#Traitor UM Brethren of Iron

89 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

cobalt bough
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---HQ---

Praetor - Warlord: Prides Dark Power
-Volkkte Charger
-Warhawk Jump Pack
-Master Crafted Thunder Hammer

Praevian
-Legatine Axe
--6x Vorax
---2x Irad Cleansers

Forge Lord
-Cortex Controller
-Legatine Axe

---ELITES---
2x Tech marines
-2x Cortex Controllers

3x Thallax
-meltabombs
-Phased Plasma Fusil
-2x Chain Bayonets

3x Thallax
-meltabombs
-Phased Plasma Fusil
-2x Chain Bayonets

3x Thallax
-meltabombs
-Phased Plasma Fusil
-2x Chain Bayonets

---TROOPS---
Assault Squad
-Sergeant
--Artificer Armor
--Power Fist
-9x Legionaries
--2x Power Axe

Assault Squad
-Sergeant
--Artificer Armor
--Power Fist
-9x Legionaries
--2x Power Axe

5x Castellax
-5x Darkfire Cannon

Tactical Squad
-Sergeant
--Artificer Armor
--Power Fist
-9x Legionaries
--9x Chain Bayonets
--Vexilla
--Vox-Caster
-Rhino Transport

Tactical Squad
-Sergeant
--Artificer Armor
--Power Fist
-9x Legionaries
--9x Chain Bayonets
--Vexilla
--Vox-Caster
-Rhino Transport

---HEAVY SUPPORT---
Thanatar Calix

Hello all, been a minute since i posted a list yet here I am once again.
I've been wanting to find a build that makes my traitor UM feel a bit different from my loyalist UM and with the new mechanicum releases I've decided to give brethren of iron a try, any input on the list as it is? One thing I'm debating on is whether I should make the vorax or the castellax my praevian's "retinue" since only one or the other will get access to the UM legions astartes rules and both would like to have it.

I'll mention, this isn't meant to be a particularly great list, more of a thematic one and an attempt to "power down" my listbuilding since I'm usually the one in my local making the strongest lists.

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<@&877303538051600415>

bitter smelt
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Any reason you want to go for brethren of iron instead of taking a mech allied detachment?

cobalt bough
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Thematic reasons, mostly

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That and I enjoy giving the less popular RoWs some love

meager hinge
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Bots will quite enjoy the Strength of Wisdom bonus too

cobalt bough
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Yeah I feel like both Castellax and vorax would like it I just don't know which i want to have it more

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Vorax might be slinging enough shells to not really need it anyways but that many bs5 lightning gun and rotor cannons is just funny

meager hinge
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Ah wait, isn't it only the ones that are selected as part of the praevian choice that get the LA rule

cobalt bough
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Yeah, so it's either the vorax or the castellax that will get it since both can be taken without the praevian in BoI anyways

meager hinge
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Yeah but I think you don't get it on the bots unless you specifically take them with the Praevian's special rule

shrewd tundra
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Correct. It’s only the one maniple that’s taken as part of a Praevian’s Force Org Slot that gains the LA(X) special rule (unless playing with PanO rules)

cobalt bough
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Yeah, Im just saying I can swap around which of the units is his "retinue" if the castellax would be better off with the ultramarines rule

shrewd tundra
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Honestly, the Castellax tend to be the better shooting unit overall

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Especially with 5x darkfire cannons.

cobalt bough
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Yeah I feel like that's gonna be the case

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(I really hate that I can't give my praevian the fast subtype so he can bum around with the vorax without making them lose its benefits)

shrewd tundra
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Sadly they’ll never get to use the UM legion reaction, but that’s fine. But Vorax with the UM trait aren’t bad, since they could be used to set up another unit for shooting

cobalt bough
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That's the role I'm hoping the thallax will excel at, jump pack lightning guns being able to MSM around the board setting up hit buffs

shrewd tundra
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Also, with respect to the list “not being great”. It honestly looks pretty good to me. Plenty of scoring between your troops and Thallax, plentiful anti-tank and anti-infantry, all while bringing big stompy robots

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I’m assuming that the Praetor goes with an Assault Squad, the Praevian sticks with a unit of automata, and the Forge Lord hangs out with the other blob of automata or the Thanatar?

cobalt bough
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Yeah, praevian was gonna hang with either the vorax or a unit of marines and the forge lord was gonna chill with the castellax

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Hopefully to make use of that battle smith 2+

shrewd tundra
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It’ll help, if nothing else. Sucks we can’t let automata react, but Mech has to keep some advantages over the Legions 😅

jagged finch
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well this is exceptionally convenient, I was just looking for a Brethren of Iron list as an example for mine and what do you know, its the most recent post

cobalt bough
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I aim to please

jagged finch
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btw, where are you getting thallax from?

cobalt bough
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I did make some tweaks to this list to make room for siege wreckers on the castellax in case I wanted to get them into krumpin range but we'll see which I want to go with

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You mean physically or list wise?

jagged finch
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I'm looking at my liber and unless I can't read, which is very likely, I don't see a mention of them on the RoW or Praevian page

cobalt bough
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Forge lord let's you take up to 3 squads as elites

jagged finch
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ah, so I can read

cobalt bough
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Also gives them the LA(x) rule

jagged finch
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good to know

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now i want to know why you have 4 units with cortex controllers for only a single unit of automata

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wait

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2

cobalt bough
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The automata restriction is a model by model one, not a unit by unit one

jagged finch
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I'm glad you said that

cobalt bough
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Since I've got 6 vorax, 5 castellax, and a thanatar I need 4 units with controllers

jagged finch
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I completely misunderstood

cobalt bough
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Yeah it threw me off when I was first building the list too

jagged finch
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might I suggest augury scanners for you two techmarines?

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they're only 5 points a piece and will help with infiltrating enemy units from tying up your automata in combat

cobalt bough
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I've debated on it, my local just doesn't run enough deep strikers to make the reaction worth it and on tacs the night fighting bit is worthless

jagged finch
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makes sense

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my first game ever had an important unit get deep striked and slaughtered before they could do anything worth their points

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so I'm a bit cagey now

cobalt bough
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And the thallax have djinn sight which is just augury scanners with +6" range against infiltrators

jagged finch
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even better

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I don't plan on taking thallax for my BoI list, so Augury Scanners are a bit more useful to me

cobalt bough
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I'm actually also debating on splitting the vorax into 2x3 instead of 1x6 if they aren't the companion unit

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That allows a bit more flexibility in targeting

shrewd tundra
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I would, personally. It’ll eat your FA slots, but that’s fine since you’re not using them anyway. The Castellax will get more benefit from the LA(UM) trait, and you’ve got enough cortex controllers to keep your bots in line regardless of where they are on the board

cobalt bough
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While I'm a sucker for big bricks of models, MSU really is nice for on board flexibility

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Which is kinda UMs whole thing I guess

shrewd tundra
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I too, love big bricks. But presenting more targets both gives you more flexibility and more capability to withstand shooting—since your opponent needs to chew through both units

cobalt bough
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For anyone interested, here's the updated version of the list

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---HQ---
Praetor - Warlord: Prides Dark Power
-Warhawk Jump Pack
-Master Crafted Thunder Hammer

Praevian
-Legatine Axe
--Castellax Maniple
---5x Castellax
----5x Darkfire Cannon
----5x Siege Wreckers
----5x Searchlights

Forge Lord
-Cortex Controller
-Legatine Axe

---ELITES---
2x Tech marines
-2x Cortex Controllers

3x Thallax
-meltabombs
-Phased Plasma Fusil

3x Thallax
-meltabombs
-Phased Plasma Fusil

3x Thallax
-meltabombs
-Phased Plasma Fusil

---TROOPS---
Assault Squad
-Sergeant
--Artificer Armor
--Power Fist
-9x Legionaries
--2x Power Axe

Assault Squad
-Sergeant
--Artificer Armor
--Power Fist
-9x Legionaries
--2x Power Axe

Tactical Squad
-Sergeant
--Chain Bayonet
-9x Legionaries
--9x Chain Bayonets
--Vexilla
-Rhino Transport

Tactical Squad
-Sergeant
--Chain Bayonet
-9x Legionaries
--9x Chain Bayonets
--Vexilla
-Rhino Transport

---FASY ATTACK---
Vorax Maniple
-3x Vorax
--Irad Cleanser

Vorax Maniple
-3x Vorax
--Irad Cleanser

---HEAVY SUPPORT---
Thanatar Calix

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Main changes:
Tac marines lost most upgrades
Vorax and castellax swapped as retinue
Vorax split into 2x3
Castellax given siege wreckers

shrewd tundra
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Lean and mean, I like it. You could downgrade to normal bayonets on the Tacs to give the sgts AA, but honestly I’m not too sure if that’s required

jagged finch
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btw, how many points is this?

cobalt bough
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3k on the nose

magic siren
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As others have said the list would likely function better as a mechanicum allied detachment, but I don't think it's a bad list and rule of cool/theme should always win out. I think my only suggestion beyond the advice of the others is to maybe consider merging two of the thallax squads into a 6 man, I've found they melt incredibly quickly in 3's as that 4+ save tends to counteract the T5

cobalt bough
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wish my praevian could take a jump pack so he could hang with them

jagged finch
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another thing

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You really shouldn't need a Praetor or Delegatus to take this RoW

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I feel that way about several other RoW, but this on in particular seems a bit silly.

shrewd tundra
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I can see the point there, but having the MotL tax keeps all RoW consistent

shrewd tundra
jagged finch
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I think they should have just made it so each RoW require a specific consul

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like Recon company would require a vigilator

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although this probably isn't the place to discuss this

shrewd tundra
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Probably not 😅

jagged finch
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@cobalt bough do you mind if I post my list here? I just made one I'm happy with and want to discuss and compare it to yours. If you aren't comfortable with that, I can either DM you the list or make a new list in this channel. Let me konw

cobalt bough
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Go for it

jagged finch
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3k Points of Loyalist Ultramarines
Brethren of Iron RoW

Cataphractii Forge Lord w/ Cortex Controller, Cyber Familiar, & Legatine Axe
Praetor w/ Bolt Pistol, Master Crafted Thunder Hammer, & Warhawk Jump Pack (Warlod w/ The Burden of Kings)

Techmarine Covenant
-2x Techmarines w/ Bolters, Augury Scanners, & Cortex Controllers

15-man Assault Squad w/ 1x Power Sword, 2x Power Axes & Power Fist on Sergeant
15-man Assault Squad
3-automata Castellax Battle Automata Maniple w/ Mauler Bolt Cannons & Searchlights
3-automata Castellax Battle Automata Maniple w/ Mauler Bolt Cannons & Searchlights
3-automata Castellax Battle Automata Maniple w/ Darkfire Cannons & Searchlights
3-automata Castellax Battle Automata Maniple w/ Multi Meltas & Searchlights

2-tank Predator Squadron w/ Executioner Plasma Destoryer Turrets, Lascannon Sponsons, & Dozer Blades
2-tank Predator Squadron w/ Executioner Plasma Destoryer Turrets, Lascannon Sponsons, & Dozer Blades
Sicaran Omega Squadron w/ Lascannon Sponsons

Comes out to 2982pts, so I have some room to finagle.
I went with a lot of plasma becasuse its a partial Mechanicum Force so they'd have access to TechMarines and Tech Priests to maintain them

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I might drop the Legatine Axe on the Forge Lord for the ability to give the 2 Techmarines Plasma Guns instead of Bolters, alternatively I could just keep it as is and give him a Thunder Hammer instead

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@cobalt bough what do you think?

cobalt bough
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Currently you need another cortex controller, you've got 12 automata but only 3 CCs

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Personally I don't see a point in taking castellax with just a base load out, you could pretty easily just drop 3 of the naked ones to get another set of MMs or DFCs

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I do like the flavor of going plasma heavy thanks to the higher number of tech marines present

jagged finch
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sorry I got really busy with work all of a sudden

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Here's a slightly revised list

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3k Points of Loyalist Ultramarines
Brethren of Iron RoW

Cataphractii Forge Lord w/ Cortex Controller, Cyber Familiar, & Legatine Axe
Praetor w/ Bolt Pistol, Thunder Hammer, & Warhawk Jump Pack (Warlod w/ The Burden of Kings)

Techmarine Covenant
-3x Techmarines w/ Augury Scanners & Cortex Controllers

15-man Assault Squad w/ 1x Power Sword, 2x Power Axes & Sergeant w/ Power Fist
10-man Assault Squad
3-automata Castellax Battle Automata Maniple w/ Mauler Bolt Cannons & Searchlights
3-automata Castellax Battle Automata Maniple w/ Mauler Bolt Cannons & Searchlights
3-automata Castellax Battle Automata Maniple w/ Darkfire Cannons & Searchlights
3-automata Castellax Battle Automata Maniple w/ Multi Meltas & Searchlights

2-tank Predator Squadron w/ Executioner Plasma Destoryer Turrets, Lascannon Sponsons, & Dozer Blades
2-tank Predator Squadron w/ Executioner Plasma Destoryer Turrets, Lascannon Sponsons, & Dozer Blades
Sicaran Omega Squadron w/ Lascannon Sponsons

Changes
Dropped Master Crafted on the Thunder Hammer for Praetor
Added 1x Techmarine w/ identical loadout to other 2x Techmarines
Dropped Assault Squad from 15-man to 10-man stock unit

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About your 2nd point, I try to include Mauler Bolt Cannon Castellax because fluff-wise, that's the most common configuration the Mechanicum fielded. I really try and keep my army fluffy even when I would be flat out better to take a different loadout on a unit. Unless of course that less common loadout is the point of the list.

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Do you think I should drop the Lascannon Sponsons on the Omega for Master Crafted on the Thunder Hammer?