Extend Aircraft Delivery Timers to Allow Realistic Flying

[kind oxide]

My suggestion is to increase the mission timer on these deliveries to allow ATC charts to be followed. For example, I had an aircraft delivery job from KLAB to KCIA and at that distance most flight time is spent below 10k feet where speed is limited. While following JAMSY4 approach via AKU, once on final the timer ran out despite only a 13 minute flight. Extending the timer for that length of mission by around 5-7 minutes and proportionally for the longer deliveries would help realistic flyers continue to enjoy the game even during these missions.

[spiral spoke]

i think everyone just cares about getting the planes

[viral zephyr]

imo aero is not what you wanna play for realistic flying

So this is getting a from me

I think the mission timer is long enough

[spiral spoke]

yeah

[alpine widget]

solution:

• climb higher to get a perfect parabola
• fuck realism

[kind oxide]

it isnt, it was 2 mins short at minimum of what you need

why does everyone just hate realistic flyers omg

[spiral spoke]

it gives you what you need to get the job done.. whats the problem

it gives you enough time to taxi, climb to a reasonable altitude, descend, and taxi off the runway

[kind oxide]

it should accomodate different playstyles too

[spiral spoke]

id say thats good

[kind oxide]

it doesnt, thats the issue

thats literally the problem

[spiral spoke]

ive done that on every single job ive donr :skrolled:

[kind oxide]

yeah, but you dont fly with procedure

I think that playstyle should be accomodated for all jobs

eh we shall see what the devs think

[wispy sedge]

Timer should be paused when on ground if a player wants to do taxi realistically

[viral zephyr]

I don’t see much problem in this specifically (except for mission timer being long already), but the idea of accommodating for realistic fliers in aero just doesn’t make sense for me

[sudden apex]

sure why not

thanks for the suggestion

[upbeat sorrel]

W rice

accommodating for people who wanna fly by regulation is a great thing imo

[zinc rapids]

I don't get why people oppose a longer timer, they don't get affected in any way

Why not remove the timer altogether?

[kind oxide]

This too, like the new A342 job gives you an hour and a half for a flight I can fly realistically with more than 20 mins left on the timer, why not for all delivery jobs?

[kind oxide]

I'm honestly not sure, I've noticed the community seems to shut down a lot of things just for either trolling or no reason at all

[upbeat sorrel]

fr

literally what is the reason to downvote this lmao

[quiet totem]

Wait people are disliking this suggestion... because it would increase the timer of aircraft delivery?

I feel like the Aero playerbase has flanderized the game from a flight simulator with economic mechanics to a game for only making lots of WP.....

[lethal wagon]

L to all the bozos that oppose this

let us realistic flyers fly in peace ain't our fault you like taking off from the ramp

[upbeat sorrel]

exactly what i was thinking

[kind oxide]

right like why is it all about minmaxxing

[jade linden]

the thing is that aero jobs are mostly arcade focused - there are already plenty of features for realistic flyers such as waypoints and ATC that an arcade side for the more casual player is needed to balance out the game

like it or not, the majority of aeronautica's playerbase are not realistic players, increasing the timer limit reduces the time pressure on the player and hence makes the job less fun as a whole, whilst only catering to a minor demographic of the playerbase at best

now dont get me wrong, realistic flying is fun af but there has to be some level of difficulty especially when jobs are concerned

[cerulean igloo]

“its too easy”

yeah totally not like you get way more than enough time anyway

it gives so much time that its effectively useless

[fleet pumice]

For the sake of it, more time on the job means less chances to grind 2 or more per cycle means it’s balanced itself

[fleet pumice]

Last time we tried realistic AOA we had a revolt that you can’t anymore just point nose straight up in the air

[wispy sedge]

give them a month to cope and they will get used to it

[cerulean igloo]

lmao

[wispy sedge]

just like the new ui

[quiet totem]

Do it again for the funny

[fleet pumice]

I’d rather not because physics are more crucial than UI

[quasi spindle]

I agree

[fleet pumice]

Late April fools fr

[quasi spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/sukhoi-plane-cobra-maneuver-su27-sukhoi-su27-gif-20743994

[quiet totem]

True!!! But I guess for this to be re implemented again, most of the physics would have to be fixed

Call it a physics rework

Or not

any works

[tribal jackal]

Realistic thrust vectoring when!!!!!

[lament drum]

"Climb higher" would be so planes can fly above 250 knots

Not flying a ballistic trajectory (because we have wings; aerodynamic lift keeps us fluong not momentum)

[lament drum]

I mean the timer ends once you finish the job anyway so even with a longer timer you can still get twl of said jobs within 1 cycle

A better workaround for this suggestion would be to make flying realistically mandatory.

• Exceeding 250 knots under 10k feet would end the job
  • Tho keep in mind the "250kts speed limit under 10k feet" depends on ATC's discretion based on how busy the airspace is. If its a barren airspace then they'd let you go 400 in a 250. If its LHR/JFK type shit then good luck getting ATC to let you fly 220kts. Idk how will this be reflected ingame
• Players must go through altitude- & location-specific waypoints, a la Surveillance jobs
• No taxiing & taking off through grass. Taxi on taxiways (or runways when necessary), takeoff on runways, land on runways, taxi on taxiways, park at a certain gate or stand.

Wdyt?

[alpine widget]

short flights that have the top of ascent and descent at the same spot do look somewhat like a parabola

Lynwood -> Clarence is definitely a short flight

[kind oxide]

I woudl love realistic AOA but I know thats not the style of the game

[kind oxide]

maybe if there was a specific job for this, but I don't see this fitting into the m,ain game in its current state, it would be entirely different and would probably never pass a player survey

I think both realistic and arcade style need to be accomodated. At the very least there would have to be a toggle betweenm the two options

[lament drum]

[kind oxide]

yeah, it was short but not quite short eenough for an instant descent. unless I climbed higher than I did

[silent tusk]

I like this but its no

[foggy flume]

Why are people denying this

Hello???

What has slightly more time done to you

[silent tusk]

It's unnecessary

[foggy flume]

For you

Not for realistic flyers

?

[silent tusk]

And the said community

[foggy flume]

I dont mind longer times

Some few other people do

Rice said sure

Its unnecessary but it doesnt really do you much harm

Its a simple change in code

[wispy sedge]

it doesn't do any harm for you

[round vale]

no:
1: i fly realistically and i still have 26 minutes spare

what i mean by realistically is actually taking off on the runway

[zinc rapids]

Clearly it is necessary, according to several people so far

[silent tusk]

But the mission it self has sufficient time to be finished

[zinc rapids]

That's not the problem?

[silent tusk]

Listen when I done the 787 delivery job I has a time of around 10-14 minutes

[silent tusk]

At the closest point which is Clarence

[zinc rapids]

Have you read the post? Just the title is enough

With realistic flying you can easily spend more than 15 minutes just taxiing on the ground at departure

[silent tusk]

And still finishing in the given time?

[zinc rapids]

No... that's why this post was made!

[silent tusk]

Or is it?

We probably need to test it

(I can't do it atm cuz I not on PC)

[upbeat sorrel]

true

[upbeat sorrel]

but like i dont understand the issue because how does this affect anyone negatively

it would be best to just remove the timer entirely

[silent tusk]

Actually yes

[upbeat sorrel]

as titanium previously stated

[foggy flume]

Riogri doesnt really read fully sometimes

[cerulean igloo]

this is why people clueless react his suggestions lmao

[foggy flume]

Also the same reason why he clueless reacts other people’s suggestions

[kind oxide]

What I mean is by following SIDs, STARs, and approach procedures, as well as below 250 kts below FL100

[kind oxide]

It didn't

[upbeat sorrel]

basically flying by regulation

[kind oxide]

Yes

I don't want a number to call every time I land

[kind oxide]

It takes me 10-15 minutes to just set up my departure

I managed to do it in 2 by doing it as I roll down the runway but still failed

[upbeat sorrel]

i wish i didnt have to enter a job just to be able to select terminal parking

[kind oxide]

... I tested it and made this post

[upbeat sorrel]

and you cant do that at every location either

[foggy flume]

Why do you think the op made the post…

[upbeat sorrel]

the reading comprehension is crazy

[cerulean igloo]

just remove the time limit 😭

[upbeat sorrel]

as titanium said

[foggy flume]

Reading comprehension non existent

[cerulean igloo]

if you fly like most players the timer effectively doesnt exist lmao

thats why it should just be removed

[foggy flume]

Ill be honest i wanna try flying regulation one day

I just havent played aero in several months

[cerulean igloo]

aeroatc charts integration when

[kind oxide]

If you need help with the procedures let me know I love teaching people this stuff

[upbeat sorrel]

the only thing that bothers me when flying by regulation is taxiing

because floating point

its bad outside of oconia

[kind oxide]

I just avoid valois and riziere and the rest are not as bad

Even umi isn't as bad as valois

[cerulean igloo]

sometimes i get impatient and take off from the taxiway

[foggy flume]

Yippee

[upbeat sorrel]

ngl i could use some help too lol

maybe

[kind oxide]

Sure you can dm and I'll help you when I'm available to

[upbeat sorrel]

i suck at making flight plans

[round vale]

Putting that into consideration, and applying the time remaining
I reckon a few minutes will still be spared

[kind oxide]

Not from KLAB -> KCIA

I was about 2 minutes short, as per the post

[kind oxide]

This is only my experience for the new A342 job

[oak crown]

Seriously? You’ve gotta be kidding me that’s such a shame

[cerulean igloo]

yeah :((((

surveillance and sst grinders probably crashed out

i can understand though because the fuel consumption on those planes are ass

still sucks

[oak crown]

oh nooo op planes have to work like real planes

horrifying stuff

[kind oxide]

Even on surv you can still fly realistically

Especially with U-2, SOFIA, and a few others

[cerulean igloo]

yeah true

supersonic surv tho

you’d run out of fuel before you even reach service ceiling lmfao

[lament drum]

How many knots do you taxi on taxiways? 50?

[lament drum]

I managed to refuel like only twice in the Sotka

Sometimes only once in the SR-71

But both of them are certainly not by flying realistically

Closest i got is when an ATC is online. Even then i do a beyond-space shuttle & London City approach combined

[rare iron]

I think an acceptable taxi speed range would be 15 kts to 30 kts

[rare iron]

yeah that’s what I do as well

typically i do one stop along the way and then continue

then after completing surv it’s str8 beeline back (usually back to tomfoolery) with another stop

[cerulean igloo]

yea

[cerulean igloo]

bro probably takes off from the taxiway

[rare iron]

but even then around corners I slow down to about 5 kts

[lament drum]

[rare iron]

I mean 10 knots is plenty but if you’re in a big aircraft then

[cerulean igloo]

me when i run off the taxiway trying to turn my a340 at 30 kts

[rare iron]

hold that LMB and A/D for dear life

high speed exits on runways are a blessing

I don’t need to hold B until I get to a normal turning speed

[lament drum]

From a friend who's a flightsimmer & knew several irl pilots, he gave me a cheatsheet:

• 10 knots on 90°+ turns
• 15 knots on 45° (or less) turns
• Around 20-25 knots for straights (or maybe like <10° turns)
• 40 knots & below when taxiing on runway

Thats at least for A320s, 737s, 777s & original fuselage 747s

Because those are what they fly on sim

[rare iron]

you follow that as well?

[lament drum]

Yup

[rare iron]

might keep in mind

[lament drum]

Only when flying realistically tho

If im doing something time- or fuel-consuming i just throw that out the window & takeoff on snow in Tomfoolery

[rare iron]

I use the 78X a lot so I have to keep turns slow given how long it is

It’s not that bad but

it’s long

[lament drum]

So far id only fly realistically if its na airliner

[cerulean igloo]

ive followed something like this too

[lament drum]

Even my friend there isnt sure whether combat aircraft taxies at a higher speed

[spiral spoke]

[lament drum]

But we assume civilian-derived combat aircraft (like E-767, A330 MRTT, etc.) use the same procedures as their civilian counterparts

[spiral spoke]

wait the 330 MRTT is in game?

[rare iron]

if we do get JED in the future, realistic taxi’s gonna be fun with the design of it

(this is just a shortened video but all in all taxi took like 7.5 mins)

but anywho

[upbeat sorrel]

usually i like to follow a similar procedure

although i do taxi a bit slower

like 20 knots max

[rare iron]

if it’s str8 ahead I bump up an extra 5 kts ^

[upbeat sorrel]

usually outside of oconia i dont even bother

[rare iron]

Valois is a pain to stay on the taxiway

cuz floating point

[upbeat sorrel]

yeah

certain locations are also just bumpy asf

like anhedral city

[rare iron]

but I try to keep it nice

[rare iron]

oh dear that place

oakport as well isn’t so bad

-# still, ema is lacklustre the only good thing about it is the freight it gets, birmingham airport on top

rolling takeoffs are my go to for some airports

[upbeat sorrel]

or sometimes i dont feel like waiting 10 minutes on the ground so i just go straight to the runway

[rare iron]

rawaki for one

is such a short taxi

(15 kts for me only at that airport)

[quiet totem]

If only realistic AOA was reimplemented...

[lament drum]

How does realistic AOA works tho?

[oak crown]

Would make stall characteristics so much less garbage

Would absolutely support realistic AOA being added back again

[cerulean igloo]

aoa based stall

and such

[lime juniper]

I think the 250 kts in game is in TAS and GS, not IAS. why? because I've seen planes climbing out of singapore in fr24 where they sometimes already hit 300 kts GS at like 6000 ft and climbing

[lime juniper]

https://discord.com/channels/820044095535185951/1337670737212739646 vro

[fleet pumice]

I know my word means nothing since not coder but again, don’t see anything wrong with that, it doesn’t really affect economy even slightly

Those who want and can do to it fast to be able to get 2 planes or even 3 if lucky per cycle still can do it

If anything it gives more FREEDOM RAH 🦅

My will I would’ve removed time there completely, not like it’s urgent cargo jobs or smth of that kind to have time limit

[lament drum]

Im into that shit

[lament drum]

Actually tho by just increasing the job timer without increasing the time between job cycles, you can still do more than 1 job per cycle if you speedrun the job, just like how it is currently

[fleet pumice]

Exactly my point

So I don’t see why not

[lament drum]

Also since youre here mind linking me your full explanation as to why no AoA-based stall/realistic AoA?

[fleet pumice]

Not a coder not my question to answer

If you mean when back in the day people revolted because of poor thrust at 20 degrees AOA it’s not about stall

[kind oxide]

15-24, anything above 30 the game turns off your nose wheel steering

[lime juniper]

like... back when SSTs suddenly have poor acceleration performance when climbing straight up with A/B?

[kind oxide]

yeah, its 250kts airspeed not groundspeed. An aircraft in the air can't measure an exact groundspeed unless they know the winds at their altitude afaik

[lime juniper]

no like the indicators in game is in TAS and GS

[kind oxide]

no its indicated

[lime juniper]

I am fully aware of the whole 250 kts limit but that's in IAS

[lime juniper]

explain how is it IAS in aeronautica

[kind oxide]

unless you are flying a blimp or something it is

[lime juniper]

IAS is relative to the pressure on the sensors or some shit

[kind oxide]

only blimps add the V/S to the IAS

[lime juniper]

TAS is like uhh measuring the real speeds with winds and shit affected (same as IAS but the values would be far different)

[kind oxide]

yes, it is the speed at which air moves over the wings which determines lift

[lime juniper]

and GS is, well, the speed relative to the ground

[kind oxide]

GS is subtracted from AS in game so it is IAS

there would be no reason to show GS if it were TAS rather than IAS

[lime juniper]

[kind oxide]

yes but remember how weather is constant at all altitudes in game?

[lime juniper]

dude there's literally the GS indicator RIGHT NEXT TO THE 'MAIN' INDICATOR

fym no reason to show GS??

[kind oxide]

if weather differed at altitude then you would be correct

[lime juniper]

still, IAS and TAS are two wildly different readings

[kind oxide]

TAS and GS would be the same in gam e because there is no air pressure, no difference in nweather at altitude, no cloud density, etc

[kind oxide]

yes they are

[lime juniper]

you're forgetting about the windspeed now?

[kind oxide]

even so TAS is not what is shown

I meant TAS and IAS

[lime juniper]

cuz I've landed in oskufloi in my K500 when it was storming, and the main indicator reads 140 kts, and guess what those little numbers on the bracket (literally the GS indicator) say? 100 fucking knots

[kind oxide]

and when looking at ytour instruments always expect to see indicated air speed

[kind oxide]

that's because youwere landing with a 40 kt headwind

thats literally how that works

?airspeed

dang

[lime juniper]

still, it's in TAS

[kind oxide]

?indicated air speed

[lime juniper]

you can literally go play simpleplanes and you can achieve 250 kts IAS at like 6000 ft and when you change the reading, it'll say like 270 to 280 kts TAS

they're two different values entirely

[kind oxide]

its not TAS because you are given a correction for the weather, otherwise you might have a stall at a spped indicated on the controls at higher than what your stall speed is which literally never happens

[lime juniper]

sure, your IAS on the PFD will say like 300 kts, but at 36000 ft? your plane is in fact going 470 or even 480 knots in TAS

[kind oxide]

... but that speed only occurs because of the tailwinds common at those altitudes

and some pressure changes

which arent in game

its just wind in game

[lime juniper]

IAS uses air pressure...

[kind oxide]

speed at altitude remains constant to speed at sea level in game

[lime juniper]

and TAS uses wind and other parameters...

[kind oxide]

slightly different than how you think

mate I've been to ground school ok

just sttop

[lime juniper]

it never really made sense for me to go like slower than 250 kts in aeronautica especially on descends and climbs

[kind oxide]

then dont

you don't need to fly realistically

but I want to

and I completely fail to understand the "fun for me but not for thee" mentality of the people who don't like the suggestion here

like this harms nobody

[lime juniper]

since I see planes out there descending into SIN (yes, I live almost next door) in FR24 where they still go at like 270 or 280 when passing 10000 ft in descents, and even hit 300 kts GS in a climb at 6000 ft

so I... apply the same logic in game

[kind oxide]

because the indicated air sped that the pilots are seeing is only 250, or they have been given approval by ATC for high speed

[lime juniper]

and since the GS isn't too much of a difference to the 'standard' speed indicator, I simply let the plane climb and accelerate up to 300 kts in climbs or maintsin 260 to 280 in descents

[kind oxide]

also, some aircraft, due to the difference in TAS and IAS that you speak of, cant go slower than 250kts TAS because they would stall

such as heavies

pretty much anything heavy is gonna be going faster

Do you know how temperature affects lift?

at higher altitudes the temps drop rapidly but in hot weather you may need to climb faster due to the less dense air

it's actually a calculation pilots need to make before taking off

[rare iron]

you can just about taxi around the soft corners with no issue though

[oak crown]

does bro know about wind

[kind oxide]

no wind is included

[foggy flume]

It does

No?

[kind oxide]

not for me

wind stays the same

[foggy flume]

Winds are much higher at higher altitudes than lower ones

[kind oxide]

not in aeronautica which is what that comment was talking about

[foggy flume]

?

It is

[kind oxide]

then why does the difference between airspeed and groundspeed stay consistent at altitude

[foggy flume]

Have u ever like looked at the wind speed when ur flying

[foggy flume]

For that i have no idea

[kind oxide]

yeah it doesnt change at altitude that was like the first thing I looked at when playing the game

[foggy flume]

But the wind does slightly change when ur cruising vs sea level

14 kt winds on ground vs like 60 at cruising altitude

[kind oxide]

if it changes its by an amount small enough to make me think its just cuz my location changed

[foggy flume]

Or am i just hallucinating this

[kind oxide]

I htink you are hallucinating

like storm clouds end at 70k feet bnut the wind persists

great now i gotta check this

alright I'm going to verify in game everything I said during that convo

[lament drum]

The winds do change above 30k feet

It can be 5 knots ASL in Clarence but 30k feet up, its like 50 knots

[foggy flume]

Yeah so im not wrong

[foggy flume]

[kind oxide]

I appear to have been correct

wind is consistent at altitude as well as pressure and speed

which is odd because that would indicate it is total airspeed, but with no pressure differences IAS and TAS should be the same

so it literally doesnt matter

[oak crown]

Pressure difference is like the whole point

[kind oxide]

Right but the pressure didn't change

[oak crown]

Sorry wait what was the point of this discussion

been out and about all day

mb

[cerulean igloo]

the fact that aero doesnt account for pressure changes and stuff

and someone else misunderstanding

smth like that

[oak crown]

Oh gotcha

[oak crown]

It kinda does though

[lament drum]

Just by increasing the stall speed the higher you go

[cerulean igloo]

lmao

[oak crown]

Indicated stall speed will be the same number no matter the pressure

TAS is where it changes

[lament drum]

but what I meant is how the game simulates lowering air pressure the higher you go

You stall at a higher airspeed, the higher you go, compared to near sea level ingame

[oak crown]

Yeah, because the number is (at least simulating) TAS

[lament drum]

Sorta but we can assume Aero airspeed to be in TAS

Again, air density simulation is only in form of increased stall speed & whatnot

Other than that (e.g IAS simulation), absent

i mean if Fly implements IAS simulation everyone would get confused

[oak crown]

Yeah

Really wish there was IAS & TAS

Or a more proper TAS that actually makes sense ingame