🧠｜serious-chat

[tender vessel]

If someone, sorry to say, seriously insults your mom. Would you be okay with that?

[lament forge]

I wouldn't burn a quran tho , why would I give 2 shits about that , but if someone burns one , I don't see a problem , just continue your life , it's just book womp womp

[flint dove]

it's two different topics

the west is greatly involved in wars in the Middle Eastern

at the same time Muslims have gotten weaker.

it's the reality. China took land from the Muslims too. No one can come and save them atm (they think)

[lament forge]

what an absurd comparison , a human being to a book

[flint dove]

I want to repost

"I think that's only a theory and not realestic.

the real life is different. Hate speech matters greatly in a society and it can cause deadly riots.

hate speech against muslims by the monke fueled the genocide of Muslims in Myanmar.

Muslims get killed over the accusation of eating beef in India.

Reality can different than our theories"

it's about someone elses previous text

[slender coral]

Isn't essentially disrespecting a group deemed hate speech?
No it is not. Hate speech are forms of speech that encourage violence against a group like using slurs describing them, referring to them as "not humans", and stuff like that. Not respecting a group is very different than hate, I don't respect the Muslim community but I wouldn't ever commit a crime against a Muslim person.

[crude spruce]

Its what the quran "the book " represent

[lament forge]

lol

[crude spruce]

If you say to someone " i dont respect you or your community or your religious beliefs" that obviously hate speach my friend

[lament forge]

I agree

[slender coral]

I respect the individuals depending on how they engage with me, but the unit of the community is something I tend to not respect because it has many problems. How do you define hate speech?

[crude spruce]

That an insult , its alone a crime that the law punish you for

[tender vessel]

How valuable to you the one being disrespected is the point.
If you truly love your mother, you wouldn't accept her being insulted. Similarly, to us Muslims, we genuinely despise those who ridicule, discredit, or disrespect either Islam, Muslims, Allah, the prophet (PBUH), the prophet's companions, the scholars etc... Due to the genuine admiration we hold to them.

It's really frustrating that I have to explain why wickedness is wrong.

[lament forge]

in short terms , everything bothers you

[flint dove]

I'm sorry but false information can make more people like Christchurch attack

[lament forge]

🥶

[crude spruce]

Tthe community is just a bunch of individuals, and every one has a community and people who had the same point of views and defend the same belives, even you , theres a community of peopel who share the same ideas as you .

[lament forge]

yeah , we wouldn't cry if someone burns a book

[slender coral]

I like that you brought that up. Of course no one would tolerate getting their mother insulted, but think about this for a second. Is your relationship with god exclusive to you just like how your relationship with your mother is? Islam is an ideology that's affecting the lives of bilions of people around the world, those who believe and those who do not believe. What you have here, if we go along the mother analogy, is a mother working in politics where suspiciouns of corruption and unfairness that affect people's lives often arise. Here, it's very natural to see many people disrespect this woman in society, should we punish everyone who would disrespect a politician?
You may claim that Islam is innocent from all accusations against it, but even if we assume you are right that wouldn't change that religion just like politics is naturally a highly controversial and polarizing topic, and insisting to punish anyone who would ridicule your beliefs would be denying this reality.

[lament forge]

based

[slender coral]

Are you Arab?

[tender vessel]

In short terms, disrespect is not okay. Don't cause the problem and play the victim.

With that being said, I no longer get offended by those comments. I kind of learned how to completely disregard worthless individuals.
I'd still respond harshly to those who're being disrespectful if I feel like it. It's my right whether anyone likes it or not, honestly.

[lament forge]

I'm not arab

[slender coral]

Let's say that someone burnt the humanist manifesto, I wouldn't call for them to be punished.

[flint dove]

People feel hurt when a religious book is burned because it represents their faith, identity, and deeply held beliefs. For many, sacred texts are more than just books—they symbolize divine guidance and are central to their spiritual and cultural life. Burning them is seen as an act of disrespect, hatred, or provocation, which can lead to emotional pain, outrage, and even social unrest.

[mystic bay]

Does Islam--and especially the Quran--dictate any particular political philosophy or system of government?

[lament forge]

"don't play the victim"
~cries for a book

[lament forge]

If you just didn't care about someone doing that , it would be so much easier

[slender coral]

Quran doesn't. Forms of government inspired by Islam (Sunni Islam particularly) come from narratives about Mohamed and his companions lives and how they governed the Muslim community. Idk how it works for other sects.

[flint dove]

But in reality people do care.

Some logics don't work in reality.

[manic juniper]

It's not difficult to avoid killing someone

[slender coral]

@tender vessel I hope you respond to this.

[lament forge]

I already answered but , no... I'm not , an arab friend gave it to me so I'm using it

[lament forge]

this ^

[slender coral]

Doesn't talk about details of governance.

Most Sharia laws come from Hadiths about Mohamed and the sa7abah

[flint dove]

We follow a very detailed process about making laws based on Quran and Sunnah.

i forgot what the process is called in Arabic

[slender coral]

Fiqh?

[crude spruce]

So you are admitting that yourself has a community but rather you deem that community are full of problems , plus its your personal opinion that he shouldn't be punished but not the community opinion

[manic juniper]

If the community's opinion is killing someone over the humanist manifesto, that's a pretty shit opinion to be fair

[slender coral]

Or Ijtihad

[lament forge]

they ignored that lol , can't answer it seems

[manic juniper]

No, he's typing a wall of text. Wait and see

[lament forge]

oop

alr let's wait

[manic juniper]

When I was little I wanted to punish someone for killing baby snakes, all I did was blowing up his scooter's muffler. You could do that instead of killing just an idea

[flint dove]

Anyway,

I was talking about looking for questions about Isiam on the web.

A discussion can go to the wrong way.

from a very nice discussion we are actually starting to blame Muslims by putting forth some events and trying to question how that is right.

about the questions that's coming about Islam, now, you can search them online and easily find answers about them. Instead of debating general Muslims over the questions and disagreeing with each other

[crude spruce]

So its the community problem you say , not the idea that goes aroud it . And that's exactly what im trying to prove

[manic juniper]

Depends on the idea, I'd say that the Nazi ideology and Nazi communities suck

If your ideology tells to avenge through violent methods then yeah that's pretty bad I'd say

[flint dove]

if your question is about the laws the isiamic court has for blasphemy then you can look them up.

You can get a better answer from the scholars and talk to them.

i previously told you to not invite general Muslims in a normal discussion and asking questions that scholars have already answered.

If you are really open to learning then ask the scholars who can answer you better.

but I see you are giving him a challenge like (answer me if you can)

even if he can't answer, a scholar can.

[slender coral]

Hey we actually had a good exchange of opinions here, a discussion is good as long as it doesn't evolve to an exchange of insults.

[crude spruce]

Yeah , and @slender coral here is trying to say that islam is the bad idea

[manic juniper]

Why not

[flint dove]

When you try to prove someone wrong it's not a discussion anymore but its a debate.

I still suggest ask online the question about Blasphemy

[slender coral]

Brother I know the answers scholars give. Challenging people in dialogue isn't a bad thing, and honestly I'm scared of approaching a scholar about this because they tend to be disrespectful, hateful, and close-minded.

[crude spruce]

What you know abour islam ?

[manic juniper]

Not much

[flint dove]

I think you're generalizing scholars.

in fact I've only seen scholars approach the questions happily.

also, your question was already asked and already answered.

[slender coral]

They do this with questions that aren't sensitive and approached in a way that make you seem like you just want to stick more to Islam. Other than that, no.

Idk where you are from but doubting is heavily stigmatized in the middle east.

[manic juniper]

Being an atheist in Pohjanmaa sucks

[slender coral]

Why?

[lament forge]

why

[manic juniper]

It's full of fundamentalists that accuse you of being satanic or worse

[slender coral]

You live there?

[lament forge]

damn

[manic juniper]

I used to

I lived in Pohjois-Pohjanmaa which is the worst part of it

[slender coral]

Is your family fundamentalist?

[manic juniper]

Nope, luckily both of them are immigrants from different places

[lament forge]

ouu I see

[slender coral]

Man being a child of a fundamentalist family sucks dicks and balls

[flint dove]

I really can't agree with that. maybe you had a bad experience.

anyway your questions are already available you can look them up without interacting with a scholar

[lament forge]

all my family is atheist

[slender coral]

Idk why fundamentalists love being abusive. It's just a universial thing that isn't tied to a specific religion.

[manic juniper]

I had a friend whose family slowly turned into a fundamentalist one and he was sucked into it too, until he was the only one that got out of it and now he doesn't have much going on with his parents

[flint dove]

where is that

[slender coral]

Fucking lucky

[manic juniper]

Northern Finland

[slender coral]

Finland

[mystic bay]

My parents are not religious but I don't know if they would call themselves atheists

[lament forge]

I guess

[flint dove]

cold place

[slender coral]

Yes brother I know

[slender coral]

Why you aren't sure?

[manic juniper]

No exceptions?

[slender coral]

Better than everyone you know being Muslim

[lament forge]

lol almost everyone here is religious

[lament forge]

lol I didn't mean that

[manic juniper]

My country is very secular and not very religious yet I was unlucky enough to be born very North where almost no one lives, but not North enough to live where there aren't many religious fundamentalists

[lament forge]

my best friend is muslim

[slender coral]

It depends on what type of Muslim we talk about, and where.

But I believe most aren't fun to be around

[manic juniper]

My neighbours in the city were Muslims

Only one family

[lament forge]

he's so chill , and we don't really care about eachother religious believes

[slender coral]

Muslims in the west tend to be very open-minded. They usually are like that because the ones who are close-minded usually don't leave Muslim majority countries.

[manic juniper]

One of the few atheists I knew was a staunch atheist but he believed in Satan (yes, Satan, but not God) and other evil things

I don't know how that ever worked out for him but it was angering at times

[slender coral]

That's not an atheist though if they believe in Satan.

[manic juniper]

We once broke into an abandoned house and I found a book about rhabdomancy and other paranormal phenomena, he insisted to have the book so I just gave it to him. Only to find out that his mum made him throw the book away because she convinced him on it being satanic... Couldn't he ask me before doing that

[manic juniper]

Perhaps lmao but we truly need a new term for this one, he was no monotheist or polytheist for sure

Monodemonist?

[slender coral]

Isn't the word for that Satanist?

[manic juniper]

Religious Satanists believe in god I think

Maybe a small minority of them doesn't but how do they justify the entire lore going on

[slender coral]

How can you believe in Satan without believing in god?

[manic juniper]

No fucking idea

[tender vessel]

There are several problems with your passage.

First, you're conflating criticism with insult. While you can definitely criticize Islam if you observe an error about it, you should expect a counter-criticism that fits the level of harshness depending on how you approach criticizing it.

Second, religion and politics aren't quite analogous. Politics inherently invites controversy because it involves competing interests, while religion is deeply personal and sacred to its followers.
While religion also may involve interests, it doesn't necessarily affect other people's interests in a negative sense.

Third, your argument seems to be "insult and ridicule Islam and Muslims. Play the victim when Muslims harshly respond". It's just a matter of responding in kind.
If someone would to insult a person you admire, it's very understandable that your response wouldn't be easy.

Finally, with all due respect, but your standard isn't binding to us Muslims.
We aren't very tolerant to disrespect, and we generally are not demanding anything beyond our rights. So, I'd suggest people don't disrespect Islam or Muslims if they don't like our response to that, honestly.

[lament forge]

wow

[manic juniper]

Told you

[lament forge]

here it is

[lament forge]

yes haha

[slender coral]

Because non religious Satanists are people who consider Satan just a symbol rathar than an entity that actually exist.

[lament forge]

I ain't reading allat tho , ur turn

[slender coral]

Well, it's time for me to write a book in response to that message.

[tender vessel]

I could never imagine that I'd have to explain basic common sense like that one day.

[waxen shale]

Ya know some Muslim depict satan as carnal desire. They think they don't really exist

[tender vessel]

Anyways, this discussion is beginning to be a circular back and forth, so, I'm disengaging.

[waxen shale]

You know which country has the most muslim majority ?

[crude spruce]

Ya youssef

[lament forge]

Indonesia I think

[waxen shale]

https://youtube.com/shorts/HSVYEAmy8Ic?si=-Jiu66dOXUUrlWYN

Exactly

[lament forge]

nice

[slender coral]

Religion and politics aren't quite analogous. Politics inherently invites controversy because it involves competing interests, while religion is deeply personal and sacred to its followers.
While religion also may involve interests, it doesn't necessarily affect other people's interests in a negative sense.
This is wrong on so many levels. No religions do heavily affect people. They are the reason why some secular countries made essential vaccinations a choice as some religious groups oppose them, that's an example. For Islam things are more obvious. In the name of Islam we had many terrorist groups, many authoritarian states, and many crimes against people just like the one we talked about earlier, the killing of the man who burnt the Quran. Again, you can argue that they don't represent Islam all you want but that wouldn't change that religious beliefs motivate many people and entities to do things against the interests and beliefs of many other people.
While religion is distinct from politics, it's strongly tied to it and we see this all the time in discussions about democracy, lgbt rights, women's rights, child rights, etc...

Third, your argument seems to be "insult and ridicule Islam and Muslims. Play the victim when Muslims harshly respond". It's just a matter of responding in kind.
If someone would to insult a person you admire, it's very understandable that your response wouldn't be easy.
It's really not normal to kill someone for insulting you, I wouldn't do that. And it is worse if you consider that an insult directed at your beliefs deserves punishment by death, that's just snowflake behavior and attitude.

Finally, with all due respect, but your standard isn't binding to us Muslims.
They are. You live in a world where beliefs constantly clash with one another, if you can't take that just immigrate from earth to another planet or something and live their by yourselves.

[lament forge]

I feel the need to read allat

[slender coral]

That's a small minority if it does exist. I don't think this is mainstream belief.

[slender coral]

🫂

[slender coral]

Indonesia?

You profile is confusing. You have a woman in your banner and a femboy as pfp.

[lament forge]

beautiful

[serene hemlock]

Potatoes are tastie

[slender coral]

That's no controversial statement

[lament forge]

[slender coral]

Coding while arguing religion feels like getting fucked without lube.

[odd gulch]

What's going on guys

What are guys talking about

[slender coral]

Is it ok to insult religious beliefs or not

[serene hemlock]

No it's bad the only right think to do is debate about them in a respectful way letting or differences appart

[slender coral]

You can go through this and see why I think it's fine
#🧠｜serious-chat message
#🧠｜serious-chat message
#🧠｜serious-chat message
#🧠｜serious-chat message

[crude spruce]

Its simple do you agree with what gri said or not

[slender coral]

Ik. Just shared that in case they would like to see a discussion about it.

[serene hemlock]

I have read and I still chose to stand my original opinion now I want to know yours

[crude spruce]

Flare is cooking hhh

[slender coral]

Flare is probably undercooking but let's see

[crude spruce]

Shouldn't you answer @serene hemlock question first?

[slender coral]

Which one?

[serene hemlock]

Wait first let me ear your atgument

[crude spruce]

Gri wants to hear your opinion

[slender coral]

Oh, I did link my messages here. @serene hemlock
#🧠｜serious-chat message

[crude spruce]

But@serene hemlock already confirmed that read the argument

And still want to hear your testimony

[serene hemlock]

And still I can't find why you think retaliating was the best option

[slender coral]

You are talking to who my guy I'm confused 😭😭😭

[serene hemlock]

Take your time I don't want a raw argument

[slender coral]

@crude spruce where are you from?

[serene hemlock]

And I'm talking to you@slender coral

[slender coral]

I'm guessing that you are an Arab

[serene hemlock]

Nah I'm not I'm Portuguese

[slender coral]

I never said that retaliating is justifiable, and I already explained my position in lengthy messages that I linked. I'm not going to explain my views again, sorry.

[crude spruce]

Is this question relativ to our discussion?

[tender vessel]

In the name of Islam we had many terrorist groups, many authoritarian states, and many crimes against people
Fun fact: did you know the most heinous and atrocious massacres in history are mostly perpetrated by atheists or non-affiliated individuals.
I could say atheism promotes violence, savagery, and barbarity based on that fact, does that mean it is the case? We had people justifying their wrongdoings via all types of ideologies and positions, that doesn't mean they are truly reflective or representative of them.

While religion is distinct from politics, it's strongly tied to it and we see this all the time in discussions about democracy, lgbt rights, women's rights, child rights, etc...
It's not necessarily tied to it unless a country is essentially Islamic. If I live in a country that promotes LGBTQ, how am I going to politically affect those communities as a Muslim? That doesn't make sense.

It's really not normal to kill someone for insulting you, I wouldn't do that. And it is worse if you consider that an insult directed at your beliefs deserves punishment by death, that's just snowflake behavior and attitude.
Although my reaction to his death wouldn't be negative (sadness or grief), I've never promoted or encouraged the killing of someone burning the Qur'an. The punishment is completely up to the Islamic court if he is held accountable for such a heinous crime.
I just pointed out the flaws in your judgement and how you're the one who's justifying his action of disrespecting and provoking Muslims via burning the Qur'an. Additionally, I've already mentioned how he endorsed the genocide and massacres committed against a group of Muslim majority, so, even if I'm a non-Muslim, I'd probably be glad that has been punished.

[tender vessel]

They are. You live in a world where beliefs constantly clash with one another, if you can't take that just immigrate from earth to another planet or something and live their by yourselves.
No, it isn't. I can easily not abide by your standard while still live on the same planet perfectly fine. Your standard is not universally binding and nobody is obligated to abide by it.

[slender coral]

It isn't

[serene hemlock]

I understand that they hurted you but that is no reason to get that agressive

I want a discussion not a rap batlle

[crude spruce]

I will make it easier for you are you with or with not insulting religion beliefs. Yes or no

[serene hemlock]

take your time I'm not against you I'm just wearing your side if the story

Earring*

[crude spruce]

She trying to avoid the conversation

@slender coral are you cooking or undercooking?

[serene hemlock]

Don't make this worst

@crude spruce I'm talking to you

[slender coral]

Fun fact: did you know the most heinous and atrocious massacres in history are mostly perpetrated by atheists or non-affiliated individuals.
I could say atheism promotes violence, savagery, and barbarity based on that fact, does that mean it is the case? We had people justifying their wrongdoings via all types of ideologies and positions, that doesn't mean they are truly reflective or representative of them.
Do you realize what we are talking about? We aren't talking about whether Islam evil or not, we are talking about freedom of speech. You are wrong and I believe you are wrong but I believe you have the right to express this opinion as long as you don't harm people.

It's not necessarily tied to it unless a country is essentially Islamic. If I live in a country that promotes LGBTQ, how am I going to politically affect those communities as a Muslim? That doesn't make sense.
Even in secular countries religion is tied to politics. Discussions around politics in the US for example often involve Christianity. And yes as a Muslim even in a secular country you could affect people with your views
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/15/us/hamtramck-michigan-ban-pride-flags-public-property/index.html

The punishment is completely up to the Islamic court if he is held accountable for such a heinous crime.
Why do you consider it heinous? That's what the discussion has been about.

so, even if I'm a non-Muslim, I'd probably be glad that has been punished.
That wasn't the reason he was killed, and it has never been the reason why people like him got assassinated or got assassination attempts.

[crude spruce]

We're just discussing

[slender coral]

Perfectly fine? Well if you consider having a rep for being a group of terrorists and tyrants as perfectly fine, Idk what to say to you honestly. Your bad reputation is a result of similar attitudes and actions, not some grand conspiracy against you.

[serene hemlock]

So what do you want?
Freedom of speech.Or freedom of religion

[slender coral]

Both

[serene hemlock]

Ok I want them both too

What I didn't understand is the way you were speaking about it

[crude spruce]

Youve said that you don't resepect islam , you said that its okay to burn the quran , the community of the islamic world is the root of the problem , your obviously islamophobic , and your entire arguments were based on that

[slender coral]

Man, years ago when someone says this word I used to picture that criminal who killed people in a mosque, but now this word is meaningless.

[crude spruce]

See like i said , its all about islam from the beginning

[serene hemlock]

You are taking this wrong

[narrow haven]

Off topic but how do you report someone on the server?

[slender coral]

You aren't terrorists, I didn't say that.

[narrow haven]

Like opening a ticket to talk to a mod or sot

[crude spruce]

You just said that

[slender coral]

WHERE?

Quote me

[serene hemlock]

he didn't mean that

[slender coral]

Yea

[compact halo]

@narrow haven look in #report-help

[slender coral]

Let me clarify, my point is that if those attitudes and actions are common in a community it's natural for it to be percieved by other poeple in that way.

[serene hemlock]

Also kinda out off topic but we where calling you she the whole time

[slender coral]

Oh lol

I'm a dude

[crude spruce]

Your a dude ???!

[slender coral]

Yes

[crude spruce]

Your pic is confusing

[slender coral]

I just like the character

[crude spruce]

Dont you think?

[serene hemlock]

Also I changed my pic in the middle of the chat

[crude spruce]

Gri are you a dude too ?

[slender coral]

Nah. Get used to it buddy, most people on the internet who use girly pics are men. It depends on what it is tho, I think people with female k-pop stars tend to be women.

[serene hemlock]

Yeah

[torpid dirge]

Hi what's serious matter going on

[slender coral]

But anime girls pfps are usually men thing

[slender coral]

#🧠｜serious-chat message

[serene hemlock]

Religion but changed the topic

[slender coral]

Talking about free speech and insulting religious beliefs

[serene hemlock]

Flare just talk now

[crude spruce]

Flare easy on the keyboard

[slender coral]

It's 1 am where I live so I'll go to sleep now. I'll respond to the Russian novel that Flare is writing later, good night y'all.

[torpid dirge]

Let's not get into that topic , i have a question:+ who's ur favourite atheist? In the World?

[manic juniper]

Goodnight

[slender coral]

For me it's Kosay Betar. He is a Syrian atheist youtuber.

He is Syrians and Syrians are hot 🔥

That's enough reason to like the guy

[serene hemlock]

Is Neil deGrasse Tyson atheist?

[slender coral]

He is

[torpid dirge]

There's more Syrian atheist like him

[serene hemlock]

Bye

[torpid dirge]

As well

[slender coral]

I just know him. Who else are there?

[serene hemlock]

Then that is my favourite atheist

Him*

[slender coral]

Mhm

[torpid dirge]

I don't know but there's women named rena Ahmad a Syrian atheist ⚛️

[serene hemlock]

Because he explains a thing that I like in a way that I like

[crude spruce]

So you all atheist ?!

[slender coral]

Send her channel's link

[serene hemlock]

Nah I'm christhian

[torpid dirge]

No I'm not and I'm proud of myself for having it

[crude spruce]

Having what ?

[torpid dirge]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC225WVxpm82yrP6GL_MdO3A

[torpid dirge]

Having faithful with one god .....

[serene hemlock]

Sorry but I gotta do this... Arguments pls🫴?

[crude spruce]

Flare please man just send the fucking the message

[crude spruce]

Ididt understand what favorite astheist mean ?

[torpid dirge]

I had just ask

Question

[tender vessel]

Do you realize what we are talking about? We aren't talking about whether Islam evil or not, we are talking about freedom of speech. You are wrong and I believe you are wrong but I believe you have the right to express this opinion as long as you don't harm people.
"For Islam things are more obvious. In the name of Islam we had many terrorist groups".
No. Your statements aren't discussing freedom of speech.

Even in secular countries religion is tied to politics. Discussions around politics in the US for example often involve Christianity. And yes as a Muslim even in a secular country you could affect people with your views
The US is of a Christian background. Additionally, a secular state is not secular if it's ruling by a specific religion.
You've cited an article stating the LGBTQ pride flag has been banned by a whole city (the majority). If the majority doesn't like the LGBTQ agenda being imposed on them and their children, then violating that would be a position or ideology negatively affecting other people!! Does that mean those people are entitled of insulting individuals who affiliate to the LGBTQ?

Why do you consider it heinous? That's what the discussion has been about.
Simple. Because it's a disrespect to Islam, Muslims, and Allah.

That wasn't the reason he was killed, and it has never been the reason why people like him got assassinated or got assassination attempts.
Irrelevant.

Perfectly fine? Well if you consider having a rep for being a group of terrorists and tyrants as perfectly fine
So, wearing Hijab, for example, since it's not abiding by your standard, is an act of terrorism and tyranny!?! Lol. That is an extreme view in and of itself.

Honestly, that's double standard. You don't like Muslims negatively affecting others' lives, although it rarely ever happens if the individual is not at fault, but you're perfectly fine with negatively affecting Muslims. Amazing.

[serene hemlock]

Mucho texto

[torpid dirge]

Like me

[torpid dirge]

Bruhh calm down

[serene hemlock]

Nah I'm going to #🧊｜chill-chat

[tender vessel]

Oh. I'm actually very calm.
I hope my message doesn't come across as aggressive or anything.

Okay. 👍

[torpid dirge]

No I didn't mean that way but who person r u answering might be gone though..

[crude spruce]

@tender vessel what do you do for a living ?

[serene hemlock]

Imagine if ninja got a low taper fade😭😍😭😭😭😍😍😍😍😍😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎

[torpid dirge]

Debate 😂

[crude spruce]

Very serious topic to chat about

[serene hemlock]

1st to send nitro gets a hug

[tender vessel]

Alright. Responding to his/her reply on a previous message of mine. I don't know why is their presence relevant though. 😂

[torpid dirge]

Let's shove it off, tell me what do you do for living?

[tender vessel]

Web and mobile development. I'm also a Linux enthusiast. 😁
I use Arch by the way. 🙃 😂

[torpid dirge]

💪💪

[crude spruce]

Do you work for a company or just solo dev ?

[serene hemlock]

Do you have any social media?

[torpid dirge]

Should've ask him mobile no and address, bank balance

[serene hemlock]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[torpid dirge]

@serene hemlock what do you do for living tho ? 😂

[serene hemlock]

Get good grades I guess?

[torpid dirge]

In school or clg ?

[serene hemlock]

School

And no I am not studying

[torpid dirge]

So what grade r u talking about?

[crude spruce]

Flare the fuck you writing bro ?

[serene hemlock]

Confidential

[torpid dirge]

Whole company origination with explanation

[tender vessel]

I do both, besides building my own startup company. We're currently studying the market and conducting a feasibility study for a SaaS project we're planning to develop. Unfortunately, I can't mention what the app is going to be about, but I'll proclaim it once it's launched, InShaAllah.

[serene hemlock]

How can I publish papers?

[crude spruce]

What do you mean by papers

[manic juniper]

About

[serene hemlock]

Space

[manic juniper]

Build a rocket

[serene hemlock]

Information

[torpid dirge]

What is feasibility study ?

[serene hemlock]

No

[serene hemlock]

More like a deep search in Europa in look for life

[torpid dirge]

I had ask, not he

😭

[tender vessel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feasibility_study

[tender vessel]

Not really. I'm just tired, currently.
It's been a long day. Also, this chat is supposed to be dedicated for seriousness, isn't it? 😂

[crude spruce]

Guys , does anyone know the purpose of lunching a discord server and investing time on it ?

[manic juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/beetle-food-gif-12955551

[manic juniper]

Pyramidal scheme

[crude spruce]

For example??

[manic juniper]

Stealing PSN accounts

Discord didn't exist when I used to

[waxen shale]

Yeah and its not close to what you think their ideology is. You could only imagine why the place with majority of muslim found harmony with eachother.

[crude spruce]

Bro you still there ?!

Its like an hour a go ?!

[manic juniper]

Didn't they genocide Papuans there

And they are renting West Papua to foreign multinationals to this day

[waxen shale]

No

[waxen shale]

And no

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66
Lol the list of groups targeted is pretty fucking big too

[waxen shale]

What does it add to what im saying?

[manic juniper]

Yes, what's funny is that they are renting it to a Dutch multinational, the very country that used to colonise them... Through the largest multinational to ever exist

[waxen shale]

You don't know what you talking about lady

[manic juniper]

Because you said that it's a peaceful country, it really isn't, they are occupying Papua to this day

[manic juniper]

Yes, an Indonesian on here told me about the multinational renting part, on this very channel

[waxen shale]

Do you even know the history of the mass killing?

Yes or no?

You didn't know for sure

[manic juniper]

I know why lol

Suharto was a fucking monster

[waxen shale]

Yeah just found the fact eh , cuz its had to do with Western interference. US of A send their best snipers to kill communist party? And spewing rumours on religious factions?

[manic juniper]

Yes, because they hate communism

[waxen shale]

Well until we get rid of US interference. It will be peaceful for sure. They even own the biggest mine in Papua. Australia also playing a role for papua to be independent. Western interference once again

[manic juniper]

Who is occupying Papua again? Lol

[waxen shale]

What i been saying is about the religious ideology that different from what you think it is... Its nothing to do with these politcal shit

[manic juniper]

It's all the West's fault but who is cooperating with USA to enable all of that?

If I ask for a gun to kill my enemies and they give me a tank, who is to blame?

[manic juniper]

I'm saying that there is no peace there, unlike what you tried to claim

[waxen shale]

Wha- what are you saying? The US want to get rid of Communist in our land. Its not like we wake up and decide to hate communism?

[indigo trout]

This is my third server seeing a serious-related chat talk about politics. what is the point of wasting your time talking about things you can't change?

[waxen shale]

Im talking about the current day of religious ideology. Why are you so biased on atheism ?

[manic juniper]

But Suharto did too

Isn't Suharto Indonesian? I didn't know he was American too

[waxen shale]

Omg stop.... You don't know shit

[manic juniper]

I didn't say anything about atheism or religion

Why are you obsessed with those

[indigo trout]

oh shit that's weird asf from their part, why did they do it?

why didn't they do it to lgbtq communities?

[manic juniper]

Alright I guess he was innocent, he was forced at gunpoint to do a genocide

[waxen shale]

You know how much gold he makes out of the blue. Its like the german joke of nazi gold..

[waxen shale]

Theres declassified CIA document about the USA interference with the mass killing.

[manic juniper]

Did I deny US involvement? What's even the point

[indigo trout]

What. When did you see that?

[manic juniper]

I said:

1. It's not a peaceful place
2. A genocide happened
3. They are still occupying indigenous land
4. Suharto was Indonesian

[waxen shale]

You were implying that.. sueharto was part of Indonesia that also wanna do the mass killing

He was bribed so hard. The current precideny still have hes money

[waxen shale]

You can look it up easily bozo. Theres a you tube video on it too..

You just spewing shit out of the blue

[indigo trout]

So I don't get what's going on, did USA commit mass genocide or what

[indigo trout]

I am just bored prick

Or are y'all talking about old stuff

[waxen shale]

Yess he wanna get rid of communism in that era

[waxen shale]

Old stuff yessss

[indigo trout]

i genuinely read that as area

i am so sleepy

:<

[waxen shale]

Nah don't worry bruv

[waxen shale]

You get paid doing this ?

Just like talking stuff with the most biased perspective, with a history that you just read 10 second ago?

[manic juniper]

No, why are you dying so hard to defend a dictator

[manic juniper]

I knew about it already, as I said I spoke to a more informed Indonesian on here before

[waxen shale]

Okay i didn't defend him. Why would i defend him ?

[manic juniper]

But you seem upset by this, you're trying to shift the blame solely on foreign interference

[waxen shale]

Well it just because..the fact that foreign interference was one of the culprit that conspire the mass killing

[manic juniper]

https://www.downtoearth-indonesia.org/story/multinational-corporations-lining-profit-west-papuas-resources
https://www.downtoearth-indonesia.org/story/west-papua-independence-and-exploitation
https://newint.org/features/2017/05/01/sacrifice-zone-west-papuan-independence-struggle#fn7
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/pais/research/ierg/specialisms/internationaldevelopment/westpapua/assessment_report_international_version_final.pdf
https://awasmifee.potager.org/uploads/2015/04/atlas-sawit-en.pdf
This was shared by your fellow countrywoman

Again if I explicitly ask for a gun to kill someone and they grant me one, who is at fault?

[waxen shale]

Im not even talking about west Papua.. i mean the PKI mass killing. I mean you should know what i mean when you start discussing about sueharto right? They guy is dead. It has nothing to do with Papua

[warped sleet]

hello

[surreal zealot]

hello

[spice bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-chat-dead-chat-skeleton-gif-25954239

[manic juniper]

I'm talking about both

[waxen shale]

Well its different. Theres no commies in papua

[waxen shale]

That article i was read is so biased to leftist agenda

[manic juniper]

My friend is leftist so

She's also Indonesian and doesn't really disagree with it

I also spoke to another Indonesian about this, she didn't like the current occupation of Papua either

[waxen shale]

Opm was separatist movement.

They kidnap people including the foreigners

https://www.tempo.co/hukum/tni-bantah-lakukan-operasi-militer-di-nduga-untuk-bebaskan-pilot-susi-air-yang-disandera-opm-7832

Were not "occupied" the land.. like the case of Palestine and Israel. We never invade anyone.

[manic juniper]

There is an armed branch but it isn't the only one

[manic juniper]

It's pretty much the same situation, but it's not the only country doing this anyway. Morocco is doing the same in Western Sahara

The main difference is that Indonesia isn't bombing Papuans, otherwise the multinationals wouldn't be able to extract resources there

Israel bombs Palestine because no one would work there anyway

Morocco already controls the best part of Western Sahara while the rest has a sand wall and landmines

[waxen shale]

No its not why you said the same? Theres no same thing as Zionists entity in papua. They were separating themselves in rebellion of us, and theres also Papuan who prefers the modernity

They got killed by the opm too these papuans

[manic juniper]

Because Indonesia isn't Jewish, that's what Zionist means. It's about a State for Jews

It's still occupying West Papua

[manic juniper]

Yes, happens to Palestinians too, some are executed by Hamas

[waxen shale]

Yeah but we doesn't move there and just instantly claim the land is ours because of our ancestry lives there. Again they were a separatists movement

[manic juniper]

Unfortunately that's what happens when you mistreat and oppress a group, they end up joining questionable and violent organisations

[manic juniper]

Isn't this what you're doing right now tho? You're saying they want to separate from the rest Indonesia, but isn't that normal? They weren't part of it

[waxen shale]

Ofc if they wanna rebell against our policies. They will have consequences they were terrorists

[manic juniper]

Most of them seem to be peaceful protesters

The militant branch isn't even centrally organised

[waxen shale]

Why do you even comparing like Palestinian?

[waxen shale]

What ? No!

[manic juniper]

Because you said that even Papuans oppress other Papuans, I compared it to the situation in Palestine with Hamas

[waxen shale]

Theres some papuans that are part of Indonesia and proud of it too. They choose to be part of us not by force. They have economical future. And there's these opm kill these papuans because they think its a spy. But they just a regular civilian

Papua is not just west papua

[manic juniper]

Yes, there are Palestinians that are proud of being part of Israel as well, they call themselves Israeli Arabs

[manic juniper]

I know, it's a whole country with a nice flag

I'm obviously referring to those in Indonesia

[waxen shale]

Okay just... Nah. Im out

At this point you probably just joking

[manic juniper]

You seem like someone that cannot talk about anything

Or perhaps too nationalistic

An idealist?

[waxen shale]

Papua is not A race okay.. its a place I'm just mind boggled by what you just said. Like its so weird...

[manic juniper]

Arab isn't a race either

I don't think that races exist so what's even your point

[waxen shale]

Nah its another chain of ancestry that been missing. Another chain found go next to another

[manic juniper]

?

[formal pilot]

[waxen shale]

Is arab a place?

[manic juniper]

Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Arab Republic of Egypt

Arab peninsula, Arab Gulf (I prefer calling it the Persian Gulf tho)

[waxen shale]

Jokes on you papua is actually an island

[manic juniper]

Papuan isn't a race or ethnicity either, just like Indonesian, they speak thousands of different languages and have different traditions

[manic juniper]

So?

[waxen shale]

You cant compare it to Palestine and Israeli conflict

[manic juniper]

You're the one that brought it up, perhaps don't do it next time

I said that both places are occupied

Aren't the Golan Heights and parts of West Bank occupied as well? Just like West Papua

[waxen shale]

Gaza is not occupied territory.

[manic juniper]

I didn't mention Gaza anywhere

Bro do you have visions or what
You literally did nothing but accuse me all the times so far

You accused me of criticising Islam/religions and pushing atheism, something I didn't do
You brought up Palestine and Israel
You brought up Gaza
What else?

[waxen shale]

Yeah so... They're not the same. Theres no places like gaza in papua. They were just rebels.. okay.

[formal pilot]

Golan heights was part of Syria

[manic juniper]

Because there are multinationals in West Papua, it can't be bombed like Gaza

[manic juniper]

Yes

[waxen shale]

You brought it up first...

[manic juniper]

Nope, look here

Mine simply was a reply

[formal pilot]

After the fall of the Assad regime israel reoccupied it

For defence purposes

[waxen shale]

Yes and you said this..

[manic juniper]

They were occupied even earlier, not as much as now tho. They built illegal settlements

[manic juniper]

That's to be expected after you brought it up

I've heard they are withdrawing from parts of Syria now

[formal pilot]

Yeah they're trying to colonize the whole region

[manic juniper]

If they shift demographics or are able to convince the locals to support them they'll force Syria to redraw the borders or simply accept them

[formal pilot]

Are they? I thought they were working for greater israel

[manic juniper]

Only from certain parts, I guess they don't have huge significance or don't want to overextend themselves

[waxen shale]

What?

Why do you feel the need to brought it up?

[manic juniper]

I said that it's to be expected as a reply after you just did

[waxen shale]

Okay im sorry. If this hurts your feelings

[manic juniper]

No, I just find it annoying

[waxen shale]

Is that what you wanna see me writing?

[manic juniper]

I'm not the one that is hellbent on defending my country

You can post about the bad things my country did, I will likely agree with most of them

[waxen shale]

Okay.. fine.. whatever. Im really sleepy rn

[manic juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/ratchet-clank-ratchet-and-clank-up-your-arsenal-ratchet-and-clank3-gif-18859904

[waxen shale]

I mean its not like i was hardcore nationalistic. But you brought up such sensitive topic on the table while i discuss.. about religion...

[manic juniper]

Yeah because you said that it's a peaceful country while it's built on fucked up events

[waxen shale]

It doesn't have to do with papua..

[waxen shale]

Yesss, a fucked up event. I do agree with that. But were still peaceful

[manic juniper]

It is, many people victim of that genocide belonged to different religions or were atheists
And most Papuans are Christian or animists

[waxen shale]

We formed nonaligned block. To decide to not take part on a cold war

[manic juniper]

Sukarno was aligned with the USSR, Suharto with USA

[waxen shale]

I thought its about free port and gold resources. Nobody in my country thinks it's about religion

[manic juniper]

Ask to the communists and the Chinese people that were... Oh

[waxen shale]

My god... Wow... Thats just some oversimplified facts. You don't even understand it. Just please

[waxen shale]

What?

[manic juniper]

They are dead

[waxen shale]

Oh thats was very funny

What do you mean ? The Chinese they dont take part of the papua conflict. Only with western countries they take part of

[formal pilot]

Na locals will never support them

Government might

[manic juniper]

I'm talking about the genocide under Suharto 😪

[manic juniper]

What about the Druze

[waxen shale]

Its pki mass killing. Its happens in aceh, and jakarta

Not in papua...

[manic juniper]

Yes, in case you didn't notice we were talking about your country's bad things, not just one of them

Are you slow

[waxen shale]

Okay so you got me ? Wow... Very clever

[formal pilot]

They might not identify as Muslim but they originated from shia sec, they'll never support israel

[waxen shale]

All this discussion could be avoided if you just understand what i said in the beginning. I was talking about the religious ideology. Not even the ideology of my country. So thats why i said we have peaceful religious ideology...

[formal pilot]

No religion is peaceful

It's human nature

[waxen shale]

Don't care religion is peaceful

[manic juniper]

Aren't those religions full of events about wars and battles

Or violence

[waxen shale]

No

[feral river]

Religion is just a political tool nothing else

[cloud sedge]

what r u guys talkin about bru...

[edgy elm]

Do you believe in any region?

[dense agate]

i believe in South East Asia

[formal pilot]

I believe in Southwest Asia

[feral river]

I believe in Mars

[dense agate]

freaking pagan

[feral river]

Mars is an inalienable part of PRC

[dense agate]

i see no red flag there

Mars belongs to Israel, they have endured enough

[feral river]

Actually, our robot already landed on mars

[edgy elm]

Damn😭😭😭

[feral river]

There’s a red flag in reality lmao

[edgy elm]

Religion

Stupid me

[dense agate]

damn, they should send Mao's embalmed body next, that'd be deep

[feral river]

We didn’t unlock that tech yet lol

[kind seal]

[kind seal]

Lol it's more than that.... politicians rise and fell just with the winds of religion

[slender yoke]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/617048119426678930/868214054181830656/image0-9.gif

[feral river]

Well who cares when they are still focusing on religion and political stuff we got our robot holding machine guns march around

And our authoritarian rule is super stable

That assures we will do exactly as what we have determined and will be executed to the last

Which did not have in the most western democracies

[kind seal]

I don't agree with this approach but still who cares ............I just don't like the idea of nationalism, relegion, politics.....just piece of shîtts, technology has evolved..we just don't need them anymore......you know there is endless sky up there......as humans we should chase something bigger....but who gives a fuckkkk to these stuffs

[feral river]

They exists and they are real, what you are saying is what only exists in your dream lol

And only superpowers have ability to chase something bigger

Not losers and minor puppets

[kind seal]

May be ....I have a lot to support my idea...you have a lot to counter it .......what I said is still too distant

[kind seal]

If this keeps on only minor puppets will be left to collect the ashes of superpowers

[feral river]

Not a chance, once war is break out, the first stage is they are going to die not superpowers

[kind seal]

Do you think this little planet is capable enough.........

[feral river]

Don’t think the people who live in superpowers are stupid

[ashen mortar]

Unemployed me at 3 AM

[feral river]

Even war did not break out between superpowers, we conduct much more proxy wars even we can’t count how much power we did interfere in those minor states

Some are annexed some are divided, some just be plunged into the nightmare of eternal war

That’s the reality for all the time

[kind seal]

Emotions start playing roles ones things start getting out of hands.....

And war between countries becomes war between persons in power .... even if it's superpowers

[kind seal]

Get a job for yourself

[ashen mortar]

ok boss 😎👍

[stable edge]

Hi

[humble mortar]

War is all due to oppression, suppressing freedom, pushing people into slavery, huge difference between rich and poor, rich getting justice but poor arent and so on forth

[feral river]

Not really we have a typical example of how people with the state is benefiting from war, the US

[coarse cipher]

Hello

[vestal copper]

John Cena is retired 😩

[static jasper]

J

[main bison]

yo

[thorny steeple]

Yo

[main bison]

war should be illegal

[thorny steeple]

And build the titanman square in mars and hanging mao’s portrait that’s d be very deep

[thorny steeple]

Resolution XXXXX by the U.N ban for warfare

[main bison]

huh?

[thorny steeple]

That's how you get started

[main bison]

U mean i can request UN?

[thorny steeple]

That I would not know but that is how it would look like

[slender coral]

My statements are about freedom of speech, criticizing ideologies to be specific. As a result of how many terrorist and authoritarian groups adopt Islam, we have a lot of controversies surrounding it. That's natural and it's natural for people to see it as harmful and criticize/mock it accordingly.
You haven't read the article that I included, the banning of pride flag came from the city council which entirely consists of Muslim members. The display of pride flag is not imposing an agenda on anyone, it's a form of free speech where people express their ideals not impose them, it's the Muslim city council that imposed its ideals by prohibiting people from displaying the flag. And well, Muslims are already entitled to insult the movement in the west and they do it all the time, they do more actually many of them advocate for the persecution of lgbt people.
You didn't answer my question, why do you consider disrespecting Islam, Muslims, and Allah as a heinous crime?
And why do you consider the reason Salwan was killed irrelevant? It's the main point of our discussion that killing people for merely expressing their opinions about faith is wrong and that's why Salwan got killed, because he burnt the Quran not because his position on the Palestine-Israel issue.
Having the bad reputation isn't the result of you guys wearing hijabs, it's the result of the dangerous terrorist rhetoric you have been trying to advocate for since yesterday, that killing someone or punishing them legally with death is fine if they insult your beliefs.

Where did I say anything that makes me perfectly fine with negatively affecting Muslims? I'm not defending killing them nor punishing them for their views, you are the one here who is defending the killing of a non Muslim and advocating for punishing us if we say something that hurts your fragil feelings. You are being extremely dishonest here.

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/polia-polia-twitch-polia-donut-gif-26571277

Its donut shaped

[thorny steeple]

How humans can do that, don’t care about that,No religion is peaceful it’s true that, bc religion shit involve political power,economic interests shit, see modern war religious wars like the Yugoslav, ISIS ,the lebanese civil war , i reckon the religion is a weird stuff sometimes

[feral river]

veto

https://youtube.com/shorts/JViDtBdPI3o?si=58fVHe9Ju_Xx3BX3

Lmao

My trumpie

He just bombed some terrorists today omg he’s such a savior

[crude widget]

I think we are focusing on the wrong thing. People in power are not peaceful. Religion does nothing to make such people peaceful. Instead, they use religion as a means to justify their violent goals. Religion may be peaceful, but it does nothing to pacify the violence within many people. Often, religion can fan the flames of violence, but violence is a feature of human nature, not of religion itself

[feral river]

Interest above all

[slender coral]

In many instances the absence of religion decreases violence and hate. Idk much about other religion but I'm very sure that Islam promotes violence.

[feral river]

Can peace generate a piece of land for your nation ?

I guess nah

[crude widget]

There may be correlation there, but not necessarily causation. It may be that there is absence of religion due to the peaceful nature of the people who rejected the potential presence of religion. Violent people are more prone to accept religion.

Violent people promote religions that allow violence

[slender coral]

Are you a theist?

[crude widget]

No I'm atheist

[mystic bay]

they could also be completely unrelated

it seems perfectly plausible that a human society might change in various concurrent and largely independent ways at the same time

[waxen shale]

Can you prove it ? Can you quote some references in islam that promotes violence?

[waxen shale]

If all i can give many passage and verses where you won't allowed to be violence in islam

[dapper laurel]

Islam doesn't promote violence that much, there are just people who interpret it in its most extreme vision

And a religion is not that harmful to society

[waxen shale]

Islam includes verses that discuss self-defense, warfare, and justice, particularly in historical contexts when Muslim communities were under threat. These verses are sometimes misinterpreted or taken out of context to justify violence, but Islamic teachings generally emphasize restraint, forgiveness, and the pursuit of peace whenever possible.

Many scholars highlight that Islam permits warfare only in self-defense and prohibits harming civilians, destroying nature, or excessive aggression. The vast majority of Muslims worldwide follow these peaceful principles and reject violence (chat gpt)

[shy summit]

Sadly religious beliefs are of the few ideological dogmas whos followers (for whatever reasons) are more vulnerable to violent radicalization.

Perhaps its the defined in and out groups

Perhaps its how nicely it gels with things like nationalism and more outright discriminatory dogma like homophobia or racism (only sometimes)

[mystic bay]

I think that any kind of dogmatic belief-system is likely to attract whatever violent people there are in a society (I'm not using 'dogmatic' in a pejorative sense)

[shy summit]

I like to believe that its an institutional failing not a personal one

[mystic bay]

There are also numerous psychological experiments indicating that people will tend to develop surprisingly violent tendencies if they are put in positions of authority, or if they are given licence by someone in a position of authority

[tender vessel]

We're moving in circles at this point. So, that is probably gonna be my final response.

1. We are not gonna tolerate ridiculing or mocking us or Islam, as we should. Your standard as I've mentioned repeatedly is not universally binding, especially to Muslims as we have our own standard.
2. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Just because certain groups attribute themselves to a particular religion, position, ideology etc... doesn't mean their belief is the source of their wrongdoings. H*tler wholeheartedly believed in evolution and used to justify his actions, but that doesn't mean any evolutionist is tyrannical murderer and ruthless maniac.
   Claiming that an ideology is the root of evil requires demonstrating where that ideology explicitly endorses such wrongdoing. Otherwise, responsibility for wrongdoings should rest solely on their perpetrators individually.
   To reinforce this point, consider Humanism, since it's the ideology you affiliate to. Humanism prioritizes the well-being and progress of humanity. Affiliates to it could justify eliminating individuals or groups that are deemed obstacles to that progress - whether due to their beliefs, actions, or their mere existence - by stating it's a necessary step for more enlightened, harmonious society, and since it rejects divine moral authority and accepts that morality is shaped by human reasoning and societal consensus, this wrongdoing is way more attainable than it is if they had some kind of objective source like religious people do.
3. I have explicitly answered your question on why burning the Qur'an to me is a heinous crime. I'm not obligated to provide an answer that must satisfy your own ideology.
4. I did not refer to Salwan's murder as irrelevant, it's the motive for his murder that is irrelevant to the statement you've being responding to. You can simply be glad Stalin died, for example, regardless of why and how he died.

[tender vessel]

5. I have never in my life justified killing non-Muslims just because they are non-Muslims. I have no idea where you're getting that from. In fact, I've explicitly stated killing him because he burned the Qur'an is not the right course of action, even if I consider his action a heinous crime (#🧠｜serious-chat message).

My impression is that, you're desperately trying to justify mocking, ridiculing, and insulting Islam and Muslims. It's not justifiable. I'd suggest you stop it here.

[mystic bay]

What exactly does 'We are not gonna tolerate' amount to in practice?

[golden mountain]

joseph stalin

priviet i am a supporter of nazism

[tender vessel]

Our response is probably going to be harsh. It varies depending on the nature of the offfense.
We could file a lawsuit, respond in kind, boycott the product or program (if it's related to a product or program), sometimes completely disregard the individual etc... It greatly varies and is entirely dependent on the nature of the offense.

[golden mountain]

i am allah's sperm donor

[mystic bay]

I suppose what I am asking is whether it would be limited to dissociation (disregard, boycotting, etc.) or whether you are alluding to the use of violence.

[tender vessel]

If it's in an Islamic state, the individual would certainly be held accountable in an Islamic court, and the punishment would fit the crime at this point.

[golden mountain]

btw he is cheating on prophet muhammad with jesus christ

[formal pilot]

Mute incoming

[golden mountain]

thy are getting engaged

sorry

what happen

[dusty kite]

refrain please

[golden mountain]

no

[dusty kite]

what u mean no

[tender vessel]

I'm not sure why my answer wasn't sufficiently clear, but as I said, it's dependent on the nature of the offense.
If the offender resorts to force or violence, they will likely encounter a violent response.

But if that answers your question, Islam doesn't endorse vigilantism.

[mystic bay]

So if the offence is not violent, then it will not be met with violence?

[dense agate]

i guess gay sexual intercourse is considered violent then kek

[golden mountain]

cant you comprehend english?

[main bison]

can i call u Miss jeong?

[thorny steeple]

Is this all allowed in an educational server ?

[mystic bay]

You may call me whatever you like. But my friends on discord (few though they be) normally call me 'PJ'

[main bison]

what does pj stand for

[mystic bay]

They are my initials

My full name, I don't normally disclose

[tender vessel]

It really depends. Under Sharia law, an Islamic country is obligated to implement sentences that could be considered to you "violent", such as Zina (adultery) which could result (under strict conditions and considerations from the Islamic court) to lashing - if the perpetrator is not married -, or stoning - if the perpetrator is married -.

[main bison]

is joeng ur last name?

[upper peak]

HmM

[mystic bay]

No, my forename

[main bison]

how long did u study for to get a phd?

[mystic bay]

I'm not sure that lashing and stoning are violent only according to a certain viewpoint . . . I am pretty certain they are just violent.

[mystic bay]

Three years

[main bison]

only?

[mystic bay]

Yes

That is fairly standard for a UK PhD

[main bison]

i meant combined with masters and others

[mystic bay]

Oh, well altogether I was in uni for six years

[main bison]

hmmm
May i ask how old you are

[mystic bay]

An English undergraduate degree is usually three years

also, Master's degrees are not universally required to do a PhD

although most people do them

[mystic bay]

I am 28

[main bison]

How can u jump straight to a phd?

[mystic bay]

That's allowed in the UK, as long as you get a first-class degree at undergraduate level

[main bison]

Did u study at oxfors or cambridge?

[main bison]

no idea whats that

[mystic bay]

I did my PhD at Cambridge

[main bison]

thats soo cool
how Did u like the uni

[mystic bay]

First-class is the highest degree result you can get for an undergraduate degree, like a BA

[waxen shale]

Is multyparty system better than two party system?

[main bison]

whats a undergraduate degree

[mystic bay]

That's the three- or four-year degree that most people do

Like a Bachelor's?

Below a Master's

[main bison]

Confusing

[mystic bay]

Yeah I guess

you get used to it eventually

[main bison]

can u apply to teach at a university ?

[mystic bay]

Yes, but there are not many opportunities at the moment

[tender vessel]

It is, indeed, violent. However, according to certain viewpoints, it is not wrong.
In fact, even in secular states/countries, certain actions, although not violent, could be sentenced with violent punishments, such as treason which is punishable by death in many secular and non-secular countries (US, China, Russia, North Korea etc...).
So, punishments are not solely dependent on the action, but also on the effect and influence of that action. That's why I've said it depends on the nature of the offense.

[main bison]

Duh:(

[mystic bay]

I agree that many non-Islamic states also use violence as a punishment for 'offences' which are not violent in themselves

Then again, whether they should do so remains to be seen . . .

I am of the opinion that using violence to get things done is completely oafish and thuggish

[waxen shale]

I feel like US or UK have a flawed political system. They just have two party to be vote . So people becomes polarized and prone to conflict. And the fact that the system allow winner takes all, makes the losers more agitated and aggressive. They will deem the opposition as an actual Evil that doesn't have the right to vote whatsoever. Constantly making a conflict in politics

[tender vessel]

I see. While I don't share your opinion and believe certain individuals couldn't be rehabilitated, I understand your point.

[mystic bay]

I don't necessarily agree with a rehabilitation view either

I think it comes down more to what counts as an 'offence' in the first place

@tender vessel Btw, did you see that I posted a reply to your comments about naturalistic ethics ?

[tender vessel]

Oh, yes. I have read it and I believe your point is, to some extent, solid, although I don't think it addressed the challenges in my previous message. I didn't have the time to give my take on though. It would be a long discussion if I do, honestly. 😅

[mystic bay]

Well, alright

[feral river]

I don't see there's any problem to sentence a guy who committed treason

[tender vessel]

I understand.

I'm not stating it's a problem though.

[feral river]

yeah I understand that I just expressed my opinion about it and I was so pissed about some leftists promoting that sick idea of abolishing death sentence

that was pure stupid

[waxen shale]

Corrupting = death ?

[feral river]

treason was not as simple as corrupted

you may dissatisfied with current situation you may express your opinion or do something but treason means betrayal to your nation and people which will be sentenced to death because you are no longer contain any value to other individual, society and state.

that means you are an enemy, and enemy will be killed.

[waxen shale]

China had death punisment for corrupt people ?

[feral river]

we have that for all the time even US have lol

it's not like other crimes you may have a chance to correct yourself or prove yourself on a trial

[waxen shale]

I just look it up. I think US ain't got Death punisment for corruption

[feral river]

*Treason is a crime in the United States that involves waging war against the country or providing aid to its enemies. It is the only crime defined in the US Constitution.
Definition

Levying war against the United States
Adhering to the enemies of the United States
Giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States 

Punishment Death, Imprisonment for at least five years, A fine of at least $10,000, and Incapacity to hold any office under the United States.*

[waxen shale]

Did i refer to treason?

[feral river]

I did not you lol

[shy summit]

We haven’t used the death penalty federally in a long time

[feral river]

I'm referring to treason not other thing

[shy summit]

And for good reason

[waxen shale]

Im not talking about treason. I'm talking about punishment for corruption

[feral river]

ahhh that one we don't punish people to death who are corrupted I guess

[shy summit]

Less and less states use capital punishment as it’s proven to be remarkably ineffective at actually reducing crime

[feral river]

probably deprive your rights to participate in politics permanently and sentence you to prison for life

in China

[shy summit]

You can undo imprisonment

You can’t undo death

[feral river]

yeah both are efficient I guess, in prison they will have to produce cheap stuff and generate some value for society

not bad actually

[shy summit]

We find that states who use the death penalty constantly abuse it and end up getting innocent people killed

The death penalty has proven ineffective

[feral river]

lemme guess Virginia ?

confederate legacy lol

[waxen shale]

Bribery & Embezzlement (Article 383 of the Criminal Law of China): If the amount exceeds 3 million yuan (~$420,000) and causes "extremely serious harm" to the state, the offender may receive the death penalty.

So death penalty still possible?

[shy summit]

China overuses it though more often they use other means to murder people

[feral river]

unnecessary tbh

we don't kill people for kill people don't criminalize us by this way

we only kill people who are deserved to be killed which decided by state officials

[azure brook]

kill people who are deserved

who deserves it

[shy summit]

No one deserves it

[mystic bay]

everyone deserves it!

https://tenor.com/view/cat-bang-on-table-banging-on-table-attention-hungry-gif-12890612

[shy summit]

Not even funny

[mystic bay]

I saw you smile

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-sneaky-gif-7455156

[prisma cipher]

Yes funny, because your statements that no one deserve it sounds funny.

[worn cargo]

This command moved to Slash Commands /ban.

[bronze maple]

I need the Permission: BAN_MEMBERS!

[thorny steeple]

/ban @thorny steeple

use this

u don't have perms lol

lmao 🤣 from the mods and admins

ask them

@pulsar wyvern

i m not mod lol

@dusty kite

[dusty kite]

hi

whats going on here

whats is that ban command

[thorny steeple]

he is doing something crazy 🤣

[dusty kite]

refrain from trolling

this is serious chat

[thorny steeple]

hey nth much

[dusty kite]

help u in what

go open a ticket

#🛂｜report-help

[thorny steeple]

The first time i have ever seen the mod popped up here

[torn shore]

Question: how is it an 'exam' if you already know the result?

[feral river]

determined by state officials according to the law

and some cases in judges

still state officials because they control the judge

[azure brook]

hmm what if they gave a wrong decision

[feral river]

they would never

the decision is final

[azure brook]

everyone can make a wrong decision

they are human

[feral river]

you can't undo a death penalty

[torn shore]

Lawyer here 👋. I think death penalty should be universally abolished.

[feral river]

change the lawyer to leftist would be more reasonable

[azure brook]

indeed

[feral river]

there's no point to abolish it, we use it to deter the possible crime and we release free social resources from keeping them alive

[crude widget]

Everything has its pros and cons. You can't just decide that something is worth keeping when you focus on only the pros without regard to the cons

[chrome jetty]

Good evening 🐼

[torn shore]

Oh my dear...Studies show that countries/states with the death penalty don't necessarily have lower crime rates. Moreover, death penalty is used as political weapon for oppression.

[edgy elm]

I agree and tbh I'm disillusioned about the future of Hong Kong. It just won't be as good as it used to be.

I will consider leaving it

[stiff rose]

bullshit ,if it is applied as it should then people are going to behave,the Brazilian favelas are an example

[torn shore]

Its Interestingly complex. I have to do more research on the Brazilian case.
But I want you to consider these factors as well-
The definition of “Law”, said Austin, is the command of the sovereign backed by sanction. In Brazilian favelas, don't they face instant execution by the police death squads? Or maybe rival gangs? That should have detered crimes radically! Why isn't it happening?

My common sense says maybe they require political solutions not legal.

[thorny steeple]

In many ways, Mainland China has already surpassed Hong Kong in terms of economic size, technological advancements, and global influence. Cities like Shenzhen and Shanghai have grown into major financial and innovation hubs, Hong Kong still maintains the international trade sector, it has unique advantages in many ways but it faces some political challenges, meanwhile Shang hai is so advanced like buildings and architecture far more impressive than hongkong tho

Many hongkongers really value freedom, freedom of politics, freedom of speech unlike mainland China

Many wealthy individuals rather leave Hongkong

Hongkong no future i feel that, it will become just a city gradually

And more rely on the mainland china

[slender coral]

Here's one

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,1 until they pay the tax,2 willingly submitting, fully humbled.
The interpretation of ibn-Kathir:
(. ..and feel themselves subdued.) This Ayah means, `this will be your compensation for the closed markets that you feared would result.' Therefore, Allah compensated them for the losses they incurred because they severed ties with idolators, by the Jizyah they earned from the People of the Book."
https://quran.com/9/29

[slender coral]

I'm not arguing that Islam promotes terrorism with you, I've said this many times before. My point is: it's natural for it to be controversial and therefor natural for it to be criticized/mocked. You want to believe and spread the idea that evolution (which is a fact proven by science) an "ideology" that promotes Nazism? Do that. It's so fucking dumb but you are certainly free to do that, you have the right to freedom of speech as a human.
Humanism doesn't accept morality on the basis of societal consensus, educate yourself about the things you talk about.
And now you are comparing Salwan with Stalin? Just wow.
I'm not desperate at all, you are the one desperate here and that's evident by how you keep avoiding addressing free speech. Instead you keep dodging that by turning it into an argument of "Is Islam a terrorist religion?". And you know what? Yes it is. But that's not what we have been trying to talk about since the beginning of this, we are talking about free speech and you haven't presented any good reasons to why beliefs should have special protections.

[void arch]

??

[lament forge]

better to abolish life imprisonment and just make them have straight up death penalty

[flint dove]

Yes

[torn shore]

Saddam Hussain died and so did the middle east. International law died in that court room. Law becomes corrupt when political elements comes into play. The whole ‘international law' is a big scam. The UN works for the western hegemony. The concept of ‘customary international law’ is disgusting.

Westerners manufacturing consent and judgement and brain washing generations. 🤪 Live with that....‘death penalty’ guy.

[flint dove]

There is no such thing as "international law"

[torn shore]

But they sure abides by it my friend. Every nation does.

[flint dove]

We grew up learning a lie and we must deal with it now and learn the truth that the people with guns will just do anything to you unless you also have a gun. Becuase currently we don't have any leader that is so good that will not do a genocide out of his mercy

[flint dove]

The ICC ICJ can only pressure the small weak nations with their law and can't do anything in cases that includes powerful countries and on top of it we should remember why the UN was created

[midnight vortex]

Guyz i have a qns is it possible to win in Argument with vegan( not talking About vegetarian) using historical Data and nutrient data? Even if it takes 20,30 years

Talking about survival

Situation and all that

[void arch]

brother ,who is goanna understand ?,and if they understand they will goanna pretend they dont really understand... -شرح الواضحات من المفضحات-

[midnight vortex]

Yo i thought u wrre responding to my chats

[torn shore]

Come under my wing. I'm looking for brave and smart people. A call for international freedom. A new world order will be established. A great time for self-determination and ambition for the Muslim lands. Collective conscious is the will of God. We shall not tolerate the genocide of innocent Palestinians. We have the truth on our side. We will colonize mars and thrive to be multiplanetary species.

During the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), he opposed the capitalists of his era. In our time, despite the oppressive systems of bankers such as the Federal Reserve, the World Bank, the IMF, and Zionist influences, capitalism has undeniably brought technological prosperity to developing countries. However, it has simultaneously turned the Arab nations into a living nightmare. While capitalism fosters prosperity, it often disregards limits. The genocide in Palestine is one of the most documented atrocities in history, yet it remains astonishingly denied by many.

The entire Western hegemony operates as a unified, organic entity. The West has embraced a Judeo-Christian identity, and under the guise of "Customary International Law," even the UN serves their agenda.

Christians, now morally bankrupt, have allowed themselves to be deceived. After World War II, they exterminated their perceived enemies, the "international elements," only to leave them entrenched in Muslim lands.

If a war erupts in the near future, it will likely be an ideological one, where the ‘cunning of reasoning’ will play a decisive role.

[shy summit]

We don’t exactly tolerate genocide in any form

[torn shore]

As America's allies continue to confront China and Russia economically, culturally, and militarily in an effort to maintain a balance of power, the Muslim world is striving to reclaim its lost progress.

Israel is a flagpost of humanity’s standpoint. A nation-state that can kill innocent babies surely poses a nuclear threat—a global threat. With the upcoming advancements in AI and modern warfare technologies, humanity will undoubtedly face an existential crisis. The Christopher Columbuses of our time, like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, have set their sights on voyages to Mars. Muslims, too, possess the same capacity for adventure and exploration.

If the pulse of common subjects is allowed the right to self-determination and great ambition, a new era of international freedom is on the horizon. The truth is patiently, yet forcefully, awaiting its moment.

I, by default, subscribe to the class struggle of Marxist ideology and abhor the money-God.

I have carefully studied the ‘words’ of various philosophers. They are bewitched by the ‘language game,’ as Ludwig Wittgenstein has pointed out. Language follows a social rule, which is why I choose one deity—Allah—the summum bonum--the highest good, the explanation for the creation of the universe. Allah is not a personal god but the God of 1.9 billion people.

[shy summit]

Literally everyone here save for a few don’t support the genocide @torn shore

That’s why the ceasefire is a good thing. Gives us a chance to negotiate

[flint dove]

let's also not support Zionism because their policies are in favor of the genocide. their Target is ethnically cleansing the Palestinians

[torn shore]

Where are you from?

[formal pilot]

I don't understand the reasoning in debating vegans. If they come up to you with their unsolicited advice and their so called education just firmly say "no, I choose not to be vegan and don't have to justify it to you or anyone else".

I eat it because I like it, stop me if you can

[shy summit]

The U.S. i’m aware of the conflict dynamic. Its a horrible situation overall

[flint dove]

👍🏼

[formal pilot]

Just be minecraft china mainland, you'll win every argument against vegans

Eventually Judaism will divide into two, Zionist jews and non Zionist jews

[shy summit]

True

[midnight vortex]

Thats a solid tip

[formal pilot]

Political movement hijacked the whole religion

[formal pilot]

Apparently he's undefeated undisputed champion of serious chat

[shy summit]

He likes to think so.

[void arch]

i dindnt understand ur respond !

[lament forge]

u're just yapping non sense

[torn shore]

Quick typing

[shy summit]

Seemed more like a copy-paste to me

Tbf discord has a character limit

[lament forge]

it had nothing to do with what I said

[void arch]

wdym? by freedom of speech when u disrespect and insult others or even in this case promote and incite hatred towards a religious group and disrespect their religious value,

u wanna criticize the religion in appropriate way, ur welcome. and if ur insulting we are not accepting that.

ur freedom ends when u damage others freedom.

[main bison]

New mexico?
Why doesnt Trump change its name to new America ?

[slender coral]

I'm welcome to criticize the religion? Are you sure of that? I won't lose my civil rights or even get killed as a result of being a citizen in a Muslim majority country?

[shy summit]

Theocratically minded nations aren’t the most open to criticism

[lament forge]

"islam and the damage to everyone who's not a straight man"

[slender coral]

Islam damages everyone and anything that isn't Islamic

[void arch]

what do U think criticizing a religion academically ? do u think it a bunch of insults and disrespecting words?

[shy summit]

Tbf Ayoub the middle east and some bits of asia are getting smoke for their treatment of certain demographics

[lament forge]

u ain't even american tf u saying buddy

[shy summit]

He isn’t

[main bison]

hmm

[lament forge]

bro's always glazing trump

[shy summit]

That’s cause he isn’t informed

[slender coral]

The thing is, you guys don't even accept constructive discussion if your beliefs are questioned. Now putting that aside, yes I'm free to insult anyone's beliefs just like how everyone is free to do the same with my beliefs.

[lament forge]

he's prob not welcomed there by the people he supports

[shy summit]

True

[void arch]

if dont have any basic knowledge about freedom of speech or freedom in general don't embarrass urself here

[shy summit]

Freedom of speech isn’t an invitation to demean demographics for the hell of it

Its to test ideas

Not to test eachother’s existences

[manic juniper]

He should support vegans tho, vegetarians and vegans can fit the definition of "law/rule and enforcement" (≠toilet paper)

Hindutvas are authoritarian and can be vegetarian

[slender coral]

Wdym?

[thorny steeple]

Totally 3,5k hongkong dollar i have got during the lunar new year

its 449.45 United States Dollar

i can buy new shoes anywhere

[lament forge]

nice !

[sonic pewter]

Woah

[unkempt veldt]

You are using the phrase "Law/Rule and Enforcement" (≠ Toilet Paper) very much although the laws are important. But you simply cannot live without law. Imagine there is no law that we will be like monsters in the forest. I mean by the law, following a god ( because the God is simply guided us to the path of truth and the path of wrong). We also need help of human law in order to make easy some things both Like the Traffic Law .. .

[manic juniper]

I quoted somebody else

[sacred hinge]

No belief should be insulted and why are you free to only do shitty things ? We respect our religion and our beliefs that's why we don't want people missing around, if you want a constructive talk sure lets have it but insulting wont lead to anything

[dusty robin]

hi guys dose anyone know a server like this but for spanish ?

[waxen shale]

Very simple. Let me answer with various verse of the quran. The verse you were referring to is does not mean that we fight anyone whos non believer. Rather the context of that verse was to be understood as defensive struggle. Those verse came down when the polytheist in mecca try to persecute muslim. Basically torture and assassinate them. So that verse the came down for Muslims to start to fight.

In matter how we treated non believer. Or people who doesn't believe in last day these verse below was used for guidelines for every Muslim. If they don't FOLLOW These verse below they're recognised as kafir.

https://quran.com/al-baqarah/256

(This verse was to warn for all muslim for not forcing any religion whatsoever.)

https://quran.com/16/125
(This verse is for the ethic of how muslim engaging in debate with another non muslim)

https://quran.com/109
( These chapters was referencing the people who worship what we don't worship)

Lastly. the verse you take is Clearly been taking out of context, i suggest you be sincere in engaging with us, and do not taking everything without researching it first. It just makes you looks silly.

[stable edge]

hello

[slender coral]

Insulting beliefs is part of free speech. Not everything people do have to lead to something, and that's ok as long as it doesn't harm anyone. (your feelings getting hurt aren't considered real harm)
With that said, no you guys don't accept constructive discussion. Criticizing Islam no matter how respectful you do it can lead you to getting killed, imprisoned, or in best case scenario harassed in most Muslim countries.

[waxen shale]

I just wanna let you know that freespeech has its consequences. And btw You automatically lose credibility when you take verse out of context

[shy summit]

Insults are one thing, hate speech is another

[slender coral]

They always try to argue that the two are the same.

[shy summit]

They aren’t but there is overlap

[slender coral]

You read the tafsir?

[mystic bay]

I'm doubtful that it makes sense to speak of an unqualified 'right to free speech'. I think that what matters more is where you are when the speech is uttered. There's the world of difference, it seems to me, between my saying whatever I want to say when I am sitting in my living room and my saying whatever I want to say while sitting in your living room.

On the one hand, if I am engaging in speech acts that are offensive, demeaning or distasteful while on my property, there is no way that someone can physically stop me without being a trespasser.

On the other hand, if I am engaging in speech acts which you don't care to listen to (whatever they might be) while I am on your property, then I don't see any reason why you should be obliged to suffer my presence there longer than you wish to.

When all is said and done, the so-called right to free speech, just like many alleged rights, just collapse into property rights.

[slender coral]

What do you mean?

[waxen shale]

What about the tafsir ?

[slender coral]

(. ..and feel themselves subdued.) This Ayah means, `this will be your compensation for the closed markets that you feared would result.' Therefore, Allah compensated them for the losses they incurred because they severed ties with idolators, by the Jizyah they earned from the People of the Book."

[mystic bay]

Didn't I just explain what I mean?

[slender coral]

I'm just making sure I understood it correctly. How do you think what you said translates to this situation?

[waxen shale]

Yeah what about it ?

[mystic bay]

I'm not sure exactly which situation you are referring to, but it seems to me that the principle can be generalised. What a person is saying matters less than where he or she is.

[slender coral]

Do you basically think what's wrong and right depends on the place where you are? I'm not strawmanning I genuinely don't get you.

[waxen shale]

The jizya is a tax you pay once a year. And it's not very expensive.

[slender coral]

Like, take the situation with Muslims for example

How Muslim majority countries kill and imprison those who criticize Islam

[mystic bay]

I'm not offering a general theory of right and wrong. I'm just suggesting that what we are calling 'free speech' is better understood in terms of people exercising their property rights. For example, saying what you want to say while on your property, or ejecting from your property somebody who engages in speech acts which you don't care to listen to.

[waxen shale]

I live in Muslim majority. We don't kill and imprison people

[slender coral]

I wouldn't like to be forced to pay a tax for not believing in the religion of the state. It's amount isn't specified in the Quran nor in Hadith, and it's a part of a set of discriminatory laws against non Muslims in a Muslim country, they are called laws of Ahlul-Dhimma أحكام أهل الذمة, read about them. I think ibn al-qayyim has a book with that title, read some of it and see how diginified non-Muslims are under Sharia.

[slender coral]

Where are you from?

[waxen shale]

Haven't you know it ? I pretty sure yesterday I was telling you

[slender coral]

I forgot

[waxen shale]

The amount isn't specified ??!!! No.. im out

[slender coral]

Where was it specified then?

[void arch]

both are wrong in when we start seeing Insulting ppl is OK?.. ur just embarrassing urself ..

[slender coral]

I'm saying insulting beliefs is fine, and the retaliation for insulting people doesn't have to be death, that's whay I'm saying.

[void arch]

when was fine ?

[slender coral]

Since ever

[void arch]

are u living in ur own definition?

[slender coral]

No

It's the secular definiton, the one that tries to ensure people with different beliefs can live together without killing each other.

[void arch]

Insults =vocal violence , do u know that

that takes in prison in my country

[slender coral]

What the hell is vocal violence? You are making shit up.

[slender coral]

Where are you from?

[void arch]

no we re not

Go to the United kingdom and start insulting ppl ok?

[slender coral]

You are comparing hurting your fragile feelings to violence

[void arch]

a waste of time.

[slender coral]

Yea

[torpid dirge]

Any particular example? Could you give ?

[slender coral]

You have the recent case with Sherif Gaber in Egypt. The man got 8 years in prison for "incitment to atheism".

[mystic bay]

I must admit, I am surprised at the fragility

In adult life, you just will encounter people who say things you find insulting

[slender coral]

You can imagine living among those people. God I wish I leave as soon as possible.

[restive zodiac]

what the value of someone does not hold what he loves and respect or believe that is true to the highest position ? ..
Gaining respect need self respect implies holding it in a high esteem ..
only someone who's truly a believer would be able to understand .

[mystic bay]

I found that unintelligible

[elder seal]

No u

[restive zodiac]

u ll not understand that until u be a one

[mystic bay]

A one?

[elder seal]

A nun, obviously

[restive zodiac]

a one who respect himself and his belief

[mystic bay]

Have I given any disrespect?

[elder seal]

Also, going to use copilot on this - that's nonsensical.

"The value of holding what you love, respect, or believe in to the highest position is immense. If you don't do this, it can lead to a lack of self-respect. Self-respect is crucial for earning respect from others. Only someone who truly believes in something can fully understand this principle. It means you must place your values and beliefs at the forefront of your life to maintain integrity and self-worth."

Bam, did ya a service 😎

[elder seal]

Your pfp is disrespectful to the colorblind

[restive zodiac]

u did forget one point

[elder seal]

Copilot forgot one point* I'm not the one who wrote this 🙂‍↕️

[restive zodiac]

alr

[slender coral]

You don't need to kill someone to protect something you respect. In fact, killing and suppressing people for your beliefs undermine them. It shows them as weak and unable to withstand scrutiny, just like how tyrants suppress their people since they are unable to justify their actions and ideologies.

[mystic bay]

Good ideas don't require force

That is probably the most significant idea the West received from the Enlightenment

We tell our children "Don't hit, use your words"

And then certain grown-ups forget that

And then they go into government or the police or military

[waxen shale]

Use verbal abuse instead

[mystic bay]

Exactly

[waxen shale]

I would rather getting belted.

[mystic bay]

Then you can pay someone to do that

[slender coral]

LMAO

[waxen shale]

Nahh..... Not what i mean

[slender coral]

I prefer a whip, personally.

[mystic bay]

[slender coral]

Belts and whips aside, let's say that we punish everyone who disrespects your religious beliefs, do you guys realize that many sets of religious beliefs are insulting to each other? Shia Muslims for example see Mohamed's companions as evil, while Sunni Muslims think of them as central figures for the religion, some Christians consider the Islamic belief that god didn't let Jesus get crucified a form of deception which makes them find the story insulting to god, Jews believe that Mary committed adultery, etc... If we aren't alllowed to say stuff that are offensive to anyone, no one would be able to express their views.

[mortal depot]

Christians believe Jesus was crucified bruv

[slender coral]

I know...

[restive zodiac]

I didn't mention using force or violence to begin with , in fact before to reach that stage ,u could just respect other's beliefs and stop justifying ridiculing and insulting ppl and their religion. by that ur just spreading hatred and awaking violence bcz ur the one disrespecting other. so don't play the victim when u disrespect ppl in their own place.

[mortal depot]

Jews actually should just become atheists now like seriously in their books the messiah must come before the destruction of the second temple and must be punished killed and then rose again they don't believe in Jesus this making Jewish books false prophecy wow

[slender coral]

The thing is, as I said so many times before, even constructive discussion around religion isn't allowed in Muslim majority countries.
And anyway, ridiculing and mocking religion isn't something that deserves a strong reaction for the so many reasosn I've been talking about for days now in this chat.

[slender coral]

Well, from my experience with Muslims people would just do mental gymnastics to justify their obviously wrong religious beliefs.

[mystic bay]

1. Mature adults should not engage in idle mockery or insults intended to hurt or offend

2. Mature adults should learn to cope with mockery and insults without resorting to force, or petitioning the state to resort to force

I think that everyone agrees to 1. But for some reason 2. is a bit of a sticking point. This really does just come down to being a grown-up.

[slender coral]

I don't think they agree with 1. either. The thing is, the intention isn't important for them. If someone just is expressing their views rather than actively trying to offend people, they consider the person a criminal too.

[restive zodiac]

The thing is, as I said so many times before, even constructive discussion around religion isn't allowed in Muslim majority countries.
This is not actually true ,ur being biased here , I don't doubt ur mixing with constructive discussion and a direct offense toward specific Group.
And anyway, ridiculing and mocking religion isn't something that deserves a strong reaction for the so many reasosn I've been talking about for days now in this chat.
Finally acknowledged offending ppl is not freedom. good for u

[slender coral]

I'm honestly tired

Just look through my older messages.

[restive zodiac]

it s not matter of individual Vs individual, it s a matter of someone promoting hatred towards specific Group and a specific system of beliefs.

[slender coral]

Offending people is a part of our freedom of expression. I didn't say it isn't.

[mystic bay]

Groups are nothing over and above the individual members, and beliefs are nothing over and above the individuals who hold them

[slender coral]

Hey @mortal depot, why do you believe in Christianity if you don't mind asking? Pick a reason and discuss it.

[mortal depot]

I believe there is good evidence for the ressurection because there is no naturalistic objection that fully succeeds in arguing against the ressurection
Such as the mystic theory hallucinating theory
Conspiracy theory these all have been disproved by scholar Gary habermas and Michael Jones has also discussed the evidence also Mike licona gives good arguements for it too I myself didn't have good objections to the ressurection when I wasn't christian

[stray cipher]

Freedom is to live your live without hate , some statements have the power to change a lot , so if you use your ideas and your words wisely then it will benefit others, and the opposite will damage the society.

[restive zodiac]

It's different, they are not insulting an Individual himself, they are insulting and inciting hatred towards a religion towards a specific group , religion is above individuals.

[slender coral]

Sometimes, statements that can change society positively can be offensive as they challange deeply held wrong beliefs. Yes, most of the time it's constructive discussion that pushes society forward but even that we usually don't have as citizens in Muslim countries.

[mortal depot]

When I was an atheist the evidence definitely convinced me alot

[crude spruce]

Bro , its not worth it . @slender coral was arguing last night , that it ok to disrespect others belifs, like burning the quran

[restive zodiac]

those ppl are believing their religion and beliefs are more important than their existence

[mortal depot]

Burning any book is bad

[slender coral]

Tell me more about the ressurection, how did we know about it and how many people saw it?

[restive zodiac]

this is not offensive ,be offensive!.. lets see if u can distinguish between Critics and insults.

[mortal depot]

This is a pretty long topic
I will send you some links later
However the most best people who saw it were the 12 disciples

[slender coral]

It's childish to go around and just insult religious beliefs, I don't advocate for that. What I'm advocating for are things like cartoons, jokes, etc...
And in all cases, offending people doesn't deserve death nor prison time.

[restive zodiac]

wasted

[stray cipher]

“ الشورى “ is discussing ideas and give an advice to needed people, so yes now days we lost that meaning .

[slender coral]

That's a very small number for witnesses for such a significant event.

[elder seal]

PFP checks out

[restive zodiac]

ur not a man of ur words.

[slender coral]

I don't get what you mean, you oppose how Muslims deal with opposition?

[slender coral]

Yup

[crude spruce]

Last night , you said " its ok to burn quran "

[slender coral]

Yes. That goes along side cartoons and jokes.

[mortal depot]

Also the three women

Paul records a creed in 1 Corinthians 15
This creed is dated to 35 ad by some scholars and this creed says 500 people saw the risen Jesus so we get alot of people saying this early

[crude spruce]

Yeah , he is

[restive zodiac]

he lost his credibility

[slender coral]

What tf are those people yapping about

[restive zodiac]

go tf to sleep

[crude spruce]

He just like to argue with people

[slender coral]

Ok daddy

[slender coral]

I mean, that's the entire purpose of the channel right?

[slender coral]

I feel like, that's a significant event that got underrepprted.
How did we know about those 500 people, did they write about the event?

[mortal depot]

The creed which is of course a group of people saying this in 35 ad Paul record this he is also a piece of the evidence because he was an enemy of the church he persecuted christian families and later turned christian himself and got martyred for his faith under the rule of emperor nero he was far more educated then the apostles and wouldn't fall for their lies IF they were lying

[mortal depot]

However the 500 eyewitnesses is never used as evidence in debates it can be used however it can't go more then 5 minutes the evidence used for the ressurection is mostly the 12 disciples

[mystic bay]

N. T. Wright emphasises the historical certainty of the empty tomb as well as the experiences people had of Jesus post mortem

and posits the reality of Jesus's bodily resurrection as the best historical explanation of these facts

[mortal depot]

N.T wright is a W

[mystic bay]

I met him once

at a conference in Scotland

[mortal depot]

Lucky bro

[mortal depot]

Michael Jones from inspiring philosophy literally debunks all the objections in 45 minutes as well

[mystic bay]

I don't know him

[mortal depot]

He is a good apologist

[torpid dirge]

I don't think that's unfair he did post about Islamic abominate and spreading it on Facebook

[flint dove]

I meant the bani Israelis treat the Palestinian hostages so terribly i have no wolrd to say looking at the picture of the released Palestinian hostages

[flint dove]

Questions about this is answered by our scholars in detailed.

if you really wanted to learn you could look it up instead of saying all that.

i think you only want to spread misinformation about Islam

[flint dove]

I said the same yesterday but only you keep saying the opposite

Stop the hate against Islam based on the lies you guys spread.

[manic juniper]

Pretty much no one, even the three predictions of his death are thought to be interpolation

[thorny steeple]

the muslim terrorist organizations!!!the pan-Islamic caliphate ,Hezbollah,Taliban ,Boko Haram,Taliban,Islamic State ,Al-Shabaab, those groups often use religious rhetoric to justify their actions

[ancient kraken]

Just look at what Islam says not at what « groups » saying they follow Islam do

It’s like taking as an exemple 9/11 to criticize Muslims it’s dumb, bc in islam it never tells us to act like what the terrorists of 9/11 did

[flint dove]

I've never seen those groups.

We think isis is a group completely controlled by USA and their allies.

I really don't see how you add Taliban with Isis

you wrote caliphate also.
Caliphate is not any group but it's... how how explain. look it up.

Hezbollah also doesn't go together with the names.

judging by your text I really don't think you know much about any of them.

.
in short, people from the western hemisphere of media greatly misunderstands Isiam because they don't report about them honestly

i said western hemisphere because that's how it looks like. Our media follow the western rules and we use the platform that are run by the western TOS at the same time because of our language barrier and because we mostly take the news in English we are greatly greatly sunk into the western hemisphere of media

[manic juniper]

You're talking to a Chinese guy, what does western media have to do with it

[golden abyss]

can I join this chat? even my english is B1?

[sharp marten]

the 12 disciples bruv

dumb ahh

[thorny steeple]

👀

[manic juniper]

Mandaeans say that it was a trick and he never died on the cross, they are many thousands

[sharp marten]

legit stupid ahh antitheists

[manic juniper]

Thousands vs 12 people

[sharp marten]

12 people who actually lived side by side with jesus and actually were afraid their 3 years were gonna go to waste because if jesus hadnt risen he wouldve been exposed as a false prophet but guess what peter and the gang went back to preaching after three days

[manic juniper]

The entire story was written down decades after the supposed event, how does any of that make sense or is trustworthy even

[sharp marten]

most of the information i gave you comes from the book of acts which is incredibly reliable

[manic juniper]

Especially from a time where people used to have all sorts of weird visions, they'd meet Romulus the founder of Rome, I don't trust the account of 12 crazy asses

[manic juniper]

According to...?

[sharp marten]

they were 12 crazy asses to you but a carpenter and his 12 buddies changed the world forever remember that

[manic juniper]

No they didn't

In millions of years all humans will go extinct and no one will have a single thought about these events

[sharp marten]

this is just plain willful ignorance now lol pride is an astounding thing

[sharp marten]

https://youtu.be/qBwOXN00YK0?si=EJ7vSQHhgTRE-QVh

[manic juniper]

Ah a YouTube video, I won't even bother

[sharp marten]

written by luke who compiled eyewitness accounts

[manic juniper]

😭 you're a Christian nationalist man

[sharp marten]

yeah willful ignorance

[manic juniper]

A YouTube video isn't a source

What kind of issues do people have here

[sharp marten]

its literally filled with internal details which boost its reliability

[sharp marten]

less then you

[manic juniper]

Lmfao according to... Itself basically

[manic juniper]

Than*

[sharp marten]

this was written to be sent to a dude theophilus

[golden abyss]

all the events in the bible were chosen by the governing bodies of the church sometime in the 4th century, notall the events in the bible were chosen by the governing bodies of the church sometime in the 4th century, I don't know the exact year, but I think between 310-330. At that council the ones that did not contradict each other were chosen from hundreds of biblical works. The main point that I see is that it is not so much the biblical truth that matters, but the teachings, as parables, that are handed down to us. If we try to dismiss religion as truth we will only be disappointed. If we embrace religion as an idea and as a way of life, then we can keep both our belief in the secular and our belief in science without contradiction. I don't know the exact year, but I think 310-330. At that council they chose from hundreds of biblical works the ones that didn't contradict each other. The main point that I see is that it is not so much the biblical truth that matters, but the teachings, as parables, that are handed down to us. If we try to dismiss religion as truth we will only be disappointed. If we embrace religion as an idea and as a way of life then we can keep both our faith in the laity and our faith in the faith