#Unlock larger delays earlier

38 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

unique karma
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It is just needless tedium to force the player to use the one bit delay line for so long.

It'd be fine to unlock it along with the 8bit memory, since at that point the player has proven that they can upscale any bit component themselves.

wild vector
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The 8bit delay line is supposed to not be available for the level "Little Box"

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For which levels would you want the 8bit delay line?

trim field
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why not?

gloomy storm
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i mean, i don't think that delay line is that much different in size compared to register?

wild vector
# trim field why not?

Since in that level, space is supposed to be a challenge and the optimal solution would be a lot simpler without the 8bit DL

trim field
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i see but i don't understand why thats a problem? there would be a new best solution, but why is that a bad thing?

wild vector
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To the point of space no longer being a challenge for that solution

trim field
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ok, i think i got your point..
i would argue that the space limitation is mainly for "non highscore hunters" who are using normal registers. the fact that it's ALSO a challenge for the optimal solution is a side effect which would be lost by adding the 8-bit delay line.

So what about just disable it in the little box level and allow it in every other level?

wild vector
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For which levels would it actually be useful excluding little box?

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IMO, if you are optimizing, having DL8 is not that much of an advantage since you are probably placing a lot of stuff anyway

gloomy storm
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counter, wide instructions, stack

wild vector
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While normally completing them or while optimizing?

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I would expect that for normal completion, a register is always the better choice anyway

unique karma
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i can agree with little box. i'm not 100 % sure about it, but that is indeed a fair point.

mossy heart
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I do think it would be nice to have access to the 8 bit delay line after little box

trim field
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ok now i'm irritated... ofc the only real impact is has is in the little box level - otherwise its obviously to reduce visual clutter (since all the levels are beatable without it in the first place), which is a nice addition, don't you think?

wild vector
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So it's a very small QOL feature, ok

trim field
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exactly

gloomy storm
# wild vector While normally completing them or while optimizing?

in counter, if you are using a register, you have to connect both of its inputs to ON - in which case delay line is 100% better. in other cases, you don't need single bit optimisations, unless you are trying to overoptimise the stack

Quality Of Life improvements are a very important, 'cos without QOL ppl can drop the game for being "too annoying to play"

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also, if other memory component levels will ever be added, keeping that "no 8bit delay line" just because of a small challenge in the beginning would be very annoying

unique karma
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having had a quick moment to think, i wonder, would it really be a bad thing to have in little box? the register does add some QoL features compared to the delay that would be a challenge to add in manually

wild vector
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I assume you don't have that one

unique karma
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i didn't go back to the level

gloomy storm
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the most optimal solution is 2 delay lower than the simple optimal solution (148/8 vs 148/10)

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it was a happy accident that it was possible

jaunty carbon
gloomy storm
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yes

jaunty carbon
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but how is it possible? I have 4 delay for A1 and B0 and 2 delay for A0 and B1. Loading for A1 and B0 depends on Loading A0.

wild vector
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Well, that is the trick for which you need to open up the registers

gloomy storm
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tldr ||the path through register itself doesn't have to give +4 delay||

jaunty carbon
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register must have 2 delay, right?

wild vector
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#highscore-hunting is the better place for this discussion

hallow nacelle
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If counter is the only real use case for 8-bit DL aside from the one level we absolutely care about space (little box), could it perhaps be setup that little box itself unlocks the wider DL and just make it a prereq for counter?

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that may not be entirely logical, but the wider DL isn't exactly logical at the moment anyway (it just kind of "shows up" when you hit the architecture levels and component factory)

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idk just an idea that would address the introduction without causing a huge change in the level layout.. but may or may not be considered worthwhile