🧠｜serious-chat

[meager basin]

Hello everyone!

What're you doing?

[solar geyser]

Hello!, how are you? It's a pleasure to meet you. I am intermediate/advanced in English, and I'd like to practice by a voice call. Who is available and free to practice?

[devout otter]

hello

[safe depot]

@meager basin Hello Curious_man
I am learning english and math and c language

becuse exam

[native mango]

Is he fighting the mice?

[copper dove]

Ã

[void arch]

salam alykom

[copper dove]

personally, I really can't forcibly turn myself on the ideas of preferring to have a positive opinions on the people of the world with slightly higher pigment on their epidermis that originated from the original human homes of the continent south of Europe named from The Roman referring to the other sides of Mediterranean sea called Africa.

ignore the context is this how British people speak?

[void arch]

is this an active claim , its started with personally ?

[copper dove]

what's active claim

[void arch]

hhhh

[copper dove]

h?

[void arch]

def active claim?

huh

[balmy folio]

@void arch
Alykum Assalam

[void arch]

baraka Allah fikom

[balmy folio]

What is your age?

[void arch]

19 yrs old

[balmy folio]

Mashallah

[obtuse eagle]

?t

[cursive bobcat]

Topic

Which TV show do you want your life to be like?

The English Hub - Source: yagpdb topic command + other sources

[elder seal]

Meh

[elder seal]

Nah, they use the term 'mate,' "innit" and 'oy, chips and crumbits' a bit more often than this

So more like this: "Oy, mate, I just can't bring meself to fancy folks with a bit more pigment in their skin, y'know, the ones from Africa, like. It's just not my cup o' tea, innit?"

[meager basin]

Hello @safe depot . Great, so we can assist to each other for that particular condition

[meager basin]

How bizarre is British accent!

[desert nebula]

i want him to be our future president

[balmy folio]

his story makes me sad, especially the mother

[thorny steeple]

Western propoganda

[balmy folio]

you claim that no cruelty and blood shed happened in syria?

[desert nebula]

:((

he remained with the revolution till the end💚 those are the people that we're proud of

meit warde 🌸for his brother and family, Allah yerhamon

[balmy folio]

Inshallah Syria will be prosperous under Al Jollani leadership

[desert nebula]

??

[balmy folio]

May Allah have mercy, Syrians really give alot sacrifice

Do you know about Mahmud Ghaznavid? his empire, attacks and history

[desert nebula]

nope

[balmy folio]

O morning breeze! Tell the door of the Kaaba,
The message of Muslim unity has arrived.

"Imperialism has ruined the world. It is high time that we, as Muslims, realize our strength and unite to counter its nefarious designs."
Quaid

[meager basin]

Good night

Is there anyone asleep?

[mystic bay]

imagine sleeping

[meager basin]

You study PhD?

[mystic bay]

I used to

[meager basin]

Does it give anything significant for personal growth?

[mystic bay]

Absolutely not

[meager basin]

But it opens better job opportunities?

[mystic bay]

Ha

It depends

Maybe not for a philosopher

[meager basin]

Depends on?

[mystic bay]

On your subject

[meager basin]

A, okay

So, it isn't like Master degree

[mystic bay]

Not at all

[meager basin]

Picking up private subject

[mystic bay]

I don't believe that it has made me any more marketable

[balmy folio]

You are PHD in Aristotle

[mystic bay]

My doctorate is in philosophy

[meager basin]

Actually, it depends on personality sometimes

[mystic bay]

lol

[meager basin]

To be more marketable

I know it from my academic and job career

[balmy folio]

Philosophy can be orthodox and secular or only one

[meager basin]

What

[balmy folio]

Yeah, Can philosophy be religious?

[meager basin]

Why not?

[balmy folio]

Name one

[meager basin]

So, you're talking about philosophers?

Or just philosophy as subject

[balmy folio]

Philosoohers

[meager basin]

There're several bro

In the medieval islam countries

[mystic bay]

Of course philosophers can be religious

What kind of question is that?

[meager basin]

Yes

[balmy folio]

I read that philosophy can't be based on religion

[meager basin]

Avicenna is the first pattern

Although he was also doctor

Or it maybe Nietzsche, i guess

[balmy folio]

Where are you from? Name a famous philosopher of your country

[mystic bay]

You can read all sorts of silly things

[meager basin]

Your material maybe false

[balmy folio]

Philosophy can be based on religion

Do you know about Allama Iqbal?

[meager basin]

Akhundzadah

Bakikhanov

[meager basin]

Who is this?

[balmy folio]

He is a poet, Iqbals poetry is philophical.

[meager basin]

Why do you argue bro?

In vain

I named to you several philosophers from my country or europe

Philosophy is about mostly moral things

And also religions' desire is to teach such things

[balmy folio]

I wanna discuss just.

[meager basin]

Yes, it maybe some distinctions or even oppositions

[meager basin]

Okay, let's discuss further

Why do you think like that? It's curious to me

[balmy folio]

I was judging religious orthodoxy on philosophy and someone pointed that philosophy is totally separate from religion

[meager basin]

You say all philosophers are irreligious or anything else?

[meager basin]

Probably, it was me

[balmy folio]

Are you also phd?

[meager basin]

Though i'm not even christian, it came me so interesting

[balmy folio]

It was my teacher

[meager basin]

Master

[meager basin]

Your teacher said to you it can be like that?

[balmy folio]

Nice, Recommend me some books that are easy to understand its my hobby to read philosophy

[meager basin]

Actually i red a few books

About philophy

But it was among them Epictetos, Socrates

[balmy folio]

They said philosophy is separate frim religion and can't be based on religion.

[meager basin]

And also, Plato

[meager basin]

Yes, it can be true

But you said totally different thing, i guess

[short yacht]

Serious chat?

[meager basin]

. Here

[short yacht]

Guys where are you from?

[meager basin]

The World

I'm from Caucasus

[short yacht]

Country: The world 🔥

[balmy folio]

I argued that philosophers can be religious, and philosophy can be debatable and based on religion. But the point is debates on religion or discussion on religion that's the point where lagging. It was eith teacher

[mystic bay]

Bikini Bottom

[meager basin]

Aa, you didn't emphasize the country:)

[meager basin]

Bro, you said can philosophers be religious?

And i said definitely they can

Ant then i even named

Several ones

[meager basin]

Here

[balmy folio]

I am telling you about discussion with teacher and point where I am stuck or on doubt you can say

[meager basin]

Okay, but why teacher did say like that? Any reason?

I want to learn about that topic

Further

[balmy folio]

Iqbal is a religious person also his poetry is about religion and philosophy, we were talking about him, he said don't take Iqbal a philosopher, philosophy can't be on religion as criticismon religion isn't a good thing, you can't criticize it.
Its the summary

[meager basin]

But he didn't give any source or proof?

[balmy folio]

Iqbal is a philosopher according to my view, can you share your thoughts on Iqbal after reading him, if you got time

[balmy folio]

In class we don't have much time after that we didn't discuss it more, I will discuss with him tomorrow

[meager basin]

Absolutely i can, but for that i need pretty much time

Because of my university exams

A, you say can i share now?

[balmy folio]

Sure

[meager basin]

Okay, give me a little time

Okay

According to Britannica, he was philosopher and also, poet

But he was also leader

He is considered one of the most significant persons in pakistani history

[balmy folio]

Elevate your selfhood so high that before destiny is written,
God Himself asks, "What is it that you desire?

An individual has worth only in relation to the nation;
A wave exists in the river, but apart from it, it is nothing.

[meager basin]

Is that a quote?

[balmy folio]

Thats his poetry some of it

[meager basin]

He did gain also philosophy from Cambridge

And was barrister

So, it can prove he was philosopher as official

[mystic bay]

What a nerd

[meager basin]

This is great part of poetry

[balmy folio]

Yeah, we concluded Iqbal a philosopher and Philosophy can based on religion

[balmy folio]

Is it for me?

[mystic bay]

no

[meager basin]

"An individual has worth only in relation to the nation"

[meager basin]

For me?

[meager basin]

This is commonly known thing now

[balmy folio]

I love his poetry very much

[meager basin]

Poet can also be philopher and religious

Look at Nitzsche

Some people say that he was mad

But he wasn't at all

Yes, he was criticizing Christianity

But it's not proof that he was irreligious

[balmy folio]

Nitzsche I heard about him

[mystic bay]

Nietzsche

[meager basin]

He was one the most hated but at the same time genius philophers in the west

[balmy folio]

What vision was he giving? Ot what kind of philosopher he was

[meager basin]

He was loving to criticize things that several people in germany or in europe accept normally

[pastel barn]

«god is dead” that’s what said Nietzsche

He didn’t recognize any religion also

[meager basin]

He was wanting also human to be evaluate

To its better version

[pastel barn]

And he is the most famous atheist

[pastel barn]

I’ve read it

[meager basin]

And the people killed him

[pastel barn]

As always

[meager basin]

I don't think so

Why he should be atheist?

[balmy folio]

"You are an eagle,
Born to soar in the sky;
Why grovel in the dust,
When you have wings to fly?"

"This universe is still incomplete,
A constant process, a timeless feat.
Rise and act, for you are the flame,
The world awaits to know your name."

"Love is the flame,
That sets the soul alight;
Without it, man is but clay,
Wandering in endless night."

Fetter not yourself with chains of fate,
The power to change is yours—create!
The stars are paths, not boundaries to bind,
Rise, for you are the master of your mind

"Boundaries of nation and creed divide,
Yet under one God, we all abide.
Break these chains of selfish strife,
And embrace the oneness of life."

"Awake, for the night is no longer young,
The stars fade, and the dawn has sung.
The world awaits your guiding light,
Rise, O soul, and take your flight."

"Time is a fleeting shadow,
Eternity the glowing flame.
Live not in the past or future,
But in the now, where lies your aim."

"Man is not weak; he is the wielder of fate,
A maker of worlds, a force innate.
Dare to think, dare to create,
For you are a spark of the divine estate."

"Faith is a force that can break all chains,
A light that shines where darkness reigns.
It turns deserts into blooming fields,
And in battle, it becomes the shield.

"Set your sight on lofty dreams,
For life is more than what it seems.
A goalless life is but a wave,
Adrift in the sea, its course unpaved."

[pastel barn]

Check his quotes

[balmy folio]

Is he your favorite philosopher

[meager basin]

Can you give any samples?

Special samples that really proves

[meager basin]

Not at every condition

[pastel barn]

Sure

[meager basin]

But he was also saying that

Islam is the greatest, i guess

Islam is the religious that is about all mankind

[balmy folio]

Did Neitszche said that

[meager basin]

Nietzsche's praise of Islam as a 'ja–sagende semitische Religion', his admiration for Hafiz, his appreciation of Muslim Spain, his belief in the essentially life–affirming character of Islam, not only spring from a desire to find a palatable Other to Judaeo–Christian–European modernity, but also comment on how little ...

[balmy folio]

What do you think about it?

[pastel barn]

He never said that

[meager basin]

I can not say he was definitely religious or irreligious

[pastel barn]

here we need to look more at the context he wasnt so much interested in Islam as he wanted to look at Europe differently

[meager basin]

Maybe but in some quotes he appreciated this religion

[meager basin]

He wanted more comprehensible religion

[balmy folio]

Nietzsche: He introduced the Übermensch as an ideal for humanity to aspire to. The Übermensch transcends conventional morality, rejecting traditional religious doctrines and embracing a life-affirming philosophy. Nietzsche believed that God is "dead" in the sense that modern society no longer relies on divine morality, necessitating a new set of values.

Iqbal’s Response: Iqbal admired Nietzsche's call for self-realization and transcending mediocrity but rejected his atheism and dismissal of religion. Iqbal saw Khudi (selfhood) as a spiritual force rooted in God-consciousness. For Iqbal, the true "Superman" is not one who denies God but one who realizes their divine potential through submission to God’s will.

Iqbal’s verse (on Nietzsche’s Superman):
"The man of God is stronger than fate;
His fire melts the heavens’ weight.
He creates worlds through his divine spark,
Illuminating all in the deepest dark."

[pastel barn]

You’re totally wrong cuz thats about islam ig

[meager basin]

I consider that's mistake to say totally wrong

[balmy folio]

Nope

[meager basin]

In his last times he did speak as a real mad

[pastel barn]

No. He was just obsessed with the idea of ​​the superman also disappointed in God and wanted people to become the best version of themselves. Read his book "Thus Spoken Zarathustra" and you’ll understand the whole essence of his teachings

[meager basin]

@pastel barn

[balmy folio]

Iqbal explicitly addressed Nietzsche in his Persian poetry, particularly in Payam-e-Mashriq (Message of the East), written as a philosophical dialogue with Goethe and Nietzsche’s works. Iqbal appreciated Nietzsche’s genius but lamented his despair and atheism.

Iqbal on Nietzsche (from Payam-e-Mashriq):
"A seer who lost his way in the dark,
His soul cried out but missed the spark.
He sought God but found Him not,
For in his heart, faith was forgot

[pastel barn]

So?

[pastel barn]

Exactly what I’m talking about

[balmy folio]

Is there any philosopher you admire or recommend?
@mystic bay

[torpid dirge]

Only fydor dostoveskey and Kafka

[pastel barn]

What kind of philosophy are you interested in?

[pastel barn]

philosophy of suffering?

[torpid dirge]

Philosophy of Deep emotions

[pastel barn]

which lead to suffering

[meager basin]

Don't you see about beatiful thoughts on special religion?

[balmy folio]

It should not lead to athiestic or secular view

[torpid dirge]

Life is miserable buddy there's ntg spacial without suffering

[pastel barn]

Does it mean that he apply any religion? You can just read his biography and get the point what he was an atheist

[balmy folio]

Share or Dm your thoughts on Islam

The path of truth is arduous and steep,
Where faith’s flame burns, the soul does leap.

"Man is the architect of his fate,
The stars bow down to those who create.
Do not despair in the darkest night,
For the dawn comes with the believer’s light."

[pastel barn]

I know. i’ve read Dostoevsky in russian language, so i know perfectly what he wrote about. But the philosophy of suffering, where any choice leads to the same thing - I don't like it

life loses its meaning in this case cuz any choice you make will lead you to suffering

[meager basin]

With whom?

[balmy folio]

To me

[meager basin]

Okay, now?

[torpid dirge]

Islam doesn't need any kind of thoughts if someone makes critisism on it

[meager basin]

And i think that, criticizm on any religion can imrove its perfection

If it's really excellent

[balmy folio]

I need their view pont and a discussion to know their hate is becauss of fake propaganda

[balmy folio]

What is your view on it?

[torpid dirge]

But suffering is real thing bruhh ....if u ever obsess with it u u never ever comes out from that

[meager basin]

I have doubts on any monotheist religion

[balmy folio]

Why?
What are they?

[meager basin]

I would like to research about Islam, Christianity and also Judaism

[torpid dirge]

And what about who still wouldn't understand if we eloborate everything about religion?

[meager basin]

Further

[meager basin]

Actually, there are several things

[pastel barn]

tbh few philosophers ive read put religion in a good light. Try Plato, Aristotle or Kant (although Kant was rational he also said that faith is important for moral development)

[balmy folio]

Heart problems, they have eyes and ear

[meager basin]

I can not comprehend your sentence

[balmy folio]

Will you recommend me some books ?

[torpid dirge]

Those ppl who haven't want to understand and accept about any religion so ? What do u suppose to them ?

[pastel barn]

gimme a sec

[meager basin]

Bro why are you so aggressive?:)

We are just arguing

[balmy folio]

Their Hearts are sealed actually wHat can we do the m if they don't want to understand

[meager basin]

I would be happy if Muhammad shares his ideas

[balmy folio]

?

[meager basin]

@balmy folio i also do live in country which population is mainly muslims

[torpid dirge]

Ok man sry ...

[meager basin]

And my older descendants were also muslims

[meager basin]

It's okay man

[balmy folio]

Now

[meager basin]

Yes my parents are also

But i have so many doubts

[balmy folio]

I will read them

[torpid dirge]

Where do u live ?

[meager basin]

Azerbaijan

[balmy folio]

Share them

[meager basin]

Which is totally secular country

[meager basin]

Previously it's about evolution and religion

[balmy folio]

I understand

[pastel barn]

Good luck with it

[meager basin]

There maybe evolution by God

And also by nothing or nobody

Just evaluate to higher levels with only knowledge

[balmy folio]

Good idea, I'm researching on it also

[meager basin]

And then several people would like to not trust someone or

Or live under someone's power

And to manage them

There would be special idea

[balmy folio]

Islam gave that idea already

[meager basin]

How to manage those people who are under my control?

To create religion, to create scare?

[balmy folio]

How?

[meager basin]

But it must be something special like nobody can argue it

Or nobody can share about it

Or not criticize, just to worship it

[balmy folio]

You can discuss about it

[meager basin]

Yes, i'm doing with you

I'm sharing my doubts

[balmy folio]

You can think about it, why you have to follow blindly

Think why hadith have this what is its commandment, why is it said

This force you to reason its good

[meager basin]

Oh, man! How many people do just worship without investigation

[balmy folio]

Not everyone can do everything everyone don't worship too

[torpid dirge]

That's why it's predominantly 96% population muslim country

[meager basin]

But it is useful for now also, not?

Minority of muslims do investigate

[balmy folio]

Thunking is part of Islam

[meager basin]

But most the people who really research about it they switch their religion,

[meager basin]

Islam's first word is READ

But do afghans really read?

Most*

[balmy folio]

Imam Jaffar Sadiq, Imam Abu Hanifa

[balmy folio]

There are others too

[meager basin]

I'm going to research about them

[balmy folio]

We can do together if you want

[meager basin]

It would be good, but it would be another day

[balmy folio]

Sure

[mystic bay]

Aristotle, naturally

Even though he is not the easiest to read

(although he is worth learning Greek for)

[prisma cipher]

Good joke

[mystic bay]

https://tenor.com/view/i-cant-even-squidward-bad-mood-gif-15261804

[feral river]

Such a developed state in one of the SSRs

How’s in there

Have you enjoyed under that oil field in your capital

[rose eagle]

Vietnam when their national football team wins the match

It was quite like a big riot.

[manic juniper]

Did they shoot fireworks?

[rose eagle]

They shot something like a flare.

[formal pilot]

I miss flare

[shy summit]

They’re summoning more dps

[molten laurel]

ded

[dire aurora]

Is world war good or bad

How

Ppl will get a chance to play PUBG in real life

[verbal torrent]

🤡

[dire aurora]

Yeah u r right

[worn sonnet]

Hi there, I'm ismael from Morocco exactly in Casablanca, I'm a web developer, I want to make friends (who know to code) and improve my English thank you.

[dapper laurel]

He introduced a new way of debating, a hybrid debating with AI, something innovative ofc

[meager siren]

I am looking for a U.S. friend

[balmy folio]

Hey Ismael

[balmy folio]

@meager basin
"Islam is not just a religion of rituals and prayers; it is a complete way of life. It addresses the individual and the collective, the spiritual and the material, guiding Muslims in all aspects of their existence."

[cloud moat]

Hi 👋

[meager basin]

Yes, but we have developed primarily thanks to oil over decades.

[meager basin]

Almost the same situation like the other eastern european post-soviet states

[meager basin]

Quote is great, i wish all the muslims behave according to that rule

[balmy folio]

"That knowledge is no knowledge, O wine-cup,
Which teaches the secrets of slavery and strips away originality."

[balmy folio]

they will

[meager basin]

If they would act like this, Islamic world would be totally different..

[balmy folio]

I agree

[meager basin]

That's enigma man. Human is so interesting, so who can know what is going to happen due to humanous behaviour

[balmy folio]

yeah

[native mango]

[mystic bay]

@balmy folio Do you consider Islam to be a political religion?

[balmy folio]

There is a political Islam

What are your thoughts on it?

[balmy folio]

Political Islam is different from I SI s or terrorism

Thats a view point of scholar

[mystic bay]

I don't have a view on it. I was just wondering if the Quran dictates a certain political philosophy or an approach to violence.

[ocean galleon]

Islam is a way of life, not politics or something

[balmy folio]

I will ask and tell you about it

[mystic bay]

Ok

[dapper laurel]

Sometimes this "way of life" can also influence politics, don't you think?

This is the reason why most Muslim states are not secular

[mystic bay]

My understanding is that Islam had a 'militant' dimension since the beginning, even during Muhammed's own lifetime

[native mango]

Generally terrorism is haram
Blowing yourself up is haram
Killing innocent haram
And there are also rules for war
We can't kill womens, unarmed, innocent, monks, elders and kids
We can't cut trees
We can't burn anything
We can't steal
We can't betray
We have to treat prisoners well as we treat orphans and poor
We can't play with the dead body
@mystic bay

[manic juniper]

Judaism is like that too, the Messiah is supposed to be a political figure. To Samaritans he is a warrior of sort too

It was a monotheist revival movement

[native mango]

There are proofs from the Quran and Hadith for that if you want @mystic bay

[manic juniper]

"generally terrorism is haram" it isn't at times?

[native mango]

?

[manic juniper]

"Generally" means "most of the times/on average" this implies that there are exceptions

[native mango]

I didn't mean that

It's my bad English

[dapper laurel]

It seems just common sense, nothing special, it should be the normality for all people

[native mango]

I don't see anyone doing it

Except us

[formal pilot]

What do you mean by us in modern era?

[native mango]

Who follow Islam (they aren't the most )

Let's say believers only

[formal pilot]

I was asking for spesific organisation or country

[native mango]

Not all Muslims

[formal pilot]

Normality eh? Don't you belong to the land of Roman Empire

[dapper laurel]

Normality outside our great Roman empire

With the new consuls we are making progress

We are about to abolish slavery

[formal pilot]

Apparently Romans were better at treating slaves than other empires

[native mango]

I didn't see any Europe country doing good things in war like what Islam said

[dapper laurel]

War is war

[native mango]

But you said it's normal

[dapper laurel]

Even Islamic countries haven't done good things in war

[formal pilot]

Everyone committed atrocities

Islam is no exception

[native mango]

Then search

[dapper laurel]

I said "it should be the normality"

[dapper laurel]

.

[native mango]

I'm just saying that what you said means it's not something special

[eternal crystal]

Hi guys

[radiant haven]

Hi

[blissful steppe]

hi

[radiant haven]

hello

[blissful steppe]

how r u guys going

https://tenor.com/view/jjk-yuji-dead-chat-anime-discord-gif-580317875425780415

[ocean galleon]

doesn't matter, if u can leave peacefully that's all

[safe dirge]

lmao

[tight carbon]

Good morning, I have a question for you regarding whether there are any more help people here, if you could recommend me some free to play games from Steam because I'm looking for multiplayer games to randomly select players from the genres mmo rpg, otawert world schootery etc.: practically all of them except farming, but not cs ,valorant,fortntie League of legends I played the well-known ones and got bored of them, can someone more knowledgeable give me some advice or advise me to look at them differently? when there will be sales of cheap games on Steam and then buy that particular game

[thin ridge]

albion online is a good game

you can try black desert as well

[severe arch]

Umm why you not waited for fc25 discount?

[tight carbon]

and something else but cs, valorant, league of legends, fortnite, etc.: would you advise waiting for game promotions when there are sales on steam and then buy something more interesting because you don't have many free to play multiplayer games in your library, that randomness will choose someone

[tight carbon]

and something else but cs, valorant, league of legends, fortnite, etc.: would you advise waiting for game promotions when there are sales on steam and then buy something more interesting because you don't have many free to play multiplayer games in your library, that randomness will choose someone

[severe arch]

Alright alright

[thin ridge]

you meant NOT cs valorant etc?

[tight carbon]

I have this game and game 5, Battlefield, the new part, what would you advise me to do now, because in January there will be various discount game festivals on Steam, I should hunt for them

[severe arch]

Hei guys, if some of you guys in this server are korean can you guys tell me what hapoened with the K Netz?

Because i heard in many many news that the Knetz curse the stewardess because they "safe" from Jeju air accident?

[tight carbon]

I meant Valorant, CS, League of Legends, Fortnite, I was playing these games, I got bored, I lost a lot

[thin ridge]

you might try marvel rivals

or just get better at the games

[tight carbon]

and you're good at this Marvel Rivals game, and you don't have enough free to play games on Steam in your library, exactly for my preferences, multiplayer, that it will match me with someone to play with, as I mentioned, would you advise me to buy the games on a discount promotion, I write well

[thin ridge]

i think i am misunderstanding you

[tight carbon]

and you're good at this Marvel Rivals game, and you don't have enough free to play games on Steam in your library, exactly for my preferences, multiplayer, that it will match me with someone to play with, as I mentioned, would you advise me to buy the games on a discount promotion, I write well

[tight carbon]

because I need a multiplayer game to randomly select players, but not the games I mentioned and asked if you have this new Marvel game and if many people play it on Steam

[thin ridge]

marvel rivals is #3 by online on steam right now

[tight carbon]

is it good, do you play it, is it multiplayer and will it match my preferences, does it have any other games in it, can you suggest me any other games or if you look at your Steam game library you have, do you have most of the paid games?

[thin ridge]

yeah its good
yes i play it
yes its multiplayer
it might match your preferences

my steam library is mostly paid games

[thorny steeple]

heya

[tight carbon]

and for free, but when game sales get closer, would you advise me to buy specific games from Steam because January, February 2025 and the following months will be the festival

[thin ridge]

yes marvel rivals is free

i dont really know any paid games that you might like

[tight carbon]

because if promotions for games will be organized at festivals, as I mentioned in January, February 2025, would you advise taking advantage of them? Now there will be a festival of strategic games, there I will find multiplayer games tailored to my preferences. I will write and ask how old you are, because I am thirty and I am a good person?

[thin ridge]

what do you mean by promotions

sales?

[tight carbon]

but you have some paid ones, you couldn't check your Steam library, unless you have multiplayer

[tight carbon]

discounts on games on steam that are reduced

[tight carbon]

tell me how old you are because I said so?

[thin ridge]

my games would not match your preferences

[tight carbon]

tell me how old you are because I said so?

[thin ridge]

why would you want to know

[tight carbon]

alep, you suggested marvel rivlas one game for me on steam

[thin ridge]

yes i did

[tight carbon]

because I said you are younger than me, I am cultured

[thin ridge]

yes i am younger, i think you need to improve your english a bit

[tight carbon]

I'll just say it and I can see that you're nice non Toxic

[tight carbon]

I know English well, better than you, but you offered me the chance to play Marvel Rivals on Steam, it's free on PC, but when I start playing it, I have to choose the singleplayer mode, will the server immediately match it to me, and what is an open-source MMO RPG game? The world, as I mentioned, or the atmosphere of Diablo 4, etc.:

[solemn grotto]

yes

[tight carbon]

I wrote to you, reply me

[thin ridge]

i think you wanted multiplayer games

marvel rivals has only multiplayer

[balmy folio]

Terrorism all sort of is haram

@manic juniper

[balmy folio]

Islam itself have principles for poltical system

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Geneva_Convention

[balmy folio]

When Jesus A.S will be back he will also fight a war

[manic juniper]

Source?

[pallid cairn]

Hey mates, Could you send me a record voice for pronunciation of "750 English Oak Dr, Hinesville, Liberty, GA, United States". It should be American Native pronunciation. Thanks.

[balmy folio]

According to Quran and Hadith, Quran and Hadith don't command to kill innocents people, even if you have to go to war you have to warn them then war will start, you cannot even hide and attack before announcing war

[bronze void]

Hi everyone , I am good at python and dsa , I am looking for someone who is fluent in english , I can teach python and dsa and return you can teach me english , it would be like a skills exchange , if anyone interested please dm e

[ocean galleon]

now a days you can also ask ai🤧

[manic juniper]

So it's fine to start a war as long as you warn the invaded country

[manic juniper]

AI sucks

[ocean galleon]

lol, then don't ever use any sort of ai

[manic juniper]

I won't

[balmy folio]

you have to give them warning and options first negeotiate if they want to attack dont surrender then fight

[manic juniper]

Doesn't this make it justified to take land from a weaker country as long as they are forced to negotiate though? Imagine if Austria declared war on Liechtenstein, a nation the size of a town. How are they going to get a fair peace treaty?

[balmy folio]

Muslims can attack if their govt is cruel, not giving rights to citizens, if the nation call for help, Muslims cant attack for money, land and any other benifits, if they do thats their personal will not part of Islam its not justified.

Also if they surrender, they will not be hurt not a single citizen they will live by Islamic laws

[manic juniper]

Where is that said

[balmy folio]

There are political principles

[manic juniper]

Don't Islamic laws force people to pay extra taxes if they are not Muslims, and they cannot participate in politics and the military

[severe arch]

I think its not psrt of the islamic law,

If we bacj to that time, the taxes that the non moslem must pay to us, is the country who got taken by islamic country

[dapper laurel]

This is why nowadays European countries like Albania and Bosnia Herzegovina are Muslim majority

[balmy folio]

Prohibition of Aggression: Muslims are commanded not to be aggressors. Fighting is only permissible in defense or against oppression.
Quran 2:190:
"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors."

Protection of Non-Combatants: The Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) forbade harming women, children, the elderly, and non-combatants.
Hadith (Bukhari, 3015):
"Do not kill women or children or non-combatants."

When enemies seek peace or surrender, fighting must cease.
Quran 8:61:
And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and rely upon Allah."

Kindness to Captives: The Prophet treated captives with dignity and encouraged their humane treatment.
Quran 76:8-9:
"And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive, [saying], 'We feed you only for the countenance of Allah. We wish not from you reward or gratitude.'"

Ransom or Release: Captives could be freed through ransom or goodwill.
Quran 47:4:
"Then, either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens."

[dapper laurel]

They didn't want to pay taxes

[balmy folio]

After the conquest of Mecca, the Prophet forgave his former enemies who surrendered.
Hadith (Ibn Hisham, Seerah):
"Go, for you are free."

Fair Treatment: In the Battle of Badr, prisoners were treated kindly and were offered food equal to what Muslims ate.
Seerah Reference:
"Treat the prisoners well." (Musnad Ahmad 22241)

[balmy folio]

Non Muslims pay Jizya and Muslims Zakat, if govt need money then the richers from both community pay tax not poor, the tax are equal

[manic juniper]

In the case of Bosnia it's kind of complicated, it was also the fault of Christians (both Orthodox and Catholics) because they saw the Bosnian church as heretical

But yes, it often was done in order to achieve more power, in fact the second largest ethnicity of rulers in the Ottoman Empire was Albanian right after Turkish

It's also because Ottomans mostly kidnapped and enslaved Christians in Europe

[balmy folio]

No they didn

[severe arch]

Excuse me, where you find this issue?

[balmy folio]

Islamic law historically required non-Muslims under Muslim rule to pay jizya (a tax) in exchange for protection and exemption from military service, as noted in Quran 9:29. However, they retained religious freedom and could participate in certain aspects of governance depending on the context. This system was not a blanket oppression but a reciprocal arrangement common

[severe arch]

Literalry there is no clue the moslem goverment back then enskaved the christisn

[manic juniper]

Lmfao yes they did, it literally is medieval European history. Christians did the same, they enslaved Muslims and then both Muslims and Christians traded happily together in Crimea

[manic juniper]

Janissaries? What are those? Devshirme?

[severe arch]

It is like war hostages trader?

[manic juniper]

Nope, they were slaves to work in camps or to serve the nobility, sometimes to serve in wars as cannon fodder or slave soldiers

[balmy folio]

"kidnapping and enslaving Christians" is oversimplified and ignores historical context. The devshirme system, was a levy of children for state service, where they were educated, trained, and rose to prominent positions—some even becoming grand viziers.

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_slave_trade

[balmy folio]

Non-Muslims held significant roles in Ottoman administration, including diplomacy and commerce.
Jews expelled from Spain in 1492 were welcomed into the Ottoman Empire and given safe haven.
Ottoman courts ensured that Christians and Jews could seek justice under Islamic law, which recognized their religious and civil rights.

[manic juniper]

After being kidnapped from their families... Right. Imagine if I started human trafficking in a poor, war thorn country but it's all fine because I am selling those children to wealthy families where they won't suffer

[balmy folio]

Your comparison is flawed of historical context. The devshirme system wasn't "human trafficking" but a state recruitment policy where children were trained, educated, and given opportunities to rise to the highest ranks of power far removed from exploitation. Many families voluntarily offered their children for better prospects, and some of these children became prominent leaders like Grand Vizier Sokollu Mehmed Pasha. Unlike European practices of colonization and slavery, which **dehumanized and brutalized **millions, the Ottoman system integrated people into society and governance. If you’re calling this "trafficking," you should examine your own history first.

[manic juniper]

My history? Ottomans literally galloped all the way from the Pontic steppes to my country (when it didn't even exist yet) to kidnap poor villagers that had no way to defend themselves
https://mikedashhistory.com/2015/01/15/blonde-cargoes-finnish-children-in-the-slave-markets-of-medieval-crimea/

[formal pilot]

Canadian PM is giving resignation speech rn

[balmy folio]

Blaming the Ottomans for the Crimean slave trade shows ignorance of history it was the Crimean Tatars, semi-autonomous vassals, who conducted these raids, not Ottoman policy. The devshirme system, though controversial, was a state recruitment process that educated and elevated individuals, not enslavement.

[formal pilot]

Welcome to 2025

[manic juniper]

God and Allah being gracefully asleep while his followers are being friendly and cooperative for once

[dense agate]

2025 is having a good start

[balmy folio]

Meanwhile, European powers actively enslaved** millions **across continents through brutal transatlantic trade far more devastating than isolated raids. Before criticizing, perhaps review the centuries of European exploitation that shaped global suffering far more than the policies of one empire

[manic juniper]

I wonder who traded in Crimea? And what's the religion of Crimean Tatars...?

[dense agate]

something something barbery pirates
something something slaves

[formal pilot]

Yeah IDF soldier leaving brazil to not get arrested on committing war crimes was my fav so far

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Abductions LMFAOOO

[formal pilot]

Blud was on vacation

[dense agate]

what war crimes ?

[balmy folio]

The Crimean Tatars were Muslim, but their actions were driven by local power dynamics and profit, not Islamic teachings, Prophet Teachings or direct Ottoman orders. If you’re so eager to tie religion to every crime, let’s discuss how Christian European empires enslaved millions under explicitly Christian monarchies.

[dense agate]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-emoji-smiley-question-mark-confuse-gif-14650752829042982335

[manic juniper]

Yes they did, so did Muslims

Now what's your line of defence?

[shy summit]

Irrelevant

[dapper laurel]

Nothing ever happens

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-ever-happens-chud-chudjak-soyjak-90-seconds-to-nothing-gif-9277709574191520604

[balmy folio]

Muslims not Islam. but your actions were justified by the religion

[manic juniper]

The whole point was: religion isn't even important when it comes to these actions, because it never was against slavery and it never reformed or incentivised these people to stop slavery

[shy summit]

That just proves religion is just violent af

[manic juniper]

"Christians not Christianity"

[balmy folio]

Yeah Chrisitanity actually

[formal pilot]

"Participating in massive demolition of civilian homes in Gaza"

That was the quote

[shy summit]

And Islam and Judaism

[manic juniper]

"Christianity endorses slavery, but Islam doesn't. Only Muslims practiced it but it wasn't endorsed by Islam"

[balmy folio]

Jews actions aren;t by judaisim

[shy summit]

Bud, Israel…

[kind seal]

What's up here guyzzzz

[balmy folio]

they are zionist there are many jews that condemend that

[kind seal]

Can I also rub my tail here

[balmy folio]

no

[dapper laurel]

All religions have been violent, the Middle East is the birthplace of all major world religions, and, not coincidentally, is one of the areas where most of the wars and battles have occurred

[balmy folio]

Both Christianity and Islam existed in societies where slavery was a norm, but Islam regulated and encouraged abolition through manumission, while European powers institutionalized racial slavery for profit. Ignoring Islam's reforms while defending Europe's atrocities exposes your biased narrative.

[manic juniper]

I wonder if whatever the Australian aborigines believe in is violent or not, don't they just get high and have dreams on weird stuff and the beginning of existence

[balmy folio]

Religions are frequently misused. Comparing all religions as equally violent ignores the nuances of how faith has also driven peace, charity, and social justice throughout history.

[manic juniper]

How come they were the last countries to abolish slavery then? While Christian countries were the first ones

Muslim majority and Buddhist majority countries were the last to abolish slavery and indentured servitude

[dapper laurel]

Afghanistan is a great example of social justice

[manic juniper]

Also yes point out where I defended "Europe's" atrocities when I literally stated that Christians and Muslims were fine happily trading slaves together in Crimea

[formal pilot]

Saudis didn't even wanted to get rid of slavery

[manic juniper]

"Uh but you see, Europe bad and Christians bad, don't you agree?"
Yes, what now?
"Uh... Ehm... You are defending Europe"

https://tenor.com/view/captain-qwark-gif-23052368

[balmy folio]

Afghanistan's situation today is the result of decades of conflict, foreign intervention, and political instability, not a reflection of Islamic social justice principles.

Social justice is a universal principle, not confined to one country or religion.

[kind seal]

Lol slavery was never related to relegion

[dapper laurel]

It's all the white man's fault, as always

[manic juniper]

I'm pretty sure that he is an AI recycling the same sentences and didn't expect my reaction

[balmy folio]

any doubt

[dapper laurel]

But you see, they could have adopted a more liberal political and economic system, which would have benefited their population, while they chose to follow the most extreme interpretations of Islam

Even Europe, destroyed after the Second World War, could have chosen a similar path, but we used common sense

[balmy folio]

so

[formal pilot]

Everyone around the globe was committing atrocities, white folks were just little good at it

[manic juniper]

Not even most of them, just few

[formal pilot]

Yeah few were exceptionally good

[manic juniper]

Most of them were living under empires, either European or not, where most people may not have been even represented like Finns not being able to use their language to participate in any institution until the late 19th century

[dapper laurel]

Ultimately it is their collective imagination of the Western world, they will say all the same thing

[manic juniper]

If you didn't speak Swedish you had no ground to make any request to the local administration, let alone the central one in Sweden

[dapper laurel]

Well, yes, I admit it, it's true

[formal pilot]

Btw if you want to beat AI, argue about LGBT
This method works every single time

[manic juniper]

Yes, they can think whatever, my country was an agrarian shithole and it improved in the past century, meanwhile they can live in the delusions of their past being so great and progressive

[manic juniper]

I can't wait for AIs to use the lizard argument

[balmy folio]

History teaches us that the strength of a nation is not in its wealth or military,
But in its ability to stay true to its values and spiritual vision.

~Iqbal

[manic juniper]

Second country to give universal voting rights 💅🏻 first in Europe

[formal pilot]

Any example of poor strong nation?

[balmy folio]

The history of the Muslims is a mirror of their own souls,
If they have the vision, they can reshape their fate with their will.
~Iqbal

[manic juniper]

One of the first countries to institute social welfare and worker unions, social democracy (not ideal but better than most systems)

[balmy folio]

China communist party is better than democracy in Europe

[dapper laurel]

Then they will say that your country got rich through colonialism (Finland never had colonies, but has been repeatedly conquered by Sweden, Russia and Denmark to a lesser extent)

[manic juniper]

Is this why the rich Chinese kids study and live in the West?

[formal pilot]

Blud started quoting urdu poet 💀

[manic juniper]

China is great but uh they prefer Switzerland and USA I guess

[manic juniper]

We were a colony for like 200-300 years 😎

We only fully decolonised because the Russian Empire mistakenly funded the Finnboos amongst the Swedish nobility not predicting that they'd still try and achieve independence

[formal pilot]

How?

[dapper laurel]

Allah says so

[formal pilot]

Muslim saying china is better than europe is mad

[manic juniper]

The Uyghurs agree

[dapper laurel]

Even Minecraft would agree

[formal pilot]

I believe Europe is decades ahead of USA in terms of social values [i don't have any source, it's bro-science]

[manic juniper]

There are things that I envy from Eastern Europe even if it's deemed less developed than Western Europe

[dapper laurel]

Yes and no, I still believe in the American dream

[manic juniper]

Besides Spain, most Eastern European countries treat their minorities better than Western European countries do

[dapper laurel]

Then you should know my father to see the greatness of European social values

[manic juniper]

Even Serbia despite hating Albanians isn't bad to the Rusyns

[lunar ivy]

USA,
Scandinavia is too cold.
But I like both because the tall handsome guys in Scandinavia

[manic juniper]

Nooo Switzerland, it's in Central/Western Europe. Sweden is the Scandinavian one

[lunar ivy]

Oh🤣

[manic juniper]

There aren't many Chinese immigrants in Switzerland because immigrating there is extremely difficult to anyone that isn't a Schengen citizen

It's also tiny compared to Japan and USA

[lunar ivy]

Sigh, countries like France is being occupied by black people

[dapper laurel]

Now even a Bulgarian could easily emigrate to Switzerland

[manic juniper]

True, we really overcame all barriers in 2025

Besides Ireland of course, they don't like Schengen

[dapper laurel]

Since Romania joined the Schengen area I keep my wallet safe

[manic juniper]

Get ready to see news like these

[dapper laurel]

Only the Balkans will understand

[lunar ivy]

Another thing is that Europe doesn't speak much English.
Those Scandinavian guys make me drool all the time.

[elder seal]

🤨

[formal pilot]

It's scam

[elder seal]

It's mad funny

[manic juniper]

Honestly same with Baltic guys to me but some of them look like the ninja turtles

[lunar ivy]

Baltic? Arab?

[elder seal]

Baltics are pretty white

[manic juniper]

No, Baltic countries (tiny countries in northeastern Europe)
Like Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia

[cinder wind]

Sup dead chat

[formal pilot]

Must be pakistani eh, after getting loans from china

[elder seal]

Getting loans while getting your women bought up by some Chinese billionaire

[formal pilot]

Estonia is arab of Europe btw

[manic juniper]

Malta: sigh

[cinder wind]

Guys I heard , china invented a new virus again

[elder seal]

What, when

[cinder wind]

I just heard it from the news just 2 hrs ago

[elder seal]

Oh yea, that's been going on for months - Have they only begun reporting on it now?

I heard about this shit like last year

[formal pilot]

Tbh if I was a woman I would sell myself to a Chinese billionaire, there's nothing wrong in it

Can't work my whole life to pay stupid bills

[manic juniper]

Are they old and decrepit tho

[elder seal]

Well, it's the parents taking a few bucks and giving their daughters to the chinese billionaires

[formal pilot]

Even better

[elder seal]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/5/more-than-600-pakistani-girls-sold-as-brides-to-china

[formal pilot]

They'll probably have a better life

[elder seal]

No clue - Just know it happens

[manic juniper]

Speedrun

[formal pilot]

What's your views on it

Based on your morality

[elder seal]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bride-trafficking-pakistan-china-samiya-david-death-a9243661.html Uhm

[formal pilot]

[dapper laurel]

That is Spain or Southern Italy

[formal pilot]

Aight lemme read it

[elder seal]

Doesn't sound like a better life tbh

[dapper laurel]

Cyprus too

Even Greece

[formal pilot]

Waiting for France to get added

[dapper laurel]

At this point let's add Germany and the UK too

Even Sweden

[manic juniper]

No way, Germany is West Turkestan, UK is Northwest South Asia

[formal pilot]

That's really sad, they often sell em in china on pretext of marriage

For prostituition

[elder seal]

Yea. It's not a surprise, just sad

[formal pilot]

That makes sense now

Otherwise I was shocked to see this woman getting married to a chinese billionaire, they're really racist most of the times

I don't know how to say it more politely

[elder seal]

It's okay, just a boy

[formal pilot]

Na i don't think so, European countries have a really great education system which promotes rationality

[dapper laurel]

Yeah, but Malmö is pretty Arab now

[native mango]

What's that

[formal pilot]

Just googled it, it has 25-30% muslim population

Eventually new gen will become agnostic/ atheist

[elder seal]

Religion weights a lot higher among arabs in europe than arabs in the middle east

[manic juniper]

It's difficult when Sweden dumped all of them in the same blocks

[dapper laurel]

When I was there, in a skatepark there were only, I think, two Swedish guys from what I noticed. The new generations will be more and more Muslim going forward

[manic juniper]

In France it's the opposite, they are more spread out and you can see the results: they really turn to atheism, some even to Christianity (granted it's very few like 6% of them but still crazy)

I recall seeing 30-40% of them being atheists

[elder seal]

Christian groups should be taken with a grain of salt - It's because it grants them cultural immunities; in Sweden you had a person larping as a christian after doing a crime to be given less weight by the jury

[formal pilot]

I just can't see any religion surviving this era without reforms

[dapper laurel]

Can this really happen in Sweden? If so , it's delusional

[elder seal]

Sweden is delusional - It's an old case, 2015

[manic juniper]

Idk about using religion but you can plead to insanity

[formal pilot]

Some believe their religion is the same as it was at the time of creation

But it's not true

[dapper laurel]

No way lol, poor Sweden

[formal pilot]

Lmao yeah I've seen more progressive muslims from iran than south asia

[elder seal]

I've known a lot of Iranians - Iranians tend to be very progressive in Europe; like,their "Islam" is just feeling, then they go around having s*xual relationships with white dudes and drinking alcohol

[formal pilot]

It's unavoidable, they'll reform the religion or it'll disappear

[elder seal]

Arabs and Turks are bit more fundamental in their religiousity here

at least from my experience

[formal pilot]

Goddammmmit I've high hopes

[formal pilot]

Well shias in general are more progressive

[elder seal]

Tend to be more agnostic too - It's probably to do with the strictness of the religion in Iran's government; sort of like a catholic-girl raised in catholic school type situation

[manic juniper]

Turkey sent their worst, maybe the Arab countries did too

Many Turks in Europe are minorities that live isolated from Turkish society already, or they are from the East where they are more conservative

I mean it makes sense, why would Turkey send the people that contribute the most to Germany when they could depopulate the least developed regions of the country

[elder seal]

Depends. I've had good relationships with some Turkish girls. Though, Turks can be very progressive here too. Though, I mostly know those of middle income background; so religion is only relevant for some of them here

[dapper laurel]

Aren't Turks with good educational backgrounds usually the ones who immigrate to Europe?

[manic juniper]

I don't know, not in my experience, even according to Turks from Turkey they usually aren't

But they are still less attached to their background than most immigrants

[dapper laurel]

For example, in Germany, if you don't have a good education, you have no hope of finding a lucrative job

[manic juniper]

Germany needed a lot of unskilled workers as well, wasn't that the whole point of making their immigration easier?

[elder seal]

Most of those we got here were construction workers and low skilled jobs, so not really

[dapper laurel]

Now the economic situation in Germany is quite different, it is no longer the Merkel era, the Merkelreich is over. The economic recession has begun, the auto industry has cut some jobs and many have to resort to private agencies to have a full pension. If you come to Germany without even a degree, it's over for you

It's also one of the reasons why the far right leads the polls

[elder seal]

Don't know how much it matter if you're Turkish - The discussion isn't about Turkey, but foreign workers who are of Turkish background

[dapper laurel]

Here we have the kebab sellers, mostly

But I think that the next immigrant generation has more skills

[elder seal]

Where in Turkey are you from anyways?

[dapper laurel]

Because advanced economies demand nore skills today

[thorny steeple]

I just wrote randomly, didn't see the messages above

[elder seal]

Ooh, that's nice - I've always wanted to visit Istanbul again

[thorny steeple]

Again, I just wrote it randomly

[elder seal]

Lmao - Jumping from continent to continent 🫡

[manic juniper]

Mr. Worldwide

[elder seal]

I mean - Istanbul is a trans-continental city

So what you studying anywho?

Oh god - Condolences 😭

[languid dawn]

Oh mathematics is good

I respect people who learn math as their major

[stoic cedar]

Knock Knock

[languid dawn]

That’s cool

[languid dawn]

Who’s there

[crude widget]

Oh that was my minor

[stoic cedar]

The Undertaker'

[languid dawn]

What’s your major

[elder seal]

Respect them - It just sounds like pain

[languid dawn]

Kkkkk of course painful

At least for me

[crude widget]

Electrical engineering

[languid dawn]

Sounds cool 2

[balmy folio]

ok

nice

[languid dawn]

Good luck

Is that hard?

[balmy folio]

I like mathematics

yeah

[languid dawn]

How’d someone like mathematics!!!!!!!! I don’t understand

[balmy folio]

Mashallah

[languid dawn]

🙂‍↔️

[elder seal]

You don't - Just torture yourself

Pathogoryean spotted

[crude widget]

Easy

[languid dawn]

Do mathematics guys looks nerdy?

Is it a universal thing?

[elder seal]

It's a school of Greek mathematics that thought everything was made of numbers

[balmy folio]

Physics is weak spot, mathematics is kinda strong

[languid dawn]

Do you know anyone who looks sexy and studies math?

[balmy folio]

i'm in mathematics with cs

[elder seal]

Debatable. I'm not too well-versed in Aristotle, but our local Aristotlean might go into the criticism he had of the subject

[balmy folio]

where are you from? @elder seal

[elder seal]

Denmark

[balmy folio]

its not my majore

Without mathematics i can't be a good engineer

I'm trying to have a strong grip on it

[elder seal]

I'm familiar - though not too familiar with Aristotle's critique

[balmy folio]

Pakistan

"Mathematics measures the visible and finite,
But the infinite realm of the soul is beyond its light."

[dapper laurel]

They also thought that positive things were connected to odd numbers and negative things to even numbers, it's just a schizo yap

[dapper laurel]

All this because they represented numbers with pebbles or shi

[elder seal]

I mean - Within the context of the time, it made sense. Even today it's a fairly common belief among mathematicians given everything fundamentally is related through some quantity

[balmy folio]

oh nice

[dapper laurel]

Yes, but on these assumptions they behaved like a sect

[elder seal]

Aristotle's chief argument was that the numbers are 'abstracted away' from reality; so it's not that reality is made up of numbers, but numbers refered through reality

[elder seal]

Depends on the group. The Mathematician group was less religious than tthe fundamentalists

[dapper laurel]

The worst is Plato

[elder seal]

Don't know why he's 'the worst'

[dapper laurel]

Even if he is not a Pythagorean

[elder seal]

I quite like Plato

[dapper laurel]

I don't know, he believes in innate ideas, it's a thought very far from my logic

I won't say it doesn't make sense, it's just not close to my way of thinking

[elder seal]

The idea is merely that everything that exist persist through forms; so this tree, and that tree, are both 'trees' presupposing a transcendental form of the tree.

Not really - Only in my own field of sociology; political science; political economy and recently gotten myself into metaphysics

Only mathematics I'm familiar with is statistics

[elder seal]

Aristotle's critique of these is that trees are merely abstracted away from properties shared between two particulars; so the form is merely an object of similarity and distinction. A recent countercritique is Frege's idea of transcendental abstract object-class; specifically that if we deprive physical and mental properties from reality, is it true that ther's neither of those; if yes, we've already presupposed a transcendental property

[dapper laurel]

Ok, I agree, but this is the collective imagination of tree. I remember when my teacher told my classmate to draw a house on the blackboard and then said that that representation was similar to the others she asked in the past, that's just collective imagination, we aren't born with an idea of what a tree is or what a house looks like

Everything we know is given by experiences

[elder seal]

That's a strawman of the theory of forms, and probably because your teacher conflates the term "idea" with a mental object

The term 'abstract object' or 'idea' here is merely a non-physical and non-mental object

[dapper laurel]

She's a bad teacher btw

She tries to give practical examples because hopefully they will be more understandable

But this discredits all the abstraction that can be behind great reasoning

This is why I don't believe in innate ideas, after all

[elder seal]

The reasoning given by Plato was that of identity; a tree is a tree, a drawing of a tree is a tree, hence, we're presuppsoing something that's "just a tree" or a "perfect tree" - A critique herein is often given to Aristotle, though is derivative of Plato's "parmenides," that if a tree is a tree, then is that tree a tree, so is there another perfect tree before it? And so into infinity; the third man argument as it's called.

It's debatable how strong it is through, a lot of countercriticism arose through the 20th century

Counter criticism is that 'this tree' is not 'that tree' but they're both 'trees' so that assumes something that's "just a tree," we don't necessarily need a '3rd man' because the two first trees are objects of participation; while the 'form of the tree' is one of identity

[dapper laurel]

Could you recommend me a good book on this?

[elder seal]

A better example is the form of the good; if we say something is Good, we assume it partakes of Goodness; which assumes Goodness-as-such. But is the form of the Good, Good? Third man argument willsay if we accept, it must reduce it to an infinite regress. But Wittgenstein criticized the third man argument here, as he argued it conflates adjective with identity; the form of the good isn't "good," but the good. It bears the identity of goodness and is identical to itself, but does not partake of itself

[elder seal]

I can recommend a study. https://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/VlastosTMA.pdf

[dapper laurel]

Thanks bro

[elder seal]

He specifically unbundles the argument into several logics, and then notes that the third man argument isn't even warranted

[dapper laurel]

Can't log in, I'll try again later

[elder seal]

It's titled "the third man argument in Parmenides" by Gregory Vlastos

from 1954

[mystic bay]

1954

That's practically as old as Plato

[elder seal]

I mean; true! - In philosophy that's like a week ago 😭

a lot of high profile philosophers are like 100s of years old

Most recent philosophers I'm familiar with is R. Scruton who died in 2020 and Grant Maxwell who's latest publishing is 2022 - as in books

so granted, depends on your interest area

A book I often recommend to people is Scruton's "sexual desire," if you're interest in ethics, ontology and the sort @mystic bay

You can scroll down - They're not really 'marrying,' they're promising marriage and gives money, and then prostitute the girls out to make money

It comes from the girls themselves - Some being found half-dead

Right, 600 women lied about it - I don't know what 'wrong information' you're talking about, one of them died with clear signs of malnourishment and sa after having being sold off to a Chinese man a few years after

Can you type their names?
This is disingenuous.

This is a report of around 600 women

They were of rich backhgrounds to be able to afford them.

Why's that relevant?

You do realize they're not named due to defamation laws

It's an entirely irrelevant question to begin with

I can give you one example:

In this May 22, 2019 photo, Sumaira a Pakistani woman, shows a picture of her Chinese husband in Gujranwala, Pakistan. Sumaira, who didn't want her full name used, was raped repeatedly by Chinese men at a house in Islamabad where she was brought to stay after her brothers arranged her marriage to an older Chinese man.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/human-trafficking-pakistani-officials-claim-pakistan-women-married-men-in-china-sold-into-prostitution/

https://tenor.com/view/missthepoint-the-point-gif-7984004

if you think rich people have some special innate characteristics that means they don't do this, sure

Pakistan became a focus of Chinese marriage brokers last year and activists say that since then as many as 1,000 women and girls have been married off to Chinese men. Most of the women are from Pakistan's small Christian community, who are among the country's most desperately poor.** Brokers offer families cash to give their daughters as brides, promising them well-off Chinese husbands who would give them a good life.**

The point is that they're sold off to chinese men under the promise of payment and forced into prostitution - their income is entirely trivial.

Many of these men are portrayed as rich and millionaires; many of them are merely a part of a larger trafficking network.

Again - Trivial information.

Okay, and?

Why's this relevant to the subject matter?

[mystic bay]

Sounds gross

[elder seal]

I mean - It's a conservative piece, it's not like a condonoment of anything, merely an analysis of the subject through the lens of Kantian ethics and metaphysics; specifically Husserl's phenomenology

His chief argument is a distinction between embodiment and intentional embodiment - So that, a person is both their body and in their body; for Scruton the latter case is an object of desire for a person, while desire in terms of the body is brought up through substitution; I might desire your body, but not you, hence, I regard you merely as an object that is replaceable between people of similar characteristics

The book's fairly decent, honestly. Most critiques I found to be unsatisfactory; only one I found decent is 'I might desire their pleasure,' but then it invites the question "Do I desire their pleasure because it's them or because I merely desire the pleasure of some abstracted person?"

Because if the latter, we're still merely desiring the pleasure of some abstraction; they're merely a tool towards that end

[mystic bay]

Gross

[elder seal]

😭 Fuck you mean "gross"!?

Nuh-uh, you 🫵🏻

[elder seal]

Just fyi as well - The reason why she probably thought the Platonic ideas are ideas in terms of mental properties is because the term "idealism" also means everything is made of mental properties; the issue with the terms is it's often-time not really about mental properties, but a tertiary sphere determining the mental-and-physical sphere; often known as 'the ground' or 'God' or 'Absolute.' That's at least true for Absolute-idealism and Platonic "idealism" (realism); transcendental idealism acknowledges both subject-and-object, but notes that subjects can only ascertain objects as they appear to us

[balmy folio]

The falcon never falls from the fatigue of its flight,
If you have resolve, no danger can harm your love for the cause.
@mystic bay

There are some rules for rulers which they have to abide in Islam

[elder seal]

🤨

[balmy folio]

life’s worth is not found in blind imitation of Western philosophies,
The path lies in nurturing the heart and spirit."

[elder seal]

I don't see why the one can't lead to the other

Most eastern philosophies indirectly relate to western philosophy

[balmy folio]

give example

[elder seal]

Sufiism; Ibn Sina; Sikhism

All of these are indirectly related to Plato, Aristotle and Plotinus

[balmy folio]

Ibn Sina and Sufisim really

Islamic

[elder seal]

Yes. Ibn Sina specifically stated his inspiration was Aristotle

[balmy folio]

inspiration is separate

[elder seal]

When your entire argumentation is build upon your reading of someone, inspiration is hardly separate.

And Sufiism's idea of "unity of being" comes from Plotinus, Plato and the Eleatic school

[balmy folio]

I love Jesus, read his teachings, I am writing poetry but dont mean that it realted to Jesus teachings

[balmy folio]

There is Ibn Arabi

[elder seal]

This is a false analogy.

[balmy folio]

but others dont agree on unity of being

[elder seal]

Ibn Arabi merely appropriated the idea of the one to fit islamic theology.

[balmy folio]

they dont agree on it

[elder seal]

Then he doesn't agree with unity of being.

which is the heart of Sufiism

And Ibn sina* entire argument for God is indirectly based on Aristotle's writing in physics while reinterpretating it through Plotinus; that's why his argument seems like a "confused" ontological argument. It's just a fusion of two philosophers that predate him

Because, to put it bluntly, what I've read of it, it just sounds like neoplatonism reworded

[elder seal]

Take Ibn Sina's "idea" of 'differentia' - that's Aristotles. Aristotle's works categories and metaphysics specifically.

I'd probably say the Ibn Arabi is a more egregious example of drawing on Greek authors; but that was common among every group during this time. It's not something new - So to say that "oh, you're reading greeks, boo" you must also automatically throw away a lot of islamic metaphysics*

[torpid dirge]

Yess but ibn Sina had his own critical perspective about nature philosophy

[elder seal]

Sure. I'm also not really arguing against any philosopher here. I'm just saying the idea of disregarding Western philosophers because they're western is stupid - Even most Arab and Iranian philosophers during the Islamic golden age would probably look at you weird if you told them that

Aristotle and Plato's contribution to most old-world philosophies, even new-worlds, isn't disputable. Greeks were far-ahead of their time in metaphysics, to the extent that a lot of their works is still relevant today

Very few authors can really be seen as comparable - Obviously in medieval western world we have Thomas Aquinas and in the east you got Ibn Khaldun etc., But if you read a lot of older authors in Greece, you'd quickly find a lot of their discussions are still debated today

[torpid dirge]

I haven't read ibn Sina and Aristotle epistemology but both had own self explanatory factor
Aristotle -: about knowledge
Ibn Sina :- who moddled Aristotle epistemology about the reasoning

I'm not sure ...though

[elder seal]

Yea - They're strongly related and worked and based on Aristotles. You can't find any large work during this time which wasn't at least impacted by the writings of Aristotles and Plato. An author I'd recommend is Ibn Khaldun; man's far beyond his time; I'd liken him to Giambasto Vico in terms of genius

both were generally unknown in their time but their works were only effectively recreated hundreds of years after

[elder seal]

😭

[torpid dirge]

What does that picture mean

[elder seal]

No clue - I'm not an artist. Nor is my concern art

[torpid dirge]

Aristotle epistemology about knowledge

Looks like

That pic

[elder seal]

🤷🏻‍♂️ I'm not concerned with epistemics either - Ontology chiefly. That's where i drew my distinction to

[torpid dirge]

And idk what that Even mean

[elder seal]

because that's the only form of metaphysics I can make any definitive voice on

All I know is - You can't talk philosophy without talking at least about Aristotle. Man's everywhere

[torpid dirge]

I think that pic has deep meaning about knowledge and experience

[elder seal]

A fun picture like this is the painting "the treachery of images"

It says "this is not a pipe"

It's a commentary on the theory of forms from Plato

[mystic bay]

Only the Form of a pipe is truly pipe

https://tenor.com/view/lll-gif-25636360

[elder seal]

Just fyi @balmy folio https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366544407_The_Oneness_of_Being_In_Ibn_'Arabi_and_Plotinus

[elder seal]

Socrates goes brr

[manic juniper]

He's one of those people that thinks anything vaguely "western" is bad or inferior

[elder seal]

Oh, that's funny - Granted, this prejudice exists even among western commentators; anything eastern is inferior. I just read whatever. Almost like two areas that's strongly interconnected will in some way cross-influence and define each other

[manic juniper]

Now I know nothing about philosophy but I'm sure that there would be middle grounds and things aren't as clear cut as they'd like

[elder seal]

Uhm 🤓 ☝🏻 https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground

[manic juniper]

Well no I was more talking of philosophies that aren't unambiguously eastern or western, but I don't know much on it

[elder seal]

I don't belive in middle grounds - I only believe in extremes. Either something is true, or it isn't true

[manic juniper]

It wasn't about extremes, simply about features

Just like having purple between red and blue

[torpid dirge]

Ancient athenians always beyond of time ....but the question is why ?

[elder seal]

A variety of reasons. I think a primary reason is they're one of the few groups who we have surviving fragments of due to the Romans; there's a lot to suggest that ancient Greeks drew a lot from Ancient Egypt, for instance

In a lot of commentaries on celtic mythology and druidic practices in ancient Britain, a lot suggests their philosophy was comparable to ancient Greece. But they only practiced it through verbal tradition, and not written

while ancient Egypt's writings essentially disappeared due to time

Specifically, the theory of forms likely arose from Egyptian notion of 'Maat.' The eleatic one and Platonic "Good" is likely inspired by Egyptian monotheistic (or henotheistic) god of Aten

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten

Specifically, there's always been a tendency of pagan and polytheists to move towards monotheism; Plato, Socrates and Aristotle were for all intends and purposes henotheistic

[torpid dirge]

And what about democracy , arcataicture and science?

[mystic bay]

Democracy is the worst thing the Greeks came up with

Whose bright idea was that?

[torpid dirge]

They weren't even 30 000 citizen ?

[elder seal]

Likely independently developed. Democracy in Athens worked differently from modern democracy; modern democracy is largely based on Rome

But then again - Democratic bodies has always existed in varying ways. In Ancient Germany, most bodies and agreements in society arose through communities getting together to vote on it, known as 'things'

[pastel barn]

Cleisthenes

[elder seal]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(assembly)

Tactitus specifically documents these formations. Roman "democracy" originate with the senate which was formed through a series of particians, who could advise the king and give formal agreement to matters - Often being of wealthy background

[shy summit]

This isn’t actually true

[elder seal]

Nice rebuttal.

[shy summit]

The categorical social science depict 4 categories on two axis

[elder seal]

This isn't even remotely a critique of what i said.

[shy summit]

Foreign and Domestic as well as positive and negative

Asians typically fall under the perception quadrant of Foreign positive

[elder seal]

😐

[shy summit]

This is white people’s perception of course

[elder seal]

So, you start up by arguing nonsense - then you go on to argue against a strawman. Interesting. Anywho, I'll leave the windbaggery to you

[shy summit]

Windbaggery…?

[elder seal]

I mean - The ancient Athenian democracy was strictly speaking structured through sortition as a modus operandi; that is, lottery over election

[elder seal]

In the sense you're just speaking for speaking's sake. That there's some eastern philosophy and authorship western authors like doesn't really change the point I've made. The point being that there is prejudice against eastern authorships, as demonstrated in the work orientalism

[shy summit]

It’s literally a major understanding within the realm of social sciences pertaining to race-politics and white identity & perception.

[elder seal]

That's cool - That doesn't make it right. And neither does it matter to the pretext I've stated.

Japan; Korea; Vietnam may be prefered - Does not make India, China or the Middle easter "liked"

You're essentially just saying nonsense to say it

[shy summit]

It’s how white perception typically categorizes out groups.

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying the idea that whites perceive asia as negative overall is incorrect

[elder seal]

’m saying the idea that whites perceive asia as negative overall is incorrect
This statement is generally disagreed with within social science; E. Said specifically has already demonstrated the correctness of my claim, that there's a strict bias against eastern authorship within social science, and without, which is generally speaking a consensus. That you may agree with critics of that work does not mean there's a consensus the way you're desperately attempting to convince us of

At least within post-colonial studies, the general consensus is that western authors has a strict refrainment from eastern authors. That there's nuance within this I don't think matter to my statement - Nor is it a concern for the author I'm citing generally; a general claim can only be developed through generalized reference - Nuance is trivial in face of generality

[elder seal]

Not going to click that.

[shy summit]

It’s literally a pdf

[torpid dirge]

Philip foltez depicting a athenians political leader while at their golden period...

[mystic bay]

IP grabber

[elder seal]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)#Criticism You can read this though

might educate yourself a bit

[shy summit]

Hold up, how old are you?

[elder seal]

Doesn't matter. A claim is neither correct nor wrong on basis of age

[pastel barn]

hey you two. lesgo to vc I'm tired of reading so much

[shy summit]

Right, and I assume you have a degree in the social sciences?

[elder seal]

I'm going to the gym soon

[elder seal]

Yes

[shy summit]

Same, might I ask what your focus was?

[elder seal]

The prejudice within modern sciences is a bit more strict, in that we have structural national biasis. Specifically, people are biased towards their own nationality

[balmy folio]

Democracy is a form of governance in which
People are counted, not weighed."

[elder seal]

Stigmatization; discrimination and racism within contemporary society

My projects has specifically be focused on stigmatization

[shy summit]

I take it you don’t subscribe to the four quadrant pattern predicted by the Racial Position Model then?

[elder seal]

It isn't something we were taught. Keep in mind, different countries, universities etc., have different focuses in their curriculum; it isn't universal. Secondly, I'd not consider a model a religious artefact, it should be viewed with skepticism. For instance, Korea and Japan may bear fetishicism and a positive view, but China is going to bear a lot more negative perception and prescription comparatively differentiated through time

even though all 3 are within a confucian-buddhist cultural sphere

The model therefor isn't going to be correct by definition

[shy summit]

I take it you probably graduated around 2016 then

[elder seal]

No. This year

[shy summit]

Interesting

They never mentioned the four quadrant model of white perception?

[elder seal]

Never. We didn't even focus on intersectionality a lot, most of my own work though draw on it alongside Goffman's theory of stigmatization and the concept of 'othering'

From what i can see this is a very american concept - I'd probably not say this is going to be taught in europe

suggests that U.S. racial groups are categorized based on two dimensions: perceived inferiority and perceived cultural foreignness.
Right. So I think you're misapplying it here if you're trying to translate it towards the way west-and-east view each other; it's a strictly speaking perception based, domestic perception based model within american culture. Doubt we'd find it relevant in europe

[shy summit]

This goes a step beyond simple in-group and out-group perceptions.

And yes it is very much from the perspective of the American white conciousness

It’s more about the intersectionality of particular groups within the US

[elder seal]

Well, then it isn't really a critique of what i said. The way the west view Iran will not really be relevant towards it

[shy summit]

True, I apologize for not truly understanding your point before jumping the gun.

[mystic bay]

Now kiss

[elder seal]

In either case - You'll hardly find this taught in Europe. Intersectionality is chiefly relevant among people who specialize in it, we only have one seminar on it. But for instance, the way I doubt you've read Stuart Mill's work "multiculturalism" i doubt this would ever be found in our classes

[shy summit]

At least buy me dinner first

[elder seal]

I loved this essay of his tbh

[torpid dirge]

Aristotle doughter pythias?

[mystic bay]

Pardon?

[torpid dirge]

Do you know who was Aristotle doughter?

[mystic bay]

Do you mean daughter?

[torpid dirge]

Fck autocorrect shit yesssss

[mystic bay]

What about her?

[native fable]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-let-him-cook-cook-cooking-breaking-bad-gif-27522167

[muted pendant]

man I need help wm homework

[gaunt bronze]

TRUDEAU IS GONE

OMG YESSSSSSSSS

[muted pendant]

sup lousy

[gaunt bronze]

god bless canada 💖😍😍😍

[unique light]

God Bless Ireland 🇮🇪

https://tenor.com/view/ireland-flag-gif-europe-gif-27417994

[elder seal]

Omg, is that twink

[elder seal]

https://tenor.com/view/crab-rave-dancing-dancing-crab-gif-16543314

[native fable]

It's always been Twink. 🦊 👨‍🚀 🔫 👨‍🚀

[gaunt bronze]

& Ireland !

[gaunt bronze]

FINALLY OMGGGG

[elder seal]

https://apnews.com/live/justin-trudeau-canada-prime-minister

https://tenor.com/view/crab-rave-dancing-dancing-crab-gif-16543314

[gaunt bronze]

YESSSS

FINALLY OMG OMG OMG

https://tenor.com/view/clapping-clap-applause-standing-ovation-gif-15648815

[elder seal]

https://tenor.com/view/crabs-rave-crab-crab-rave-monstercat-gif-12505997

Canadians rn:

[native fable]

About time.

[gaunt bronze]

literally

Tomorrow everyone is going to talk abt it

[jaunty lark]

Hey guys I'd like to take a bit of an advise on how to fix my pronunciation for the TH and the B-P sounds

[prisma cipher]

Those, who care about Canada

[manic juniper]

C*nada

[mystic bay]

Can'tada

[pure valve]

[prisma garden]

Where's doctor house

[mystic bay]

This sounds like a bad joke

[prisma garden]

Gregory HOUSE that guy where is he

[mystic bay]

No need to shout

[dense agate]

https://tenor.com/view/house-md-dr-house-gregory-house-happy-dance-happy-gif-17229282564865713157

[prisma garden]

We used to talk in German together

I'm missing him

[manic juniper]

He was banned for Holocaust denial

[shy summit]

Okay someone fill me in on the canadian issue here. Why do ya’ll hate Trudy

[dapper laurel]

Starmer will be the next

[static pivot]

He's a loser

He destroyed relationships with various countries

[shy summit]

Seems smalltime compared to our dipshit in chief

[mystic bay]

We had all better watch our step

[gaunt bronze]

😛 👏🏻

[quasi needle]

weird tax decisions

that ruined it all for the working class

some unpopular liberal policies

[shy summit]

Aren’t liberal policies generally more supported by the wider populace?

From what I understand he just taxed the rich more and lowered taxes for the middle class

[open plover]

Agree

[balmy folio]

@desert nebula are you more leftist?

[feral river]

Dude, getting support does not equals to work

You see how is that trudeau passed that stupid bill whose taxes the canadians were supported by canadians

The real affect is, jobs go under the south border, canadians were fucked, and he feed bureaucratics under the slogan of climate change

Is that how liberal policies work ?

I think we will know better about liberalism after 2024, it’s not about some daydream, but real interest link in between politics and bureaucratics which has nothing to do with people’s interest

[thorny steeple]

@dapper laurel do you know someone into Chinese history? Apart from 652

[feral river]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_Gas_Pollution_Pricing_Act?wprov=sfti1

There’s no one need another bill that tax the population and feed the bureaucratics

[frozen cape]

Don't worry about it, people will figure out what you're trying to say from the context

[shy summit]

Uh mine… you do know that liberal polices are generally more popular with the public when expressed in racially neutral ways

[shy summit]

It doesn’t go to the beareucrats Mine. It goes to fund government projects

[shy summit]

People’s interest tend to lean liberal;

For example; streets firefighters, healthcare, police,

[shy summit]

Besides this had nothing to do about policy efficacy but policy support

WHAT FUCKING FUNNY is that Justin Trudeau is apparently not liked for his sympathies and relations with the CCP @feral river

And he apparently tried to use emergency powers to usurp the gov

[feral river]

I'm aware of that, full aware of that and people are fucked because of that.

[shy summit]

People are fucked for wanting public goods?