Wukong dunking over abyss from out of vision might be the coolest mechanic I've ever witnessed in a

[silk rover]

is the ability to adapt to the meta

[cosmic shell]

I... Can't say I agree

[silk rover]

and by banning meta hunters it actually lessens the diveresty in the game

well u can argue he's better than oath

[cosmic shell]

Banning meta hunters increases diversity what do you mean

[silk rover]

theres no argument he';s better than shiv

[proper wigeon]

I don't think it's that crazy considering that Wukong has a lot of i-frames, dunks, podracing, shields for some reason and being able to stay in the abyss far longer than anyone in the game

[cosmic shell]

It decreases available picks, but increases the viable pool

[silk rover]

in some ways yes

[wary stirrup]

He was honestly more game ruining then shiv was

[radiant saddle]

I feel like that is a pretty accurate statement. RE: The best players are the ones who can adapt to the meta

[proper wigeon]

at least Shiv had some skill to it, with Wukong, can you really miss that much?

[radiant saddle]

Sure Zeka is insane in an assassin mid meta but it is no question Faker is the better player because he can play more than one meta, no?

[grim fox]

Yeah, my quibble is that I think degenerate play patterns are just worse than balance issues to begin with, which is also why I haven't played in 8 months lol

[cosmic shell]

Shiv has some punish windows, even though good players can generally mitigate the "risk" of her "high risk high reward" playstyle

[radiant saddle]

Chip kinda spitting here

[silk rover]

its more interesting having metas based around heroes

[cosmic shell]

Chip rambling at the retirement home bingo night

[silk rover]

fredi i think the main difference is that

i look at it at a macro level

[sterile bone]

Oath always will be, but shiv? Not really

[silk rover]

and you look at it at a very short term and micro level

[cosmic shell]

Both are very valid

[silk rover]

you look at whats fun right now

vs what creates a scene thats healthy

[cosmic shell]

I understand your point

And I don't disagree

I see what you mean dw

[radiant saddle]

Retirement home bingo night better than supervive night rn fr

[proper wigeon]

spent more hours discussing in the Discord than idling I mean queuing in Supervive

https://tenor.com/view/symboli-rudolf-don't-laugh-symboli-rudolf-umamusume-don't-laugh-ishowspeed-cinderella-grey-gif-17715589316938969880

[cosmic shell]

But a good scene is also one that is willing to adapt in an ecosystem as fragile & volatile as this fucking cesspool of a game

[silk rover]

its the thing with fearless

theres a strong case that fearless has actually killed diveristy in the game

[proper wigeon]

I HIGHLY disagree with that

[radiant saddle]

Can you lay out the case

[silk rover]

i'll try and find the post

[cosmic shell]

Like, I have a hard time crediting the idea that we need to trust the devs when the devs have proven they can't be trusted lol

"let TC cook" "TC cooked with this one"

Game proceeds to have its worst meta month since alpha

[radiant saddle]

Ty

[cosmic shell]

How many rounds of Shiv hotfixes are we on at this point?

[silk rover]

cant find it

gg

but basically i think

[cosmic shell]

And now they've pretty much reverted the 1.0 nerfs they gave her, on top of numerous nerfs

So now can we all agree that Shiv needed a nerf coming into 1.0 rather than any sort of buff they gave her?

[silk rover]

its more so that if you find something that breaks the meta

you can only use it for 1 game in a series

i think the argument is that fearless rewards deep hero pools

but it punishes people who find out different meta stratgeys

[wary stirrup]

Are y'all gunna play todays patch and make decisions, or keep sitting on your porch in your rocking chairs talking about how the balance sucks?

[grim fox]

Rocking Chair

[wary stirrup]

Based

[cosmic shell]

Meta this, meta that, the thing is people get sick of playing and watching the same shit and next patch that might address the issue is only coming next month

[kind edge]

Porch

[proper wigeon]

I'm sorry everytime anything related to rounds of hotfixes gets mentioned I can't help but post about Brall still getting nerfs to this day

[cosmic shell]

Rocking chair but at work

[radiant saddle]

Probs not, zero armory sounds miserable

[wary stirrup]

Based

[wary stirrup]

Based

[cosmic shell]

I mean yeah, TC can't be trusted to actually address the roots of problems, so why not let the community that actually care about playing the game make it fun?

[radiant saddle]

Glad we nerfed Joule though she was looking kinda insane as a character.

[cosmic shell]

Joule has the same problem as Shiv, and she can't be both strong & healthy

[proper wigeon]

I'd rather lose to Shiv 99% of my games than lose one single game against Joule

[kind edge]

Idk it's reset day in wow I've got to grind my armory gear by playing rounds of gameplay for random drops of sequentially higher in-game power to bring forwards to my future gameplay sessions

[cosmic shell]

If Joule was good right now, especially with hi-tops (and if grips actually worked on her) she'd be a problem all over again

[radiant saddle]

Almost certainly

Cannot wait to see what the new problem characters are

[proper wigeon]

anyone remember about that era where she could get LSHIFT resets when killing

[cosmic shell]

If attack speed actually affected her attack speed we'd see some BS on the rift

[proper wigeon]

💀 that was a nightmare to play against

[cosmic shell]

Oh yeah lshift reset patch

Good times

It's almost like

If your character is so BS

That you have to skirt the game's rules

And add if/and/or/but to game mechanics everyone has access to

cough Kallista AD ratio on AA

Your character might have fundamental issues that make them incompatible with the game as a whole

[radiant saddle]

I don't think the game's design is conducive to not having something be bonkers abusable each patch, just a race to see what it is

[cosmic shell]

Loki was conducive to sandbox creativity

Now it's just an arms race to whoever can find the next exploit TC didn't test/find/oversee

[silk rover]

tbh i dont think the games core issue stems from wuk/tetra

[grim fox]

The issue is that SV is a trainwreck and a case study of everything you shouldn't do when designing game systems or kits

[silk rover]

i think its far deeper than that

[cosmic shell]

Oh yeah

[radiant saddle]

OMG post the hotbiscuit quote

[proper wigeon]

looks to the right armory

[cosmic shell]

We're barely 20 characters in and we're hitting power creep and mechanical bloat

[grim fox]

He was so real for this

[silk rover]

not even the armoury

i think the biggest issues

XP changes, gold changes and trios

and then the map change

[cosmic shell]

Bring back the level cap please

[wary stirrup]

Map changes far outway any other issue

[silk rover]

those were the things that i think were the core changes i disliked

[silk rover]

nah hard disagree

[cosmic shell]

I'm tired of hitting lvl 6 and having a lvl 8 team pull up on us out of nowhere

[magic canyon]

It will always be so, regardless of what TheoryCraft does, for reference.

Whether it is more or less so, and how enjoyable that experience is, is the question we should actually be asking.

(The answer is "it is more so, and not very enjoyable", but if you needed me to say that to you then you are apparently unable to read your own messages, which I somehow doubt.)

[silk rover]

i think its just pure rececsy bias

from a comp perspective

[cosmic shell]

Pure what now

[silk rover]

recensy

how the fuck

do you spell

[magic canyon]

Recency.

[silk rover]

recent

thank you

[cosmic shell]

Lol

[proper wigeon]

dependency

[silk rover]

but the worst change for comp was trios imo

then xp

then map

then gold

[proper wigeon]

YES THANK YOU

WE miss squads, yes WE including YOU

[cosmic shell]

Was trios that bad?

[wary stirrup]

No one has anything positive to say about the map

[cosmic shell]

I'm fairly neutral

[magic canyon]

It was unfortunate.

[cosmic shell]

But I can see the case for it being bad for teamplay

[radiant saddle]

I see your point

[magic canyon]

If the benefit to casters outweighs all the negatives somehow, I will be flabbergasted.

[radiant saddle]

I thought about it for a second

[silk rover]

i think so

for scrims/comp scene

[magic canyon]

As for the benefits to new players... I laughed.

[silk rover]

the game already had limited depth

and then removing 1 guy lessens it even more

[cosmic shell]

It gives Jin/Wukong/Tetra players who think they're good at the game dopamine hits?

[radiant saddle]

Not fully on board, but I do understand the argument. Not close enough to the scene to have the info to have a strong opinion

[round night]

DON'T WORRY GUYS! Wukong is fixed

Ohh wait

[proper wigeon]

just gonna copy and paste my thoughts on it, not directly about trios but something correlated to it #1407460293281583124 message

the problem with Supervive is that it's not a team game
every character has potential of 1v3'ing and every character is built with that in mind
this game does not have roles, the only role focused character this game has at most is Elluna/Oath

[cosmic shell]

Yes now he can only hit you from 1.5 screens away as opposed to 2

[wary stirrup]

Tbh, remove rocket high tops

They are more of a problem then anything

[cosmic shell]

YES

FUCK

FUCKING HELL

TAKE THAT CRAP OUT OF THE GAME WHO THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA

[silk rover]

yea agreed

[cosmic shell]

If TC is so obsessed with data, I'm really curious to see the data on boot pick rates

[grim fox]

Ngl, I think the game not going all the way with holy trinity is actually a good part of their design philosophy, it's just that game is a total clusterfuck in terms of design and it really doesn't know what it wants to be

[silk rover]

the codification of the game

should be studied imo

[grim fox]

But if you've got a write-up on it stashed somewhere, I'm happy to read it, more info is always good

[cosmic shell]

The tone deafness of TC will be studied

In about a year when video essays on Vive's service closure come out

[magic canyon]

That was somewhat the intent, to my knowledge.

The problem is that they did not commit to this, because they know it is a departure from how competitive team-based hero games are designed in such a way that it will actually alienate people, so they ended up in a lukewarm middle.

[cosmic shell]

Risitas.gif

[proper wigeon]

the resurgence thingy that lasted months was something else

[grim fox]

Might as well get ahead of the curve, no?

[cosmic shell]

Still in norms

[grim fox]

Inshallah, we shall donate the corpse of Supervive to every university's game development/design courses

[magic canyon]

I actually have about a quarter of a script written, but I am not a youtuber, so it will never be completed or see the light of day.

Also, I still need to see how things pan out.

[cosmic shell]

But it's not like you can get a queue pop, let alone a challenging game in norms

[proper wigeon]

Hmm, I can somewhat understand what they're going for but at the same time if they're gonna keep up this design philosophy it has to be consistent. Because Elluna is just genuinely so useless with this philosophy in mind, same with Hudson, well Hudson is useless in the first place rn

[magic canyon]

As I said, they did not commit.

[proper wigeon]

the lukewarm middle is an accurate description considering how inconsistent this is

[grim fox]

Again, if you're willing to let me take a look at it, I'd be happy to

[magic canyon]

The problem is that if they had made it abundantly clear they did not want to do "proper tanks" or "proper healers" that are lacking in the self-sufficiency this game demands, many people would not have bothered trying it.

[wary stirrup]

Well, yea, propper tanks would be sooo fucking boring

I dont wanna ever fucking play overwatch again

[magic canyon]

Not for people who want to play proper tanks, I would imagine.

[proper wigeon]

hardly disagree, you clearly have not played push push push Mundo

[magic canyon]

Mundo is a juggernaut, not a tank.

That is a relevant distinction.

[wary stirrup]

Its playing against that makes it boring, not playing as

[grim fox]

Overwatch
Proper Tanks
Lol, lmao even

[magic canyon]

I personally love playing against tanks, but that is because I play sustained damage/tank shredder characters in most games and slowly murder them.

[proper wigeon]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3Id-jqndnEA?t=11 this is clearly tank damage /j

[magic canyon]

I have watched AloisNL videos before.

And also played Dr. Mundo before.

...and also played immobile backline characters in League of Legends before.

I am unfortunately familiar.

[wary stirrup]

People want fucking GOATS in this game

[magic canyon]

Slippery slope fallacy.

[proper wigeon]

A tank completely ruins that dynamic because our tanks is both a DPS and a tank which invalidates them being a tank but more of a hybrid fighter. In short, they absolutely suck at being the representation of a tank

• Oath for example is an initiator that has a dunk and as well as decent sources of damage
• Kingpin can straight up one shot anyone and he has a dunk
• Hudson... I don't even know if this guy can be called a tank because he's not tanky and he's just bad right now

What I personally want is something like Bristleback from Dota 2 where his damage is so completely ass but all he can do is survive. There are other examples of good tank where you don't see them do that much damage from other games

Chogath/Rammus (League), Raum/Yagorath/Atlas (Paladins) etc.

[magic canyon]

"Bristleback"
"damage completely ass"
Pick one, please.

[proper wigeon]

just don't hit

his whole kit is around countering

[magic canyon]

Do not look that one time when his Aghanim's gave him burst damage.

Also, if you ignore Bristleback, he kills you.

That is why Quill Spray stacks.

[proper wigeon]

early game BB is annoying af poke laner but late game... he's worse but he fills the role of a good tank properly

[magic canyon]

You are forced to deal with him regardless.

A "tank" in the way you are thinking of it is something like a Centaur Warrunner, I would argue.

[proper wigeon]

mmm fair

that's a good one

[magic canyon]

At any rate, the issue with this idea is that "being unkillable" is actually very broken in a game like SUPERVIVE, where just living forever is a viable (and obnoxious) win condition.

[proper wigeon]

I don't think so when dunks and storm does so much damage

[radiant saddle]

It's certainly possible to design tanks or juggernauts that are not a slog to play against but it is true that such a feat has escaped the supervive dev team / combat design langauge

[jade lagoon]

wth

[proper wigeon]

to be a tank you don't really need to be better than everybody else, you just need to survive 10 seconds longer

[magic canyon]

If ratting was not a viable option, Brall would be approximately 20% worse, Jin would be 40% worse (is that possible?) and Elluna would be 70% worse.

[grim fox]

Expanding on this a little more, I think that by the very nature of the game itself, Supervive needs self-sufficient characters, I'm not even sure how or if a more role-focused SV would be fun, let alone work

[proper wigeon]

mmm that's fair, role-focused SV wouldn't work right now because, playerbase

[wary stirrup]

It also just wouldn't work, I dont think this game works well if you force people into roles

[silk rover]

yea agreed

role based gameplay was the best time in the game

DPS slop meta is far less enjoyable for coordianted teams

it is what it is

[proper wigeon]

it's just a matter of designing it properly. I do think tanks will work as long as you don't make them a hybrid fighter/juggernaut where they can do decent amounts of damage

you could just make a tank be highly immobile and it'll sit comfortably at around B to C-tier because that mf ain't crossing no abyss and this Hunter will only work with teammates around as a CC-heavy Hunter or a buff hunter

[wary stirrup]

Tbh, the game needs to lean back into teamplay

I dont give a fuck about solo potential

[silk rover]

agreed

thats why i wish they printed more tank/supp chars

[cosmic yew]

mercury is pretty role-based, so is tetra eva and carbine

they do kinda try to bring it back to that direction

[silk rover]

tetra carbine arent role based at all

eva maybe

[proper wigeon]

disagree with that, Tetra/Carbine aren't role based

[wary stirrup]

Nah, fuck that. Just make every kit more utilitarian, more tanks and supports is a very dumb way to look at it.

[cosmic yew]

hmm?

[wary stirrup]

Carbine is extremely role based when people actually play him

[cosmic yew]

tetra is a controller

[wary stirrup]

Everyone just wants to play him DPS

[silk rover]

how is carbine role based

[cosmic yew]

like a genuine controller

[wary stirrup]

Thats stupid

[silk rover]

in any way?

[proper wigeon]

yeah a controller that can solo teams

[silk rover]

no tetra is an engage hero mostly

[proper wigeon]

her splash damage is ridiculous

[cosmic yew]

i play her controller and i win 3/4 scrimset people who play her dps are omega coping imo

[silk rover]

poke into engage

[wary stirrup]

Carbine is all about picks, and locking enemies down, while also disengaging enemies

[proper wigeon]

Carbine is also not a role based character, he's just like Ghost/Myth/Shrike

[wary stirrup]

If a ghost is behind, he cant do much to help his team, if a carbine is behind he can do soo much to help his team

[silk rover]

carbine is just a different version of myth really

and controller is very similar role to pure DPS

like there so much overlap between them

but tetra doesnt control anywhere near the way a celeste does

or even a void to a lesser degree

its mostly there needs to be more hunters that have value outside of just killing you

[radiant saddle]

There isn't much to the game outside of killing someone

[silk rover]

yea

its why i love oath

[radiant saddle]

Most of the utlity tools are on items and consumables so

[silk rover]

he's like the only hero that actually has something in his kit outside of just killing

[grim fox]

Too bad, TC understands "value" as 2.5 second stuns that convert into instagibs

[wary stirrup]

Lol, nah, oath is still just about killing, you can try convince yourself otherise but he is just about bullying someone to death and killing them, but making it look like you had to do more.

[silk rover]

[wary stirrup]

I mean, if you dont actually play carbine this is true

[silk rover]

i do play carbine

90% of his value is in his LMB

[wary stirrup]

LMAO

Ok, sure

[magic canyon]

Well, the value in Oath's kit is mostly just preventing yourself and other people from being killed.

[radiant saddle]

Oath has a crap top of utility. That is why he is much better in better player's hands

[magic canyon]

So it is still on the "kill" axis.

It is just different from "I kill you".

That said, this is a PvP game, so until the SUPERVIVE:Stardew Valley edition drops, I think that is somewhat inevitable.

[cosmic yew]

carbine is a adc

idk what to tell u

[cosmic shell]

Chip right here tho

[proper wigeon]

same with Ghost/Myth/Shrike but they aren't hardlocked to their roles as much as Elluna or Eva

[cosmic yew]

ELLUNA????

[proper wigeon]

yes? her ult is useless without anyone in the vicinity

[radiant saddle]

Oath is the only design that can interrupt another player's flow chart and ruin a combo on behalf of an ally. Makes him very strong in the right hands

[cosmic yew]

elluna is more assasin than support

[proper wigeon]

[cosmic yew]

u think im baiting but im not

there is a way to go support but its more related to absurd mobility on shift-max

and less to healing / ulting

her best build is rmb max with damage items or bruiser (essence reaper)

[proper wigeon]

there are certain roles characters go to but there are also playstyles that certain characters CAN go to but it's not their designed way of playing

Elluna is an example of that

We can also say that Wukong's role is tanking despite being a DPS/intiator considering he has multiple i-frames and shields. Yes he can do that, but he's not a tank, he can just do that

[cosmic yew]

But i wont say that

he is a initiator and poker

carbine is role limited to being a adc

ghost can play controller

or poke

[wary stirrup]

Carbine can be controller more then Ghost IMO

He also has some of the best pick potential in the game with his shift

[cosmic yew]

ill accept assassin

as his 2nd role

[silk rover]

i mean like what does carbine do outside of lmb

like unironically

he has self peel

and a semi decent zoning tool on his E

but he is a much worse controller than even myth

like when carbine dealt 20% less lmb damage he was unplayable

you could give oath 20% less lmb damage and he'd still be S tier

[wary stirrup]

His shift gives him one of the better slows in the game, his RMB is one of the better engage stuns in the game, his wall can catch people running and slow their escape, and be used for poke, his ult is one of the best finishing tools in the game, and makes him one of the best abyss fighters in the game, along with his movements

[silk rover]

i mean he is basically just myth

myth does very similar things

but she controlls a bit more

[wary stirrup]

But I mean yea, his LMB is most of his kits damage

She controls more cause people dont know how to play around her, and there really arent any amazing myths that actively play the game anymore

No one actively tried to learn her over OB

They just played her cause she was OP

[silk rover]

yea i mean she was never the hardest hero regardless of her strengh

but i feel like kit wise myth provides far more utility than carbine

[wary stirrup]

Eh, thats a perspective thing, carbine provides a lot different utility

[silk rover]

the main thing is that carbine is better at chasing imo

[grim fox]

I remember being so pissed when we first got her kit, I genuinely have no idea how any designer thought her kit looked sound enough to even bother put on paper, let alone dedicate devlopment time to

[arctic citrus]

I've made the same comparison before, they've got so many similar elements its crazy.

for all of OB myth was just better carbine

[spice chasm]

@chilly parrot can we make an option to set the star level of relics in customs? (It is highly requested from the scrim/tourney players - I'm extremely surprised the patch didnt go live with this tbh)

[astral crystal]

@chilly parrot can we also fix shivs dagger not working half of the time? like this might be the most important bug that needs to be fixed in the game rn

yeah idk why they thought launching this without the option to select 1* or 2* relics

[jade lagoon]

@ ing devs... and about diff stuff than the discussion topic

[spice chasm]

could also just dm him

doesnt really change anything

[hoary talon]

ofc the shiv player says the shiv bug is most important

[astral crystal]

bro if there was a bug that oath couldnt use his heal it would also ruin his character?

if crysta couldnt rmb it would ruin her character

if bishop couldnt punch it would ruin her character

[hoary talon]

what about if there was an oath bug where you cant use your dash

[astral crystal]

also should be fixed

[astral crystal]

both of them should have high prio right?

[chilly parrot]

I think there's some work going on that, not 100% sure, but yeah, it's not in this patch

[astral crystal]

what about the shiv dagger bug?

[chilly parrot]

I need some video or more specific description for it

it doesn't work when thrown over the abyss so there's a lot of cases where it's not going to appear that are expected

[astral crystal]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1403339218633363456

almost got shiv mastery 9

but I just cant play the character

I thought u guys already noted this down

[astral crystal]

as u can see by the post https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1403339218633363456 it just doesnt work and it happens very often, I cant even begin to count how many times ive died bcs of this

[jade lagoon]

its in bug report

[astral crystal]

so is it noted down now?

[jade lagoon]

should be, if i understood it correctly.

maybe it needs more reports and clips or other info, but yh if its a bug, report it in there

[ornate ember]

hey koalifier

wbt fixing saros bugs

that were reported 1000 times

since his release

[chilly parrot]

I'll make sure we look at this. Guessing the teleport is not forgiving enough if the dagger is in a corner where there's no room to fit Shiv

it's been noted already, it's just earlier you said "fix the shiv dagger bug" but it wasn't specific so I gotta ask rather than assume it's this one

[chilly parrot]

can you be more specific, with threads or video or descriptions of the bugs?

I am aware of many bugs that we have, but if you're not specific I'm just going to assume the bugs that I'm already trying to get fixed are the ones you are looking for, but if I'm wrong, you will be mad that we didn't fix the bugs that YOU were thinking of

[ornate ember]

I know you are working in the rmb fix

What about the shift 2 hitbox being incorrect

[chilly parrot]

which Saros RMB fix?

[ornate ember]

I've reported it multiple times to safelocked in her threads

Which??

[chilly parrot]

I'm not safelocked!

[ornate ember]

There's more than one??

The one that makes u unable to shot

[chilly parrot]

most things in most games have many bugs, but a lot of people don't notice or care about them

I want to know which bugs you are experiencing that YOU care about so I can make sure we fix them

[ornate ember]

Well, the rmb bug that you can't shoot, shift2 visual hitbox is literally incorrect and we still have the portal bug that makes u go in and back and also sometimes u can't enter on it

[chilly parrot]

do you have clips showing the RMB not letting you shoot?

[ornate ember]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1352396979933806675

[chilly parrot]

ah okay great, yeah this one

[ornate ember]

And btw u also can't proc sunweaver and thunderbolt using only saros rmbs idk if it's intentional or a bug

[chilly parrot]

hmmmm, do you have recent examples of it happening? Can you turn on the graphs shown in the video that I shared as well as the packet loss graphs? We found that the bug was mostly fixed by a change that we made a while ago, but it could still happen if you had a bad enough network connection

would be good to understand if you can reproduce it but also while not having network issues show up in the graphs

[ornate ember]

Yes not everyone has it

like me

[chilly parrot]

in our testing you had to have pretty bad packet loss to get it to happen often

[ornate ember]

I play almost 60 ping

And I don't have e The bug

but everyone else has it as far as I know

@wet flower

[chilly parrot]

yeah I think what would be the most helpful is videos of people experiencing the bug while playing with all the network graphs active. If it only happens with packet loss, the fix is different than if it happens in general. As far as I'm aware, it now requires pretty bad packetloss to get it to happen since our last fix attempt, but it's still technically possible. Given the threshhold of packetloss required, I don't think it's something we need to fix, but if lots of people in the community are still seeing it, then it might be worthwhile

[ornate ember]

Alright I'll tell the saros mains about that

Thanks koalifier

[chilly parrot]

that's intended. Toggleable things shouldn't "count" for these procs because it's too trivial to use

[chilly parrot]

the portal got some bugfixes in 1.02 so lmk if it's still a big problem

specifically making it easier to go in when you're a little below or above it

[ornate ember]

And btw his shift2 visual hitbox is different than the real hitbox

[ornate ember]

Honestly it still bugs sometimes

[chilly parrot]

yeah the real hitbox is a thin cone and the visual looks more like a wide cone

I'm not sure if we'll fix it since reworking the art is kind of expensive and it's like.... mostly accurate

[ornate ember]

That's a bug REALLY annoying

[chilly parrot]

hmmmm

the other part of the problem is the hitbox is a cone, so it's way thinner next to him than at the edge

because of math

there's not a great way to show that unless you just actually change it to be a non-cone shape

I'll put it on the backlog, just saying it's surprisingly complicated to fix and fix well, so it won't happen fast

[ornate ember]

Alright that's it, tysm

[chilly parrot]

[ornate ember]

It's rlly good to have some devs feedback in things like this

[chilly parrot]

okay I'm ngl the hitbox on the shift-slash doesn't feel that bad to me rn

I remember it being worse

testing it right now

[ornate ember]

When u get used in practice mode is easier

But in game

U forget about the real hitbox

Even with a lot of hours in saros I miss it alot

[toxic helm]

@chilly parrot

Hi, regarding portal bug, sometimes it sends me right back, I tried to reproduce it in practice range but haven't figured out how yet. I would say a possible fix would be adding an internal cooldown of like 0.1s so it cant replicated. To be fair it is hard to replicate and happens rarely, but when it happens it really ruins the whole play, often death is the penalty. Would be great if you guys could fix it in a few patches down the road.

Here is example clip of happening it

https://medal.tv/de/games/supervive/clips/kW9wAaQxedzfgKd_B?invite=cr-MSw1c0gsNDI4ODE0NDIz&v=15

I tested the RMB bug and it happens very rarely, especially this patch it seems like. It is pretty good even though it happens very rarely now (I have pretty good connection and overall pc, I must say)

Shift-cone adjustment would be nice but not really necessary, in my opinion. You just have to aim extra well in very close range.

And so far I haven't really encountered any other Saros bugs/issues.

Yea, just wanted to point this out. Might be helpful, hopefully. Cheers (and thanks for the patch, great patch overall)

[astral crystal]

No worries, appreciate the communication ❤️

[wet flower]

The RMB bug I play at like 10-25 ping and I get it consistently, it seems to happen more when you time your shot to exactly when you're able to shoot again. It doesn't happen in practice tool for me as much as it does in game I have no explanation for that but when I played Saros in scrims my team would lose fights because the RMB would bug 3 shots in a row

[wet flower]

Also thanks for pinging me sorry I didn't see til late ♥️

[cosmic yew]

worth noting that shrike has the same issues, if you tap your shot it often ends up cancelling after the click-click sound

so to make sure ur lmb actually casts 100% of the time u have to hold it, which feels worse, atleast to me

[toxic helm]

Ehhhhhhh, yea... this definitely doesn't feel good...

[chilly parrot]

in our testing it was more related to packet loss than to ping

[chilly parrot]

oof - fix was oriented more around high/low ground. That piece of terrain is probably not working well. Will take a look

[wet flower]

I've had that happen in prisma falls by the Basecamp North East rock as well, and to the north of mana coils by the shop where the anamoly can take you over the big stretch of terrain towards site 38

I don't have clips or id post them hope the description is good enough xd

[chilly parrot]

yeah I think we'll need to do a pass across the map to look at places where it fails on flat ground, then take a peek and see if we want to fix it on the map, or change the spell. My gut is changing the spell is more likely to be fruitful

fix will probably take a while, but I'll try to at least get the scope of the work figured out soon

[wet flower]

Appreciate you if you get the RMB fixed I will play Saros in scrims in celebration of your name

[toxic helm]

Changing the spell in terms of completely reworking his ult (like scrapping current portal concept and make something completely new) or am I misunderstanding here?

ohhhhhhhhhh

You meant like changing the map slightly so it works on saros portals better rather than changing portal's code in terms of how it works. I got it now. lol

My dumbass lol

[chilly parrot]

if you can play with packet loss graphs and get me some clips showing how it looks, that would be super valuable. I'm no longer able to reproduce the bug after our fix, unless I induce severe packet loss, so I think being able to see what is happening when you get it (and to see if there is or is not packet loss) would be crucial to make more progress on it

[chilly parrot]

yeah it's like:
-Change everything in the map to behave correctly with Saros Portal
-Make Saros' Portal more resilient to weird map shapes

#2 is probably better for a variety of reasons, but doing stuff like that usually takes a while because you need to do a lot of tweaking and testing

[toxic helm]

On my side, it happens quite rarely, if I had to guess, like every 2-3 RMBs out of 100 RMBs are getting cancelled like that. I enabled all graphs. Hopefully, this could help a bit. Sprocaine's graphs most likely will be more helpful.

(Current patch)

(I was spamming LMB while holding RMB all the time)

[chilly parrot]

this looks clean to me, no bug here right?

[toxic helm]

At 00:07 a RMB got cancelled, it zoomed in shortly and zoomed out very fast again, it started charging another RMB while the previous RMB did not shoot (Mana was refunded for some reason)

[chilly parrot]

ah yeah, you can see by the damage that's a base LMB mixed in, not an RMB

[toxic helm]

And it shoot a normal LMB although I was holding the RMB button

[toxic helm]

nono

[chilly parrot]

yeah I wonder if the spell buffering flagged that you clicked LMB, but then there's a brief window where you can squeeze out the base LMB even when RMB is held down

[toxic helm]

it actually for some reason just shoot the LMB instead of RMB even though I was holding RMB which means if I click LMB it should shoot the charged attack instead of normal one

[chilly parrot]

yeah for some reason I assumed you just go of RMB for a second. I wonder if there's just a very specific timing window where you can buffer an RMB-LMB that the game can interpret it as an LMB

will dig into it a bit, this is very helpful

bug will probably not be fixed quickly - we've already spent a lot of time on this and reproducing it internally, as I mentioned, has gotten hard. That said if this vid leads to a clean repro, then suddenly it will be much easier to fix. 🤞 hopefully I can reproduce it

[toxic helm]

I will setup an input overlay so you can see which buttons I press while performing the RMBs, might be helpful. Ill need to download the software first, might take awhile

[formal granite]

I need a copypasta for why wukong isn’t broken this patch

[cosmic yew]

huh?

[rigid sigil]

No copypasta necessary. Wukong is super strong haha

[cosmic yew]

I think he got hit where he needed to be hit

perfectly balanced now

although with the right items u can still dunk from 100-0 lmao

[chilly parrot]

I use NohBoard for testing, it's free and easy and so far safe

[toxic helm]

Wait, ill send a different file

[toxic helm]

Here are the inputs to produce this bug. No keyboard inputs, only mouse. (Took a bit longer than anticipated because OBS-Studio went crazy after setting up the plugin)

Especially from 00:30 to 00:33

You also should probably see this, this was recorded by a guy who had access to the playtest before the 1.02 patch release. We thought the bug would be completely fixed when the patch goes live. It went live, tests were done and seems like it is still here.

Maybe checking out some difference between playtest servers and live servers could help for faster and better troubleshooting.

https://discordapp.com/channels/852642429105995786/859865616000876564/1407537732367941853

[chilly parrot]

that was related to a bug where his attack speed was much higher than intended, which was fixed before the patch shipped

[toxic helm]

Ahhhhh, yea that makes sense, I believe machine gunning charged shots wouldve been completely OP on him anyway, lol. ❤️

[molten carbon]

How long is this fucking discussion DAMN

[sterile bone]

This post became a general discussion about basically anything, and with a dev. So yea

[chilly parrot]

the title of this discussion is now "Koalifier is in here and doesn't have the self control to leave so just post random shit in here and he might read it"

[jade lagoon]

[fierce wraith]

Hi koalifier!

[chilly parrot]

hello!

[lethal vault]

I believe in your ability to have self control! You can do it! Though we also appreciate the responses

[jade lagoon]

need a "look at me... im the CM now" meme with koalifier and pwyff

/lh /jk /love you kevin

[chilly parrot]

the real, extremely honest truth, is that I deleted a bunch of social media and brainrot apps from my phone, so now when I'm bored I open up discord, which would be fine except this is also my job so my work life balance is chronically bad (but I guess it always has been)

[vapid zinc]

is the wukong bhop not reseting when you do lmb 3 or lmb 2 a bug or a intended interaction

[tawdry lion]

Goodwill ++

[vapid zinc]

for further explanation

after 4-6 wukong bhops

your bhop stops completely

and it should reset in 6 seconds

but if you lmb1 glide and lmb2 glide it doesnt reset

same thing if you throw lmb3

by lmb1 lmb2 and lmb 3 i refer to the lmb tapped combo

[cosmic yew]

probably helpful if u provide a clip @vapid zinc

[vapid zinc]

its hard to clip that cause ill have to place a timer and shit

but ill try

probably later

[cosmic yew]

Is it intended that Elluna isnt receiving a dash reset from the green abyss jellys? Every other hunter ive played can destroy them and dash over the small orb for a reset except her. @chilly parrot
I asked safelocked about this a while ago and she wasnt sure, so i never ended up getting a confirmation if intentional or bugged.

[radiant saddle]

Do you want my hummus recipe

It's kinda fire

[jade lagoon]

[radiant saddle]

Look how smooth this is...

🤤

[jade lagoon]

sheeeeeeeeesh

[radiant saddle]

The trick is to use an alkaline solution when you are cooking them so the little stupid shell on the bean dissolves

[swift furnace]

Everyone start posting memes for koalifer

[chilly parrot]

can you grab me a clip showing how it looks?

[vapid zinc]

yeah im on it

[chilly parrot]

sounds like a bug, clip?

[chilly parrot]

ngl I love hummus, so yeah send it on over

[radiant saddle]

The cost savings on making your own is insane

[vapid zinc]

https://medal.tv/games/supervive/clips/kWx9dOJ8GT7mXYfmR?invite=cr-MSxnQzgsMzExNTkwMDM5

as you can see i spam the tapped lmb for 12 second i think, and my bhop didnt reset

[cosmic yew]

Ill hop in a coop-vs-ai later and provide a clip, but its easy to replicate, its just those green abyss jellies (the bouncy ones) upon being killed they spawn a small green orb that resets glider fuel and dash cooldown, except it doesnt for elluna dash

[chilly parrot]

yeah we make our own sometimes but I'm always down for new recipes

[vapid zinc]

if you only do lmb1 it resets but on lmb2 and lmb3 it doesnt

p much

[radiant saddle]

▪1lb/450g dry garbanzo beans
▪2Qt/kg water
▪8g or 1 2/3tsp baking soda
▪300g or 1 1/3c tahini
▪20g or 1.5Tbsp salt
▪60g or 1/4c lemon juice
▪4-5g or 1tsp citric acid
▪50g or 1/4c extra virgin olive oil
▪90-125g ice cubes (5-9 cubes)

Add the beans to a tall container, add 2qt water, stir, and allow to soak overnight. They should have nearly doubled in size.

Add soaked beans and water into a pressure cooker along with baking soda. Cook under high pressure for 90 minutes then allow pressure to release for 20 minutes. Beans should be soft but not disintegrated. Drain off as much cooking liquid as possible then transfer beans to a food processor along with tahini, salt, lemon juice, and citric acid. Process for 3 minutes then stream in olive oil while still spinning. Then add in ice cubes one at a time until hummus reaches desired texture/consistency.

[chilly parrot]

okay I see what you mean. Yes, this is intended

[vapid zinc]

i see

[swift furnace]

Goat, I'll try this

[chilly parrot]

okay but what if I don't have a pressure cooker

[radiant saddle]

Do you have an instant pot?

[cosmic yew]

Chef furotiza certified

[chilly parrot]

no

[radiant saddle]

Tough break

[swift furnace]

Essentially you just want to cook the beans so that they're soft, a pressure cooker isn't needed

[radiant saddle]

^

[swift furnace]

But time is the difference here

[radiant saddle]

The pressure cooker makes it so much faster

You can cook them on the stove top but it will take longer, not sure the exact time increase as I always opt for the pressure cooker

Aiming for the same consistency. Soft but not disintegrated

[swift furnace]

A friend of mine has an olive oil production company so this recipe has come at the right time. This Italian olive oil is going to slap in this recipe

[radiant saddle]

Jealous

Wish I had a friend like that

Hope you love it!

[chilly parrot]

yeah probably just need to simmer them most of the day

house gonna be stinky

[swift furnace]

Thank you!

[rigid sigil]

Make sure you take breaks and get some sunlight! Pop on a nice song once in a while and just vibe. Also drink loads of water. Take care of yourself king

[lethal vault]

Happens with a lot of characters, I know shiv & oath and I think KP too but I might be wrong with KP

[cosmic yew]

yea KP also gets no reset

KP and elluna have the same dash behaviors, in open beta for instance they were the only characters who couldnt dash bungee pull

[lethal vault]

Shiv is probably the least effected since she can reset off just shooting it but 🤷‍♂️

[swift furnace]

yo @chilly parrot any news on the zeph bug: nade being cancelled if you cast it and then glide immediately (but it goes on full cooldown and doesn't get cast)

https://medal.tv/games/supervive/clips/kWguYZGYAPwO-fJwR?invite=cr-MSxEVG4sMzUzOTc0NTc4 happens just after 30 secs, is super easy to replicate and always has been

[cosmic yew]

tbf this happens with half the character roster if you glide during cast, elluna root, eva ultimate etc

[swift furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/basketball-gif-18438054

lets get rid of thattttttttttt

[rigid sigil]

I'd rather it exist than not have it. Being able to cancel channels with glider helps to get out of bad situations where you'd be stuck in cast.

[wary stirrup]

Its also a nice skill check with a hunter

[chilly parrot]

new to me, thanks for the report. I think Luca is generally correct here, we let you glide whenever you want (mostly) so you don't get locked in an animation and die when you need to glide, which also will cancel the ability. My gut is that we wouldn't fix this case since it applies to a ton of people

we generally try not to refund the cooldown when that happens because it can lead to some exploits

[lethal vault]

It also happens with Void Q but in that case the placement VFX still plays, so it's especially confusing/deceptive. Would be nice if the VFX also got fully interrupted too so at least it would be a little less confusing.

[fathom cosmos]

@chilly parrot mind if i DM u a bug that i dont want out to public so u guys can fix that or disable an item? its pretty gamebreaking lol.

like if it got out and ppl used it im 100% just not playing this game

[chilly parrot]

sure

[lethal vault]

A lot of the time I wouldn't even notice it didn't place since the VFX would hide that the pool didn't actually appear. so if you start looking somewhere else after placing it wouldn't be obvious that it didn't actually get used.

Not a big deal though in the grand scheme of things

[swift furnace]

@chilly parrot any news on ranked restrictions (not being able to queue with anyone) for GM/Legend? game feels horrible to play at that elo

[chilly parrot]

I'm the bug/gameplay guy

[delicate bronze]

do you maybe know what will happen to prisma if someone already has fully upgraded armory?

like there will be full reset (both item levels and prisma) or prisma will stay to get ahead in next season

TC added this sytem for retention but now when I finished both battlepass and armory in ~3 weeks, there is nothing to do expect playing rankeds

well armory is part

of the gameplay

: )

[cosmic yew]

https://medal.tv/games/supervive/clips/kWAEQ692oyHuqu2Oe?invite=cr-MSxpclYsMjMwMjM0MzE

[chilly parrot]

armory behavior in-game: talk to me
armory behavior out-of-game: talk to me only if it's a bug because idk as much about that

I am still the bug guy for any bug at all

bruh the joule mega LMB bug

[cosmic yew]

Any idea what happend here? Seems theres a new joule bug randomly occurring with people getting oneshot randomly @chilly parrot

[chilly parrot]

this is the second time I've seen this I have no idea

ty for posting going to try to dig into it, I'd forgotten about this

[spice chasm]

yo thats me

[chilly parrot]

are you a big spammer? gimme some deets on what you were doing here

chrono + ardent?

[spice chasm]

was running that that game - but just happened to find them 3* so i ran it

im pretty sure i did click shift

but i just didnt shift myself somehow

[lethal vault]

There is a joule bug where shift TPs back to start, if you think you shifted maybe it could be related to that?

[chilly parrot]

I swear I saw this bug posted somewhere else but I don't remember

dang

[lethal vault]

I think I posted an instance of it

Pinged you in that report for the joule "dashn't"

In creatorcord

[vapid zinc]

@chilly parrot by any chance are iframes from wukong ult reduced

[chilly parrot]

not that I know of

[vapid zinc]

feels off

i just hitted ult and got hitted by a zeph ult anyways

[chilly parrot]

ty! I was referring to the instakill LMB spam thing, but noted anyway

[vapid zinc]

https://medal.tv/es/games/supervive/clips/kWBPVkIqZ1yM3mxMp?invite=cr-MSw5bm0sMzExNTkwMDM5&v=4

i mean im ngl if this is normal

the ult is the most useless iframes ever

sry for music

its kinda pointless having iframes if you cant use them

[rigid sigil]

the i frames this patch feel much less forgiving. This is a good thing imo, they were way too easy to use before and trivialized certain matchups

[cosmic yew]

my teammate runs wukong every game in scrims and hasnt had this problem so this 1 instance is prob a bug

[toxic helm]

I think it is just the ult has a cast time, it isnt instant, the ability itself didnt go on cooldown which probably means that you just didnt press it early enough

[vapid zinc]

okay but like

0,5

i know when i should have the iframes

but this just felt off

[lethal vault]

Could it have been lag or packet loss?

Can't tell what graphs you have

[vapid zinc]

either way theres no invulnerability thing

[vapid zinc]

nah

i have a p good pc

[lethal vault]

network stuff usually isn't very related to how good your pc is

[vapid zinc]

i mean its going well usually

but 1/20 times it bugs

i have good wifi

36 ms

and if the invulnability has that much delay its just dumb

why would u put delay on a parry ability

meanwhile brall has a instant one

also nerfing bhop to the ground, when brall has x3 more movility

the hunter is not guted but

i just want to not have a delay on every ability

[rigid sigil]

Bhop feels almost exactly the same as last patch to me

[vapid zinc]

u dont know about it not reseting when you use lmb?

[rigid sigil]

I've had no issues maintaining momentum. Are you using your short dash to kickstart it?

[vapid zinc]

im doing the normal one bro

long short

long short

[rigid sigil]

idk it just feels like it tapers off earlier, but even through that you can maintain some super high momentum. I don't want to say this to be mean or anything but I think you're just doing it wrong

[vapid zinc]

its hard to do it wrong im ngl

like its not zeph bhop

dont put it like a hard af mechanic

i can do it like 7-8 times

[rigid sigil]

yeah that's plenty. should have short dash back up to get momentum back up at that point

[vapid zinc]

it doesnt give bhop

i stg

it likes gives 3 at max

with boots

[vapid zinc]

do u want me to show u how t fcking bhop doesnt reset for 1 year

im ngl seems like u didnt play 1.02

[chilly parrot]

I think hittin the i-frame timing against Zeph ulti is going to be nearly impossible, zeph ulti is a huge, slow projectile

iframe would need to be over 1 second probably to dodge a zeph ult

[vapid zinc]

you can parry it and dash out with the ult

i did it lots of times

tho this time the iframe just felt wrong

idk why

maiby its me or a lag spike

[rigid sigil]

It seems like you missed part of what I said. I said it seems like the podrace (lmb impulse) tapers off earlier, but despite that you can keep momentum by dashing again. I'm not saying it will reset the timer, just that the timer seems to be working as intended now

[chilly parrot]

can you also parry it with tree?

[vapid zinc]

i dont think so

actually i never tried

[chilly parrot]

given the hunter has iframe on ult + semi-iframe on tree + huge shield on RMB, I'm not too worried about making all of that more forgiving

I could be wrong, but IIRC you can block one shot with tree. Might not work on Zeph ult because it's special

[vapid zinc]

yes you can block most of the projectiles with tree

if they are not aoe or stuns

exept void

[vapid zinc]

i dont disagree, but i think it can be tilting sometimes to cast an ability for it to have a delay

most of the times the 0,1s or 0,2s dont make the difference, but when they do it feels off

it might have be that way tho

[chilly parrot]

yeah I think it has to have it to create more opportunity for opponents to outplay

well, it doesn't HAVE to have it, but it's good for that

[toxic helm]

@chilly parrot

Hi, Koalifier! I just want you to know that I underestimated the frequency of this bug (Portal Loop Bug). This happens quite often actually after the 1.02 patch. Every game a few times. Unfortunately, ruins a lot of plays and death is often the penalty, as I mentioned yersterday. I would really really appreciate if you could implement an internal cooldown by the next two patches or so or something else to prevent it to happen.

I will try to find a pattern to reproduce it and I will let you know if I will figure it out. But finding the pattern of reproducing it might actually be not necessary in this case because I am almost certain (like 98% certain) it can be fixed by just implementing an internal cooldown of like 0.1s.

❤️

[chilly parrot]

yeah maybe making it easier to enter has made it much easier to re-enter too :/

[vapid zinc]

maiby put a delay before u can re-enter

idk just an idea

[spice chasm]

thoughts on giving joule her iframe back now that wukong has infinite of them for free @chilly parrot ?

[vapid zinc]

yeah but put a 0,2s delay on it

👍

[frank sapphire]

what if we just add more space in between all the islands i feel that wound be good

[vapid zinc]

stop ragebaiting

[frank sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-highkitten-mdmacat-cat-happykitty-gif-17268330459933875989

[vapid zinc]

@chilly parrot why did my game update xd

whats the patch about

a gg

just read it

sry for ping

[toxic helm]

Not too long please, because there is tech where you can charge your RMB, enter the portal and shoot it immediately and the impulse of the RMB shoots you right back into the portal, reducing the chance of enemies reacting to your appearance and therefore not taking any damage. If the internal cooldown is too long, it might destroy this tech, or at least nerf it heavily which doesn't deserves it because it isn't particularly strong, just a method how to use his ult for your advantage (Ults are supposed to give you an advantage). So I think like 0.1s or maybe 0.15s might be the sweet spot.

[lethal vault]

That's pretty neat

[vapid zinc]

thats was

not

saros related

lol

[toxic helm]

Ohhh yea I see, I just read it and the number suggestion was contextually about right so I thought you were talking about Saros instead of Joule, mb. But the point still holds, not too long please if this would fix it.

[vapid zinc]

holy fuck bhop is buggued

i stg

i bhop 3 times

i cant bhop for 100 hours

okay bro

from high movility to a shrike can outchase you

this feels so bad

at least give him 2 dashes or smth if u are just gonna straight up gut his movility

holy chungus

im playing brall what can do

100x times more movility 100x more times damage 100x more times movility

and a parry that actualy works lol

[vapid zinc]

is it just fcking buggued for me

i stg

[sterile bone]

Gotta use trees bro. Dash spam :)
This doesn't make up for it completely but not really "low mobility" 🤷‍♂️

[vapid zinc]

it doesnt work

btw

trees dont work

if u do the bhop on ground then hop on a tree

[sterile bone]

Wait what

[vapid zinc]

it doesnt reset

[sterile bone]

No dash reset? Cus that's what I was referring to

[vapid zinc]

a yeah

i thought u meant bhop

but like thats situational af

[sterile bone]

Ut is so like his mobility is a lot lower but can't really call it slow mobility.

I feel like he might be forced to go tree prison now jist due to that bug. I do bet it's ass

[vapid zinc]

im not going tree prison

but i swear

by my entire life

his bhop is buggued

in someway

i dont know how to explain it

but it just sometimes doesnt reset

at all

like u can wait as much as you want

without moving or doing anything

and it just doesnt reset

[sterile bone]

There's also a bug where it just doesn't get the detrimental results. Just gotta pray tou get that cus afaik it's completely random

[vapid zinc]

yeah

either u have it forever

or u dont have it

its dogshit

i hope they hotfix this

and its always buggued for me btw

no matter what i do

beetween games

practise

it doesnt matter

[sterile bone]

I doubt they will. He was auch a problem bwfore he needs to be weak for some time now. I hope it's fixed next patch at least

[vapid zinc]

yeah weak

not buggued

holy fuck

i think they dont understand

or at least let me fcking bhop cause i cant anymore

its just always buggued for me now

[sterile bone]

It feels like his range isn't there, his dmg isn't there, his survivability isn't there, and his mobility isn't there.

I said he was still strong before but yea i don't think he is anymore.

[vapid zinc]

hes D tier

by far

this is a good ragebait from the devs bro

[hoary talon]

I thought you were reformed reval

[vapid zinc]

reformed until they gave the saros treatment to my hunter

[hoary talon]

wdym your hunter

I have not seen you play wukong once

and you are ragebaiting saying he is D tier

[vapid zinc]

i didnt play scrims in a while

[vapid zinc]

sure

can you add a fcking podrazing counter pls

so i can see if its buggued on wukong

ty

[hoary talon]

1st and 2nd place in scrims today played wukong all games

[vapid zinc]

yeah well its good in comp still

in ranked is dogshit

and in case you dont get the buggued

cause its like perma buggued fir ne

i got into a game

bhop 6 times

i cant bhop anymore

im done with this game im uninstalling it untill they fix this shit

if they do fix it

sry for beign rude above i love the game dont get me wrong

but having bugs like this shouldnt be allowed

if u want to go big this type of things cant really happen

players get tilted really easily

like me

[cosmic shell]

@chilly parrot really hate to be @'ing you directly, but this has been happening and been reported frequently for a pretty long time now

There is a lot of terrain that will straight up eat Void's swap currently

I legitimately lost that game because I really needed that swap right then and there

[chilly parrot]

I really don't understand why your swap is off cooldown right after you used it here

is there some kind of a cut in the media? It looks like you go from trying to swap over terrain to having void bomb and ult down, and your shift isn't on CD anymore

oh okay I see

I don't really think it's supposed to work way up there in the mountains tbh, it's too high to realistically be playable space

[cosmic shell]

Two clips yeah

But the thing is the projectile hits terrain and its height should dictate where you can TP

If anything it should swap you to the wall

[sick vector]

Jays diagram: First clip you placed it too deep, if you place the centre on the edge of the wall then it should still tp you up to the wall edge height. Second clip idk how you can tp right in that situation, the angle makes it hard to find the right place to hit IF there is actually a right place to hit there. On the right side of that montain you can jump tp up obviously, not an option for you in that situation unfortunately

I will say there are times you follow this principle and tp doesn't work for no reason. Other voids have shared a lot of clips of scuffed shit

[lethal vault]

There are cases where it's just the Orb hitting a corner and failing that would normally be fine, maybe that can also happen on OOB corners

[sick vector]

Maybe in first clip jump before tping may of given enough height to tp you up idk

[cosmic shell]

Yeah sorry, I don't need a fucking out of game graph

Ability is wonky

There's no reason it should just eat it without doing anything

[chilly parrot]

The simple explanation is you can have a grace period where the projectile doesn't hit terrain (the start of the arc), which is nice, because you don't get randomly stuffed by walls. But, if it does that, as pointed out, it can end up fully inside a wall with really big terrain like this, so you can't be tp'd

Or, you can have no grace period and just get stuffed by every tiny wall or object you cast it by

Of course, if it ends up in terrain, we try to find a reasonable location and put you there, but if it's really deep in terrain, how do we pick? Closest distance? Just go straight up really high? If we go straight up, it's super exploitable (we tried that). If we go closest location, it spits you out super unpredictably. So we have this kind of in the middle version that works in the majority of cases, but yes, if you try to throw the TP into an enormous piece of terrain, it will fail

[grizzled mulch]

Why not have a check? Like if the orb hits terrain that is too big, it just places void where the TP ball hit the terrain no? That way, height isnt abused, and the void player can be more consistent in his tp?

Seems like the most logical thing to do

instead of letting nothing happen...

[round night]

Are you sure this is intended? The diminishing returns/LMB impulse penalty never resets. You can stay on the ground not pressing any buttons for 5 minutes and the penalty is still not gone

[round night]

You can see it in this clip. First time the diminishing returns are working as intended reducing each consecutive LMB impulse. After that I'm walking for 10s and even standing completely still for another 10s. On the second attempt the diminishing returns are still active even though they should've long reset.

[round night]

My guess is it applies the new impulse decay value (25%) on each cast but when resetting uses the old value (15%). So you never go fully back to 100%

As this gets worse the more stacks of diminishing returns you accumulate

[vapid zinc]

if in intended its just dumb

but happens bro what can i even expect

time to uninstall ig

i tanked enough bullshit alredy

zeph can bhop for 1 hour straight

but wukong cant bhop for 1 hour straight

XD

like holy chungus balance

at least give him 2 dashes or smth

[round night]

Dude. I agree that the deminishing returns not resetting properly is annoying. But you're literally playing the most broken hunter in the game and non stop complain xD

[cosmic yew]

Dont forget reval is 15 😄

He gets a bit angry sometimes

@vapid zinc u got a dev actually responding bro chill a bit and be respectful, if theres a problem explain the problem and why u think its a problem ur just being hostile now

i did the same thing in the past so im not gonna be hypocritical but

yea

[vapid zinc]

its cancer to play

[vapid zinc]

how tf can i not be hostile

they do 1 good thing, but that 1 good thing fucks 100 other things

everytime

its been so many times alredy

im starting to get tilted

like playing the hunter feels so fcking bad in ranked

in scrims feels perfect

[vapid zinc]

op until they nerfed, CDR his movility, te range and idk what else atp

[cosmic yew]

playing ranked in general feels bad reval

[round night]

That's just ranked. Not the hunter

[cosmic yew]

if you had 2 teammates and werent soloqueing you wouldnt be this frustrated

[vapid zinc]

i was having fun before 1.02

for first time in a long time

[round night]

He's still the strongest hunter by far.

[cosmic yew]

Dont ragebait bro

[round night]

I play him a lot too. I barely feel any difference to 1.0

[vapid zinc]

yeah maiby u dont have the bhop bug perma

cause that shit is rng af

and seems like im bad at rng

[cosmic yew]

So report the bug and play something else in the meantime if u hate it this much

[vapid zinc]

no cause i have to play him in scrims

but i have to practise in someway

[round night]

This is no ragebait. In ranked he's the strongest hunter by far. No other hunter is this nimble. can escape any situation with ease and literally joink kills from a safe distance with 2 walls in between you and the enemy

[vapid zinc]

outchased by a shrike btw

[round night]

THIS is ragebait

Show clip or didn't happen

[vapid zinc]

k

waiting 16 seconds btw

and my bhop didnt work

omw to cliping it

after game ends

chat buggued aswell btw

still buggued*

at least idk bro

put a fcking timer

so i know when i can bhop again

so i dont have to fcking count every time i hit a lmb

nah dont even bother

im not touching this game anymore

only scriming

[sterile bone]

Skill issue, didn't get lucky enough for it to be infinite.

[vapid zinc]

we love rng based mechanics!

pls put more of them in the game!

they are so good!

specially when they can make u insta win!

and they said its an intended interaction im p sure

like bruh

i quit triying alredy

https://medal.tv/games/supervive/clips/kWSDkKXjk85YPPNeX?invite=cr-MSxNajcsMzExNTkwMDM5

12 seconds without hitting a single lmb

and bhop didnt reset

14 seconds actually

[round night]

You were just slowed

Nothing to do with bhop

[vapid zinc]

wdym slowed bro

like i was bhoping

and it wasnt bhoping

this has to be ragebait

nice ragebait bro

keep it up

[round night]

Bhop just adds a small boost to your current movement. If you're slowed like that bhob does absolutely nothing

That's 100% normal

And why I always hated facing Celeste as Jin

[vapid zinc]

okay come practise

[round night]

Bro not again. I'm at work

[vapid zinc]

skill issue

[round night]

Invite then

[vapid zinc]

it never happened to me so

never

before 1.02

[lethal vault]

Looks like you only did it once here and looks like it worked just a smaller impulse compared to before patches.

[vapid zinc]

way smaller

and its the first bhop

in 14 seconds

[round night]

yes because you were slowed

Invite me to practice

[vapid zinc]

yeah

[lethal vault]

gg rip work

On the bright side we're at least close to the right topic for the thread as it's wukong related

[vapid zinc]

its literally the same if u are slowed and if u are not

i count 7 seconds after my last lmb3

and no bhop

explain this

holy chungus music

https://medal.tv/games/supervive/clips/kWSSarj3YU5Uyjmkl?invite=cr-MSxrd3ksMzExNTkwMDM5

i can search for infinite of these clips in my cliping tool

[upbeat gyro]

are u arguing with sevensins rn about whether the bug exists or not?

[vapid zinc]

yes

[upbeat gyro]

u dont need to

#1397859784811872296 message

he's on ur side

if u just scroll up a bit he reported it too with his own clip

[vapid zinc]

yeah i told him to report it

cause i didnt know how to explain it

is it rng based or

it triggers cause of smth

[upbeat gyro]

im just confused on what the argument is when both of u guys are saying the same things 💀

[vapid zinc]

he says now if im slowed the bhop is slower

[sterile bone]

That's just normal discord arguments bro

[vapid zinc]

and im saying thats not true

that in that clip i had the bhop bug

[upbeat gyro]

who cares if its true or not.... it has nothing to do with the bug lol

[vapid zinc]

yes cause if its not true

it means its the bug

[upbeat gyro]

theres already clips of the bug....

[vapid zinc]

yeah ik

[upbeat gyro]

u dont need to re-prove it with more clips

[minor silo]

[sterile bone]

Literally just go in practice and send clip of u testing it in the water. Boom, proof

[vapid zinc]

we went to practise and tested it

its not true

[sterile bone]

Welp I'm late then

[vapid zinc]

@upbeat gyro do u feel like ult doesnt work as intended either?

i hitted many times meanwhile in ult

[lethal vault]

It can be true in the sense that if it means you start out with lower velocity you probably won't end up with an increase that hits the thresholds you're used to, like going above the glider's default max speed vs not quite reaching gliders max speed because you start too far away from it.

The clip kenneth linked means it's hard to know if you even have the right impulse it seems. I thought it was just the doing any kind of lmb reseting the CD reval mentioned a while ago, but that's at least predictable.

[upbeat gyro]

ulti always has worked for me

its iframe is very short

the bar lies to u

[round night]

I'm not too sure about it anymore honestly. It 100% exists in practice. But whenever I play Wukong in actual BR matches it seems to reset somewhat consistently

[vapid zinc]

i found this idk

tho there hes dashing alredy

so hes out of the iframe psure

[vapid zinc]

u are just lucky ig

[upbeat gyro]

he just ulti'd too early. its really short

[vapid zinc]

idk his ult iframes are kinda w/e im ngl

[lethal vault]

I'm wondering why the shrike passive didn't show on the Tetra for them, I was very confused for a second because I thought that was without shrike passive.

[vapid zinc]

lol

[chilly parrot]

It's more complex than you assume. What if the terrain is multiple different objects? We have to check it it's all contiguous or just one object. What if that check fails for an odd reason? (Say, the map designer used a prop that sticks deep in the ground so it calculated as a larger object than expected)

The more complex you make it, the more weird edge cases you may encounter

[chilly parrot]

Ah yeah this doesn't look right, I'll dig into it

[round night]

🫡

[chilly parrot]

This can be true and it can be bugged, they are not mutually exclusive

[uncut ravine]

koalifier u guys aware of the resonating idol builds going on

[sterile bone]

pleade keep hudson dash idol available in some form, cus it's fun and it finally gave him something. And if he could use wires with it it reqlly would not be insanly good.

[vapid zinc]

thanks god

my goat

[vapid zinc]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/940741747032612907/1303503140129210428/togif.gif

[sterile bone]

I shall beg for them to keep hudson idol dash to some extent.

[chilly parrot]

yes

[uncut ravine]

nice

[chilly parrot]

we're paying attention and thinking about potential changes. Nothing committed yet, gotta give it a few days to see how CDR changes shake out. Usually when stuff gets nerfed everyone just tries to keep running the same builds. We tried not to go nuclear with the CDR nerfs, so maybe it's still strong in general, maybe Idol is an outlier, etc.

Hard to be sure right away so we're thinking about potential changes but I wouldn't expect them to happen asap

[lethal vault]

There's also this, which is probably very similar to, or maybe the same issue as the Shiv Dagger TP failing as it seems to do with TP next to walls.

#1405261667822075944 message

[uncut ravine]

https://medal.tv/games/supervive/clips/kWT7BlLz5tn9ab5zl?invite=cr-MSxjSVksMzUzOTc0NTc4&v=9

this does seeem pretty fun

[lethal vault]

For Idol, Hudson seems to be the biggest abuser atm, and it seems to be due to the order that idol is applied. Since Idol applies first now due to the changes where it applies at the start of the dash instead of the end, the CDR is behaving additively with the short dash 50% CD refund.

So before with the other ordering and 50% refund from idol you could get a total of an effective 75% reduction.
Now you get an effective total of 30% + 50% for a total of 80% reduction.

So because of the ordering change it's actually more effective at reducing his CD even with a lower number.

[chilly parrot]

I think the shiv dagger one might be more fixable. There will always be edge cases, but I think we could be a little more forgiving and let the TP put you a little "off" where you'd expect, but at least work when it's in a corner

[lethal vault]

The other short dasher's, Celeste & Ghost seem to set the short dash CD, so the idol CDR that happens first seems to get overwritten rather than further reduced like hudsons.

Previously the Idol CD would apply after it's set for them, so it was also effectively a multiplicative reduction

[sterile bone]

Just don't let him use wires with idol when he's stacking dash. It's the biggest problem.
Cus if he couldn't use wires he loses a lot of value. And the build is simply just fun so I'm begging something with it is kept.
I will talk about this forever until ik smth like it will still stay ._.

[minor silo]

I think they should just straight up disable idol from the game

Felix also benefits from idol on 3 abilities

[cosmic yew]

Or just up the CDR to 4% per stack and make it not reduce dashes again

[minor silo]

So yeah shit ton of idol abusers

[cosmic yew]

kinda simple

im surprised nobody has complained about idol till now

ive said since 1.0 release its by far the strongest relic

[minor silo]

It was bugged till now

[cosmic yew]

yea but thats what im saying

put it back to the bugged version

and make it official

[minor silo]

Then it's back to being worthless

No one built its bugged version

[cosmic yew]

no, its not

then its back to being built on characters with ability spam potential

like ghost, myth etc

[minor silo]

Why would build that when time staff gives the same amount of cdr on more than one ability

And if they do what you suggest they essentially remove the 2* upgrade

[final ravine]

Ngl idol should probably be removed if not hard nerfed

[minor silo]

tl;dr disable idol and disable vive infuser once we are at it till properly balanced

[lucid dew]

I’m interested on koalifers opinion on the longevity of supervive. How can this game get its numbers up. Feels like supervive should do watch overwatch2 should’ve done on launch: create new exciting things for players that they have always wanted. New game modes, new exciting developments. Seems without more this game isn’t gonna survive

[silk rover]

i mean NA was complaining about it since release

just never caught on in EU the same way it did in NA

NA clearly just ahead of EU gg

[radiant saddle]

Maybe we should ban idol in scrims?

😏

[silk rover]

[minor silo]

Wasn't the only actual feature of ow2 changing the game from 6v6 to 5v5?

[silk rover]

nah there was like a full visual rework

a few new maps

3 new heroes

1 new gamemode

but what OW2 did was set the framework to evolve off

OW2 on release was a mess

but after a year or so it became a solid game

[radiant saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/deep-magic-lion-witch-narnia-dont-recite-gif-14879671

^ chipsa

[silk rover]

very different to OW1 but it had its own identiy that was built off the framework that was built

yea luke i swear

everytime someone talks about OW here

its almost always so wrong on so many levels

[radiant saddle]

Same with League, Dota, Batlerite, BLC, and Supervive

[silk rover]

dont forget

V Rising

the goat game

[radiant saddle]

Castle building sim single player game

[silk rover]

PvP masterpiece

[radiant saddle]

TBH is really good at that

[silk rover]

i mean whatever u wanna say abouy SLS

the combat systems they have in their games

are so incredible

[radiant saddle]

They are really good at combat systems + vfx/sfx polish

[cosmic yew]

V rising is top10 games ever but it has no longevity

[radiant saddle]

Insanely good

[silk rover]

i mean it wasnt made to be a live service game

it isnt a live service game infact

[cosmic yew]

yea i dont mind

[radiant saddle]

I really wish supervive had a cohesive combat language like any of SLS' games

It would feel so much better

[cosmic yew]

but whenever they have an update its the best game ever for a few weeks

[minor silo]

So what you are saying is dump this shit game and come back in 1 year to check

[radiant saddle]

Well, no

If you like it, play it and have fun

[silk rover]

im not saying that

[radiant saddle]

If you do not, don't play it because you will make yourself angry

And games are supposed to be fun

[cosmic yew]

Is this about supervive?

what game is this about

[silk rover]

i think there are a lot of similarites between OW1 - OW2 and Project loki - Supervive

[radiant saddle]

More general advice, but you could take it as specific to supervive

Either way

SLS' combat language design skills are immaculate and probably the best in the industry in this space

[silk rover]

oh no doubt

in this specific genre SLS are 5 levels ahead of everyone else

[minor silo]

Wtf is sls

[radiant saddle]

stunlock studios