#Horus heresy 3.0 rule book leak

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

dim pasture
#

Legion rules need to drop in pairs

humble brook
#

DA/NL
IF/IW
UM/WB
BA/EC
IH/DG
SW/TS
WS/AL
SAL/SH

#

idk the list started strong and felt more wrong at the end lol

dim pasture
#

IH/EC

#

BA/WE

#

DG/WS

#

Probably SAL/IW cause the box

SoH/IF still works

wraith plank
#

just finished reading the flyer rule

#

this is good

#

flyers are only in during your turn, you get to assign a mission, and a flyer with specific mission can only act in a certain way before being removed and go back to aerial reserve during your shooting phase

#

the only way to damage an enemy flyer is using reaction

#

but flyers get harder and harder to come back, the first time they come in on 3+, second time 4+, etc. till a max of 6+

dull jewel
#

What missions are there?

quaint torrent
#

Bus in, bus out, shoot and scoot, all out attack

near hull
#

The most 'offensive' of the missions, strafing run, can be intercepted at full BS, but it's the only one like that (We can also presume skyfire allows full BS interceptions against them all)

quaint torrent
#

Even at snap shots things like autocannons are going to duff up flyers with rate of fire and the new BS table.

near hull
#

Yep, but interception is called while the flyer is at the board edge, not its destination

#

So may be interesting to see how it shakes out

quaint torrent
#

Having played with a similar format in LI I’m genuinely stoked for it. It works very well there and I don’t see why it wouldn’t here.

near hull
#

Range limits on any intercepting weapons aside, it may encourage clever 'approach vectors' to avoid LoS of AA batteries

hidden cave
#

I can imagine Ravenwing specific detachments boosting this ability to come back next turn for flyers

near hull
quaint torrent
#

Flyers are potent, but true AAA scares the crap out of it and you get into some real thematic push-pull of ground forces trying to knock out air cover for your wing to come zooming in.

wraith plank
#

i like it

#

i like this a lot

quaint torrent
#

They also feel like planes, not weirdly hovering amalgamations of guns with a right angle fetish.

dull jewel
#

Will this be It?

#

Good flyer rules for Warhammer?

quaint torrent
#

From a core rules perspective? Quite possibly. From a datasheet / special rule perspective? We’ll need more info.

near hull
#

They've been good over the years at various times. We're just due it again

tribal jetty
#

when GW started making plastic flyers they ruined the rules so that they would actually have to stay on the table and they've never managed to figure that out

#

the old FW rules did have a provision for hovering, where the flyer would then behave like a skimmer, used for things like Valkyries

wraith plank
#

I think hover rule would still be there

frosty grove
#

I'm liking the flyer rules. Reminds me of the flyer rules for dropzone commander, which I loved. The intercept reaction is going to create some cinematic moments

languid badger
wraith plank
#

how so? I think it's quite clear

fleet dew
wraith plank
#

You set the mission and place the flyer during reserve phase, move full movement during movement phase, resolve combat air patrol and or intercept, then unit within 2 inch of the flyer model can embark, shoot defensive weapon, then gtfo

#

That’s my interpretation

languid badger
#

Good luck getting a unit lined up to be wholly with 2" of the base before you even move the flyer in a straight line

flat grove
#

Does it have to be wholly within 2"?

near hull
fleet dew
languid badger
#

Like, I guess it works if the unit is allowed to make a move after the final position of the plane is clear, but that's technically not in the rules

wraith pasture
#

I wonder if hover flyers still exist

wraith plank
#

Hmm where did it say unit cannot move beforehand?

fleet dew
near hull
#

It just says the flyer moves in the movement phase, so I don't see you being unable to just activate the passenger unit to move first

languid badger
wraith plank
#

"In the Movement Phase, a Model with an Extraction Mission can be selected and must then move up to a number of inches equal to its Movement Characteristic straight forwards without turning. At this point a Combat Air Patrol can be declared by the Reactive Player. Once any Combat Air Patrol Reactions have been resolved, an eligible Unit that has all of its Models within 2" may Embark upon the Model performing the Extraction Mission, even if that Unit has a Tactical Status that would prevent it from being able to Embark. Note that the Model assigned the Extraction Mission uses the edge of its flying base as an Access Point."

near hull
languid badger
#

Maybe the flyer is allowed to push models aside. That would also work

wraith plank
#

it uh, didn't say you have to complete the embarking in a single move, I think

#

you can move the flyer, then move the unit to within 2 inch of the flyer

languid badger
#

Move flyer
Resolve CAP
If unit in range, embark

wraith plank
#

It says Embark, there has to be a clear definition of Embark in the previous section

#

I'm inclined that Embark is a general action perform by unit during movement phase

fleet dew
#

You place it, it triggers, you move

wraith plank
# fleet dew

Oh, I thought it meant that the embarking model could not move

fleet dew
#

Which is better for the flyer if you think about it

#

Naaaaah

wraith plank
#

I have no issue regarding flyer zooming in straight line

wraith plank
#

Or does Unit A have to move -> embark, before going to the next unit

near hull
#

The difficulty will be this:

  • The flyer is placed on the edge of the board.
  • Interceptions
  • You can choose to move the extraction unit first in the movement phase to get them in a position where they will all be wholly within 2" of the final position of the flyer by the time it activates again and flies over
#

That will be tough for larger units, which is an interesting dynamic

wraith plank
#

yeah, personally I don't think it's going to be a big issue, but would be a bit weird if I had to land the flyer exactly within a 2" circle of the embarking unit

near hull
#

Hold on. Grabbing my Totally-Not-A-Nephilim Xiphon and feeling this out

wraith plank
#

regardless the gtfo happens at the end of shooting phase

near hull
#

Sure, but that has no impact on the embarking stuff

#

(I really am excited to see this system in action)

languid badger
#

There was some hints that vehicles can move through units, right? So if you can plunge the flyer straight into the place the unit is in and the models just get pushed aside, it would work

near hull
#

Also, for reference
This is how tight a squeeze 'wholly within 2 inches' is:

near hull
rare crystal
#

where did I miss this??

near hull
#

It's presumably just an edit of the template

#

Lmao
You got got

It happens
(Though I guess delete it to avoid it confusing people)

pale basalt
#

nothing ever happens

bright cave
near hull
humble brook
humble brook
timid cliff
#

The „wholly within“ for extraction also means you cant pick up models on bases over 50mm right?

near hull
#

Tight enough that it kinda takes me out of it a bit. See my photo etc

fleet dew
near hull
timid cliff
near hull
#

Can't remember
It's not legion lists I'm worried about for that rule anyway!

surreal hornet
#

the thing with the new flyer rules that im worried about is the "becomes harder and harder to bring them in from reserves" thing

#

so realistically you get what, 2/3 uses of them per game? feels kinda low given most of the modes that let you fire weapons only have you snapshoot

#

so it will be a real balancing act between their damage output/cost

fleet dew
surreal hornet
#

is it going to be very different here?

fleet dew
#

Absolutely

surreal hornet
#

interceptor still exists, and snap shots are stronger than ever

fleet dew
surreal hornet
#

they used to be just hit on a 6+

#

with regards to snapshots

fleet dew
#

Units can only react once per turn so will the enemy shooty unit intercept the flyer or save the reaction for the shooting phase?

near hull
fleet dew
surreal hornet
near hull
#

Another element though, is that intercept happens at your board edge, rather than their destination

surreal hornet
#

and its not like flyers are (probably) any tougher in real terms

near hull
#

So it may mean some AA can't get a good shot, or range

fleet dew
surreal hornet
#

smart positioning to deny any actual interceptor reactions

near hull
#

Also, flyers only having a single AV may be interesting for survivability

fleet dew
surreal hornet
#

could be, but im guessing its going to be like 10 or 11

near hull
surreal hornet
#

on a xiphon at least

near hull
#

Yeah we'll see

surreal hornet
#

fire raptor/storm eagle are probably AV12

fleet dew
surreal hornet
#

another thing though is that GETTING points for flyers will be hard. Because if you just have a lot of AA saturation the enemy can decide to just have the flyer leave, so I could see some potential points denial shenanigans with them depending on what the missions are like

#

less a unit and more like orbital bombardment (the old chapter master rule) you use like once a battle

fleet dew
#

Kill point missions are not worth the paper they are printed on. Such a lousy concept

surreal hornet
#

still, the points costs will be crucial, I dont think expensive flyers will work, or that flyer durability will be very premium (because despite my worry about interceptor, thats still realistically just one shooting attack per turn, they dont need to weather repeated/concentrated firepower)

fleet dew
#

I expect that the new core mission will be the mission we see in the new rulebook.

surreal hornet
#

yes, I would assume so

#

although I wonder how different they will be, I think theres two options: its just the old ones reskinned or its going to go all in on the new characteristics and have lots of int checks and stuff

civic acorn
fleet dew
#

Uh interesting. Maybe we will need intelligence for objectives and such. Could be a thing, yes

humble brook
surreal hornet
#

Where the mental fortitude of a warrior was previously represented by Leadership alone, there are now four Advanced Characteristics for each unit. These are Leadership, Willpower, Intelligence, and Cool – which oldheads will remember from the Rogue Trader era of Warhammer 40,000, and which add more nuance between units for a variety of in-game tests.

A Legion Psyker might have very high Willpower, while a tech-adept or communications specialist will have high Intelligence. Here’s how that looks on a Legionary:

Its not outright confirmed, but im trying to think of what other tests you would need "comms specialists" for

civic acorn
#

Reserves manipulation

fleet dew
surreal hornet
#

Oh thats cool

#

I wonder if theres one that makes your aircraft come in more reliably

civic acorn
#

I would assume so, and probably intelligence tests used for stuff like vox disruptors too

teal basalt
#

heresy definetly has more opportunities to use intelligence than say MESBG, where the stat was implemented for borderline no reason

wraith plank
#

the entire special rule got leaked

#

we have 48 in total

winged vapor
#

Now?

near hull
#

Yep, some cut, some rolled into another rule. Like Impact (A) replaces Rage, Impact (S) replaces furious charge etc

winged vapor
#

wheres that?

near hull
#

Someone else will need to post the imgur link, can't dig it up atm.
It's just the person posting more stuff on 4chan again

#

Missions and the full special rule list

winged vapor
#

found it

#

in 4chan

winged vapor
#

is twin linked gone?

near hull
#

Yep, and mastercrafted

winged vapor
#

ordnance seems a bit too much

#

2x modifier?

trim seal
#

almost all rerolls are gone now i think

near hull
crystal granite
#

Reaping Blow got a minor buff by my reading? The fact that bulky(X) now counts as additional units. Does that mean that someone with a scythe can do a reaping blow if toe to toe with a leviathan, etc.?

flat grove
#

Anyone have a link?

near hull
#

An imgur link was posted in the actual 3.0 rules channel, if you scroll up. you'll find it! (Unhelpful, I know)

near hull
crystal granite
#

So I assume most scythes will be Reaping Blow (1) but morty will get like Reaping Blow (3) or something.

near hull
#

To decide whether you're outnumbered

crystal granite
#

Ohhh, right right, I did misunderstand you. Thanks for that clarification.

#

Scythe users rejoice!

near hull
#

Wait.
WAIT.
(I shouldn't be surprised you're a DG player, in hindsight)

#

Mortarion's bulky letting him just solo small squads is VERY funny

crystal granite
#

Small squads of deathshroud running about will be even funnier.

near hull
humble brook
near hull
humble brook
near hull
#

No clue! It's just there for me, above The Observatory category

humble brook
#

guess I have to go looking for it

image.png
#

found it

fiery widget
#

Isn't that just this thread we are already in?

near hull
crystal granite
#

The other thread moves too fast to keep up, so I check in here to see if there's been any leaks before wading through that one.

#

For anyone doing the same: tonight anon posted the pages for the special rules and the core missions.

bright nova
bronze oxide
#

Any new leaks/links?

nocturne topaz
bright nova
dark lion
#

Woah big buff to battlesmith with it potentially being able to repair multiple hull points/statuses

#

Hope the HQ techmarines get battlesmiths higher than 1

#

OMG multiple blast template attacks were fixed. It's not annoying anymore😍

dark lion
#

Outflank was fixed yippee

#

They fixed rad phage holy shit. I didn't think it was possible

full tapir
#

Phage looks quite scary now

flat grove
dark lion
#

The vanguard rule looks fun. I can see destroyers having the no scoring objectives rule but having a high vanguard number

bronze oxide
#

Hope my arquitors are good finally. Ordnance rule seems good

bronze osprey
#

Quickly running through the mission pack, I'm to assume this means no more Night Fighting?

bronze oxide
#

I hope theres some form of it in the actual nightlords rules or something

near hull
#

The way I see it, I've always been kinda weirded out by night fighting (rules) being a thing in the 40k setting at all. Even for mortal armies (except the most decrepit cult armies, maybe), night vision equipment would be trivial at the scale of abstraction the game has, and with so many superhumans running around.

So I think the fear factor of the NL shouldn't actually factor into whether it's actually dark outside, yknow? It also means they can write NL rules to exist in their own terms and not have to factor in night fighting impacting it

That, and it's crazy how much impact darkness has had on shooting and morale, for a scifi setting with post-humans and demigods, across so many editions.

fleet dew
#

To me night fighting was a stand in for bad vision environments like electricity storms, huge smoke and ash clouds, green poisoning mist and so forth and not just darkness

near hull
#

Well yeah, that's the only stuff we'd actually use it for in games we played. Especially ZM, weird cityfights etc.
But night fighting as a standard mechanic, yknow?
Felt out of place (to me)

bright cave
#

Is it confirmed that there’s no more bonus attack for charging or having 2x CCWs? Also have the rules for weapons (like assault, bolt, etc) leaked yet?

near hull
#

Latter, nah, but those weapon type indicators are almost certainly just keywords

#

+1 to whatever for Bolt Weapons as fists etc

#

Assault is different, we've only seen it on the bolt pistol profile, and is what indicates that a weapon can volley fire. So isn't related to the old assault weapons rule, since we know meltaguns don't have it, thankfully

dark lion
#

So seeing that and the changes to melee make me concerned about how melee is gonna look this edition

near hull
#

I mostly play all of my armies as melee-centric, so I get it
It's actually my main concern I've got, but I'll need to see how it goes.
It's just that THEMATICALLY the NF rule was odd to me

pale basalt
dark lion
pale basalt
green torrent
#

cant wait for all people that scrambled to by multimeltas because its the new hot thing to realise they might not to be able to score a single point with them at all due to Support Squad rule

dark lion
#

Which... doesn't seem like a good sign tbh

pale basalt
#

so actually trying to deploy them to anyones advantage is near impossible

dark lion
#

Ahh good point

pale basalt
#

and even if you choose the corner to deploy objectives that is always in a deployment zone

you might just lose the rolloff and then the opponent chooses that spot

#

and then you are super fucked against melee

hidden cave
#

there are new leaks flying around

pale basalt
hidden cave
#

most of the special rules and complete core mission pack

pale basalt
#

that is old news

languid badger
#

With TSS and HSS presumably now being in the same detachment fighting for slots, I wonder how they're going to balance that. The HSS is now way more mobile and brings more fire power in a single slot.

So both advantages of the TSS, mobility and availability, seem to be gone?

hidden cave
#

TSS is now vets I believe

#

from what they showed so far vets are BS5 and able to take special weapons with a heavy upgrade 1/5

green torrent
dark lion
#

They deserve punishment for their 2nd Ed crimes

hidden cave
#

HSS are going to be pretty vulnerable

#

and easy to counter

ruby vigil
#

Tactical Support Squads have Line, and/or HSS may have negaLine

hidden cave
sick nimbus
#

YES! I CAN MAKE ARMIES OF ONLY SUPPORT ALL FLAMERS LETSGOOOOO

last bone
#

Hmmm

#

Can you build a space marine army with only one space marine is my new thought process

#

Spam tarantulas and the new turret, all led by one centurion

wraith pasture
#

"You can't make your own legion company"

"The hell I can't!" -Some Random techmarine

brethren of iron and tarantula spam

last bone
indigo kiln
# hidden cave

huh, I'm trying to figure out how a high-Line character could end up in a support unit

#

I guess some HQs have a Line value?

#

That would make sense.

#

So you're disincentivizing sticking a Line 5 Herald, let's say, into a melta squad

#

but you'd still score as if Line 2, which is more than they'd get otherwise, so it's not totally negated

hidden cave
#

but you can negate scoring in so many different ways

#

apply one of 4 statuses to them, charge them from within the set-up move (which negates Overwatch reaction)

dim pasture
fleet dew
#

Anything new since this morning?

dark lion
#

Outside the special rules and missions leak, nothing else

winged vapor
#

I just noticed that the missions are 4 turns only.

#

I truly hated that

#

It's one of the reasons that the siege of cthonia missions are bad.

idle falcon
#

What is it with GW putting awful missions in the core 30k rulebook? My group usually ends up homebrewing missions

near hull
fierce sundial
#

is there another link to the rules leaks?

idle falcon
dim pasture
teal basalt
#

hopefully it is FAQ'D to become "at the end of the movement phase, one units withing 2" may embark"

hidden cave
#

It has to be

#

because it's not applicable for Stormbird - neither it has a base nor it's limited to carry one unit only

#

or maybe Stormbird will have asignments on its own?

teal basalt
#

we havent seen super heavy rules yet, so who knows

marsh viper
#

It seems you can now shoot and charge is that correct at least from what I’m reading in the charge rules?

idle falcon
marsh viper
#

I just figured since in the choose enemy target step it doesn’t mention shooting and assaults purpose seems to be different

vital field
#

do we know what detachment slot the new tarantulas are in ?

teal basalt
#

Probably support with everything else lmao.

vital field
#

DG screwed even more then :D really hope some legion specific stuff will sort it out ^^

indigo kiln
#

what, DG screwed by focusing on bread-and-butter units like they're known for?

vital field
#

by the need for too many consuls, we'll find out soon either way

pale basalt
#

with the amount of consuls available to astartes i am sure something will be useful

fleet dew
pale basalt
#

have we seen a fortification detachment?

crystal granite
indigo kiln
#

I think having a bunch of generic-ass consuls isn't the worst of fates

#

but I get the idea. maybe legion stuff will take the pressure off.

vital field
#

nothing wrong with the consul modeling side of it, it's just points taken to get them and the faff of the new org chart,

rigid canyon
#

Weird question but with the new flyer rules do you even need the models anymore? Everything being they come on and off in the same turn... Couldn't you just roll the dice and leave the model at home? 😅😅

bronze oxide
#

Cant wait to be constantly putting on and taking off 3 xiphons in my alpha army lol

near hull
fleet dew
rigid canyon
#

It's just gonna be such a pain to constantly move a resin thunderhawk on and off the table. Genuinely easier to just slap the base down 😅

indigo kiln
#

you can if you want

#

there's nothing wrong about a cardboard deff dred, in my book

#

but it does emphasize the point that the models are ultimately just abstract tokens that we have chosen to fancy up

fleet dew
rigid canyon
# fleet dew Get stronger. 😎

That doesn't work on resin... It can't go gym. If it falls it's shattering into a million pieces regardless of how many bicep curls your do 😂

rigid canyon
fleet dew
languid badger
#

Related: do reserves still start at the second turn or can flyers come onto the board in the first turn.

#

Would maybe be nice with 4 turn games

teal basalt
indigo kiln
fleet dew
fleet dew
slender patio
#

So, I've had a look through what we've seen so far. Any idea how flamers (assuming they have Assault) work regarding Volley Fire in assault? Can they snap fire?

acoustic gale
#

it took them an entire page to explain how to place the template, volley fire with templates is probably another page or two

hidden cave
near hull
#

We can just be glad, if they CAN volley, that it can't cause panic hah

hidden cave
#

But templates are nerfed in other way

#

You no longer can fire if friendly model (even from the same unit) is under the template

#

So letting them fire as normal on snap shots seems like evening the odds

#

And this is very interesting: template weapons can have higher RF

#

In such case you multiply each hit by RF value

near hull
hidden cave
slender patio
near hull
fleet dew
#

What I think is a shame is that they again didn't include a side picture which shows how the templates need to be applied. RAW we have to physical touch the base of the shooter with the tip of the template which creates all sorts of questionable situations and problems. Like shooting it over a small wall when the model stands directly in front of it.

slender patio
#

Yeah, obviously it's all wait and see. Just sat here with half an army of Salamanders clutching my pearls over whether they're gonna kick or suck ass.

#

I mean, hopeful as they the edition poster boys

indigo kiln
thin mason
short tiger
#

Hopefully that’s not too far away

teal basalt
#

I can’t really be annoyed with GW if somethings off balance this Ed. They’ve changed around so much stuff that they have no chance at guessing what’s good.

acoustic gale
#

Never having to balance your game because you rewrite it every 3 years is big brain stuff

#

Your guys suck? Doesn't matter, you'll get to spin the balance wheel again before you're done painting them

bright cave
untold palm
#

Counter point, many of the changes were either taken from older editions and are know quantities, favorite rules of the head of the specialist team, or taken from one of currently managed and balanced specialist games. There is a decent chance that this edition might be one of the more balanced releases from GW in a long time.

bright cave
untold palm
#

Very true

teal basalt
fleet dew
#

Ok, if nobody has the guts to say I have again to step in: It's sunday afternoon. Why is the lazy bastard not online and post new pictures of the ruleset?😉

pale basalt
fleet dew
full tapir
#

Leakers and just taking pictures of the rules in order the first time challenge, difficultly: impossible

fleet dew
#

Apparently

last bone
teal basalt
#

Just need movement, veichles and other unit types really

#

Oh and shooting rules

warped arrow
timid cliff
#

He is from the us

pale basalt
surreal hornet
fleet dew
warped arrow
fleet dew
#

I felt like a freak there for a second

humble brook
#

not a dad but I'll have a drink to celebrate them lol

last bone
fleet dew
#

Funny enough since I became a father I never had time to do anything on fathers day😅

hidden cave
#

When do you think 3ed will be on preorder?

fleet dew
#

5.7.

last bone
#

Tbf it'll be two mothers days in one day

fleet dew
last bone
slender patio
#

Father's day for me was throwing my child in a paddling pool, going to a park, then taxing adopted granny into child care so I could gossip about new Heresy rules 😅

crystal granite
#

I am getting some alone time in the garage with my airbrush. 👌

warped arrow
tepid crown
#

Where are the newest leaks at? Anything this weekend

hidden cave
#

Good question, any more leaks?

pale basalt
#

my basement has a burst pipe if that is what you are looking for

i will only let you in if you are a plumber though

fleet dew
#

WHERE ARE MY LEAKS!

sudden walrus
#

at bpdonald10's place, obviously

grave plume
slender patio
zealous wharf
#

It would be great to know whether the WS hit chart has changed

grave plume
#

yea that's gonna be a big make or break for me

inner dragon
#

That was literally the first thing that was leaked, "WS chart is 2.0s"

merry maple
#

Didn't one of the confirmed leaker said it didn't change ?

timid cliff
#

but we never got proof

dark lion
zealous wharf
inner dragon
zealous wharf
#

Some of those are wrong based on the actual images, but I doubt it would be easy to misinterpret the hit chart

near hull
#

It's important to note that the person who said it, was the same person who actually posted the pictures from the books. He described some stuff via text, then switches to images

zealous wharf
#

Yeah, not saying they're lying, just that they obviously skim read some rules incorrectly. That would be harder to do with a chart of simple numbers, so I'm assuming that's correct.

near hull
#

I hope it's at least a bit different from 2.0, personally, and he missed it

fleet dew
#

I hope it is the same chart.

dim pasture
#

I dunno, as someone who had decent access to WS5 I felt bad for WS4 units trying to fight WS5

grave plume
#

it was a big contributor to how world eaters felt overall
pushed rampagers even harder for most people, which worsened the perception of falax blades because lmao who isn't taking falax blades on them

fleet dew
turbid fiber
full tapir
sudden walrus
full tapir
#

WS4 Iron Cirlce make me incredibly sad and i hope 3.0 buffs them up a bit

near hull
#

If they get their 'buffed if taken with Perturabo' rule still, it's already looking more positive, since they won't count towards the 25% anymore

#

Rather than being locked to 3500pt games or whatever it was!

dire gale
near hull
#

Them presumably being retinue, so no longer part of the 25% in the new Force Org is cool, at least. If it works roughly similar, they should be easier to take

full tapir
#

Its fun to throw them on the table, but as a retinue they have to be the worst in the game

#

WS4 and no Chosen Warriors

dire gale
dire gale
near hull
#

If they're still WS4 that's a bummer, but WS5 automata are a tough sell imo.
The 25% rule changes at least makes them more... Accessable

near hull
dire gale
winged vapor
warped arrow
#

Any word if this guy is gonna keep leaking?

untold pollen
#

said thursday he was busy with work and was gonna leak over the weekend. then big leak friday night of Special rules and missions. then nothing heard since. so assuming busy

fleet dew
#

GW FOUND HIM

near hull
#

There's some stuff left that he could still leak, but 90% of rules of interest have been posted, so it's down to just pages that might clarify other things we've seen.

It's otherwise just waiting for libers at this point 😬

sudden walrus
fleet dew
#

Just a psycho in a bird costume

dim pasture
dark lion
quartz spade
#

I’m still trying to wrap my head around why they are changing what models can receive wounds. I loved the fact that the only models that could be engaged and receive wounds had to be in LOS and within range.

quaint torrent
#

Because sweeps are gone

acoustic gale
quaint torrent
#

We don't have shooting phase rules yet, so TBD

#

Fight phase allows for models not in engagement (in a unit that is in a combat) to have wounds allocated to them

idle falcon
#

I kinda hope that shooting casualties are limited to visible models only, but when it comes to melee it makes sense to me that the entire unit would get involved

dark lion
bright cave
#

I personally am happy you can put wounds on mooks in the back

tribal jetty
#

4th and I think 3rd worked like 2.0 I believe

#

it was just 5th that had you picking from any model

#

6th and 7th (and by extension 1.0) had you starting from the closest model in LOS

#

the 5th edition version is the laziest and my least favorite

#

lol it's hilarious that they give this reasoning this but then completely ruin all LOS abstraction

image.png
bright cave
#

How’d they ruin LOS abstraction?

#

Is it cuz of the intro of TLOS?

tribal jetty
#

Basically yes

#

One of the reasons you ever ever ever see forest terrain anymore

#

the other being that GW hasnt sold kits for it in ages

bright cave
#

Personally I like both methods. They each have pros and cons

#

Though 4th and before did have a lot in common with fantasy terrain rules at the time, and I’m a huge fan of fantasy terrain ru

tribal jetty
#

TLOS mixed with 5th's casualty removal rules is basically the worst possible combination

#

since you could theoretically just wipe a whole unit shooting at one model through a tiny gap in a window

#

it's just dumb

#

at least the other casualty removal methods keep it somewhat under control

#

regarding things for 3.0 we still haven't seen, I really want to see the rest of the vehicle rules

#

I have a suspiscion that the different movement modes are gone, but I will be quite upset if things like firing arcs are gone as well

#

Well, I got on that train of thought because the template rules say something like "place anywhere on the firing vehicle's hull" but I guess the flyers section also specifically calls out centerline mounts

#

yeah I guess that's not something to worry about

image.png
flat grove
tribal jetty
#

sure, but it's melee so it's kind of whatever

warped arrow
#

I'd imagine they'd keep shooting wounds only being able to be allocated to LoS of the shooting unit. That made sense and worked fine.

tribal jetty
#

the lack of sweeping advance might make it less of a big not losing attacks

warped arrow
#

Most people I've played games with play it how 3.0 wrote it. "Fuck it, everyone is in it. Pull whoever."

#

I really like the new post combat step

green torrent
#

by not being in engagement range and only piling in later

tribal jetty
#

as someone not totally ingrained in the close combat process (originally a Tau player lol...), the new system does sound cool

green torrent
#

the whole ruling was a ripe field for abusing

#

i did the same thing against dreads all the time, by stretching destroyers into a line so contemptor couldnt kill more than two

#

and im not ashamed of it, but the way it works needed to go and thankfully it did

sweet geyser
#

God that sounds miserable lmao. We always just full sent it

wraith pasture
#

Wait people were actually abusing pile in mechanics to game combat?

#

That's actually rancid

bright cave
#

I killed a bunch of his dudes at I5 and he removed his models in a way to create a gap where no more models were in b2b or in engagement range. He then was like, „welp combat over and since I’m no longer in b2b or engagement combat ends and I get away.“ to which i corrected him that since he didn’t have any I5 it went to I4 next and even if he didn’t want to move his I4 for pile in, I had I4s close enough (within 3“) to get back in to b2b. He huffed and puffed and complained bc he was banking on using that casualty removal gambit to end combat and shoot me next turn and score the objective. It bit him in the rear 🤣

quartz spade
#

Yeah it’s funny when you remind people you pile in at each initiative step

warped arrow
#

My gaming group had one person try to argue that process. My group collectively went "nah fuck that". I don't think that person came back lol

teal basalt
#

It’s already been solved in the new ed thankfully, you have to pile in

#

Which is the solution they had before as well

rigid canyon
#

New Saturnine plasma has Barrage. I hate that.

#

Feels totally arbitrary. "We made a tough platform for this heavy weapon they can move and still shoot - oh also they can just shoot it out of LOS lol"

#

I was well interested in having 3 double plasma dudes in my backline but not if they're friggin artillery mopes.

crystal granite
#

"Tactical rapier dreadnought terminators"

indigo kiln
#

Don't quite follow you.

rigid canyon
#

I just don't get why they need to be able to shoot out of LOS. Feels like an unnecessary way just to push the models.

grave plume
near hull
indigo kiln
#

I think it's just meant to be a neat gimmick

grave plume
#

oh yeah i just glanced over that section

indigo kiln
#

This is pretty subjective but to ME that gun looks like it shoots a big weighty projectile. That's a Demoman main weapon slot.

grave plume
#

... hey wait a second

rigid canyon
# indigo kiln I think it's just meant to be a neat gimmick

Out of LOS shooting is pretty damn strong for a gimmick. Especially when it can be AP2 (or breaching).

I was just looking forward to using them but didn't want them to be too strong/unfun to play against. I did plan on taking all plasma cause I just love plasma cannons in my backline shooting over the heads of my despoilers.

grave plume
#

You can trade the plasma bombard with a twin heavy disintegrator if you prefer, while swap the disruption fist can become a second plasma bombard or twin heavy disintegrator.

then why are there six fists, if "swap the baseline plasma for a fist" isn't an option

rigid canyon
#

Got plasma HSS, Jetbikes, Deredeos, Contemptors, TSS. I'm just a plasma fanatic

indigo kiln
#

Idk just feels early to assume it's gonna be busted, PLENTY of hype new models come with kinda dinky rules.

rigid canyon
grave plume
#

6, but the "six fists" is per kit of 3

#

You get six of each weapon so you can dual wield the same guns on a kit of 3, except the fist that... just has another set you can't use

rigid canyon
quaint torrent
indigo kiln
rigid canyon
grave plume
#

I'm assuming choosing side is the reason
just odd to include double fist in the kit and not allow it, given the general GW trajectory

tribal jetty
grave plume
#

oh whoops i can read

#

well thats significantly more of a problem for their eventual standalone release

wraith pasture
#

I kinda wish the plasma bombard was a rapier option

#

It just seems like it makes total sense for an artillery piece to have a bombard

#

Or even just a plasma mortar

hidden flame
ruby vigil
winged vapor
flat grove
warped arrow
#

Yeah I picture it as they're lobbing indirect plasma behind enemy fortifications as they advance.

#

Walking artillery that also has the potential to crush someone with a fist. Indirect isn't for them to hide, its so their enemies can't.

teal basalt
warped arrow
#

Picture of Saturnine terminator unrelated

#

We also dont know the range. The plasma bombards might be 24 inches. Which isn't the longest range and would cement the idea of "firing at hidden troops while moving forward"

teal basalt
#

i hope its 72

#

if GW wanted saturnine to not stand still they'd have given them 7" move

flat grove
#

They can also teleport

#

How frequently and how far, who knows

tranquil epoch
#

Probably as a deep strike thing like other terminator teleportation

#

Means they can get some use out of their fists, I'd kit them out with dual guns if they were just footslogging

warped arrow
#

I want to rock those heavy disintegrators personally

tranquil epoch
#

Yeah they're pretty cool

fleet dew
#

I think they just deep strike. Come in, shoot, weather the retaliation, shoot again

acoustic gale
ruby vigil
#

The degradation of terrain rules over time is a real tragedy

I hope 3.0 gives us extensive terrain rules again. But I doubt it, and I doubt I'd like them if I did.
GW seems to love ghost-walking through walls, and I despise it

zealous wharf
#

The idea that a Marine in battle plate can simply run through a concrete wall if he chooses to is pretty thematic, honestly. It's just spoiled by the fact that doing so can't degrade the wall (due to static terrain models) and also ordinary humans can do the same.

ruby vigil
#

Have you seen 30k buildings? Ain't no way you're running through 6ft of solid plasteel lmao

Plus, it's less about thematics and more about gameplay. It means you can set up a unit behind a wall and it's completely, utterly, 100% unassailable until it chooses to walk forwards and charge whatever gets in range.
At least 40k gives you the ability to charge them, but in 30k you can't even charge someone who's behind a wall

zealous wharf
#

Oh, I agree the rules are rubbish. But in principle, I don't mind the idea of Marines smashing through ruined walls.

last bone
#

It's also probably a case of wanting to make saturnine different from just a regular plasma cannon

last bone
winged vapor
last bone
sudden walrus
turbid fiber
grave plume
#

from 1e to 2e

sudden walrus
turbid fiber
#

Ahh, gotcha

bright nova
#

Does Reaping blow count how bulky the unit is that is using the weapon? An example is the Saturnine units count as 4. So the new Praetor has to be fighting 5 units to actually use it?

timid cliff
#

*5 models and yes

#

So three terminators are enough to trigger it

bright nova
#

Sorry for the mistake but thank you for confirming.

#

Man that sucks for us Death Guard players.

timid cliff
#

Its basicly the old rampage rule

bright nova
#

Would my Sergeant in power armor have to be by himself to use it?

timid cliff
#

Not if the opposing unit is bigger then his

near hull
surreal hornet
#

stick him on his own and send him in, he costs more than a contemptor anyways

indigo kiln
#

Now there's an idea

bright nova
#

So my 20 man blob of Tacticals would need to take some casualties to use it.

surreal hornet
#

yes, probably

#

bad news for space wolves, and DG

untold palm
#

Nah totally brining him in a squad of six for deep strike fun. Turns one and two as alpha legion just became even more dangerous for opponents

surreal hornet
#

six what, saturnine? because thats like 800pts right there

untold palm
#

Yep

surreal hornet
#

we have reinvented the nullificator deathstar

#

only this time its for killing tactical marines

timid cliff
#

And veterans, they only got a 3+ armour

surreal hornet
#

oh yea

untold palm
#

Exodus, sabatuer, and now saturnine death ball. It's 1k points but the rest can just be tactical or lernean terminators.

surreal hornet
#

well, no one takes vets, but yes

#

and then you face someone with ws5 terminators and cry

dim pasture
untold palm
#

Was wound allocation changed? If so then I'll just take it all on the preator.

surreal hornet
#

the new one is just rage

surreal hornet
dim pasture
#

Which is better than current reaping blow

bright nova
untold palm
surreal hornet
dim pasture
#

"abusing" a statistically worse weapon than Chainswords is a interesting take

surreal hornet
#

reaping blow also just never works in challenges now

dim pasture
#

It rarely work in 2e as well. The rule sucked

surreal hornet
#

it was definetly situational

dim pasture
#

It was way too clunky for worse performance than CS. Stalkers were a better unit in flexibility and load out.

fleet dew
humble brook
bright nova
pale basalt
humble brook
humble brook
#

thats a quick summary lol

untold palm
#

Hey let them doom post. Macca need to confirm his bias somewhere. Not hating on him but man it would be much harder to just discount him if he had anything positive to say about GW or heresy 2.0.

sudden walrus
untold palm
sudden walrus
dull jewel
#

Ye

untold palm
#

Yeah. Has had nothing but doom and gloom to say about 3.0 I still listen to him occasionally because he does have good points. Don't think he's a grifter or anything, just wish he could at least admit GW did some good things with 2.0.

short tiger
#

he does have good points
Does he? It seems to be nothing but whinge whenever I've dipped a toe in

sudden walrus
#

I probably share a lot of opinions with him about 3e lol but saying nothing good about 2e is just crazy.
I still miss so much from 1e, but 2e is still healthier for the gamer

sudden walrus
dull jewel
#

I have enough salt in my life with #hh-general

zealous wharf
#

I'm amazed he managed to maintain that level of vitriol for the whole edition. Real dedication to hate.

sudden walrus
dark lion
#

Waded through the cesspit and the leaker guy is still MIA

sudden walrus
dark lion
#

I just want to see like the reference pages or the shooting rules or something😭

untold palm
#

He has some good points on balance issues, and correct criticism on GWs slow roll out of plastic infantry (even though that's because going into the edition they wanted to make vehicles more accessible for vetran players).

indigo kiln
#

He also hung out with Arch so

dull jewel
#

The leaked may very well just be dnjoying his mkii

#

He said he liked them

short tiger
dull jewel
#

Hobby maxxing instead if leaking

short tiger
#

Arch was a black mark on the hobby for too long

sudden walrus
#

I don't even remember what was wrong with a*ch, just that he had to change his name and that his accent makes watching him a chore

dull jewel
#

We speak not the name of the tarnished one

indigo kiln
#

Among other things

short tiger
sudden walrus
#

ahh ok, now I remember

indigo kiln
#

Just like the concentrated caricature of what people mean when they say "Warhammer fans" disparagingly

dull jewel
#

"I wonder what other videos this Guy makes"
"Oh, soft core anime porn reviews"

sudden walrus
dull jewel
#

Top ten [web nonsense terminology for soft core porn] of 2023

sudden walrus
dull jewel
#

Followed by a 20 minute rant on custodes or something

#

I didn't have a very glowing view if the Guy after seeing that per se

indigo kiln
#

So yeah idk how much weight Circle's actual analysis carries but I just don't have time for someone who sees someone like that and goes "oh we should do a podcast episode"

short tiger
#

Big "Internet Historian hanging out with JonTron" energy

sudden walrus
short tiger
#

I mean

#

One does nazi dogwhistles and plagiarises youtube videos

#

the other is JonTron

#

Neither are good things

sudden walrus
short tiger
#

It's out there if you want o google it

sudden walrus
#

yeah, gonna look into it, still thank you for bringing that to my attention.

short tiger
#

Anyway, back on topic

dim pasture
dull jewel
#

back on topic

#

doesn't the options on the saturnine praetor seem a bit anhemic?

#

compared with the tartaros or cata praetor, the dude has no options

sudden walrus
#

that is the new MO with GW though, no sprue options, no ingame options. So no surprise there

The other praetors came out when options were more coming to include, even out of the box.

#

but none of the options look particuliarly great. Especially the cost on that teleport upgrade

dull jewel
median hawk
#

MO with AoS/40k, not with SGS.

indigo kiln
#

May also be because as a new armor type that seems keyed to bespoke weapons, it's less easy to port other profiles over

dull jewel
#

isn't an appeal of heresy being a great kitbashing game?

wraith pasture
#

Tbh I'm kinda glad saturnine aren't stupidly broken

median hawk
#

Saturnine Praetor isn't really anything to go off of right now.

median hawk
#

MESBG seems to be the odd one out right now, as it's pretty much wrapped up with licensing restrictions.

wraith pasture
#

I'd really hate if this edition was the "you better play with the new stuff because everyone else is going to be"

#

I'm glad it's good but not so good you can't afford to not take saturnine

dull jewel
#

sats look decent-ish

indigo kiln
#

Yeah I saw some people worried they would render old Termies obsolete

dull jewel
#

I want to see what desintegrators do (since is what wilph's sats have modelled loldog )

zealous wharf
dull jewel
#

as is good and just

sudden walrus
indigo kiln
#

That doesn't seem like a "but" statement to me

wraith pasture
#

I think the plasma change could be a direct consequence of the uptick of disintegrators becoming it's own range of weapons that needed it's own niche in the space marine arsenal

dull jewel
#

but breaching 5+ with D1?

#

it's a bit harsh

wraith pasture
#

Depends on the price I guess

dull jewel
#

not like we were throwing plasma squads like maniacs into our lists

sudden walrus
dull jewel
#

desintegrators are not ap2?

#

damn

near hull
dull jewel
#

harsh

sudden walrus
short tiger
near hull
dull jewel
short tiger
#

Oh you could take a volkite charger sure

#

But that's under the same choice as regular termies

#

And in my mind fell under "Choice of combi weapon"

green torrent
dull jewel
#

you can't give you praetor a plasma gun, apparently

#

strange

short tiger
#

Nope, no plasma blaster on cata/tarta

#

Or heavy flamer, or autocannon

dull jewel
#

it's a bit weird isn't it?

short tiger
#

Which would be sick as hell to wade into melee with a heavy gun firing and a paragon blade in the other and

dull jewel
#

we all like our mellee beat sticks, but some more options never hurt anyone

#

plasma blaster in one hand, chain fist in another

fiery widget
#

I am still holding out that Plasma Guns are now FP2. Yes the blaster used to be defined by its shorter range and assault 2, but it's only available for things that aren't standard marines. I could see it just being a plasma gun with shorter range, maybe more strength.

dull jewel
#

seems pretty appropiate for DA and WE

sudden walrus
sudden walrus
indigo kiln
#

The logic is looking a little circular

languid badger
#

Plasma now looks like it's supposed to be the jack of all trades gun. Maybe okay at everything between light, over heavy infantry up to medium armour. Like a rifle version of the autocannon.
Meanwhile disintegrators are the anti marine infantry weapons

languid badger
indigo kiln
#

Makes sense to me, plasma tends to be presented as the next Tier over bolters

sudden walrus
zealous wharf
indigo kiln
#

Oh I meant like, in Warhammer in general.

#

Volkite is kinda nestled in between there

indigo kiln
green torrent
sudden walrus
sudden walrus
pale basalt
dull jewel
#

new video dropped

indigo kiln
dull jewel
#

why must the mods punish me specifically with 5 second slow mode?

indigo kiln
#

Post better

dull jewel
#

this is not a skill issue Genome

indigo kiln
#

And yet

bright cave
#

Who’s mechanid and why should I care?

indigo kiln
#

He seems pretty new on the scene

#

I liked his video editing in some of the earlier vids but I didn't get the impression he's bringing much expertise to the table

bright cave
#

For better or worse, not passing judgment on the outcome, but I agree that GW def wasn’t entirely honest or genuine with the changes they made to the system. Now will those changes pan out for the better? To be seen

sweet geyser
tired furnace
#

are people mad today too?

pale basalt
#

stay mad stay malding

green torrent
indigo kiln
#

This probably isn't the place for an explanation

random orbit
tepid crown
#

Last leaks were last week right?

humble brook
#

Did we see rules for scatter rolls/blast weapons?

near hull
flat grove
#

We have the Blast and Barrage special rules

humble brook
#

Ah ok

near hull
#

The main notable change for blasts is that you roll a single to-hit roll for the template, and only scatter if that fails. Also, multiple blasts are far quicker to work out

humble brook
#

Oh so if you hit you just get a direct hit essentially

near hull
#

Exactly

humble brook
#

Well that’s nice, much better. That’s one of the main reasons I didn’t take plasma cannons on HSS

#

It was ages to roll out all the scatters

near hull
#

With multiple blasts, the streamlining is that you roll a to-hit for each blast shot, and set aside all the hits. If you missed with any, scatter the blast template ONCE and all the misses hit that point

bright nova
#

Would I be safe to make destroyers with double alchem flamers for my Death Guard? Or should I wait? I hope they will stay in the new edition.

indigo kiln
#

I don't see why not

near hull
#

Worst case, you've destroyers with twin hand-flamers

#

No issue there

indigo kiln
#

Yeah

near hull
bright nova
#

I just wasn't sure would still be around

near hull
#

Alchem weapons might be still around, might not, but the flamer weapons you use to model them are going nowhere. It's just about making units that you think are cool

flat grove
near hull
#

Barrage is a whole other thing I left out

bright nova
near hull
#

Fair. You know your own stuff, but if you wanted to run fancy legion hand-flamers on a unit, no harm in running regular hand-flamers if the fancy ones are removed. Still fits well for DG either way

bright nova
#

It would? Awesome. I figured Bolt Pistols would fit better but that's awesome to know.

indigo kiln
#

Here's the thing. Even if alchem flamers get removed... You can still call 'em alchem flamers.

near hull
#

Legions were broad things. Destroyers specialise in killing things, hard. Rad grenades and missiles, anti-psychic flamers, etc. Chemical weapons fits DG, but even if they're not putting nasty stuff in the fuel, it's a radiation soaked unit drowning the enemy in fire. Destroyers are a very DG unit regardless of loadout

indigo kiln
#

I don't think anyone's gonna flip the table if you say your flamers use the same rules as normal but look different

#

Also that ^

bright nova
#

Thank you both. I'm more about the fluff then crunch and I want to make sure the army makes sense.

near hull
indigo kiln
#

100%

near hull
#

Not every DG flamer was alchem (I imagine that stuff was probably a supply nightmare). They were a legion of marines with the full arsenal, from duelling sabres to sniper rifles, so equip them however you want, or how you think is cool.

wraith pasture
#

I just want to know my liber rules at this point

#

"Have you fixed my army this edition?"

bright nova
near hull
idle falcon
#

According to Black Book 1: Betrayal,

"Bolter, melta and flamer were now the trinity of weapons around which their wargear was based, keeping supply needs to a minimum."

#

So DG definitely made heavy use of flamers

bright nova
bright nova
dark lion
#

Did we learn what the Overload rule does at some point? I looked through the leaks and found nothing

stoic orbit
#

We have the blurb in the original weapons article, but nothing more

#

It's missing from the leaked keywirds

near hull
#

It hits the user with X hits on a 1, but not the full wording

dark lion
#

I love special rules that I know will be used by multiple armies that aren't in the core rulebook

languid badger
bright nova
humble brook
near hull
humble brook
#

I mean there have been loads of rules so easy to confuse stuff. I could also be wrong it’s not a definitive definition and it’s free text from warcom so who knows haha.

indigo kiln
bright nova
simple mantle
#

What is important to know: are wounds allocated by overload keeping their AP or not (like HH2.0)?

winged vapor
#

I hope not

#

That mostly screws over non marine factions.

onyx condor
vital field
ruby vigil
sudden walrus
zealous wharf
#

I could have sworn I saw actual rules text for Overload (X) posted somewhere, but I guess I imagined it.

sudden walrus
#

it seemingly isnt even in the core rulebook, as I didnt find it in any of the leaks

zealous wharf
#

Yeah, they're doing the same daft split of half the rules being in the Core, and the other half being scattered around the Libers.

fleet dew
#

These books are done at the same time and still the didn't show up in the main rulebook. Preposterous

crude flare
#

Same as Brutal in 2nd

ruby vigil
#

And I just know Overload is gonna be one of those rules where I think "that has to be a core special rule" and spend 5 minutes flipping through the core rulebook before giving up and grabbing the liber

weak stirrup
ruby vigil
#

They should just print all the core special rules in the libers as well
No splitting them out
It's silly, annoying, and wastes gametime

zealous wharf
ruby vigil
weak stirrup
#

Cause they are Weapons Traits and not "universal" per say. A model can't have the Overload trait attach to it.

zealous wharf
#

A model also can't have Template or Pistol but they're in the USR section of the Core

fleet dew
weak stirrup
#

But we are still missing some rules, like the Assault trait for weapon. It's said that it's needed to make a volley fire during the charge phase, but what I want to know is if it needed if we want to shoot and charge.
In 2nd Ed it was written in the shooting section.

#

As Bolter lost the Rapid Fire, and it seems it's gone for good, and as the Heavy rule doesn't state that you can't charge, I am quite worried...

zealous wharf
#

We're missing the whole section on who is allowed to charge and what else they can do on their turn, yeah.

ruby vigil
fleet dew
#

Yes

ruby vigil
#

I think the distinction is special rules do things

Traits don't do anything directly, but other rules use traits

weak stirrup
#

Ah you pre shot my answer ahah

zealous wharf
#

I think it's not great form that some things can be both, like there's a Melta trait and a Melta (X) special rule.

#

But that was an issue last edition as well

ruby vigil
#

It seems every weapon category is now a trait too

#

Which I assume is mostly to save arguing with Salamanders players what is and isn't a plasma weapon

(Nothing against Sallies, but that's where it came up to me)

fleet dew
#

Anyone has the link from the latest Leaks for me, please?

green torrent
#

i think this is it?

fleet dew
full tapir
#

remember you can just add /zip the the end of the URL to download the whole album

bright cave
#

But also any info dropped today about the dreadnought stats or weapons? I didn’t see anything in the two articles but thought I may have missed something

flat grove
weak stirrup
full tapir
#

Worked just now, both on my phone and desktop, so try again!

bright cave
surreal hornet
#

same as with the terminators

simple mantle
#

And what about a leak of the weapon charts? 😁

near hull
#

To give them credit, I was impressed that they posted pretty much the full datasheets for the termies and praetor. Beats small edited snippets
More of that, please

acoustic gale
inner dragon
#

We've already seen 'how to model these' sections in the snippets, so I would doubt this meme

dense chasm
#

It’s also a new kit with limited options… not like other kits you can use other weapons etc
We know the dread has new weapons coming in the future as well so there will be more options in time
And as you say they’ve already said you can use this squad to model this unit

teal basalt
median hawk
#

Nothing does.

ruby vigil
#

I think we've seen enough proof that GW is being more lax with 30k than 40k.
But stricter than they have been, at least for new units.

It seems future units added in supplements are going to be "official kitbashes" of their various weapon/upgrade kits

Existing units are likely to keep their existing options.

dense chasm
ruby vigil
#

Also worth noting that the Saturnine stuff isn't "no model no rules" like 40k is.

The Saturnine are allowed to double up on weapons, but the kit only includes one of each for each Terminator.
Same as the Dread - you can take double guns but only get one of each in the kit

dense chasm
#

Yeah it’s also a new kit with limited options… it’s not gonna have a lot in general loldog

ruby vigil
#

I think it is valid to point out though that these kits have fewer options than previous things did, certainly for the Saturnine.
Other Terminators had a whole schmorgesboard of options right from the get-go, more than 40k Terminators ever had.

The Saturnine Dread at least has a similar amount of options as a Leviathan always had. But Leviathans have always been on the low end for 30k optionality

dense chasm
#

I can’t see these guys having stuff like autocannons or flamers etc just the way they want the armour to work with the ball joints etc
So it’s weapons that doesn’t use conventional ammunition
We’ve got disintegrators and plasma
I also hope the dread doesn’t get a CC choice, keep it ranged so it’s good at that but vulnerable to a pissed off leviathan

wraith pasture
zealous wharf
full tapir
#

Thats just a problem with these bespoke wargear models

#

Any power weapon or whatever he could take would be worse anyway

#

But would of course have been nice with more, didnt even get a flamer option

sudden walrus
#

Problem is more the very ecclectic choice you got. Two medium ranged weapons that can easily kill the termis, plus a fist with a great short ranged weapon for the squad, and a character with a good melee weapon but barely anything worthwile in range for his squad.

feels like the og landraider, were they can do nothing really well.

zealous wharf
#

Yeah, exactly. He could have had the option of a particle shredder, which we know is a Saturnine weapon, but he can't take one because it's not in the box.

There's still plenty of flexibility in the system and loads of units will still have their full variety of options, I don't think there's any need for doomposting about it. But it's also fine to acknowledge that when new kits are released, they're going to be far more limited in options and mostly restricted to what's in the box.

short tiger
#

Or rather, the unit was designed to be represented in a specific way

#

NMNR isn't hard line black and white, otherwise we'd have separate kits for tank commanders vs regular russes/dorns in 40k

humble brook
#

What is happening?

dense chasm
#

Worries your weapon options will be limited to whatever you can build in the box

fleet dew
#

It is a week since the last leak, innit? GW really got him

humble brook
#

Ok so just on some normal anxiety since we have no new update

dense chasm
#

Pretty much

full tapir
#

Gotta keep the doom spiral going

humble brook
#

lol fair enough

full tapir
#

Theres going to be some stuff still, like i bet that unit made from the rapier crew dont get options because the crew don't, but that they exist and say to use a model that doesnt really exist is a good sign anyway

winged vapor
#

The game will be here eventually.
Then we will see all of it.

#

Some content creators probably already have the books

#

I need to see the libers.
I want to have something to complain about.
What's warhammer without complaining?

green torrent
#

i mean they could always just release "saturnine assault squad" or upgrade pack with a pdf rules lately

#

lets be real here is they had an option to take idk, twin saturnine claws, yet those wouldnt be in the box, we would be malding about "why give thing in the book but not give thing in the sprue"

indigo kiln
#

Yeah that's the tradeoff

#

I definitely get the annoyance but I also remember building my T'au army and hearing everyone say "The best loadout for Crisis Battlesuits is maximum Cyclic Ion Blasters. You can get one of them in an HQ unit's kit and nowhere else."

#

So it's a balance

full tapir
#

And now theyre gone, i think

indigo kiln
#

I'm gonna be real I would have loved if we had the 10e crisis rules when I was building those guys. I'd actually be able to make a decision.

solemn oak
#

Did the page for weapon types leak? Like what they mean

fleet dew
zealous wharf
#

Weapon traits don't do anything on their own, they're just there for special rules to reference so you know exactly which weapons it applies to

tepid crown
#

The number of leaks this week is insufficient

teal basalt
#

Not much left to leak

sudden walrus
#

they could leak cool artwork...

slim fractal
#

-# Like Seperoth ||Sephiroth loldog ||

winged vapor
#

We still don't have unit subtype rules.
A lot of the vehicle rules.
Cover rules.

teal basalt
#

They might have been got

winged vapor
#

I don't think we got these at all.

dark lion
tepid crown
#

Wen liber

pale basalt
#

i have hard people have had great results by breaking into cars in the area around warhammer world

stoic orbit
simple mantle
#

Seriously, do you honestly buy into these leak stories? To me the whole thing feels staged. GW ran into trouble before and surely learned from it. Think about the odd timing: barely a day separates the launch of “The Horus Hearsay” website and the photo of the boxed sets that popped up online. Then you have leaks dribbling out, each one careful to dodge the book’s most wanted sections. The information is being rationed straight from the source; it is a tightly managed PR move.
The real leaks will drop once the new HH edition goes up for pre-order on their website. By then, artists, influencers and distributors will already have the products at home, ready to reveal every bit that has stayed hidden so far. Until that day, the only leaks we get are the ones GW is willing to let slip.

stoic orbit
#

Dumping large swathes of information without any fanfare is not good for hype long term, not to mention all the information control issues faced because of it.

simple mantle
stoic orbit
#

GW clearly still has growing pains with their information security, doesn't help that production is now occurring in a country where there is somewhat widespread knowledge of your products.

Things need to be produced months in advance at the very least. When the production is happening in china then leaks aren't as much an issue because there isn't really anyone who has motivation to leak, or to buy sketchy FB marketplace listings. When it's in the UK it's another can of worms.

near hull
indigo kiln
#

Which the leaks devalue

stoic orbit
#

Remember how much anticipation there was for the weapons article? And then how no one really cared about the list building once it was leaked?

indigo kiln
#

Also there have been people saying tinfoil shit like this since the very first leak photos and their arguments never stand up except for the people who are just invested in believing them

#

We've heard all this before and it wasn't convincing the first dozen times

wraith pasture
#

Even if all the leaks were staged what value would gw gain from leaking pretty much the entire contents of their new rulebook a month or two before release

Or leaking their big product reveal for their big tournament event over a week or two before the event derailing the whole thing.

Or launching a whole advertising campaign build up just to derail all of that and scuttle all the money and plans they had for it.

What value does any of that bring other than making GW look like utter fools to their investors

#

It doesn't build up hype nearly as well. Essentially blows GWs load without them even being in the room months before it should've been and now they've gotta reveal even more just to try and have some sort of content to keep fans engaged until release

simple mantle
wraith pasture
#

So unless gw starts dipping into the libers for content they're gonna be running out of hype material pretty much now

silent yoke
simple mantle
#

A conspiracy, man, please, choose carefuly your words 🙂

near hull
#

The army building rules leaking the day before the long-awaited army building article, is not "good strategy"

silent yoke
#

GW isnt some sneaky company that will seed doubt with ex employees, existing employees, and their friends. its just a place that people work, spend time doing things, and people latch on to them being this evil super power.

silent yoke
wraith pasture
#

Making your company look like absolute fools and destroying your credibility to run a decent marketing campaign without getting upstaged and completely toppled by some guy and his potato camera doesn't seem like grand strategy to me

simple mantle
#

Weapon charts, legion abilities and charts would be "real" leaks. This is what I say.

silent yoke
wraith pasture
#

Customers love leaks but investors and stock holders etc want to see their money actually paying for things that will generate them more money. I.e. viral add campaigns not getting scuttled by some German man with a phone or some guy stealing a box in florida or what ever

simple mantle
silent yoke
#

most leaks source from the people that do translations as they are contracted out to independent companies that are not as strict in keeping the lid on things

wraith pasture
#

There have been more than a few occasions where leaks have originated from Germany due to some guy taking snaps of product that entered into the warehouse or local stores prior to it's actual reveal date

silent yoke
#

Indeed

simple mantle
silent yoke
#

It is not "accepted". Its incredibly difficult to prevent.

wraith pasture
#

In this modern era of clout farming everyone wants to be first

#

You break the news and suddenly you're the centre of attention for an entire community

silent yoke
#

On preorder day reviews go out so its not even a leak at that point.

wraith pasture
#

Look a the guy who leaked the rulebook. Pretty much the whole community was waiting for him to get done with work to leak more

simple mantle
indigo kiln
#

Look, SecretFire, like I said, if any of us were gonna buy this we would have already. Maybe you're right and that makes us dummies but continuing to try and convince us is only going to cause mutual annoyance.

silent yoke
simple mantle
silent yoke
#

I dont know what youre saying sorry for. i'm not denying that it does happen, im denying the idea that GW is okay with it or intentionally do these things.

simple mantle
#

I really appreciate everyone’s perspective, but I think it may be best to pause the discussion here. I probably shouldn’t have shared my initial comment, and it feels like we’re no longer moving forward. Let’s let it rest for now. Thanks for understanding.

rigid canyon
#

Wonder why Plasma seems to be moving to breaching 5+.

Are they trying to reduce the access of AP2 in the game or just trying to push people to buy disintegrators?

#

Really odd choice since plasma felt very balanced last edition.

stoic orbit
#

Yeah plasma changes feel a little confusing so far, maybe the gun will still have a breaching 4+ option idk

fleet dew
rigid canyon
#

Well that's still incentive to buy the new box isn't it? But yeah I'm not exactly sold on that being the reason.

winged vapor
zealous wharf
#

From what we know at the moment, it looks like disintegrators are very dangerous for the user, even up to and including the Saturnine stuff. So weirdly plasma is now the 'safer' choice for people who don't want to gamble with their lives.

warped arrow
#

I also think the breaching 5+ or 6+ might be to balance out some other aspects. I'm willing to bet plasma guns will be 2 shots at 24" all the time like bolters. Nerfing breaching a bit might be the comprise to pumping out more shots on average all the time.

fleet dew
fleet dew
green torrent
zealous wharf
#

Oh, I didn't realise anyone actually used charnabal sabres. But yeah, that seems like an apt comparison.

green torrent
tired furnace
tired furnace
hidden flame
weak stirrup
#

What portion of the community watches the leaks anyway ?

tired furnace
#

ah yes the whole leak department

#

you need like 3 people at the company to know

hidden flame
tired furnace
#

ceo, head of marketing, some intern

#

thats all you need for a campaign like this

hidden flame
tired furnace
weak stirrup
# hidden flame the very invested part

Yeah so is it really an issue to have leaks ? They (us) are so invested they gonna buy anyway 😂 and for the vast majority they just learn the news from GW or their LGS.

hidden flame
#

And there's another major reason that leaks wouldn't be coordinated: shareholders. If a leak gets out that's misjudged or so bad that it affects the sales of an item, then shareholders can sue the company if they find out the company itself is leaking their own product.

tired furnace
#

leaks drip feed exactly whats coming the next few days

#

if i had that book in hand its entirety would already be in everyones hands

#

youre the one right now grasping to reasons why these leaks cannot possibly be voluntary

hidden flame
weak stirrup
tired furnace
hidden flame
tired furnace
#

what is so implausible about that

hidden flame
#

Didn't even take decent pics of the product. Some madlad bought one of them and cracked it open to take pics of the book

tired furnace
#

did anyone get arrested

hidden flame
#

If they did, it wasn't newsworthy

tired furnace
hidden flame
#

gestures to the rest of the world considering what else is going on

#

Does Target publically post whenever a bike is stolen out of their store and someone is arrested? Heck no.

#

I watched a guy steal three bikes, one after the other. It wasn't until the 4th attempt that he was arrested.

tired furnace
#

yeah ok, gw probably leaked a lot of the shit we've seen

hidden flame
#

If you didn't work for the company, you'd have no idea it happened.

#

But hey, just like flat earthers, you're welcome to believe what you want. If it comes to light that GW legitimately leaks stuff purposefully, I guess I'll look the fool.

I'm very confident I will not look the fool.

tired furnace
#

just keep coping

hidden flame
tired furnace
#

cope

hidden flame
charred grove
#

Children, Behave

dense chasm
#

Yesterday it was plasma nerf… now it’s arguing over a leak issue
Ahh never a dull day loldog

hidden flame
#

I feel real dumb being baited into such an idiotic argument, but here we are.

zealous wharf
#

I do think it's weird that the leaks we get are so consistently incomplete and universally photographed with potatoes. That's not to suggest some grand conspiracy, I just wish that maybe once some unreleased material could end up in the hands of someone with a more systematic mind and a handle on the basic use of a scanner.

weak stirrup
#

For is defense, the books are not really scanner friendly except if you don't mind bending the pages a lot

hidden flame
#

Everyone in the modern world has a freakin twentythousand megagigapixel camera on the phone in their pocket. It's so reliable that banks accept checks photographed through their apps.

dense chasm
tired furnace
#

this is what the content of my book looks like from across the room

#

further away

green torrent
#

idk how we suddenly forgot that they actually had to push the dropsite preview forward in time because the box leaked

tired furnace
green torrent
#

I mean that happened. Tyranid codex for 9th edition was leaked like a month (maybe month and a half) before its actual release, which led to people just not ordering the book

#

I would know, im that people

tired furnace
#

cool

#

thats not what happened with HH

fleet dew
#

Just look on how many people in here or on B&C are whining the whole time how bad the rules are and that they won't buy it. Those are lost customers to gw because of the leak. Or not, who knows how serious those comments are. Some of them cry about everything for years now without really stepping away from the game annoyingly enough😏

tired furnace
#

if they pirate it they will have some kind of rationalization for it

#

if they buy theyll say nobody plays 2.0 so they are forced to play 3.0

fleet dew
#

Hehe yeah that sounds like them

zealous wharf
#

Complaining about GW is a whole hobby in itself

weak stirrup
#

And I thought my friend and I complained about GW because we are french, but I am glad to note this is international 😂

stoic orbit
#

don't sniff hobby glue kids, it'll get you believing all sorts of crazy things

wraith pasture
#

Oh nvm it's from the current liber isn't it

#

I was confused for a moment about why scout armour would be in the main rulebook

random orbit
#

GW WHERE IS MY DEREDEO PAVISE ???

grave plume
#

sitting in a bin

last bone
timid cliff
last bone
#

Or sabers

timid cliff
#

Scorpius in the back, predators in the front. Our own little fortress

surreal hornet
#

HSS could fit though, 5++ lascannons

pale basalt
hot tundra
#

Clearly you should put a bunch of tarantulas next to it

pale basalt
#

and solar aux can just ally it in now even easier

full tapir
#

Going to ally 10 moritats that get BS6 with the prime bonus, easy game

zealous wharf
crystal granite
short tiger
#

Rapiers seems like the sensible choice

#

Sit quad mortars next to this and just shell stuff

dark lion
#

RIP the leaker. Tragic that James Workshop found him and had him crucified outside Warhammer world😔

full tapir
#

Its true, he's chained to the front of the Ultramarines rhino as an example to everyone

last bone
daring yacht
#

He gave the book to a friend

#

Posted about it yesterday

fleet dew
#

And the friends name was Bonebreaker Bobby

last bone
wraith pasture
#

I mean what else is there to leak

#

Most of what people want is not even in those books now