#Are some hunters ruining the game?

94 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

alpine siren
#

I like the game, I really really do. But then some hunters being in the game have just been making me progressively have less fun over time.

It feels like I'm just not allowed to enjoy the game if I'm not playing a hunter with infinite tools at thwir disposal, insanly obnoxious mobility, or numbers that are way higher than most othwr hunters.

I'll complain about it, and it gets pushed to the side, sure I'm just some random guy so that's fair.
But then many many other people will co.plain about the same hunters and it still feels like it's just being pushed to the side.

So, are some hunters ruining the game for you guys?

rotund lagoon
#

At my Silver / Gold level, I really hate playing against Hudson or Jin.

Hudson have a stupid range and is really not fun playing against if your character don't have high mobility

Jin is just annoying destroying instantly my Eva Orbs with a Q and me with it

dull breach
#

Oath

fading tendon
#

I feel vive kinda just has issues with its characters.
everyone is very buggy and the power budgets are all over the place.
Oath excelling at nearly everything.
Brall and Jin are so far ahead of the rest in terms of mobility without almost any trade offs
**Balance changes are weird. ** sometimes
Hudsons every ability is bugged. And hudson in general lacking every tool he should have as a controller and is stat checky because of that.
Other protectors do Ellunas job better AND they do something extra on top.
Ghost seems to be op currently because he is just consistent. (also the random omni on the passive? why not bonus ms for the RUN and GUN playstyle?)
Antiheal gutting character kits and interactions.

Giving devs some slack cus its open beta BUT I do feel like they should focus more on the characters and their fantasies and balance.
Since the team is apparently very experienced (atleast thats the common narative) some changes feel like they lack foresight or are out of touch.

#

Like recent eva buff 50% more healing????
Why?
That is the only thing she ISNT lacking.
rest of the changes are ok but that spesific change has me questioning why exactly is that change even being made?

wind shell
#

Oath and bishop.
I think it's pretty self explanatory

vast plinth
#

i agree its oath and bishop really other characters are outplayable

royal escarp
#

Bishop is more fine because its just strictly op in terms of a lot of numbers and ofc right click max. But oath is literally so op it defines the whole game at high level which is crazy we are getting a jin nerf before oath

#

You cant even make that shit up if you tried

dull breach
#

Oath will always find a way to dodge nerfs

fading tendon
#

He simply parries them

wind shell
fading tendon
#

I do feel for bishop its more of a numbers issue then her design really being too atrocious
She has it all but SHOULD be only good at one thing at a time depending on build

#

Tho her having it all is volatile in itself

#

Im just patiently waiting on a hudson rework

royal escarp
#

Yeah ofc its one of the most broken champs in the game, maybe even 2nd to oath. But she is not to the point where at high level if you dont have, its not playable. Oath is literally breaking the barrier where if you dont have him, its not playable

#

But yes obviously bishop should get nerfs, I dont think anyone would say otherwise

#

Just not game breaking to the extent where the whole game revolves around oath. Literally all champs you pick, and how you choose to pick against your enemies always has oath as a must

fading tendon
#

He just has so many tools. You could break him into 3 characters and they would all be over loaded

lavish tiger
#

Yup Oath has no identity - oath mains don't care either since they are playing 3 characters simultaneously right now and can choose whether they want to shapeshift into either fastest character in the game - highest damage dealer of the lobby or pocket shielder protector and healer of the game or all 3 at the same time

It took a month+ for the disgusting oath bug to finally be fixed, which even respected players were abusing and absolutely destroying lobbies with.
That in combination with the still allowed B-Hopping that more and more oath mains in top elo are milking to the full extent, makes him uncatchable, unkillable and reduces counterplay by 90% for any team that has no oath.

#

The only reason that its somewhat still playable is that people got so bored of oath that you see him a bit less (sometimes), since he's just that oppressive that even the ppl who play him want some variation and actually not just stomp every lobby

potent ridge
#

As a bishop player, I can certainly say that she needs to be nerfed in terms of damage, especially on the LMB. One thing TC could do is reverting the buff to empowered LMB.

Other than that, RMB max could use a slight rework (the area makes this so stupid istg i hate every rmb maxxer on this planet).

Ult feels fine because you have to play around vision to hit it since the startup time was nerfed and turn rate is damn low.

One comment that will maybe sound like "skill issue" is : Bishop is very easy to use against people that don't know her / how to counter her. It makes her kinda noobstompy, and can add to this "broken" feeling. She's still S tier and very very strong at the moment.

lavish tiger
#

I ditched bishop sadly cause she lacked Identity, just like oath.
I loved playing her and she was my main before Crysta. Played competitive with her etc.
I always prefered playing her as a tank initiator (literally her role) , max Q, make a good setup for a fight whilst being tanky enough to weave in and out a fight. As an initatior should.

Sadly she got tailored to being a long range poke machine that relies on onetrick pony one shot combos rather than setting up good teamfights

fading tendon
#

I feel there is a flaw in how the Hunters are treated in this game.
Hard to put it into words what I mean exactly by this. And I may be biased since I main hudson.

Some characters just get so much more love then others and I feel problem points are either removed or ignored and rarely are there compromises

#

Hudson for example cant use glider after ult because it literally deletes the projectile mid air. This has been there since the playtest this current ult was implemented

#

His dash didnt reset for months

lavish tiger
# fading tendon I feel there is a flaw in how the Hunters are treated in this game. Hard to put ...

My own personal opinion and i know ppl disagree with this, I just feel like hunters should have more identity and playstyle attached.
Eva is a case for example, I like that she was tailored towards heal 'only' and less agency for playing solo 1v1. The reason why she feels bad is because other hunters are not tailored with this idea in mind.
*E.g. Elluna/Zeph should not deal this much damage. Oath should be good at shielding, thats it. Bishop should be able to setup nice teamfights as initiator. *

fading tendon
#

Everything is bugged and his balance history is atrocious

lavish tiger
fading tendon
#

Also if you hit it it cancells it rocketW

#

You cannot use glider after ulting at any point or the debuff gets removed too

#

Idk how its coded that way

lavish tiger
split abyss
#

Agreed. For some reason right now the strongest hunters are allowed to stay the strongest, and buffs to weaker hunters are either misplaced or extremely cautious.

fading tendon
#

Not to mention extremely buggy

#

Some characters just have SO many more tools then others

#

Like they would be from different games

fading tendon
#

Everyone should FEEL consistent

#

Hudson literally only does anything if enemies mess up first. And when they do he just wins. It feels awful for both sides

#

Oath has so much consistensy he looses only if he messes up

#

He has so many tools

#

Brall kinda similar

#

Everyone should have the tools to execute their Own gameplan + maybe 1 more thing to round them out. They should have distinct weaknesses to exploit and also strenghts

lavish tiger
#

Yeah thats the issue a bit for me, I'm not a big fan of BR games, supervive being the exception.
Since this is some sort of new concept, it feels a bit to me that BR+Moba+Hero Shooter kinda has the issue that it just cancels eachother out xD

Like.. how can u make roles and hunters that for example are "Support/Healers" but they still can 1v1 someone playing "Fighter"?
I get why every hunter should be able to 1v1, but I feel like the conceptually idea behind this particular genre falls appart that way

lavish tiger
#

it feels to me like it could be an all out solo 1v1v1v1 etc

fading tendon
#

The team play part comes in the covering for the other players weakness/ downtime

lavish tiger
#

fair point and i can see it, definitely not something that is in the current game though, but i can see how with your description it could make sense

fading tendon
#

Like comparing to character based BR game like Apex Legends. I KNOW maybe not the best comparison but the semi game design princibles translate somewhat

#

They have abilities and passives that make characters feel distinct. The game does have the thing where everyone has access to guns so they are on semi equal ground in fights

#

But the abilities define the preffered playstyle and you generally want your team to have a support, tank , scout/dps

#

Missing one of these can hurt but isnt the end of the world

#

Enemy team can exploit the lack of flexibility

#

I feel vives characters have a chance to be very unique

#

But they lack tools to be generally viable while also staying unique

#

Elluna for example is desinged around vives revive mechanics. But she hard focuses on it so much that other more generalists like zeph tend to be just way better. Since they do her job worse but offer more then JUST rez utility

lavish tiger
fading tendon
#

I feel the damage for support should be there but lower then proper dps OR have a gimick like stacking/back loaded damage

#

There is a saying that tanks are just fat dps. And supports are just dps with team utility

lavish tiger
#

hmm yeah exactly,thats what I feel as well.. Honestly i think for this whole 1v1 thing to be viable they need to do a full balance pass on all hunters, figure out their identity and shake up the entire game

fading tendon
#

If you look at a way more team oriented games like Overwatch and marvel rivals. The supports are kinda just dps who have utility. And tanks are just really fat dps

lavish tiger
fading tendon
lavish tiger
#

I feel like for example in overwatch though, there's a bigger guarantee of winning a 1v1 against a support though.
Like Tracer vs Mercy for example, should be equivalent to like Shiv vs Elluna, but it isnt, Tracer vs Mercy is like almost guaranteed win for tracer, shiv vs elluna, its more in the air, probably shiv but its not as guaranteed imo

fading tendon
#

Like Ana from Ow is notoriously scary to dive. Because she puts you to sleep and throws a nade into your mouth if you mess up the dive

#

Mantis in Marvel rivals puts you to sleep in an aoe and two taps you with her dmg boost

#

Rocket racoon in marvel rivals has the top 3 highest dps gun in the game while having insane mobility

#

If a tank dives him wrong he rips them to pieces

#

But its balanced out by horrible damage fall off

#

Mantis has lower healing for being more damage heavy. Ana has to actually land the long cd abilities and her primary is single target and dot in nature

#

Supports ARE dps with limitstions but they have utility

#

Comparing to league. NAMI DMG

#

Sona shotguns you late.
Karma nukes you early

#

BUT they have conditions to their damage and trade offs. Sona has to choose between a slow, dmg burst or enemy dmg nerf
Karma has to choose between her damage, shield or self heal.
Nami has more movement speed and cc utility then heals, and her damage and heals depend on positioning and timing

lavish tiger
#

Interesting, yeah very good points and this does point out the lack of such tradeoffs and limitations in supervive atm

fading tendon
#

I there are just issues with the character kits in vive.

#

Eva is a good design but her numbers are too focused on healing.
Elluna has issues with her ult. She could honestly go more into the agile battle support fantasy. Less about healing but more team utility through movement speed and play making.

#

I feel not that many characters need Too many changes. Some need better trade offs/weaknessess/downtime others need a few extra tricks up their sleeves

#

Oath needs shield to have downtime/trade offs.

Brall needs more risk to him. Less hp maybe better battle sustain, insentive to stay in fights instead of running away and trying again 5 seconds later

Void could use a more interesting passive

As a few examples. Cant really talk for every character since Im not 100% caught up on everyone

#

Hudson feels like he needs 1 more tool and power reshuffle to his kit. So he can function reliably. Nerf range add downtime, make being in his effective range dangerous.

A decent low range knockback ability during rmb hold, replacing Shift like Oath shield. Would Imo make him way more threatening since now he can controll space, and it would combo with his wires and rest of the kit very intuitively

#

Enemies have something to play around and so does hudson. And now he is actually semi reliable and can do something on his own.

raw venture
fading tendon
#

Would also be thematic since he has that "battle spirit" thing going on

raw venture
#

True. He should be the go in and keep fighting hunter, where jin is the go in and get out hunter.

fading tendon
#

Discussed with a brall player that it could be a hp regen per enemy around you. BUT reduce his base hp. This way his effective hp in fights is more then before but if he doesnt go in and commit he has less hp

#

Easier to burst when he fucks up, cant run away as much. You could also tie his mana regen to it. So in fights he doesnt really run out but running away he does run oom

#

So he would REALLY want to commit by design

#

I think I kinda yapped all over this discussion I am sorryrocketW

alpine siren
fading tendon
#

Hudson mains know hudson_gooby

#

Very familiar with it