#darko-identity
odd gust
still thinking on this, just wanted to update you
I'm not the most familiar with Identity but give me a bit to think
vast wharf
Thanks!
arctic thistle
👋 @vast wharf I'm stepping in for @odd gust since they needed to leave
Just thinking out loud for a bit, I wonder if you could leverage document.number (see https://stripe.com/docs/api/identity/verification_reports/object#identity_verification_report_object-document-number) from the verification report
Still mulling this over...
vast wharf
Hmm perhaps. We were thinking of combining Name + DOB, but document number sounds OK-ish too. Although I'd rather we don't store this on our side.
worn heron
Hey @odd gust - I'm Darko's less clever colleague. The problem with document number is without including last 4 and/or dob, it's easily exploited
I can create two different root identities with the same document number, and stripe treats them uniquely
cc @arctic thistle
vast wharf
(And @worn heron is stepping in as I need to leave now :))
arctic thistle
Oh my gosh, so sorry I had an answer typed out and forgot to press send
I got a quick update - apparently, the identity team is currently working on a feature that would check for selfie duplication detection to combat the exact problem your trying to address (to prevent the same scanner from combing back again)
There's no set timeline on it yet, but it is on their roadmap
worn heron
Hey there, no worries! Actually we aren't using selfies, just ID's. It appears regardless what full name we pass over or what email address someone uses, they can create multiple "root identities" on Stripe as they like. So we aren't sure how we will be able to identify dupes unless we pull over a lot of sensitive data for each person (which as @vast wharf mentioned, we would prefer not to do).
cc @arctic thistle
exotic swallow
Hey I am taking up this thread, sorry I missed your last message
One moment as I catch up a bit
worn heron
All good @exotic swallow - Thanks!
arctic thistle
@worn heron Sorry I need to hop off - just leaving some last thoughts before I leave:
Yeah I can imagine storing all that sensitive information for each person isn't great.... If you're using the Verification Session to verify the id_number (to verify their DOB, name, and number), the only think I can think of is that you store the verification report ID for anyone you deem to be a scammer, and you re-retrieve those verification reports when you come across new folks you believe to be scammers. That seems like it would result in a lot of API requests to retrieve the verification information, but at least you wouldn't be storeing the information in your DBs?
worn heron
Hmm @arctic thistle @exotic swallow I guess the issue with that though, is that we would then have to essentially treat everyone guilty until the verification report proves them innocent - which means pulling all this data over to our end (ID, DOB, last 4).
Just to clarify, what you guys are saying is that there is no way to disallow someone to create an unlimited number of root identities, if all those identities are the same person? In this case, the ID isn't unique as someone could have multiple drivers licenses and even a passport, it's really the trinity between dob, legal name, and last 4?
fossil bane
Hello! Both @arctic thistle and @exotic swallow aren't available right now, but I'd be happy to help! Let me get caught up...
Just to clarify, what you guys are saying is that there is no way to disallow someone to create an unlimited number of root identities, if all those identities are the same person?
Unfortunately yes, that's correct. We don't generate any kind of unique "person" identifier each time Identity verifies someone, so multiple verification sessions can't really be linked together that way. The closest you could get, as far as I know, is storing/comparing the verified_outputs you get back after you get the results: https://stripe.com/docs/identity/verification-sessions#results
Do you anticipate scammers going through the effort of verifying their identity multiple times? It seems like a lot of friction for them on their end.
worn heron
Sure they will. They can sign up under whatever name they like, and then come to Stripe to verify their ID. They will have to do this in order to take part in the site.
Sidebar: we are a two-sided marketplace, think uber for deliveries.
So if we determine an account is a scammer (eg: they take money without performing a service) we can ban their account.
But, all that means is that they have to sign up to a new account, and re-verify with Stripe. The only way it seems we have to combat this is by storing the privileged data at the point of creation, which means every time someone signs up we are having to do diff's essentially to compare every new Stripe identity output with a segment of identities that we've flagged as being scammers.
Which means we store a ton of pii, and it also means until we build this capability we are back to playing whack-a-mole.
Make sense @fossil bane ?
worn heron
Any ideas @fossil bane ?
fossil bane
Yep, sorry for the delay. I asked the Identity team about this and they confirmed it's not a feature we currently have, but it is something they're considering for the future.
Their recommendation at this time is to store a hash of the name + date of birth and compare those hashes rather than the raw data.
Their other suggestion was to check the document number to see if they're reusing the same document for verification: https://stripe.com/docs/api/identity/verification_reports/object#identity_verification_report_object-document-number
worn heron
Would we be able to easily hash the above + last 4? That seems to be the best way to ensure uniqueness no?
fossil bane
Yeah, that could work.
worn heron
Ok, we will get that a try. I do hope you guys take this on board, the inability to block dupes really limits the reach of what identity can do.
fossil bane
Yep, the team is working on it! 🙂