#Raven Guard 1000 Points HELP!

275 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

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(Old post went missing)

Basically splitting the box in half and I will get some stuff.

I came up with a revised list - what should I change??

++ Crusade Force Organisation Chart ((HH V2) Legions Astartes) [990Pts] ++

  • Allegiance: +

Allegiance: Loyalist

Legion: XIX: Raven Guard

  • HQ: +

Centurion [100Pts]
. Legion Centurion: Raven's Talons, Raven's Talons, Refractor Field

  • Elites: +

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [210Pts]
. Contemptor Dreadnought: Gravis Lascannon, Gravis Power Fist with in-built combi-bolter, Meltagun

Mor Deythan Squad [175Pts]: 5x Chainsword, 4x Mor Deythan, Mor Deythan Shade
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger

Terminator Cataphractii Squad (Deliverers) [265Pts]
. Legion Cataphractii: Pair of Raven's Talons
. Legion Cataphractii: Pair of Raven's Talons
. Legion Cataphractii: Pair of Raven's Talons
. Legion Cataphractii: Pair of Raven's Talons
. Legion Tartaros Sergeant: Pair of Lightning Claws

  • Troops: +

Reconnaissance Squad [120Pts]: Bolt Pistol, 4x Bolt Pistol, Bolter, 4x Bolter, Legion Recon Sergeant, Legion Vexilla, Meltabombs, 4x Recon Legionaries

Reconnaissance Squad [120Pts]: Bolt Pistol, 4x Bolt Pistol, Bolter, 4x Bolter, Legion Recon Sergeant, Meltabombs, Nuncio-Vox, 4x Recon Legionaries

++ Total: [990Pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I have literally no clue about ROW or any other rules as I don’t have the rulebook yet and BattleScribe isn’t fully up to date.

Also the centurion dude will be a delegatus (can he be terminator armoured?)

<@&877303985156030484>

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No clue how imma get the combi volkites - any suggestions?

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Cataphracti squad will be DELIVERERS

trail viper
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Recon Squads arent legal as your compulsory troops unless you use the Recon Company Rite

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Is that a good rite to be in?

trail viper
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its fine

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without it youll need to redesign this list

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oh yeah the list is illegal anyways

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you dont have a Master Of The Legion

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Can that just be the delegatus?

trail viper
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Yes

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Ok great

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Lemme check recon rite quick

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Is that like a universal rite or Raven guard specific?

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Ah damn yeah I found it

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Decapitation strike is much better, I’ll rethink

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Oh I can just add two tactical squads

trail viper
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yes you can

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yeah just did that - decapitation strike looks way way better

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plus more models

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once i assign warlord/master of legion is this a legal list?

trail viper
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yes

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fantastic, and finally, is this in any way competitive at 1k points? My group is pretty tough and play comp lists often etc.

trail viper
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Yes

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Deliverers will shit on people

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5 is enough?

trail viper
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any more is too mean

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Mor Deythan will also shit on people

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ah ok haha well i think ill settle for this then - thanks for your help!

trail viper
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np

silent cedar
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Also, the Centurion should be 85 points. 60 base, plus 15 for a pair of lightning claws (it's an option below the individual weapons), plus 10 to upgrade them.

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silent cedar
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What you did is technically allowed, which is probably why it didn't stop you. It costs 15 more points than buying them together, though.

I also just noticed the Deliverers were 265 points when they should be 275.

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yep deliverers just dotn show on battlescribe yet so I was trying to keep 10 points free in the list

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also thoughts on contemptor loadout?

silent cedar
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I don't have any experience with it yet, but I think the gravis melta would be better than the lascannon when going with a hybrid loadout. You can only charge what you shoot, so the limited range should not matter as much.

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sand rapids
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Delegatus costs 25 points on top of the base Centurion cost. So your Delegatus will actually cost 110 in artificer armour or 135 in Cataphractii armour.

Decapitation Strike is a nice RoW; however this list doesn't make a tremendously large use of the Rite's bonuses:

  • At 1000 points you're unlikely to bump into more than 1 IC in your opponent's army (limiting where you get the Preferred Enemy bonus)
  • You've only got 1 unit that can Deep Strike, so unless you also throw one or more of the Infiltrate units into Outflank, you'll have only one unit taking advantage of the Shrouded-on-deployment bonus.

Not necessarily a reason not to run the Rite, but it is something to bear in mind

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# sand rapids Delegatus costs 25 points on top of the base Centurion cost. So your Delegatus w...

Ah ok I just thought that the other rite seems a bit bad (the other RG specific one) would It be better to stick with the recon one?

This list is still up in the air, box arrives Monday and I can only afford to purchase maybe one legion specific unit.

So overall my list options are still somewhat open but gotta stick under 1k points for the next few weeks max until we as a group branch out.

That second point - “unlikely to bump into more than IC?” Not really sure what that means

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Should I take more deliverers? I mean - I can guarantee that my group will also attempt to bring OP/mean units that just how we play sometimes

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Instead of Mor Deythan or are MDs really worth it?

sand rapids
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IC - Independent character (i.e., for the most part, Centurion or Praetor). At 1000 points most lists (like your own) are only going to have one of these, and one of the Decap Strike bonuses is against ICs (and any unit they're hiding in)

Yeah, Liberation Force (the other RG special RoW) isn't something you can really do at 1k as you need a chunky allied detachment too (also the rules for Militia arent out yet!)

I personally think the MDs are great and would be a good part of the list. 10 Deliverers at 1000 points is a bit unfriendly too

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Yeah I think I need to step back and stop looking at this from a 40k competitive point of view.

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What sort of stuff would you suggest would be cool from a lore point of view for a 1000 points game?

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Currently reading deliverance lost and have small knowledge of general RG lore but what other books should I read to get more up to speed?

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I thought it would be cool to have a survivors of isstvan list but not sure what that would entail

silent cedar
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If you want to do a "survivors of Istvaan" theme, then the Deliverers would be a bit out of place. I don't think they are completely apseudohistorical, but just thematically a bit off. That's my two cents.

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Veterans squads would fit that theme well, but this is a bit low points to have those in many numbers.

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silent cedar
sand rapids
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No, it's more that Corax wasn't really down with them - many of them got sent away, and those that weren't he kept at arms length

silent cedar
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Their association with the Xeric Raven Guard and Horus made Corax very uneasy.

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Ah I see, my mistake, which books can I find all this in? That’s super interesting as yeah my first thought was deliverers not being super Raven like and confused as because their red armour etc. contradicted the legion traits and stuff.

silent cedar
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For the record, the red armor depicted in this document is pretty much reversed Justaerin colors.

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Yeah I can see the similarities, it’s a real shame about the whole deliverers situation and how they are treated

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But they do seem really badass

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I may think about making my centurion Centurion Kedron assuming I could find some art of him

trail viper
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There’s more lore about them in Black Book 3 (better and more in character lore but I digress)

trail viper
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So he doesnt have any art

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(His existence is also a bit of a canon conflict)

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Oh really?

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I’m keen to make a more lore themed army but deliverers make that super difficult 😭

trail viper
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I suggest reading the Black Book

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It has more lore on the Terrans

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And their… issues

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trail viper
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No

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It’s a combination rulebook and lore book

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Perfect - I think my friend has this already so I’ll see about borrowing it off him, thanks

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Also, are colour schemes the same (all black) for raptors talons hawks etc?

trail viper
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Yes

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Raptors dont have rules yet though

silent cedar
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Bxscuit is referring to the Legion trait, not those other guys ("Raptors" is a bit overused), but no there is no prescribed color difference.

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Oh ok

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Also - should I give any deliverers heavy weapons?

trail viper
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Multi Meltas are the best

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So 1 per 5 man and then 4 ravens talons on the rest?

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Also thinking that maybe I run a recon detachment then since I won’t get bonuses as much with Decap strike

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Can’t seem to add multi meltas on Battlescribe

trail viper
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Normal terminators cant take multi meltas

trail viper
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trail viper
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Yes

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It is

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trail viper
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Theyre pretty bad

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Ah

trail viper
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You dont need to take a heavy weapon on Deliverers

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Its just that Multi Meltas are very good

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Can I go dual power fist or does it have to be power fist and smth else

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Yeah I might just go all melee

trail viper
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just go Power Fist Combi Bolter

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Ok cool thanks

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I’m only going to be building a 5 man at the moment but have 10 termies to build so I’ll wait and see if I can pick up a MM or two

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Is the leviathan worth picking up?

I have not reached any RG lore get which says that they use lots of dreadnoughts - do they?

silent cedar
silent cedar
# paper quest Is the leviathan worth picking up? I have not reached any RG lore get which sa...

I have not seen much mention of Dreadnoughts when it comes to thr Raven Guard, which would indicate that they use a standard amount. Usually if they use less it will get mentioned somewhere. Keep in mind that it would use your one Heavy Support slot in Decapitation Strike or Pride of the Legion if you plan on running either of those. (Which is fine if there's no other Heavy Support you plan on taking otherwise.)

trail viper
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in 40k they use a good amount of Dreadnoughts

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they view Dreads as a way to cross the void and speak with the dead

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we dont really know much about RG spirituality in 30k though

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cause FW are cowards

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@trail viper what would be the best way about going to make some raptors? I think k they’re awesome

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Also do you know what the Alpha legion did with the intact geneseed they recovered from ravensdale

trail viper
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They dont have any rules yet

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The closest approximation would be like, gal Vorbak

trail viper
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I was thinking of proxying raptors as say, Deliverers

trail viper
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No its a word bearers unit

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Ah ok will take a look

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trail viper
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# trail viper Why Deliverers?

I just thought since raptors are meant to be stronger, more powerful that standard MK6 would not be suitable, and I’m keen to use deliverers in my force but their lore is a bit rubbish

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I don’t know but I can definitely see what you mean by “Corax hates the terrans”

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I have these terminators which I just built, want to use them but apparently RG don’t use standard termies very often

trail viper
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which is what made me think deliverers were weird

trail viper
silent cedar
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The Raven Guard in general dislike cataphractii armour, but there is always variance from company to company, and proper gear is hard to get ahold of during the Heresy.

trail viper
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they just in general dislike terminators

silent cedar
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Yes, but I thought when they use terminators they greatly prefer tartaros. Was I incorrect about that?

trail viper
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theres no expressed favor in terminator armor

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and actually id imagine theyd prefer cata

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because when therye using terminator armor, they want the heavy shit

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Spartan yes or no?

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Just because I’m really in the Dark about what a 2000-3000 point army looks like

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And I want it to be cool, lore based but also rules wise decent.
Any thoughts @trail viper @silent cedar
(Btw thank you so much both of you for your help! Much appreciated)

ionic geyser
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Lore wise I like to pick a theme. Raven Guard did have everything available to a legion so they could do wacky stuff as well like armoured platoons. My Raven Guard are formed around the idea of Terran exiles and the lists I make for those are aggressive, very up close shooting and melee

silent cedar
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Yeah, it's really about picking a theme or Rite of War you like and figuring out how to make it work well.

oblique fox
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Not just that but the way you want to play them

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Ranged vs melee, drop assault effective or scouting foot troops

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I do have deliverers tho so that would definitely be a good way to play them

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oblique fox
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I’m building my box as a mainly recruit marine force with the libera book art marking out random marines as vets “survivors”

silent cedar
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It's really subjective, but that is a potent option. Broadly speaking there's two kinds of Rites of War, some which let you build unconventional armies, and some that provide a powerful bonus at the cost of list restrictions. Decapitation Strike is the latter.

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Liberation Force looks good if you want to bring Auxilia/Militia, but we can't run it yet because those don't have rules yet.

ionic geyser
silent cedar
ionic geyser
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However, a fair few Terrans returned to the legion as a whole to fight against Horus. So they could have been re equiped on Deliverance

trail viper
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Terrans could have a small number of Mk6 suits from raiding

trail viper
trail viper
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That’s true, I guess I could just use that as my reasoning (in planning on writing some sort of backstory for the army sorta)

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I hope a couple found their way into Terra a bit like some salamanders did

ionic geyser
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Didn't know I was taking History degree again

silent cedar
trail viper
silent cedar
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Yeah, like the Vth Legion.

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Is the Spartan worth keeping then?
Because what other vehicles would be suitable?

trail viper
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Sent on their own Independent fleets

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Basically being told to fuck off and never come back

silent cedar
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Like the Vth Legion.

trail viper
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But this was around half a decade before for the heresy broke out

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So there was no way they could be gotten an armor that did not exist

silent cedar
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Pretty sure it was closer to half a century.

trail viper
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Gate 42 happened when Horus was Warmaster

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Horus was Warmaster for about 5 years

silent cedar
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Correct, long after said exile.

trail viper
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Wa?

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The exile happened after Gate 42

silent cedar
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Corax "exiled" most of the Terran higher ups as soon as he feasibly could.

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I’m pretty sure there we some terrans, because the legionary who died on Isstvan that had his face taken by the alpha legion infiltrator was Terran iirc

trail viper
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No

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He didnt exile them

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He removed them from positions of power

silent cedar
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Okay, tell me the page in Book 3 and I'll double check.

trail viper
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They were still in the legion, but they weren’t his higher up commanders

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So regardless of what lore aspect I look to derive my army from? What armour (if any) should I look at?

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Or should I stick with infantry units

trail viper
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armor like tanks?

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if so, the Sabre is a good little tank

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Yeah any sort of tanks/Vehicles etc. I think I would just get bored with only having infantary

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And my friend built his Spartan today - it’s bloody huge

trail viper
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Spartans are big boys

trail viper
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also maybe a plane

silent cedar
trail viper
silent cedar
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That's not a page number, but I'm guessing that's from Book 6. Am I correct?

trail viper
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Yo I may make the lore from my army part of those “crusade fleets”

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I am also keen to get those little nameplates for bases and could have Kirine as my Preator

trail viper
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Iirc, Kirine raided Nostramo, stole a bunch of geneseed and dipped

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Maybe grab some drop pods. Drop pod assault would be awesome

trail viper
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Its a cool rite

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Sadly Decapitation Strike is no longer Orbital Assault 2.0

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Wait there’s a rite of war for drop pods???

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I need to read up the core rules a bit better

trail viper
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Yes

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Its the only place you can actually use pods

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Really? I read the rite but not sure where it says that no other rites can take drop pods

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@trail viper

silent cedar
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Standard drop pods can only be taken as Dedicated Transports. Very few units can take them as Dedicated Transports outside of the RoW. Only one I am aware of is vet squads.

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So I assume a unit can only have one DT option (e.g tac marines with rhinos)

silent cedar
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Page 213, Dedicated Transports

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There may be a place that calls it out more specifically, I haven't found it again yet.

sand rapids
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The limitation on Drop Pods (i.e. them only being selectable as a DT, not as a 'floating' transport) is on the Drop Pod unit entry itself

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Then you can see from all the other units' entries who can and can't actually take drop Pods outside of the dedicated RoW; like Cornvus says, it ain't many

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Think it literally might just be Vets actually. Bog standard Termis can take a Dreadclaw and Contemptors can take a Dread pod

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Not sure whether to run the drop pod assault

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Maybe

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If I can find some cheap drop pods

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I’m also losing my mind because I can’t find combi volkites anywhere

silent cedar
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Page 130, Combi-Weapons

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No but as in the actual model bits

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They are not in any upgrade sets that I can find, maybe have to proxy normal volkites

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If I can find an Stl I’ll get them printed

trail viper
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They don’t have a model outside of 1 special character

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Ah damn, what are you using for yours? A friend has a filament printer so if I can find the print files then I guess I could get them printed

trail viper
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I’ve not decided yet

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Ah ok. Are combi volkites seriously good?

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Do you think they are at risk of being nerfed heavily

trail viper
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They’re amazing on Mor Deythan

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Frankly kind of too good

paper quest
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Yeah

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Would these be suitable do you think

IMG_6129.png
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£13 for 5

trail viper
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Yeah they work

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Perfect

peak lotus
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@paper quest can you post your revised list?

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++ Crusade Force Organisation Chart ((HH V2) Legions Astartes) [987pts] ++

  • Allegiance: +

Allegiance: Loyalist

Legion: XIX: Raven Guard

RoW: Recon

  • HQ: +

Delegatus [100Pts]
. Legion Centurion: Pair of Raven's Talons, Refractor Field

  • Elites: +

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [205Pts]
. Contemptor Dreadnought: Gravis Melta Cannon, Gravis Power Fist with in-built combi-bolter, Havoc Launcher, Meltagun

Mor Deythan Squad [185Pts]: Artificer Armour, 5x Chainsword, 4x Mor Deythan, Mor Deythan Shade
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger
. Minor Combi-Weapon - Volkite Charger

Deliverer Squad [275pts]
. Legion Cataphractii: Pair of Raven's Talons
. Legion Cataphractii: Pair of Raven's Talons
. Legion Cataphractii: Pair of Raven's Talons
. Legion Cataphractii: Pair of Raven's Talons
. Legion Cataphractii Sergeant: Combi-Bolter, Power Fist

  • Troops: +

Reconnaissance Squad [106Pts]: Bayonet, Bolt Pistol, 4x Bolt Pistol, Bolter, 4x Bolter, Infravisor, Legion Recon Sergeant, Nuncio-Vox, 4x Recon Legionaries

Reconnaissance Squad [106Pts]: Bayonet, Bolt Pistol, 4x Bolt Pistol, Bolter, 4x Bolter, Infravisor, Legion Recon Sergeant, Nuncio-Vox, 4x Recon Legionaries

++ Total: [987] ++

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Only going with recon @1000 points because I have only 10 tac marines

oblique fox
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I’m liking the look of this. Do you know how you’ll play this?

sand rapids
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You've got 20 points left over (approx) - how about auguries for the Recon squads

oblique fox
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@sand rapids just a query regarding rites of war/master of legion/delegatus

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I know only preators get master of legion?

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So I can’t take a rite unless I have a Preator?

sand rapids
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Delegatus also gets Master of the Legion

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They're basically there to allow you to take a RoW in lower point games

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sand rapids
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I love how recon squads get a forward deployment

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Very epic

sand rapids
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ALL your non-heavy Infantry get that 😃

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Ah, sorry, you mean the EXTRA forward deployment - yeah it's cool

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Give them a Rhino too and they'll be right up in someone's grill

oblique fox
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Eventually you should see if you can get a rhino for the mor deythan’s

oblique fox
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Dangerous when you have 5 man squads, if they’re assaulted they’re almost surely dead

peak lotus
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not sure why the infravisors and bayonets on the recons... if you dropped those you could tack on another deliverer or mor deythan

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Yeah I’ll have a look at that

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sand rapids
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It's part of the trait - all infantry who aren't Heavy, Jump Pack or Terminators get Infiltrate

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Wow that’s awesome

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Scout is redeploy correct?

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Shame Dreadnought can’t infiltrate 😂

sand rapids
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I thought they should've just made the trait Infiltrate for everyone, but ho hum

sand rapids
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Effectively it's a pre-game move

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Right so I deploy at the start. Then once every army deploys and we are about to start the next phase I can move any units with the profiles above?

sand rapids
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So first everyone deploys their units that don't have Infiltrate (in which order is dictated by the mission)

Then both sides deploy any Infiltrators (roll off to see who goes first, then alternate)

Then both sides move any Scouts (again, roll off to see who goes first then alternate)

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Wow nice ok, I really like the look of these RG rules!

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First game tomorrow
Anything to remember in particular????

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Any tips?

peak lotus
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be nice... remember you're there to have fun and so is your opponent

oblique fox
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This force is made with HH 1.0 point values right?

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oblique fox
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at the time I didn’t realize battle scribe was updated