Season Zero: Eva + Trios + Ranked Reset & Split Megathread

[vale token]

Drive the kids to school at the same time

[dusk scroll]

and reinhardt can also shield body block you at all time, oh wait, also no

[fickle tinsel]

i thought you were being tongue-in-cheek, i'm making the same point as you

[surreal ivy]

I wonder if there was a reason that Reinhardt couldn't do those things.

[fickle tinsel]

[vale token]

Heard they tested it internally and it felt ass to play into

[fickle tinsel]

oath being able to wail on you without you being able to interact back is not a fun experience

[dusk scroll]

would be similar to face a Brall in perma ult state that keeps knocking back you with his lmb

[surreal ivy]

All else I'm gonna say is that it's probably not a coincidence that hunters that get to tick all 3 points on the "Durable, Damaging, Mobile" triangle (that you are only ever supposed to tick 2 points on) have been problematic at some point.

[fickle tinsel]

i don't mind it too much from neutral game range mostly just because his options are far more limited in that case, though i still feel he probably shouldn't be able to LMB at all with shield up just on principle of "i can't take damage and you can" is something that has to be used incredibly carefully

[vale token]

it makes sense. such a fundamental part of game design. Cant have it all.

[cobalt mural]

I would say this should be stating the obvious but it takes 3 years of umming and ahhing to maybe consider Brall shouldn't have a parry, in fact worse still he had iterations in pre-alpha that weren't like that

[tribal stone]

he still has parry no?

[vale token]

I want bralls hp to be so low that miss timing the parry/ult he dies

[cobalt mural]

and every time people complained about the parry we got told something something defensive options

like if people were actually thinking about the combat model he wouldn't have ever reached the unworkable state he is now of just inverse pro-jail

[surreal ivy]

tbf having a parry as a defensive option would be a lot more palatable if more hunters had defensive options that weren't also their mobility option

[cobalt mural]

relative to the status quo I would add as an implicit disclaimer

[surreal ivy]

i'm not going to say give everyone a defensive ability, because i'm not the defensive ability salesman

[tribal stone]

joules mobility was her defensive and then we gutted that

[surreal ivy]

but it's not really a coincidence when hunters that have more options (and good options, at that) than basically any other hunter are strong

[tribal stone]

girl was NOT durable

[rocky topaz]

To bE fAiR Joules Mobility is everything but her CC

[cobalt mural]

Joule has been in strong iterations at varying times just not when she happened to have the defensive option removed

correction, the defensive option being on her sometimes made her quite strong

whereas now I feel like she could be retuned more easily

[fickle tinsel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXogxMj7uy4 @patent lodge 1 game of oath experience

wasn't even basic attacking her

[surreal ivy]

id argue she was kinda tuned around having full invuln on dash, given she's had it for so long

[fickle tinsel]

just holding RMB

[cobalt mural]

.i.e. why she can now be retuned without it

variety of strengths is often stronger than the sum of its parts

just look at K'sante

[tribal stone]

ya it was everything so it was very predictable. glass cannon

[raw brook]

https://www.twitch.tv/toilettj/clip/EagerDarlingYakinikuRitzMitz-iqmpp8Fvbig3e2kR

This was with the bug

But half of the shoving in this clip is still doable now

Oath is also one of his biggest offenders of shift reset cuz he gets 2 parrys back essentially

[sonic glade]

That looks way worse then it actually was because enemy team played poorly

zeph couldve dashed way earlier

oath and felix just stand in the ult for no reason

oath puts shield down and gets hit by charged lmb for no reason

[heady wigeon]

suck my high iq

[tribal stone]

yep

[vale token]

We are very rude yes

[loud harbor]

Tbf toilet literally only got hit by 1 tick of ult then the oath did the classice shield bash charged lmb which did the rest of his health. I don't see how that's playing poorly tbh.

I can understand the others but I just can't see what toilet could've even done.

[heady wigeon]

[loud harbor]

I've seen more rude people in eu than na. So this is very tru

[sonic glade]

he couldve dashed when oath appeared

[heady wigeon]

afro is ok but that toilet dude should be banned from giving takes and saying hes high elo ir would be best zeph in world

[vale token]

I am the rudest

[heady wigeon]

thats burger delusion

[vale token]

I like burgers

Home made are the best. they are kinda healthy too

[loud harbor]

If he reacted faster yea he could've honestly. Reacting to that i feel like is kind of hard tho especially since the oath came out of invis with ult.

[heady wigeon]

ye

[sonic glade]

doesn't change the fact it was poorly played

and honestly I think he thought he could just sidestep it

[heady wigeon]

Rarelt eat burger but when i do i make sure its rlly insane one

[vale token]

I like making rye burgers

[heady wigeon]

also na generally is like more passive agressive while eu is traightup or more toxic howeever u wanna see it

u cn even tell by just logging on overwatch and playing both servers for a week

[vale token]

My favorite part of some eu servers is the occasional russian guy you get

[heady wigeon]

XD

[sonic glade]

you can see he started to charge an lmb immediately so reaction time was fine

[heady wigeon]

They are among people giving the least fucks but usually i vibe with them the hardest. They dont pretend they are tryhard while chilling but ehy just honest

[vale token]

They are so flip. I dont wanna be racist or anything but they are so coin flip. The nicest person youve ever played with or turbo racist

[heady wigeon]

i never met loke racist russian

in games r smthng

I translate or say some russian and they love me XD

[vale token]

Drg is good cus of them. They always got dog shit connection. And are always so chill 9/10 times

[heady wigeon]

just say ye tebya lyublyu russia

break the ice strat

[dusk scroll]

We love comp diversity !

[frosty leaf]

Yall goated for not locking it in

Gotta respect it

[carmine forge]

what's respect in the face of 500$?

[timber shale]

i have never put kingpin in Z tier

[tribal stone]

S tier

or it was that rage bait pic LMAO

[surreal ivy]

Obligatory.

[timber shale]

https://tenor.com/view/svrainy-rage-bait-ragebait-discord-ratio-gif-13199580423258451726

@leaden condor thanks my goat. It worked

[vale token]

has this been done before

Just full oath lobby. see who's the Oath of them all

[cobalt lintel]

Needs a shrike squad in the middle

[surreal ivy]

shrike team was decided by where the shrike portrait decided to get pasted.

[loud harbor]

Beebo's current design is kimd of dumb. For the one reason of how you can win but literally just getting lucky. No skill involved just luck.

Something like that feel insanly stupid when you lose simply cus your opponent got lucky.

Then his fucking utility is almost unmatched, can heal can anti heal and do a decent amount of consistent dmg, then cns ground and allow your team to stay over the abyss literally forever. Then his car just has to let hom insta kill you cus he's beebo.

We love beebo ._.

Then there are those times when a beebo stuns you on the wall consistently for like a minute straight. Which is so fucking annoying to play against and idfk why he is able to stun again with his lmb before the stun is actually over.

[torn fern]

btw I don't think you guys remember but a full NA team (TLD) won both NA and EU showmatches back to back! as well as winning another time with only one EU player as our sub while Aidan subbed into a full NA roster but guess we have selective memory bias

Eu never did that so guess it doesn't really matter unless we're on even ping

and the only time EU does anything in NA scrims is by doing nothing and ratting for placement which anyone can do if you don't interact and hide the entire game

so the argument is pretty invalid

[dreamy swan]

YOU ARE SO MAD

[loud harbor]

Phenom cannot handle when something cool tld did isn't remembered.

[torn fern]

EU noob

[chilly matrix]

How do u call a lobby with at least 36 clowns? ||NA SCRIMS||

[chilly matrix]

i guess it's 32 now with the lobby changes

[timber shale]

34*

[chilly matrix]

36 minus TLD

or 34 idk

[timber shale]

no wait

i am the troll

its 36

math is hard

[chilly matrix]

indeed

[dreamy swan]

tld not even the best team anymore

[indigo spear]

can we expect a hotfix for this?

[timber shale]

next patch is tuesday

[indigo spear]

oh okay gonna wait for it then

[chilly matrix]

as if anyone cares about who wins this clown fiesta nowadays

[stuck nexus]

i honestly hope they turn it into a mechanic

its the only reason some of us are even touching Eva

if they remove this "bug" give us something in return or we become useless again

crysta snowballs proccing passive was confirmed unintended but still exists

beebo bomb taking basecamps was unintended at first afaik

and then became a mechanic

just let eva have this block mechanic

its so skill expressive and oath and celeste can do the same thing

[indigo spear]

I wouldnt care that much if it wasnt for the fact i dont get any shield at all

If it was something like a lvl 4 thing i would be more ok with it

If i could get my shield from the orbs ofc

[loud harbor]

If they are too keep it they gotta do something about her healing and dmg.

But tbh it seems like it'd be kinda dumb for them to keep this bug. Regardless of if you want it or not.

And she honestly doesn't need anything to compensate.

[fickle tinsel]

well they said they're patching it

[stuck nexus]

im aware

and its a bad thing

[fickle tinsel]

I disagree

for several reasons but I will leave it at that

[stuck nexus]

well then compensate for removing my characters only viable competitive element

cus its going back to C-tier max after this

atleast fix the CDR on Q pull

it should be 10, not 12

20 minus 5 minus 5 is 10

[loud harbor]

Eva males her team immortal half the time yet this is all that males her good.

"Just run a hunter with anti heal", being forced to use anti heal just cus eva exist is stupid but supposedly you aren't forced to yet literally the sane people who say you aren't forced to run anti heal to deal with eva use it as a reason why her healing is fine.

[indigo spear]

if u are talking about arena i agree that shes kinda broken that

but in br its just a loot dummy

[rocky topaz]

Tbh, playing a bunch of different hunters recently, and Eva has been by far the easiest to do well on

[loud harbor]

When I'm playing hudson she quite literally will not fucking die. In either br or arena. Giving a character that much healing is going to be a problem no matter fucking what.

Then if you aren't playing a hinter with a fuck ton of anti heal, the game quote literally says "go fuck yourself" when you fight an eva cus good luck doing anything at all.

[upbeat spade]

To beat Eva you either take anti heal or pressure them off the location. She is a space controller. Her dash is really bad, and if she's uses that she can get run down if you push her with 2 people

[indigo spear]

idk to me hudson should be actually good against her

can cc her orbs or kill them fast enough while being out of range

just need someone to peel him

[fickle tinsel]

the bug only affects like 4 matchups and half of them aren't meta as well, so it certainly isn't her "competitive element"

[rocky topaz]

Yea not at all. She has so much power in her kit already, a very niche mechanic isn't really effecting too much of her power

[torn fern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1211167508598620182/1232069781578973194/caption.gif

[stuck nexus]

amazing take as always my friend

love clicking on this discord

[vale token]

It does always feel bad to have something taken away from a character when they atleast arent percieved as too strong

I feel there could be a middle ground. It could be made into a lvl4 for orbs. "Orbs block projectiles and line of sight"
since just extra radius is a tad boring (even though its strong/ok as is)

[rocky topaz]

I think that would be an interesting position

But I am afraid of Eva meta that I could see happening

[upbeat spade]

Eva meta = Brall Felix meta

[livid warren]

I like the idea of making it an L4 feature. Then it's both a decision point and clearly-documented so others know to counterplay it.

[vale token]

Dw they add way more antiheal and make her unplayable

[livid warren]

(whereas as it was, it was not at all clear that her orbs were intended to block projectiles.)

[indigo spear]

shes too slow to follow engages like those 2

[upbeat spade]

I mean she will get dove by them

[livid warren]

I think I'd even be fine with it as a default part of her kit if it was documented in the tooltip, though.

[vale token]

Man I am such a good takes machine

[upbeat spade]

And they will be prio to counter her

[indigo spear]

brall maybe

[fickle tinsel]

I'm pretty against the idea mostly down to a clarity hazard

[indigo spear]

but felix cant anti heal her so its ggs for him

[fickle tinsel]

Orbs can be walked and shot through

So why should it block LoS? Traditionally if you can walk and shoot through it = doesn't block LoS

That and Eva orbs are small and not prominent in a fight all the time

Just getting LoS blocked by something you possibly didn't even notice would suck (and currently does)

[livid warren]

Would you feel differently if the L4 upgrade to orbs also made it so they couldn't be walked through / shot (IE: they were consistent on that front)?

[crisp iron]

I feel like that's too significant of a difference in rules of engagement to tie to a level 4 ability

[fickle tinsel]

Probably not, since then they can be used to bodyblock and become annoying to traverse in gameplay

[vale token]

fair enough

[fickle tinsel]

That and this LoS thing only affects like 4 matchups

[crisp iron]

If they had a significant visual change maybe but I still feel like it's a bit much

[fickle tinsel]

yeah bit much

[livid warren]

I agree the lack of consistency is not a good thing.

[crisp iron]

Level 4 abilities are in a weird spot where we want them to do something unique and meaningfully change how a hunter's kit works, but they also need to be held back in scope so you don't just lose because you didn't know what level 4 ability a hunter chose.

I do not envy TC for having to ride that line.

[indigo spear]

i feel like lvl4s are really disappointing rn for the majority of the cast

almost all of them are like number go up or cd goes down

[vale token]

Hudsons rmb one is literally +10% dmg

[fickle tinsel]

My friend and I actually did a measurement of how we feel about level 3s for hunters like 2 days ago

[upbeat spade]

I don't think they should be too transformative as it would just become a balancing nightmare as well as figuring out what the enemy is building would be too obscured.

[vale token]

Also the characters werent really designed around having the max lvl versions

I DO feel like they could copy what deadlock does.

[fickle tinsel]

the rankings were something like this:

Brall: 2/3
Jin: 2/3
Joule: 0/3
Myth: 3/3
Kingpin: 3/3
Bishop: 3/3
Crysta:3/3
Saros: 1/3
Shiv: 2/3
Felix: 1/3
Oath: 1/3
Elluna: 2/3
Zeph: 2/3
Beebo:2/3
Celeste:1/3
Hudson:0/3
Void:3/3

[vale token]

Yall know how deadlocks thing works?

[vale token]

Glorious king hudson stays winning

[indigo spear]

played a long time ago

how is it now?

[vale token]

Game in general or the ability level system?

[indigo spear]

the leveling

i remember it giving range duration and stuff for some abilities

[vale token]

Im redownloading rn just to check if its changed. I see no mention in the big patch notes

[crisp iron]

It also had a scaling ability points cost per level of ability which was suoer interesting back when I played

[indigo spear]

yeah that too

[crisp iron]

It encouraged unique levelling paths instead of just maxxing your bread and butter ability first (in most cases)

[indigo spear]

the item system in that game was crazy fun as well

[vale token]

Exactly that system im talking about

[indigo spear]

buying duration and range was really sick

[crisp iron]

I couldn't stand the item system lol, more than anything that's what made me quit deadlock

[crisp iron]

Oh wait that specific part was cool. It was the active items being stronger than ultimate abilities part that killed it for me

[vale token]

I feel the ability level is pretty smartly done. Everyone does all those things end game but when you level and what you level matters

[indigo spear]

that part sucked yeah

at least it was a fun game for a while

[indigo spear]

they would have to change exp soul if they wanted to go in that direction

but to me lvl4s should be crazier

like defining how you play from that point on

[vale token]

The lvl 4 being too crazy might cause issues with balance but I do agree they should be interesting.

Kinda wish they go in the deadlock direction where ability points empower the abilities in different ways and the last one adds a more interesting effect.

So you would kinda want to fast level 1 ability sometimes and other times you want another more

[stuck nexus]

this is how elluna / bishops kits look to me LOL

and then eva gets "+0.1 sec immunity duration"

incredible lvl 4 upgrade

[crisp iron]

My fave was Lash's ground slam. The final level gave it scaling damage based on how high in the air you were at the start of cast. In theory it's just a number change, but that change informs an entire playstyle where you want to be getting as much air as possible to get as much damage as possible. This also had a knock on effect of making lash a more stealthy engager bc high slams were easier to dodge.

[vale token]

Similar to KP airslam thing. Difference is lash is already in the air

[crisp iron]

Tru. Kp's air slam damage is also capped, Lash's wasn't.

Lash was such a fun character. Maybe one day I'll go back to it

[indigo spear]

yeah lvl 2 and 3 would need some work as well

rn is just number changes so you might as well just go straight for a lvl4

[vale token]

Like lash ability 1 starts as just long cd dmg cone. first point makes it lower cd. 2 points makes it cc. 5 ability points investement it becomes a nuke tool.
You can build around it completely.

ability 2 is orginally just a jump/mobility tool but investing in it makes primary way stronger

Ability function is same but it now has extra and is used differently

[vale token]

True

Almost as good as 10% more dmg

I think eva Shift could be a cool ability to build around if its levels worked differently.

Like first point could just cd. Second point could be something more interesting like "Higher ms boost when dodging something"

Or like "give 0.1s of I frames instead of incorp"

"Cd reduc for successful dodge"

"Lmb dmg ramp stays full charge for 3 seconds after dodge"

Something

This is my favorite

dmg cd dmg cd dmg+

[crisp iron]

Ain't that ghost laser?

Wait no ai'm dumb

[vale token]

Its really funny to me how its hard to tell

[crisp iron]

Gimme like 5 i'll figure it out

[vale token]

cd

[raw brook]

joule spear

[vale token]

cd 👍

[crisp iron]

BEAT ME TO IT

[crisp iron]

Beebo dash

[vale token]

https://tenor.com/view/one-loop-gif-gif-22716874

[vale token]

✅

[raw brook]

would be cool if joule had any level 4 options besides dash

[crisp iron]

This is a fun game actually

[crisp iron]

It's an ult

GHOST ULT

[vale token]

❌

Try again

[crisp iron]

You right ghost ult takes more cd away i think

[vale token]

Its Jin ult

These are two different ults

[crisp iron]

YOIKAS

[vale token]

Two different ults

[crisp iron]

I'm stumped actually

[vale token]

Another ult

Oh hey

[crisp iron]

Meaningfully different upgrades per level would be real cool

[vale token]

Ghost, kp

[vale token]

Oath

[vale token]

shrike

[vale token]

Crysta, Myth

Oh hey void ult

lemme check deadlocks ults for funsies

similar system

[crisp iron]

I know for a fact they're super interesting

Some of them are pure stats tho

[vale token]

Still a little more interesting them -5s cd

[crisp iron]

Numbers, but more varied numbers

That's mo & krill right?

[crisp iron]

LASHHHHHH

[vale token]

https://tenor.com/view/deadlock-welcome-to-lash-city-valve-lash-gif-10522548350812131673

[crisp iron]

https://tenor.com/view/deadlock-lash-sparkle-on-lash-its-wednesday-deadlock-its-wednesday-sparkle-on-gif-903126543835006241

[vale token]

These upgrades atleast change up how the ults work if even by a little.

[rocky topaz]

I bet LVL 4 stuff is something they will look at prior to 1.0

[vale token]

I feel they will most likely go into a similar direction in vive. down the line

[stuck nexus]

trivia chat

i recognized myth ult immediately

[vale token]

Currently I feel a decent chunk of the sytems in place are in a "Should be looked at sooner or later" state

[rocky topaz]

Yea, but I mean, they have a few months to look at stuff and from all the feedback I can definitely see them looking into lvl 4's

[vale token]

Yeah for sure.

[indigo spear]

i feel like the hunters are the same

eva for me could be a great drain tank but as a healer she kinda sucks

[indigo spear]

idk about that

[vale token]

There are a pretty good amount "Bad aid" systems in place

If they lock the fuck in they can but theres a lot to do and limited time.

[indigo spear]

it feels like they are pretty much set with what they are gonna do until release with the no new content thing

[surreal ivy]

would hope so given we've been talking about how many lvl 4 options suck for months now

[vale token]

I love 10% more dmg

twice

its not even actually 10%

All hudson rmb points give 5% dmg if going by testing

double checking it

Wait a second

The dmg boost doesnt affect base dmg

Yup each point affects the ap ratio and not the base dmg

https://tenor.com/view/cat-brick-fast-brick-throw-dead-af-gif-18208531324542038920

[rocky topaz]

Yea, I know they have been asking about some of them, and they are still looking into changes for certain hunters

[fickle tinsel]

Oath heal has a similar problem where it only affects the base value and not the health ratio

[vale token]

https://tenor.com/view/trade-offer-splendid-ugsb-gif-7627756256399239444

[fickle tinsel]

I don't think oath needs it either but the tooltip should at least be consistent with other characters having similar effects

just put like "25% base healing" in the tooltip

[livid warren]

I find Deadlock's ability system to be pretty smart. It specifically forgo's the usual symmetric level advantages, and it creates an interesting decision around breakpoints.

Like for Wraith, her best build by far is to rush 2nd upgrade on her 1, but you don't need 3rd upgrade for 1 at all.

And it's weird because I see a mix of that in SV's ability design, but I feel like it just makes it confusing because it's more an exception than a rule.

Like Oath's Q is +healing then -cd (L4 is just +healing again; kinda boring). But at least half the skills follow the formula of just doing the same thing L2 / L3.

[vale token]

Vives ability levels arent really that thought through.

-5s cd -5s cd

Vs what evers happening in deadlock

[livid warren]

Broadly agree.

[vale token]

I dont think vive devs have had the proper time to sit and just think about them

They seemed to be spread kinda thin and are now hopefully finnishing all the ground work put down

So heres hoping we get interesting ability levels atleast at some point down the line

[livid warren]

If they don't, I think it's fine. I like the asymmetric upgrades, but ultimately, League does fine with a bland upgrade system. And it makes builds more immediately intuitive (IE: R>Q>E>W).

I do think they should either lean fully-in or fully-out though. Having a smattering of asymmetry just feels inconsistent.

(That could be true on either the L2-L4 level, or just the L4 level. I think it would be fine if L2/L3 was always consistent and L4 was always different. But right now the L4s aren't consistently different either, despite the stated design goal.)

Like Oath's Q and RMB L4s do the same things as the L2s of those skills. But his Shift L4 does something completely new and different.

It just feels inconsistent and a little jarring.

Similarly, Oath's Q and RMB L2s are different from the L3s, whereas the shifts L2 and L3 are the same.

Then you compare it to Kingpin, who's L2s always mirror their L3s, and L4s are all broadly changing the skill.

Bishop, none of the L2s and L3s are the same. Etc. It's just all over the place.

[bitter slate]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1365843191181348935 created a bishop thread hope this helps!!

[loud harbor]

Can we get some form of the huddy bish bug back? So that I can actually enjoy a character I like while I wait for his rework.

[shell pecan]

I agree, I feel like level 4 abilities should be massive power spikes where a large portion of your hunter's power budget is located and dramatically shift how you play your hunter.

My concerns would be that making level 4 abilities a larger power spike would limit level orders a lot by forcing players to max their first ability to best take advantage of their power spikes, that the midgame power spikes of maxing an ability at 6 and getting ult at 7 might make it too easy to snowball a lead, and that hunter balance would be too heavily dictated by whoever has good level 4 abilities instead of more wholistically caring about what the hunter's kit can do.

[indigo spear]

They could balance that by locking lvl 4 to a specific lvl

Like lvl 9

Or taking from deadlock make it cost more points to level

So u can choose if u want to ignore one of your abilities and go straight for a lvl 4 or just lvl everything and then go for it

[stuck nexus]

and suddenly elluna and eva are unplayable

lets not do that

[indigo spear]

This will never happen

I think the majority of players just want a little more flavour on lvl4s not some crazy shit like what I would like to see

And from what i get from the recent fireside they are pretty much locked on what they want dor 1.0

[stuck nexus]

i think elluna has the best lvl4 options in the game

not in terms of power-level but in terms of all 3 of them being somewhat viable and enabling completely unique playstyles

bishop is slightly similar but her rmb max is just overtuned af

[indigo spear]

Some hunters are ok

[stuck nexus]

i wish to see more of this for other characters

[indigo spear]

But a good portion of the cast is just number go up

[stuck nexus]

myth is also alright except for her dash max being garbage and rain being overtuned

they could add -1sec CD to it and maybe some people would take it

over arrow rain max

i just like it when characters lvl 4s provide a unique playstyle

for eva nothing u take makes the character unique

same as ghost

ghost has 2 unpickable lvl 4 upgrades that dont to anything

[fading mountain]

@grim cloak Also i wanted to mention about the like, beginner pass

Directly from my fren who was caught in the middle, a big thing is also just like.. There's no emotes, no cool rewards for leveling up, only the "boring" rewards on the hunters journey (except hunter tokens)

[loud harbor]

I'm honestly pretty pissed rn. At how Hudson is. Yes ik he's getting reworked, but when can we expect that rework? Probably in a couple months. Ik it's gonna take time to get right but he could be fun rn.

The bush bug that existed on him made him actually fun. And it wasn't even that broken. He was legit only B tier at most with it, and it made him actually reqlly fun to play. But fuck me, fuck me for thinking I can enjoy Hudson.

When I found the bug I shared it almost instantly cus I was excited that Hudson was finally fun to play, but instead of going something with it like making it cost mana per every bush you reset off of or smth like that, tc just takes away something that made Hudson actually fun and gave him a fighting chance. And now they're forcing us to wait months when they very well just could've done something with the bush bug while they work on the rework. But ig that's just too hard.

Why tf sis you guys have to take away the Hudson dash reseting on bushes? You guys could've very well done something with it instead.

[rocky topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/bart-say-the-line-gif-22118591

[indigo spear]

ngl it feels like you are just spamming atp

[vale token]

Could have said "pls give hudson his bush back "

No fr though could have said it way shorter

[loud harbor]

I could've. But as I said, I'm annoyed rn.

[loud harbor]

You try playing a hunter you really like when half their kit just does not work half the time. Then when you get something that actually makes that hunter really fun and let's them compete with other hunters it's taken out cus it's unintended then you're told to wait months before you get literally anything.

[indigo spear]

this is not the place for u to vent your frustration

like we got it the 1st time

its just annoying now

[fading mountain]

They're absolutely allowed to

There is no better place than the discussions.

[indigo spear]

i know but when its like every single day the same complaint it gets old

even more so when they are working on the issue

[raw brook]

Ngl more people are understanding you after playing huddy. Reasonable crashout lowkey. Feel you from the joule camp

[fading mountain]

I mean hudson kinda has the shrike problem of

"Too strong if people do not know what he does"

[raw brook]

Joule shrike huddy are some of the most efficient noob farmers

[fading mountain]

Yep

[rocky topaz]

The issue is that Shirke has a much higher ceiling that can lead to them being extremely good, depending on the player

[loud harbor]

Idk I feel like I crashout too much playing him. Joule is currently experiencing what Hudson has for the longest time. It sucks, and sometimes I prob am too spamy.

[loud harbor]

Lowkey jin is too. Just not as much cus hos kit is naturally harder.

[raw brook]

Jin farm noobs if its in hand of a good pilot

Noob v noob not so scary

[fading mountain]

I still disagree with shrike being high ceiling

Her ceiling is every normal mechanic

If you know ability management and movement, you've mastered shrike mostly - She still has mechanical combos, but it's not much, really.

[raw brook]

Maybe but also like huddy has been abysmal dogshit since early November

[fading mountain]

In general the ceiling is fairly low in vive, honestly

You could summarize it to "hit your shots" in theory

[raw brook]

Its all mechanical execution

[loud harbor]

I get that. But all the noob needs to know is that his q2 insta kills over abyss then it's just free kills from there.

[fading mountain]

Yeah

[rocky topaz]

Well, I mean, I think that personally Shrike has a higher ceiling then most of the hunters because of all of her different options. I get that aint a popular oppinion, but it is what I think.

[loud harbor]

Some hunters have simple yet high skill ceiling. While others have more complex skill ceilings that don't just boil down to hotnyour shots. And others literally have such a low skill ceiling it's laughable.

[dusk scroll]

it's harder to play Shrike than Myth. And that's weird

Myth is so giga broken and inflated, that playing with the cursed and semi functional kit of Shrike is more skillful IMO

(against human being)

[raw brook]

Thats kinda like how felix is unironically more difficult atm than ghost lol

[loud harbor]

I love playing myth and for some reason doing 10 times betywr than on the hunter I've spent 1000 hours on

[rocky topaz]

Mechanical difficulty is different then performance difficulty

[fading mountain]

Unfortunatly true

[dusk scroll]

there is close to no room fore mistake when you play Shrike in high elo. Meanwhile Bishop has 3 dash and a ult if she mess up

[fading mountain]

That doesnt make their ceiling higher

Just means the character is act balanced

Lol

[loud harbor]

Similar to Hudson, I overstep the tiniest amount and suddenly I'm insta dead to a shiv or smth.

[indigo spear]

same with felix one cc and you go back to lobby

[raw brook]

This isnt ceiling and more just how hard it is to get results atm, which isnt the ceiling

[indigo spear]

if the ttk wasnt so low i think this wouldnt be a thing

[dusk scroll]

I played a lot of Myth when i started the game, and saying that hitting Myth lmb is skilled would be purely delusional for example.

[loud harbor]

Hunters with higher ceilings will likely dominate high elo lobbies. And it sucks when the hunter you like is simpler so they end up struggling.

That's how it's felt for me.

[rocky topaz]

To me, high ceiling means that a character is drastically more impressive the more you play the character, and Shrike absolutely get's more impressive the longer you play her. A person with a bunch of hours on Shrike plays drastically different to someone who doesn't

[dusk scroll]

This for example, nothing crazy. But most new Shrike players won't ever use their dash to get value of their ult

[rocky topaz]

exactly

Someone who is newer to shrike, or does not have a lot of time on shrike would not know to do something like this, or that it is even possible

[dusk scroll]

I feel like even the game is confused, because dashing while charging a shot make the animation bugged

[dreamy swan]

shrike 😎

[dusk scroll]

like it wasn't intended in her kit

and that's fine

[loud harbor]

Take it away and make shrike shit cus it's unintended 😎(jk pls don't)

[dreamy swan]

[loud harbor]

A simple issue with Hudson that currently exist, 3 wires to stop people from coming onto you and 1 dash makes you go oom. Doesn't seem like much if an issue cus that's all he can really do it seems. But he can get dash resets apon ramming players or mobs, and using a camp to get a dash reset is something that's pretty common now. And being oom before I can even take advantage of the dash reset is mega frustrating. Just as frustrating as it was going oom on kp before to me.

Hope this issue does not exist in future rework.

[vale token]

Talk today?

[grim cloak]

Hi! Yeah. I'm a little under the weather, but down.

[quiet bridge]

!

I'm sorry to hear you're feeling under the weather on your birthday

I hope you have a nice weekend coming up!

[toxic ruin]

Every time Safelocked is sick, it's her birthday :(

[grim cloak]

Crazy how it works.

Yeah! I'm not too far gone. We're doing our longer Friday playtest right now, too.

[quiet bridge]

That sounds fun c:

[vale token]

Aw hope you feel better soon

[fading mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-ghost-hug-ghosthug-hugs-gif-5670502

Hope you feel better soon!

[grim cloak]

Thanks all.

[vale token]

Ive been recently wondering about the clarity of the status bar that sits on top of enemies and allies.

The mana portion doesnt really tell how much mana they have remaining. and important stuff like what items/passives they have are hidden

Its just these 2 little boxes with color. Honestly didnt even notice they are there for my first 10 hours or so of gameplay

[toxic ruin]

I'm just gonna make the obligatory "Please make the colors more distinguishable" comment before going lurking

[fickle tinsel]

Aw sorry to hear that Jess :( hope you feel better soon

[young bone]

time for carbine thread?

[vale token]

Like the bar currently just doesnt display I have close to 300 mana. or the fact I have unique passives on items.
I feel the mana bar could use those seperator lines at 50 intervals so it would be easier to tell when someone has mana

[fickle tinsel]

It might actually be time for a new megathread, if we're still doing one per content patch

I'm really curious as to how Carbine landed for everyone, I think he's really well rounded

[vale token]

Also the two red boxes are basically whats giving me 80% of my stats.

And they are kind of easy to miss

is out dated gonna mention hudson

[patent lodge]

Not the 🐐 sick 😭

[loud harbor]

I wanna mention how most helmets might as well be useless. And I'm pretty sure literally the only hinter who can run full tank and make it work well rn is oath. Aince helmets don't give ap you lose so much dmg that going full tank is newrly never worth. And the only helmets that have really good passives are the tech helmets, then prob greed. And the rest feel kind of useless to me.

[fading mountain]

Not important in any way but I think you'd find this really cool! :D
#🎨│fan-art message

[livid warren]

Bladed helm does give AP, FWIW. When I play full tank Oath, I usually do Gigantism (HP -> AP) off bladed + the share damage tech helm that I forget the name of.

I'm with you that I haven't run double helm on any other character though (and broadly agree helmets feel worse than daggers).

[vale token]

Im wondering about posting my weekly Yap manifesto

[fickle tinsel]

Major said something really good about this earlier I believe

Imo Helms don't feel encouraged enough on characters who should be building them

because damage is just king

[loud harbor]

Oh yea forgot about that one. Gigantism does feel a little required cus of ap it gives, which feels weird. It's like you either have to proc greed asap or run gigantism.

[fickle tinsel]

I don't feel like building helmets on most characters is worth it when I can just kill people so they're not dealing damage

[loud harbor]

Yea... on like 99% of hunters it's just full dmg.

[vale token]

Scalings are so high. Base dmg too low

[patent lodge]

There are so many times I want to try helm on Characters but the scaling is just SO dogshit I can't

[fickle tinsel]

like I play Felix, I want to build helms because I want to play a tanky frontliner, yet I find myself playing double vamp because a.) I actually do damage on it, and b.) I'm tankier HEALING than, actually building tank items, assuming I'm not CC'd

[vale token]

Been wondering if more scalings should be level based rather then item based

[fickle tinsel]

Why is Felix's meta build double damage RMB max

that sucks

[vale token]

Items feel a little unintuitive as a way to gain stat power when compared to levels

[patent lodge]

I miss back in the day wtih League where you can do really specific and niche shit that may not be good but fun. Shit like full heal max Kayle back in day was SO much fun

[loud harbor]

Unless a hunter has smth that has max hp scaling you can barely run hybrid. Unless you're gonna go vive infuser, since that is good if your hunter dashes a lot. Otherwise you have literally no reason to run helmets.

[vale token]

Void seems to run it in Arena sometimes.

[loud harbor]

Fuck felix engage, felix mid range poke better. It is weird.

[patent lodge]

I would love for TC to have stuff like that where it may not be meta but it is more of an option where hunter's could bring some extra health and whatever that unqiue passive is. Like Vive infusor on Carbine is a lot of fun but I could NEVER build it unless I get it through a random reroll

[raw brook]

issue with max hp scalings is that if its only damage then its basically the same as buying daggers

with just mroe stats

[livid warren]

Yeah I was very surprised when I actually went into the practice area and just started looking at the numbers as I was equipping items.

Like, two basic non-upgraded daggers give a literal +137% buff to Eva's orb damage. It's just hard to give that up.

[raw brook]

things like oath shiled hp and oath heal hp playing with his max hp is really nice

[vale token]

Ive been brewing this idea of Levels giving you the bulk of your stats while items could be more for passive and other stats like CDR and Omni

[patent lodge]

@fickle tinsel you wanna tell him about that HP % max scaling and how it works on Oath or do I break the news?

[vale token]

And dmg/hp being tied more to level would make balancing way easier

[patent lodge]

I tried a build on Oath wanting to SPECIFICALLY do that build @raw brook and the # scaling doesn't work as I would have expected 😭

[loud harbor]

Yea. They cant just have helmets give dmg the way they are now.

I do wish they'd do more max hp scaling tho. Like hudson's wires or celeste's wall could have max hp scaling.

[raw brook]

wdym

also making pots heal for max hp

[grim cloak]

Yeah, I'll make a new one for sure.

[raw brook]

its really silly when you are mega chungus 4k health and your pot heals for 1/10th of your health

[stuck nexus]

the current supervive patch has greatly improved the competitive meta, characters like eva / jin are considered very weak in coordinated play and easily punishable, but are problematic in ranked with the soloque restrictions and unbalanced matchmaking because teams arent able to deal with them properly, will the balancing philosophy be oriented around teambuilding and premade squads or soloque in the future?

[fickle tinsel]

Yeah so the health scalings on Oath heal don't increase per level

It's JUST base healing

[raw brook]

oh

[patent lodge]

So @fickle tinsel I think can explain it a lot better then me, but tmk his lvl 2 andlvl 3 ONLY effect the base healing

[raw brook]

thats pretty lame

[fickle tinsel]

yeah

[patent lodge]

So you can't get funny big # based on scaling

[raw brook]

it still heals max hp tho later right

jsut not a big bonus as you would want it to

that happens with a lot of spells

[fickle tinsel]

correct

[raw brook]

i think

the tool tips are prett yunclear

[fickle tinsel]

the max HP still works but it doesn't scale

[raw brook]

about how the % increase actually interacts

[loud harbor]

I also wanna mention how I don't think jin is healthy for the game, and when he is strong that is more true.

My main reason is I think his abyss play is bad for the game. I feel like having a hunter who can kind of just ignore gliders. And it feels like he makes abyss fights unfufn when it involves him.

I don't think having a hunter who makes interacting with a core mechanic unfun is good.

[fickle tinsel]

Have you seen my thread?

[patent lodge]

There is 100% a massive tooltip issue with so many hutner's. I feel it is hard to theorycraft when some things just don't work as said/communicated as well

[raw brook]

yea

[fickle tinsel]

it's pretty rough

I just added a ton more like

2 days ago

[raw brook]

things like felix rmb saying +200% ap ratio

[patent lodge]

I am PRAYING that AND bugs get hugely worked on before 1.0

[raw brook]

doesnt really tell you the story of how that actually works

[fickle tinsel]

yeah

definitely unclear

[raw brook]

same for joules 100% non passive dash damage

[fickle tinsel]

Should be like "+60 Base Damage, Increases AP ratio to 94%" for felix RMB

[raw brook]

eya

[patent lodge]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1353472357691297792

[crisp iron]

omg I almost forgot about the talk today

[raw brook]

time to spread anti eva agenda

[crisp iron]

yes

[raw brook]

arena could do with some of its own balancing like aram

but ofc its low prio for TC

[patent lodge]

What are some of yall's hopes for 1.0? I mean in the sense if there was ONE thing you could get for sure into 1.0, what would it be?

For me it would be bug/tooltip clean up

[crisp iron]

So Eva...

I don't have a ton of experience against her in BR but in Arena she's as stat-sticky as hunters can come. You either beat her as your hunter or you cannot damage her or her orbs faster than she can heal them. I have also been in situations where Eva hits a 1 person ult on me and then stands on top of the ult healing it constantly to a point where I cannot kill it and am forced to take a stun and die.

I don't like how binary she is. Either she does her job so well that you cannot deal with her, or you completely annihilate her before she can do it.

I feel like her orbs have too much health and her heals are far too quick

[patent lodge]

Oh she is stat-sticky as FUCK now in br as well. I actually completely dropped her for most part because she is such a 2D character in my experience with her it makes me sad :((

[crisp iron]

Eva's just... boring? Like I see her in my game and I feel like luck of the draft dictates if I can engage with her in any way, not my actions in the game itself. If I drafted a hunter that can fight her I can fight her, if not then I am entirely at her mercy.

[patent lodge]

When we were talking about it in thread a couple weeks ago I mentioned some other utility changes that I feel may have helped her be more interesting then just kinda shift+rmb+lifesteal

[vale token]

I blame antiheal for her situation.

[patent lodge]

Like imagine if she could heal/damage things inbetween her tether so positioning mattered more (nerf her healing/damage in general so that isn't as oppressive) or make it so she isn't slowed while tethering her orb but revert her shift cooldown buffs so then she has to focus on moving her orbs more to reward movement on her

[crisp iron]

I think in her current state she's going to be just as bad for 1.0 as Hudson meta was for OB launch. There are ways to play around her, but they require a baseline skill that new players won't have or consider, and that even skilled players can struggle with depending on if they lucked into a winnable matchup vs her

[patent lodge]

And that is just spitballing

[fickle tinsel]

yeah I never feel like I outplay an Eva

[raw brook]

eva could be much more interesting if your orbs were mroe dynamic but they are really sluggish in movement and still get caught on a lot of things. her kit is pretty uninteractive for a lot of the cast

[fickle tinsel]

I feel like I statcheck her

and hit her with anti-heal

[livid warren]

I played a fair bit of Eva when I was finishing my grind to Master. She just composition-checks some teams in her current state, and I'd agree it's likely not healthy.

Having said that, I don't dislike the concept of her playstyle. Almost everyone in SV is a zoom zoom run and gun shooter, and Eva is very much more designed around holding an area. I think there's something to that design.

[vale token]

Anti heal

[patent lodge]

I think lean into moving orb around in fight, reduce base stat checking thinks she has, and add utility for doing so well (like more mobility whiel in orb and tether effecting multiple people)

[fickle tinsel]

(then again, felix, I don't really outplay anyone )

[raw brook]

orb micro is by far the most interesting thing in her kit

[crisp iron]

She reminds me of Garen in League - a notoriously polarizing champ. You either win your matchup vs him, or you get stomped. There are very few inbetweens and it makes him incredibly frustrating.

[raw brook]

but you dont have to do a lot of that

[patent lodge]

oh 100% but youd ont use it

exactly

there no incentive to

[vale token]

Playing Eva Id preffer power taken away from the orb and more focus on lmb.

[fickle tinsel]

I like the idea of incentives for putting orb on multiple targets

[raw brook]

using your mouse to dodge skillsshots on your orb is really interesting

[vale token]

And orbs being slidier so I can kinda do curling with them

https://tenor.com/view/sliding-winter-olympics2022-coming-gliding-curling-gif-24657850

[patent lodge]

imagine they make shift on longer cd but if you tether it and drag it around you more and you get to use mobility to move across the map and in fights

[vale token]

I wanna do this with the orbs

[patent lodge]

That way you are always trying to stay in your orb but always put it around allies/enemies

[vale token]

Sling it at a teammate

[raw brook]

moving your orbs forward is incredibly awkward

[crisp iron]

slingshotting your orbs could be hellla cool and skill expressive

[raw brook]

you technically can already sling shot them

[vale token]

Been saying since her launch

[fickle tinsel]

I do wonder though, what's the incentive for slingshotting orbs even if she could?

[patent lodge]

I think it feels weird because when tethering you are slowed yet inside orb you get increase ms but because of the slow you don't get to feel the ms as much, that just my personal take on it tho

[raw brook]

you move orbs behind her faster

[vale token]

Let them float more.

[fickle tinsel]

Like ultimately the goal will be "stay in orb and keep enemy in orb to statcheck"

[raw brook]

i mean that is a fair enough trade off right

[patent lodge]

I use to with @fickle tinsel fling my orbs infront of me while shifting and using abyss movement to fly forward and shit and it is so sick but there just not incentive to constantly do that

[crisp iron]

Range. Getting them to someone out of your immediate range for a save

[vale token]

Also one thing id like is if the orbs lost their hp as they healed. So getting damaged inside the orb would deplete the orb faster

[raw brook]

thats just a lot of things on her kit that would be cool

but theres no reason to do any of it

cuz standing on the orb just does more

[patent lodge]

Yup

It so so sad

[stray dock]

Did they remove that? The orbs totally did that, at least at launch. Healing burned their hp and aoe

[raw brook]

TLD is of course already the best team in our region, so results are gonna skew to them naturally, but they have been finding a lot a lot of success with eva

[patent lodge]

Feel I've expressed my feedback in threads/dms tho so it just balling ffrom here for me

[raw brook]

she is incredibly oppressive if you do not have anti heal

and reliable anti heal is on very few champs

[vale token]

I meant like MORE. Like the healing on them would dynamically react to damage

[raw brook]

outside of brall

[fickle tinsel]

This still boils down to "heal your low health target" and overall is just a straight buff

I think she needs more dynamic gampelay in general, and while this could help, doesn't solve the problem of most of her gameplay being "put orb on ally and enemy and statcheck people"

[raw brook]

myth rain cant consistently apply the anti

[patent lodge]

There was a arena match this morning that had you in it and i dont remember if yo uwere enemy or ally but we had NO answer to it LOL

[raw brook]

yea i was playing the eva

i think

[crisp iron]

Totally agree, I just think it could be a cool start to something new

[raw brook]

74k healing

[patent lodge]

I remember you on the Eva

[raw brook]

first game ever btw

:)

[patent lodge]

I WAS CURIOUS HOW MUCH THAT WAS LOL

I was like "Damn what do we do there"

[raw brook]

ive never played a single game of eva ever

[patent lodge]

LMFAOOO

[raw brook]

and its just that easy to get absurd numbers

[fickle tinsel]

Maybe if she got bonuses for having more targets inside of the orb, and the orb on single targets is generally weaker?

[patent lodge]

Maybe I should abuse her in arena

[raw brook]

shes op in arena for sure

maybe top tier in BR as well

[patent lodge]

In BR she still statchecks

[raw brook]

zeph is a bit better than her in arean tho

[fickle tinsel]

Eva is strong but pretty much exclusively due to her stats

[vale token]

Yeah

[rocky topaz]

Sad that Jess is Sick on Leif Erikson day :L

[raw brook]

in BR her util is where she shines

[fickle tinsel]

true

https://tenor.com/view/vikings-minnesota-minnesota-vikings-skol-mnvikings-gif-26337415

[stuck nexus]

eva is strong because teams in ranked are uncoordinated, shes strong in arena because shes balanced around trios

im the literal only eva player in the EU comp scene and the rest of my region laughs at me

she needs a power retuning, direct nerfs and this character is just unplayable

[crisp iron]

Not to hijack the conversation but I did want to bring up my distaste for Brall still having knockback on his LMB.

#1357197860579442689 message
Attached is a link to my thread with loads of takes on how bad it feels for both Brall players and people playing against him.

I think this might be one of the few things practically everyone I've spoken to about it has agreed on.

[fickle tinsel]

Something I thought about is what if her orbs healed allies near her for a portion of the damage they deal, and the single-target healing is much lower

So she's incentivized to maximize it on groups of targets

[patent lodge]

^ stuff like that is type of change she needs. Not just flat numbers buff

[stuck nexus]

take away some power from her healing on rmb and put it into her lmb healing

[raw brook]

for once i actually agree

[fickle tinsel]

I agree to some extent

[raw brook]

rmb is a resourceless heal essentially

lmb heal is limited

[vale token]

Id preffer if Eva was less all in on heals. and less all in on the orb healing.

Lmb dmg ramp would have a linger so it doesnt reset instantly.
Focus healing more on the LMB on allies since it has a mana cost.

Orbs could heal faster but also deplete faster as they heal. if they deal damage they gain hp.

[stuck nexus]

i mean

her lmb doesnt exist

[raw brook]

her lmb damage is pitiful

[vale token]

Yeah

[stuck nexus]

its just drag the orb around button

[raw brook]

and also useless because of how they made the targetting

i would prefer to have a skill shot

skill shot beam

[stuck nexus]

i have a strong emphasis on POWER RETUNING

[raw brook]

instead of the tether

it tethers onto random objects

still

[vale token]

Power returning?

[raw brook]

and disrupts how i move my orbs too

[vale token]

retuning im dumb

[surreal ivy]

Id preffer if Eva was less all in on heals
agreed insofar as there isn't a world where an all-in-on-healing character remains relevant if antiheal becomes more prevalent
also all-in on healing is just boring imo

[stuck nexus]

theorycraftgames are the goats at making characters unplayable and i fear this is happening to eva soon

[raw brook]

there are just much more elegant solutions to eva than just out right nerfing her healing

cuz like

[stuck nexus]

shes oppresive because every lobby is 1 grandmaster 2 gold players

[raw brook]

that is her entire kit outside of the ult + pull combo

[stuck nexus]

and those gold players int to her orb for fun

[raw brook]

people in scrims still fail to kill orbs first

that said the orbs are kinda weird to hit

for a lot of characters

[surreal ivy]

imo the most elegant solution is to probably have her core intent be anything other than Medic from the hit 2007 FPS Team Fortress 2

[raw brook]

champs like ghost joule and a few others really cant chew through them

[stuck nexus]

i ended up winning todays scrims on eva to be fair xd

but i stand by my statement

[raw brook]

TLD won scrims yesterday with her

[fickle tinsel]

hey medic can have more interesting gameplay than just LMB allies

[raw brook]

and have been doing well

[crisp iron]

I also thought a way to get around the inherent jankiness of her lmb tether (and the frustrations that come with being an auto-aim ability) could be to change it to a move circular zone on the ground that follows the cursor.

It would allow people to use their fancy feet more often to dodge damage, it would get rid of the janky "target-everything-but-the-thing-I-want-targeted" issue the current system has, and would give her a way to check bushes/prefire people.

Thoughts?

[fickle tinsel]

give him more credit

[surreal ivy]

he can and does, yes, but the top-level "obvious" gameplay is just being an LMB healing bot

[stuck nexus]

good, now buff felix, brall and give jin antiheal

and the meta is fine

[raw brook]

its partially due to everyone playing carbine ffiw

no anti heal

[stuck nexus]

put any damage / healing u remove from rmb into her lmb

[vale token]

Idk if adding more anti is going to solve. If anything it makes shit worse

[stuck nexus]

and the character is fine

[raw brook]

her orbs is her entire kit rn

[surreal ivy]

adding more antiheal just kicks the can down the road to be dealt with at a later point

adding more antiheal to the game without changing anything else will very likely not solve anything meaningful

[raw brook]

more power into lmb also gives her more skill expression

forces more decisions

between using my actual button or moving my orb

in the few games i played

[vale token]

I feel we been chewing the exact same thing for like 10 mins straight now

[raw brook]

i found maybe a handful of situations where i want to lmb something not my orb

it seems pretty universally agreed :)

[surreal ivy]

it's how these discussions often go

[rocky topaz]

TBH there is also an important thing, are we proposing changes to make the game more balanced/"Make my character better" or make the character more fun, cause I personally fine Eva's style extremely fun to play, I like focusing on something that aint just my LMB

[raw brook]

her rmb is her entire kit tho

[patent lodge]

Well the thing with fun is it is subjective right. Some people find that playstyle fun while other's find watching paint dry more interesting

[raw brook]

and their current power levle combined with how jank they are

make for a pretty not enjoyable experience

[patent lodge]

When it comes to balanced, it can become a little more grounded. I think the conversation is around that and not how fun it is to play

[vale token]

power away from RMB.

Distribute the power to the rest of the kit.

Also My main complaint with Hudson for the last half a year

[raw brook]

in no world should i be having the thought

hmmi want to full tank jin combo

to see if it even comes close to killing me

and the answer was no

he nearly died

[vale token]

yeah

[raw brook]

after full comboing me off dagger

👍

that said besides eva, the nerfs on some characters have hit the mark on theri power level

imo

myth is still very very top tier due to her overtuned lmb and rain having 0 down time(would rather have seen down time nerf rather than damage down - just feels bad for the myth player while also not addressing part of the issue). oath seems actually mroe in line now that he isnt just the fastest character. brall nerfs were actually done pretty good.

[patent lodge]

I think it comes down to how damage is so valeud in Vive.

Protectors best way to protect? Kill the enemy.

Bast way for Oath/Felix to tank? Do damage to either eliminate damage coming your way or vamp off of it (felix).

Can't build helms? Damage is so valuable you can't sacrifice it elsewise

[raw brook]

beebo bomb nerf + bomb bug is kinda killing him

[patent lodge]

That my take at least

[raw brook]

the bug is prob bigger than the damage nerf

thats just character breaking

joule also has one of those rn

hopefully those will be addressed next patch

[rocky topaz]

I also have a hot take, I hate that damage is so important

[patent lodge]

^ agree @rocky topaz

[raw brook]

also i think a lot of balancing atm will be pretty pointless if shift on knock system is every tuned

i personally would like to see that system removed all together cuz it makes combat mroe unclear, more one sided, and clutches way less interesting. yes it helps 1vX, but more often than not it helps me or the aggressor snowball off picks. if it was to exist as a system, attaching it to being last alive, a forced 1vX situation where you need help, is significantly better way to implement it

theres a lot of characters that were in ok spots that became immediately overtuned with the addition of system

[vale token]

What id want from Eva

Lmb bug fixes (reliability)
Lmb dmg ramp should linger and not dissapear on disconnect.
This way extended fights against eva in close range arent good for your health. Its like if you let an Elluna moon burn you.

Less heal and damage on orb. Could make it maybe amplify healing from LMB and amp its damage (does this dmg one already)
Orb hp could heal more when dealing damage loose more hp when allies get healed inside it. slides around more.
Make it so orbs are an amplifier to what you want to do. And since they slide you can pre throw the orb. attach to an ally with lmb and heal them quick OR throw orb at enemy. attach lmb and start draining them.

Now that orb is weaker you can make her Shift more interesting.

[raw brook]

and some of those characters have paid for being overtuned in the system leading to a worse feeling when you play them and further incentivizes doingdamage to get knocks

[blazing pecan]

This conversation about damage is reminding me of a good item that could be in game: A Helmet that gives you hp and a % of omnivamp stat so it can be a self-sustain defensive option that works from dealing damage. Maybe call it a "Vampiric Helmet" of sorts

[vale token]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-say-that-say-that-agian-marvel-fantastic-gif-12441585058103544841

Though sadly vamp helm would be so bad with the abundance of anti heal 😭

[blazing pecan]

I just want to be reunited with her again even if it was for One Time.

[vale token]

Maybe one day

[stuck nexus]

would love to hear about evas powerlevel from dev POV

[vale token]

they probably in game rn testing something

[rocky topaz]

Ye

[vale token]

Praying they testing hudson rework rn

[rocky topaz]

And I would love a vamp helm

But players would be sheep and just run damage

[blazing pecan]

omg Same...........

[crisp iron]

Jess has her work cut out for her catching up on this conversation lol

she getting paid to play games and read essays today

[vale token]

It kinda boils down to "Eva unhealthy, Rmb heals much"

[rocky topaz]

I think she's just gunna make a new chat

[vale token]

Just ignore us lmao

[crisp iron]

oh uhh

time to copy/paste the whole conversation to a google doc and link it in the new chat

stonks

[stuck nexus]

evas current state is unhealthy for a game that limits ranked to soloque and puts 2 unexperienced players on every team

she is extremely healthy for competitive scene tho

[raw brook]

speak of the devil

[stuck nexus]

i started playing her because shes the best option against all the oath comps in my eyes

[raw brook]

copy paste it lads

[grim cloak]

Lol. I have to do a lot more than that today.

Here's the new megathread: https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1367999327405871194.