#I can't into Twitter I think, all I see
ember kite
np!
there's basically an army of folks (not that particular person because they acknowledge the cache) who think it's possible to download a dozen packages in tens of milliseconds
sweet iris
Yeah, tell me about it...
I mean, it's just wild how people sometimes consider only one layer (language in this case) in multi-layered systems...
dire atlas
scrolling up does nothing for me 😔
uncut cape
I can't scroll up either. Maybe they want you to have an account to be able to do that. Which I won't get because the platform owner uses the platform to supports fascists.
dire atlas
maybe there's still a few Nitter instances around that work
with a warm cache you still have to wait for Python to import everything - python -m pip -h takes 500 ms on my aging MacBook, uv takes just 30
Python's start-up time is atrocious
the difference is felt, it's perceived
even if it might not be substantial
ember kite
it's not exactly Python startup time
Hatch takes about 100 ms to function because of my ubiquitous use of lazy imports
evidently pip imports the world
dire atlas
it'd have to import the world to install anything anyway
you might not be paying the cost upfront but you are paying it eventually
it looks like the world is mostly just requests, certifi, tenacity, rich, and packaging
and this is an unrelated Python CLI of mine
simply importing asyncio adds 100 ms to start-up time
it's a problem
ember kite
oh for sure it's a problem but I meant in your example even showing the help text was 500 ms
there is actually an effort going on in the standard library to reduce import times
@split moth is that being tracked officially anywhere?
dire atlas
from what I've seen that effort is mostly limited to the interpreter and stdlib
split moth
dire atlas
oh for sure it's a problem but I meant in your example even showing the help tex...
don't feel like we should pin the blame on pip's devs either way - I understand not wanting to worry about where or when things are imported. I'm not happy I've got to roll my own lazy importer for my package or that I keep having to go back and check that I didn't import anything eagerly by accident I wasn't meant to
it's a bit of a shame the lazy import PEP was rejected
ember kite
yeah makes me sad