#Yassin

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

silk drumBOT
stark oriole
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If that doesn't seem to be what you're looking for, then could you elaborate on the question you're trying to ask or problem you're trying to solve?

dapper bane
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hi toby i am still looking through quickly ... is there a limit on the number of connected accounts or the amounts ? in our case the amounts are potentially different

stark oriole
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There is not a limit to the number of Transfers that you can create. If you're using the source_transaction parameter when creating those Transfers, then the total amount for all Transfers you create can't exceed the amount of the Charge that you're using as the source_transaction.

If you're not using that parameter then you can transfer up to the current available balance of the Platform.

dapper bane
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what about the amounts ? do they have to be the same ? the api seems like its all one amount ?

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basically the client wants to make multiple invoice payments but not go though the please confirm page for each target

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they want to review all the payments in one page then click pay

stark oriole
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I'm no longer sure I understand the scenario that you're trying to accomplish. Could you articulate what the flow you're trying to build is?

dapper bane
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my apologies for not being clear !

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The client has many subcontractors ... and those subcontractors have employees

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after each week the client wants to make payments to these subcontractors .. and those subcontractors want to do the same with their employees

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we want to make all the calculations for the client and show it in one page ...

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when the client clicks pay they authorise payments for all subcontractors ... they dont want to be automated for now they want to review it

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does this help ?

stark oriole
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Sorry, I don't think it did, but I'll continue to answer questions as best as I can.

stark oriole
dapper bane
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great !

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btw this is my first time working with stripe so a lot of this is me being a newb with your platform ...

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so the most critical part for now is the client wants to authorise the multiple outgoing payments in one shot .. with outgoing multiple amounts and multiple receiveing accounts

stark oriole
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The way that works, is the client would accept a single payment into their Platform, and then create Transfers to disburse those funds amongst their Connected accounts.

dapper bane
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my aasumption is during the authorisation phase they will be redirected to your checkout page .. they are asking if they have to do the checkout page for each and every transaction

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sorry again ... for not being clear ..

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lemme start over ...

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we are building a web app for a client

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the client has subcontractors and subcontractors have employees

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the app is meant to calculate all the invoices and bookkeeping that are due to the contractors and show it to the client on a weekly basis

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the client then weekly makes those multiple payments authorised and payed out

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the same goes for the subcontractors and their employees ... all see those invoices and payments via the app we are building

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does this make it a bit more clear first of all ?

stark oriole
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These invoices that you're referring to, are they Stripe Invoices, or are they invoices on your end?

dapper bane
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they are invoices generated by the app for each "user" of the app

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we are integrating stripe because we want to use it as means to make out those payments

stark oriole
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Okay, so removing the non-Stripe portions of your scenario, it sounds like what you want to do with Stripe is accept a single payment and then disburse the funds from that amongst multiple parties, does that sound right?

dapper bane
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yes from the point of view of the subcontractor ... but lets fix that maybe first

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once i know how that works i can extrapolate for the top user the client who only makes outgoing payments for now

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or i should say how money makes into the account is not important now .. how to make outgoing payments is more important for now

stark oriole
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Stripe is more suited for accepting payments than it is for just making outbound payments.

dapper bane
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ok lets work from that angle then

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what do you think would work ?

stark oriole
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If we pivot to a scenario where we're thinking about a payment being accepted, who would be the party accepting the payment?

dapper bane
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the subcontractors and the employees ...

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but the whole premiss of this conendrum is the sending party wants to have some level of control on who and when those accounts receive their money i hope we can satisfy that requirement

stark oriole
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That won't work then if there are multiple subcontractors involved. A single payment must go to a single Stripe account, if that Stripe account is using Connect and is a Platform it can then choose to create Transfers to move those funds to their Connected accounts.

It sounds to me like you're trying to build a payroll system, rather than accepting payments.

A limitation that you're likely going to run into if you're trying to control two levels down (subscontractors and then their employees) is that Connect does not support that. Connect only permits Platforms to interact one-level down with their Connected Accounts.

If Platform A is the platform for Connected Account B, and Connected Account B is also the platform for Connected Account C, then Platform A is not able to interact with Connected Account C.

dapper bane
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sorry tbc we only need one level of control from your API ...

stark oriole
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So what you could do with Stripe, is set up a Platform account for your client. Then you could create a Connected Account for each of their subscontractors and onboard those accounts.

Your client's Platform can then create Transfer objects to move funds from it's Stripe account balance to the Stripe account balance of their Connected accounts. The funds that accumulate in those Connected accounts will then be paid out to their corresponding bank accounts based on their Payout schedule.

dapper bane
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great !

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but as you said we are actually building a payroll system ...

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does the payer account needs to go though multiple stripe checkout in this scenario ?

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and can they stop those payments before it gets trasfered ?

stark oriole
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There is no payer account in this scenario. In Stripe, the parties that are making payments are referred to as Customers. So your client would end up with a Stripe account, and would also be the customer, resulting in a scenario where they need to pay themselves. If the flow you build only processes a single payment, then they will only need to complete a single Checkout Session.

If you're disbursing funds to multiple Connected accounts, then you'll need to use Separate Charges and Transfers to accomplish that. Using that flow separates the payment and transfer process. Your code will need to explicitly create the Transfers that it wants to occur, so you have control over when those Transfers get created.

Depending on the location of your client's account, they may be able to move funds directly into their Stripe account rather than making a payment:
https://stripe.com/docs/connect/top-ups

While a lot of this is technically possible, I don't know if it is a scenario that falls within our terms and conditions. For this reason I would strongly recommend that you reach out to our Support team with a clear explanation of the business use case that you're handling to ensure that it is permitted.
https://support.stripe.com/?contact=true

dapper bane
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We will definitely will do that ! FTR all our client / subcontractors and employees are all Canada based ! But i am curious what makes you think that what we are thinking of doing would not be permitted ? maybe i am missing something ?

stark oriole
dapper bane
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Its a payroll system .. i am surprised. No one has built a payroll system on stripe (yet) ?

stark oriole
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I haven't heard of it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

dapper bane
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so if those accounts had automatic payments methods would that be an alternative ?

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meaning automatically receive money assuming we have some controls from your APIs to setup those payments

woeful granite
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👋 I'm hopping in since @stark oriole has to head out soon

dapper bane
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no issue

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i hope you can catch up with us 🙂

woeful granite
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Can you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by automatic payment methods? In your scenario, who is the platform, and how has the connected accounts?

dapper bane
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before that i will give you a tl;dr for what we discussed .. 🙂

woeful granite
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sounds good 👍

dapper bane
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  1. we are trying to build a payroll system
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  1. we want the payer to use checkout
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  1. we want the payer to make different amounts to multiple payees in one checkout
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  1. we want the payer to not do checkout for each transaction
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i hope that summarises it ! .. i am getting better at explaining this .. i think 🙂

woeful granite
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Gotcha - so what's the current problem you're working through?

dapper bane
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i m getting the feeling that this is not something you support ... i am new to to stripe .. and i have to say i was not expecting this would be a problem

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i am editing the above requirements for our app as we go. but that is the problem we are trying to solve basically

woeful granite
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2-4 aren't an issue (those are core payments flows that we support very well) - the only question mark is how to implement the payroll specific part. This should be relatively straightforward if the subcontractor was a platform account, and each of their employees had a connected account (to facilitate the payouts)

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But as toby mentioned earlier, you'll definitely want to check in with support to see if there are any specific compliance pitfalls

dapper bane
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We can definitely make sure all involved parties have connected accounts

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would that be enough .. technically ? I already fired an email to the person working with our account for compliance purposes

woeful granite
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Yes, I believe that should be enough (at least from an integration standpoint)

dapper bane
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so to recap the payer will be able to make one checkout that basically makes all those payments happen ?

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for the record we dont need the payments to be made right away we just want the authorisation to go through at checkout time

woeful granite
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The payer will pay the subcontractor (which is platform), and that payment can be split amongst the balance of the subcontractor and their employees (which are separate connect accounts). The payouts would have to be made separately (depending on the payout schedule you set up they would either happen automatically at some regular cadence, or you'd create them manually through the Api or dashboard)

dapper bane
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if this was not clear the user does not want to make 20 checkouts for all their employees .. just to make that clear 🙂

woeful granite
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So yeah, to be more specific - a client could make a single payment to the subcontractor, the subcontractor would use the API to transfer whatever portion they want to each of their employees, and those funds would eventually be paid out

dapper bane
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ok lemme add more details ... we dont have a third party using your API to make those second level payments

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its all drive by one app .. the one we are building ..

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so weekly the client would make payments to subcontractors .. by going to the ui and authorising those payments to be made ..

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the subcontracor also has to login to the same app and authorise those sub payments to be made from their account

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nothing is automated ... every payouts needs a real person to login and make those payments for now

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does this help ?

woeful granite
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If that's how you plan on implementing your app, then your subcontractor would have to make 20 separate authorizations to send the funds to each of their employees - there isn't any way around that

dapper bane
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ouch !

woeful granite
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Just to double check thought - what were you hoping for instead? I'm feeling like there's something I'm missing about your use case/what you're trying to accomplish because I'm not sure how you would get the behavior you need if you need a real person to login and authorize each payout to an employee.

dapper bane
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the system we are building is to ease payroll and bookkeeping for a construction company

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the client for who we are building the system gets the upstream amounts .. and hire subcontractors to do their work

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the subcontractors hire employees to do the final work

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its a pain for them now because they do it in excel

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they stil lwant control however to authorise those payments and review them

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they just dont want to do it 20 to 100 times as they are doing it now

woeful granite
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Ah, so then what you'll want to do is make your app do multiple transfers/payouts. So your user would do a single authorization, and your call the API multiple times in order to do all the transfers/payotus that are necessary.

dapper bane
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thats what i want to hear 🙂

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does this mean we will not be using checkout ?

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we are trying to be security concious and not have credentials on our backend for security purposes

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so if we can all of this without calling APIs (and only using checkout) its perfect ..

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if not we have to make sure we add more security in our back end .. not that its bad .. its just one more thing we need to do

woeful granite
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You still need Checkout to accept the initial payments from the client. but all the rest of the connect pieces (the transfers, payouts) should be able to be done server-side. The only other piece that can't be done server-side is the connect onboarding process for new accounts, but that's a completely separate flow from your funds flow

dapper bane
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yeah onboarding is a separate discussion we are not worried about it now

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so what do we need to have server side ? if we get some form of ref ID from the checkout page and then we use that to make further transfers that would be awesome

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is there an example we can use in your docs ?

woeful granite
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How much of our connect documentation have you read through alreadY/

dapper bane
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to be frank not much !

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this is my first time in this discord server .. because we were not sure we could do what we want with stripe

woeful granite
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^^ There's a lot of information here about the funds flows and all the moving parts, and I've also included a Checkout specific link that will make more sense once you understand the fund flows

dapper bane
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great ,,, thank you !

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if you also have references for doing what we are doing from a serverless platform and what to be careful and watch out for about in terms of security that would be awesome !

woeful granite
dapper bane
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great .. i will make sure i go through these . Thank you so much for your help !

woeful granite
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👍 hope if goes well!

dapper bane
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Thank you i will stay in touch here ...

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Do you happen to know if stripe has done any (canadian) taxes for employees calculations ? #day-dreaming

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we have to make those and debit them directly from employees

woeful granite
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We typically archive these threads after an hour of inactivity, but if you have follow-up questions after the thread has been archived you can always ask in the main channel again

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As far as I know we only have tax reporting for US based accounts right now

dapper bane
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do you do taxes for employees in us ? or only b2c type transactions ?

woeful granite
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I don't know a ton about this (we don't handle tax reporting questions very often), but definitely read through that and see if that's what you need

dapper bane
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great !

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i wont hold you longer

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I want to say it was a pleasure to talk to you

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and than kyou so much for your help

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it was greatly appreciated

woeful granite
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i'm glad we could be helpful! 🙂