Star / upvote this post if you think squads on new map with 10 teams would be better than trios

[tired prism]

Above ^

[quiet dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-ah-shit-cj-gta-gta-san-andreas-gif-13933485

[near flume]

I feel like it would not change anything. Still would be waaaay too little land so half the time you can't really control any space as there'd be guaranteed a team there. And I do not think the 2 less teams squads has would change that.

[wraith topaz]

Squads > trios

[tribal night]

Insane take but ngl curious

https://tenor.com/view/jegulitos-jegulitos-juanjo-gif-1893732815696117980

[clear pawn]

just make it a diff gamemode

reverting back to squads atp would be a bad idea imo

[vital moss]

Squads >

we miss Squads

yes WE

WE as in all of US

yes YOU including YOU the one that's reading this

WE agree that Squads needs to come back

[near flume]

You say we as in everyone, which is simply just wrong.

[vital moss]

yes Vulture including you

[near flume]

Hudson is weaker in squads so it is objectively worse

There are actually a good amount of people who think trios are better, I am 1 of those. And the thing ham talks about i don't even think would effect the issue at hand mych

[scarlet rose]

I love trios. I think it's the sweet spot for team size.

[wraith topaz]

true this

[wraith topaz]

no way hudson's weaker in squads

cuz hudson's already as weak as anything can be. so it's physically impossible that in any other game condition he's worse

[near flume]

More people to focus him so he just gets shot more so he dies faster. You can technically make him "stronger" with 3 supports(oath, elluna, zeph) but that doesn't make him stronger just makes the comp stronger. And if he is by himself he's just cooked in squads with the rework likely, old version prob the opposite.

[wraith topaz]

you used two different logics in this. you said he's weaker because enemy comp is stronger against him. but then you said he's not stronger if there's a better comp for him. one of those has to change

either he's not weaker against better counters or he's stronger with better support is what I mean

[near flume]

He gets better support but anti heal will ruin said support focused comp.

I mentioned the bettwr support cua that would be his main advantage in squads. But I also mentioned more people getting to shoot him being the main reason he'd struggle more. Hudson will just no longer be able to go solo, which going for solo flanks on him has always been huge, so that would also suck.

And at the very least in solo que he is guaranteed weaker, even duo que.

[uneven copper]

Waiiit ham kinda cookin

kinda odd if you think about skysharks being added & only 2 can ride, leaving the other riding sad and lonely

(Instead of wasted skyshark seat real estate - it’d be the perfect seat for a 4th teammate)

((Skysharks are still unhealthy for the game and this message does not promote their use))

[vital moss]

I disagree with this. I think he's way stronger in Squads

You say more people to focus on him but at the same time the amount of targets that he has increases, making his piercing rounds wayyyyy more insanely stronger

[near flume]

That doesn't matter unless enemy stacks for no reason. People have no reason to stack like that at all, so it'll never happen. Snd getting more dmg does not matter if they are focusing him and even trying to avoid his dmg.

People honestly over value how powerful his piercing shots are. They really aren't as impactful as people think. When people stack sure they can do lots of dmg, but that really isn't as often as you'd think.

[wraith topaz]

in open field no, but he gives value to long range characters like Shrike and Myth. but playing hudson with one of those in Trios might very well make your comp unbalanced

[near flume]

Also one other random thing to point out, the chances of a full team stacking goes down with more people technically. so in fact they get worse

[wraith topaz]

hudson is very bad on his own and stands to gain alot from teammates. I just think he gets better the more people he can play with

in my reasoning, a hudson in squads is better than trios, and 5v5 would favor him more than squads and so on

[wraith topaz]

but you're looking for chance of full stack, you're looking for chance of any stack

[near flume]

Hudson doesn't help shrike really at all? He helps myth with rmb into wire being jist a for sure death but not really with anything to do with her range.

[wraith topaz]

a stack of 2 players is more likely in squads than trios

and more in 5v5, and more in 6v6

but it's just that, he makes it so that enemies have to commit on killing him, and that gives your teammates a chance for trading

it's easier to do that with more people

[near flume]

Sure but you're less likely to wipe a full team like that which is better no? Like why just wipe 50% of a team when you could instead wipe 100% of a team.

[wraith topaz]

I just think that those are kind of disneyland scenarios

I don't think the chance of any character solo carrying a play is how we'd evaluate a balanced character

if a character wipes teams constantly, then the character just gets nerfed, but yeah it was strong

I don't think the piercing rounds are supposed to make hudson wipe teams, just represent a X% damage "buff"

[near flume]

But that's kind of the whole argument about his piercing rounds. He'll be way more likely to be able to do a lot of damage to a whole team instead of just some of the team in trios, even if it isn't necessarily by killing them.

It also isn't really clear about whether this is comp or ranked. Cus in ranked he just isn't really functional in squads. In comp you can make the argument about him having supports allowing him to sustain a lot more as he can have more supports while maybe even having bishop/myth to make use of hos wires more.

[uneven copper]

I don’t really play Hudson but I feel like damage shouldn’t be the talking point, he zones areas

[near flume]

He zones areas with damage, that's the point.

His damage is kind of hos whole thing

[uneven copper]

Barbed wire & lmb

[wraith topaz]

what I mean at the end of the day is that I evaluate the character on their usual effectiveness, not their peak effectiveness

yeah, every single character represents more of the whole and I'd argue that you can say that the peak of almost every character goes down with the more players there is in a given team (you represent 33% of the team in trios and you represent 25% of the team in squads)

[near flume]

I still do think he'd be weaker with that logic due to more people focusing him.

[wraith topaz]

but I'd say that hudson in squads is more effective in the majority of scenarios/games, it's what I'm trying to get at

[wraith topaz]

I just think it's harder to single out a character in squads than in trios

[near flume]

I'd argue it's easier honestly.

[wraith topaz]

probably why we think differently on the hudson thing, but then that's a whole other argument to be had

[near flume]

And like often times hudson is gonna try and play more split, which i feel like squads just punishes him more for trying to get good flanks snd playing more alone

[wraith topaz]

when I play with hudson I try to stack on him, so I can punish anyone trying to enter and make it so that he can't be targeted from the sides

if he plays split, he's just making it easier on the enemies to single him out, and yes, specially on squads... I think that'd be just bad play

I feel like he's kinda a zoner carry, and carry characters don't usually play alone

[near flume]

The point is he goes for a flank then his teammates just push people into him. This is something hudson excels at, always has. And with his reworked version in squads he could simply never do that. "Playing split is bad" is what people will initially think, but getting good flanks on a whole team can basically just be a death sentence and people don't really understand that.

[wraith topaz]

yeah, this is a meta that's easier done on less people

[neon pulsar]

Oh ffs
Can we stop having this debate for the 99th time xDD

[near flume]

I feel like we just have different views on wha hudson "should" do.

[near flume]

You don't like having the same convo over and over again?

[neon pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-gif-10093852890875433850

[near flume]

I was at least talking about hudson like I normally do

[wraith topaz]

I think you're adapted to trios and the strategies that work there, and you see that you can't play as if it was trios on squads, and therefore the character is worse playing in a different meta with the strategies of current meta.

and I think the opposite

I want him to play as the different meta and that can't be done in current meta

you see the value in his flanks and see it's a worse playstyle in squads so he's worse.
I see the value in him stacking and see it's a worse playstyle in trios so he's worse.

[wraith topaz]

and the reason I think like this is because I think "what people will initially think" should be how the characters usually play in team

cuz you will know that he's better flanking in trios, and will try to play like that

cuz you're a hudson player

but your teammate will have expectations on what you should do

and if the character plays differently than that

most will just not know and not be able to properly play with your character

if the character plays different than what teammates expect, but you don't need to play together to do your thing, then that's not a problem

but it the character expects people to sync with you, in a way that's not intuitive... I don't think that's good design cuz it's setting you for failure

so that's why when I see hudson I think that he should play the way people initially think he will

[near flume]

He's just lind of always been a flanker, even back in squads. But the thing that let him flank well back then was his rmb healing which he just doesn't have anymore. So he'd have to play entirely different. I feel like he'd then get confined to a very passive playstyle.