#Trading tax per trade, scaled by rarity and trade value

535 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

grim patrol
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This is an idea from Warframe:

Any and all trades have an extra tax/fee applied to them, propotional to the total cost of the items being traded and the amount of WP being traded.
WP tax scales linerally at a 5% rate (so a 1 million WP trade would require the recipient to pay a 50,000 WP trading tax. A 10 million trade value would require a tax of 500,00, etc.)
Tax on the item scales on its rarity and dealer cost.
White: 1%
Green: 2%
Yellow: 3%
Purple: 5%
Blue: 10%
Orange: 15%

Parts follow the rarity of the final vehicle, and each complete vehicle is assumed to cost:
White: 2000 WP
Green: 5000 WP
Yellow: 10,000 WP
Purple: 30,000 WP
Blue: 75,000 WP
Orange: 150,000 WP

Tax per part is the dealer price of the vehicle divided by number of parts. I.E:
An AN-225 trade involving 1 part of 10 total would have a 15% tax applied to the parts dealer price of 15,000 WP, making the final tax 2250.
A full SR-71 would cost 22500 WP in tax to trade.
Epic Status is not considered for this transaction, only base rarity.

Any Taxed WP is voided and disappears from the market.

image.png
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Trading tax per trade, scaled by rarity and trade value

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These taxes may seem kinda small, but the entire point is to provide a small void out that happens every time WP is accuumulated to one persons account

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And big trades will take more

loud mica
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either way just.. no

grim patrol
loud mica
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what is the point of the tax.. irl tax money actually goes to someone or something, in aero where would it go to

grim patrol
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The entire point is that money is created from nothing in aeor

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therefore it has to have an outlet to go to nothing

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Think of it like a dam.

You can't juts keep intaking water forever

loud mica
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Sounds like a pointless money sink

grim patrol
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but Aero currently doesn't have a way to properly "Void out" money

grim patrol
loud mica
grim patrol
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The idea is not to make it useful for players

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the entire point is to deflate the value of WP

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making each WP more valuable

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and making the overall market healthier

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As it stands, WP is very inflated because a lot of people have a lot of accumulated money

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and over 1000 people daily are constantly making more moeny from nothing

loud mica
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i love doing 12 hour boat grinding to gain millions in wp

grim patrol
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So we have a system that constantly gains money but has no way to spend it except through transactions

grim patrol
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it only matters if you trade a loit

loud mica
grim patrol
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Like economically this is the most sensible path forwards

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most platforms that use a fictitious, easy to acquire currency have a tax likethis

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Warframe, CS (though thats a platform fee), heck even roblox

loud mica
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i cant say i fully agree with it cause im lowkey tuned out of aeros economic state atm so i cant even fully comment on it

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but uh

grim patrol
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Because if players can infintely create money from nothing, you need to also be able to remove money from the economy without just straight wiping everyone's data like Tarkov

loud mica
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i just know people wouldnt want taxes

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and trading taxes arent planned so

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thas all i got

grim patrol
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Well, this is less a suggestion for the people

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more a framework for the devs

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most of the trade den gets touchy when economic nerfs get thrown around

loud mica
lament pulsar
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i like this, gives alot more depth to trade

grim patrol
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which punished players who don't interact with trading at all

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which is no fun

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This is specific to trading and scales based on trade size, so bigger traders take on a larger portion than someone selling a random part they found

warm maple
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brah tax update,

grim patrol
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Yep here come the trade den guys

image.png
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IT is funny because I often see complaints about hyperinflation after updates

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and yet those same people fight stuff like this that would fix such problems

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Like, if you don't like hyperinflation or taxes, go take an economics class

smoky ocean
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capitalism update or sum shi 😭 😭

grim patrol
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I don't know what to tell you man

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This free market economy aint exactly self regulating when you can manifest money

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Thats like saying "nah this bag of holding has a limit, watch as I put the water plane into it"

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AND I MUST STRESS

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ONLY APPLIES TO TRADES

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NOTHING ELSE

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So if you don't trade anyhting, and many players don't, it literally changes nothing for you

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If you trade a lot, it will have an impact

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but look at those prototypical numbers

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50k WP For a 1 mil trade

fierce warren
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i don

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't think trade den has seen this post yet

grim patrol
slender hare
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Can I dodge said taxes ( aeronautica tax evasion update !!!!!!!!!!!! )

smoky ocean
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tax fraud both ingame and irl

grim patrol
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The tax on the parts themselves is pretty minor

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Like again, AN225 trade for 1 part would only cost 2250 WP

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thats like, 1 regional jet job

slender hare
grim patrol
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Way less than buying a part outright today

grim patrol
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The tax would only apply when trading

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not doing anything else

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And again, it only gets really expensive if you are doing some massive 10 million+ WP trade which would cost 100,000 WP in tax

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If you are like me and mostly do small trades on the order of 50 to 200k WP, its like, barely anything

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And I play warframe, its fine

smoky ocean
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-100% tax zuzasmirk

grim patrol
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YOu will still have a lot of WP to spend

grim patrol
velvet anchor
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honestly i do see what ur getting at with this

errant sparrow
grim patrol
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How is the strongest reaction from those this wouldn’t affect

raw belfry
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I’m trying to not pay taxes irl, I don’t wanna have to pay taxes in games too

halcyon hedge
tardy dune
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this is something that would be so fucking braindead

calm oasis
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Not sure if what I’m about to say is a good idea, but maybe the tax should be based off the current amount of WP/net worth a player has? Could better target rich players compared to this

grim patrol
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I was expecting like Dank and people to be vehemently against it

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But so far its just been people who wouldn't be affected by this

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Also, again, more a suggestion for the devs rather than players

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it'd be unpopular no matter what time

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but its desperately needed

halcyon hedge
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giving things for free would be harder

hard socket
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Are we deadass

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Ok so i understand where you’re going with this but it might just end up further fueling inflation

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Sellers may increase their sale prices by the tax percentage so that they dont lose money, giving buyers (average players) the short end of the stick

grim patrol
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it scales based on the trade

hard socket
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Most wealthy players have their capital in expensive items, namely badge planes

if these items were made more common (likely by being made obtainable through alternative ways such as deliveries or dealerships) it would correct a lot of inflation

grim patrol
hard socket
grim patrol
hard socket
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then scaling means nothing right

grim patrol
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Seller pays for the tax on the plane

hard socket
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then the seller would likely charge the buyer the tax price

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as do real corporations

grim patrol
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if you have a 50k tax

halcyon hedge
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the demand for trading items would shift to the left

grim patrol
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and you tack that on to the price

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then you have to pay 50,500

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Or wait no

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slightly more

hard socket
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Everyones likely gonna do it so not like you will have a choice

grim patrol
hard socket
grim patrol
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Credits in Warframe can't be traded iirc

grim patrol
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Hypermach and othre valuable planes are still to rare to baalnce it out

hard socket
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badge planes are different

grim patrol
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and the inflation stems from every player making WP from nothing

hard socket
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The only way to get them is buying them from another player for an overinflated price

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They arent susceptible to statistical nerfs

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Because their driving factor is rarity

grim patrol
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but you forget that the economy was hyperinflated beforee this

hard socket
grim patrol
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by other high rarity itesm

hard socket
grim patrol
hard socket
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Tier 1 event planes costed that much in 2022

grim patrol
hard socket
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For like a week

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Seastar isnt dropping

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and the other thing is tens of thousands of them exist

hard socket
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though that might kill interest for many lol

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but no change comes without cost

grim patrol
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Badge planes are a bit stupid, I agree

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but it would also piss people off to make them obtainable

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Damned if you do

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damned if you don't

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so better to make the asset more solid

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and devalue it that way

hard socket
grim patrol
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the fucking Hypermach?

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Like yes

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that is an issue

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But its also not the root of the problem

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the value of those things isn't some value someone made up, it was the average price that people paid for it

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meaning that enough people were buying seastars for 20 million or more that it stabilized ther

hard socket
grim patrol
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thats 1/10th of a seastar

hard socket
grim patrol
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and people can pay 3 mil like its nothing

hard socket
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its like we are all living in a diamond mine where players cant get what they want due to artificial scarcity that shouldnt exist to begin with

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In terms of badge planes at least

grim patrol
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The fact that the bell curve goes back UP for 10 ml and above is nuts

grim patrol
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But you can't do anyhting about that without pissing people off

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you can add a tax though, that makes really high prices harder for people to swallow

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Because in the end, evne if prices spike, the tax still exists and will have its share

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People can try to get around it, but because it scales based off WP recieved not WP sent its going to hit the seller harder

hard socket
grim patrol
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Yep

grim patrol
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This system is literally just a carbon copy of Warframes

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where no one really complains about it

hard socket
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Nobody wants taxes at all

grim patrol
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right?

hard socket
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It would harm any average player trying to get a start

grim patrol
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Like sure they weren't the ones that spiked the price

tardy dune
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Why is it that people with knowledge think they're smart

grim patrol
grim patrol
grim patrol
hard socket
grim patrol
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More extreme example:
777-9 would only incur a tax of 2820 WP for teh trade

hard socket
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and what if you trade with cash

grim patrol
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Cash can't buy planes

hard socket
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Trade

grim patrol
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Sure you could like pay someone to convert it

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But then you run afoul of the tax in that trade

calm oasis
grim patrol
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Which is useless unless you a prolific trader

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And it means you won't be able to sell to regular people

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Also Cash can be easily voided by liveries

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and it takes a LOT if you like liveries

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Like, WP can only be voided in 2 ways:

  1. Getting something else of value from it
  2. Adv Customizations, which are tiny.
hard socket
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it is imperative to maintain the health of trading because the fabric of the game depends on it

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And adding taxes will only serve negative affect in the grand scheme

grim patrol
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if Warframe wasn't already doing it

lament pulsar
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I support idea.

grim patrol
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and it has a healthy and strong market

lament pulsar
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1 yes from me!1!!

grim patrol
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Like, this is a pretty standard thing in games with fake currencies

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Aero is more unusual in that it has Peer to Peer trading using ingame currency and NO taxes for it

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either in advertising or the trade itself

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And yes, Trade is super important to the games health

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but so is keeping Trade's prices in check

hard socket
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Better comparisons can be drawn to EVE Online

grim patrol
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But like isn't that kinda more reason?

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Apart from license locking

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Thoguh

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you can't "win" in aero

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There is no winning, only burnout

hard socket
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currently the only egregious offender in prices is boats and badge planes

grim patrol
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BUt when you consider it against the rest of the grind the prices are a bit nuts

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Like SR-71 parts cost a few million a pop iirc

hard socket
grim patrol
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Wait no

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Few hundred thou

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Hypermachs are few millions

grim patrol
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like literally every funcitioning economy in the world

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well, in theory, national debt aside

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If you have a currency with unrestricted growth and no factor keeping it in check, it allows prices to balloon out of control

hard socket
grim patrol
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and artificial scarcity becomes much worse

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because people with millions who want ot collect are willing to pay a LOT

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which sets a high prescedent that the other traders will follow

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Prices are only low if there is:
Low Demand and med-high supply (LCF, A-50, etc)
people don't wnat to pay a bunch for it

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if somethign is artificially scarce AND people have millions to throw at it

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the price balloons

hard socket
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As they remove millions from circulation by essentially giving players something worthless

grim patrol
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Well, not really.

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Its not proper voiding

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its just that its something with a shelf life

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the millions are still in the bank of the seller, ready to be used elsewhere

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but the livery itself is am asset with an expiration date

hard socket
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And eventually the livery itself will have no value

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So everyone who tries to resell it (very few do) will get less than what they paid

grim patrol
hard socket
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and what does the seller use it for
Buying stuff they likely wont sell

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because people who make money off liveries actually put effort into them

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And therefore will actually use their wp

grim patrol
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Collectors will pay almost ANYTHING for a rare piece

hard socket
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not if their funds dry up

grim patrol
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Excatky]

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SO if taxes eat away at thier coffers

hard socket
grim patrol
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then they are forced to pay less

grim patrol
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Means each transaction removes a small portion of their available pool of wealth

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Not so much to instantly kill the market

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but enough

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about 1 job per transaction

hard socket
grim patrol
hard socket
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not if taxed

grim patrol
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A tax of 50k

hard socket
grim patrol
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against a payout of 1mil

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stil gives a total return of 950k

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Or a 2 mil purchase returns 1900k

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Do ya see the point now

hard socket
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What im trying to say is that taxes are:
A: too complicated
B: too universal
C: too ineffective
To produce a notable effect besides upsetting average players

grim patrol
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The tax is not big enough to kill the market

hard socket
grim patrol
grim patrol
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its kicking the can down the road

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So long as people can make WP infinitely, there will always be a constant inflation

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Anytime something new comes along, it will get a bigger, and bigger price

hard socket
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players come and go
Unlike real life

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Taxes are ever persistent for everyone

grim patrol
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and most of the major collectors will try to preserve their collection via selling it or something bfore leaving

calm oasis
grim patrol
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Like it would be hard to quantify

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and it would be very intrusive

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The idea behind this is that its unobtrusive

hard socket
lament pulsar
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Voliant Promotion

Screenshot_2025-12-13_132126.png
grim patrol
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tehy are bad when tacked onto an existing status Quo

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if people can adapt to the taxes early, its fine

calm oasis
grim patrol
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but if you need to add them later it doesn't work because people get mad

hard socket
grim patrol
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Again, Warframe.

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Like I bring it up a lot

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but still

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Unless you just did not allow people to trade with WP and money

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you would still need some form of WP voiding

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otherwise its just gonna be the same infinite money that devalues

hard socket
# grim patrol Again, Warframe.

There is a fundamental difference between that game and aero

Aero is not pay to win

Aero’s core economic idea is not based on limited time gimmicks

Aero has infinite possibilities to make money rather than a linear grind

If all of the methods of making money are balanced relative to each other then prices will naturally adjust accordingly

grim patrol
hard socket
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after searching for literally 5 mins i found you can buy ingame currency

grim patrol
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which you can trade with otehr players

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which is taxed

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and can only be used to trade for specific items anyone can get

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like Primed warframe and weapon bleuprints

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The other use is cosmetics

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and thats it

tardy dune
grim patrol
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the prime access passes only skip grinding relics and don't give you anything any other player couldn't get with grinding

grim patrol
grim patrol
# hard socket

But if your main arugment against taxing players on trading is "But the example is pay to win" like.......

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idk what to tell ya man

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BEcause Warframe is not even the only game that does that

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Its just the closest proxy

lament pulsar
tardy dune
grim patrol
# hard socket There is a fundamental difference between that game and aero Aero is not pay to...

Ok other things:

  1. its not, and shouldn't be. badge planes were a bad idea. Ditto crates.

  2. Not really. The job variety is comparable to mission variety in Warframe. Its all the same rewards in a different coat of paint.

  3. No. Because people can and will spend money as they get it and if there is no outlet for that money it will inflate. That is basic economics. PRices are invariably tended to get more expensive as people gain more money and can spend moer

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its why the market at the beginning of the game was really small and cheap

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People didn't have planes to grind wiht

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I think the most expensive was COncordes at like 140k a pop?

lament pulsar
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is Dank dead

grim patrol
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That was decently expensive back then but not insane

grim patrol
lament pulsar
grim patrol
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I mean in the end this was always a long shot

lament pulsar
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anyways did u see my ping in lore discuss

grim patrol
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Communities do not really like supporting changes to established systems that nerf them

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especially if that system enables a lot of playstyles

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HOWEVER

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Its also a game devs job to consider the health of the game long term

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and no do stuff like artificial scaricity and such

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That includes some way of ensuring players cannot be dragons and hoard functionally infinite wealth

hard socket
loud mica
lament pulsar
hard socket
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Its not as simple as a plug and play fix like this

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the only way to understand is to understand the people

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Not looking at them as numbers

lament pulsar
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Mmm

grim patrol
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because we are designing something to be integrated into an existing system

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hence my point that it would've been easier had this been in the game from the start

warm maple
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So what's the conclusion eh? inb4 get tagged "meh u not trade player, why u care/u dont understand economic thingy-ish"

sterile cape
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yes, we should tax the rich

grim patrol
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This is the sort of thing you implement before releasing a game

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Not in the middle of its lifespan with a good market

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This sort of thing is generally the least intrusive way to manage a market

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But you can’t just suddenly implement a new market control or else you will piss off your players

loud mica
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NO TAXES!

grim patrol
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They probably would happen in a clean sheet game just to control the economy better

loud mica
grim patrol
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Has been for a while

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Dunno where you got that from

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They dropped the Alpha badge a while ago

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And it no longer lists “Alpha” in the title at any time

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I don’t think it’s ever been official

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But it is out of alpha

loud mica
grim patrol
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And an economy reset is almost guaranteed unless they want to inherit a lot of tech debt

grim patrol
loud mica
grim patrol
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Because iirc it hasn’t been called alpha for a WHILE

loud mica
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along with myself

loud mica
grim patrol
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And it would accompany an economy reset as well

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So it wouldn’t really matter anyways

loud mica
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yuck!

grim patrol
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Take lessons learned from the first into the second

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And if the economy gets wiped anyways, that’s prime time to implement new things

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Because otherwise you set yourself up for the same failure

loud mica
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If you say so Shrug

grim patrol
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Which kinda set the scale for inflation for a while

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But before that the most expensive items were like th Concorde and such

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And the maxed out at 200k at their most expensive

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So like, the economy could be doing a lot better for itself

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But alas, artificial scarcity+ unimpeded inflation

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But yeah like the only time the market was truly not inflated was before Hypermach just after the SST License was added

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When the Concorde and TU-144 prices crashed due to them needing a new license and the other SSTs were just OK

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But after the Hypermach spiked prices most kits got a lot more expensive

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Hence the jokes of hyperinflation

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I mean I guess that’s the thing:
the infinite money on its own is fine.
The artificial scarcity is fine on its own too.

But when you combined the 2, it means that each time the devs add a new, super rare aircraft, it ends up being even more expensive than the last. If it was all Concordes and 144s still, the market would probably be fine, but with the badge planes, there is suddenly a big outlet for people’s accumulated millions, which makes the relatively solid net worth of collecting planes into very liquid assets that can be consolidated into a more solid asset like a badge plane

cyan aspen
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what the actual fuck

grim patrol
errant sparrow
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Oh idk

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tHe WhOLe IdEA t0 tAx thE AeRonAUtiCa TrADiNg cOmmUNiTy

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I mean nobody wants to the idea to pay extra for a annoying deletion of cash system idea (tax) cuz it's obvious, it's a free economy in which you can't just do this, dispite yeah it's a stop gap to destroy the hyperinflation problem, but even so nobody wants this and it's not the permanent solution, dispite I don't trade ofter (In which you got me earlier there and couldn't counter it 🤡 )... It just not possible due to community.... so yes...

grim patrol
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its timing

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Had the community had it from the start, no one probably would've bat an eye

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like in Warframe

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but adding it in after the fact is a no go

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Unless the devs decided to just powermove it

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Which is always on the table unless some other fix is sought. Taxes are the omnipresent nuclear option which the devs could implement to control the economy by force

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But that would break the already flimsy illusion of a "Player driven economy"

errant sparrow
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Yeah

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So unfortunately

grim patrol
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No IRS in aeronautica

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yet

loud mica
grim patrol
# loud mica <:Concerned:1154833467490701312>

Well that's what happens when you make a new game.
Simulating an economy, even on a small scale, is a nightmare. You can't really predict how the cost of things will even out to, only guess at ratios and trends.
its why economists get paid so much. And given Aero wasn't made by an economist, there are doubtless a LOT of lesosns the devs have learned and want to implement even if they can't in the current game

cyan aspen
honest meteor
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ts got me dead

cyan aspen
subtle stream
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allat for a plane game

loud mica
honest meteor
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What even is this guys point like why do we need tax....

loud mica
honest meteor
loud mica
slender hare
grim patrol
grim patrol
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Each part has an assigned value as I laid out in the original message

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And as you add or remove stuff the tax will recalculate

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Each part will have its own tax percentage and thus the game will calculate each cost on its own and then sum the total

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Any and all taxed WP disappears permanently

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Hey random thought just occurred:
this could be used to make UP tradable

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The biggest issue with making UP tradeable is that:

  1. it could be traded at an unequal value.
  2. UP allows for people to bypass dealers so if people were selling it on the cheap then it would become too easy to get everything ingame.

HOWEVER, if UP was taxed at a rate of 50000 WP per UP or something like that, it would force a baseline control AND make getting large amount of UP highly cost prohibitive, especially for new players

hard socket
grim patrol
# hard socket

Hey I’m not saying it’s going to be added or anything

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Just that it could be added

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If the devs ever decide to make UP tradable for some reason

hard socket
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its a rejected suggestion trunno

grim patrol
honest meteor
# grim patrol Game calculates as you adjust the trade value

Again no reason on why this only explains how they will work also irl taxes go into making stuff better for eg roads quality of life and shi like that...but why would we need taxes to make our lifes better in a game where money can be spawned out of thine air

last dock
honest meteor
last dock
honest meteor
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For eg if you i buy a boat for 10mill would it cost me 100k+ to maintain?

last dock
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yea boats cost a leg and a kidney to overhaul

grim patrol
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Plus selling bonds n such

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Taxes don’t just make your live better in some way, they are als used IRL as a way to control inflation and stop the mint from making money faster than it can be removed from circulation

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This would have a similar function: remove WP from circulation at a roughly equal rate as it’s created

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It wouldn’t totally eliminate inflation, but it would stop it from getting worse

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This is going to rapidly get into the weeds of economies and controlling inflation but basically:
IRL the government creates money to pay for stuff, and then uses taxes and other things to remove that money from circulation so they aren’t just printing money.
Taxes aren’t directly used to do anything technically, they are just taken and turned back into nothing, either by paying off debts or just straight up not letting it back into circulation. The government can use the amount of taxes they collected to then decide how much money to print next year, how that factors into budgets, etc

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It’s closed loop of money that starts and end with the federal bank of the country

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In Aeronautica the game itself is that central bank, but it doesn’t have a way to remove money without giving the player something worth value in return

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You can buy ships or gamble, but those can both be sold for more than you spent, and Overhauling only becomes necessary after you’ve made money with the vehicle

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Advanced customizations are the only true way that WP can be removed from circulation, but most people don’t change their customizations that often, especially when compared to trading

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So we are left with an economy that lacks any way of self regulating the amount of WP in circulation, which leads to

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Anytime anything new and rare is added, as people have more money to spend than the last time.

candid rune
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Warframe mentioned????? :0

honest meteor
grim patrol
honest meteor
grim patrol
honest meteor
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Overall id say a small rework on wp to fix hyper inflataction is needed but i dont think taxes will fix it

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Also the fact hyperinflation is not a high problem rn

last dock
loud mica
grim patrol
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Artificial scarcity is on the devs to not do

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Wealth Consolidation is something that requires some form of currency voiding to avoid

last dock
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scarcity is not gonna change

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i very much doubt that the devs will add another seastar spawn wave

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regarding wealth consolidation, i don't think adding a trading tax is the best way to make a currency sink

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it pisses everyone off without actually taking that much WP

grim patrol
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the gambling can give parts worth WAY more than the money spent

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and ships can be collected until you have all of them, and then they can be sold for even more money

last dock
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IMO the best way to do this would be one-time use features

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but this would still be controversial enough that it would need to be carefully considered before addition

grim patrol
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I guess but its also like

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Its gotta happen eventually

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Else we are gonna get to the first 1 billion WP sale sooner or later

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Any way you add a sink is gonna annoy people

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people like having wealth, and forcefully removing it, even if its in small amounts, is going to be annoying

honest meteor
grim patrol
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We are all dragons which wish for a cave full of gold to lord over at the end of the day

last dock
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without forcing them

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people can hold onto their money, but if they do they're missing out on sth

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tl;dr we need to add things to spend WP on, rather than taxing WP on mundane stuff

grim patrol
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I mean, in that regard you could technically make a shop of untradeable airplanes

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A special "toms totally legit aircraft" that sells various aircraft that are for flexing only and cannot be traded

last dock
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once people have bought these, they'll start hoarding again

grim patrol
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Right

grim patrol
last dock
grim patrol
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Yeah

last dock
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but i did talk about this earlier

grim patrol
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but something along those lines

last dock
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i do think the best solution would be to add either one-time aircraft

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or server-wide events

grim patrol
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Donate WP, activate something on the server

last dock
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yea something like that

honest meteor
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Id but that

last dock