Directionality of the "Origin" feature is unclear | 7TV | Page 1

knotty pawn Oct 11, 2023, 11:53 PM

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Note: This issue was the result of a misunderstanding of how the Origin feature worked, mainly because the use of the word "Origin" implies (to me) that the set being chosen in the Origin dropdown is the parent, and the set it's being added to is the child*. I discussed this at length with ansonx10 and we spitballed a number of alternative names for the feature. The most promising one we came up with was “Include other set”, which I think better describes the functionality and directionality.

*e.g., “I have a normal set called Default and a set of overrides called Halloween; I open the settings for Halloween and set Default as an origin, because Halloween is the child”. In reality, the opposite is true.

Below is the original text of the post.

Take an example channel which has a default emote set with 900 emotes. If a user creates a holiday emote set with 200 emotes that replace 200 emotes in the base set, the "Origin" feature behaves in an unexpected way. It appears that emotes from the origin always appear in the holiday emote set, even if the holiday emote set replaces them. As a result, using Origin here to create a full holiday set is impossible, because it would result in an emote set with a size of 1100. This is despite the fact that the actual number of usable emotes in the set is still only 900-- 700 emotes from the original default set and 200 from the holiday set.

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Emote sets using the "Origin" feature should omit conflicts

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:13 AM

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From your description it's not completely clear; are you adding the holiday set as an origin to your "main" (non-origin) set? That's the only way it will work. If the main set is added as an "origin" then it won't work.

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It sounds like maybe you've done it in reverse.

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:43 AM

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eager jungle It sounds like maybe you've done it in reverse.

Ohhhh, no kidding?

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So it’s supposed to be:

Create a partial set with Halloween emotes
Set that as an Origin in the settings of the default set?

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:44 AM

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yes

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:44 AM

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Well I’ll be

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:45 AM

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"Origin" is not a very clear word for it, but they couldn't think of anything else.

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It's the "origin" of the additional emotes that will be added to your main set

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:45 AM

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Yeah, honestly origin to me implies the opposite, hence the confusion

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Maybe something explicit to the holiday emotes use case

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Like “Add variants” or “Add overrides”

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Idk

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:48 AM

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eager jungle It's the "origin" of the additional emotes that will be added to your main set

Anyway, thanks for the clarification! happ

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:48 AM

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no problem

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"Variants" is a term that was going to be used for something else

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"overrides" makes sense when you're just replacing emotes, but that's not the only thing that additional emote sets are used for

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People sometimes add uniquely-named emotes

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:49 AM

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Yeah, that’s true I suppose

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As I was looking around the server I saw discussion of potentially allowing multiple emote sets to be active at once. Is that what Origins is meant to be, or is there something else in the pipeline that you know of?

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:51 AM

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yes

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My idea was to make it like Minecraft's resource pack UI

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:52 AM

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Oh that was you!

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:52 AM

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where you can choose the order as well

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:52 AM

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I didn’t remember the name but I remember seeing a mockup of that using the minecraft buttons

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:52 AM

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yep. lol

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I STILL wish it could be that way

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it would be very clear

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:52 AM

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Yeah

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:52 AM

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but there were some technical reasons why doing that wouldn't be very easy on the serverside

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:53 AM

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Sure, makes sense

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:54 AM

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I never really liked the term "origins" but I couldn't come up with something better either. lol

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:55 AM

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“Include other set”?

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Just spitballing

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:55 AM

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that would work

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:56 AM

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Or make it more explicitly programmy like “import”, though import kind of implies a one-way operation

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:56 AM

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yeah

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a term like "append" could work

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in Blender, "append" is a one-shot thing, and "link" is a live-updating version of that same feature.

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:57 AM

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I think that has the inverse problem of override tbh

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as in, to me, append doesn’t really denote the replacing functionality— only the adding

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Oh link isn’t bad actually

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A little vague

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:58 AM

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yeah very vague

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:58 AM

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knotty pawn as in, to me, append doesn’t really denote the replacing functionality— only the...

yeah

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:58 AM

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Eh, it’s a working problem aPES_Giggle

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:59 AM

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back to your original question, I'm not sure how it handles stuff if you go over 1000 emotes

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by adding a set

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I'm a sane person and have never had anywhere near that many emotes in a set

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 2:59 AM

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If you do it in reverse like I did, it truncates to 1000

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 2:59 AM

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does it intelligently avoid counting the identically-named emotes?

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 3:00 AM

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Whether it does it in order of addition or emote I’d or what, idk

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Nope

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Well

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It seems to if you do it the right way around

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But if you add “Default” as an Origin of “Halloween”, for instance

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It got cut off at 1000

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 3:01 AM

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interesting

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I think the correct solution is "don't have so many heckin emotes!"

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 3:02 AM

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But yeah, doing it the other way, the way you described, gives the correct number on Default, including the Halloween emotes

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 3:02 AM

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eager jungle I think the correct solution is "don't have so many heckin emotes!"

This is for a streamer I mod for, and trust me, our emote count is a contentious debate

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I saw elsewhere that emote usage counts are a WIP

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 3:02 AM

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yeah

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 3:03 AM

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But before that, I was working on a program to give us that telemetry ourselves

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 3:03 AM

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lots of things are WIP

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 3:03 AM

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Because there was so much wailing and gnashing of teeth any time we needed to purge emotes, we needed a way to do it based on data

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 3:03 AM

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I remember the first time I saw xqc add an emote, he had to remove one as well

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so he removed forsenWeb from FFZ

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I'm sure he was a FFZ sub so he would've had FIFTY emote slots

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insane to think how far we've come from 50 + whatever BTTV gave you

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BTTV used to be 10 total emotes if you didn't pay

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 3:04 AM

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I’m honestly not sure how the channel in question is at 900

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It’s… it’s a lot

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 3:05 AM

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eager jungle BTTV used to be 10 total emotes if you didn't pay

Whew lmao

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What’s funny though is I reckon that most of the stream’s active chatters have a majority of our emotes memorized. Pretty sure I do

eager jungle Oct 12, 2023, 3:06 AM

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the way I see it, you have 1000 slots so that you CAN have multiple sets active at once

knotty pawn Oct 12, 2023, 3:06 AM

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LMAO yeah that’s a very reasonable thought

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I’m looking now just out of morbid curiosity— we have a lot of pride emotes, most of the “buh guh zuh” cats, a BUNCH of other cat emotes, most of the Happ style emotes…