Searching for a "beginner" Astrophotography rig - is this one good as a starter?

[lavish barn]

Good evening friends,

I am thinking about buying a "real" Astrophotography rig. What I currently own:
- Seestar S50 (my first, since about 2 years)
- Dwarf3 (since 1 year)
- 10" Dobson (since 1.5 years for visual astronomy only)

I found a "budget rig" from the YouTuber Astrobackyard and I would like to have your opinion on it.
https://astrobackyard.com/budget-astrophotography-build/

my goal is between 2.500 - 4.500€ (if that is possible) I would appreciate a setup which is app-controlled preferably. My target are mainly DSO

[clear garnet]

https://telescopepartspicker.com/

[dark orchid]

Trevor Jones isnt a good guide honestly

He sucks at processing and is sponsored to shit.

For a budget rig its best to ask here or in r/astrophotography.

[lavish barn]

okay, good to know, thanks a lot! Do you have a beginner setup recommendation for me bud? 🙂

[dark orchid]

Honestly youre already out of the budget beginner rig range with your budget.

Youd need to pick what you exactly want more specifically

[lavish barn]

what would you say is the beginner rig range?

[clear garnet]

700-1500

[dark orchid]

Such as a preference in main target (Nebulae or Galaxy), the level of portability and ease of use

[dark orchid]

Budget Beginner Rig

There are still the more costly beginner rigs, payoff is a lot more freedom.

[clear garnet]

0-700

:]

[dark orchid]

thats not what i meant lol

i meant that 700 - 1500 is considered "budget" range

Theres still some REALLY good beginner rigs at that pricepoint that make things a lot easier.

[lavish barn]

so I would get a pretty "decent" rig if I would spent between 2000-3000€?

[dark orchid]

More than decent

You have a lot of money to play with

[clear garnet]

Jap

[lavish barn]

that is nice to hear. Seeing all these prices I assumed that I would be at the very low end with 3k 😄

[clear garnet]

But the first decision you have to make is wether you want a Reflector or Refractor telescope

[dark orchid]

Eh thats more dependant on the broader qeustions I posed

[dark orchid]

^

[clear garnet]

True

[dark orchid]

So, Galaxies or Nebulae? (Or both?)
How portable do you want it? (volume and weight)
How easy to use should it be?

[clear garnet]

But he already said DSO

[dark orchid]

Galaxies and Nebulae are both DSO lol

[clear garnet]

App controlled. So probably rather portable and easy to set up

[lavish barn]

I have a pretty dark garden in which I would mainly use it, so wait/portability does not really matter tbh.

[clear garnet]

Galaxies or/and nebulae

[lavish barn]

mostly nebulae, but galaxies would be great too, if possible

[clear garnet]

Ah

Something in range of 500-800mm fl then

[dark orchid]

What about ease of use?

(usually, some more difficult rigs are more efficient in the long run)

[clear garnet]

Like mono

[lavish barn]

I only used the Seestar/Dwarf so far. As easy as possible I guess. I dont want to manually do the star alignment if possible. Polar-alignment is no prob

[dark orchid]

Star Alignment is unneeded, since it automatically does so in the polar alignment proceedure.

[clear garnet]

Zwo then. Or touptek with their stellavita, but I don’t know how far they catched up with zwo yet

[dark orchid]

The stellavita has gone really far actually.

[lavish barn]

I like ZWO

heard this works great

[clear garnet]

Zwo is trash

[lavish barn]

lol 😄

[clear garnet]

Actually the worst and most expensive brand

[dark orchid]

ZWO sponsors the hell out of youtubers which is why its often hailed as the "greatest camera company for beginners"

[clear garnet]

Touptek/Player one/qhy are better and cheaper by a lot

[lavish barn]

ASIAIR looked easy to control, but that only works with ZWO cams I guess?

[dark orchid]

Yep.

[clear garnet]

Technically you could get a mini pc

[lavish barn]

oh they are blue, I like that 😄

[clear garnet]

Nina is not that hard to control

[dark orchid]

You can take a look at the stellavita though, often called an asiair copy. It recently got an app update so thats worth looking into. (the stellavita is very broadly compatible)

[dark orchid]

They also have cameras in forest green and magenta

[lavish barn]

Can I run Stellavita also on my phone/tab?

[clear garnet]

But if you want some very high quality cams in red style go for p1

[dark orchid]

Yep.

[dark orchid]

The highest quality usually comes from them and QHY

[clear garnet]

Yap

[dark orchid]

Would this be the budget youd want us to work with?

[clear garnet]

@lavish barn do you want a color or a mono setup?

[clear garnet]

You sound like ChatGPT

[lavish barn]

So, if you say I can get a decent starter rig, I'd like to go with 2500-3000 if that works

[dark orchid]

*Mono isnt difficult to use, its just a bit more tedious but the payoff is insane

[dark orchid]

We can definitely work with that

[lavish barn]

I dont know what the difference between mono or color setup means sorry

[clear garnet]

So want everything brand new?

[lavish barn]

yeah, I'd prefer brand new

[clear garnet]

Ok

[dark orchid]

So, there are two types of cameras - One Shot Colour (OSC) and Monochrome (Mono)

OSC Cameras are like the ones you find in the dwarf and seestar, as well as DSLR Cameras and your Phone Camera.

[clear garnet]

Are you familiar with colimation?

[dark orchid]

They have a special filter pattern, the "Bayer Matrix" overlaid on a sensor which technically is just a monochrome sensor, in order to form a colour image.

It comes with a loss: Lack of efficiency and resolution

[lavish barn]

a bit yeah. I collimated my 10" GSO Dobson a few times with a laser collimator and Cheshire

[dark orchid]

You fine with doing that on your DSO rig?

[clear garnet]

So that is not a problem?

[lavish barn]

I think I would be able to do that, yes

[clear garnet]

You have to keep in mind that you have to collect light for every filter though

[dark orchid]

With mono cameras, youd take multiple images with different filters (for instance 3 images with Red, then Green, then Blue) and merge them together to create a colour image without the pre-existing filter on OSC cameras.

[lavish barn]

is that the preferred way to take images with multiple filters? Is the outcome better that it makes it worth it?

[dark orchid]

So to wrap up: OSC are faster and less tedious to use for a coloured image. Mono Cameras take a bit of time to make a colour image with, however you substantially gain data (in ideal conditions the gain is 4x!!)

[clear garnet]

Bro you really sound like ChatGPT

[dark orchid]

For nebulae imaging its GIGANTIC.

For Galaxies its definitely noticeable

[dark orchid]

thats actually offensive 🗿

the amount of "mininerds" here that just copy what chatgpt says is insane

[lavish barn]

haha you guys 😄

[clear garnet]

The influence of chat bots like ChatGPT on the conversation style of us humans is actually remarkable

[dark orchid]

You have to admit, ChatGPT explains it good

but the content is just horrendously wrong

[dark orchid]

The gain is incredible.

[lavish barn]

holy moly

[clear garnet]

Mhe. If you tell ChatGPT that it’s wrong although it’s true what it is saying it still believes your word and tries to correct itself in some weird way

[lavish barn]

does the ratio of each color need to be the same all the time e.g. 30min/30min/30min?

[dark orchid]

yeah thats true but thats not what im doing am I

[dark orchid]

They dont.

youd want to aim for it to be equal but you arent forced to do so, since when youre processing you can manually adjust the "brightness" of each channel

[clear garnet]

Also you mostly collect L too.

[dark orchid]

Oh yeah, Luminance. Its shooting with just a UV/IR Cut filter in order to get all "colours" into one mono image to decrease noise.

Fairly simple once you understand it lol

[clear garnet]

You want to replace the colors brightness with the stronger and less noisy brightness of your L filter

But that also involves more time processing your images

[dark orchid]

and you arent required to that starting off anyway as well.

[lavish barn]

so would you guys mind giving me a short guying list for the touptek, a cam, mount and basically everything that I need?

[dark orchid]

no problem. Are you in the EU?

[clear garnet]

So. Now
Most important questions for us to help you:
do you want a Newtonian style telescope.
That involves dobsonians and obv. Newtons?
Do you want to directly go mono?
Upsides are better image quality.
Downside is that it is more expensive and time expensive.
Also, do you want a harmonic drive mount or a German equatorial?

~ChatGPT:
do you want me to create a checklist for you? 😊

[lavish barn]

I am really appreciating your opinion and expertise. So I would prefer the easier way obivously, which is not Mono. But if you say the image quality is really not worth it, I would go with the mono obviously. I am not sure about newtons tbh. I don't love collimating but it is a necessary evil I guess. I would take what you recommend.
Not sure about the difference between harmonic drive mount or german eq

I live in germany if that matters

[clear garnet]

So I would just throw in the MLAstro Sal-33 Mount. A skywatcher 200quattro 10-s. Touptek2600C. Touptek Off axis guider with toupek guide cam. And a filter drawer. For control a Stellavita or mini pc and power distribution that Svbony thingy if needed

Not sure if the mount can handle that much weight though

[dark orchid]

The differences is in the design/flaws.

German Equatorials:
Generally Heavier
Suffer from Backlash (gap between the gears which youll have to adjust)
Have a highly simple (and therefore highly correctable) period error
Requires Counterbalancing.

Harmonic Drive:
Very Light for their Payload
No Backlash
Highly Complicated Periodic Error, guiding required.
Does not require counterbalancing until a certain weight.

[dark orchid]

Yeah no.

The 200 Quattro absolutely needs upgrades which will suck up money beyond the budget and dont fall into "easy to use" at all

And 800mm is a lot for "mainly nebulae" too.

[clear garnet]

Yeah I know. But the 10-s is very good

[clear garnet]

Not really

[dark orchid]

the 10s is 10''

theres not a 200p Quattro 10-S

[clear garnet]

Sure?

[dark orchid]

absolutely sure

[clear garnet]

But there is a difference to ordinary(?)

[dark orchid]

Theres an 8-S maybe

[dark orchid]

Dual speed focuser is about the only thing I can tell

[clear garnet]

Otherwise a Lacerta 800/200

[dark orchid]

they all need upgrades which go beyond budget, their collimation isnt very stable either.

[clear garnet]

If you think

The just get an Esprit100ed/edx

[lavish barn]

if you have an idea without / with less collimation that would be ideal I guess 😄

[dark orchid]

I know you wanted to avoid used, but...
https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/vixen-spiegelteleskop-r200ss-200-800mm-f4-newton/3321725155-242-1941

[clear garnet]

Refractor telescope then

[dark orchid]

This is a great deal on basically the best consumer grade 8'' F/4 Newtonian to date: It does not fall out of collimation if handled properly, almost like a refractor

And the one flaw it has, the focuser, has already been upgraded.

Its a dream telescope of mine, if you are willing to get this I am sure you will be very happy for a long time.

[clear garnet]

The vixen?

[dark orchid]

Yes. The R-200SS is so nice

[dark orchid]

Also, this comes with a coma corrector

[lavish barn]

but is is only to pickup and it is unfortunately 300km away from where I live :<

[dark orchid]

Ahh, yikes.

[lavish barn]

would there be an option for a refractor to shoot good pictues with? (to avoid collimation 😊 )

[dark orchid]

Oh yeah of course there would be, they just are a bit more pricy and less efficient in light gathering. But yeah, payoff is no collimation needed.

[clear garnet]

Similar quality as the Skywatcher 10s

[dark orchid]

no.

Sorry but straight up no

[lavish barn]

I think I would love a refractor more then tbh

[clear garnet]

I just searched for images and they are quite similar to the 10s

[clear garnet]

Esprit100edx

[dark orchid]

The mirror cell is rock solid, so much so that collimation usually is only done by vixen once and then never again.
Optically yeah, their average strehl is the same.
The spider? Really good, doesnt need replacement at all.

[dark orchid]

also thats a lot more aperture, the 10s

and people upgrade it

[clear garnet]

You don’t have to collimate it (mostly). It’s focal length is right in the sweet spot for nebulae and some galaxies and its quality is amazing

[clear garnet]

Fair enough

[dark orchid]

if only the esprit 80edx was good

[clear garnet]

It isn’t?

[dark orchid]

it suffers from Spherochromatism

[clear garnet]

Which is?

[dark orchid]

basically a combination of chromatic abberation and spherical abberation

[clear garnet]

Bruh

[dark orchid]

its the phenomena where because of chromatic abberation, the correction of spherical abberation fails in a specific wavelength area

[lavish barn]

😄

[clear garnet]

Bad glass quality?

[dark orchid]

nope the glass is fine

[clear garnet]

:{

[dark orchid]

its cause is of shaping and improper gapping

who thought a cheap budget china scope isnt optically perfect lmaoo

[dark orchid]

also theres an issue here if we replace the quattro with an Askar APO 103 / Esprit 100ed + 2600
it blows up to over 3000 if you calculate optical accesories and mount.

[clear garnet]

My suggestion:
esprit100edx ≈ 1500€
MLAstro Sal-33 ≈ 1200€
Touptek533C ≈ 750€
I don’t know which motorfocus is best so roughly 170€
Off-axis guider ≈ 140€
Guiding camera ≈ 120€
Filter drawer ≈ 50€
Filter ≈ 50€
Total: 3980€

Which is at the upper limit of your first statet price range

[dark orchid]

Also you need a field flattener for the esprit

[clear garnet]

Ah rip

[dark orchid]

and a duoband filter for nebulae

[clear garnet]

I also forgot control and power management

[dark orchid]

yep

[clear garnet]

Not required

[dark orchid]

this doesnt work out

[lavish barn]

now I am confused haha 😄

[dark orchid]

youd definitely want one especially if you dont live in the middle of nowhere

[clear garnet]

But he does

[lavish barn]

I live in the middle of nowhere basically

[clear garnet]

:)

[clear garnet]

May I ask in which country?

[lavish barn]

countryside, only a few houses and farm buildings around, next to a huge field and forest

[dark orchid]

...
fair enough

[lavish barn]

Germany

[clear garnet]

Bruh

[dark orchid]

he already said this though

[clear garnet]

Warum reden wir dann auf Englisch

[lavish barn]

weiß ich doch nicht 😄

[dark orchid]

ist doch wurscht

[clear garnet]

XD

[lavish barn]

haha

[dark orchid]

und dann können auch nicht-deutsche mitreden

[clear garnet]

Ja, stimmt schon. Macht schon Sinn, wenn jemand neu in Chat dazu kommt will er ja wissen wie viel Wissen schon kommuniziert wurde

Und wo ist bei dir mitten im nirgendwo?

Ich kenn kein Fleckchen in Deutschland der so wirklich dunkel ist

Nichts besser als Bortle 3-4

[dark orchid]

Wo in Deutschland denn? Nord oder Südlich?

[lavish barn]

Richtung Hannover

[clear garnet]

Mhe

Dann macht Duo Filter schon Sinn

[dark orchid]

Woher kriegst du die 750€ für die 533?

Es sind 637,13€

[lavish barn]

kurz mein Dwarf reinholen brb

[dark orchid]

Steuer und Shipping kommen keine Kosten auf, vielleicht konversionsgebühr aber nicht mit 120€

[clear garnet]

Hö. Ok

[dark orchid]

USD zu EUR konversion mein Freund

0.8 und ein paar zerquetschte, macht schon einen Unterschied.

Die SAL ist dann auch noch 1.061 EUR

My upgraded suggestion:
(used) Askar Apo120 + 1x + 0.8x ≈ 1600€ or less
MLAstro Sal-33 ≈ 1061€
Touptek533C ≈ 638€
ToupTek AAF 170€
Off-axis guider ≈ 127€
Guiding camera GPCMOS02000KMA ≈ 110€
Filter drawer ≈ 50€
Filter ≈ 50€ + 160€
Total: 3980€ - All included that would be required.

https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/askar-120apo-120mm-840mm-f-7-x1-0-flattener-x0-8-reducer/3328524437-245-7707

Shipping is possible and the extra 20mm does a ton. it also comes with a flattener and a flattener reducer.

@lavish barn If youd like one thats cheaper thats possible as well, but this would be best case scenario: Everything is complete, ready to go and provides really good imaging quality. I would have no problem to put together another rig tomorrow at a lower price at the expense of efficiency (?)

(english so other people can still give their comments)

[lavish barn]

that looks like a really good recommendation to me. I will have a look if I could buy all the components. Thanks a lot already for all the time and effort guys. Really appreciated!

Yeah, if you could put a secondary recommendation (must not be tomorrow) that would be nice, though. Just to have an alternative to look at. Thanks so much! ❤️

[clear garnet]

Why askar?

Why not esprit

[dark orchid]

A lot more expensive and no used deals of that gravity on atm

The Askar Apo series is really good as well, sure it’s no esprit but it comes closer than you’d think

[clear garnet]

The edx is actually cheaper lol

[dark orchid]

The 120edx with flattener and reducer flattener is cheaper?

[clear garnet]

100

[dark orchid]

Not even the 100edx is cheaper with flattener without extra reducing flattener lol

[dark orchid]

For sure.

[clear garnet]

It is

I just checked

[lavish barn]

oh and if you could also put links to the shops to it if possible. I googled a few of the components and I am always not 100% sure I got the exact correct component / the best shop to buy it from

[clear garnet]

Not cheaper but at least the same

https://www.teleskop-spezialisten.de/shop/Teleskope/ED-APO/100-115mm/SkyWatcher-Esprit-100EDX::7422.html

https://lacerta-optics.com/Flat-Esprit100_Flattener-mit-M48-Gewinde-Kameraseitig-fur-100-550

ask Hugo_astro about the edx. He’s got one

[dark orchid]

Those extra 20mm does a lot too yk

• you can haggle the price down

[clear garnet]

Mhm

[dark orchid]

Esprits are good, yes, but so are the APO series scopes, and you gain extra aperture in this case.

[clear garnet]

What fl does the reduced askar have?

[dark orchid]

Around 650

A bit more

[clear garnet]

That’s good

Maybe a bit too much

[lavish barn]

I think it is actually a really good price compared to buying a new one, right? Only thing which I am not sure about is the "dirt" on the fifth picture which shows the lense?!

https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/askar-120apo-120mm-840mm-f-7-x1-0-flattener-x0-8-reducer/3328524437-245-7707

[dark orchid]

Regular dry dust, probably won’t even show up in images.

And yes it’s a good price for what it is.

[lavish barn]

@dark orchid @clear garnet Good evening guys, can you send a 2nd cheaper rig once you have some time, so I can decide between the 2? 🙂

[dark orchid]

Ill have one tomorrow, especially considering that the 120apo deal is now gone too.

[lavish barn]

yep, I saw that, too :<

[clear garnet]

Replace the Askar with the Askar Apo 103

https://www.astroshop.de/teleskope/askar-apochromatischer-refraktor-ap-103-700-triplet-ota/p,85520

[lavish barn]

hey bud,

did you have time to build a more "budget" rig for comparison? 🙂

[dark orchid]

oh i completely forgot yes i can

[lavish barn]

I am still surprised about how fast you reply. 😄

must not be this evening. But if you put it together, can you also send the links? I w ant to prevent buying the wrong pieces by accident

[dark orchid]

i got a tab of discord open almost the entire time at this hour

[dark orchid]

Sure.

[clear garnet]

Do you still want a high focallength ?

[lavish barn]

@clear garnet I think there are benefits to it right? so why not 🙂

or why do you ask?

[clear garnet]

Since you asked for a more budget rig… it’s very hard to find a high quality refractor scope for a low price

That’s why a reflector might fit your expectations better

@lavish barn

[lavish barn]

I see. Then I'd better stick with a refractof, I am not suped hyped for collimating every time 😄

[clear garnet]

But as I said. There aren’t a lot cheap high quality refractors

[lavish barn]

ok then I'd be fine with the one we discussed before I guess

[clear garnet]

Only if you are super sure about the fl you want

[dark orchid]

Askar 91f - 1099€
https://www.astroshop.de/teleskope/askar-apochromatischer-refraktor-ap-91-609-91f-flatfield/p,90697

EQ5 - 395€
https://www.astroshop.de/parallaktisch-ohne-goto/skywatcher-montierung-eq5/p,16081
Onstep (motor for EQ5) - 172€
https://www.ebay.de/itm/197262117558?srsltid=AfmBOorO8tZH6YgloJ2PwrpRxcWCtX6obtWZdbr8xOveImpqpwFSR7tA

ATR585M (First Kit, comes with Stellavita MiniPC) - 1084€
https://www.touptekastro.com/en-eu/products/atr585m

• 2750€

A few notes....

In order to give you a rig according to your specifications, you will need to put in more money than youd like.
A reflector, while giving more hassle, would theoretically allow you to knock off around 500 bucks.

Secondly, you can swap the camera out with a colour 585 (such as the Uranus-C) for the sake of simplicity and saving money, though I'd call this ideal. (we also went over mono vs colour, though if you want a recap I can give you one)

A guiding setup is missing but not a full on requirement for this setup. One on top would cost around 200 bucks more, but it 100% is an upgrade you can do at a later date.

And no, I dont think this is very "budget", just a considerable amount cheaper than the first rig and it is in your set budget range.

You will unfortunately have to pick your battles.

Though id personally call this a really good rig,

[lavish barn]

thanks a lot!

[dark orchid]

And as stated, you can switch out the ATR585M kit for a colour camera of your choice, should you not want mono. 🙃

[lavish barn]

Honestly, I think I might just go for the first rig you recommended. I don't want to swap out stuff after a few months and I hope the first rig is a good invest

that one:

My upgraded suggestion:
(used) Askar Apo120 + 1x + 0.8x ≈ 1600€ or less
MLAstro Sal-33 ≈ 1061€
Touptek533C ≈ 638€
ToupTek AAF 170€
Off-axis guider ≈ 127€
Guiding camera GPCMOS02000KMA ≈ 110€
Filter drawer ≈ 50€
Filter ≈ 50€ + 160€
Total: 3980€ - All included that would be required.

I just have to figure out where to buy all this stuff 🙂

[dark orchid]

Well there would be nothing really to "swap out", you can just add things to make life easier and decide what you want from the get go.

[dark orchid]

Issue would be, youd need a different main telescope since that deal is gone now

[lavish barn]

yeah, how about the Askar AP103/700 Triplet OTA?

[dark orchid]

Would need a field flattener on top which adds cost but yeah its quite decent.

Though depending from where you get it, an Esprit might cost the same and will perform better.

[lavish barn]

should I go for the SkyWatcher Esprit-100EDX?

[clear garnet]

Yes

@full hazel

[lavish barn]

okay thanks. I will put together a buying list from all the shops for a last confirmation of you guys then.Because I saw the MLAstro Sal-33 seems hard to get. Would there be a replacement for that one?

[full hazel]

No issues with the esprit 100edx

[clear garnet]

Thanks :)

[full hazel]

It suffers from a tiny bit of red bloat (CA) but otherwise its built solidly and provides sharp images.

[clear garnet]

The good thing with this mount is that it gets some updates in the future. Also this mount is one of the best harmonic drive mounts there are in the market right now l

According to MLAstro there will be a automatic Polar alignment system you can additionally buy to the MLAstro mount

Otherwise you can get a Heq5 pro of course

[lavish barn]

but I only find it on "Pre-order"

okay

[clear garnet]

There some used ones for sale right now

[clear garnet]

Ah :/

@lavish barn are you in the Astro WhatsApp channel?

[lavish barn]

nope

I am not aware of it

[clear garnet]

Someone is selling their eq5 there

[lavish barn]

how do I find this WA channel?

So my buying list would be:
• Telescope: https://www.astroshop.de/teleskope/askar-apochromatischer-refraktor-ap-103-700-triplet-ota/p,85520 1.299€
• Mount: https://www.astroshop.de/parallaktisch-ohne-goto/skywatcher-montierung-eq5/p,16081 395€
• Guiding camera GPCMOS02000KMA https://www.teleskop-express.de/de/ts-zubehoer-31/kameras-ungekuehlt-210/ts290usb2m-17903 - 179€

I can’t find where to buy the below?
• Filter drawer ≈ 50€ Filter ≈ 50€ + 160€ - can’t find it
• Touptek533C - can’t find it
• AAF 170€ Off-axis guider - can’t find it

Is there anything else I'd need?

[clear garnet]

I actually don’t know how I can share the group via link

[lavish barn]

np I'll buy it new

don't want to bother with something broken or issues tbh

[clear garnet]

This whole rig is for sale

[lavish barn]

thanks but I think I want something new

[clear garnet]

Your decision 👍

[lavish barn]

can you help me on how to find the below and let me know if there is anything else I'd need to buy to get started?
• Telescope: https://www.astroshop.de/teleskope/askar-apochromatischer-refraktor-ap-103-700-triplet-ota/p,85520 1.299€
• Mount: https://www.astroshop.de/parallaktisch-ohne-goto/skywatcher-montierung-eq5/p,16081 395€
• Guiding camera GPCMOS02000KMA https://www.teleskop-express.de/de/ts-zubehoer-31/kameras-ungekuehlt-210/ts290usb2m-17903 - 179€

• Filter drawer ≈ 50€ Filter ≈ 50€ + 160€ - can’t find it
• Touptek533C - can’t find it
• AAF 170€ Off-axis guider - can’t find it

[clear garnet]

Are you sure you want the Askar and not the esprit?

[lavish barn]

oops my bad, yeah I'd go with the esprit!

[clear garnet]

The mount has no go-to system here. The official system costs ≈950€. You prob have to get the onstep kit then

[lavish barn]

oh that is bad, I'd like to have a goto 😄

do you have an alternative to the EQ5?

[clear garnet]

(Which costs way less but you have to install it yourself)

[lavish barn]

Ah I see!

[clear garnet]

https://www.terransindustry.com/de-de/products/skywatcher-eq5?variant=42553929826497

[lavish barn]

Sold out 😄

[clear garnet]

Ah, bruh

[lavish barn]

I am sorry for you to spend so much time on this 😕

[clear garnet]

All good

I’m actually happy to somehow build my own dream rig

[lavish barn]

😄 haha

[clear garnet]

I don’t know any cheaper alternative as mount

[lavish barn]

• Telescope: https://www.teleskop-spezialisten.de/shop/Teleskope/ED-APO/100-115mm/SkyWatcher-Esprit-100EDX::7422.html 1.389€
• Mount: EQ5 ProSynScanGoto is based on 3-star alignment. I had such a bad experience with 3SA with my Newtonian and a Push-To box from Astroshop, it was extremely inacurrate 😕
• Guiding camera GPCMOS02000KMA https://www.teleskop-express.de/de/ts-zubehoer-31/kameras-ungekuehlt-210/ts290usb2m-17903 - 179€

Where do I buy the below?
• Filter drawer
• Touptek533C
• AAF 170€ Off-axis guider

Do I need anything else like flatteners for example?

[full hazel]

You are going to want a flattener for the esprit

Also an eq5 for an Esprit? Hm

[dark orchid]

Noooo it too???

[lavish barn]

I would love to take ANY other Mount that does not req 3 star alignment tbh 😄

[dark orchid]

The EQ5 Prosynscan isnt good.

Rather, just get a normal manual EQ5 and put the OnStep motor kit on it.

[full hazel]

All esprits, even the "original" ones suffer from it

[dark orchid]

i thought only the esprit 80 had spherochromatism

not all of them

[clear garnet]

At the moment that’s only the 3d printed mount and Sal-33 iirc

[full hazel]

Even Zac's WO 120FLT suffers from it

But its tiny

[clear garnet]

But pa is mostly not very time consuming. I wouldn’t go after pa or no pa

[dark orchid]

Thats odd

I thought, if at all, these telescopes had a teeny tiny bit of CA

not the weird hybrid of spherical and chromatic aberration

[lavish barn]

wait, I only need to do the polar alignment? I thought I would need to do a 3-star-alignment as well?

[dark orchid]

No, thats for visual only.

[full hazel]

IIRC from broken biscuits convos its very very small

[lavish barn]

ohhh okay then that is great!

[dark orchid]

It does that automatically in-software using platesolving and thereby actively syncs the mount to the sky

[full hazel]

Sorry for being off topic, last message on it

@lavish barn get something like an HEQ-5 and above. Dont buy an asiair, stick to NINA. Polar alignment is so easy my blind grandma could do it in 5 minutes

[lavish barn]

yeah polar alignment is fine. I do this all the time with my Dwarf3. I thought I'd need to do a 3-star-alignment all the time I want to capture 😄

• Telescope: https://www.teleskop-spezialisten.de/shop/Teleskope/ED-APO/100-115mm/SkyWatcher-Esprit-100EDX::7422.html 1.389€
• Mount: https://www.astroshop.de/parallaktisch-mit-goto/skywatcher-montierung-eq5-pro-synscan-goto/p,11661 989€
• Guiding camera GPCMOS02000KMA https://www.teleskop-express.de/de/ts-zubehoer-31/kameras-ungekuehlt-210/ts290usb2m-17903 - 179€

Where do I find the rest? / Is there anything else I need to start?
• Filter drawer
• Touptek533C
• AAF 170€ Off-axis guider

[dark orchid]

I disadvise getting the EQ5 Synscan, its really not ideal.

[lavish barn]

which instead?

[dark orchid]

At least the onstepped solution I gave before

[lavish barn]

ok

[dark orchid]

EQ5 - 395€
https://www.astroshop.de/parallaktisch-ohne-goto/skywatcher-montierung-eq5/p,16081
Onstep (motor for EQ5) - 172€
https://www.ebay.de/itm/197262117558?srsltid=AfmBOorO8tZH6YgloJ2PwrpRxcWCtX6obtWZdbr8xOveImpqpwFSR7tA

The main difference here is the belt-driven and better motors which makes a huge difference

[lavish barn]

but it looks intimidating to assemble

[dark orchid]

Oh assembling the manual mount itself is the real hassle

when i had one i only had a spanish tutorial to use - i dont speak spanish

the motor was the easiest part 🗿

[lavish barn]

oof

[dark orchid]

you can look at the official tutorial by terrans on yt

its pretty straightforward

[dark orchid]

Though hugo has a point here..

I would go for a used HEQ5 or Ragdoll 17 if you are willing to spend that much.

[full hazel]

Yeah i was gonna say again, I wouldnt go lower than a HEQ5

[dark orchid]

With guiding its likely fine

but for the sake of less trouble, especially on windy nights, a stronger mount would do nicely.

[lavish barn]

what about this one?
https://www.astroshop.de/parallaktisch-mit-goto/skywatcher-montierung-eq-al55i-pro-synscan-goto-wifi/p,81066

[dark orchid]

Worse than the Onstepped EQ5

Skywatcher doesnt really make any consistenlty good tracking mounts under the HEQ5 😭

[full hazel]

In astrophotography would find pretty quickly that buying gear that youll grow out fast is very annoying. My advice is to save up a lil bit more so you can afford at least an heq5. They go for 700-900 used

Ive seen them lower

[lavish barn]

Thanks!

[clear garnet]

Do you want me to ask how much the used Heq5 costs? @lavish barn

[lavish barn]

yes, pls 🙂

[clear garnet]

https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/astrofotografie-komplett-set-skywatcher-heq5-pro-belt-mod/3207461552-242-7436

Here is someone selling a quite identical setup

[clear garnet]

He asks how much you want to pay

[lavish barn]

I really have no idea, as I am overwhelmed by all the products. I am still not determined, which setup to go now, also considering the latest from Kleinanzeigen you just sent

[clear garnet]

@full hazel sry for ping. How much do you think is a fair price for a 2 year old HEQ5 Pro?

700-900€?

If 2/3 of new Price it would be 850€

@lavish barn

[lavish barn]

thanks, will consider that

[full hazel]

always low ball it lol

ask 700

[clear garnet]

bruh

Haha

[full hazel]

while being respectful ofc

[clear garnet]

How?

[clear garnet]

Is that a price you would be willing to pay?

[full hazel]

a quick look in a local second hand market and they are going for 750-850

[clear garnet]

I am going to ask 750

;)

[lavish barn]

thanks. Again, I am not comitted to a specific setup yet. So this would just be a "nice to know" for me at this point 🙂

[clear garnet]

Yup

I will pass that on

[dark orchid]

https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/ioptron-cem-26-montierung-top-/3308938108-242-1791

Beautiful, beauuuutiful HEQ5-Grade mount.

Youll need a tripod but