I think the Orb jankiness and lmb jankiness is something that most of us Eva players have kind of learned to accept or work around at this point.

Also just a little extra, as I’m curious of your opinion, Eva has always had a bit of a problem of being a stat check Hunter, leading to many fights being won on her not because the Eva played skillfully but because the enemy played it poorly by standing in her orbs, not applying anti-heal, not kiting, etc etc.

As an Eva player there are things that can be done to maximize her stat check nature such as good utilization of Q to keep people in, Ult setups for stuns to again keep people in, or dodging crucial projectiles with her shift (very ping reliant) but the problem remains that Eva doesn’t really have the agency to create these situations. It’s on the enemy to create these situations for her.

I think this problem was far less noticeable on the previous map during beta as there was enough land that eventually you’d find yourself in these advantageous situations. With the introduction of so much abyss, terrain in which Eva can play for her stat check has drastically reduced.

I don’t think stat-checking hunters are healthy in general as it creates frustration especially for new players, but that aside, Eva can’t even do that effectively anymore.

If the goal is to make Eva into a stat stick that stomps low-elo but falls apart in low-elo, I think the current design is great. But her current design will only be effective there, or the highest echelons of coordinated play where she doesn’t need agency because her team can create it for her. Everyone in mid-high elo will suffer as a result

Sorry, that was long-winded and I jumped around a few points throughout that.

Thank you again for your communication Koalifier <3
I’ll have the bug video here for you shortly

[foggy dirge]

no need I know about the self-slow thing

[echo sundial]

I know what I’m doing on Beebo tonight! Jokes aside I agree with a max range. It just feels off when I want to take base camp at Ion Acres while doing the vault right next to it, and the orb despawns cause I accidentally sneezed and bumped into my ‘S’ key for 0.3 more seconds

[foggy dirge]

yeah the difference is that Beebo's bombs have a timer

[naive cedar]

There is also the bug of orb not healing when dealing damage as the tooltip says

[regal sierra]

This was intended but tooltip was not changed

[woven meadow]

Why can't it heal AND deal damage?

Just make it drain faster for each target being hit

[foggy dirge]

I think @echo sundial mentioned, the orb change to make it require Eva healing it to keep it alive while it is actively killing people is more oriented towards weakening how much she rolls people who are misplaying

[naive cedar]

Ah ok then that’s fair. The only other major bug I can think of is orb getting stuck in walls or trees especially after using Q but that’s a pretty well known bug

[foggy dirge]

video would be helpful!

[naive cedar]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1403727275739844648

also thanks for listening. really appreciate it

[sweet pike]

theres also a bug where the orbs go invisible, happens quite often but im not sure how to replicate it

i think its because of wall

but not sure

only like the middle orb appears but the AOE doesnt

can still drag it and it still does dmg/heals

[foggy dirge]

noted!

video showing when the invisible orb thing happens (like, a video showing that it was visible, then became invisible) would be really helpful, we don't have that bug tracked

[sweet pike]

ill see if i can find it

[topaz birch]

i know a way to consistently create a invis orb but there are some weird things with them, sometimes a orb will appear invisible to you but not to others (or the other way around). as for a way to create one if you q directly on top of yourself wait a moment and throw a orb the q will drag it for a second before leaving the orb behind aand making it invis, will look for a clip

https://www.twitch.tv/m3553ng3r5/clip/InnocentDarlingHamsterPlanking-KFhS5FpunUSbaTWs

that clip is from back when she first released but it works the same now

[sweet pike]

yea its been a thing since release

[foggy dirge]

ah okay nice - yeah I bet it's only an issue on your client

[echo sundial]

Now that's the funny thing, it's very inconsistent.
Invisible orb is sometimes invisible to you but visible to enemies, invisible to both, visible to you but invisible to them.
Honestly no clue what dictates it's visibility