#Infinitely thin sprays and triangles - Can all 3 models be hit? How should it be played?

24 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

brave sable
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Hi there - seeking a definitive infernal ruling on whether or not an infinitely thin spray can definitely hit all 3 members of a triangle formation (see attached picture).

The case for is that the models are base to base, and therefore a line could cross both bases at the perfect angle.

The case against is that being b2b with something is not the same as being within it per other rulings, so an infinitely thin line might not 'cross' those bases even if they are b2b.

As another example of the above, models are considered to not block line of sight to each other along the deployment line because of tangential LOS.

Having a definitive ruling on whether or not would be great.

The secondary question is, would the angle be so perfect that it's realistically not happening in meat space, and should be considered impossible even if it's technically possible, or would best practice be to simply allow the spray if its technically possible, even if the angle is likely sliiiightly incorrect.

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jade steppe
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I think we're in the realm of tangential LOS and perfect alignment not being actually doable on the table. So even if it were technically possible, I'd say you can't hit all 3.

brave sable
ember kindle
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Based on the above picture you could
However as already stated here and elsewhere in here this is not always going to be the case in a perfect world

opal bluff
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I would never permit this as it is physically impossible to allow the perfection required to do so

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Deployment is different, because each model can be lined up against an imaginary line that is "forced" into existance. The spray line you are asking for cannot be easily (or even possibly) forced into existance in a way to make this a physical reality.

brave sable
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so the answer i'm getting from both of you is that it's 100% technically possible, but in practice the precision required is so high that on a real table it should be treated as impossible and the spray will only ever hit 2 of those models?

If so, thank you, that is good to have a clear answer

green lotus
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Ignoring the imprecision of my thumb on a phone screen, if you were to "pack" models B2B like this on the physical table, then Challenger's scenario above would be built in real life, although with the addition of a few more models.

Screenshot_20250225_082237_Chrome.jpg
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In this instance, are we saying that a spray from the bottom model to the top model would hit all of the small-based Pygs except for the ones one the leftmost/rightmost edges?

opal bluff
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I would still say no, with real models, because you cannot guarantee, with 100% certainty that all bases are perfect circles with 0 deviation in tolerance. If we're going to get to the point of using tangents, the imprecision of base construction is going to come into this as well.

I would argue the same in Wartable, because the "circles" are not actually circles to the precision required to make the tangent possible.

pearl forge
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So the answer is simple: in theory yes, but practically no 🙂

vernal island
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How would you determine which would be hit? Agreement of players that either the left or right would be hit? Dice roll left/right?

This could even be created by a base-to-base diamond of four models, and considering the popularity of 3-model shield-guard formations, it is even likely to come up when a model with pistol and spray moves to slot into the triangle.

storm surge
vernal island
storm surge
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not for initial targetting and los.

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its phrased in a way that allows you to hit things you'd spray behind a target, but not that you can target the model, so in the above example you'd have to target the left or right one, obviously preventing hitting the other

valid flare
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there are many many ways to achieve this in game

opal bluff
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And there are no mathematically accurate ways for it to actually happen.

light charm
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Just accept the ruling and go along?
Regarding "how would you determine which?" --> same as usual, if players can't agree then deal with inaccuracy with dice

storm surge
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traditionally as with having multiple equidistant targets that could be hit with the same aoe, if roll a dice, so in this case 1-3 for left, 4-6 for right in this example

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you could generally also play by intent, "my intent is to stop just short enough that the slight angling hits right over left, etc.

valid flare
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the issue is when b2b matters, like say the model has quagmire or something. at that point you'd likely have to roll off

vernal island
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Shadow fire then. But "bases aren't perfect circles and you play with the base you have, not an abstract volume" is fine.

static star