#Expanding from 1250 to 2k, handling tanks

106 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

short chasm
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Hello! My Wife and I played our first game yesterday. She ran the following list against my list of 10 tartaros, 5 cataphractii, and a spartan. We're wondering what to add to get up to 2k to help even the playing field. Right now we're thinking the 5 cataphractii I have unbuilt, a squad of sunkillers, and potentially 1-3 contemptors, but we haven't made any decisions, and I'm not sure about equipment for the contemptors or terminators. We also will probably put the terminators in a drop pod instead of the rhino so they can get up closer.
Any advice?
Thanks!
List summary:
Praetor w/ phoenix rapier
20 marine tactical w/ chain bayonettes, pf and plasma pistol sgt
10 marine tactical, barebones
5 Phoenix Terminators in a Rhino
5 Palatine Blades (ran with praetor in dreadclaw)
5 Kakophoni, who did some work when they weren't gets hotting themselves to death.

Part of it was she rolled a lot of ones on terminator armour saves. Picutred here, 5/8 dice being 1s shortly after rolling 3/4 dice as ones.

📎 Emperors_Children_List.pdf IMG_20220704_163503.jpg
short chasm
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<@&877300979136086086> any suggestions? Sun killers seem good based on the datasheet compared to regular heavy supports. Should we go all-in on a big block?

gusty pike
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What would you ever need a big block to kill?

shy linden
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i tried 10 last night, but think for most games i would just use 5, also the phoenix terminators cant go in a rhino so you may need a land raider or some other transport added into the list

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10 it was hard to get them in cover and still all have LoS on whatever i wanted to shoot

gusty pike
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Also take a paragon blade on your praetor lol

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The Phoenix rapiers is a cheap imitation

shadow badge
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Yeah, the terninators will need larger transports and Paragon Blades are your best bet when you can take them. Sun Killers have diminishing returns since they can only kill one unit per shooting attack. Other than the Spartan, you're bringing mostly close ranged threats by the look of it? Melta is good for armor up close and cheaper than lascannons. Plasma is pretty classic for terminators.

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Any thoughts given to RoW as well? I actually like the Defense Line over a transport for SK but not every RoW permits them.

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gusty pike
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They can't split fire and you can only ever take one

short chasm
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gusty pike
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Terminators can never take a rhino

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Rhino rules have always stated this

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Pretty sure termies can't take normal drop pods eother

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As for the dreadclaw it doesn't have assault transport so your palatine blades can't charge out of it anymore

shy linden
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the dedicated transport section lists vehicles that can be taken as transport but not bought normally, each unit says which vehicles it can use as dedicated transport

short chasm
shy linden
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thats would work

shadow badge
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Infantry Transport is the rule you're looking for. Prevents Bulky models from using it.

gusty pike
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Pretty sure dreadclaw lost assault vehicle

shy linden
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it has

gusty pike
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Ya don't want palatine's in a non assault vehicle

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If you want deepstrike on your palatine's you could run them with a warmonger

shy linden
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for your extra points, id suggest a 5 man lascannon sun-killer/HSS squad, use the models as whichever you want to bring, 1-2 contemptors and potentially a 3rd line unit, either another bare bones 10 man squad or something else

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i struggled in my game last night with only 2 line units, couldn't score more than 2 objectives each turn

gusty pike
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He could just split the 20 man squad in teo

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Instead of buying a whole nother unit

shy linden
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true, but i like big 20 man squads for pushing the middle since they will take a lot of damage

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gusty pike
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They're the only means you have of ever killing other dreads in your list

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So prolly melee and you wanna hit other dreads in the charge to get the initiative bonus

gusty pike
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And if you're pushing the middle you might as well swap tacos for despoilers

shy linden
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yeh was going to say apothecaries are great

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tacs get heart of the legion though

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with apoth it gets even better

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contemptors dont get search lights, so if its night fighting turn 1 they can only shoot stuff that other models with searchlight have already tagged, so i actually think i prefer melta + fist for mid/short range

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could always go 1 with lascannons for backfield, take the helical on it, and 1 for mid field with havoc launcher and shorter range weapons

short chasm
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Do all the core book missions have the night fighting rule or did I miss something?

shy linden
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5/6 do

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just war of lies doesnt

gusty pike
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Night fighting is only if one of the players wants it

shy linden
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but for the other 5 it still depends if either player wants it

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but if someone wants night fighting then they get it on a 2+

gusty pike
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But since ec is mostly a short range melee legion anyway you kind of want night fighting yourself

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You can take surgical augments on sunkillers to let them shoot at max range

shy linden
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the augary also removes the 24 inch max range, which you will want to take anyway for the free intercept reaction

short chasm
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Yeah, night fighting seems like it's somewhat good for balance tbh, we've just not been using it since we're trying to start simple

shy linden
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it helps a lot, especially when starting out as it means you don't get punished so much for deployment errors

short chasm
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Thoughts on double close combat weapons on the dread vs 1 and the melta?

shy linden
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if you are flanking or drop podding it in then that would work

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if you are moving up the table then i like something with a bit more range

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shy linden
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you have to take a champion HQ

short chasm
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That's it in terms of restrictions?

shy linden
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can't take any models with move 0 or models with slow or bombard keywords

short chasm
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Right I remember reading that. Does that count a drop pod then?

shadow badge
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Yeah, most drop pods are out. Dreadclaws and Kharybdis are ok.

shy linden
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main benefit is giving 4 units that dont normally have outflank the keyword

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and being able to control the turn they come in on without having to roll

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doesn't work on units with heavy keyword though

gusty pike
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Melta is good against enemy vehicles

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It is not very useful against other dreads tho

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Don't dreads have the heavy keyword?

shadow badge
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Works well for getting guns where they're inconvenient or for putting faster assault options in position.

gusty pike
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You can't MS outflank heavy units

shy linden
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just cataphractii with heavy keyword really

shadow badge
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Iirc contemptors don't but I don't have my books on me.

shy linden
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dreadnoughts dont

shadow badge
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Ah yeah, true. Heavy is an Infantry sub-type, they wouldn't.

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So Cataphractii, Breachers, and HSS mostly iirc

shy linden
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leviathans and deredeo do have heavy, but you also cant outflank Heavy Support in the RoW

shadow badge
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They're durable board starter units with some firepower, at least.

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Backtracking a bit, I'd second tge extra Line as a next move. Stuff dies.

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shy linden
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Sun Killers with Augury Scanner 205pts (185+20)
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought with Lascannons 215pts (175+40)
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought with Gravis Melta and Gravis Power Fist with meltagun 195pts (175+5+15)
10 man Legion Tactical Squad 100pts
Apothecary 45pts
That's 760pts

short chasm
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or just another tactical

short chasm
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shy linden
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though if its a list just for fighting yours you can drop the helical array to save 10 points

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yeh despoilers instead of tacs would work

shadow badge
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Ed's suggestion also looks solid. That would give some armor punch at range.

short chasm
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Worth going assault, or no?

shadow badge
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Yeah, it's something EC is geared for. Assault squads and Despoilers can take 1/5 power weapons tucked in. Despoilers gain Heart of the Legion like tacs do and have situational +1A for the same price, so they're a favored currently. Assault squads are good for outflank because of their 12" movement.

short chasm
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SO many special rules I don't remember... Heart gives you a feel no pain on objective markers, right?

shy linden
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yeh a 5+ FnP on objectives

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and with an apothecary in the unit it goes to 4+

shadow badge
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Also Stubborn, so the unit is harder to shift overall.

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USRs can take a bit to remember if it's been a while or if you're just experiencing them. Don't sweat it. You'll learn the ones you use over time :)

harsh ember
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Despoilers generally need transport tho, yeah?

shy linden
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either 20 man for a run down the table or a 10 man in land raider or 20 man in spartan/storm eagle/kyribdis

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non-assault vehicles really don't work well with them

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and if possible a apothecary and a chaplain with them for hatred and LD 10

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makes it harder to take them out or pin them

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and makes up a bit for WS4

shadow badge
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Yeah the overall Blast profile changes make blobs + attachments less of a liability than in 1.0, though snipers become more dangerous in turn. Depending on traitor vs loyalist, you can also maybe take a shrieker on the sarge to debuff a target as another way to offset the WS4.

harsh ember
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Land raiders for line feels so weird

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But never gonna complain about a land raider

short chasm
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Might get a second age of darkness box and give the land raider to my wife for this list. I just always feel weird about putting models in them instead of just keeping it back and shooting long distance

shy linden
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they are great at drawing enemy fire and surviving it, moving it forward makes it hard to ignore, means the rest of your army takes less damage and has a bit more freedom

short chasm
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Yeah, for 400 pts though. I imagine for one you move forward I wouldn't pay the extra points for a front lascannon. Are flamers good vs marines or would I just stick with the heavy bolter

shadow badge
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It'll take a beating for the 400, at least. Flamers are situational outside of a few legions - they can be a charge deterrent but they don't accomplish as much as other options. If points are a concern I'd keep them cheap. But it's a pretty durable tank and can fill an anti-tank role if you throw points at las.

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Also of note that more standard Land Raiders are cheaper than Spartans and also pretty tough.