Smurfing

[muted turtle]

I feel like smurfing has been on a rise recently and it’s incredibly frustrating, almost every player I know that is legend has been making Smurf’s and primarily playing on smurfs WAY more than last season

Smurfing completely removed queue restrictions allowing groups of legend players to queue together (the entire thing the system is designed to stop)

It leads to situations where if you’re trying to climb on a main account solo or otherwise you’re running into legend 3 stacks on different accounts and you feel at a disadvantage because you’re playing around queue restrictions solo queuing or duo queuing while other players are allowed to just bypass all restrictions

[woven dove]

they will get bored after their 4th acc, just a game of patience

[muted turtle]

It’s still frankly sad

Like we have this new ranked system that has pretty well thought out restrictions when it comes to legend plus at least

And people are just bypassing it and ruining the whole point

Idk what the solution could be that’s why this is a discussion post

I just wanted to share my grievance with it

[woven dove]

yea sorry, just wanted to say something to let you know i agree but not much we can do, they find it fun and it is what it is. if they 3 stack normals they would be slaughtering exclusively new players and not a mix of new players + solo vets 🤷‍♂️

[woeful depot]

probably could actually

Look for different accounts from the same IP

its not a perfect way but

[wide forge]

Some people do smurf way too much tbh. There isn't much that can really be done about it. Like look at marvel rivals, smurfing is a pretty big problem in that game as well. It will honestly always be a problem.

I'll play on smurfs when playing hunter I'm not good at. Not really to que with friends. But smurfing to simply que with friends isn't too bad imo.

I personally haven't seen many 3 stack smurf accounts running lobbies, yet at least.

[woeful depot]

SHHH

Don’t give them ideas

[wide forge]

Tbh I do feel like smurfing is more a community thing to deal with simply cus it is kinda impossible for the devs to do anything about it.
Idk if it'd even clear what I mean by that.

[wide forge]

They wouldn't, right?

[muted turtle]

You’re good lmao I’m just kinda heated on the issue

I’ve been very passionately against smurfing for a while now but only recently has it become an actual problem instead of a pet peeve

And on the same note the boosting (a better player playing on a lower ranked account to get another player to a higher rank) has been very rampant recently however requiring people to solo queue from gm to legend will most likely solve this problem when people actually start grinding after hitting legend instead of swapping to Smurf accounts and stomping lobbies

[muted turtle]

I know most players Smurf account names just from knowing them and playing with them so I can spot them pretty quickly I’ve seen a few really annoying 3 stacks but it’s mostly duos either boosting someone or just 2 legend players making Smurf accounts to play together

[wide forge]

Are people actually boosting? I wouldn't really expect it much in sv rn, but ig I could see it happening.

[muted turtle]

Yep it happens a lot I saw 2 separate people doing it today

I mean I’ve done it before too to be fair

So I have been part of the problem before

[woven dove]

I think naturally this will lead to incentivizing grinding main acc more with decay system or x amount of wins while legend or something.

I think its ok as long as it's infrequent, if smurfing gets to the point new players are never getting w supervive then it's really bad

Yea the way I see it is just people sort of taking turns doing it because others are doing it, they will get bored and it'll slow down then people play mains and more people play mains

[muted turtle]

I’m very inexperienced with smurfing (the competitive games I come from have little to no smurfing) so I’m not very informed on the topic but it is annoying and it makes me lose respect for a lot of really talented players

[woven dove]

It's especially bad this season because premade > hit restriction > play restricted > lose to others not at restriction.

My toxic way to solve this is make end of season reward for the rank you end at then people can't just hit legend by premade to gm 0rp and get legend reward.

someone said it would be cool if the legend glider had your rank # on it which would be possible with that change.

[muted turtle]

I would love the legend glider having a rank number

[woeful depot]

Not sure how realistic that would be

But it is neat

[woven dove]

I think people who smurf/premade would also be against these changes for obvious reasons and people generally don't get involved in discussion threads they feel outnumbered.. so its a weird situation with these discussion posts sometimes

[muted turtle]

its definitely a hard issue to talk about

obviously people who do smurf aren't going to chime in

so you only ever get people that are against it creating a sort of echo chamber

[woeful depot]

actually I suppose if you just earn the glider but don’t keep it you have a default version of the glider

I guess the only thing would then be it potentially stifling the appearance of the glider

I think at the very least, you should have the name have a nice rank number

[last phoenix]

especially with ranked restrictions people are gonna make new accounts to play with friends

[dusty zenith]

Are we coping saying its a well thought out system when players stop playing as soon as they hit legend to 3 stack with their friends??? The cope is real in this one because to me, that sounds like a very shit system when people rather go onto smurfs than keep playing on their main

[muted turtle]

I love needing to solo q but only in gm plus

I feel it solves so many issues

is it perfect? no

but its a good start

I don't think you deserve to be legend if you can't stay in it solo

but thats not the discussion I want out of this thread

I really just want this to be a place where people can actually discuss smurfing because I feel like its kind of stigmatized and rarely talked about in the community

[dusty zenith]

If a system encourages smurfing over playing on the main account then its a bad system, its just that plain and simple

You can hard cope and say x or y is good but the fact is that its really bad

Having any kind of restriction before you have any kind of mm is just completely dumb and makes 0 sense

You cant have a team game where you encourage people to play at low level with their friends and then they have to stop playing with their friends

Because then it just simply isnt a team game, currently the game is to play for yourself and run over new players

And that just simply is a shit system and there is really no good point against it

The point system even encourages you to chase new players until they are fully dead, this current system and mm is just good for high level and really bad for low level players

[feral sigil]

i watch legend players play, they get 2 bronze teammates after long queue.

i watch legend players go on smurf acc, they get 2 bronze teammates, same lobby of players but faster queue.

not being able to play with friends also sucks for ppl who get a rank and then cant queue.

[umbral vessel]

The thing is those 2 things are inseparable, the forced solo queue forces the smurfs hence it's so bad this arc, Overwatch, HotS, Fortnite, and I guess technically even Warzone all discovered this the hard way, people just wanna play with their friends in the best lobby quality available and currently exact rank doesn't make a difference while playing unranked is the 'real' smurfing

[wide forge]

It's bettwr than tc just going, "it's fine if this is making the game unfun for some of you. Some people have more fun that way so we're gonna still allow it."

Your point is pretty stupid and would only benefit people like you or specific people in the community.
Smurfing is gonna happen regardless, but just flat out allowing 3 stacks past gm would make shit worse, so much worse.

[umbral vessel]

would it not be better to pursue the method that encourages more high MMR players to actually play at their rank and thus put them in their own lobbies? as opposed to what we're seeing play out RN that we can see with our own eyes is worse than last arc?

[thin sentinel]

They need to have decay and matchmaking at least at peak hours needs to be better

[dusty zenith]

@wide forge thats not what i said but ok

Its infact crazy how I have said fix mm and you disagree with the fact that legend should not be in bronze lobbies. Its crazy to me how you think this mm system is better than having legends queue in gm+ (maybe masters) lobbies rather than with completely new players and running over them

I think what you think is good is just completely out of touch and wouldnt benefit any game, hence why no big game ever had a ranked queue without skill based matchmaking

And I really dont think skill based matchmaking only benefits me or other legend players, I do think skill based matchmaking benefits everyone. But since you disagree and think skill based matchmaking is stupid can you please explain why @wide forge

[olive oasis]

add vuli to dev team prob solved

[muted turtle]

^ decay would probably help a lot

[latent matrix]

People wouldn't want to Smurf (as much as they are now) if the game had balanced lobbies. Smurfing is largely not an issue once they hit gold elo (not that hard) and it just throws them in the high elo lobbies anyways. The problem is queueing at legend and getting silver and bronze teammates. This was an issue before the reset and large majority of high elo would queue stacked to avoid it.

The game is simply not fun when you're playing revive simulator with defeated teammates. This issue is now rearing it's head because all the people who majority stacked / never solo'd now are experiencing what has been the game state for months.

I personally think it will get better when the full release drops and there is actual elo not just a loose rating that essentially is pointless until Masters rank.

[woven dove]

theres like 6 dicussions going on about matchmaking smurfing and premades. we just need to give it time. this isnt something that needs changes yet imo. the bronze and silver new players on our team look to be having fun and will improve in this environment. last split the bronze and silvers got rolled by 4 stacks and went to duos or quit.

[woven dove]

after more games today i have changed my mind, frick these smurfs. force them to play 100 normals before they can enter ranked maybe that will fix it 😂

[pine berry]

I made solo q smurf just to not get que skipped all the time, still same lobby after 3rd game on acc, same bronze team mates just like zzkknn said. Once match making is better I see smurfing becoming less of a issue, but like matchmaking omega bad so

I also see part of players wanting to play with their friends to, which is like a fair argument but its hard to balance that imo

[muted turtle]

Sounds like you had the same experience I did yesterday LMAO

[muted turtle]

I don’t have much issue with making a Smurf to solo q

Where my issue comes is when people make smurfs to avoid restrictions and still trio and duo in ranked

Like I understand people want to play with their friends

But these same people are the people that advocated so hard for solo restrictions

Like one person I know was a big advocate for solo q only in gm + made a Smurf the day he hit legend and started playing on the Smurf in 3 stacks

[pine berry]

alot of people say one thing and do another, theres alot of people i know of that want solo q only but actively que with other people so like

[olive oasis]

If u judge off that its gonna be very inaccurate when considering the games state and teh fact of sheep mentality. PPl copy eachother buildwise, metawise, how playing the game, etc etc. Even though it can be suboptimal for the games future just cos it doesnt happen doesnt mean its not the answer. And i said before that alot of people even if they do like to group will eventually want to either relax, do something else or play by themselves. And that by themselves part is gonna make up ur biggest portion of audience eventually cos thats the kinda group that can basically queue 24/7 without interruption. No need to wait and find new teammates and if so maybe just one for solo duo squads. Theres various solid reasons for why solo duo is good and usually ppl are like yeah but its br or some stuff and its like ok to think in these ways but end of day what u think is nice or good doesnt matter. That only works if u consider the reality at the same time. U can easily tell with this game nomather how good it becomes and or if it changes in many ways, there will be certain issues like it being hard to spectate the game. And if devs want the true answer to certain types of things its about understanding the playerbase, possible solutions+ how to implement them ( for example right away or gradually) and being unbiased/realistic because if ur not for too long ull lose track of things. On top of that evaluations and feedback will be among things starting to get skewed or inaccurate which is exactly what u see now. Shit ton of feedback good and bad and wether devs listen or not doesnt even matter, if they implement all the good and none of the bad it still doesnt matter. Thats maybe hard to realise but thats what the situation is. If u dont know where ur going u can get 10 tips on how to navigate the forest but ur still going to no destination. Compare that to wanting to go to a specific spot in the forest where u can find certain trees but it being difficult yet u receive tips on how to get there.

^ This shit all compounds and layers on top of one another making it worse overtime and harder to escape this cycle of forward and backward. Once again amplified if the initial understanding of the issues isnt or is only barely there.

People might not like solo duo squads and the game being focussed around it, i understand. But in many ppls heads what i suggest would then mean that their way of playing or enjoying the game falters which isnt true at all. This game could easily have 2 ranked game modes with a by time automated tournament system ingame allowing for flex queue to combine with that giving people who want teamwork 3/4 places to go and practice while allowing for solo/duoq squads to breed individual talent and keep a constant flow of players in the game. To me thats the current ideal view for the succes of teh game. Not that personally for myself i would like this the most, but this is how i see the game succeed regarding queuetimes, trios/squads etc, esports, tournaments, scrims etc.

Right now there is NO place for soloq

No fill or fill vs premade isnt an option

yeah u can make it work and rank but its not about you or your friend that can do it its about having a large playerbase that it makes sense to

[pine berry]

para phrase or im just gonna ignore this cause that is way to much to read bruh

[muted turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/not-reading-allat-gif-11216013967469576578

[olive oasis]

Np im already happy if a random dev reads it

[night egret]

I think you're missing the part where this game doesn't have a playerbase big enough to have a long term solution, for now what they need is a short term solution to build a playerbase and then make the transition to long term, I stopped playing this game because I had to wait 40 minutes to get a game just to get my 2-3 teammates run it down and make it revive simulator, now it's 5 mins and i get to play the game shitty or not i GET a game

[olive oasis]

Im not missing that but i just dont think they can craft an experience now that will leave u to be not frustrated with anything and at the same time doesnt hinder their progress towards the full release. And at the full release people will be there because of marketing. Thats what the game should be designed towards and preferably as soon as possible having a stable state ready for players to pre test it before it releasees. The more is catered to what various ppl ask for now which often times doesnt lead to the same endgoal the longer it will take before the full release package is ready. And if full release is shit u wont be playing much longer either. I dont disagree smurfing is an issue but its one that u canf ully get rid of only compensate add reasoning for x y z, so trying to combat this issue too ahrd right now compared to after the rest is more solid would be unwise is basically my take

Same with adding resurgance its all a nice try and stuff, but theres plenty of way more important shit to focus on first and them not doing that ant taking the route of big swings and catering to more nuanced requests etc, is what partially caused this cycle of forwad and backwards progress

[night egret]

ye u have a point i have not seen here and that's smurfing will exist whether you do something or not, people like to smurf on competitive online games it happens in EVERY game, and god forbids when this game goes popular there will be boosting too, trying to stop smurfing it's not a solution the only thing you can really do is punish it

[olive oasis]

Yeah i can agree

Is not for nothing every game struggles with these things

U could add id verifcation or w/e and ppl will find ways around it

lol

[night egret]

even new games like fragpunk have boosting

[night egret]

you see thats the thing

every step you add to the way the less people do it

you can't get rid of it but make it less possible

look at fresh accounts on lol after the vanguard and ban waves

it still happens but less

[olive oasis]

Im guilty sometimes also cos i do boost at times all may it be for free and in league but yea. Its something that can also easily grow when a company upsets enough ppl and boom indirectly now less ppl give a shit about boosting or smurfing and might do it also cos "fuck riotgames"

[olive oasis]

yeee

Many ppl i knew stopped buying botted accounts and started either hand leveling or buying hand leveled

[night egret]

i mean i did too thats why im saying this you just have to make it harder

it will never stop

[olive oasis]

But now its back to how it was rlly but probably still a drop in total

[night egret]

it's like trying to stop people from commiting crimes

you can't stop it

just make it harder

[night egret]

i mean a fresh account was 1 dollar when i played now its 5-8 if ur lucky and you get banned asap if youre not careful

[olive oasis]

I agree, but partially cos theyve tried from their pov alot of things for player retention etc, they are inclined to not punish things as much in order to keep players while keeping in mind people can be scared away from the game also

If i was a dev in that case currently not caring that much about pr of the game or w/e, i wouldnt care as much about some toxic apes or some smurfs & boosters because these ppl are playing a shit ton which is arguebly in this situation more important than jimbo55 playing 2 games per week

So i just try to see it from various angles and then think what makes most sense for them not just for us

[night egret]

ye the reality is we will have to suffer with things that are fixable or at least can be in a better state until it gets to the point it needs to be

[olive oasis]

ye is same with zeph bhop bugs or feelix rmb network issue

These kinda things u know will be fixed but are frustrating now

[night egret]

plus this is something that maybe happened but rarely, I was almost masters before leaving, i came back and got bronze 4 and i was unwillingly smurfing on my account :v i think i should've reseted a bit higher since i just went blasting noobs

[olive oasis]

Ye idkto me ranked is legit just there to keep u playing man

it serves literally no other purpose right now other than whatever u make it out to be

So cant expect devs to cater that in anyway

cos they arent wizards

and ranked will be fucked nomather what they do

it will never feel fine for the next year

simply needs time nomather what

Is like ok system is perfect but its still shit cos bots exist

skill gaps exist player count low like it legit wont matter lol

[night egret]

yeye i meant that you can be smurfing unwillingly but it doesn't really change anything plus you rank fast really i played like 8-10 games and im gold

[proud panther]

Forcing new accounts to play a certain number of games of unranked would solve the smurfing issue as well as the total noobs getting crushed in ranked issue.

Many if not most games do this just for cheating reasons. Not sure why this isn't a feature.

It would definitely help with player retention IMO.

The game also needs a full-game length bots-only tutorial with a VO given instructions but that's another story, and they can only make that once they stop completely reworking the game every other month.

Many player in unranked still don't know how to upgrade their weapons at the base camp.

[muted turtle]

It wouldn’t fix it but it would definitely help

[woeful depot]

also this ratting stuff needs to be weened out

if you aint taking objs and kills you should get less points

encouraging people to interact with the systems of the game

[night egret]

I don't think that's a good idea

you should interact with mecanics because they are good/give you an advantage

maybe some powers can just be on vaults, less gold on kills, more gold drops on vaults so you get ahead on items, making it just by points doesn't make it good enough

[woeful depot]

They do, the whole point is to try to encourage more fighting, but also incentivize people to fight or look for objectives more WITHOUT giving them more advantages than the items/gold they already get

VS Sitting around getting a kill or two and then going back to sitting until final 2 or 3

[night egret]

if you go by points with that the game would be farmville until like 15 min

[woeful depot]

No, implementation would be the thing that dictates how that ends up, there are ways to do it without making the game boring

But anyways this is a little off topic.

[grizzled dirge]

I'll be a brave master rank smurfer and speak my truth:

It's a cycle right now where you get to legend -> realize you're only going to get bronze or silver teammates -> realize you're going against 3 stacking legends on their diamond accounts -> get on your diamond account so you don't crater your RP.

I had a game with some very very lovely and nice bronze 4 people yesterday who didn't know that you could pick up base camps or press B to recall. Also they both had to go afk for multiple minutes in the middle of the game (triggering the extremely questionable "kill you if you're afk too long" mechanic, why the fuck is this a thing btw???). I want to reiterate that they were so so nice, i tried to teach them as much as i could, and I would love to play with them again today. That being said, if I'm trying to grind rank, this is NOT okay. No one is going to queue on main during peak hours if this is the experience we can expect.

I'm being put in the same lobbies either way but I am definitely getting better teammates on average while solo q on the masters smurf. I think making fresh smurfs to ruin the silver/gold lobbies is gross but my smurf is in the same lobbies as my main so I honestly don't feel bad at all for doing it. I'm not hard stacking (i team with my low rank friends) or farming bots (bots are ruining the game way more than smurfing btw).

Idk what a good solution is. I actually think the current system makes the leaderboard more legitimate, which I think is about all they can realistically achieve. People will smurf or find ways around the system but forcing solo q at legend at least makes the top 100 real...outside of bot farming obviously 🙄

[olive oasis]

Solution is designing game for future not for now :D

[wide forge]

Honestly the solution is just to get more players, xus less people will be smurfing since then they'll just be stomping lobbies which sv isn't reqlly fun if you're just stomping lobbies(at least for me and quite a few other people it seems). It will still be an issue even with more players ofc just less of an issue