Sons of Horus Long March 3k 2.0 New to Marines in general | HH: Age of Darkness | Page 1

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 5:32 AM

#

Never played marines in 1.0 and using 2.0 as an excuse to finally build them. Was thinking something like this but not super sure on everything.

Sons of Horus
Long March

-HQ-
Legion Cataphracii Praetor 155
Paragon Blade
Banestrike ammo

Justinian Terminators 340
5x power fist
Legion standard

Legion Land Raider Proteus Carrier 220

Elites-

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon 210
Gravis lascannon
Heavy flamer
Helical Targeting Array

-Troops-

Legion Tactical Marines 220
+10 Marines
Arrificer Armor
Power Weapon

Legion Cataphracii Terminator Squad 225
5x power fists

Fast Attack-

-Heavy Support-
Legion Sicaran Venetor 385
+1 Venator

Legion Kratos 365
Flare Shields
Melta blast gun

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 5:46 PM

#

My thoughts:

What's your plan with the 3x5 Cataphractii squads? I assume you're outflanking them? They don't really have any ranged firepower to reliably blast stuff once they come on. I think a more solid plan would be to consolidate them into one big squad of 10 and pimp them out with some ranged firepower to make them a more versatile threat. Generally speaking bigger squads are more economical then MSU.

I dare say you might have too much anti-tank and not enough anti-infantry - besides the Kratos' main gun, I'm not really seeing lots of stuff capable of mowing down hordes of power armor, which might be a big thing to worry about in HH2. What's your plan if your opponent puts down 3x20 tacticals/despoilers/assaults with apothecaries? How are you gonna kill that many 3+/5+++ units? Maybe give one of the Contemptors dual Kheres, or turn one of the Sicarans into a Punisher?

Related to the above, you have two tac blobs yourself but they have no melee upgrades and the sarges are only taking power weapons. This is my own opinion here, but for SoH especially I think your AA sarges should be rocking power fists - there are a lot of 2W units running around and you need something to ID them. I'd also consider chain bayonets at least, to make your tac blobs a bit scarier in melee. I would also consider apothecaries to keep them alive, as they're 2/3 of your total scoring units. Remember that just because Legion Terminators become Troops they aren't scoring since the RoW doesn't confer Line.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 5:56 PM

#

I dont really like the math on a lot of the anti infantry weapons I guess?

#

My plan was for sure to outflank the msu terminators and have the put pressure on the rear while the justaerin and dreads put pressure on the front

#

The venators are honestly there to make sure dread on dread fights are a win and to clean up tanks and super heavies if need be.

#

Also, venators have three heavy bolters a piece and I think they will do a decent amount of work against infantry combined with the heavy bolters on the Kratos

#

I could pay for combo weapons on a squad of Terminators but I feel like it's just a better plan to either run into melee with the power fists or just clean up whatever they try to screen with assuming they do

#

But this is just my thoughts looking at 2.0, never played marines and havent tried 2.0

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:14 PM

#

Well for the Venators, their main gun (Neutron Beam Laser) is Ordnance, meaning if you're moving and firing in the same turn all other weapons it has must fire Snap Shots. And if you don't like the math on lots of anti-infantry weapons I'm not sure how you think ~7 heavy bolters is enough to deal with something like 60 tacticals with a FNP - mathematically speaking that's 28 shots, half of which will hit, of which 2/3 will successfully wound, then 2/3 of those wounds will be saved against (Heavy Bolters are still just AP4), then of those unsaved wounds 1/3 will be successfully FNP'd. Then consider that not every single one of these HB's might be firing at full BS, or might be firing at the same unit, etc..

And for the Terminators, my suggestion is more about price than effectiveness - 10 terminators is still a scary thing to have in one's back line, but it's much cheaper - 3x5 Cata squads with just fists runs you 675 points, whereas 10 with fists is only 425 points - that's 250 points saved for IMO pretty much the same effect - lots of scary terminators in your backline running amok. Even if they can't split up to deal with multiple targets it's still something your opponent is gonna have to sweat over.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:17 PM

#

Think its paying the premium to be able to deal with multiple things. Otherwise I have very few units overall especially when that one big squad could be intercepted, counter charged, or pinned

#

Dont know if its gonna be worth it for chain bayonets and apoths for my tacs

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:20 PM

#

Chain bayonets you could probably go without but I think apothecaries are essential since they're 2/3 of your scoring units.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:21 PM

#

I guess I can play around with it

#

But buying two apoth and giving them wargear, I may as well just buy another squad of marines

#

At least thats how I see it

#

Especially with the evade reaction existing

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:24 PM

#

I mean it's not the worst idea - the game system seems to incentivize having lots of bodies, since those bodies are your scoring units, and they're dirt cheap to boot. Obviously we're still in the stage where we really don't know for certain how the 'meta' of HH2 will play out but right now playing wide with lots of tac squads seems to be something the game wants you to do.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:24 PM

#

Yeah

#

And it seems like guns are not the best way to handle tacs imo with so little pie plates and reduced ap2 and 3

#

Talking with my local group though and everyone seems sold on rhinos and I just dont see it

#

And I feel like dreads are gonna be the big threat, especially when they can just roll into your tac squads and sweep them after winning combat hard

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:27 PM

#

I agree there, about dreads at least.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:28 PM

#

And against SoH dreads unless someone pays for bayonets they cant even hurt your dreads in the first round of combat

#

Unless they use krag grenades if they work the same as they did

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:29 PM

#

Yeah I mean the dreads are good versatile choices - you can plow them forward or just sit back with the lascannon, though I think melee will be where they want to be

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:30 PM

#

Agreed, walk up and pew pew at hard targets then slam into infantry

#

If there are not vehicles or dreads left I suppose all those lascannons and stuff will also make very sure some infantry die

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:32 PM

#

they will certainly make terminators scared, though might not have the volume of shots to really threaten blobs

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:32 PM

#

Just dont know what will end up shaking out

#

Imagine at first there will still be a lot of old style lists. 10 mans in rhinos, some tanks, couple dreads

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:34 PM

#

Yeah I think the age of the default 2x10 tacticals in a rhino with a multi-melta are gone.. going wide is the better option now

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:34 PM

#

Big tac bricks are so cheap it feels like a no brainer imo

#

Hard to move when you cant just slap pie plates on them and laugh

#

People running scoring terminators or artificer armor is also gonna be a major issue

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:37 PM

#

Yes. The ability for a Justaerin retinue to take a banner and become scoring is probably gonna be the SoH's best trick imo. A brick of like 10 of them plus a praetor is going to be hard to shift, especially if you go whole hog for a primus medicae.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:37 PM

#

Extremely expensive but just dont move

#

Nothing is IDing them, tons of attacks

#

Ws5

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:38 PM

#

Pretty much. I've heard people have played test games with them and theyve said Justaerin bombs are really really good, for the reasons you've listed.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:39 PM

#

It may make a case for black reaving so you can deep strike them

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:39 PM

#

Unfortunately I don't think I can say the same for Reavers lol

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:39 PM

#

Reavers are bad

#

At least imo

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:39 PM

#

Yeah idk they're 2W WS5 but just.. SO EXPENSIVE.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:39 PM

#

Only actually bad unit I have seen

#

Vets are just better

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:39 PM

#

and no mobility options - lost Outflank, no JUMP PACKS, anything

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:41 PM

#

Should have just been 1W and been cheap

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:41 PM

#

Really.. they're supposed to be better Despoilers but they don't really fill the same niche. And why are they in Elites now?

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:42 PM

#

Cant figure out the unit after ten years

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:42 PM

#

Yeah - make them 1W, WS5, give them Outflank, and make them a bit cheaper. There, interesting unit.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:43 PM

#

Nope, gonna make them more expensive vets with no upside

#

Ah well, at least justaerin are great

#

And our legion trait is still amazing

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:44 PM

#

Yeah SoH are back where we started lol - one really fucking good special unit and another one that nobody takes ever

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:44 PM

#

RoW are just ok really

#

Maybe a little better than before? Idk

#

Really always liked the idea of Long March

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:46 PM

#

I think Long March is better now. Even with the Heavy restriction (which only really fucks like, HSS and a few dreads). flat +1 to movement is way better than the weird rolling bonus thing that didn't help as much consistently. And outflanking terminators...

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:46 PM

#

Outflanking terminators is interesting

#

Will see how it actually turns out but I like it on paper

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:47 PM

#

Black Reaving they changed a bit so you get the rage bonus as long as you charge one unit with two in the same phase, but Reavers suck still so it's still a bad rite. Not worth taking in and of itself just for deep striking Justaerin, esp. with the Heavy Support restrictions.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:47 PM

#

Black Reaving is really rough

#

But despoilers spam will really like it

#

Act like you are world eaters

#

Think we will just see a lot of long march or no legion specific RoW at all

#

Maybe pride of the legion with banestrike bolter spam

#

Have you gotten any test games of 2.0?

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:52 PM

#

Not yet. Still painting my stuff up. But yeah, Long march or bust imo.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:53 PM

#

Just walk it in

#

Still really sucks its just not reasonable to bring some quad mortars or deredeo

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:54 PM

#

Yeah deredero and quad mortars are the two Big Losers of long march along with HSS. Everything else can be put in reserves/outflank/a pod

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:54 PM

#

Also super sad outflank doesnt transfer to your transport anymore

fast reef Jun 2, 2022, 6:56 PM

#

yeah. I had hoped I could just outflank like, 3 land raiders full of terminators every game. but alas.

#

we can hope, I guess, for the final rule to change.

vast hornet Jun 2, 2022, 6:56 PM

#

Would be sweet

#

Would make a case for dropping scoring on the justaerin to gain outflank

#Sons of Horus Long March 3k 2.0 New to Marines in general