Dooing-Setup Intent | Stripe Developers | Page 1

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 12:26 PM

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👋 happy to help

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 12:26 PM

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CustomerUpdateParams updateParams = CustomerUpdateParams.builder()
.setInvoiceSettings(CustomerUpdateParams.InvoiceSettings.builder()
.setDefaultPaymentMethod(stripePaymentMethodId)
.build()).addExpand("invoice_settings.default_payment_method")
.build();
try {
return stripeCustomer.update(updateParams, requestOptions);

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--
This is code from myself, from a different app

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but it allows several cards

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now I do the same for a client, but we want to start with a single card only

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So I am wondering if I actually still need to set the card as default

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 12:28 PM

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this could work

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but there are better ways to integrate

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I'll explain myself

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just give me a sec

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 12:30 PM

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Well my question actually was - How exactly is the flow - 1) I create a stripe customer. 2) The frontend somehow sends the credit card details to stripe and I think receivea a payment Id, right? Then I send a setup intent with the customer id and the payment id and get a client secret returned to confirm this.. I guess? But then... I would expect that customer and card are already connected? Or is there a need to further connect them and is there a need to set the one card as default?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 12:35 PM

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the really best way of achieving what you're looking for is the following:
1- create a customer
2- create a subscription for that customer with a payment_settings.save_default_payment_method https://stripe.com/docs/api/subscriptions/create#create_subscription-payment_settings-save_default_payment_method set to on_subscription and expand https://stripe.com/docs/api/expanding_objects on latest_invoice.payment_intent and use the
3- send the client_secret from latest_invoice.payment_intent to the front-end
4- use it with Payment Elements and boom everything will work like magic 🙂

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this is better because the user wouldn't have to SCA twice

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and the customer would be able to see what amount their authorizing

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one last thing to note, if a 100% coupon was applied or a free trial resulting in the 1st invoice to be 0 then instead of using latest_invoice.payment_intent.client_secret you'd have to use the pending_setup_intent.client_secret (and you'd have to also expand on pending_setup_intent to get that client_secret)

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 12:39 PM

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and the customer would be able to see what amount their authorizing

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oh

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that was something I did notice

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it always says 0

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that was a bit confusing indeed

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--

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use it with Payment Elements and boom everything will work like magic

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what?

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--
Would you do 1-4 in one go alltogether.. or first the customer.. and then with a new request from the frontend.. the subscription and card??

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 12:43 PM

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use it with Payment Elements and boom everything will work like magic
I mean that this will create the payment method, attach it to the customer, add it as the default_payment_method to that subscription

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Would you do 1-4 in one go alltogether.. or first the customer..
it's up to you

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1 is really not necessary to be at the same time as everything else

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you might already have a customer created

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so it's up to you to decide

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 12:53 PM

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2- create a subscription for that customer with a payment_settings.save_default_payment_method https://stripe.com/docs/api/subscriptions/create#create_subscription-payment_settings-save_default_payment_method set to on_subscription and expand https://stripe.com/docs/api/expanding_objects on latest_invoice.payment_intent and use the
3- send the client_secret from latest_invoice.payment_intent to the front-end

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This I dont really get yet.

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SubscriptionCreateParams.Builder builder = SubscriptionCreateParams.builder()
.addItem(SubscriptionCreateParams.Item.builder()
.setPrice(stripePriceId)
.build())
.setCustomer(stripeCustomerId)
.setTrialEnd(endOfTrialTimestamp)
.addExpand("payment_settings.save_default_payment_method");
return Subscription.create(builder.build(), requestOptions).getId();

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So I added the expand

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how / where to add / get the card now?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 12:55 PM

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oh wait

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.addExpand("payment_settings.save_default_payment_method"); this is wrong

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just give me a second

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If you wait like 10min I could try to share some working code with you

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 1:02 PM

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Ok I need to run.. I logged into my phone nbut cannot direclt ymesage you there

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either somehow send it there or just put it here and I will see your code when back

livid obsidian Aug 17, 2022, 1:04 PM

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Ah here

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 1:04 PM

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yes sure

livid obsidian Aug 17, 2022, 1:16 PM

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Still waiting

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 1:18 PM

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          .addItem(
              SubscriptionCreateParams.Item.builder()
                  .setPrice(stripePriceId)
                  .build())
          .setCustomer(stripeCustomerId)
          .setTrialEnd(endOfTrialTimestamp)
          .setPaymentSettings(
            SubscriptionCreateParams.PaymentSettings.builder()
            .setSaveDefaultPaymentMethod(
              SubscriptionCreateParams.PaymentSettings.SaveDefaultPaymentMethod.ON_SUBSCRIPTION)
              .build())
          .addExpand("latest_invoice.payment_intent")        
          .build();```

livid obsidian Aug 17, 2022, 1:26 PM

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Thanks

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And I assume this will return me a secret for the frontend?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 1:27 PM

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you'd have to do that yourself

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that would create the subscription for you

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      SubscriptionCreateParams subCreateParams = SubscriptionCreateParams.builder()
          .addItem(
              SubscriptionCreateParams.Item.builder()
                  .setPrice(stripePriceId)
                  .build())
          .setCustomer(stripeCustomerId)
          .setTrialEnd(endOfTrialTimestamp)
          .setPaymentSettings(
              SubscriptionCreateParams.PaymentSettings.builder()
                  .setSaveDefaultPaymentMethod(
                      SubscriptionCreateParams.PaymentSettings.SaveDefaultPaymentMethod.ON_SUBSCRIPTION)
                  .build())
          .addExpand("latest_invoice.payment_intent")
          .build();
      Subscription sub = Subscription.create(subCreateParams);
      String clientSecret  = sub.getLatestInvoiceObject().getPaymentIntentObject().getClientSecret();```

livid obsidian Aug 17, 2022, 1:42 PM

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So how's the flow now I create the payment card first and in step two I create the subscription and attach the payment method to it I guess?

leaden zephyr Aug 17, 2022, 1:46 PM

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👋 stepping in as tarzan had to step away

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As far as I can gather from the recent messages, you'd pass this clientSecret to your client-side code and use Stripe.js/elements to collect a payment method.

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If you're already using SetupIntents and setting up payment methods prior to creating subscriptions, you don't need to collect the payment method again

livid obsidian Aug 17, 2022, 2:01 PM

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So does this mean that the payment method would be added last? Wouldn't the subscription then already start before the payment is finalized?

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I mean...assuming that the user is 15 minutes inactive... It would mean that the first subscription period would actually be shorter?!

leaden zephyr Aug 17, 2022, 2:03 PM

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Subscription would be created before payment is processed, yes. But you can set payment_behavior to default_incomplete while creating the sub to not let it transition to active state
https://stripe.com/docs/api/subscriptions/create#create_subscription-payment_behavior

livid obsidian Aug 17, 2022, 2:14 PM

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And then how do I transition it to active later?

leaden zephyr Aug 17, 2022, 2:15 PM

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once the latest invoice/first invoice is paid, it will transition to active

livid obsidian Aug 17, 2022, 2:16 PM

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How will it be paid..by adding the credit card I assume? Is that a matter of seconds or could it also happen days later?

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And...I assume there is no difference with a trial added upfront?

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I want the trial to start exactly when the customer hits "pay now"

leaden zephyr Aug 17, 2022, 2:18 PM

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if you have a trial, then first invoice will be $0 and the subscription will transition to 'active' immediately as there isn't a payment required

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 2:19 PM

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My question is - I want the customer to add his credit card details, I send this to stripe, and only when all is together I want the first trial or not trial subscription cycle to start - and not earlier.

leaden zephyr Aug 17, 2022, 2:21 PM

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Then you can use the SetupIntents first to collect the payment method, set it as default payment method on the customer and create a subscription when customer hits 'pay now'

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 2:22 PM

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hmmmm... but thats what I had above 😦

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Your colleague told me it was not good / not practical

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the only issue I currently see that indeed the payment with 3D secure is shown as "0"

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And for the setupIntent.. I create a client secret, send this to the UI, the UI sends the credit card etails with this secret, I assume. The UI then gets back the stripe payment ID I think - and I send this payment Id and set it as default, right? Does it need to be set as default.. if there is just one card anyway???

pastel ermine Aug 17, 2022, 2:27 PM

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Hello, hanzo had to step out but I can help out now. I think tarzan wasn't considering the trial aspect here. Collecting CC info with a SeutpIntent and then setting up a subscription with that payment method is a totally valid way to go

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And yes you do need to set the payment method as the default on either the subscription or the customer, otherwise it will not automatically be used for the renewal payments

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 2:28 PM

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and how do I fix that for the payment in 3D secure it just shows "0,00"

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So to fully clarify - the flow is this - I set up a client. The frontend somehow creates a credit card in stripe, and send the backend the payment method ID. The backend creates a payment method intent with this payment method, and returns back the client secret, which the frontend will use for confirmation to stripe, right?Then, when the customer pressed the pay now button I create a subscription and attach the paymen id to it as default payment method

pastel ermine Aug 17, 2022, 2:38 PM

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I may not have read this thread closely enough, are you looking to charge for the full month upfront?

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Or are you looking to avoid 0,00 auth charges entirely?

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 2:46 PM

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I dont want start the subscription too early

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Payment and start of subscription should be 100% in sync. I did some testing last time I worked on this and found out, that, for instance, for a very expensive subscription, and a customer that is gone for 15 minutes.. when the flow is wrong.. there could be a substantial amount of money already gone... and this can be extra confusing when switching the subscription and some money is given back.. then what I show in the UI does not even match watch wil actually be charged

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now I am setting this up again for a customer of me

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and I currently dont have access to the frontend code and a bit confused of in which order I should call / use the methods

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Hellooo?

pastel ermine Aug 17, 2022, 3:03 PM

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Apologies server got pretty busy. I will be back here in a minute, need to pull in a colleague to help with volume

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I am a bit unclear on how the amount of money is changing based on that 15 minutes. Are you updating and prorating the subscription when they try to pay again later?

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Can you walk me through what you want this signup to look like step by step? I think I am having trouble picturing the end goal

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:21 PM

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I want to create a customer and stripe, add a credit card, start a subscription and when all is ready, I want to start the subscription trial when t he customer presses BUY now - exactly then.

I am just setting this up a-new for a new client of mine.

For myself, I did this 2 years ago, so I still see my old backend code and have some knowledge... but forgot how exactly the flow was.. and since I cant check the frontend code atm as I my frontend dev is unvailable.. I have some confusion on my end.

My assumption is that, I first create a stripe customer.
Second, it seems the frontend sends the credit card details to stripe with the react api.
THird, it seems stripe retuns the stripe credit card ID back to the frontend
4. The frontend sends the stripe customer id and the stripe payment id to the backend, and it creates a setup intent and returns a client seecret for the frontend.
5. The frontend sends this s ecret to stripe, and as such confirms creating the credit card for this account with the given public key plus secret.

The frontend tells the backend to start a subscription for the given customer with a trial.
This will start the subscription cycle just NOW and not earlier.

Is that correct?
Is see also a method to create a payment method as well from the backend... but I assume this is not needed for the initial setup, just to add further credit cards? But I might be wrong.

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So who technically creates the payment card with stripe, the first initial one. The frontend, or the backend? It seems the frontent with the secret received from the backend

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:28 PM

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👋 taking over for my colleague. Let me catch up.

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a lot happened since our conversation earlier

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I think it's best to talk about how you should provision your subscription from your end this would clear the discussions about the real "start" of the subscription

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for what it's worth, I'm sticking with the workflow I suggested to you earlier

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if there's trial or 100% coupon use pending_setup_intent.client_secret and if not latest_invoice.payment_intent.client_secret to gather the user's payment method

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:31 PM

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The workflow you suggested earlier will not work because of the trial.. your colleague(s) said

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:32 PM

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I promise you we will get there, just bear with me for a couple more minutes

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I understand your scenario

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:32 PM

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wait.. before we dive into the details.. it would help me - what is or what should be the flow of events with
both frontend and backedn talkig to stripe and the 3D secure flow with a setup intent in place

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:33 PM

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it's not as uncommon as you might think

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I will go over all of that I promise

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:33 PM

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We need a stripe customer, credit card, and subsription, in the end, and the subscription started in the very end

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so that the customer is not overcharged even a cent

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:33 PM

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no worries

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I'm on board with all of this

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before we dive a bit deeper into the workflow that I wanted to present to you, a quick question, have you considered using Checkout? I'll tell you why in a sec. Or do you really need the whole "checkout" process to be within your app and custom tailored?

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:36 PM

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yes I need it custom tailored

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you are just delaying things and giving me a hard time atm 😦

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Dooing
—
Today at 2:25 PM

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:37 PM

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ok we would have avoided a loooooot of trouble if you had answered "Checkout is something I might consider"

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:37 PM

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started this

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"Checkout is something I might consider

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:37 PM

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you are just delaying things and giving me a hard time atm 😦
sorry?

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:37 PM

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I said - no

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I dont want the stripe UI

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:37 PM

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why are you suddenly using a different tone with me

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:37 PM

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well I am here for 3 hours now

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and now instead of going straight forward you ask me if I want to use a completly different approach

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:38 PM

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there's nothing wrong in considering different approaches

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:39 PM

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spiral forge well I am here for 3 hours now

I understand your frustration but that's no reason to be rude

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I will get you there I asked you earlier to bear with me and I will get you there

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you just need to be a little bit more patient and trust that we will give you the help that you need, and part of that help is to ask you to consider other approaches that might be more suitable to your use case. But I agree the decision is still yours at the end of the day and will give you the information needed

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so let me get back on track

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1- create a customer (Backend)
2- create a subscription for that customer with a payment_settings.save_default_payment_method https://stripe.com/docs/api/subscriptions/create#create_subscription-payment_settings-save_default_payment_method set to on_subscription and expand https://stripe.com/docs/api/expanding_objects on pending_setup_intent (also Backend)
3- send the client_secret from pending_setup_intent to the front-end
4- use it with Payment Elements (Frontend) to collect the payment method

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:42 PM

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I am not rude, or I did not intend to be rude

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:43 PM

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that's the workflow I proposed to you this morning

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:43 PM

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I am really frustrated, yes. because I think we are going in many many circles. I think I gave a very clear expalantaion of what I am trying to do

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:44 PM

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I hear you but you need to trust the process. I'm getting you there I promise, let's focus on the issue at hand

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so once you do those steps now it's up for the provisioning

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how you "start" your subscription from your side

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which is the tricky part where you clearly stated that you don't want your customer to "start" their free trial before they provide their payment details

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:47 PM

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But the setup intent - it seems it needs the payment method id already:
SetupIntentCreateParams setupIntentCreateParams = SetupIntentCreateParams.builder()
.setCustomer(stripeCustomerId)
.setPaymentMethod(stripePaymentMethodId)
.setUsage(SetupIntentCreateParams.Usage.OFF_SESSION)

So that tells me I have to create the payment method in stripe BEFORE doing the setup intent???

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:47 PM

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No you don't have to create a SetupIntent

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when you create a subscription with a free trial or a 100%-off coupon the subscription will have a pending_setup_intent

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this is the one you should be using instead of creating a new one

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:49 PM

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what if there is no trial? Could be dynamic with, and without

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:49 PM

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I also covered this earlier

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you would be using latest_invoice.payment_intent

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both of these have a client_secret that you could pass to your front-end code

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and use with our Stripe Elements

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:50 PM

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SubscriptionCreateParams subCreateParams = SubscriptionCreateParams.builder()
.addItem(
SubscriptionCreateParams.Item.builder()
.setPrice(stripePriceId)
.build())
.setCustomer(stripeCustomerId)
.setTrialEnd(endOfTrialTimestamp)
.setPaymentSettings(
SubscriptionCreateParams.PaymentSettings.builder()
.setSaveDefaultPaymentMethod(
SubscriptionCreateParams.PaymentSettings.SaveDefaultPaymentMethod.ON_SUBSCRIPTION)
.build())
.addExpand("latest_invoice.payment_intent")
.build();
Subscription sub = Subscription.create(subCreateParams);
String clientSecret = sub.getLatestInvoiceObject().getPaymentIntentObject().getClientSecret();

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this is what you had

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:50 PM

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either to confirmPayment or confirmSetup depending on the case

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:50 PM

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confirm payment when no trial, and conform setup with trial, from the frontend?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:50 PM

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spiral forge SubscriptionCreateParams subCreateParams = SubscriptionCreateParams.builder() ...

this code is true when there's no trial

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:50 PM

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spiral forge confirm payment when no trial, and conform setup with trial, from the frontend?

true

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:51 PM

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so something like -

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if(NO trial){}
.addExpand("latest_invoice.payment_intent")
} else {
.addExpand("pending_setup_intent.payment_intent")
}

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:51 PM

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you can add both expands actually

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actually it is .addExpand("pending_setup_intent")

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pending_setup_intent is the id of the created setup intent

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:52 PM

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so just always, statically:

     .addExpand("latest_invoice.payment_intent")
      .addExpand("pending_setup_intent")

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:52 PM

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exactly

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the tricky part would be after that

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:53 PM

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and then without trial -
sub.getLatestInvoiceObject().getPaymentIntentObject().getClientSecret();

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and with trial?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:53 PM

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sub.getPendingSetupIntentObject().getClientSecret();

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:54 PM

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ok so I get a secret back... and I send this to the frontend.

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and then what does the frontend do - create and attach the credit card on its own?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:54 PM

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what you can do instead of doing an if statement on the "trial" or not is to check whether sub.getPendingSetupIntent() is Empty

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:54 PM

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or do I also have to create the card in the backend somehow?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:54 PM

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spiral forge and then what does the frontend do - create and attach the credit card on its ow...

true

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if you're using the Payment or the Card Elements

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with the client secret

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https://stripe.com/docs/js/element/payment_element

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https://stripe.com/docs/payments/payment-element

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:56 PM

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so the flow will be then:

create the customer
Create the subscription and ask for the secret with or without trial
Send the secret to the frontend.
the frontend asks for the credit card details
the frontend calls confirmPayment (no trial) or confirmSetup (trial).

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but then how does the backend get the credit card details also???

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I mean last 4 digits and expiry date

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:56 PM

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so your API response should look something like:

{
  action: "setup" | "payment",
  client_secret: "..."
}

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:56 PM

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spiral forge but then how does the backend get the credit card details also???

that's the magic of Payment Elements

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you don't have to worry about this

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I really suggest you take a look at this https://stripe.com/docs/payments/payment-element

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 3:57 PM

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well I want to know in the backend if a credit card exists already, or not.. if a new one is added later

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:57 PM

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do you mean for another subscription?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 3:58 PM

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spiral forge well I want to know in the backend if a credit card exists already, or not.. if ...

I don't really see the use case

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could you please elaborate?

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actually do you minding holding on to this idea, we'll circle back to it later on. I promise

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we're just half-way through the workflow and I don't want us to be lost mid-way

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:00 PM

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wait... that payment element.. is that a stripe UI instead of the custom UI?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:00 PM

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what do you mean by custom UI?

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you want to create your own inputs?

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:01 PM

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yes!

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:01 PM

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you'd have to figure out PCI compliance by yourself

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are you willing to go down that road?

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:01 PM

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yes

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:02 PM

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just to make sure i'm clear on this, Payment Elements is not the Checkout hosted page

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there is no redirection or anything

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it's part of your page

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your app

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:02 PM

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ah ok soo.. it is still fully customised?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:02 PM

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this is why I asked you to check the link above

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https://stripe.com/docs/elements/appearance-api

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I would also highly recommend reading this https://stripe.com/docs/billing/subscriptions/build-subscriptions?ui=elements

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it also explains most of the things I explained earlier

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and some of the stuff I'm about to explain as well

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I think the only thing missing from that amazing doc is the pending_setup_intent variant when the 1st invoice is 0 either because a trial or a 100%off coupon was applied

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do you need a moment to go over those docs?

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:12 PM

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No I think I got most of the details..
SO it seem you want to suggest the following -
I create a stripe client and a subscription, I send the secret to the frontend.
The frontend then sends the card details to stripe.. and does not again call the backend.
The backend, once the subscripion is created, assume that all is good.. which actually might be dangerous.. now that I am thinking about it.. because it would mean that I would in the backend business logic give access to all to this customer.. but then later the payment might still fail!

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So I somehow need to have an info back from the frontend or stripe that the subscription was started / the payment was started, I guess?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:13 PM

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The backend, once the subscripion is created, assume that all is good.. which actually might be dangerous.
we haven't touched on that yet

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so that's the second part of this workflow

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https://stripe.com/docs/billing/subscriptions/webhooks

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:15 PM

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I am all ears

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oh webhooks 😦
I was hoping to avoid them for this.

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:16 PM

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there are you best friend trust me

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doing this synchronously is not really a good idea

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:16 PM

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well. I have implemented them in my own app.. and they are cool yes.. but for thsi client.. it means to have to setup the whole infrastructure to digest events

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so I was trying to avoid them

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:16 PM

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you could use the same infra as the backend

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no need for an extra server for this

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:17 PM

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I know I know

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:17 PM

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it's just a POST endpoint

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:17 PM

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I did that for myself for my own app

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:17 PM

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I'm glad to hear your familiar with that

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:17 PM

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but still.. it means you persist the event in a database for the events for instance

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:17 PM

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so shall we go down through that rabbit whole?

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:17 PM

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that is all possible... but still extra habit

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I would just need to know the event name

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and the attribute to check

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:17 PM

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but still.. it means you persist the event in a database for the events for instance
you don't really have to

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we take care of this for you

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:18 PM

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well for async procesing

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:18 PM

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yeah if you want to process async then yes

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I agree

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but that's a story for another day

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:18 PM

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In my own app.. I just take the event the webhook sends.. and then a later async process will process it

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thats the best approach in any case

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:18 PM

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yes I agree

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:18 PM

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but yeah got idea I could process sync for this client

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so again.. which event to listen to for the starting subscription

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:19 PM

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I always tell people to treat the webhook endpoint as a fire-and-forget type of function

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I'm glad you're refocusing the discussion. that's more I like it 😊

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:20 PM

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but doing it with an event.. has the disadvantage.. that also the client int the UI would hang between heaven and hell until his subscription is started async

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:20 PM

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that's UX and it can be handled in so many ways

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:21 PM

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So again, whas the name of the webhool event to listen to

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:21 PM

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now I'm disappointed again with you 😆 you're digressing

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there are multiple ones

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your main one is invoice.paid this will let you know that the invoice was paid

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and the invoice.billing_reason https://stripe.com/docs/api/invoices/object#invoice_object-billing_reason would let you know why this invoice is happening

Stripe API reference – The Invoice object – curl

Complete reference documentation for the Stripe API. Includes code snippets and examples for our Python, Java, PHP, Node.js, Go, Ruby, and .NET libraries.

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:22 PM

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but it will be called EVERY time

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and not just initially

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:23 PM

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you still don't trust me @spiral forge, I thought by know we have built this trust between us 🤗

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I'll get you there

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you should use this especially with the billing_reason subscription_cycle to provision the new cycle of the subscription

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or subscription_update when the customer upgrades/downgrades their subscription

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etc.

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the other important ones are invoice.payment_failed and invoice.payment_action_required

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:26 PM

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public void handle(StripeObject stripeObject) {
Invoice stripeInvoice = (Invoice) stripeObject;
if (invoiceService.existsStripeId(stripeInvoice.getId())) {
return;
}

    stripeInvoice.getBillingReason().equals("subscription_create")

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I gugess something like that

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But would that tell me also about a trial started??

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:26 PM

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for when the payment fails or requires 3DS secure

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I left out the subscription creation to the end for a reason

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:27 PM

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3DS secure? But that should be handled by the froned without any extra hassle, I would assume

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:28 PM

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spiral forge 3DS secure? But that should be handled by the froned without any extra hassle, I...

when the customer enters their payment details it will be handled, but it's really up to the issuing bank whether to ask for 3DS or not on off-session payments

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so you need to be careful about that and have your webhook endpoint listen to those events so you could ask your user to come back to an on-session and verify 3DS for that particular invoice

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:30 PM

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?? but right now.. as I have it in my own app.. the customer is in the UI - ON SESSION - and enters his credit card details. And if there is 3DS, there is a popup, he enters his details - and 3d Secure is done forever

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:30 PM

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that's not true unfortunately

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sometimes issuing banks for whatever reason they have

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would ask for 3DS

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:30 PM

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I will ask for the credit card details upfront in any case

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:31 PM

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yes you should

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:31 PM

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and then always the 3D secure popped up

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:31 PM

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it's really a fail-safe measure

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:32 PM

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are you saying that, 3D secure couldf also be asked for later - or later again another time... let say after 3 payments were done sucessfully already???

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:32 PM

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if and when this happens (meaning the issuing bank deemed that 3DS is necessary for an off-session payment) you would have to ask the user to go back to your app and authorize this payment

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:32 PM

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spiral forge are you saying that, 3D secure couldf also be asked for later - or later again a...

if the issuing bank deems it necessary yes

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:33 PM

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so you are saying I should listen to payment_action_required - and then send an email to the customer, to login, then show him some extra UI

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:33 PM

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it's really up to the discretion of the issuing bank and nor Stripe nor the Card Network have any control over this

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:33 PM

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spiral forge so you are saying I should listen to payment_action_required - and then send an ...

exactly

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:33 PM

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the payment failed event.. that is just the 5 times retry.. right?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:34 PM

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depending on the retries settings on your dashboard

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:35 PM

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and the trial.. so is there an event to listen to when the trial starts???

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or is that the same as the invoice evdent

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:35 PM

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that's the fun part

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the thing I left for last

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so we've covered so far the following:
1- how to create the subscription and consider whether it's a trial or not
2- how to collect those payment details and save them as default to the subscription
3- how to handle recurring billing cycles and failed payments

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are you already happy with your answers?

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so far at least

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:39 PM

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I roughly know - I will create a customer,
Then create a subscription and ask for the secret in two flavours. THe frontend will then send the secret to stripe and add the credit card details with that.
And then... at some point.. the backend will receive an invoice event that the invoice is paid.. with a REASON - and I still dont know which reason it is that will tell me that a NEW subscription started and I need to ACTIVATE the customer.
and then.. somehow.. evil things may happen,... and somehow... I need to be able to do 3d Secure also at a later time..
And then... magic... somethign with trial.

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:43 PM

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and I still dont know which reason it is that will tell me that a NEW subscription started and I need to ACTIVATE the customer.
you're still as much impatient as when this thread started 😆

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I'm loving this conversation to be honest

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Here's your final step

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there are other events that fire when events on a subscription happen

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those are the customer.subscription.* events

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so let's start with the first scenario where there is no trial

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you follow the workflow we have been discussing for the past x hours now and you will get an invoice.paid event with a billing_reason subscription_create

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using the Invoice object you have received you would use the subscription field https://stripe.com/docs/api/invoices/object#invoice_object-subscription to retrieve the subscription in question https://stripe.com/docs/api/subscriptions/retrieve

Stripe API reference – Retrieve a subscription – curl

Complete reference documentation for the Stripe API. Includes code snippets and examples for our Python, Java, PHP, Node.js, Go, Ruby, and .NET libraries.

Stripe API reference – The Invoice object – curl

Complete reference documentation for the Stripe API. Includes code snippets and examples for our Python, Java, PHP, Node.js, Go, Ruby, and .NET libraries.

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you will check it's status https://stripe.com/docs/api/subscriptions/object#subscription_object-status
and if it's active you're good to go

Stripe API reference – The subscription object – curl

Complete reference documentation for the Stripe API. Includes code snippets and examples for our Python, Java, PHP, Node.js, Go, Ruby, and .NET libraries.

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you will provision for your customer to get access to your product and life is good

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this is the easy part

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if the subscription status is trialing you don't really need to do anything, you will just ignore this

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now let's talk about trialing and the famously "don't start the trial before collecting the payment method" scenario

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:52 PM

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are you saying, you are recommending me, that, sync, while stripe send me an invoice paid event, I should in the same call call stripe back and ask for the subscription status again??

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that sounds both dangerous as well as doing the same work twice..s hould the billing reason already tell me if the subscription is active?

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:53 PM

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spiral forge are you saying, you are recommending me, that, sync, while stripe send me an inv...

I know this sounds counter-intuitive but we don't support expanding on the event objects today

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:53 PM

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but would the reason of subscription create exactl tell me that the subscription is active now??

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:54 PM

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you could look at the invoice amount

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if it's more than 0 then yes there's no trial and you can rely on the billing_reason you're right

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you make a very good compelling point @spiral forge hats off

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:56 PM

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and if the invoice amount is 0, it measn the trial started???

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:56 PM

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yes

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:56 PM

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or could it mean something is also fucked up maybe

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:56 PM

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that's also true

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I would probably mind the language but yeah you're not wrong

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:56 PM

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because - I know when switching plans - you can have a 0 amount because you still have a positive balance

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:57 PM

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spiral forge because - I know when switching plans - you can have a 0 amount because you stil...

the billing reason would be different in that case

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 4:58 PM

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ok, so you are saying - I will get an invoice paid event, both for trial and not trial.
If I want to be perect, I woild have to reterieve the subscription again and check if active or trial, or,
as a little hack, just check the invoice amount if 0, trial started, if > 0, subscription paid started

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I might go for retrieving the subscription maybe.. just to be double sure

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what is missing still is the payment intent fuckup. And well, I am german, not US, so we dont shoot people with guns but we dont mind to shoot them with bad words

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 4:59 PM

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but for the trial part I have another event that I want you to listen to and let me explain why

wraith rapids Aug 17, 2022, 5:01 PM

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spiral forge what is missing still is the payment intent fuckup. And well, I am german, not U...

I would prefer if you don't, we really like to keep the respect and good conduct going on in our discord server so everyone would be enjoying the conversation

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so in the case where there is a trial

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an invoice would be created with a 0 amount and will be automatically paid

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so you can't really rely on the invoice.paid event for this one to know for a fact that the user has entered their payment details right?

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so how would you go about it then you may ask.

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there's another event that is fired when the user does provide their payment details to the pending_setup_intent which is customer.subscription.update

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when this happens you would get a Subscription object this time from the event and you will see that the default_payment_method is no longer null

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then you know for sure that the user have submitted their payment details and you could now safely provision the subscription from your end

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If you really want the trial period to be x days since the moment they provide their payment details, you could adjust the trial_end field https://stripe.com/docs/api/subscriptions/update#update_subscription-trial_end

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I guess this concludes the whole process

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it's been a really fun ride @spiral forge

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I have to step away, don't hesitate to ask follow up questions and I'm sure that my amazing colleagues would be here to provide you with the best answers

spiral forge Aug 17, 2022, 5:16 PM

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this unfortunatley still does not answer how to handle 3D secure async at a later time 😦

white urchin Aug 17, 2022, 5:24 PM

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Hi there 👋 taking over for @wraith rapids

The server is getting really busy, so I'm just letting you know it's going to be a few minutes before we can get back to you

pastel ermine Aug 17, 2022, 5:38 PM

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@spiral forge The way to handle async 3DS failures yourself is to listen for the invoice.payment_action_required webhook event and send the user something based on that to bring them on to your site.
https://stripe.com/docs/billing/subscriptions/overview#requires-action

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Then you can either send the user to the Stripe-hosted invoice page, or you can send them to your own custom page. You'd then pass the client secret of the invoice's latest payment intent to your client side and call confirmCardPayment on it to present the 3DS modal. https://stripe.com/docs/js/payment_intents/confirm_card_payment

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It is also worth noting that you can configure it so that Stripe automatically sends out this email if you are looking to avoid webhooks as much as possible.
https://dashboard.stripe.com/account/billing/automatic

#Dooing-Setup Intent