The female character are not just oversexualised, they are straight up poorly designed

[inland apex]

Isn't anti being changed to 75%?

[flat grove]

thats still making your investment in those stats shit

because you cant overtune those stats accordingly without making having an answer essential

[tiny yew]

Jeez I hope not

Why take away the only thing that hard counters Eva

That's cooked if true

[flat grove]

they should just have varying antiheal depending on the spells used

[hot latch]

what is unstoppable tho

[inland apex]

Eva is kinda meh anyways

[flat grove]

if you need antiheal to beat eva youre kinda playing bad tbh

[inland apex]

her changes in 2.0 kinda cook her

[tiny yew]

Eva is only kinda meh because of antiheal

[flat grove]

nah she lacks stickyness like felix does to actually be a threat

shes just something that is able to punish but as long as its trios and the meta is this TTK heavy, the ability to be proactive outweighs everything in the game

[tiny yew]

The threat isn't the stickyness it's the 'make my team unkillable unless they or me get antihealed'

[flat grove]

and eva is the exact opposite of that

[flat grove]

you can oneshot with almost every character in the game atm

the only times this actually factors in is if they build tanky

[tiny yew]

Eva does build tanky does she not?

[flat grove]

but then again, building tanky only was meta because of infusor as a stabilizer pick in a comp with damage

[tiny yew]

Vamp builds

?

[flat grove]

having to opt into 2 or more people that have to do that in a comp

esp in trios

basically means ure playing for placement only

[flat grove]

doesnt mean her teammates do

[tiny yew]

They don't have to if she heals the properly

[flat grove]

they would likely also be really good against tank atp, its a statcheck in the end, but those numbers will obviously have to be tuned if they finally start working the antiheal mechanic properly

[tiny yew]

The only reason I don't struggle to fight Eva is because of Felix's antiheal

I don't think that makes me a bad player

[flat grove]

theres oneshots in the game that literally go sub 1 second

even if she gets 2 ticks off, bishops oneshot deals more than enough dmg to overkill almost 4x as much

if shes on a full heal build even im 99% sure

[tiny yew]

I've been playing competitive and maybe only seen a couple of oneshots, like Joule combos

[flat grove]

the comp games are a different breed i was talking about ranked meta ofc

gl in comp if they dont adjust the healing to fit new antihealing values xD

scrims and tournaments would be cooked as sfuck

draintank metas suck

[hot latch]

for competitive yes

[tiny yew]

As someone who abused Felix draintank for months... yeah

Playing competitive is an eye-opener to just how weak felix is in competitive

[flat grove]

But then again to come back to topic, i dont think nyx will be able to fullfill that fantasy just yet to a satisfying degree

so even if shes unpopular i think itll resolve if the game actually keeps players and they fix the antiheal issue properly

those kinda kits fly high if theyre allowed to

Esp if they look sick on top of that

[tiny yew]

I've been meaning to try and branch out and become more than just a onetrick on Felix. Maybe I'll give Nyx a try

Either Nyx or Carbine

I want to escape low-mobility hell

I don't know much about Nyx right now though

[inland apex]

Low mobility felix?

[tiny yew]

Felix is fairly low mobility, when not considering ult or ult + bungee

Extremely slow movement speed

In comp I am constantly recalling to teammates just to catch up

Every game I have to ask, do I get recon runners to keep up, or bloodlust for the actual combat benefits

Going back to Nyx's design though, I don't think it's super great, just good

[hot latch]

Yeah

[inland apex]

Its an alright design, I personally want them to focus on the gameplay aspect more than anything

[tiny yew]

Clothing seems kinda uninspired

[hot latch]

Idk why

but they have something in not making cool clothing

(Besdies Joule, even so, she could have more detailing in it)

[tiny yew]

Elluna's clothing is pretty cool, same with Zeph

If you count the orb

[untold fox]

Doesn't really tell us much about her besides the helmet, when tech/armor should be telling us a lot about a cyber knight.

[hot latch]

I mean

They could not work too much in clothing if other thing is very worked on

The horns

Could have more details

But they usualy don't that and is a shot in the foot

remove from one to give more to other

And by detailed I don't mean the shape but the overall VFX

[flat grove]

also having heavy armor could oversaturate the design too, aatrox is also super lean outside of his shoulders, his head and his big ass sword

Not every character needs super unique clothing and i think the keyhole top allows to keep the look ragged while also picking up something from common fashion without being super distracting

i like it personally, shes a good balance imo

[hot latch]

The horns could be more a "energy overflow horns" typa shi than a solid horn

[flat grove]

I mean we gotta have to wait how her vfx look ingame to judge that no?

[hot latch]

or even a solid horn but not like a child toy that glows in dark solid

[hot latch]

Yeah I do, but like, saying what I saw in trailers and what people will see before downloading it

I mean

They prob have VFX changes in "unstopable mode"

I agree

But I'm saying about the base design

[flat grove]

i think shes probably one of the better hunters to be on a cover so far ngl

I was super disappointed with the latest 3 releases in that regard

even tetra

[hot latch]

I agree with that too

[hot latch]

I don't recall what was the hunter before tetra

[flat grove]

wukong no?

[hot latch]

Oh yeah

[flat grove]

wukong tetra mercury

[hot latch]

yeah the doom trio

jk

Wukong was kinda generic no, besides his mec arm that has nothing sepcial about it in gameplay deisgn and visual design

[flat grove]

super imo

[hot latch]

Can't innovate much visually in wukong I guess

[hot latch]

but again

[flat grove]

not without risking to be disrespectfull of the source material ig

Theres just such a fuckton surrounding wukong

[hot latch]

Yeah

[flat grove]

but i wish people would still do

im so bored of every single wukong design

[inland apex]

The wukong game had an actual good design

Which I was happy about

Cause I agree, almost all wukong designs are boring

[hot latch]

They just need to salt more the characters

I wouldnt bother Celeste having a Gym clothing if her ice crystals was something detailed and unique

I'll not bother Nyx having a taterred colaint or something if the vfx/detailing of her Scythe and Horns are good enough

[inland apex]

Isn't she a Ballerina tho?

[hot latch]

hmmm

[inland apex]

I meant celeste

[hot latch]

Oh

You see

[inland apex]

Sorry shoulda replied to that comment

[hot latch]

I can't tell

that's the problem

too

[inland apex]

Thats fair, if she is its definitely not really telling

[hot latch]

yeah

Even more a game like Supervive

that people will not stick enough to understand her lore

the visual design must communicate even more than other games

I have to be able to understand the character in 10 seconds looking into it

Other games like Leon from Resident Evil 2 doesn't need a cool outfit, the outfit of Leon can be a generic cop outfit with a giant "RPD" in the middle of itbecasue the "RPD" means something cause we understand and play the story behind it

In live service games, people just want to see something cool and play with, so the meaning have to be in the visual design

[dry forge]

She's a noble idk anything about "ballerina". You get barely any if this from hwr design tbh, mainly from how she talks. Idk if you could even portray that through design. It's not as simple as a "countryside farmer" like hudson looks like to me.

[broken wharf]

She cant be stopped

[hot latch]

dayum

[flat grove]

makes me remember the bishop unstoppable xD

hahahaa

her ult wasnt able to get canceled on cc, at least thats what the ability said, it didnt work

they then just fixed the tooltip

[rotund crystal]

u get it from her dialogue and movement

that’s why i think ppl that say her ribcage is a triangle she has no character are self exposing. say something is goonerbait while ignoring the character traits and treating them like the ppl who would see goonerbait is self expose lol.

[flat grove]

I think that entire weird shape debate is just a waste of time

Its a topdown game guys, they can only use 2 dimensions effectively to begin with, i think nyx specifically proved how much can be done to shift the overall shape without trying to reduce someones body to a triangle

I think people just got lost in the sauce there tbf

[untold fox]

I mean, the shoes and the ribbons from there are the biggest tell, and the icicles around her hips are meant to evoke a ballerina's tutu. Maybe the ribbon hanging from her hair ornament too. You can say a lot of the elegance and flashiness of her outfit lend themselves to that notion as well.

-# the argument could be made she undersells some of the ballerina fantasy due to her outfit - multilayer top, constrictive leather pants - and she seems to go for a fashion that's different than the elegant outfits of ballerinas or figure skaters. She could also maybe get to that dancer elegance by being more petite or slender. But those are quibbles.

[rotund crystal]

yea it’s her design and everything else. it’s why i think judging her design because she’s skinny is silly.

[keen lark]

the first character I played was joule with the cat girl skin btw

[hollow crane]

every day i wake up and check the supervive discord,

and every day, more and more of the discussions i contributed to are removed

but one thing remains, no matter what

against the test of time, and the test of man

the female character sexualization thread will always be there for me

with 100 new messages ❤️

[broken wharf]

Heartwarming confession thank you for sharing it

[inland apex]

Its true entertainment

[heavy magnet]

I don't know why people are so against something that's outside of what the female cast is now.

The others aren't going to disappear if we get something on the same level of originality as the male Hunters.

[tiny hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

Reading the updates before bed

Arguing over pointless things when the game is unplayable. Maybe if mercury had a different shirt this game would have 100k concurrent

[flat grove]

Ill start timing out people doing this

[dry forge]

I think this is a gross misunderstanding of what the other side is saying.

[hollow crane]

misunderstanding implies that it isnt on purpose

and i think we have all read enough of m64's posts to know that he is framing it that way on purpose

but if you were to do the same to him, he would immidiately say you were arguing in bad faith, moving the goal post, and then at the end he would post his block list proudly

same as always

[olive current]

this would be appreciated genuinely

it's pretty disheartening seeing people interact who clearly have no interest in an actual conversation on this

• makes people (like me) who actually want to interact shy away pretty heavily

[gentle summit]

rlly high iq

Ivr alrdy uttered the solution that woild make every side happy

its sooo ez brah

[gentle summit]

the answer to this is hero roster size and the game being bad

[flat grove]

its not even that deep either engage with it enough to at least adress any points or dont type in a discussion channel

[broken wharf]

Supervive

[hot latch]

you're no joking that is 3 to 4 accounts per day by paqt dayum

[flat grove]

Yessir

[broken wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/jebaited-low-quality-bait-wavy-man-gif-26402013

[heavy magnet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woZnS-tLmBk

The new Hunter is a step in the right direction, but she seems super OP...

[untold fox]

it's a sizzle reel.

those are purposefully framed to exagerrate their efficacy

[heavy magnet]

Oh, I didn't know that's what those were called.

[hallow coral]

I mean you don't only look at the visuals (which already show the hunter having way too much in their kit) you can also look at the patch notes themselves

have a read through her abilities and tell me it's not WAAAY too much to give to one singular hunter

[untold fox]

a pull, a circle sweep with a self-purge, a phase dash, a shout, a passive about stomping, and a mode that ups lifedrain?

[hallow coral]

passive that picks up enemy wisp while healing her, after fully stomping gives her 4 seconds of being unstoppable (no cc)

a charge lmb that's also a dash (because it was a good idea for tetra to have one lol)

a pull that goes through walls and also grounds

a shift that is a dash itself and also allows you to go through walls, not only that you have 2 charges

a spin that PURGES LIFE STEAL aswell as making you repell enemies and heal more off of them aswell

an ult that has armor shred (for some reason) and gives her 2 seconds of unstoppable per enemy hit

please explain to me how this isn't too much

you basically just listed her abilities, that's why I told you, you should read them more carefully

[untold fox]

the purge antiheal is because otherwise it's a complete hard counter. She's also hard projecting her weaknesses (kiting so long as you avoid the cd yank, reliance on lifesteal and wisp drain for sustain). I want to see her in action and play as/against her a bit before I say she's not overloaded for sure, but in the abstract she has a solid toolkit that also has very obvious shortcomings. The balance point will be whether her compensation moves too easily make up for that or not.

[hallow coral]

how is antiheal a hard counter when they literally made it not be 100%...

[scenic isle]

hey! came to remind you to take your pills and get off the personal computer, you know spreading ragebait online is big no-no! now take your nap and reassess after!

[flat grove]

this kinda stuff will get u timed out btw

either engage with the discussion or just ignore it. Coming in here just to flame everyone in a single message to make urself feel like ure better is not ok

[flat grove]

this doesnt matter

and shouldnt discourage u from playing her obviously

Look at the kits from just a raw pov of what the abilities do and compare it to the rest, we cant see wether she has any bunnyhop mobility thatd allow her to have unexhaustable mobility and stickyness like brall, which is a big criteria for a melee range character to be statchecky and without that being a thing, its generally unlikely that a character feels broken unless we have shit like 1.0 shiv that just deals way way way too much dmg

Which is at least tuneable

She also seems to have a pull so id assume that she has great emphasis on hitting that thing to be able to deal dmg and shes also countered by other melee counters like airblast likely

She looks alright just from a balancing pov imo, she also isnt just a pure melee spammer as it seems so its at least likely that they can make her harder to play to nerf her instead of being forced to nerf her stats to the point that theres better picks that are able to exist because theyre healthier for the game#

brall is a big example of how its not done right

which again, are things youd know if you played not just THE game but A game, because assuming something is unbalanced without any reference on mechanics that have been proven to be unbalancable in the game environment is the kinda take id expect from someone that has never even played this style of game before

that being a statbased hero combat game

tl;dr dont be discouraged to play her shell likely be ok

[hot latch]

ok

tbh

Nyx seems to be team dependent

and I think that's good

[flat grove]

yeah thats what melee characters should be in general

[hot latch]

like she can do ALL the cool stuff but she wll not hit kill people right (please). So her team will need to complete the damage and thats fine

[flat grove]

i think its more of a she lacks any ability to lock someone down or stick unless she has bhop and will only be able to use her pull to engage and then be able to kill on her own

i think if she ambushes u and catches u on ur dash with her pull shell outright be able to kill

[hot latch]

I see

well

[flat grove]

which is fine, a melee dps should be able to kill if she engages on melee range

[hot latch]

I think Joule Will work with her so that's a win

[hot latch]

yeah

Nyx seems pretty solid ngl

Love the vfx in the skills tho

[flat grove]

im a bit 50/50 on it

it looks too neon

not enough doom

like i expected more of a necro type character not some hyperlight drifter esque neon tank

the vfx look too clean and dont have the kinda particles i expected but maybe the sound design will make up for it and make it feel grittier

[raven frost]

Came back to say this character does not look like shit

But when I heard cyber death knight I assumed the character would actually look like a cyber death knight not a girl in hot topic who likes technowear

Overall solid 7/10 TC needs to revise how they describe characters bc the last 3 have not looked at all like what they said they would

I know god isn't real because this character didnt ship

Just slap some actual armor on her and this is my forever main

[flat grove]

i like both designs alot

i hope they make this character too

call it smth else and just give us a real tank man

[raven frost]

Releasing another fucking bruiser is a big smoge

The audacity to call her a front liner is insane too

[flat grove]

i mean well see

[hollow crane]

idk if she gets natty speed and omnivamp i wanna run her reaper + charm and see if you can just live forever

[broken wharf]

She was already made her name is Nyx

[hollow crane]

They did tho its nyx

[flat grove]

yeah im aware

thats why i felt the need to say that they should call her smth else

the design is too good imo to just be thrown out

[hollow crane]

They didnt throw it out tho they made nyx

[flat grove]

am i wording it badly?

are those 2 the same for u?

or do they look different enough to feel like they could both be their own character xD

[late marlin]

kinda wish she coulda kept her chest eye

instead of boring cleavage

[inland apex]

Her color scheme is kinda bland

Cool design tho

[raven frost]

For a death knight shes a lot more Grey than Black

[inland apex]

^

They coulda mixed them and it woulda looked better

[raven frost]

Old design had the right idea if ur not gonna do a black death knight do some red with blue and black accents

[green cliff]

if they stuck with the original Void design it would be great but overall their design choices seems confusing as hell

old Void had the potential to be the mascot of the game due to how he was designed

same thing is happening with this Nyx right now, I prefer the concept one way more than the new one, doesn't mean I won't play her, of course I will, but I definitely prefer the concept design than this one

for anyone curious about the old Void design

[inland apex]

Old void design goes hard what the hell

[raven frost]

I dont even understand how you dont ship this

[raven frost]

Is he not perfect the way he is

[heavy magnet]

Probably something to do with "We'we just a smaww indie company! 🥺 "

[raven frost]

But it dosent even look mechanically hard

[flat grove]

could also just be that this most definetly wouldnt look as cool topdown

the entire floating ball part wouldnt look this goood on top of a crouching guy that sits on it not really being super visible past that if u wanna make the floating ball visible

Voids current design is amazing too

[indigo verge]

it’s almost like the female cast needs more diversity instead of the same base body with slightly different clothes and accessories slapped on top

[indigo verge]

hard disagree. this old design lacks any personality whatsoever. void is actually one of their strongest designs imo

along with some others like KP

[green cliff]

Idk about you but the old design screams childlike psychopathic jester to me

The way he’s sitting down is casual and the way he makes his ball do everything for him

Current Void to me feels generic evil bad guy with literally just one color scheme

Current Void is the weakest character design for me

Not to mention the silhouette on this guy that’s being parroted around this thread about being an important part of character design

This is miles better and we’ve seen how TC is expressive with characters mounted on something like Beebo

It’s not a bad view from a top down view because we’ve had great examples like Beebo

Colors alone on this concept design beats current Void by a mile

Not to mention branding on this guy is Beebo levels of shilling

His mask could’ve been iconic, his arms on the orb like other faceless characters where they could do sign language or expressive conversation like a thumbs up or down

I don’t see that with our current Void

[flat grove]

calling void generic is crazy lol

theres not many characters in gaming that even resemble him

i personally cant think of 1

the earlier concept i can literally count 5 already

Like if being generic is the issue, you shouldnt point at the new design

[broken wharf]

Are there really other 5 masked rabbits on floating yoga balls with arms

[flat grove]

like a goblin shaman is everything but unique im sorry xD

[flat grove]

I can only think of one from CLoS that actually rides on a ball but 3 of the 5 designs also has magic hands like this one, its genuienly nothing unique to have a goblin shaman with magic hands

and none of them are top down, its alot easier to present an idea like this on a non top down game obviously

[green cliff]

It’s not about looking alike it’s about what it feels to me personally because there’s many levels to designing

Like Kirito from SAO is a guy with a sword with black clothes. His style is so generic and bland and that’s how it feels

But then you look at other characters like Jojos and you can see how unique they are

Literally Void is just an evil looking guy with one color scheme

Dude got dropped a paint bucket and somehow that’s peak design

[flat grove]

I mean you can say that they make u feel that way sure, but if void is generic youd at least have to have stuff comparable to it no? I genuienly cant think of anything, like not even in league, outside of maybe nocturne? but then the kit is completely different

and nocturne looks like S H I T

xD

[green cliff]

Evil floating guy with robes on except of grandeur robes it’s just purple

He’s just an elder lich

And somehow having a ball that is used as a mount is apparently more generic when it breaks 99% of the cast’s design scheme? Like????

[flat grove]

Yeah i mean its obvious why, i just think it would be really hard to make that look good topdown, if you want to have any significance on the character on top of it

similar to nunu and willump in league

when i started playing, just like most of my friends we didnt even notice the little guy xD

[green cliff]

Beebo makes vehicles looks good

And League has Seraphine for example where she’s so expressive

[flat grove]

Beebos vehicle is his ult

seraphine is mounted on a stage that isnt even 10% of her models height

[green cliff]

Why are we thinking of these characters like they can’t be stretched for perspective, League does it, Dragon Ball FighterZ does it

[flat grove]

this design is literally a clear 50/50

[green cliff]

This is one dimensional thinking when there’s many workarounds

We ask for unique designs and say “can’t do it”

https://tenor.com/view/vince-mcmahon-wwe-crying-cry-emotional-gif-4950826302066465749

[flat grove]

I think theres just better stuff to do, i think nyx looks amazing and she doesnt ride on a ball

[hollow crane]

no we r fuckin w u

[hollow crane]

its supervive colors tbf

[flat grove]

Motherfucker

xD

I was thinking that

but i gave u the benefit of the doubt

[hollow crane]

❤️

[hollow crane]

thats why im the best i behave for a few weeks

[flat grove]

Mb for trusting pair of nuts out of all people

[green cliff]

Falling to paqt everyday 💔

[hollow crane]

then BOOM

[flat grove]

Bro called u paqt

[hollow crane]

i would be honored by the paq comment but hes european

[flat grove]

how does that make me feel

[green cliff]

Bro was named paqt of nuts for like a month bro needs to own it

That’s why BAN HIS ASS MODS

https://tenor.com/view/megumi-fushiguro-ten-shadows-cursed-tecnhique-innate-summon-gif-7314075061044604464

[flat grove]

after todays events im tempted

[flat grove]

that i can agree with, guess its an attempt for visual clarity, but i miss some more detailed decals/tattoos in a literal neon punk game

[green cliff]

It’s not really exclusively to all characters i was mostly talking about how good concept art Void was

The ball thing shouldn’t be overused to everyone but it was definitely a unique take that breaks Supervive’s mold compared to his current iteration

[hollow crane]

i wish i was as legendary

[flat grove]

I think i can at least agree with it if the ball is more of a situational mount but then the base model just looks bland imo

[hollow crane]

totally agree, they need to just make better skins ngl

for the new champs, a lot of old skins are good

[green cliff]

They are making good skins imo

Recently

At least

Eva’s skin

Is amazing af

[hollow crane]

i liked evas a lot

but

person with name mercury

what do u think about merc skin

[green cliff]

I’ve only seen the strawberry one

I can’t afford shit for now lmao

[hollow crane]

thats the only one

😭

and its so bad

[green cliff]

Oh yeah that one

Straight ass

[flat grove]

FRRRRRRRRRRRR

[green cliff]

I wish they did more cheaper pallette swap or texture swaps

Like look at Tetra’s

The purple one

It was like so cheap and it looks so good

This looks absolutely amazing imo

It’s just simple palette swaps but it just hits all the good things

[flat grove]

she goes from earthbender to some arcane arts

just with that

looks sick

[raven frost]

I mean the problem isnt the model

Its the fucking clothes

And the accessories

She dosent look like a death knight she looks like she sits the corner of Spencer's and listens to evanescence

The prototype isnt good bc of its model its good bc it has that regal almost ethereal feel

[indigo verge]

psychopathic jester? really? to me the old design screams generic anime protagonist. it screams 'cool anime OC'

plus his old design is incredibly muddy with horrible shape language

it doesn't guide the eye to anywhere important. it's a mess

the big arms also look incredibly out of place being so low to the ground

i'm glad they changed it tbh

[indigo verge]

also i guess they made it into a battlepass skin lmao

[flat grove]

its still really far off from the old design imo

at least imagining it from this to the ingame model

[indigo verge]

also takes away any excuse pretending that the keyhole isn't just shamelessly showing cleavage

[flat grove]

the main thing that sticks out is her scythe and horns

you dont even see it ingame its hard for me to see it as something problematic like at all

[indigo verge]

this really doesn't matter at all

if they made a character naked in the champ select but in the perspective of the game you can't tell they're naked, it doesn't change the fact that they made the character naked

hyperbolic but you get the point

[flat grove]

this character is not naked

[indigo verge]

.

[flat grove]

she wears something extremely common in fashion nowadays man

Like you cant have both

either women dress to sexualize themselves or putting something women wear publicly in casual situations on a character is fine

[heavy magnet]

Weirdly enough, I feel like this old design would work if they changed around the colors to her final design.

Also, they could pull a Deadlock and modify the design later.

I remember somebody mentioning that cleavage hole could have an eye in the middle.

[indigo verge]

you're intentionally or unintentionally stripping any context away, like the problem being that practically EVERY character has some sexualising element

women also wear non-revealing clothing all the time

[flat grove]

yeah could be cooler but then again, id prefer if they kept that for a future design to help it stick out more, most characters are kind of a blank slate to begin with while having details stick out to make them recognizable

[indigo verge]

why can't they make any of that

[flat grove]

guess elluna, shrike, shiv and bishop are all dressed like strippers

[raven frost]

Ah good old create the problem sell the solution

[flat grove]

Also i never stripped context away, ive brought up these points before in detail and u stopped responding at some point im not gonna do it again i cba

you can just answer to my earlier message

[indigo verge]

elluna is like the one design that breaks the norm. and shrike, shiv, bishop are pretty alright actually that's true

[flat grove]

"pretty alright"???? XD

What do they show too much of?

Genuienly

[indigo verge]

just sad they refuse to make more of them

[flat grove]

you dont know that?

Do you know what their next 5 hunters are going to be?

[indigo verge]

well basing it off the last like 4 released hunters it's pretty clear the trajectory they're on

[flat grove]

They made 3 characters in closed testing leading up to 1.0 that ended up being the 3 least liked designs theyve done i think in general and now we got their first design outside of that cycle that is mostly liked

I think looking at the previous 3 as a result of that environment and looking at this character as their first one outside of that helps alot with understanding why things mightve went that way.

and then again thats only 4 characters in the span of like 4 months

We waited 3 months for 1 before this

[raven frost]

I really liked jins design

[indigo verge]

no offense but this sounds like coping to me

[raven frost]

Im surprised he wasnt well recieved

[flat grove]

Saying that all of their new designs are going to look like this is hella bad faith

[indigo verge]

you can rationalise away anything like this

[raven frost]

Dont u think the reason was more thag he was unplayable

[indigo verge]

that's not what i'm saying

[flat grove]

quite the opposite i just give them the benefit of the doubt because i have 0 evidence to think they would go that way

[indigo verge]

i've just yet to be proven wrong on it

[flat grove]

Youre just maxing out on bad faith and try to push that as an argument

[indigo verge]

the evidence is the last like 4 released characters

[flat grove]

"they did it twice, so theyre only going to do that from now on"

these 5 other women before this dont count!

[indigo verge]

you see them release 4 sexualised characters in a row and then you think it's bad faith to say they're going down a route of sexualising their heroes?

[flat grove]

so you count wukong?

[indigo verge]

clearly talking about the female cast specifically

stop being obtuse

[raven frost]

Tetra is not sexualized

Lets be real

[indigo verge]

she's wearing a fucking bikini bro

[flat grove]

So eva is the problem?

for you?

The character that is a literal succubus?

[indigo verge]

one of many

[raven frost]

Should she be in a fuckin burka or what

Shes in fight gear bro shes a fighter

[indigo verge]

a bikini is fight gear?

[flat grove]

I think you simply just try to argue against every showing of skin then and simply try to bottle down the entire female gender to ur idea of it, i dont think youre helping any woman with that.

[indigo verge]

you only watch mud wrestling or what?

[indigo verge]

strawman me harder

[flat grove]

Eva is literally the perfect example of a character that is completely fine to look like she does

this is not a strawman, evas looks make total sense for her character

And you think even that is a problem?

[indigo verge]

yeah you're right actually we should just release oversexualised heroes but then make some backstory to them where it's normal for them to be oversexualised

you've solved the problem

[flat grove]

So in ur eyes women sexualize themselves even if theyre like eva?

just because they show skin?

[indigo verge]

mercury's top is also fine because actually she's autistic and is sensitive to textures. she gets overstimulated when cloth touches her underboob.

design problem solved

[indigo verge]

what is even your point here

[flat grove]

And this guy is calling out others for made up strawmen

[indigo verge]

are you implying that eva isn't sexualised?

[flat grove]

exactly what i said

[indigo verge]

what you said means nothing

so i'm asking you to rephrase

[flat grove]

her entire character is made to be someone that takes advantage of people that see her that way bro

[indigo verge]

okay

you're pretending like she was born this way and they had no choice

you know the designers came up with her backstory right

you know that's part of the design process right

[flat grove]

So you dont think these kinda women exist?

they just made it up because it fits them?

[indigo verge]

no i don't think succubuses exist

[flat grove]

Literally no, but in character?

[heavy magnet]

I'm pretty sure they were a rationale Medieval Catholic people used to justify wet dreams.

[flat grove]

theres no women that would ever take advantage of their own appeal to men?

or even to others

eva doesnt even discriminate about that

she a real one

[heavy magnet]

Why does this hypothetical matter? Eva was probably designed by some greasy dude.

[indigo verge]

sexualisation in games is okay because women irl are sexualised too

is kinda what i'm getting here

[flat grove]

Oh so now women cant even decide to be like that themselves? xD

[indigo verge]

what you're saying would make sense if eva was made as some level of representation for those people

but i think we both know she wasn't made for that purpose

[heavy magnet]

Well, two questions:

1. Are you a woman?
2. Do you decide to dress and/or act in a way that's suggestive?

[indigo verge]

it's like seeing a game fetishize trans people and then going 'wheres the problem? you dont think hot trans people exist? is it a problem for you for trans people to be hot?'

i just don't get what your point is

[flat grove]

I think thats exactly what she literally does, theres a ton of women that are all about that, when she got teased for the first time i saw a ton of women on twitter calling her slay and queen and whatever the fuck. Saying that theres no women that actually feel represented by her is such a Male take on things that they dont understand about women

[indigo verge]

yeah some women irl take advantage of the fact that they are seen as a sex object by men

do you understand that this is not a good thing

[heavy magnet]

Again, are you a woman?

[indigo verge]

but rather people making the best out of a bad situation

[flat grove]

I like having variety bro, esp when it comes to things people can just identify themselves with, thats another part of picking ur character

[flat grove]

No im not, thats why i pick examples from reactions of women instead of claiming to understand how every woman feels about these things

thats so ignorant to begin with lol

[indigo verge]

if you're arguing from the perspective that eva is picked by people because they feel it represents them as a person, you're being ignorant

we both know that is not why she is made to look this way

[heavy magnet]

Alright, I'll bite: If a few black people are alright with minstrel shows, does that mean they should stick around?

[flat grove]

Oh yeah only gooners can pick eva, ofc, women and even guys that like her character either dont exist or wouldnt pick her

[untold fox]

hoo boy, people are going nuts here. What's the topic even on?

[flat grove]

comparing something that misrepresents an entire race vs something that is part of a roster with multiple representations of an entire gender is hella funny ngl

And u call my take ragebait

XD

[heavy magnet]

The hole at the top of Nyx's shirt.

I suggested placing an eye or gemstone there, since it would look cool and cover it up.

[storm belfry]

Good looking female characters is sexist

[indigo verge]

glad to see you never changed

[flat grove]

Thats my 2 cents on it tho i think ive said enough about it, its just funny to me that a keyhole top is somehow something that women cant wear without sexualizing themselves

[crimson notch]

gem. an eye would look weird on the otherwise human-ish figure.

[indigo verge]

i think since the start of this thread, hell since the first thread i saw about this topic months before then, all i've ever seen you do is just repeat the exact same strawman over and over again

it's kind of impressive

[storm belfry]

Its not but this place is full of unchecked mental illness

[heavy magnet]

I actually have a blocklist for people like Mew, if you want me to DM you it.

[indigo verge]

i don't really block people. i think he's kinda funny if anything

[flat grove]

Like ill never get why you think writing this is even remotely ok

[indigo verge]

it's Mew bro

are you surprised

he's been making the 'you guys just want ugly fat women like concord' strawman since before this thread even started

it's literally all he does

[flat grove]

Concords desings arent even bad bro isnt even right about his own points

[indigo verge]

nah you gotta be baiting with this one

concord's character designs are horrible

they're just bad because of zero art direction or personality is the thing. not because theyre 'woke'

[flat grove]

theyre not the reason the game died like at all man, they had kind of a diverse roster with a bunch of cool designs, it was just one of the most poorly marketed games i can remember

they also managed to be like the last guys on the hero shooter train to finally release their game

Its the classic try to jump on hype but it takes way too fucking long until u have a game and noone cares anymore story

[indigo verge]

concord genuinely has some of the worst character designs i've ever seen in a well funded game

[flat grove]

I mean yeah, im not surprised u think that xD

[indigo verge]

spiritually AI generated character designs

[flat grove]

like im almost 99% sure if the game didnt flop noone would be saying that man

[indigo verge]

absolutely they would

if concord took off i'd be saying it too

the character designs are just really bad

[flat grove]

Sure bro!

[indigo verge]

they have no soul, no art direction. there is no redeeming factor in concord's character designs

watch some professional character designers give their takes on concord and you'll learn a lot. they can articulate it a lot better than i can

[heavy magnet]

How can you believe that SUPERVIVE needs to continue doing the female Hunters like they've been doing, but then unironically defend Concord's designs?

[indigo verge]

they are very very poorly designed

[flat grove]

How do these 2 even remotely have to do with eachother xD?

One is about my general opinion on designs

the other is on me giving this games devs the benefit of the doubt that their newer designs can be different?

[heavy magnet]

Concord is one of the least marketable games out there, and you're defending it.

[flat grove]

Like im used to ur takes atp dont get me wrong, but dont u ask these kinda questions urself before u come up with this kinda bs?

Cool

answer the questions

[untold fox]

I have some thoughts to consider in terms of nyx and the keyhole thing, but I'll wait til the immediate debate dies down. Seems like y'all are caught up in it, and don't want to dog pile or get lost in the sauce.

[indigo verge]

the actual point is also not just whether a keyhole is inherently sexual or not, it's the fact that it's so entirely unnecessary

there is literally zero reason for it to be there. just like the underboob on mercury

[crimson notch]

oh, I figured you guys might find this interesting.

direct design comparison between nyx and the worst of them all, eva

[indigo verge]

it's like they had her design done without the keyhole and then some shareholder went 'wait. you forgot the cleavage!' and they had to add in a keyhole to force it in

[flat grove]

So limiting the amount of clothing not to what women feel comfortable wearing and what is socially accepted to be worn in public, instead we have to appeal to some dudes opinion on it is xD

and its worn casually too

[indigo verge]

what are you even saying

[flat grove]

and its less revealing than a cami, which is worn even more casually

[indigo verge]

did you read the sentence you jsut replied to before clicking reply

[flat grove]

and more often

[indigo verge]

it literally says that the issue isn't whether a keyhole is inherently sexual or not

and you reply 'but a keyhole isnt inherently sexual'

??

[crimson notch]

I feel like it could've been something else, but they for sure had to make some rip on the upper part of her chest, it would be way too bland without that

[untold fox]

do... do people object to eva? She's sexy booby lady, but that's part of her character and design specifically. As I recall people largely accepted eva as doing it intentionally, just that her thing gets lost a bit when a lot of the rest of the cast have titilation that's not really serving a character purpose.

[flat grove]

read my message lol

[indigo verge]

it's not even a rip though it's prefectly circular, unlike any of the other rips

[flat grove]

theres a ton of different tops that are worn just like this one dude

they picked this one over others, they already have a large variety of tops

[indigo verge]

and the fact that the battlepass skin still has the hole at her cleavage even though there's no rips in that one proves it's not a rip

[flat grove]

in the game

[indigo verge]

it's just a keyhole

[crimson notch]

I don't think so, eva's the one-off exaggeration that's acceptable.

[indigo verge]

personally i do object to eva but i think she is at least less egregious than the others for that reason

[untold fox]

would you object to her in a more varied cast?

[flat grove]

they can make a ton of these characters tbh as long as theres a varied representation for different things, i mean its supervive not succuvive

[indigo verge]

i think having a succubus lady as an excuse to make a comically sexualised character is a bad trope in general

[indigo verge]

probably less

[flat grove]

comically sexualized xD

Women dont exist ig

[heavy magnet]

Women don't exist for you to oggle them, creepo.

[untold fox]

I think eva has a lot of thought in how she goes about the trope, and you can make a very good argument that she might have a 'look but don't touch' line I find hilarious. Again, a bit of a pity she can't be one of many varied notes, but personally I think she's not as boiler plate or by the numbers as she might seem within her trope.

[indigo verge]

i think your idea of sexualisation has been tainted by overconsumption of online media

for most women irl, eva is indeed comically sexualised

[crimson notch]

yes. I meant one-off exaggeration of "sexy woman", and it'd only be an issue if we got another. I'd really welcome a "sexy man" exaggeration for example

[flat grove]

So if a woman chooses to embrace these sides of herself she isnt allowed to exist, esp if people start oggling them

Good to know

[flat grove]

yeah thats what i meant

[indigo verge]

bro is just strawmanning for the love of the game

[flat grove]

league has multiple too for example, but like in comparison to the game as a whole, i think its a total of 3 vs like 40+ women

and even within that character type, theyre vastly different

[indigo verge]

don't give league too much credit. a large part of their cast is oversexualised

[heavy magnet]

This is the logic that goes into victim blaming.

[flat grove]

with ahri being someone that is more of a tragedy while eve fully embraces it because shes a literal demon, i think its fine if theres enough thought in it and the characters are made with that much thought

[flat grove]

you did this

At least ure admitting it

[untold fox]

arguably saros should count as that, though he clearly has other tropes going on, and how successfully you find his model as successfully showing that attractiveness is another thing. But like 'exotic prince who is both polite and conquering' is definitely like 20% of bodice ripper love interests.

[flat grove]

im not surprised you think that way lol

[crimson notch]

true. I keep forgetting about saros.

[heavy magnet]

I'm saying you're the one who would be victim blaming here.

[flat grove]

they dont care about dudes, was brought up before, its not even only saros, with male characters theres a different palette of things that would count into sexualization

[indigo verge]

i didn't use to actually. i was an avid league player for a long time and was desensitised to it. it was mostly when i showed it to my girlfriend at the time, and then got other women's opinions on it that i looked at it with a more objective lens and realised that yeah, a lot of their cast is actually oversexualised

[heavy magnet]

You're enabling a chunk of what causes it, so don't try and shove it onto me.

[flat grove]

I literally just said what u said bro 💀, i know, its crazy that I think that its completely fine that women themselves can choose to be the way they want to be and that i aknowledge their existance

[untold fox]

I mean, they started with fantasy bikini babes, to the detriment of their characterization often (ashe, miss fortune). They've varied it since with more interesting designs, and dragged some characters into a better state (caitlyn, leblanc). Sorry, just adding more to the torrent here, but trying to find the nuance or detail.

[flat grove]

i think going after designs in 2010s in a big game for its time is also hella unfair no? Like look at other games of that era especially if you look at fantasy games in isolation

the majority of games was simply insensitive

[heavy magnet]

But signwave, what about the pickme's that everyone brings up? Aren't they okay with being objectified?

Doesn't that justify everything?

[flat grove]

i think theyve improved on that alot with some designs and also had a bunch of stinkers

[untold fox]

mostly talking to frog's point. I think there's a wider variety of what count as sexualization for women, too (you seen how people respond to illaoi, or MR's angela?). But that's not deemed the most marketable version of that. I just hope that we get wider variety to all types of characters - both ones that mean to use attraction in appeal (wider variety of attractive types) and ones that don't use attraction in the same way.

[rain forge]

Mercury was funny. Most sexualized mage I've seen in a while

Tetra looks kinda different though

[untold fox]

Plenty of games were bad then, but I don't think 'of its time' should be a valid excuse when it has carried over into being a product they still sell to this day, personally.

[flat grove]

theres multiple that all have very varied characters tbh, like theres one that does it because her literal survival is depending on it while she also has a ton of other character traits when she isnt trying to gather essence obviously, theres another that is just a straight up demon with a ton of other demons that are all based around specific emotions and one last one that is straight up just a cutthroat that uses it to gain control over an island because the previous leader made life worse for everyone

i cant think of another

but theyre all well written enough to be alot more than that

and at least 2 of them are super easy to understand that deeply by just playing the game

[flat grove]

i mean tbf they literally reworked most of their early designs

Most of the bad ones are literally newer designs that were just straight up stinkers

[untold fox]

Which would you call stinkers rn of the new batch? I'm thinking of MF, Ashe, Janna, and... oh who's the plant lady. Zyra? as pretty flagrant of the old guard, and not updated in the way LB and Cait have gotten. Kai'sa isn't a bikini babe, but her looking like she's got a full face of makeup doesn't make sense.

[heavy magnet]

It kind of feels like Nyx is what they should have done for Tetra from the beginning.

She's not perfect, but she's more bulky and heavy feeling than just slapping some rocks on some random college student's arms.

[flat grove]

ashe doesnt wear a bikini anymore shes wearing a full dress, MFs character imo does add up enough to make sense and also got alot of work done (pants and changes to her model directly), janna is the only one i can think of that actually makes sense to call out like that but she also simply wasnt really targeted by any visual updates simply because there was older ones or VGUs that were more nessecary

[hollow crane]

atta boy

[flat grove]

also all iceborn that arent completely merged with trueice have some skin shown on both sides simply because of the nature of trueice putting them in constant pain, theyve started doing this with male designs first and i think the first idea around this emerged with lissandras release and then either gragas' or braums design (i dont fully remember which one it was of the 2 its ages ago tbf)

Thats btw also were the howling abyss originated in

If you compare that to the new ones that are made to sell skins instead like briar (dont mention the og briar splashart) or even kaisa which was one of the biggest letdowns i have ever felt

I dont think its fair to even compare these

because they make 0 sense

one survived inside of the most anti life environments that exists and the other is a literal demon

[untold fox]

briar's a vampiric living weapon, right? Did they reveal she was actually a demon in the style of fid and ev?

[flat grove]

yeah i think thats definetly the most important takeaway from the entire discussion. Details dont matter, what matters is a varied cast with enough ways to identify urself so that people like most of my friends dont go into the game, realise theres no big buff tank guy and then dip

[flat grove]

I mean she is a demon/vampire within the idea of it, shes not a demon in terms of the league demonic 5

Just like Darkin are

Theyre just demons with a red colourscheme

Really creative ones dont get me wrong

[untold fox]

yeah, cuz they're emotion cultivators, usually masking with a second thing (ev being a pain demon who pretends to be a succubus type to cause contrasting more pain, tk being a despaire demon poising as your crossroad demon type to lure people into downward spirals). But yets, void creatures and darkin are just demons 2.0 and 3.0 (with some cthulu sprinkled in)

[flat grove]

yeah but theyre cool af

Yk call me a void glazer but some of their void designs are just genuienly great

If reksais kit wasnt so shit id be ontricking him

Also belveth was criticized a ton on release but shes fucking amazing too

back then people wanted a monster so badly that they felt baited by her

also imo great fictional representation for something that mimics a woman but has the character of someone that wants to overthrow her own system, her voicelines are hella creepy in kind of an uncanny valley way

They didnt ONLY produce stinkers in that regard imo

But yeah, ill never forgive them with kaisa

[raven frost]

I mean why is she wearing it my question

Is it fashion

Why does a death knight care about fashion

At least mercury you can argue she uses sex to sell her potions

[flat grove]

i wrote alot on why i dont mind it with her specfically above, im not gonna do it again, just scroll up until u see my big blob from yesterday

[raven frost]

I ain't scrolling allat icl

If u can reply to it doe

I can read it

[flat grove]

ngl i know this channel too well aint nobody got time for that lets be real

[raven frost]

I always read the stuff people who have brains post

Its trolls who type stupid shit like I feel emasculated because characters have boobs

That shit i don't read

[flat grove]

I think that entire sexualization debate is completely cooked to begin with, im only here for takes on character variety and for the occasional gems of people posting some super niche game characters from ages ago

and obv to moderate

oh also @untold fox if youre interested in some super unique stuff, you should 100% check out some of the designs they have in Legends of Runeterra

theyve done 99% of their cooking in there

[rain forge]

But Nyx is more sexualized than tetra. Isn't everyone complaining about the oversexualization?

And Nyx's bodytype is the same as most of the female cast

[hollow crane]

no u dont get it

[untold fox]

LoR definitely shows what happens when more modern (and less editorially constricted) designs that prioritize character and world come up with

[hollow crane]

nyx has big booTs

[rain forge]

I dont mind the designs but they could be much cooler and more unique

[heavy magnet]

#1407460293281583124 message

[flat grove]

yes, lor clears most of what modern fantasy does tbh

it felt like people that truely loved the universe tried to make things that could genuienly exist in it

and noone looked over their shoulders xD

[untold fox]

and so riot axed them for it

[flat grove]

Are we surprised?

We cant have nice things

[untold fox]

very much not

[heavy magnet]

Also, Nyx wears an actual shirt instead of a battle bra like Tetra.

[flat grove]

like wdym they have octo boxing bets in bilgewater

I hope all these artists have a job somewhere ngl

[rain forge]

fair. maybe all the backlash made them not wanna oversexualize Nyx as much

[flat grove]

"youre getting a tank" and then we get tetra was also just a punch in my face ngl

[rain forge]

Its kinda normal to sexualize female characters in videogames to be fair

[rain forge]

GGS designs are also more unique though

But japanese are really good at character designs

But still most of them are thin and/or busty

[flat grove]

this is done by a japanese studio that is heavily into anime designs, i think most people that argue so heavily in this channel would get a heart attack if they found out how things are done over there

[heavy magnet]

I wouldn't say it's a cultural thing at all. It's just that audiences tend to consume that kind of stuff too much.

[flat grove]

it 100% is

[untold fox]

so in all that I lost the message I meant to send, but I think in short - while intention or empowerment is a dicey argument for characters desgined and marketed for an audience (we can't say x character is choosing to look that way, because x character does not make choices), but how it expresses or makes sense for their character is a thing. It's why I think Eva is largely fine, or you could argue Joule or Celeste's outfits work - they are presented as characters who would sensibly choose that. Nyx's strategic rips, while clearly meant to show a disregard for her physical form (fitting her style as an undead and/or AI possessing a body), are conveniently so that they show no damage or scars to an unmarked body, and the rips are in places meant to show off skin. That feels more in the Kai'Sa branch of 'why are you like this, other than the devs wanted you more marketable'. Combine with the fact this is a wild character whose body type is roughly indistinguishable from the fitter end of the cast, and she feels like she has some missed opportunities.

[heavy magnet]

I already know about Dragon Maid, and I want the people who made that flogged.

[flat grove]

like not aknowledging that japan is alot more lax about sexualization in games and media within anime esque designs is just completely delulu

idk what else to tell you

Its a completely different world compared to the west when it comes to that

[hollow crane]

jp and kr servers didnt care about merc shirt

js

[flat grove]

thats crazy

merc shirt??

[hollow crane]

merc shirt

[flat grove]

I think the change resulted in an overall better design tho ngl

But thats only because i hated the previous iteration xD

[hollow crane]

of mercshirt?

[flat grove]

yea

[flat grove]

oh ffs

i thought u were talking about smth else

not mercury xD

I mean yeah bro look at any game that is made in KR and China with a similar enough artststyle

im telling u heartattacks

[raven frost]

The boob window is dumb but not nearly as dumb as merc so im cool with it

She dossent feel secualized besides rhat

Just feels edgy

[heavy magnet]

Nyx feels very Hot Topic, and I kind of like that.

[flat grove]

I dont think most eyes will have that kinda reaction looking at her like ever, especially if you pick her after seeing her, like with every other non base character

[raven frost]

If i showed you the designs that team made for blazblue you would go crazy

[raven frost]

I personally hate it

[hollow crane]

big boots

[raven frost]

Why advertise me a death knight and give me hor topic goth lady

I want armor man

[hollow crane]

woah shes not goth shes cybergoth if anything

[raven frost]

AND WHY ISNT SHE A TANK

[raven frost]

Same shit basically

[hollow crane]

she is a tank shes a draintank

[hollow crane]

silence

[raven frost]

Is she a felix type drain tank or an actual one like launch eva

I havent got my hands on her yet

[flat grove]

yeah im 100% with u there, they keep baiting us with tanks and all we get are bruisers that dont have tank looks or tank kits

Im a hater to that degree too

[flat grove]

she doesnt protect, she doesnt disrupt, she doesnt lock down

Shes a bruiser

her purpose is dealing damage and staying alive

[raven frost]

So shes a drain tank like yasuo is

Which means shes not

Shes a fighter with life steal

[indigo verge]

it's because TC is really bad at creating character kits in general

unfortunately

melee kits being the worst offenders

[rain forge]

thats true. japan is heavy on sexualization (of all ages...). And japan also has a bit less body diversity I think compared to the a less homogenized culture. So I can see how in the west it's (especially with a lot of progressive ideas) there is a higher demand for more variety and less sexualization.

I heard japan also has beauty-standards that are more strict (not as bad as korea but still bad). Being on their weightier side is not as accepted there.

[untold fox]

just look at this. horrifying female character design coming out of japan.
-# /j, obviously. Very cherry picked. Anime/manga does have a much more common culture of sexualized or outright objectified female character designs - 14 yr old characters who have boobs larger than their heads and whose personality are 'nice and clumsily smashing her boobs into male characters'. There are differences in the norms, and certainly that isn't beyond critique. But yeah, very selective here. In fact, all the properties here also have far more 'conventional' female designs or flagrant titilation - hell, Noi despite looking like that for most the comic, has most her images dedicated to those rarer times she's dressed up more saucily. But it's not monolithic - notably with the exception of the guilty gear character, these all be from properties based on the work of female mangaka - perhaps unsurprisingly, there's a bigger mix of female characters with roles, perspectives, and presentation beyond titilation or being love interests in such works.

[flat grove]

that is undeniable. They have created an environment in which dive is a must to play the game solo and then only created characters that have the capabilities to do so and those that dont basically dont get picked.

[heavy magnet]

Justice my beloved

[flat grove]

Tbf, they even managed to sexualize the fuck out of hawkeye in FMA

[heavy magnet]

Now that I think about it, SUPERVIVE could use a female Hunter like Justice.

[flat grove]

despite her being in uniform most of the time

thats just japan, theres need for fanservice or these crazy projects cant get funding

[rain forge]

why. I personally dont mind sexualized/samey characters much. But I do think more unique designs are cooler and more fun

[untold fox]

I mean we definitely get some moments from her - her bare back being a plot point is a choice - but I don't recall her getting a slave leia moment, at least.

[raven frost]

I just think its not their best work for sure

Tbfh the company was about to close down so I guess they were working under stress

[flat grove]

Idk if it was also in the anime but theres scenes of her showering, that are completely pointless, also just calls with her at home where shes barely wearing anything for no reason

Same with winry who is a literal child but yeah, anime

[raven frost]

Winry is a kid?

Shes 15 at the start??

[flat grove]

yea

[rain forge]

anime things

age of consent is also lower in many japanese states as far as I know

[untold fox]

Sure. I wasn't saying those properties were free of some of the wilder trends of japanese anime/manga - one of those is freaking guilty gear. Just that it's not constant, and some anime or manga (especially those who have female creatives involved) do a better job of having female characters presented other ways at least some of the time, and their character and story isn't so warped by titilation needs.

[heavy magnet]

The common myth is that it's 13, but I think that's only true for Okinawa.

AKA the last place you would find somebody that young, since everybody there is apparently super old.

[flat grove]

its just completely different in how things are viewed over there, characters like mononoke or even more recently Momo Ayase from DanDaDan get praised alot for being great representations of Women in anime, but if you look at the material, its crazy how that can even pass if it was made over here.

Like dandadan literally starts with an SA scene in the first ep

[rain forge]

Seems like they raised it recently

[heavy magnet]

Oh yeah, it was 16.

[rain forge]

But yeah, 2023 is not long ago and their culture was certainly shaped by it

[flat grove]

this always was fake btw, these laws just didnt get changed for a really long time because there was other systems in place to punish, i think just local laws overriding the countrywide law

Im not sure if there was any places where these local laws werent at least 16 even before this

[heavy magnet]

Yeah, it was definitely way higher in almost every prefecture.

[rain forge]

true

[heavy magnet]

still, Dragon Maid sucks and so does everyone who still watches it

[rain forge]

according to GPT anyway

[heavy magnet]

Although I don't even know if it's been renewed for a third season.

[flat grove]

thats what i meant ty!

[untold fox]

It's both rather messed up they started that way and it's still an anime doing better than 95% of anime for centering female perspective and agency and treating women as persons as opposed to waifus. And that's true despite a main character being an 80 yr old who looks 25.

[flat grove]

I mean she gets hella sexualized but most of my female friends keep telling me that shes the most relateable woman in anime theyve seen yet as in "finally a girl that acts like one"

which is another thing anime keeps failing, we need more women that make banger shounen, tbf, gachiakuta was done by a woman and we better dont talk about that hahahaha

I love the mangaka tho, shes an icon

[rain forge]

dandadan started off crazy. many anime have some crazy stuff in it often with underage girls. def very different culturally. With some adult manga you wonder how they can even get published. straight up ped... fantasies

[flat grove]

Yeah i personally dont wanna discuss that here either. I think that might be too far offtopic atp

[rain forge]

fair

[untold fox]

Fair. I think there are differences in thematic, character, and presentation that make DDD an arguably more feminist story than the average anime, but retains the wild bits and the occasional bad look. Off topic from this for sure, though maybe connected in the notion of what assumptions of femme rep are the core issue people find when they critique things like the cast.

[rain forge]

so whats actually the modern pvp game thats the "gold standard" for varied female designs that arent oversexualized?

[flat grove]

I think most people that argue about this just have their own baseline of what is allowed and try to force that upon everything because they think if its not done that way it creates harm

[rain forge]

Because if there arent any I wouldnt blame SV for not taking any risks

[flat grove]

For me most of the things that see complaints in here are things that wont ever arrive in the heads of people because they dont actually are affected by that harm that the designs are supposed to cause or just straight up didnt even notice it because they see the designs as something cohesive instead of being focused on these details

[untold fox]

I think easy ones people might point to could be gigantic, recently deadlock.

[flat grove]

thats why i personally am so against merc because that shit just sticks out alot

[flat grove]

Deadlock definetly.

[rain forge]

I love nausica. Would be cool to have more female characters like that in anime

[flat grove]

Not because deadlock isnt doing anything that could be considered wrong

but because theyre so fucking creative within the bounds theyve set to themselves

like they have this one victorian esque style theyve selected for themselves and still managed to make every character look like something u havent seen before

its so fucking sick

i disagree with it kinda, because i think leaving enough open with the style u choose to have the option for more variety later on is important, but league did this too and then just went and started adding to their universe to make sense where there wasnt

[untold fox]

How do you see deadlock sealing themselves off?

[rain forge]

didnt gigantic fail miserably? its also kinda old, no, just got a revive? deadlock is by valve, they have much more leeway I think. Very big studio that gets so much players and has a lot of money to invest and take risks.

But like whats being played? Overwatch, apex, marvel rivals. Marvel rivals has chinese developers so their stuff is pretty sexualized. OW and apex im not sure, would have to check.

[flat grove]

maybe i lack creativity but i feel like theyll exhaust most of the tropes that specific style gives them at around 30 characters?

But then again, like these guys have cooked so hard

[untold fox]

Urban fantasy noir on a backdrop of 40s-50s diesel punk is a setting. You can always pull more tech, urban legends, historic refs, or fantasy concepts.

[rain forge]

Their style also doesnt appeal to many. I personally dont like it for example. I do prefer more "pretty" designs. But I respect what they are doing.

[flat grove]

yeah but thats still very specific dont you think?

Also kinda hard to add upon in my mind, but i totally admit that i might also just lack creativity

[rain forge]

Good designers can do so much

[flat grove]

Maybe they add some eldritch horror kinda event and expand their universe that way and we just get fucking bloodborne

[untold fox]

Its failure was entirely it being an indie studio entirely in debt before it released, so it didn't fail so much as not instantly and meteorically succeed so well they could afford to keep up with their creditors.

[flat grove]

thats some fucked up levels of mismanagement 💀

[untold fox]

Nature of the beast was there was no way they released without being massively in the red.

[rain forge]

but the rerelease also failed

by another company

maybe they just wanted to milk though

[untold fox]

No more specific than "modern spec ops with occasional darpa style spec tech" and that certainly hasn't stopped r6 siege (not that I'd call them good design, but just showing how narrow a setting is is a pretty arbitrary line)

[flat grove]

yeah but like if a massive success on release is what ure aiming for not to make money but to clear debt, you should rethink what ure doing no?

I was about to say R6 fucking suckssss xD

theyre so ass

[untold fox]

Yeah that was a pretty shallow and cynical attempt at a quick buck rather than a real push I'd say.

[flat grove]

like yeah if you dont care about redundancy and silly looking tacticool bs on already weird looking agents yea, but the reason why i have my doubts with deadlock is because its hard to pull out many amazing designs with if youre that set on ur bounds, but again im probs just not thinking hard enough :D

Ill wait and see

[untold fox]

Sure, but like in creative expression I'd call milspec hyper realism wayyy less creative both as a baseline and in its expression than occult + noir, and the former is the mode of like, 80% of games

[flat grove]

Yeah i can agree with that

any mystic element adds a ton ofc

[rain forge]

looking at apex, def not that oversexualized. You have loba and such but you also have bangalore, alter, Mad Maggie

[flat grove]

Loba is sexualized? I think the only character from that game i can think of is Ash

Assassin robo but has to be thicc

[untold fox]

And because loba is unique, it's easier to see that as a distinct choice and intentional.

[untold fox]

Lobas pants are something, certainly

[flat grove]

Its also a corset, i think with how her design is in general, everything she wears makes total sense and her kabaret kinda design is super unique within a scifi world like apex' is

ash just makes 0 sense compared to it

[indigo verge]

she is literally the eva of apex

she is made specifically as the sexualised character

[flat grove]

this is the other robot

[untold fox]

Ash is also a legacy character from an earlier game. Dunno if they had a model to work from there cuz she spent most the time in a second, larger robot there

[flat grove]

Oh that actually makes alot of sense then, i was surprised to see her in apex ngl

Maybe im just mad that revenant isnt thicc too who knows

[untold fox]

Other simulacrum*. Don't forget path if you're talking robots.

[flat grove]

Completely forogt about pathfinder xD

i mained this mf on releas etoo

[indigo verge]

one of the big reasons it failed was also that they originally released on Windows Store only

[flat grove]

but yeah no rounded hips here either

[indigo verge]

how many people do you know who got their games from the Windows Store

[flat grove]

depends if its on game pass

[indigo verge]

they didn't have game pass back then

[flat grove]

well xD

the answer is 0 then

o7

[indigo verge]

exactly lol

[flat grove]

i honestly didnt even know it existed

[paper ridge]

I didn't want to give a take on Nyx until i got to play her. That time has come.
I think the spell visual effects are really good, at first i found the skull a little tacky but it's kind of grown on me. Every other visual effect is very well done imo. I like the Rhaast esc scythe, I think the inspiration is very clear, but that's fine it's still cool
Same with the sound design i think it's good. Especially the lmbs, they really help to sell the weight of those scythe swings.
That being said I am sad to report that i am not sold on her model/model animations. I feel like the design is insisting that she is this really scary death knight, but i truly don't buy it. To me she comes of as a cosplayer of the real death knight. That might sound harsh and maybe it is I will see as my opinion evolves, but at this moment that is truly how i feel. She is simply too thin and lanky to come of as scary knight and her model animations don't give much more weight to her movements either. She is also definitely nowhere near zombie/wraith like to be scary that way.
I think the overall package is fine, but i can't help but be frustrated with her model since I feel like if they committed to more of a bulky figure and some actual armor this might have been the best design in the game for me.

[untold fox]

yeah, rather caught in the middle to conveniently be conventional thin build (with modest toning and thigh density ala bishop) in a speed suit means she neither gets the intimidating bulk of a knight (either through armor pieces or a more robust build), nor the skeletal wraithlike quality of something undead, or a meat puppet of an ai. Not horrifically sexualized, but makes compromises and pit stops to pay lip service to a borringly narrow sense of attraction.

[rain forge]

No female SV character can be as attractive as hudson unfortunately

[broken wharf]

Yep

[heavy magnet]

So what you're saying is that we should have a plus sized female Hunter to try and get close to Hudson's attractiveness?

[rotund crystal]

i miss old void :(

[dry forge]

Spitting facts right here

[hollow crane]

bump

[trim ingot]

dam aready anouther discussion channel about female hunter designs

[raven frost]

Glad we got nyx bc it shows that sometimes its not sexualization or shapes or any other stupid shit

Sometimes a character just look like shit

[trim ingot]

Real

Shes ugly af

But not sexulaized

[hollow crane]

u guys did this

nyx could have been hot

but no

[hollow crane]

no same one

im just keepin it alive

[trim ingot]

Ah

[rain forge]

But she got the td rip

They tried making her hot but not hot

Pleasing everyone, lol

Or pleasing no one

[trim ingot]

Fair

[storm belfry]

Just make them hot and ignore the nutters

[trim ingot]

Thats giving into the nutters though?

[flat grove]

ill time people out for this, if theres no reason to bring up the discussion, dont do so

If youre bored enough to wanna see pure degeneracy just go to reddit or twitter

[storm belfry]

No look at any game that listens to the 5%. They all fail.

[raven frost]

Even if she was hot she would still look like shit

She looks like shit because her clothes look like shit

And like really thinking about it everyone's fit is ass

Celeste looka fine and joule is the style I guess but like tetra nyx shrike all do not have that shit on

Do not get me started on the crime of fashion that is mercury

Bro

You didnt have anything else in the closet???

Im sorry bro she looks like shit too

Did the rising destory everyone fashion sense

[hollow crane]

its for the armpit fetishists

[broken wharf]

yes in the lore all the scrolls of fashion from centuries ago got lost so nobody knew how to dress anymore because they got collective amnesia

[crude spire]

Had a friend who rarely plays anything but fortnite and fps games check a few supervive character designs since we were on a rant about it.

Showed him Elluna and Void.

At a glance he could tell their role on the team, guess their personality traits and even some abilities.

Then I showed him Nyx and he was completely lost on what she was about. Could tell she probably has to be a figther type maybe assassin due to the scythe. Could not get a read on what she would do besides swing the weapon and kick people due to the oversizes boots. He thought the green stuff on her hinted at maybe ghost powers

After telling him what she was about and described her kit he got bummed out cus he got the first two so well.

Feel its a pretty good example on why nyx'es design is on the bad side. You cant really tell what she is about at a clance

[trim ingot]

Honestly nyx would be alot better if they gave her more armor and maybe a glitching effect

[hollow crane]

mercury and nyx really grew on me

[rotund crystal]

let’s see ur fits buddy

always a dude with an anime pfp judging a ladies clothing

[raven frost]

Imagine how a promiscuous 25 year old woman dresses

Thats me but less clothes

So no I wont show you

Creep

[flat grove]

[gentle summit]

Shit looks too saggy bro

[gentle summit]

buba better on this one but idk her clothes are just straight slotmachine rng

besides gloves n pants ig

[heavy magnet]

Careful, kura’s gonna use that as an excuse for why the female Hunters should have the design philosophy of NFT’s.

[heavy magnet]

Also, “She’s a succubus/demon/person who relies on acting sexy!!!!!” is a cop out designers use to objectify women in a “logical” sense.

[raven frost]

But she dosent look sexy

She looks dumb

Coven Evelyn looks sexy

Ahri is sexy

[heavy magnet]

Yeah, exactly. It’s the same reason why Rouge The Bat’s design fails.

[raven frost]

Well rouge isnt supposed to be sexy

She just wears that stuff bc she likes wearing it

Her occupation does not require her to be sexy

[flat grove]

Bro is gooning on a game for children 💀

[dry forge]

"I don't like it so bad design" is still what feels like 90%+ of the arguments I see. The above stuff as an example of what I mean.

[crude spire]

Saggy??? 😭

[raven frost]

Let me phrase this in a better way so ppl like u can stop typing dumb stuff

She looks like shit because she does not look like the death knight that was promised

Does not effectively look like some futuristic AI inside some robot body or whatever shes supposed to be in lore

The above criticisms of the overall fashion of supervive is not solely because I dont like it but because the fashion does not help the characters convey their roles or personality at all

Mercury does not look like an alchemist she looks like someone is cosplaying a 80s rpg NPC

[dry forge]

U legit said "I don't like how eva looks" and then used that for why she sucked design wise. Which is factionally stupid. But ok.

[raven frost]

Ok let's use context clues here

[raven frost]

Wat do u think this means

Does it mean I dont like how she looks but she fulfills her job well

Dont think so!

I dont like how she looks AND she dosent look sexy which is the point of the character and her reason for being

I do not think so but you are entitled to your opinion

Celeste is way hotter

[broken wharf]

Paqt please respect the opinion of others

[hollow crane]

dont hate on my hags

[rotund crystal]

i will bet whatever that mercury and evas fits clear whatever u can scrounge from the dustbin that is ur closet.

[raven frost]

Sure

[hollow crane]

mercury has good fit im sorry

[trim ingot]

Hers isn't bad its just kinda mid

[crude spire]

Its pretty mid

Honestly would look better if it didnt have the tit window

[broken wharf]

Please remember that in lore the fashion scrolls got destroyed thats why everyone has a weird sense of fashion when dressing

[inland apex]

Insane sentence considering ahri is the most generic "sexy fox" imaginable LMFAO

They hate Eva for her bad bitch energy that they'll never match 💔💔💔

[inland apex]

I said the same shit, the underboob window is so out of place for no reason

[raven frost]

Hey we still run that play for a reason

It dont fail yet

[heavy magnet]

I still think Nyx is a step in the right direction, even if she isn't perfect.

Something about her design and movements feels different from all the other female Hunters.

[crude spire]

There is some attempt to be interesting

[trim ingot]

Yeah

[inland apex]

If nyx is a step in the right direction, this game is totally dead then

identity crisis the character.

[gentle summit]

yeah bro look at it, like a waterballoon thats resting on floor

[gentle summit]

[crude spire]

But like 95% of boobs do that. Especially big ones...

[gentle summit]

yea bro

im ngl

When that shit starts u might aswell decide its time to make family&kids then atleast ur min maxxing

(im not being srs)

[glossy wyvern]

I want more booba characters

[trim ingot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1152317349614080051/1409849624788992131/image0.gif

[crude spire]

Honestly agree. Need more genuinely curvy women.

[hollow crane]

finally someone has the bravery to say what we're all thinkin

[gentle summit]

sexy bitcheeeeeeeessssss

[clear dirge]

I want a game that does not perpetuate the sexualised view of women's bodies by straight men, and that exploits the infinitely creative possibilities of fantasy.

[supple ruin]

I'm sure other people than straight men sexualize womens bodies

[raven frost]

I would like to explore infinitely creative possibilities of fantasy and have attractive characters

[hollow crane]

Most women are disgusting gooners. True gender equality

[gentle summit]

Women are like more undercover when it comes to that lets say that

[hollow crane]

Idk man u must not be on tiktok

They wilding over there haha

[glossy wyvern]

women are awesome

[hollow crane]

I agree

I think @leaden jetty does as well

[gentle summit]

indeed im not ahaha

Ivee seen things here n there and especially behind the scenes of things that make me aware but in other ways im completely oblivious i guess

[hollow crane]

I envy you

[gentle summit]

In what way? Not being on tiktok? ahaha

[flat grove]

I deleted it the moment they sold the platform

very questionable new owners.

[gentle summit]

Idk i haven tbeen on shitlike instagram and snapchat(at times for obvious rasons mb) or facebook also. Its too much constant cancer or useless shit

Just having youtube/discord and at times twitter is already enough for me lol

N i get aids from twitter too so i didnt use it for yeras but now i do cos of being in contact/communities from others

[flat grove]

yeah i can relate

[gentle summit]

Youtube feels like a good central place wherer most things come together also. Funny tiktok shit or w/e usually makes it there anyway

[heavy magnet]

Why are you valuing the opinions of pick-me’s and other people over actual creative freedom?

[hollow crane]

O I didnt know u were based

[raven frost]

I dont rly like how we separate gooning and creative freedom

Like those things arent diametrically opposed

A character being sexualized does not mean they cannot be a creative and deep character and I think some ppl in this channel need to stop being so puritan

[rotund crystal]

wrong. boob leg tummy showing. bad design.

trust me im a 6'5 feminist i want good ladies represented in games.

[leaden jetty]

Puritan: noun. a person who adheres to strict moral or religious principles, esp one opposed to luxury and sensual enjoyment.

[leaden jetty]

do you suggest that some humans have to go back to their claimed ancestors and origin and be animals once again ?

is that what you mean ?

or am i stupid ?

maybe im stupid, cuz i think religion (which brought to us morals - proofed n confirmed 100% - is what separate us form the rest of creatures, and thats why i understood what u said this way.

anyways, i decided and promised some friends not to talk about any subject in Supervive community other than playin the game and talking about the game.

so im out

i jsut woke btw sry i came late

btw from these valuable discussions and fruitful talks, here in the Supervive Game Official Discord Server, do not pxect to find the truth coming from bored people, who cant play the game atm for any reason, but they can kill some time n chat.
please don't expect to find diamonds in the trash.. no offense gentlemen

I think a lot of people her are either degens or weebs.. ijust wanna say that in case if i cant say anyhti anymore

[supple ruin]

The "no offense" does not feel very genuine

[supple ruin]

I'm... not?

[leaden jetty]

BUT <<<< i'm here with you.. so.. we're even now.

[broken wharf]

are you not 6'7?

[raven frost]

Your stupid

[crude spire]

They do say the greatest character designs are made by the horniest people

[supple ruin]

Artists are gonna be so screwed when we figure out how to give machines boners

[inland apex]

Machines can never match the freaky goon that humans have

Especially women gooners, man they are some FREAKS

[crude spire]

Real...

[hollow crane]

Finally al albini is in here

[indigo verge]

not surprising that a supervive player has never seen a woman's breasts in real life

[gentle summit]

Nice assumption out of thin air bro

i fkd more girls than u met up with irl prob XD

[hollow crane]

https://tenor.com/view/straftat-babbdi-creepy-smile-game-zaza-gif-7273358819610190099

[hollow crane]

Mods can u pin this

[gentle summit]

yea go for it, prob not good for their ego and self confidence if i start posting pictures with girls

[hollow crane]

I think u should do it ngl

[gentle summit]

[rotund crystal]

i believe him

[gentle summit]

can only say in your early 20's shit can be wild man

now im like not dating ever pretending im waiting for the one while really i could just be fuckin and shit but aye thats life and ur supposed to mature a bit liek that no? Hmm weird feeling when u dont have true personality and ur like hmmm mb i do this mb i do that but u dont care ither way

[hollow crane]

Beo what the fuck are you saying

[gentle summit]

im just real raw bro

[heavy magnet]

What kind of dressing do you want for that word salad?