Like: can we make it AFTER we leave a transport?
#Thousand sons - 2.0 theorycrafting
narrow bramble
rotund helm
Every cult has a different trigger, which one you thinking of?
(Almost always make the roll before you know if it's going to be useful or not. )
narrow bramble
Well none specifically ATM as it will be for future list building
But as example: the hammer of wrath one
rotund helm
When declaring a charge, before rolling the distance.
nocturne cove
Sniper pinning I think is longer ranged and thus better for the beginning of the game where you will never be in range for Hallucinations
You can't hallucinate if your halluicinator dies before he gets in range
That's what your snipers and other longer range pinning is for. Keeping other snipers down
So that your caster can get in range and do his job
rigid narwhal
Well...Hallucinate -is- 36"....that's not exactly 'short' range
frosty plaza
Question:
Because a psychic weapon counts for if determining if a character has more than one weapon, does that grant Magnus an extra attack (should he choose not to fight with his blade, though idk why you would do that)
nocturne cove
Well...Hallucinate -is- 36"....that's not exactly 'short' range
Nemesis bolters are 72 inch range though which is my point really. They can hit targets your caster can't and those targets might be an enemy sniper team gunning for your casters. Shutting down snipers should be number one priority for tsons now given how vulnerable we are to them.
narrow bramble
yeah still don't have a strategy for getting the sniper down
maybe 2 scorpius
😆
rigid narwhal
Nemesis bolters are 72 inch range though which is my point really. They can hit ...
When are you ever going to have a perfect LOS 72" in any direction? If you do, you probably don't have enough terrain.
nocturne cove
Maybe not the full 72 inch range but it's not unreasonable sometimes to find yourself 48 inches across the board with line of sight to a target on the other side
Look all I'm saying is don't discount the power of ranged pinning and relying only on casters to do it
Snipers look so good this edition I am pretty much expecting to see a squad of snipers every other game
rigid narwhal
I just think there's diminishing returns when you have access to so many casters that can do it
You'd rather be spending your points on addressing other things.
Other armies that don't have as much access to powers, and/or better snipers, I fully expect to be running a few
nocturne cove
Tbh exodus scares me the most in a match up against tsons
That sniper is crazy good
narrow bramble
but sniper only have mk4 by default 😦
rotund helm
@frosty plaza maybe I think, so he can get the extra attack from his serpenta if he needs to. But loss of ap is going to be worse in most situations
nocturne cove
Tbh we did have mrk 6 depictions on prospero. But like all armour types our local "Achean" variant produced by forge world Zhao-Arkhad let's us do thematically whatever we want so long as its vaguely egyptian/greek/middle eastern/persian
narrow bramble
yeah but mk4 squad kinda look weird in the middle of mk3 legion
and yes mk6 also look weird af
rigid narwhal
yeah but mk4 squad kinda look weird in the middle of mk3 legion
The Achean heads and shoulders are technically for veteran marines according to GW, so you could put those on your MKIII stuff, too
narrow bramble
the only distinction on decal between my veteran and tac squad are the decal
cause i don't see why a veteran would want to change the armor he have been using for years
coarse hill
I just think there's diminishing returns when you have access to so many casters...
On board with this, factoring in your move you should be able to pin everything you want with halluc casters distributed around your dz with ease. And if everything is pinned on 2-3+ by them then having other stuff that can pin is actually pointless.
narrow bramble
On board with this, factoring in your move you should be able to pin everything ...
also don't forget you can use the automata as source of the power 🙂
coarse hill
I do think a couple vets with nem bolters might be worth it over a missile but it's not for the pinning or 72", it's ap2 and letting me take another cult
rigid narwhal
On board with this, factoring in your move you should be able to pin everything ...
also, the only thing you're going to be able to use to secure your DZ is the Telepathy action and the drop pinning.
nocturne cove
I see it as thousand sons are a tiny legion with access to pretty much a normal sized legions worth of equipment. So there's less boys and more toys meaning they can afford to be more bespoke and individualistic with their equipment and armour load outs
coarse hill
also, the only thing you're going to be able to use to secure your DZ is the Tel...
What do you mean sorry?
rigid narwhal
What do you mean sorry?
So if you're trying to prevent stuff like Intercept, you can't shoot to pin.
rotund helm
You need your Telepaths on the board too
nocturne cove
Though I don't subscribe to the "only a thousand strong" legion. That's a little dumb. It's more fair to say theyre like 40,000 strong before prospero burns. That still puts them well under the next smallest legion but doesn't make it sound stupid to call them a legion
rigid narwhal
You need your Telepaths on the board too
Yep, some of them. Osirons stand out there.
narrow bramble
Though I don't subscribe to the "only a thousand strong" legion. That's a little...
before prospero TS where around 80k strong
from the black book
nocturne cove
That sounds more reasonable
narrow bramble
the "only a thousand strong" was when they got to magnus
frosty plaza
IIRC they were still the smallest legion
narrow bramble
one of the smallest
emperor children also had some issue
and where down to ~300
narrow bramble
at the time of prospero it was similar size to all the small legion
at start of the heresy... well not a lot remained
CAUSE OF FREAKING RUSS
nocturne cove
Going by 40k lore it would seem sending away the 9th fleet saved quite a few tsons
So there's always a lore avenue there to base your army around a 9th fleet force
narrow bramble
yeah but it could have helped on prospero =p
at least the spacedogs lost a lot on prospero
nocturne cove
As well as all the tsons around the galaxy partitioned off to help other legions
rigid narwhal
So there's always a lore avenue there to base your army around a 9th fleet force
it's almost like the number 9 is important to someone.... 🤔
narrow bramble
it's almost like the number 9 is important to someone.... 🤔
joke on you I run my TS as the 10th company
🙂
rigid narwhal
joke on you I run my TS as the 10th company
That's just 9 plus a spare
nocturne cove
There were only 9 fellowships apparently measuring about 8-9k each
Plus all your usual auxiliaries
rigid narwhal
I'd love to hear how any AL could have possibly blended with TS.
narrow bramble
technically a good way to form your librarian
just infitrate TS and become a nerd
rigid narwhal
I think it'd be obvious when you're not a psyker
nocturne cove
Id imagine infiltration of the tsons would be a lot more difficult because its not simply enough to change your armour colour and credentials. Tsons literally mindlink when fighting and communicating. Fooling the tsons would be a lot more difficult and that's not even beginning to talk about the order of the Blindness would be sniffing out people like you every step of the way being legion intelligence
rigid narwhal
It'd be like the CIA infiltrating the NSA.
nocturne cove
It would involve learning all the secret hand shakes and double meanings of portents and spiritual teachings as well as the culture and the dialogue and ample amounts of history and occult knowledge beyond the Ken of a normal librarian
rigid narwhal
and covering all your telepathy
gotta VPN all your Warp Browser activity
plus the tutelaries
You'd think someone's pet would go, "Hey guys, something's up with this dude."
nocturne cove
I think the only way it could work would be to send a novice new librarian psyker recruit very early on to join the tsons and pretty much allowing them to go native for decades before activating them
rigid narwhal
I think AL would be better suited just being up front about it. Most TS culture seems to be very open about information, considering everyone can read minds.
and even when the sleeper gets 'activated' alarm bells would go off everywhere
"Hey, Bob's gone haywire."
He'd immediately have people watching him for Flesh Change and stuff
narrow bramble
well it's quite logic that prospero's society (including TS) would have rule against mind reading others
(kinda out of the theorycraft subject but well we are TS so we are nerd=p)
rigid narwhal
Yeah but there'd be enough passive telepathy, and again, the tutelaries.
nocturne cove
I think it's more a courtesy because everyone on prospero can read and mindlink with each other.
But there's nothing stopping an order of the blindness member invasively entering your mindscape to find out the truth
rigid narwhal
"Bob is suddenly a different color in the warp, we'll just check in he's okay."
narrow bramble
Yeah but there'd be enough passive telepathy, and again, the tutelaries.
well they are capable to fake being cringe and join the spacewolf
so they can do anything
nocturne cove
They only lightly touch on it but order of the Blindness are scary.
narrow bramble
i want some order of the blind units
nocturne cove
Similar tactics of the alpha legion coupled with psyker shenanigans
rigid narwhal
well they are capable to fake being cringe and join the spacewolf
That's not that hard, you just have to say you're -really- into wolves.
and your name isn't Moon Moon, they can trust you
narrow bramble
That's not that hard, you just have to say you're -really- into wolves.
yike
nocturne cove
i want some order of the blind units
I want ammitara intercession occult cabal back
narrow bramble
i'm 99% sure they will be present on the legacy pdf
nocturne cove
Hopefully
narrow bramble
with every removed units
pastel crest
Ammitara can be actually really strong considering the new sniper rule.
narrow bramble
especially if they get 2hp
pastel crest
Alas they are gone when they are becoming useful.
narrow bramble
if they release them i'm gonna kit 2 units of them at least
pastel crest
How unfortunate...
nocturne cove
"Can't let tson players have fun it's 2.0"
narrow bramble
tbh we are still good
just down to mid tier from OP tier
i'd bet Alpha legion may be the new S+++ tier
their -2 inch is so good
nocturne cove
Yeah I don't care much about being top end I just think some of the rules and choices made actively punish players more than work towards something that is fun and enjoyable with how some of the rules work and interact
narrow bramble
some of them (the fact a praetor can't activate force for himself) may be fixed soon
as it seems to be a mistake
pastel crest
The only thing make me unhappy is the strange wording everywhere our rule...
narrow bramble
same with the robots getting psychic power for free
and probably the absence of combi version of our special bolter
narrow bramble
The only thing make me unhappy is the strange wording everywhere our rule...
everywhere our rule
look at the admec stratagem the wording is... original
pastel crest
Lmao...
Btw, achean force is considered as force, so we can still Id daemon, right?
pastel crest
That make me happy a little bit. Daemon hunter fuck yeah.
And against word bearers😈
rigid narwhal
IW also seem really, really good.
pastel crest
Yeah. They are always basically super ig of 30k
nocturne cove
It's always fun to remind people the tsons were targeted first by chaos for destruction because of their anathema to demons.
narrow bramble
well we are the founder of the grey knight after all
rigid narwhal
The GK just finally learned to mind-wipe everyone before bringing them in.
pastel crest
Can we make a list of the loopholes of our rules and the reasons to justify them? I may want send a email to FW faq department after the proper release date.
narrow bramble
good idea
tbh send it before release
and protips: don't send an email but a proper mail
pastel crest
What we already have is:
- No rule prevents you from stacking psychic power.
2.No rule prevents you from stacking minor arcana.
3.IC like moritat can not activate their achean weapon
4.Osiron doesn’t need to pay 50 pts to buy cause psyker rules.
5.Same for achea.
Anything else?
Does no IC can be attached to khenetai count?
narrow bramble
no special combi bolter (not a loophole but i'm salty anyway)
narrow bramble
Does no IC can be attached to khenetai count?
well technically not a loophole
nocturne cove
Does no IC can be attached to khenetai count?
Nothing but apothecary or tech marines can join khenetai*
narrow bramble
not even primus medicae?
nocturne cove
And that's because they gain the rules of the unit they join (warriors of the Khenetai) and thus get mind song
narrow bramble
so it means the lead apothecary can't join his own cult
pastel crest
Are we sure that “psyker gain core discipline for free” still exist in final version?
nocturne cove
Are we sure that “psyker gain core discipline for free” still exist in final ver...
Supposedly someone had the full rule book leaked and it was in the final print still
pastel crest
😅Ok then
rigid narwhal
And just saying, everyone should send emails with their concerns. GW doesn't call them 'sometimes asked questions' after all
narrow bramble
the trick is to send mail and not email
receiving a paper mail is annoying as hell
pastel crest
I will add IC psyker can not take achean force weapons in it for reasons anyway.
nocturne cove
I will add IC psyker can not take achean force weapons in it for reasons anyway.
Khenetai lose mindsong of blades in that case
That's why it's such a huge problem for khenetai
Anyone without mindsong of blades joins? Mindsong switches off entirely
Means if you want to buff them as a unit you need an IC psyker trailing behind them targeting them for powers
narrow bramble
just follow them with a character in a breacher unit
nocturne cove
It's also not ideal because really you want them in a transport and guess what... they can't cast mindsong in a transport at the start of the turn...
So for the first round of combat when they get out and charge they will be without mindsong
narrow bramble
can't remember when you can detatch an IC from an unit
is it at the end of move phase?
nocturne cove
I think it's in the movement phase yeah
But mindsong has to activate at the start of the turn before any movement is done presumably
narrow bramble
so IC in the unit for +3''
oh shit
can you mindsond -> attach -> +3'' -> detach?
rigid narwhal
I think it's in the movement phase yeah
This is the real problem with Khenetai. It's start of the turn, not movement.
nocturne cove
I don't know
pastel crest
How many HQ can we have now? 3 or 4?
narrow bramble
3 plus allied detachement
nocturne cove
I don't know if you can cheese mind song that way or if independent characters can detach and attach in the same turn
narrow bramble
so 4
rigid narwhal
Since its start of the turn, they can't activate mindsong when leaving a transport or deep striking, meaning you have to walk them along
nocturne cove
Since its start of the turn, they can't activate mindsong when leaving a transpo...
And they're a 3+ unit of tactical marines...
pastel crest
Oh great, so deepstrike khenetai can not use their special power
rigid narwhal
so as-is, yeah, they're just overpriced veterans with 2x power weapons
pastel crest
This rule is stupid...
rigid narwhal
well they still are a good distraction carnifex
I'd rather have an actual thing than a distraction for their points
nocturne cove
So yeah any faq email should include how the rules for khenetai simply don't work with their unit in mind
rigid narwhal
like...a couple Contemptors
pastel crest
Added.
narrow bramble
oh shit 145 point is for 5
i was thinking 10
😆
at least they will look cool in the display cabinet with magnus
pastel crest
I am amused that we can still find loopholes after several days of intense seeking.
narrow bramble
before you can throw the key out as you won't need them
nocturne cove
I will still probably run two squad's of khenetai because they're cool
But they will be playing at a disadvantage
rigid narwhal
They're definitely a 'fun list only' choice
narrow bramble
same for sekhmet
rigid narwhal
which is fine, because this isn't 40k, but...
nocturne cove
Or I might just make a list of house rules to make them make sense
Along with moritats, achea castellax, the osirion, ICs and achean force weaponry etc
narrow bramble
so can we say that TS is for 'fun list only' ? 🤡
nocturne cove
Basically just rewrite the damn book to at least make sense
narrow bramble
(except the achea spam with psychic power that is not fun for your opponent)
nocturne cove
(except the achea spam with psychic power that is not fun for your opponent)
What do you mean Biomancy ×15 isn't fun?
I'm sure a strength and toughness 21 unit of Achea isn't at all broken...
Sorry they have achean force claws as well my mistake.
Strength 23
What do you mean a unit that can literally buff itself to the point it can bench press and snap a warlord titan in half is a potential oversight of the rules?
narrow bramble
Sorry they have achean force claws as well my mistake.
Strength 23
how do you get 23?
it's multiplier then addition
nocturne cove
how do you get 23?
Strength 6 and toughness base.
Biomancy cast is +1 Strength and toughness.
You can take 15 achea castellax in a list.
Buff target one unit with all of them.
They are now Strength and toughness 21.
Cast achean force. +2 Strength.
23 Strength and toughness 21
narrow bramble
hi, i'm a titan
nocturne cove
It's stupid
nocturne cove
They could literally walk up to a warlord titan and pick it up by its toes and suplex that bitch
nocturne cove
as they have shit WS
At toughness 21 I think most things in the game can't even wound them
pastel crest
I don’t think achea with discipline will remain, but even they don’t stack power on themselves, they are our best source of different buff powers I think.
nocturne cove
feral fox
Since its start of the turn, they can't activate mindsong when leaving a transpo...
I can't see anything in the new rulebook that prohibits psychic powers being used when in a transport.
feral fox
Where does it say that?
narrow bramble
well it's that way since warhammer v2
feral fox
That's not really relevant is it?
It might be there somewhere, but I can't see it.
There's nothing in the Core rules, the vehicle rules or the psychic rules that I can see that prohibits casting a power in a transport.
Now that will probably get Erratad.
nocturne cove
The only thing I could find in p3 so far is this
nocturne cove
I can't actually find ANYTHING specifically to do with casting.
I did find battlesmith though and it seems you can do that inside a vehicle... so if that's anything to go by so long as its not a shooting attack it's fair game?
This is phase 3 though
There's no reference made either in the psyker rules pages
keen jackal
I brought this up before in rules and tactics a bit ago, too. There's nothing in any book that stops you from casting in a transport. There's a big black hole of information on if you can cast powers out of a transport, or even target the transport you're in. But the rules DO say you can't use any abilities of units in reserves.
nocturne cove
Can you check the transport section?
I couldn't find anything but if you want a crack at it sure
keen jackal
It doesn't really matter for many psykers except for khenatai, since 90% of powers are cast after movement. Unless you wanted to give your transport precision shots without getting out
nocturne cove
I mean for khenetai is a pretty big deal...
pastel crest
Do you measure the bubble from Spartan? And opponent cannot snipe your psyker?
nocturne cove
Shield dome mastodon
pastel crest
We need something that can move in other phase...to be a mobile dome platform
nocturne cove
I mean the deredeo was meant to be the moving dome shield
pastel crest
That only provides 5++ though, right?
karmic bay
Have the Thousand Sons rites of war leaked anywhere? I’m not seeing it in the big list of legions
pastel crest
One is GotCK, one is let you take castellex achea as troop.
karmic bay
GotCK?
pastel crest
Guard of crimson king, let you take Sekhmet as troop and deep strike.
karmic bay
What are the limitations for each of them? Requirements?
pastel crest
GotCK is you must take Magnus or Ahriman or a psyker praetor, no allied detachment.
Castellex is must have a tech marine unit, every achea unit must have more than one model, and must have a pravien.
nocturne cove
Have the Thousand Sons rites of war leaked anywhere? I’m not seeing it in the bi...
The Thousand Sons have two Rites of War
The Achaean Configuration lets you pick Castellax-Achaea Automata as Troops choices, and you can shunt all of your perils results off onto them if they’re within 12″. Those models are considered to have the line sub-type while they’re near friendly Thousand Sons Psykers. Your cost for this is that your Castellax units have to have more than one model, and your detachment has to include at least one Legion Techmarine Covenant and at least one Consularis with the Legion Praevian upgrade.
The Guard of the Crimson King lets you pick up to six Infantry units in your Detachment to gain the Deep Strike special rule. When these are deployed as part of a Deep Strike Assault, they get the Fear (1) rule for the rest of the turn. On top of this, your Sekhment Cabals are troops. As a cost, you have to include either Magnus, Ahriman, or a Praetor upgraded to have a psychic discipline. Which, fine – you were going to do that anyways. Also you can’t use this with an allied detachment.
karmic bay
Thanks
rotund helm
GOTCK is so good. Even if you don't do mass deep strike, having the option there is good.
Mandatory psychic praetor almost always taking anyway
Sekhmet don't get Line so that's not great but whatever
The castellax one is a harder sell. Could be fun.. probably not Good
pastel crest
If I attached IC to a unit, is deepstriking them consider as one unit or two?
I guess two?
rotund helm
Um. Pass.
Magnus comes with it already though
You'd be mad to do all 6 outside of massive games
Unlees you do like.. minimum size support squads.. hmm
It's so good. It need a whole tactica for itself
But also a HUGE risk if you try and pull it off
pastel crest
No not gonna bring Magnus.
A complete Sekhmet Death Star use 4 slots of deepstrike...
narrow bramble
A complete Sekhmet Death Star use 4 slots of deepstrike...
isn't it one if you attach the character?
not fan of GoCK as it basically remove you a HQ slot
Achean one look really good for an allied detachement
(and no line on sekhmet)
@rotund helm allied detachement is especially valuable for TS as it give you an extra HQ slot
so another psyker
coarse hill
Wait can you ally thousand sons?
narrow bramble
you can always ally with yourself
pastel crest
isn't it one if you attach the character?
I thought they count separately?
narrow bramble
well the third company got help from the 2nd company
well you have to pay the HQ and troop taxe
but for TS HQ is not a tax
coarse hill
Just shift one of your 3-6th troops across, easy
Does being in a different detachment matter rules wise at all?
narrow bramble
well i'm getting a breacher squad in my next order batch
i think you can't be targeted by power
and can't be attach
or something like that
rotund helm
I don't think self allying is allowed
Despite it being logically and thematically fine
Also to clarify, GOTCK doesn't lock out allies, it just can't be allied itself.
rotund helm
Yeah it's almost too good. There's no real reason not to take it if you are using a praetor
Even if you didn't deep strike at all, sekhmet troop is handy.
narrow bramble
yeah even if not line
rotund helm
Ahrimans Warlord trait is better than i initially gave it credit for. Redeploy 3 units, which Can put them in reserve (so deep strike,). And gain an extra action in Any phase.
nocturne cove
Tsons aren't allowed a sworn brothers ally... even if it is themselves
rotund helm
and he's not much more than a standard paragon blade praetor. (165 with a psychic level, compared to Ahriman 185 (not taking credit for master crafting his shred pistol)
nocturne cove
I dunno it seems a bit strange you can't ally tsons to themselves but I guess it's to prevent shenanigans
rotund helm
(oh, all Praetors are Relentless, and can take sniper rifles.)
And Ahriman also gets Adamantium will 3+, so .. can tank perils, but don't do that. And his staff is Much better than a paragon blade.
Downsides to Ahriman: ws5 so can easily lose to other praetors, and has not very useful disciplines.
nocturne cove
Ahriman is probably as close to sigismund as we can get
rotund helm
And can#t take melta bombs 😢
hitting other characters on 5s is rough.
but S 9 is great
and initiative 6 is amazing
nocturne cove
Master crafted as well
rotund helm
yeah
pastel crest
Isn’t divination‘s psychic weapon pretty good?
rotund helm
Yeah its ok.
Ahrimans problem is all 5 of his powers replace shooting, so he can only ever do one. (and nothing locked in combat)
nocturne cove
Poor master crafted asphyx bolt pistol... that shit ain't ever going to be used
rotund helm
Idk if there's a psyhic hood nearby and you're running out of bodies
pastel crest
Nah first thing to do in the game for us is sniping things with hood.
My lascan Corvidae Osiron is ready for that.
pastel crest
Actually, can not use not-shooting psychic power because of locked in combat is sort of dumb...
lost estuary
Do we have any other sources of psykers not in the HQ slot barring sekhmet and osiron?
lost estuary
I'll wait for a faq for that first
narrow bramble
oh the faq will kill this
pastel crest
3hq, 1 Sekhmet, 2 Osiron, so in my plan there will be 6 psykers in my list.
narrow bramble
quite sad veteran lost the option to buy a full psyker
lost estuary
How are good is our unique wargear? The aether and asphx feel nice. Not sure about the force weapons but they do get force.
pastel crest
Almost equal to in 1.0, since didn’t take veterans as psykers.
narrow bramble
not x2
lost estuary
Ah
pastel crest
Depends, not bad though.
lost estuary
Hmm, swords still remain useless then
narrow bramble
axes ftw
lost estuary
Axe for ap and maul for s8
pastel crest
The most useful one is the force maul, basically s8 ap3 at i4
narrow bramble
but muh ap2
pastel crest
I will take that for my every apoth.
pastel crest
With biomancy axe is basically free powerfist.
pastel crest
Osiron’s can?
It’s going to be s11 with force, I think it’s pointless outside fighting tanks though
lost estuary
Force boosts the characteristics
And the force weapon has a strength value in the weapon
Unless the cheap force is different
narrow bramble
isn't force boosting the str of the weapon?
pastel crest
Achean force is directly +2 strength on your attack.
lost estuary
Oh interesting didn't know that
pastel crest
And that’s additional to any other modifier.
lost estuary
So we can boost with force and boost again with achean?
pastel crest
You can’t. There is no weapon with both achean and force rule
narrow bramble
(the full one not only ts one)
lost estuary
Don't the Tsons plasma get it
pastel crest
force wording
Wait, does this mean a +1 force weapon is s10 after force?
Tson’s plasma is just achean force.
lost estuary
Ah so when it says it counts as force it doesn't get force
lost estuary
Hmm so the advantage with our plasma is S8, no gets hot
At the cost of losing breaching
AP 4 plasma just feels so wrong to me
lost estuary
Ah yeah, 6+ turns it into ap2 right
nocturne cove
Slim chance but a threat to terminators and tanks
pastel crest
I wouldn’t count on that too much though. Moritat with double aetherfire will still be my first choice.
You need enough shots to bet on rending.
nocturne cove
I wouldn’t count on that too much though. Moritat with double aetherfire will st...
So long as you ignore the glaring elephant in the room...
lost estuary
Hmm?
nocturne cove
Æther fire guns use achean force go activate.
Guess who can't use achean force because of bad rules writing
pastel crest
Yeah but that’s still stupid 😅
nocturne cove
You can't perils on achean force
lost estuary
Plus they can use twin asphx
Well we are gonna slap a psykic on the moritat
It's our thing right
pastel crest
Nah, depends on what kind of target you want aim your moritat at...
12 shots S8 rending are most suitable to target middle armour tanks.
lost estuary
What about spamming heavy plasma cannons?
nocturne cove
Also an option
lost estuary
We have the jet bikes
nocturne cove
Hrm that is true
pastel crest
Small blast with rending 6+? I don’t think so...
lost estuary
Depends on how grouped up the target is
nocturne cove
Wow the jetbike sky hunter unit might be ridiculous lol
nocturne cove
They have firing protocols and can take volkite serpentas and plasma cannons meltas etc
narrow bramble
but jetbike are sooo expensive
lost estuary
Or a landspeeder, but idk if they can carry plasma
nocturne cove
Firing protocols (2) means they can split fire
lost estuary
It's a shame we can't replace twinlinked weapons
nocturne cove
Serpenta and æther plasma cannons might absolutely roll a unit
narrow bramble
or combi
pastel crest
How many points does it cost?
lost estuary
Can you fire the bolt pistol along with the plasma?
nocturne cove
Firing protocols 2
narrow bramble
quite cheap
nocturne cove
Yes
lost estuary
Oh nice
nocturne cove
pastel crest
Yeah guess it’s alright
nocturne cove
Serpentas and plasma cannon would be pretty scary
narrow bramble
wow good thing to have on jetbike
btw should i get 2 scorpius or 1 scorpius + 3 jetbike?
lost estuary
Is volkite good?
narrow bramble
Is volkite good?
YES
nocturne cove
@pastel crest
narrow bramble
so 2 scorpius or scorpius + 3 bikes?
lost estuary
Get bikes try them out
pastel crest
Oh entire team melta bomb, nice
lost estuary
They can be where you need them for anti armor
nocturne cove
Is volkite good?
pastel crest
<@454576302339522560>
A bit expensive though, 5 w1 cost 130 pts.
pastel crest
Wait, why additional members only cost 15 points? The tax is huge.
nocturne cove
Wait, why additional members only cost 15 points? The tax is huge.
Because they can get toxic flamers, rad grenades, phosphex bombs I.e. the bombs that do this to people
lost estuary
Hmmmm wouldn't the aether upgrade work for combi weapons
They still call it a plasma gun
nocturne cove
We're not sure but it should
nocturne cove
It should really.
But this is 2.0 tsons. There's a lot of things that should be possible that aren't for... reasons?
lost estuary
Hmm but with how good pinning is I wonder if combi grenades might be better
nocturne cove
Like our terminators not getting asphyx
nocturne cove
Pistols bolters and heavies
lost estuary
Bolt cannon isn't a heavy bolter
nocturne cove
It's the dreadnought one isn't it
lost estuary
And the robots
nocturne cove
Hang on...
lost estuary
Jesus who formatted the conversion beams
Na you don't swap anything to it
Unlike the bolter and bolt pistol
nocturne cove
Avenger with Shred would be funny
lost estuary
I would be happy with heavy bolters with shred
Seeing as you can find heavy bolters everywhere
And unlike plasma doesn't require the force test
So it works with vehicles
pastel crest
Do we think tactical with shred bolter worth it?🤔
nocturne cove
I mean there's only two weapons that are called bolt cannon
pastel crest
The thing is, actually by the rule
You can not exchange anything for shred bolter Cannon.
Only robot can have them naturally.
lost estuary
Yes
pastel crest
Which is... another stupid rule.
pastel crest
No it can’t
lost estuary
Huh, shame
I think the biggest advantage is the shred is free so if you have a bolter, no reason not to have it
Reduced range isn't much of a problem
pastel crest
It’s not, it costs 1 ppm
pastel crest
Yeah
lost estuary
Hmm idk then. Shred is good though
pastel crest
But is a tactical better then the scout with nemeisis
Tactical and despoiler can have 4+++ with an apoth, though
lost estuary
Different roles then.
narrow bramble
Tactical and despoiler can have 4+++ with an apoth, though
hmmm isn't it 5+++?
lost estuary
I think shred might be worth it on a tactical squad you park on a objective
Or if you have spare points which is great
pastel crest
Heart of legion plus apoth near objective is 4+++
lost estuary
Heart of legion?
pastel crest
New rule for tactical and despoiler
lost estuary
So tactical or despoiler?
pastel crest
As tson we can through biomancy on them to avoid iD, too
lost estuary
Do pistol still give melee attacks or something?
narrow bramble
As tson we can through biomancy on them to avoid iD, too
well biomancy is only during your turn
so it's ok but not THAT good
pastel crest
Oh damn.
narrow bramble
(ok, it's op but not broken)
narrow bramble
Do pistol still give melee attacks or something?
you can still use it in melee but it don't give attack
narrow bramble
well double melee
pastel crest
Yeah double melee?
pastel crest
So tactical or despoiler?
I would say tactical because fury of legion?
narrow bramble
tactical, they can still pack a punch in shooting
i'd say if you wanna go melee go assault squad
despoiler need too much babysitting
pastel crest
If you buy shred that’s really good considering multiple reactions. Let apoth take achean maul their combat is also effective
narrow bramble
If you buy shred that’s really good considering multiple reactions. Let apoth ta...
isn't axe better?
pastel crest
I would buy powerfist on the sarge
narrow bramble
isn't thunder hammer better?
pastel crest
So for me it’s fist for ap2; maul to kill as many 3+ save as possible
narrow bramble
pastel crest
If there is enough points, definitely
narrow bramble
thunder hammer is just sooo good
pastel crest
Aye, the extra points definitely worth it compared to fist
pastel crest
But considering what tactical can fight against, maybe thunder hammer on tactical is a bit overkill? Point wise.
narrow bramble
(well the other one have technically a staff but i'll use it as maul)
narrow bramble
But considering what tactical can fight against, maybe thunder hammer on tactica...
well it can make you snipe the other sergent
or at least scare him off your squad
(btw damn gravis power fist is strong af)
pastel crest
🤔 need a complete final version to write a actual list to see
narrow bramble
well all the weapon + special rule are now online
and we have a lot of the point
what scimitar jetbike are insane
16''
and deep strike
karmic bay
Even if you didn't deep strike at all, sekhmet troop is handy.
I thought people didn’t like Sekhmets?
pastel crest
So basically my list so far is
GotCK (maybe?)
Ahriman
Chaplain
Primus medicae
Sekhmet
2 tactical + rhino
1 melta support team
2 osiron las+fist
2 apoth
1 hss with las
1 leviathan + drop pod
2 javelin
narrow bramble
I thought people didn’t like Sekhmets?
sekhmet may be bad they are just too cool to not use
karmic bay
Also, does Troop do anything useful? It doesn’t give them Line, does it?
pastel crest
Wait it loses 2+ armour?
pastel crest
I thought people didn’t like Sekhmets?
They can be good if you stack buff on them.
karmic bay
I mean…anything can be good if you stack buffs on them
narrow bramble
So basically my list so far is
GotCK (maybe?)
Ahriman
Chaplain
Primus medicae ...
seems to atm
pastel crest
They are best you can stack buff with though, given they can buff themselves as a start.
narrow bramble
yeah but outside of that cheese having a unit that can self buff is just too good
kinda sad we lost access to tartaros sekhmet
as having a unit of terminator non heavy with their actual stat would have been insane
lost estuary
It's a shame we lost the upgrade for psykic terminators and vets
narrow bramble
well it would have been good to have the option on them and have it included allready on the sekhmet
the fact the psychic power is optional on them is strange
rigid narwhal
also they're the same cost as Justerians, but SoH are the poster boys
nocturne cove
Refined the process a bit by doing some washing and dry brushing on the gold layer prior to doing the red
nocturne cove
It's a very simple conversion as well.
Apart from the Khenetai and the rubrics all you need is a standard space marine backpack.
Also thanks
It's difficult to photograph but my new candy red mix method eliminates the needs for ard coat
It's naturally glossy already
odd edge
whats your recipe for the red?
tropic root
I really like it. I went for a custom job on the Khenetai too. Theres something about the standard kit + upgrade that doesn't look right.
rotund helm
There's an argument that the Shred bolters can't use fury of the Legion, because they aren't bolters any more.
That argument can get in the sea though.
coarse hill
There's an argument that the Shred bolters can't use fury of the Legion, because...
Another broken part of our rules 🙃
lost estuary
this is the way
coarse hill
so question, how much anti tank is enough anti tank
because we are incentivised to run stuff that is not good/mediocre at tank busting at best
pastel crest
Depends.
rotund helm
I feel like you'll need a reliable way to kill a spartan at range
I haven't worked out what that is yet
Sure as heck isn't Magnus any more.
Vindicators are good at inflicting damage now. So ..maybe . But they can't Kill tanks outright hmm
Teleporting meltaguns. Little 5 mans that can sneak past return fire.. maybe..
coarse hill
Vindicators are good at inflicting damage now. So ..maybe . But they can't Kill ...
which variant?
coarse hill
Teleporting meltaguns. Little 5 mans that can sneak past return fire.. maybe..
and by teleporting you mean DS in GotCK?
rotund helm
@coarse hill I was thinking regular ones just cos that's what I have. Haven't looked at the laser destroyers yet, probably better
pastel crest
Teleporting meltaguns. Little 5 mans that can sneak past return fire.. maybe..
Termites + 10 melta support team maybe?
Remember there is no ceramite armour anymore
rotund helm
Someone do the maths on how many melta guns is enough. 10 is probably overkill
ivory walrus
I'm planning a Kratos with melta turret and lascannon in the hull mounts. Will need some back up anti-tank which I've yet to decide on
pastel crest
Yeah 10 is for assured oblivion
narrow bramble
There's an argument that the Shred bolters can't use fury of the Legion, because...
Well the rule say they count as bolter
frosty plaza
Opinions on what force weapon to give techmarines?
Torn between sword and maul to fight at-initiative
lost estuary
Whats the Techmarine joining with?
pastel crest
Depends on if the attached squad has ap2 weapon
And generally maul is better than sword
frosty plaza
It's for achaean configuration
And he'll either be running with tac support rotor cannon squad or with assault marines
pastel crest
Axe fro support squad and maul for assault?
frosty plaza
Yeah I think that's the call
Assault squad can already take a couple of axes if needs be
narrow bramble
Axe fro support squad and maul for assault?
isn't it the opposite?
for support squad you want to kill as much shit as possible before they can strike you back
where with assault you will have a lot of chainsword hitting so the axe will have time to do it's job
pastel crest
But for assault you will alway have ap2 weapons to deal with hard cans so you will want a s8 weapon to kill as many as possible for combat result.
For support squad you almost can’t win a combat so you will want a ap2 weapon for one or two assured kills.
This is my opinion
frosty plaza
I went with the maul because my assault sergeants already have axes
Techmarine can accept challenges vs assailants that either don’t have AP2 or don’t have a 2+ save and beat them to death with the maul
pastel crest
I think assault sarge can take fist? Maybe consider that since there are plenty w2 units now.
frosty plaza
Also a good shout
Is the fist better than a thunder hammer? Obvs it's cheaper but the hammer has Brutal (2)
pastel crest
If you have extra points, hammer is better.
nocturne cove
Also a good shout
It's debatable.
You're already spending a lot on a Sargent so spending more to potentially get his ass shot before he can use it is not great...
But brutal 2 is nice
If you're looking for very cheap though force axes are the best choice. Strength 5 ap 2
frosty plaza
S7 if you get the power off
ivory walrus
Remember techmarines get a free str 8 ap2 attack at initiative 1 from the servo arm
frosty plaza
True
ivory walrus
I'm going to be running the same rite and I'm also struggling to decide what to do with my techmarine. I was thinking throwing him in a unit of khenetai and giving him a hammer
nocturne cove
The achean force sword is also very spicy being rending 6+
ivory walrus
That way if they end up stuck in combat with a dread they can threaten it
I'd love to stick him in the unit of castellax with the praevian to repair any perils that make it past the adamantine will (4+) but they have to join infantry
pastel crest
I am thinking... it seems attaching khenetai with apoth or techmarine is very worthy.
ivory walrus
Can techmarines actually take achean weapons? They have to take a power axe
frosty plaza
I'd love to stick him in the unit of castellax with the praevian to repair any p...
Can you not stick a forge lord in a big blob of your castellax for that purpose? IK it's an expensive way of doing it but he has master of automata
And he gets you thallaxes
ivory walrus
Waiting to see what the thallax darkfire has become before I think about doing that. I'd also like to play the list without having to wait till August
nocturne cove
I am thinking... it seems attaching khenetai with apoth or techmarine is very wo...
I don't think it's reasonable to suggest running khenetai without an apothecary
frosty plaza
I mean you don't need to take the thallax
ivory walrus
But they are cool
pastel crest
Yeah if I ever run a 10 man khenetai apoth is must have.
Maybe in ZM game they can be really good.
ivory walrus
My thallax are unfortunately painted as Xana so were absolutely on Prospero just on the SW side
ivory walrus
Can you not stick a forge lord in a big blob of your castellax for that purpose?...
Possibly if I run a second unit. Was going to use that third HQ slot for a moritat if they fix the wording on achean force
nocturne cove
I'm planning maybe taking a storm Eagle or two and keeping khenetai in reserve on standby and then having them rush onto the board. Unleash a hail of missiles for a turn. Next turn. Cast mind song. Land. Assault
frosty plaza
My thallax are unfortunately painted as Xana so were absolutely on Prospero *jus...
I mean Magnus psychically turned cybernetica in The Crimson King, not unthinkable that a forge lord or praevian may know the same technique
frosty plaza
I'm planning maybe taking a storm Eagle or two and keeping khenetai in reserve o...
Can they cast mindsong in a transport? I can't think why they couldn't but it seems like something that may have been covered somewhere
ivory walrus
Wasn't that some psy tech from old night though?
frosty plaza
Nope
Just manipulating the remaining human element in the robots
Gotta remember that they do have a brain still
ivory walrus
Oh I'm thinking about his primarch book
frosty plaza
Yup
rotund helm
@ivory walrus ..I've assumed so. I mean it's a power weapon..
pastel crest
I just can’t think of a target khenetai can safely kill and worth their cost in normal games.
ivory walrus
Ironically part of the reason I chose Xana for my mechanicum was because they were arms dealing to both sides for the first half of the heresy. Makes it easy to justify them being in most battles on either side, other than Tizca 🤣
ivory walrus
<@247791290412957696> ..I've assumed so. I mean it's a power weapon..
Yeah probably the wording is may swap a power weapon to an achean weapon. I'd argue where only one choice is available swapping like for like is the intention but might be worth a discussion with your gaming group
frosty plaza
Any 1kSons Character (not independent) can swap any power weapon for an achean force weapon, it's in the armoury section
So given that Techmarines are characters I wouldn't see why not
doesn't say anything about like for like
ivory walrus
Yeah but given natively techmarines only get axes, it feels a little gamey to me if you use that to give him a maul
frosty plaza
It also specifically says "any one Achea pattern force weapon"
If it didn't say "any" I'd agree with you
ivory walrus
As written absolutely go nuts, swap to a maul. I won't be doing it just because it feels unintended to me
Back to where the techmarine goes, does he bring anything to breachers? A second cult for getting raptora and either pyrea or pavoni? I was running 20 in a Spartan last edition and will probably keep them
pastel crest
Can tech marine still do repair inside a transport?
pastel crest
Wait a minute, no limit on how many times a transport can be attempted to be repaired each turn?
What about pack 2 tech marines in a Spartan and just make it unkillable...
ivory walrus
Only the number of battlesmith models that are onboard
Max 1 techmarine per unit, max 1 unit in a (non-superheavy) transport
Best you can do is 3, 2 forge lords and a techmarine. 4 in iron hands with an iron father
narrow bramble
Just discovered that the prospero decal and the ts decal sheet don't have the same scarab
😢
pastel crest
Yep
nocturne cove
Can they cast mindsong in a transport? I can't think why they couldn't but it se...
They can't shoot out of a transport unless specifically stated they can but nothing says they can't cast a psyker power inside a vehicle that only buffs them and isn't considered a psyker power instead of shooting
rotund helm
@narrow bramble lol yes. I've been alternating for variety
narrow bramble
<@313348000300662784> lol yes. I've been alternating for variety
I'll have to find some prospero decals then
rotund helm
Does servo arm still boost battlesmith ? Shame about servitors
narrow bramble
I'm only using the scarab for my veteran anyway
rotund helm
Also the only source of red TS icons which look great on white
And some symbols not repeated elsewhere
narrow bramble
Gold look good on cream/white
nocturne cove
Can they cast mindsong in a transport? I can't think why they couldn't but it se...
Although it's worth noting this is again an oversight atm because we also have the same argument said for telekinetic dome casting on vehicles like mastodon transports to cover half the battlefield in a shield so I feel like they're gonna have to FAQ this
ivory walrus
They can't shoot out of a transport unless specifically stated they can but noth...
Yeah it's a bit ambiguous. Previous edition precedent says you can't but given we don't have a psychic phase anymore I don't have a clue
ivory walrus
I don't think so. Let me check
frosty plaza
Best you can do is 3, 2 forge lords and a techmarine. 4 in iron hands with an ir...
5 if you have a primarch that has battlesmith technically
ivory walrus
frosty plaza
IW warsmith also has battlesmith
ivory walrus
Doesn't look like it
ivory walrus
I guess it's technically built in now. Wasn't battlesmith 6+ last edition
rotund helm
Machinator array is surprisingly spicy
frosty plaza
I think it was 6+ base yeah
rotund helm
But the Forge lord isn't super useful
ivory walrus
Yeah forge lord battlesmith on 2+
frosty plaza
True, unless you want thallax
Or have other automata you want to run him with like Iron Circle
ivory walrus
Putting a wound back on an achea on a 2 is fantastic but not worth the investment
ivory walrus
That could be an oversight. They might have forgotten that machinator gave +2 to rolls
rotund helm
He doesn't get any of the fancy auspexy equipment options though.. boo
frosty plaza
I mean it makes sense for a forge lord to be very good at repairs
I don't think it's an oversight
ivory walrus
2+ is what Ferrus gets though, seems a touch too good
frosty plaza
Given that it's 1/turn I think it's fine
You're spending quite a few points on basically just that battlesmith roll
Sure the character is capable in a fight but I think it's fine for him to be good at the one thing you expect him to do
ivory walrus
The forge lord is a bit of a hard sell. Most consuls are significantly more useful
rotund helm
Check the final rules yeah still a 2+
If you have a lot of high value vehicles. He could maybe hang around and put a force field up and repair
frosty plaza
The forge lord is a bit of a hard sell. Most consuls are significantly more usef...
Exactly, that's why I think the battlesmith 2+ is fine
rotund helm
Though, can't move and shield..
ivory walrus
Well if @nocturne cove is right and we can cast inside transports; just stick him in a spartan and bubble shield around the Spartan which can move
rotund helm
They used to have so much more wargear options.
frosty plaza
Fairly sure the unit inside counts as moving if the vehicle moves
ivory walrus
He sticks hull points back on the Spartan on a 2+ and you get a massive bubble
rotund helm
I think you can cast inside the spartan. I don't think you can treat the vehicle as the measurement point. You'd be thrown out.
frosty plaza
Or I expect it to be FAQ'd anyway
ivory walrus
What's the measurement point if not the Spartan? The character isn't on the table
frosty plaza
I think you can cast inside the spartan. I don't think you can treat the vehicle...
Thrown out of the vehicle or thrown out of your gaming club?
ivory walrus
Centre of the model?
ivory walrus
Thrown out of the vehicle or thrown out of your gaming club?
Get thrown out the club and have the Spartan thrown at you
frosty plaza
Get thrown out the club and have the Spartan thrown at you
Reasonable. Just hope it's a plastic one and not resin
ivory walrus
Mine is resin so better hope I'm fast enough to duck 🤣
frosty plaza
When my big box arrives I'll have one of each
ivory walrus
Yeah me too. Doubt both will see the table at the same time though
ivory walrus
Debating if it's worth tracking a set of the landraider doors down for my plastic one
frosty plaza
I got a set of LR doors when I got my magnus a few years back, have held on to them ever since for when I get round to repainting the spartan
nocturne cove
I wouldn't abuse the moving shield dome bubble thing but I think units like khenetai being able to cast their singular useful spell inside a transport isn't going to cause issues
Call it pre battle meditation or something
ivory walrus
The issue is people will abuse it and we'll get an FAQ that says you can't cast at all inside a transport :(
pastel crest
I really wish they can basically rewrite all of our rules in future expansion if we get one.
nocturne cove
Honestly if that ends up happening I might be tempted to house rule that khenetai get a rule called battle meditation that means all models with the warriors of the khenetai rule can cast mindsong in a transport
pastel crest
Maybe just change the timing of mindsong to when they move...
But the deepstrike issues still exist.
ivory walrus
When a unit moves or deepstrikes
pastel crest
Hmm, there is a debate regarding Corvidae in leak channel.
ivory walrus
Anyway back to theory crafting; landspeeders with double aether plas outflanking? Good idea?
pastel crest
Can we actually keep allocate wound as we want until the model we choose get killed?
narrow bramble
RAW yes
rotund helm
I assume you get first pick of first wound pool, then allocate as normal. So yes until the first model dies.
nocturne cove
RAI it would suggest it's the first wound only
pastel crest
It says “once this model has been removed as a casualty, any further wounds are allocated as per the normal rules”
nocturne cove
But no take that on a rotor squad and rip a single IC apart
pastel crest
That’s... funny.
rotund helm
Nah rotor is all about pinning at -2 with athanean
nocturne cove
It's probably the RAI
rotund helm
-3 with deep strike fear...
pastel crest
10 lascan, aimed at primarch...
rotund helm
I mean, yeah that is how it works.
Primarch can handle it though lol
They'll probably faq it as just the first. But that makes the wording make no sense.
pastel crest
😅 this ruleset really shits me.
rotund helm
It'll be fiiine
One primarch removed by corvidae lascannons and ppl will go back to saying TS is OP
narrow bramble
BTW as TS we should have a special rotor cannon named as reaper
no special rule
just lore
=p
ivory walrus
Never got the whole TSons are OP thing. Sure Sehkmet were amazing and Magnus could D nova things but that same book gave us talons and SWs who I'd argue were a lot worse
pastel crest
Magnus D nova definitely drops the ball, but after the faq we were really Okish.
ivory walrus
The FAQ removing the 3+ for same cult casting was rough
rotund helm
Yeah it was so painful
ivory walrus
I've always wondered if it was intentional, did they forget it wasn't 2 bullet points?
rotund helm
I think it was knee jerk cos everyone moaned about Thousand Sons psychic overload
ivory walrus
Magnus was always better as a biomancy beat stick anyway
rotund helm
Which.. has some legitimacy
nocturne cove
Never got the whole TSons are OP thing. Sure Sehkmet were amazing and Magnus cou...
Tsons were OP in one very specific niche build scenario it seems
Nobody can name anything other than magnus and skehmet
pastel crest
The real broken thing is 7th psychic rule, not our rule, basically
ivory walrus
I don't even think Sehkmet were that bad unless you ran a full list of them, a single unit was totally fine
rotund helm
I miss invisibility..... 😆 🤣
pastel crest
I mean even in 7th 40k, the leagues of hero combo with invisibility was stupid.
rotund helm
Fond memories of a Tau deathstar being teleported around by a space marine Librarian as that was allowed at the time
Couldn't deal with invisible belakor tho
ivory walrus
The powers were not written with the idea of brotherhood of sorcerers terminators popping shit off either
pastel crest
We really need ammitara now, hope they get a decent pdf soon.
rotund helm
Ugh. Apparently at some point in the past I decided All my Tartaros terminators had to have chainfists. Hopefully this isn't terrible...
Maybe I can find/make a good combi-volkite stl. All the guns are magnetised so swapping combi weapons is easy
nocturne cove
We really need ammitara now, hope they get a decent pdf soon.
Mind killer...
Rerolls to hit and to wound and all shooting ignores cover...
pastel crest
Huh... with how Corvidae rule is interpreted, I now think they are really good now...
nocturne cove
I honestly think it's first wound is allocated and then shooting as normal
Basically one precision shot automatic
I can't see them balancing the rest of the cults to be "sorta good but not great" and then make corvidae this super omega cult you must take
pastel crest
Nvm, hope it get faq soon.
narrow bramble
Btw i just checked the point for one of the nastiest terminator squad we can have access to:
5 man command squad with combi melta (except the flag) and Thunder hammer
not that expensive compared to sekhmet
and in tartaros you still have access to a 4++
pastel crest
Why?
narrow bramble
well 275 for a stock SoT
where this command squad would be 295
with better weapons
rotund helm
I can totally do that. (In tartaros..)
nocturne cove
Shame the command squad can't get the 25 point psyker upgrade
narrow bramble
a 5 man thunderhammer squad is... terrifying
rotund helm
And teleporting
pastel crest
I have a squad of tartaros too...
narrow bramble
and it can also melta the fuck out of a tank
pastel crest
They ws5?
nocturne cove
Tbh command squad's in general are terrifying...
It's just most other legions and their traits actually do something for the command squad... for whatever reason ours doesn't
narrow bramble
well we can have a 4++ on tartaros
rotund helm
35 ppm when sekhmet are 50 lol
narrow bramble
so it's not bad
nocturne cove
Isn't that only in 12 inch range
pastel crest
Think about it...
narrow bramble
btw we can also do it with any kind of terminator
narrow bramble
Isn't that only in 12 inch range
a squad with combi melta and thunderhammer want to deepstrike
nocturne cove
Skehmet are cattaphractii locked it seems which is annoying
Would be interesting if indomitus gets rules
nocturne cove
Though you'd be hard pressed to get a lore reason to have tson indomitus
pastel crest
Deepstrike tartaros comamand with Sekhmet, share a biomancy with them.
Boon, two squads of T5 terminator
rotund helm
Share?
Only nuisance is can't deepstrike tartaros and get the Raptora buff as written.
pastel crest
Assume you attach your IC with Sekhmet.
rotund helm
But might still be cool
Does the Command Squad have to go with a hq? Can't remember.
pastel crest
Don’t think so.
narrow bramble
you need a praetor in terminator armor to take one
but for deepstrike heavy list
it look insane
narrow bramble
same, i changed a tartaros head for a sot one and changed his torso for a SoT one
look good
rotund helm
narrow bramble
(and the head thing around the head)
will probably change the torso but not the head thing for the other termies
rotund helm
So.. swap them all out for hammers. Easy.
narrow bramble
to make a command squad
for command squad i'll magnetize
so many options
can't pick one =p
is it GK weapons btw?
pastel crest
It’s pheonix termies
pastel crest
Love the conver
narrow bramble
Just regret not going with the cape :(
narrow bramble
Love the conver
Just need a Sekhmet head and torso :)
(it's missing the gorget ATM anyway)
Shall look like that
pastel crest
Yeah look fantastic, the only design I don’t like about sot is they have two eyes.
narrow bramble
Yeah look fantastic, the only design I don’t like about sot is they have two eye...
before spraying it i had painted this dude in blue
and had put a big white mark on one of his eye
crossing it
pastel crest
That’s cool
narrow bramble
will send him once i paint him
should be quite fast as he don't have a lot of trim
not sure what to do with the sword tho as i usually airbrush them before painting the rest
nocturne cove
Been painting lately to some of the music suggestions I was given and Sabaton pillars of wisdom perfectly suits tsons
narrow bramble
Usually listen to "colour haze" their music are chill and allow you to focus on painting
and they all tends to be quite similar so you don't have to skip THAT song that sucks in every album
Damn thunder hammer are just THE BEST unwieldy weapon
no contest
Brutal 2 make them insane
for 5 points above power fist it's just... auto take
coarse hill
for 5 points above power fist it's just... auto take
issue is if you model them everywhere you know they'll nerf it
narrow bramble
true
but will probably print a shit tone of them once i get my 3d printer
and a good 3d model
coarse hill
the real answer is magnets
narrow bramble
just have more units
=p
i'll probably do a 10 man unit of every special weapon
so no magnet on veteran squad as i can just steal mans from my special weapons squad
pastel crest
Loving see how this new messy ruleset trigger people into arguing, lmao...
rotund helm
Yeah got the popcorn out
I'm gonna be restrained and wait till release before firing off the faq
pastel crest
Aye
narrow bramble
well i'll try to wait a bit befroe using the bs stuff
and mostly play kinda normal army
like tac squad and c
co
at start
rigid narwhal
I've got my email ready to go
rotund helm
The thing that annoyed me most out of all the rules, which is petty but true, is the 15 pts to give cult arcana to Osiron
Every other Legion gets to give its Legion trait to All Dreadnoughts, for Free, and a lot are better than cult arcana anyway
rigid narwhal
I'll chuck that in on the Osiron section
narrow bramble
cause a psyker dread is op af
rotund helm
It's not like they even operate as one unit. Doesn't make much sense. 50 pts is a Lot
Can I be bothered to go on about how Magnus is massively overcosted.
I mean, he obviously is, but the maths to demonstrate is lol.
rigid narwhal
I think I phrased it pretty effectively
nocturne cove
I've got my email ready to go
"How do you already have an indepth knowledge of our entire ruleset before even our store staff have grasped the basics of the new game to teach people?" -GW
narrow bramble
first version of magnus was actually well priced
adding another dice on psychic test
was worth 520 points
rigid narwhal
"How do you already have an indepth knowledge of our entire ruleset before even ...
"After having a chance to review the material via promotional outlets" is the line not in the screenshot
rotund helm
@rigid narwhal wheres that ?
narrow bramble
well
rigid narwhal
Nono, that's in my email above the screenshot I gave
narrow bramble
we are thousand sons
coarse hill
I've got my email ready to go
Can you put in a pastebin for us to use too? Also you may want to put Khenetai first in that section since that's the actually broken rule not just bad points. The two you may have missed are:
- Can Fury of the Legion and other rules specifically referencing bolters be used with Achean bolters?
- Can a unit have two or more arcana effective on it (i.e. Pyrae and Pavoni) if it has an embedded IC?
The issue of Psykers gaining powers I think affected BRB units too not just our own ones, like other contemptors?
rigid narwhal
Noted and added.
narrow bramble
Well furry of the legion work
as the rule on special bolter say it count as a bolter for every other rules
rotund helm
It says it counts as bolt
narrow bramble
GW should really have used the 8th Keyworld system
pastel crest
No bad for a confirmation
narrow bramble
it would have been realy good
pastel crest
I am musing at the wound allocation argument in that channel. It would be terrible to pit against custodes if you can spread wounds across characters.
coarse hill
there's the core rules ones of stacking powers and casting from transports ofc
but they're maybe a separate email lol
pastel crest
How can we have the most multi wounds characters in one unit? That would be disgusting with biomancy
rotund helm
Multi character units shouldn't exist with that awful rule in the game
coarse hill
I am musing at the wound allocation argument in that channel. It would be terrib...
been a while since I read it but I do remember something about always being able to allocate wounds to characters
rotund helm
Probably the only situation Thaumaturgy becomes worth it
narrow bramble
How can we have the most multi wounds characters in one unit? That would be disg...
10 men terminator/sekhmet
or veteran
rotund helm
They fortunately aren't characters
coarse hill
GW should really have used the 8th Keyworld system
honestly I am excited for this game but dear god the formatting of the rules and the wordiness of a lot of the rules is horrendous
pastel crest
Nah, they are not characters.
coarse hill
waiting on wahapedia
rigid narwhal
but they're maybe a separate email lol
I'm mostly trying to limit this to the Traitor book for concision purposes.
narrow bramble
honestly I am excited for this game but dear god the formatting of the rules and...
that's the issue with the 40k 2 ed system
it's so complex that there will allways be issue
but it's complex enough to allow you to have fun
and create your own stuff
coarse hill
that's the issue with the 40k 2 ed system
no reason you couldn't rejig how its written/laid out more
tbh
if they had a digital version I could click through to see special rules then fine, playable
but the amount of referencing to do, ugh
ivory walrus
the real answer is magnets
Magnets are for poor people, just buy multiple kits to get all loadouts /s 🤣
coarse hill
Magnets are for poor people, just buy multiple kits to get all loadouts /s 🤣
or people who hate edge highlighting marines 😉
rigid narwhal
or people who hate edge highlighting marines 😉
Protip. Don't edge highlight. Enamel wash.
narrow bramble
drybrush is the way
ivory walrus
That's just the crushing weight of wealth
ivory walrus
Protip. Don't edge highlight. Enamel wash.
Also this, and oils
coarse hill
I mean admittedly I made a rod for my own back when I decided I wanted super "neat" looking marines
big mistake
almost as much as primary colour yellow nids
rigid narwhal
also, this eBay seller wins for communication
ivory walrus
Fantastic
coarse hill
When allocating Wounds, a player may always choose
not to allocate Wounds to a model with the Character
Sub-type, regardless of how many Wounds that model has
lost or any other factors that would normally require it
to have Wounds allocated to it, as long as there is at least
one other valid target model in the same unit to which
Wounds may be allocated instead.
for reference btw - so looks like you can tank [wound total -1] wounds on your characters with impunity if not scared of precision shots
pastel crest
Let’s say this...
rotund helm
That's true, but you have to remember who is doing the allocating when you envoke it.
hidden quiver
Btw any of you have already a 3k. List of gotck? Not able to make one really😂😂
rotund helm
@hidden quiver there's so few restrictions now, Any 3k list can be Gotck, so yes, lots
rigid narwhal
Dropping in assault troops with a bunch of support squads behind seems good
rotund helm
Im honestly considering running my armoured company as GOTCK, because then I don't have to waste points on transporting some infantry..
coarse hill
someone commented validly that there's almost no reason not to take it for a generic list
pastel crest
Biomancy Sekhmet, Ahriman, Thaumaturgy chaplain, Thaumaturgy Primus medicae.
You can spread wounds before Ahriman, Sekhmet sarge, chaplains and Primus to avoid losing models.
rotund helm
Playing the wound allocation game is very risky lol. I think I prefer biomancy
pastel crest
And use Thaumaturgy to regain wounds.
coarse hill
if bio can stack then 100% it's the best option for a death star
pastel crest
Yeah it’s stupid, but just feels so edgy.
rotund helm
But yeah 3 Thaumaturgy options.. though remember it replaces shooting, so you can't do it in all situations
And S8 stuff will not even care
(Unless you have biomancy on, hmmmm)
coarse hill
(Unless you have biomancy on, hmmmm)
yeah you need at least one to allow you to dodge most ID
issue is it's only active in your turn by default
you have to cast it on a reaction
ivory walrus
I've got my email ready to go
Have just thought of another one for you.
In Achean Configuration Castellax Achea gain line when with 12" of models with both Legion Astartes (Thousand Sons) and Psyker, given that Castellax Achea have both LA (Thousand Sons) and Psyker they always have line. Is this intended?
rotund helm
Hahhhahahaaaa
pastel crest
But yeah 3 Thaumaturgy options.. though remember it replaces shooting, so you c...
At least Ahriman can be a little bit useful outside melee.
coarse hill
divination isn't bad
rigid narwhal
Have just thought of another one for you.
In Achean Configuration Castellax Ache...
Added. I'm a bit reluctant to Pastebin this, because I think spamming the inbox with exact copies of the same email might go over poorly, but if people can control themselves and reword it, that might be fine.
rotund helm
Yeah I'd not seen that one. It's so dumb. Achea clearly shouldn't have the psyker subtype.
ivory walrus
If they lose psyker will that not break the WiFi extenders? Given they become the source of the power when that's used
Also they need it for their achean force claws
coarse hill
classic GW rules writing of knowing exactly what they want and writing something that kind of describes that but not actually sitting back and coming at it from a no info baseline and thinking about the implications
coarse hill
Added. I'm a bit reluctant to Pastebin this, because I think spamming the inbox ...
if you can at least keep us up to date with a screengrab we can then write up our own words of the problems